Obama Promises $7000 Plug-in Tax Credit, $3 Billion to US Automakers, and Mentions the Volt by Name
Two weeks ago when John McCain was given a personal tour of the Chevy Volt by top GM executives and I covered it here, I received criticism of displaying political bias.
Today Barack Obama gave a speech in Lansing Michigan. He set a plug-in car production goal for America of “1 million 150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrids on our roads within six years.”
He also vowed $4 billion in government loans to automakers to help them build plug-ins and offered support to a $7000 tax credit to consumers for buying them.
He mentioned his belief that Michigan would be the site where this new industry would explode from and said this about the Volt:
“I believe we are entering a similar era of expanding consumer choices, from higher mileage cars, to new electric entrants like GM’s Volt, to flex fuel cars and trucks powered by biofuels and driven by Michigan innovation.”
My message isn’t about which political candidate to vote for, but more importantly the fact that both of them are aware of the importance of the Chevy Volt and speaking about it by name. We have come a long way from January 2007 when the concept was first announced.
Source (Detroit News)
Popularity: 5%
Related posts:
- GM Requests $7000 Tax Credit to Chevy Volt buyers, McCain Offers GM $5000
- One Step Towards a Cheaper Volt: Senate Passes Plug-in Tax Credit
- Along With Wall Street Bailout, Plug-in Car Tax Credit is Passed: Chevy Volt Now $7500 Less
- BUSH: U.S. Must Get Off Oil, and Mentions the Chevy Volt (sort of)
- John McCain to Visit Chevy Volt on Friday
(13 votes, average: 4.54 out of 5) 
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136 Responses to “Obama Promises $7000 Plug-in Tax Credit, $3 Billion to US Automakers, and Mentions the Volt by Name”
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August 4th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
The promising is starting. You know what you can do with a politician’s promise and a dollar bill, don’t you. Answer: “not much”.
Now it is McCain’s turn.
August 4th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
$7000 tax credit!!!
Wow, that’s one hell of an incentive.
Edit: If elected president, can he get Congress to pass that bill? That is not something they will take lightly.
August 4th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Well, I just hope this isn’t empty promises.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
#1 - NRiley:
You mean bribing, not promising, don’t you?
August 4th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
1. N Riley
Agree on politician promises.
On it now being McCain’s turn - and believe me - not choosing sides here - he had an opportunity during / shortly after his GM visit. Anything he comes up with now is a follow-the-leader move on that issue.
What is sad? $4 billion in aid to US automakers, even if it became a reality post-election, may not be enough to keep them alive long enough to make a difference. Hope I’m wrong.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I’m glad that the Volt is getting so much exposure, I think it will be very good for the US and the world.
A link to view their voting record on Volt-related topics:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/26/gm-ceo-misquoted-about-chevy-volt-price-and-timing-want-it-for-less-get-tax-credits-passed/
Obama in the “Yea” column and McCain in the “Not Voting” column. I don’t know what else was in this bill, nor am I aware of McCain’s stated reason for not voting. I’d be interested if anyone has additional information.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
# 4 - Bernie
Well, of course it’s a bribe. You’ve nailed it.
O’Bama wants to paint himself as the “Green Candidate’.
This way he’ll appeal to all the suckers out there - a.k.a. Flag Burning Liberal Retards.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
#4 Bernie
You are closer calling it bribing. I would probably be a little more honest if I called it vote buying. All politicians do it and it is not necessarily a bad thing, in this case. We need incentives for the automakers to make efficient vehicles (electric, of course) and we need incentives to help consumers afford them and help make the decision easier. Whether it is Obama’s promises or McCain’s promises, it doesn’t mean they will keep their word or that congress will go along with it. Plus the fact that we have a congress with their heads up their asses doesn’t help matters, at all.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
well for our nations sake i hope they back it up with actions .
go volt!
August 4th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
This is great.
What isn’t so great is that, instead of signing on, the McCain campaign’s immediate response was to continue with its approach of attacking anything Obama says. If he says it they attack it, no matter what it is. He says black, they say white. If he says white they say black. Blah blah blah ….
I think they are making a big mistake. Going completely negative is going to backfire this time around. I know I am sick of all the negative stuff and I don’t think I’m alone. I want someone who can do something positive and get something accomplished, not someone who can posture.
The ability to cut deals, compromise, and get things done is very presidential. Standing on the sidelines and sqawking doesn’t make me interested in voting for you. Finding points of agreement so we can move forward does.
There is a lot to like in the Obama program, along with some junk and political pandering (the tax on oil companies to fund tax rebates). But it builds on the “New Era” bill framework fashioned by the Gang of Ten, which is a heck of a lot better than the logjam we’ve had up till now — a logjam guaranteed not to get anything done.
Obama has indicated he’ll compromise on offshore drilling to move foward. Now it’s McCain’s chance ot show his stuff. Can he move us forward or can he only prolong the paralysis in Washington?
August 4th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Lyle said: “My message isn’t about which political candidate to vote for, but more importantly the fact that both of them are aware of the importance of the Chevy Volt and speaking about it by name. We have come a long way from January 2007 when the concept was first announced.”
Exactly! The more the Volt is mentioned by politicians, by the media, by anyone in the public eye, the more likely it is to make it to market & survive once it’s there. Go Volt!
August 4th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Dave99 #6
Possibly out of town when vote came up. Don’t know for sure. Doesn’t mean much except if he was out of town he has still missed several opportunities that may not come back around to him. McCain will support incentives, he said so several times and was quoted on this site, I believe. Both candidates will support them. Don’t want to imply Obama will not. He is a politician above all else and apparently a “smart” one, too.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Consider me bought. Go Obama!
August 4th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“Friends,Romans and Countrymen, lend me your ears”
-Stan Freeberg.
That is what came to mind when I looked at the photograph.probably due to too much coffee.
How do they dare promise such blatently unachieveable goals.
Sounds great though, he gets my vote.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
EV’s are becoming more public every day. Looks good for GM if the cost does not soar too high. Tax credit is nice but temporary and both parties are claiming they can provide them. I hope the economy provides enough interested people with the income to buy as many as can be made. Auto evoloution is fun to watch and even better to participate in…bring it on!!
August 4th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
My preference would for less government. I do not really like the “nanny state” we seem to be rushing headlong into. I prefer a government that protected our borders, defined tariffs and collected them and only got involved with the citizens at election time. But, that type of government went out the window in about 1790.
Private enterprise could do much of the work done now by government at a much less cost, if you could trust them to not turn things against us. But, can we really trust our own government not to do the same?
So, I say since we have got to have this government involved in every matter, then let’s get the incentives while we can. The Japanese, Korean and European governments are certainly going to help their automakers and citizens afford electric vehicles. I would like to make sure the government loans can only go to American auto companies and the tax rebates be primarily for American cars and trucks. Maybe offer some rebate on a non-American vehicle, but at a much reduced rate. I don’t know. What do you think?
August 4th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
#13 Belloc
“Consider me bought. Go Obama!”
Were you “bought” before this announcement or after? You don’t have to answer, but if before, then it does have as much impact.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
In fairness, isn’t Obama more of the follower on this issue? My impression is that McCain’s similar plan, covered a couple weeks ago on this site and mentioned by Lyle above, counts as first out the door. In any case, I’m glad to see some more support for the Volt.
Lyle - My view is that you should freely exercise your right to delete insulting, immature, or overly-political posts. They are detrimental to the generally civilized atmosphere on this site. As the election season heats up (and more internet users find this site) you will have to be more and more vigilant to keep things under control. Just a friendly word of advice from someone who has seen the best and worst of internet forums.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
They will say anything to get elected, and then the new President will have to deal with a completely useless Congress.
$7000 credit? Like EEStor, I will believe it when I see it.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Tax credits may have the effect of just raising the price of the vehicle by the amount of the tax credit. So, the automaker makes extra profit and you get a vehicle for the same price you may have gotten it without the credit. With no credit, the automaker may be forced to sell it at a lower price, thus giving you the same vehicle at about the same price without the government interference.
But, if offered, I will claim mine just like everyone else.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Looks like the price of the Volt just went to $47,000.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I hope Obama keeps his promises.
Right now G.W. is keeping his, has anyone seen how fast oil is dropping.
Thank you President Bush !
My wallet feels a little heavier today.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Lyle, maybe you should put in moderation any comment that contains Obama or McCain or congress and other words to be determined. We really do need to stay off the political subject on this site. It is too important for us to mess it up. It is really hard to discuss some subjects, like this one, with out mentioning the candiatates’ name. But we should try to stay away from politics as much as possible.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
1 N Riley - Agreed that there needs to be an “incentive” to create a market for the Volt and other electric, hybrid, natural gas and similar vehicles.
This could be done far more effectively, relative to tax credits, by announcing a steady increase in the price of petroleum-based transportation fuels. An increase in the Federal gas tax of $1/gallon would raise enough money to cover the cost of deploying U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf. Add a bit more to cover infrastructure costs, if you like. And, put a floor on petrol at $4/gallon and diesel at $5/gallon.
Done over time, the market and consumers would use oil more efficiently. The Volt and other products would do well in this environment, as it would add certainty to what fuel costs would be, and with fewer marketplace distortions than another “gubment” program would bring.
BTW, I’m not passing judgment on the presence of US troops, ships and aircraft in the Middle East. I’m simply suggesting that they need to be paid for, like the deployment or not.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
“He set a plug-in car production goal for America of “1 million 150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrids on our roads within six years.”
Oh, good. Now I can sleep better at night.
Where the heck did he pull this 150 mpg number from? What does it mean? We are back to the issue of mpg, for a hybrid.
McCains response: I will give $8,000 and $4 billion. (then the rhetoric continues…)
I do not want the govt. involved in this. The market place will find the right price for the right method for the right time. This is NO rebate, this is OUR money. I want to chose how I spend it.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Unfortunately, Politics is going to play a very important role in the adoption of EVs in the country. The government can have a great influence on how rapidly the move to electric transportation happens. So politicians are just as big a deal as the car makers, maybe even more so. Notice how every car vendor is sucking up to them ’cause they know how to play the game.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
#22 POTUS
I agree. His lifting the off-shore drilling ban helped. Regardless of what the naysayers say.
Now, congress needs to do its job and lift their bans on off-shore and the shale oil out west.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
JEC #25 says,
I do not want the govt. involved in this. The market place will find the right price for the right method for the right time. This is NO rebate, this is OUR money. I want to chose how I spend it.
—–
Huh? If the government gets involved by giving tax credits, then we are getting back OUR money. What did you mean?
BTW, I am also curious where the 150 MPG came from.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
I need another stimulus check for a down payment on my future Volt.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
#28 Rashiid
I think the 150 mpg must be coming from what some Prius owners are claiming for their converted plug-ins. Or maybe he just pulled the number out of the air because it sounded good.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
N. Riley. #27, says
His lifting the off-shore drilling ban helped. Regardless of what the naysayers say.
Yup. He is a complete a**. Drilling for more oil is incredibly stupid. While we are paying the high price, let’s just keep it that way and get completely off of transportation oil. If gas goes back below $2.00, that puts us right back where we were before. I don’t want to go back. I want to forward and go electric. The Middle East can kiss my backside for all I care, along with the oil companies and the oil speculators.
Now, if his plan was simply to lift the ban, but not actually drill, then that might of been a good idea for the short term.
N. Riley, I know we disagree on this issue. I don’t think we will find middle ground on this one. We’ll just disagree, my friend.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I’ve seen the tax increases that Obama has proposed - taxes double for those earning $30,000. Those tax increases won’t fly, even with a democratically controlled Congress. I note that Obama has outpromised McCain on subsidies and is offering $3 billion. Exactly for what? So that UAW employees will want raises? That’s where the money will end up, we all know that.
Another, unmentioned Obama money-down-the-toilet and brainless idea is Obama’s promise to convert all Federal vehicles to
plug-in. I doubt that he even realizes that this is currently
impossible, and for those cars where it is possible, is economically nonsensical and environmentally insignificant . He claims this will encourage Americans to want plug-ins. Let’s see now, we have three times as many on the Volt plug-in waiting list as can be satisfied with the first year’s production and Obama thinks we
need to get the public interested, a public that’s been screaming and moaning about high gas prices. And he thinks a Fed govt example will be useful sure - I always look first to see how the Feds are spending their money before trying myself - I love those $5,000
hammers the Feds are always buying.
And, of course, Obama is quoting that 150 MPG figure, as if he has a clue that it doesn’t make any sense - different plug-ins different numbers, but the Volt ’s MPG we all know will be far greater than 150. Try double that number and you’ll be close, Barracks.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Patrick #7
“Well, of course it’s a bribe. You’ve nailed it.
O’Bama wants to paint himself as the “Green Candidate’.
This way he’ll appeal to all the suckers out there - a.k.a. Flag Burning Liberal Retards.”
************************************************************************************
This comment is disgusting. After all, wasn’t it McCain who promised the $5,000.00 tax incentive first? That wasn’t a “bribe” as well? What does that make him?
August 4th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
#25 JEC:
I think the 150 mpg comes from plug-in Prius number that been floating around.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Partisans - have at it. Wake me when we start speaking about the Volt again.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
If they could provide a $3500 tax rebate for a Prius, made in Japan, when gas was $2/gal, they can sure as !@#$%^ provide a $7000 credit for a Volt, made in USA, when gas is $4/gal.
Toyota has a huge animated billboard next to the 405 Freeway in one of the most congested areas in SoCal. It shows how many hundreds of millions of gallons of gas have been saved by the Prius fleet, day by day.
The tax credits clearly played a pivotal role in kick starting Prius production. I have no love for Toyota, and have no inteniton of buying one. Even so, how can anyone deny that those credits were good public policy?
August 4th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Great post and good news.
The Volt is not a done deal. We all need help to make the car a reality. And, it really is in the national interest that such cars as the Volt come to exist.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Mr. McCain,
Where is that $300 million reward for my Flux Capacitor ?
August 4th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I think the rebate is already factored into the price of the Volt.
Here is an interesting piece that says speculators are not the reason for the high price of crude. That was contrary to my belief, but it reads logical. It also begs the question of why is it going down now?
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_10091258?nclick_check=1
August 4th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
The fact that both U.S. presidential candidates are talking seriously about ending America’s addiction to oil, and promoting the Volt, is some very good news to say the least.
Now we will just need to hold the winner to their campaign promises. This is where the true work will be required. Talk on the campaign trail is very easy and changes from day to day. Making something happen in Washington, however, is a completely different game.
Concerning the $7000 tax credit Obama is proposing- I still feel that this is too little. Neither candidate seems to understand the importance of really pushing plug-in technology. While 1 million plug-ins in 6 years is a nice goal, I feel it will take more than a $7000 tax credit to make that happen. The Volt, and other plugins, have to be cost competitive in the car lot with ICE-only vehicles for the public to get onboard quickly.
The switch to plugins is a sea change that will be difficult for some segments of society to make, and will therefore require aggressive assistance from the government to get started. Sure the market will ultimately make things happen, but as with the Internet, GPS, and other ground-breaking technologies, it will require government support to get the ball rolling.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Rashiid,
We can agree to disagree and still be friendly as we both generally are with each other. I don’t think the fact of drilling for more oil is going to decrease the cost to the point where we will go back on electrifying our vehicles. It will make it harder, but do you realize what the high cost of fuel is doing to our economy and to our citizen’s pocket books? We can conserve only so much. I am already doing as little driving as I can outside of commuting to work and back. I know some people who are really hurting with the cost of fuel. It is becoming a decision of do I buy gas or food.
Bush did the right thing. Congress needs to follow suit. The cost of gasoline will not go below $3.00 per gallon even with more drilling. Too much is be used by the developing countries to let supply build up like that. And the speculators and the oil cartels have seen they can get that kind of price and they are not going to give it up.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Hello everyone. I’m home from vacation and I see lots of news to catch up on. I am so excited about my future VOLT. Bring it on. TED
August 4th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Because of the mighty Prius, Toyota is officially the Queen of Green until the marketplace produces a better vehicle. And so far…it ain’t happened. So deal with it folks.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
When George II was appointed President, oil was $20/barrel. Under his reign it went up to $147. Now it’s back down to $121. Great job George!
Oil has gone back down because we are broke and can’t afford to buy as much gas. Or maybe we are even getting a little smarter, buying smaller cars, and driving less. Not because politicians natter about offshore drilling.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
People, there are like 91 supertankers FULL of oil that are refusing to dock, so that oil stays high. Also the shipping speed of the tanker industry has been artificial slowed down by .6 knots/hour. There are a lot of “forces” at play in the oil industry.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
#43 Toyoda Empire:
Alas, too true.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I just realized - assuming every plug-in is like the Volt and essentially eliminates any need for gasoline by its owner (close enough for govt work) then 1 miilion plug-ins by 2015 is nothing. First, we have 250 million cars in this country and certainly that number will grow by at least 1 million by 2015. That means right
off the bat that those 1 million Obama plug-ins will have zero effect on current gasoline demands. But even if there were no additional cars at all, 1 miilion is less than 1/2 of one percent of the segment that consumes around 50% of petroleum, or less than 1/4th of petroleum demand. That is NOTHING!!! If those are Obama’s high hopes, he needs to take are fresher math course (in the unlikely event he ever was inside of a math classroom) (along with geography - you know, those 57 United States).
August 4th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
If elected president, I will provide $10K per Chevy Volt.
plus… incentives for 100 more nuclear plants. A true war on oil addiction instead of a war because of an oil addiction.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Len #8 We need incentives for the automakers to make efficient vehicles (electric, of course) and we need incentives to help consumers afford them and help make the decision easier.
I politely disagree with you on this, and agree with your later statements that we need less government. The government doesn’t need to use incentives to tell the companies to produce more efficient cars. All the big companies have been closing their large vehicle plants left and right, not because of incentives, but because the high gas price drove consumers away. That’s been 100 times more powerful than CAFE standards or hybrid incentives.
And I agree with Len #39 that the GM probably just added the subsidy onto the price. I doubt consumers will get this money, it goes into the pockets of the company. So I don’t see how these subsidies will benefit me at all. This money goes straight to investors.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Well I am not sure how I feel about this. Back in the 70s there were
a whole bunch of shoddy solar systems built to take advantage of
the tax breaks. I hope we do not see the same thing with cars.
Take Care
Arch
August 4th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
31 Rashiid Amul:
We can agree to disagree as well. I do find it interesting that the drilling method coupled with a price floor will create new jobs while your way would have me laid off for the second time in a year by January and lead to the death of several industries that would be crucial to do the retrofit of gas burners to EV’s on a mass scale.
Couple this with all the “renewable” industries concentrating in the former OEM automotive states, oil states, and California (for whatever reason) and the area I grew up in will become a ghost town for the second time in a century.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Gas is $3.69 in Dallas and falling. If this keeps up GM will soon disband the Volt program due to lack of interest. (just kidding…i hope)
August 4th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Don’t worry about the 200 million older vehicles on the road. If EV and other alternative fuel vehicles catch on the governments (state/city/federal) will just outlaw them from the road. Its that simple, remember driving is a privilege not a right.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Don’t worry, if you actually make enough money so you can afford one of these cars I am sure the IRS will make certain you don’t qualify for the tax credit anyhow. Remember, most tax credits disappear once you make over a specified amount of adjusted gross income.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
#27 N Riley - “I agree. His lifting the off-shore drilling ban helped. Regardless of what the naysayers say.”
You’re spot on! Let’s see. Did the unexpected demand destruction in the US have anything to do with the price drop? Of course not, demand never affects the price of commodities. Did the building inventories in the US affect the price? Of course not, supply never affects price. Did the consumer spending numbers and revised GDP numbers which raise the possibility that the US is in or will slide into recession affect the forward contract price? Of course not, future prices would never be affected by future demand. How about the fact that the numbers suggest the US is exporting its recession to other large developing economines. Of course not, everyone knows that a drop in world demand for oil wouldn’t affect world oil prices. Did the fact that the Chinese government cut subsidies for oil (but not diesel) have anything to do with the price drop? Of course not, because once again, everyone knows that higher prices will not effect demand and demand never affects price.
You’re right. It wasn’t any of these things, it was that Executive Order. The same thing Excutive Order which caused the much more dramatic drop in oil prices during the fall of 2006! Oh, there wasn’t such an Executive Order then? Well I’m sure it was because everyone knew Bush would sign the Executive Order in 2008 — that’s what caused it.
The price drop is not a mystery wrapped in an executive order. Goldman Sachs knows something about oil prices. Look at their report on the future price of oil. You won’t find any mention of offshore drilling period, much less a mention of a meaningless executive order which accomlished exactly nothing.
Without doubt, however, Bush did do something to lower the price of oil. That something was abandoning his earlier position and opening negotiations with the Iranians over their nuclear program. Iran supplies are critical to the world oil market, As the price of oil skyrocketed with every military exercise and table pound, someone finally figured out that the surest way to $300/bbl oil was tough talk about military alternatives. Basically the paradigm is: zip it and watch it drop.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
The drilling offshore bit is a compromise to get certain R congresscritters out of the way. It also puts ANWR off-limits, so a partial victory there…
It appears that someone read “Winning the Oil Endgame” to the Group of 10 and at least a couple of them retained a little of what they heard. About freaking time.
Hopefully there is room in there for some feebates too. Get the luxury monster truck purchasing crew to help finance your Volts, as it were.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
RB @54 — To avoid confusion, please do not identify as RB. Thanks
August 4th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Rob -
“Get the luxury monster truck purchasing crew to help finance your Volts…”
It is only fair, after all we helped pay for their trucks. - uh oversize SUVs. Remember that tax incentive?
C. Fan - That was not me on #8
August 4th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
The dealers will just raise the price by equal amounts. It won’t benefit consumers. Competition will.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Morgan,#51.
I don’t wish you and yours any harm. Honest.
My point is this: We must change.
We must get off of oil. Adding more oil to the marketplace simply does not lead to that end. It stalls the inevitable. That we are running out. Prices will go even higher as the end of oil becomes more obvious.
We must be ready when that happens. Our economy is in very bad shape.
We seem to be doing things wrong. Using oil to propel our cars, and using food to propel our cars. We must change and leave a better more stable world for children, grandchildren, and beyond.
I do wish you well, Morgan. Honestly.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
#38 Dr. Brown:
I bet if you bring the Flux Capacitor you will end up with $300 million, no problem.
#54 RB:
The tax credits for the Prius, Hohda civic hybrid, et al, did not go away with rising income. Neither did the ability to write off 6000#+ GVW Hummers, Escalades, et al. Our family didn’t get one of the famous stimulus checks, however.
#57 RB:
I was kind of wondering.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
#59 OhmExcited said “The dealers will just raise the price by equal amounts. It won’t benefit consumers. Competition will.”
I agree. At this particular moment, however, it is in our interest for the Volt to be profitable for dealers and GM, so let’s take it.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
N Riley:
I know, I know, I should learn to take my own “good” advice. I just couldn’t stand it ant more, alas.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
60 Rashiid Amul:
Thanks, I do appreciate it, really I do. Just as you can see, we all have different priorities. I happen to believe the Gang of 10 Apollo plan is the right way to go with drilling and massive mandated alternative energy investment. You can’t kill the patient with the cure and unless we start drilling everywhere I am not sure our economy will be able to put forth the cash needed to convert to alternative energies.
Price floors can do wonders to stop gas and OPEC from cratering the price to prevent alternative energy invest and I support them fully…don’t LET gas get down to 1.00 or 1.50. The industries of which I am involved in, automotive and RV, can survive $3.00 a gallon, maybe even $3.50 a gallon. It cannot survive the $4.00+ we have had in such a short period of increase.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I realize that he mentioned the volt by name, fair enough. But there is far too much political crap springing up these days.
We don’t really need to hear it. And I know I’m not alone in thinking this.
Though, If it’s not in an official post, people will bring it up in comments anyway, so its pointless to do anything about it.
/ignores all further political BS
August 4th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
The oil companys are using most of their profits for stock buy backs. Short term ways of boosting their stock prices. They are not exploring on the leases they were given off north Florida two years ago. They will tell you now they can’t explore because the ships are booked years in advance. There is no oil fairy. Demand is relatively unflexable and the oil companys have seen we will pay $4 a gallon. There is no shortage. Have you seen any shortage? Guess where the price of gas will be right after the election? I am guessing that all of your discretionary driving is like mine, none existant.
A million Volts, a million or two Priuses, and pretty soon we will be talking some real numbers that might make a bit of a difference. At least we will be headed in the right direction.
August 4th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Another political entry, Lyle? Well, uhh, There you go again.
~~~~~~~~
“Seven thousand! Seven thousand, from the young gentleman down front! Do we hear Seventy Five Hundred?”
This auction is far from over, folks.
~~~~~~~~
Rashiid Amul (#19):
“$7000 credit? Like EEStor, I will believe it when I see it.”
Maybe it’s a $7000 credit on cars powered by EEStor.
~~~~~~~~~
Dr. Brown:
“Mr. McCain,
Where is that $300 million reward for my Flux Capacitor ?”
We mailed it back to you in the late Cretaceous. Go back and get it.
~~~~~~~~~
We might as well laugh, folks; it gets more bitter from here
August 4th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
$4 billion? That’ll last like what, a quarter at GM?
This reminds me of the scene in Austin Powers where Dr. Evil says he is going to ask for a ransom of “One MiiIIIIIllllion dollars!” after having been in space for 30 years.
His assistant tells him they make more than that on the legal front companies and that they should ask for more than that.
C’mon USA (and OK, you Canadians, too
we’ve got to get serious about getting off oil and it’s going to cost us some real money to do so.
I’m growing potatoes in my Victory garden!
(Actually, according to Pickens, it’s costing us hundreds of billions to NOT do anything, so doing something is acutually going to be cheap by comparison!)
August 4th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Being a proud owner of 3000sh of GM I could care less for anything he has to offer…
Want to know what he`s really like?
Here`s a letter my daughters received
This was sent to me by a good friend.
She is friends with Tiffany and Jeff
who live in Virginia and Jeff is a soldier stationed over there.
This e-mail is from them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
I don’t know each of your personal political convictions, and apologize if anyone finds this offensive. I thought it was important enough to share.
This is Jeff’s first hand view of Senator Obama.
Tiffany
Hello everyone,
As you know I am not a very political person. I just wanted to pass along that Senator Obama came to Bagram Afghanistan for about an hour on his visit
to ‘The War Zone’. I wanted to share with you what happened.
He got off the plane and got into a bullet proof vehicle, got to the area to meet with the Major General (2 Star) who is the commander here at Bagram.
As the Soldiers where lined up to shake his hand he blew them off and didn’t say a word as he went into the conference room to meet the General. As he
finished, the vehicles took him to the ClamShell (pretty much a big top tent that military personnel can play basketball or work out in with weights) so
he could take his publicity pictures playing basketball. He again shunned
the opportunity to talk to Soldiers to thank them for their service.
So really he was just here to make a showing for the American’s back home
that he is their candidate for President.
I think that if you are going to
make an effort to come all the way over here you would thank those that are providing the freedom that they are providing for you.
I swear we got more thanks from the NBA Basketball Players or the Dallas Cowboy Cheer leaders than from one of the Senators, who wants to be the
President of the United States . I just don’t understand how anyone would want him to be our Commander-and-Chief. It was almost that he was scared to be around those that provide the freedom for him and our great country.
If this is blunt and to the point I am sorry but I wanted you all to know what kind of caliber of person he really is. What you see in the news is all
fake.
In service,
CPT Jeffrey S. (Name deleted by me)
Battle Captain
TF Wasatch
American Soldier
August 4th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
68 DaveP:
I would actually hope GM and Ford would use the funds to build automated battery pack facilities.
I read in the Indystar today that Enerdel is building a new 46,000 square foot production facility and hiring 50 new workers.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Some observations
#1. Subsidies directly to the consumers is usually a bad thing economically speaking. It distorts the market place leading to the adoption of inefficient technologies by hiding their true cost (but not reducing them). In the case of the Volt, they don’t even make sense from a social justice point of vue. After all, how many people truly in need can afford a 33,000 dollar volt in comparison to a 40,000 dollar volt? Most of the people really hurt by the price of gasoline can’t even afford a new (or slightly used) corolla…
Some solutions might be to tie the subsidy to some milestones, IE, I would prefer a politician to say “The first manufacturer who can sell a car for 27,000 dollars which gets 150 effective MPG (*DOE/EPA has an effective MPG equation already which relates electrical consumption to gasoline on an per energy unit basis during operation not a cost basis, see the Telsa page for an example and reference) will get a 7,000 dollar tax credit”.
Even better though is the idea of just doubling or tripling the gasoline tax. This creates market incentive and if used properly such as displacing other income taxes or paying off long-term government debt does not create an undue burden on taxpayers.
#2. The price of oil today is significantly tied to traders, producers, and consumers expectation of supply and demand in the future. Price of both oil and gasoline have spiked this century due to many factors including tighter environmental regulation (and expectation of tighter in the future), strong demand from India and China (and the idea both countries will have a car “Revolution” via such things as Tata’s one Lakh car), and the expectation of political unrest in major oil producing countries, whether due to war- Iraq/Iran or political activism ala Hugo Chavez. Most of these factors are completely outside the control of the US President and the US government. However, if the US was serious about really creating long lasting peace AND loosing environmental restrictions, they could actually drive the cost of oil down. (Bush’s move was just a cheap ploy to pin the blame of the Democratic congress who everyone knows can not afford to lift its off-shore oil ban. The traders realize this too, so his signing should have little to no effect on oil)
#3. Something that always amazes me is the fear that big companies are somehow suppressing technology or avoiding certain avenues of research. The economic fact is that the company that brings a “next” wave of energy production or propulsion to market stands to make billions if not trillions in profits from its sales and IP patents. Although there is the possibilities of short-term collusions, over the long run there is just too much incentive to be the company that takes a market while others are sleeping.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
The Obama thing posted in #69 is a hoax.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp
The latest chain e-mail smear against Barack Obama: He “blew off” troops at an Afghan base to shoot hoops for a publicity photo.
The e-mail claims Obama repeatedly shunned soldiers on his way to the Clamshell — a recreation tent — to “take his publicity pictures playing basketball.”
“These comments are inappropriate and factually incorrect,” said Bagram spokeswoman Army Lt. Col. Rumi Nielson-Green, who added that such political commentary is barred for uniformed personnel.
Obama didn’t play basketball at Bagram or visit the Clamshell, she said. Home-state troops were invited to meet him, but his arrival was kept secret for security reasons.
“We were a bit delayed … as he took time to shake hands, speak to troops and pose for photographs,” Nielson-Green said.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
We have just enabled the use of gravatars which will show up next to your comments.
If you don’t have one you can easily set it up at either:
http://www.gravatar.com
OR
http://www.mybloglog.com
Feel free to let me know what you think.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
I Love Obama!
August 4th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
This is what we need. It is a good start but we should expand on it. Go Volt!
August 4th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
73 Lyle. Thanks, I was wondering why all the smiley faces beneath the numbers today.
#22 POTUS.
WTI average for JUNE = $134
WTI average for JULY = $133
Doesn’t seem much of a drop to me.
More importantly crude reserves are still dropping month on month. I see no reason to back away from my claim several months ago that WTI will be in the $150 - $180 range by the end of the year.
It is normal to have ups and downs in a rising market. The trend is the important thing. I still think fuel prices will drive sales of Volt like vehicles for some time, Even the egg shaped ones (eg. iMiev).
August 4th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Is this a great idea and the best way for our country to go forward? I don’t know, you don’t know and most importantly Obama and McCain don’t know. Why? Because the plan has not been developed by the best experts and minds in the world.
Many have said it best that it’s a political tool to get more votes. That’s our system and candidates have to play the game to appear strong so they get elected. I just hope that the candidate that gets elected is smart enough to do the right thing. That is to start working on a real plan that moves us forward in the best way possible when considering all things from economic to geopolitical. I like to call this master plan The Apollo Energy Plan.
Doing something so important requires the best plan possible. Thus, let the candidates spout huge plans that promise quick results but when that one candidate gets elected wouldn’t you feel better if what we actually put our time and money into is pulled together by scientists and experts motivated in making our country strong both at home as well as globally? Don’t be a silly person that gets all excited about a silly quick-fix scam. Demand a plan that is but together by people that should be putting the plan together. Those people are definitely not politicians, their buddies and lobbyists. Demand better. Demand a plan that addresses the short, medium, and long term energy needs of our country
August 4th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
This is excellent news.
Having a goal, even one that seems impossible, is the first step in achieving that goal.
flying across the atlantic
climbing the highest mountain
Rice playing Texas
choosing to go to the moon
re-inventing how energy is collected and used to free us from oil and the people who control it
The first four should sound familiar…it’s our turn now.
harrier1970 (formerly Jason C)
August 4th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Nice Lyle!
So now that we have gravatars, can we solve all these oil issues?
August 4th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Cool…
August 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
#28 Rashiid Amul
“Huh? If the government gets involved by giving tax credits, then we are getting back OUR money. What did you mean?”
—–
If you give someone $7,000 credit for buying a $40,000 car, then that person is “happy”. So, this person gets to take full advantage of the tax credit. The poor schmuk, who cannot afford the $33,000 (with tax incentive), gets no tax break, and has now paid part of the tax break for the, more well off fellow.
These types of tax breaks tend to hurt the poorer and help the richer. The old adage “The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer” comes into play.
Trying to subsidize the Volt, will only hurt those who are least likely to ever own one. Let the free market place set the price for the Volt. The right price, for the right product, at the right time.
If we want to reduce oil dependency, then why not subsidize high-end tennis shoes. More people could then afford to walk further and burn zero oil. Sounds ridiculous, right? Well, in the end so does subsidizing a car.
We all know the Volts will sell all they can produce. Don’t let GM fool you into thinking they are trying to “help” you out by getting the govt to kick in a little cash. GM will (and others have said the same) set the price, then add the subsidy to the price.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Here comes Santa Claus
Here comes Santa Claus
Right down K street lane…
August 4th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
“GM will warrant the Volt’s battery to 150,000 miles or 10 years”
http://www.designnews.com/article/47485-General_Motors_R_D_Chief_Larry_Burns_Sees_Electric_Drive_across_Product_Line.php
August 4th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Ok, my blood is starting to boil!
Just listening to the news, and Obama comes on and says something like “I want to give $1,000 energy credits, and that money should come from big oil”
Stop the insanity! Oil companies are definitely having a good few years. Well, so is Google, so why not have Google pay an “advertisement subsidy”? They have made a larger percentage growth than oil companies, so let gouge them for $2,000 credit to anyone who used google or the internet.
Lets get back to technical issues on the Volt. I miss them so
August 4th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
“Gravatars” are not an improvement, IMHO.
Grmph.
Maybe I’ll gradually warm up to the idea.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Gravatar check.. Check
August 4th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
I heard that if Obama gets elected everything is free and we won’t need dollars anymore.
Seriously, any tax credit given to the end buyer will just raise the price of the car that same amount if not more. Wasting money to process it only to go to GM anyway. Just give it to them and STFU.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
For those who want to add your picture just go to:
http://www.gravatar.com
They will show you what to do. It might not work at first so give it some time (hour or day). Since http://www.gravatar.com relates your email address to a picture there is nothing else you need to do. Simple!
August 4th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Silly little toys.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Could #69 be deleted please? It’s wrong and inappropriate to the subject of this thread.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
#81 JEC
“”"”These types of tax breaks tend to hurt the poorer and help the richer. The old adage “The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer” comes into play.
Trying to subsidize the Volt, will only hurt those who are least likely to ever own one. Let the free market place set the price for the Volt. The right price, for the right product, at the right time. “”"”
JEC, I don’t really want to go on another one of my “the poor are lazy” and “the poor deserve to be poor” rants, but come on man, have you ever seen the tax structure of the USA. Think of who will be buying the volt and think of who will be paying the most taxes. The poor pay a disproportionately small amount of taxes and receive a disproportionately large amount of government benefit. The poor demand help with health care yet they would rather buy an iPod and some spinning rims on their car than fork out money for health care insurance that they CAN afford (I did when I was making $15,000 per year). The poor are exempt from paying taxes on a huge percent of their income while the well off pay 34% on a large portion of theirs. The really rich, the ones making over 1 million per year probably aren’t interested in the volt anyway. The way I see it is this $7000 per volt is a way to rebalance the unfair amount of benefits going to the poor. I’d rather just see gasoline at $10/gallon and no incentives at all and no handouts to the poor, let them work and seek education if they want to live an easier life, in fact the only handout I think should ever go to the poor is a scholarship.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Wonder where he is going to get the money. Seems he has promised everybody everything. By my last count he has promised more than the country makes in a year and he hasn’t even been elected yet! I think it’s just political bullshit. Next month he won’t even remember he said it.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Obama’s speech impresses me primarily because….
1) No other electric or hybrid car’s name was mentioned, past, present or future —except Volt— and it’s 2 years in the future!
2) Of roughly 52 paragraphs in the speech, fully 5 paragraphs (or about 10%) discuss plug-ins, tax credits for plug-ins and govt loans for factories to manufacture them!
It’s clear that at least Obama’s (and McCain’s) speechwriters are paying attention!
August 4th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
#69 ed noble
Did you know that “gullible” is not in the dictionary?
#72 Andy
Thanks for separating fact from fiction. The #69 letter sounded too bad to be true.
Democracy demands an informed electorate.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
# 69 is from a political hoaxer. I say delete it and ban the ip.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Ok we have had GM - Ford and Demo - Repub.
I think you all should be well vented……
CAN WE GET BACK TO THE VOLT NOW
Gooooooooooooooooo GM
Goooooooooooooooooooooo VOLT
August 5th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Uhh..Lyle!
Could I please ask you to delete #69 as well as ask users to refrain from getting too political? Whie I understand that politics will be part of bringing the VOLT to reality at more reasonable price, what does a post like #74, which states, “I love Obama!” have to do with the VOLT? Please delete #74, too while at it; it has no place in this site in MHO.
Thank you.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:27 am
JEC #81: You are assuming that the buyer will use the $7,000 towards a Volt. Why can’t we use the $7,000 towards a plug-in Prius at $25,000?
Law #91: Ditto on the free handouts. I worked my way through college and graduate school with no free money from anywhere. People need to get off their butts and work for what they want. America is the land of opportunity, not entitlement!
August 5th, 2008 at 1:11 am
#70 Morgan:
Actually, I was hoping for sharks with laser beams!
Sorry. Anyway, yes. As much as I’d like to see GM investing in the battery tech to make it’s cars successful, it seems to have had kind of a, er, love-hate relationship in the past. Take Cobasys for example. GM was the driver and majority owner of that endeavor to productize the NiMh batteries for the EV1 and then when they stopped fiddling with that they burned their bridges and sold the whole tech, rights and all to the oil companies (well, one anyway). It’s been a mess, ever since. Plus, now they’re kind of getting hosed by Cobasys as their sole supplier (because Cobasys sued everyone else making good batteries into submission) for their hybrid batteries and all the thousands of recalls from bad Cobasys batteries…
(Hmmm, I don’t think my Gravitar is working… Bummer.)
August 5th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Anybody who argues that Bush’s speech removing the ban on off-shore drilling is responsible for the latest drop in oil prices is unwittingly also arguing that Obama is RIGHT that oil speculators are a big part of the current oil price crisis.
Because if the market was actually driven by supply and demand, a speech to possibly increase supply at some point in the distant future could never cause a price drop now. The only thing that could have changed after the speech would be the behavior of the speculators, since actual supply wasn’t changed by the speech.
Saying Bush’s speech drove down the price can ONLY be true if the price was artificially inflated by speculators in the first place.
So if you really believe that Bush’s speech caused the latest lowering in the price of oil, then what you really want is Obama’s plan to put the controls back on oil speculators that existed before Bush entered office. That way we don’t have to rely upon presidential speeches to manipulate the behavior of the oil speculators. Instead the speculators can be kept from profiteering, and put back into the beneficial role of acting as productive middlemen. The oil traders can go back to being a net positive force for the market, instead of sucking money out of the system.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:25 am
I don’t think #69 should be deleted. It should just be repeatedly insulted as the lies that it is.
What I call for, is all the pro-McCain folks on this board to do the same. To stand up against this sort of manipulation of the process in the name of your candidate.
Because if McCain supporters stand idly by without raising your voice against those who spread lies while falsely claiming to be members of the US military, you denigrate both your candidate, and our military.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:33 am
All I can say is Nobama. As a physician , I know the last thing we need is more government intervention. Look what its done to our healthcare system. GM sold 10 million vehicles last year and lost billions of dollars. They have a flawed business model and should go bankrupt so they can resturcture. Free market forces will demand the Volt be produced. Look at the demand for the Prius which currently has no tax break. If GM can’t deliver then Fisker, Tesla, Think or Phoenix will.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:18 am
What if I promise $9000 tax credits? Do I get to be president? Isn’t this whole thing just a little silly?
August 5th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Where does Obama think the money will come from? Bail out Freddie Mac and Fanny Ma, bail out the failed banks, loans to automakers, $7000 tax credits, bail out owners of houses going into foreclosure.
You will pay for all of this thru higher taxes.
August 5th, 2008 at 7:34 am
This is just more of the usual crap that Obama is spewing - he might as well be say “Please! Let me have your vote - I’ll do anything!!!” I feel the truth is, that either one of these guys will play this angle - so I wouldn’t hold my breath. My money is still on McCain though - at least he does seem somewhat realistic about his goals on energy.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Next Obama will be taking full credit for the Volt. HIS tax break he will claim spurred on the development of an EV. As we can all see the “free markets” will take care of themselves if you can get our government out of the way!
August 5th, 2008 at 8:29 am
#64 Morgan
“don’t LET gas get down to 1.00 or 1.50″
I absolutely, totally, agree. Pick me for your VP candidate!
I wonder what our chances of getting elected are?
If we had gas taxes like in Europe, we’d already have cool, efficient cars like in Europe. I’d like a $7000 rebate on an Audi A2, please.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:43 am
104 Ed
True, hang on to your wallet…..
August 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am
#66 Len
Could you please let me in on what the oil conspiracy is? Except for OPEC I always though it was a global commodities market. At least that’s what all the economists say. Using your theory, do you have some future prediction?
I understand everyone’s desire to get off of oil. I want to as well because it costs me a lot of money. The question is how much and when. Should we have started getting off oil 100 years ago before we started? Or maybe 10 years ago, or maybe never. It’s impossibe to know. But that oil market, since it factors in future supply & demand, easily lets me know when its time to move away. When there’s a cheaper alternative. And the Volt is just around the corner.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:10 am
I think Tesla Motors, Fisker Automotive and Aptera will find it interesting that Obama thinks Michigan is the state leading the green transportation charge.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:15 am
#32 “but the Volt ’s MPG we all know will be far greater than 150. Try double that number and you’ll be close”
—–
That’s only true if gas prices go to $6/gal.
40 miles / $0.80 (Average charge rate) = 50 miles per $1.
At $6/gal: 50 miles per $1 * $6/gal = 300 MPG.
At $4/gal: 50 miles per $1 * $4/gal = 200 MPG.
At $2/gal: 50 miles per $1 * $2/gal = 100 MPG.
Maybe the 150 MPG is coming from 200 MPG plug in mileage, plus some miles with the range extender, to bring it back down to somewhere around 150 MPG. 150 MPG seems a reasonable ballpark number to me…
August 5th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Just for the record, “Bribery” involves the perversion of morals. So it’s not “bribery” to get paid after doing work, but IS bribery if the intent is to say, “influence” a vote.
Be well,
Tag
August 5th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Well, this thread totally went to he–. Nothing but political crap.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I am a college student. I don’t make more than 5k taxable a year. If I want to buy one of these how is the 7k tax credit applied to me? Will i get $7000 cash at the end of the year? or what? Is it saying i can subtract $7k from my income, or is it like a stimulus check?
Yes i can afford one. I get stipends and grants..
August 5th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Is this a refundable or non-refundable tax credit?
August 5th, 2008 at 9:57 am
It is NOT bias to report that John McCain visited the VOLT DESIGN CENTER, when this site is dedicated to all news regarding the Volt.
If Obama pledges to provide $7,000 in subsidies to hybrids and EV’s (like the Volt), then it is NOT bias either, just more news effecting the Volt’s viability in the market place.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Assuming that Obama wins the presidency, don’t be surprised if the Republicans fight him tooth & nail on tax credits for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Quote from Lyle’s base post “He mentioned his belief that Michigan would be the site”
Today they showed clips of him in Ohio giving the same talk… but this time saying it would create the jobs in Ohio.
In any case, I hope any tax credit is based on either usable capacity of the battery (the Volt would be only 8kwh not 16)… or how many miles/charge it can go on battery power alone (this will favor lighter more energy efficient vehicles).
I haven’t read the other replies but I assume folks have already bought up that terms like “150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrids” means nothing with out stating the assumptions (miles/day driven, etc)
August 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Bottom line, this is good news. It is one more step toward the viability of the Volt.
We have the money GM. We are not buying another car until we can get a Volt. Time’s a wastin’!
August 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
What happened to a free market economy??
Government “welfare” has never been good for the general population.
Build something worthwhile an people will buy it!
If you build a car that operates for $.10/mile, I could save about $.15/mile on fuel.
If the car costs $15,000 more . the difference would be paid for in 100,000 miles.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Please go to this web site and learn about Electric Vehicles: eveprformancewarehouse.com
David Sterrett
President / Director R&D
August 5th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I hope people can see through Obama’s shallow, election year campaign promises. He’s only offering $7000 because John McCain previously identified the real need for his $5000 tax credit. I am afraid if Barack wins, it’s going to be a real “Obama nation”!
August 5th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Obmama promises all kinds of things … but he has to get elected first. Then he can change his mind like he has done on several issues. Snce he will not support off shore drilling … then he has to support the EVs.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Can someone help me please? 1 million cars on the road at $7000 tax credit per car. how much money is that? A whole lotta zeros is all I know. Obama is such a liar. Unbelievable how many people believe it. He waits for a McCain stance on something then lies to one up him.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
#69, #105, 106, 122 & (ironically) #124 “i’m dumb”
What I am about to tell you also goes for anybody else who wants to use this blog as a political forum. This site is dedicated to the Volt and making it a reality.
Communicate constructively about what the post is about or shut the f#@k up. I personally don’t care for your political slant on this site and I am not alone. Go sling mud someplace else.
More often than not, it is better to listen than to speak…this is one of those times. Actually, you should just listen and learn before speaking. People like Statik and Nasaman can talk all they want ;-).
August 5th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
#114 Brandon,
The tax credits they are talking about with the volt are a credit, not a deduction at the end of the year. It basically means the government will chip in 7000 to help you buy the car. It effectively reduces the selling price of the car by 7000 (or 5000 for McCain).
Not to get political, but I DO find it a little funny that Obama had to one up McCain after McCain announced his 5000 credit. All in all, I chalk it up to more politicians overpromising and underdelivering. The most powerful force for change is NOT politics, but the free market economy.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
#60 Rashiid,
I read this blog everyday but do not post very often. I am usually in complete agreement with you, however, you have to realize that the offshore drilling that is proposed right now is not to lower the cost of gasoline. I don’t think they could get it out of the ground fast enough for that. It’s mainly just to keep it from rising any more. I’m in full support of drilling on the continental shelf. There are 86 billion barrels of proven reserves there, which with Americas rate of consumption of 20 million barrels of oil per day, that equals 4300 days (11.7 years) of our current total consumption levels or 7166 days (19.63 years) worth of imported oil (at current levels of 60% imports). That’s not enough to free us of our problem. But it is surely enough to make the transition to EV’s more comfortable, and actually, quicker. The price of oil effects everything, and if everything is cheaper people will have more money to buy EV’s.
Besides, as much as we want to see the US completely off of oil, it realistically can’t happen. Not completely. Planes won’t fly on biodiesel, and long haul trucks can’t use a 40 mile range EV. They need 1000 miles in 36 hours. EV’s won’t be able to do that for a loooong time, if ever.
China and other countries have already expressed interest in drilling in the Continental shelf region anyway. It would be kind of silly if other countries had their rigs off our coastline, but we didn’t have any of our own.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
That soldier letter isn’t the only thing is this thread that is a flat-out lie.
To #32 kent beuchert
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp
That’s what you get from people who get their news from chain e-mails.
To those who think the tax credits for these vehicles is a bad idea, consider a few things. Yes, the Prius is selling very well without a tax break currently, but it did have a large tax credit included in its early years when the price of the vehicle was significantly higher and the economies of scale had not developed yet.
But the bottom line is that we subsidize the cost of every gallon of gas with the enormous amounts of dollars that get poured into our military to patrol areas of the world that are useless save for their oil reserves. With a dramatic drop in our need for foreign oil and a more sane foreign policy, the investment in alternative vehicles through tax credits would pay for itself many times over.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Will@126
The only difference between Obama and McCain (re these cars) is the amount of people’s money they want to give away.
JMO,
Be well,
Tag
PS I agree with you on #127 though.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
A tax credit does not lower the price of the car. It is not a deduction but the total amount is added to your return. Either lower the amount you pay or raising the amount you recieve. Remember the AMT thou.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Here is food for thought.
If we could eliminate the $700 billion we spend annually on foriegn oil for 12 years we would have saved $8.4 Trillion dollars. (per T. Boone Pickens)
That is enough money to replace 240 million american cars at $35,000 each. If we went to the Volt we could possibly eliminate some of our domestic oil as well.
Imagine what kind of stimulus it would be to our economy to build and replace 240 Million cars. And it could all be financed with deferred middle east oil revenues.
As well we could begin to bridge this major changeover by many means. For instance starting a massive retrofit program of existing U.S. cars with hybrid or electric technology, financed by monthly fuel savings.
This would put net after tax savings in the pockets of all americans, create a financing vehicle for decimated financial institutions, after the sub-prime fraud and create an ongoing stimulus package, financed again by foriegn oil.
Both candidates proposals are woefully inadequate given the magnitude of the problem, but Barrack’s is a larger step in the right direction.
Tim
August 8th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Don’t worry about the initial cost of the car or the tax credit. It might be too bad that you won’t be able to go on some nice vacation to the tropics this year or buy the best newest ipod or flat screen TV in order to pay for the Volt. Its time to do things for the right reason. If it was not for the severe environmental impact of burning too much oil and other CO2 sources, I would say screw you all. I wonder where most of you were when oil was cheep? Based on what I see on the road, probably burning as much gasoline as you could in a big SUV or boat of a car. I apologize to those who have been aware or have changed their ways because they have been made aware.
My entire life (40 yrs) I’ve been pushing all who I encounter to buy efficient cars. I have yet to own a gas guzzler in comparison to what has been offered at the time. My current car is an 04 Civic Hybrid. I get well over the 48 stated on the sticker. In fact I get up near 60 just driving the speed limit. This is better than those I know with a Prius. If we don’t stop worrying about the almighty dollar and more about the environment, it won’t matter how much money you have in your bank account. After all, how much stuff does one need. How many times does one need to go out to eat. Spend some quality time at home instead of your cash at Starbucks.
The evidence is out there and always has been. As an environmental scientist I’ve realized that people have been brainwashed by the media and lobbyists to think the problem won’t effect them. Welcome to the new world. The world will survive, but I fear we won’t.
#131: For the economy, you hit it dead on.
Good luck to you all when food becomes too expensive to buy because we cannot grow it due to the fluctuating weather.
August 10th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
mccain plans to offer a $1.50 rebate from Walmart for the purchase of an extension cord.lol Thats his energy plan!! Mccain is a big oil shill and has no real plan for americas energy needs but more of the same.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:03 am
First of all,leave the damn politicians out of the Volt equation.Most of ‘em don’t know how to pass a worthwhile bill,let alone complex tax credit formulas
formulas,that will have a million and one IRS loopholes in it.What GM has
to do,is make a profit yes,but more importantly an affordable product.A new
concept vehicle going from 40-47K is going to put it way out of reach,for a
lot of people,and won’t save their asses.They need volume,not just high end
profits like they got with all those Jurrasic ERA SUV’s!G.M.better wake up
and smell the coffee,or the Volt project could singe their corporate hides.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:39 am
Tim G versus JEC.
JEC, Tim body slammed you on this one. Your under the delusion Oil pricing is actually free market. Good luck. We’ve been milked as a nation to the tune of, as Tim, vis-a-vis T Boone states, $8.4 billion poorer as a nation. Everytime alternatives to oil come up, the Oil Barons of the Middle-East simply set the price a wee bit below the alternative till it dries up. Get with the program - drop your Adam Smith rhetoric in a very un-Adam Smith world.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I would be happy if either of the candidates would simply vote on existing legislation. They both abstained on HR 6049, which provides for tax credits on PHEV’s. I don’t get it…they say they support the concept but won’t vote on the legislation….oh…wait.. They’re politicians, aren’t they?