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	<title>Comments on: Ford: Mass Production of Plug-in Electric Cars at Least 5 Years Away</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:07:32 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Moe</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-60311</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-60311</guid>
		<description>Oil and gas will be used as fuel and for heating for a long time.
Millions of trucks on the road will not convert to electric.   Nor will farm equipment or diesel-electric train engines.    At least in the foreseeable future.
I am in the cheering section for GM.   Go Go  Go GM !
We have to start somewhere and get our passenger vehicles converted to electric or some other form of propulsion which will free up the gas and oil supply for use in the heavy equipment.
   I&#039;m retired and only drive 6-10,000 miles a year.   Even at $4.00 the cost is not so bad really.    However if GM can pull it off and make something like the planned Volt for a halfway decent price, I want one !   I don&#039;t need one but I want one.  The idea of waving at the gas stations as I drive by plus telling the Arabs what to with their oil and just the coolness of driving an electric, quiet running auto are enough for me.
    There is definitely a market for millions of Volts if GM can do it right.
    GM,   Just do it !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oil and gas will be used as fuel and for heating for a long time.<br />
Millions of trucks on the road will not convert to electric.   Nor will farm equipment or diesel-electric train engines.    At least in the foreseeable future.<br />
I am in the cheering section for GM.   Go Go  Go GM !<br />
We have to start somewhere and get our passenger vehicles converted to electric or some other form of propulsion which will free up the gas and oil supply for use in the heavy equipment.<br />
   I&#8217;m retired and only drive 6-10,000 miles a year.   Even at $4.00 the cost is not so bad really.    However if GM can pull it off and make something like the planned Volt for a halfway decent price, I want one !   I don&#8217;t need one but I want one.  The idea of waving at the gas stations as I drive by plus telling the Arabs what to with their oil and just the coolness of driving an electric, quiet running auto are enough for me.<br />
    There is definitely a market for millions of Volts if GM can do it right.<br />
    GM,   Just do it !</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56959</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56959</guid>
		<description>79 Paul-R:

I apologize for taking so long on this but I was busy at work.  The gas and credit crunch is in the process of dismantling all the business in my industry :)

I, personally, would have severe reservations about purchasing from LionEV.  Going through their site they make several umm...exagerrations or misrepresentations.

They are not bailment approved upfitters for Ford.  They claim they are purchasing from a fleet account but this is false since fleet accounts and approved upfitters (conversion companies) receive and order their vehicles directly from Ford or GM.  They are getting drop ship units from their local Ford dealer or other dealerships.  This is a way to get around the quality controls that a bailment account requires.  They are ordering them in 10 at a time to limit the amount of time the vehicle is in their possession before it gets titled to the end user in order to avoid being caught or poo poo&#039;d by the dealerships floorplan finance company.  This used to be a pretty common practice prior to bailment pools being implemented in the early 90&#039;s.  This is all speculation but there are enough oddities regarding ordering and purchasing from their website that don&#039;t jibe with the capabilities a fleet account approved upfitter would be able to do (With a fleet account or bailment you can order as many vehicles as you want and in whatever flavor of package you want or color)

What this means for you...their warranty claim regarding full manufacturer&#039;s warranty outside of the drive train is....iffy.  It depends on the dealership.  If the service department at your local dealer doesn&#039;t mind the conversion he will implement the warranty on any of the interior components.  If he sends a flag up Ford (or any OEM) will very likely come back that your warranty is void because you messed with major vehicle components.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>79 Paul-R:</p>
<p>I apologize for taking so long on this but I was busy at work.  The gas and credit crunch is in the process of dismantling all the business in my industry <img src='http://gm-volt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I, personally, would have severe reservations about purchasing from LionEV.  Going through their site they make several umm&#8230;exagerrations or misrepresentations.</p>
<p>They are not bailment approved upfitters for Ford.  They claim they are purchasing from a fleet account but this is false since fleet accounts and approved upfitters (conversion companies) receive and order their vehicles directly from Ford or GM.  They are getting drop ship units from their local Ford dealer or other dealerships.  This is a way to get around the quality controls that a bailment account requires.  They are ordering them in 10 at a time to limit the amount of time the vehicle is in their possession before it gets titled to the end user in order to avoid being caught or poo poo&#8217;d by the dealerships floorplan finance company.  This used to be a pretty common practice prior to bailment pools being implemented in the early 90&#8217;s.  This is all speculation but there are enough oddities regarding ordering and purchasing from their website that don&#8217;t jibe with the capabilities a fleet account approved upfitter would be able to do (With a fleet account or bailment you can order as many vehicles as you want and in whatever flavor of package you want or color)</p>
<p>What this means for you&#8230;their warranty claim regarding full manufacturer&#8217;s warranty outside of the drive train is&#8230;.iffy.  It depends on the dealership.  If the service department at your local dealer doesn&#8217;t mind the conversion he will implement the warranty on any of the interior components.  If he sends a flag up Ford (or any OEM) will very likely come back that your warranty is void because you messed with major vehicle components.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56746</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56746</guid>
		<description>In 5 years they will be looking at everyones taillights.
Your missing the boat FORD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 5 years they will be looking at everyones taillights.<br />
Your missing the boat FORD</p>
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		<title>By: Pester</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56734</link>
		<dc:creator>Pester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56734</guid>
		<description>American workers working for American companies is better America. Some Japanese automakers employ Americans but the profits go back to Japan. We are still bleeding cash out of the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American workers working for American companies is better America. Some Japanese automakers employ Americans but the profits go back to Japan. We are still bleeding cash out of the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56690</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56690</guid>
		<description>Most people are missing the real reasons why no large established automaker will sell an EV:

Did you know that it&#039;s possible to build a full sized electric vehicle (EV), freeway capable for more than 100 miles per charge with batteries that last the life of the vehicle, and with air conditioning and power windows, etc. (not the costly Tesla)? This is without research into Lithium or other exotic batteries (like the Tesla) but instead with proven Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries. This car has been on the road for 10 years now as an embarrassment to the entities that stand against the existence of an electric vehicle: It is the Toyota electric Rav4.
 
The &quot;research required&quot; line we always hear is a big lie, which unfortunately, most of us believe.
 
Who does not want EV&#039;s in our driveways:
 
-Big Automakers, because they, and their dealer networks do not earn significant revenue by selling cars. A look at how large their service departments are (and our out-of-wallet experience with them) shows what&#039;s at stake revenue-wise because EV&#039;s never need service beyond tire changes. They don&#039;t even need brake jobs due to electronic regenerative braking that does most of the work. Their ordinary friction brake pads and rotors thus last the life of the car (as shown on the Toyota electric Rav4).
The large car companies depend on their service department, like printer companies depend on sale of ink cartridges. Note: Why did Toyota sell the Rav4 instead of leasing and crushing as GM did? It&#039;s a mystery, but I came across a blog that mentioned that a Toyota exec at a public speech mistakenly said that the cars would be sold, and so to save face, Toyota reluctantly sold the Rav4. Buyers, however, now post on blogs that they actually had difficulty in getting the dealer to sell them an electric Rav4. As a journalist, you can probably resolve this apparent contradiction of why Toyota would build the Rav4 EV but not want to sell it. 
 
-Large oil companies, for obvious reasons. Note they are also major stockholder in auto companies and thus probably have influence over their board of directors.
 
-Kragens, Jiffy Lube, Smog Check Stations, muffler/brake centers, etc.
 
Final Comment: There is a viable battery, the &quot;95 AH NiMH Large Format&quot; battery. This powers the Rav4 EV.
This battery is no longer sold (why?), but instead a much smaller capacity battery, a 10 AH NiMH battery is sold to go into the hybrid cars we now drive. This smaller capacity battery insures the car still mostly runs on gas.
 
There are many web sites that explore these issues. Google: &quot;Rav4 EV&quot; or &quot;95 AH Large Format NiMH battery&quot;, or you can visit this amateur web site: http://www.evprogress.org/ which has various links and research that an investigative journalist will find intriguing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people are missing the real reasons why no large established automaker will sell an EV:</p>
<p>Did you know that it&#8217;s possible to build a full sized electric vehicle (EV), freeway capable for more than 100 miles per charge with batteries that last the life of the vehicle, and with air conditioning and power windows, etc. (not the costly Tesla)? This is without research into Lithium or other exotic batteries (like the Tesla) but instead with proven Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries. This car has been on the road for 10 years now as an embarrassment to the entities that stand against the existence of an electric vehicle: It is the Toyota electric Rav4.</p>
<p>The &#8220;research required&#8221; line we always hear is a big lie, which unfortunately, most of us believe.</p>
<p>Who does not want EV&#8217;s in our driveways:</p>
<p>-Big Automakers, because they, and their dealer networks do not earn significant revenue by selling cars. A look at how large their service departments are (and our out-of-wallet experience with them) shows what&#8217;s at stake revenue-wise because EV&#8217;s never need service beyond tire changes. They don&#8217;t even need brake jobs due to electronic regenerative braking that does most of the work. Their ordinary friction brake pads and rotors thus last the life of the car (as shown on the Toyota electric Rav4).<br />
The large car companies depend on their service department, like printer companies depend on sale of ink cartridges. Note: Why did Toyota sell the Rav4 instead of leasing and crushing as GM did? It&#8217;s a mystery, but I came across a blog that mentioned that a Toyota exec at a public speech mistakenly said that the cars would be sold, and so to save face, Toyota reluctantly sold the Rav4. Buyers, however, now post on blogs that they actually had difficulty in getting the dealer to sell them an electric Rav4. As a journalist, you can probably resolve this apparent contradiction of why Toyota would build the Rav4 EV but not want to sell it. </p>
<p>-Large oil companies, for obvious reasons. Note they are also major stockholder in auto companies and thus probably have influence over their board of directors.</p>
<p>-Kragens, Jiffy Lube, Smog Check Stations, muffler/brake centers, etc.</p>
<p>Final Comment: There is a viable battery, the &#8220;95 AH NiMH Large Format&#8221; battery. This powers the Rav4 EV.<br />
This battery is no longer sold (why?), but instead a much smaller capacity battery, a 10 AH NiMH battery is sold to go into the hybrid cars we now drive. This smaller capacity battery insures the car still mostly runs on gas.</p>
<p>There are many web sites that explore these issues. Google: &#8220;Rav4 EV&#8221; or &#8220;95 AH Large Format NiMH battery&#8221;, or you can visit this amateur web site: <a href="http://www.evprogress.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.evprogress.org/</a> which has various links and research that an investigative journalist will find intriguing.</p>
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		<title>By: GM Volt Fan</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56644</link>
		<dc:creator>GM Volt Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56644</guid>
		<description>Free trivia of the day ... did you know that the top guy in marketing at Ford is the cousin of (the late) Saturday Night Live comedian Chris Farley?  Yep.  James Farley .... a much thinner version of Chris.  It looks like they have similar hairstyles though.  :)

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_32/b4095040365207.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story

http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/21/chrisfarley1.jpg

At Ford, James Farley better be a good motivational speaker like Matt Foley or they might all be &quot;sleeping in a van down by the river&quot;.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Free trivia of the day &#8230; did you know that the top guy in marketing at Ford is the cousin of (the late) Saturday Night Live comedian Chris Farley?  Yep.  James Farley &#8230;. a much thinner version of Chris.  It looks like they have similar hairstyles though.  <img src='http://gm-volt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_32/b4095040365207.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_32/b4095040365207.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story</a></p>
<p><a href="http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/21/chrisfarley1.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/21/chrisfarley1.jpg</a></p>
<p>At Ford, James Farley better be a good motivational speaker like Matt Foley or they might all be &#8220;sleeping in a van down by the river&#8221;.  <img src='http://gm-volt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: CDAVIS</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56618</link>
		<dc:creator>CDAVIS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56618</guid>
		<description>______________________________________________________
#85 Dave G asks me:
“Why would you want to store solar power? Over 90% of solar power systems sold are “grid tie” systems.”

My Answer:
If large solar farms can directly and efficiently produce hydrogen fuel which can then be later converted back to electricity by way of a low cost hydrogen/electric fuel cell converter, as proposed in the MIT article, then it may be economical and desirable to use such a setup as the range extender in an EREV. The advantage of hydrogen fuel cells is that they have no moving parts, can be made small and light, and makes no noise. In this regard, it trumps an ICE as a range extender. Admittedly there are some big “ifs” and would there would be several years of development required. I had earlier heard about this particular project from one of my smart VC associates but I shrugged it off as another blue sky wacky hydrogen project; now I’m intrigued after reading the published report.
______________________________________________________</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>______________________________________________________<br />
#85 Dave G asks me:<br />
“Why would you want to store solar power? Over 90% of solar power systems sold are “grid tie” systems.”</p>
<p>My Answer:<br />
If large solar farms can directly and efficiently produce hydrogen fuel which can then be later converted back to electricity by way of a low cost hydrogen/electric fuel cell converter, as proposed in the MIT article, then it may be economical and desirable to use such a setup as the range extender in an EREV. The advantage of hydrogen fuel cells is that they have no moving parts, can be made small and light, and makes no noise. In this regard, it trumps an ICE as a range extender. Admittedly there are some big “ifs” and would there would be several years of development required. I had earlier heard about this particular project from one of my smart VC associates but I shrugged it off as another blue sky wacky hydrogen project; now I’m intrigued after reading the published report.<br />
______________________________________________________</p>
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		<title>By: KC_Eric</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56607</link>
		<dc:creator>KC_Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56607</guid>
		<description>Bye-bye Ford. Nice knowing you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bye-bye Ford. Nice knowing you.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin R</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56604</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56604</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s hysterical that Ford would diss the electrification of the automobile.  No matter how you slice it, no matter how you want to look at it, gasoline powered cars are going to go the way of the &#039;rocket powered&#039; experimental cars and the model T.  It&#039;s inevitable, it&#039;s necessary, and it&#039;s time....the American and Canadian public desire it, they just can&#039;t buy them yet.  If they were in showrooms now, they would fly out of there like milk for cereal.

I say horray for GM, the Volt and the Team.....hit a home run guys and gals.....get it out soon, get them out in quantity and you&#039;ll be in first place before you can swing your bat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s hysterical that Ford would diss the electrification of the automobile.  No matter how you slice it, no matter how you want to look at it, gasoline powered cars are going to go the way of the &#8216;rocket powered&#8217; experimental cars and the model T.  It&#8217;s inevitable, it&#8217;s necessary, and it&#8217;s time&#8230;.the American and Canadian public desire it, they just can&#8217;t buy them yet.  If they were in showrooms now, they would fly out of there like milk for cereal.</p>
<p>I say horray for GM, the Volt and the Team&#8230;..hit a home run guys and gals&#8230;..get it out soon, get them out in quantity and you&#8217;ll be in first place before you can swing your bat.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy Z</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/31/ford-mass-production-of-plug-in-electric-cars-at-least-5-years-away/#comment-56598</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1191#comment-56598</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see Ford making an electric car anytime soon.  They&#039;ll make electric SUV&#039;s and pickups.  They seems to lost interest in cars somewhere around 1996.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see Ford making an electric car anytime soon.  They&#8217;ll make electric SUV&#8217;s and pickups.  They seems to lost interest in cars somewhere around 1996.</p>
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