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	<title>Comments on: Nissan CEO Ghosn: &#8220;I Don&#8217;t Want a Range Extender&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:07:32 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Thermo is Fun</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-56650</link>
		<dc:creator>Thermo is Fun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-56650</guid>
		<description>To all the genius&#039; on here who think that an EV means zero emissions...
Generating Electricity (IN MOST CASES)= Emissions, more than likely from most indications more so than burning gasoline. Sure you can get a giant PV installation on your roof etc... you&#039;re still generating carbon emissions to install transport and maintain the thing (albeit not as many)... Energy always balances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all the genius&#8217; on here who think that an EV means zero emissions&#8230;<br />
Generating Electricity (IN MOST CASES)= Emissions, more than likely from most indications more so than burning gasoline. Sure you can get a giant PV installation on your roof etc&#8230; you&#8217;re still generating carbon emissions to install transport and maintain the thing (albeit not as many)&#8230; Energy always balances.</p>
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		<title>By: Falstaff</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-56621</link>
		<dc:creator>Falstaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-56621</guid>
		<description>The pure EV play for all usage vehicles is a silly idea:
1. Quick charge comes at a cost of lifetime or energy density or both. Period.
2. The &#039;recharge centers&#039; or fill up stations for such a quick charge vehicle are not practical, they would in effect have to be mini power substations with a 10-20 MW capability, and thats for a slowish 20 min charge.  Make it 3 minutes like your current gas refill and thats a 100MW &#039;filling station&#039;.  Not going to happen.

Hence I think  &#039;range extender&#039; engines would more properly called &#039;fast refill&#039; or some such.  All electric can be made with plenty of range, but it is decades away from a quick refill.  That being the case (you cant go any distance with out stopping for the night) then the PHEV concept of ~40 miles a sound target.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pure EV play for all usage vehicles is a silly idea:<br />
1. Quick charge comes at a cost of lifetime or energy density or both. Period.<br />
2. The &#8216;recharge centers&#8217; or fill up stations for such a quick charge vehicle are not practical, they would in effect have to be mini power substations with a 10-20 MW capability, and thats for a slowish 20 min charge.  Make it 3 minutes like your current gas refill and thats a 100MW &#8216;filling station&#8217;.  Not going to happen.</p>
<p>Hence I think  &#8216;range extender&#8217; engines would more properly called &#8216;fast refill&#8217; or some such.  All electric can be made with plenty of range, but it is decades away from a quick refill.  That being the case (you cant go any distance with out stopping for the night) then the PHEV concept of ~40 miles a sound target.</p>
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		<title>By: GripperDon</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-56467</link>
		<dc:creator>GripperDon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-56467</guid>
		<description>1.Pure EV fine with me.  Simpler drive train transmission and power accessories. leaves more money for batteries. (240 &amp; 120 volt input.
2. MUST have 100 mile range with the AC ON ! and a 100 F design external temp and inside at 78 F.
3. Must be able to go 70 mph. and 0 to 60 in 15 sec max.
4. Internal volume to seat 4 ( Prius like OK )
5. Min of: 6 way Power driver seat, 6 air bags, Decent sound with aux in, power windows, non chincty interior for max of $28,000
DO this and you will out sell Prius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.Pure EV fine with me.  Simpler drive train transmission and power accessories. leaves more money for batteries. (240 &amp; 120 volt input.<br />
2. MUST have 100 mile range with the AC ON ! and a 100 F design external temp and inside at 78 F.<br />
3. Must be able to go 70 mph. and 0 to 60 in 15 sec max.<br />
4. Internal volume to seat 4 ( Prius like OK )<br />
5. Min of: 6 way Power driver seat, 6 air bags, Decent sound with aux in, power windows, non chincty interior for max of $28,000<br />
DO this and you will out sell Prius.</p>
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		<title>By: Microbatman</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-56306</link>
		<dc:creator>Microbatman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-56306</guid>
		<description>Blurred vision like this is what kills companies.

Unless he has acess to some new storage technology that we do not know about then I would be curious to know about the reasons behind his decison not to make a REV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blurred vision like this is what kills companies.</p>
<p>Unless he has acess to some new storage technology that we do not know about then I would be curious to know about the reasons behind his decison not to make a REV.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-56023</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-56023</guid>
		<description>I often travel from NY to Boston, which is a 200 mile trip for me. (Somtimes traveling to NC - 500 miles)  Without the range extender, a 100 mile range will not cut the mustard.  It would be OK for short drives or commutes, but the U.S. is large and many people drive over 100 miles often.  Nissan is limiting sales potential.
GM is smart to have the range extender engine on the Volt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often travel from NY to Boston, which is a 200 mile trip for me. (Somtimes traveling to NC &#8211; 500 miles)  Without the range extender, a 100 mile range will not cut the mustard.  It would be OK for short drives or commutes, but the U.S. is large and many people drive over 100 miles often.  Nissan is limiting sales potential.<br />
GM is smart to have the range extender engine on the Volt.</p>
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		<title>By: parakiller</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-55874</link>
		<dc:creator>parakiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-55874</guid>
		<description>But really...I cannot take anything these guys have to say seriously since there is so much posturing and politicing for the peoples perceptions...I will believe it when I see it.  

Dan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But really&#8230;I cannot take anything these guys have to say seriously since there is so much posturing and politicing for the peoples perceptions&#8230;I will believe it when I see it.  </p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>By: parakiller</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-55873</link>
		<dc:creator>parakiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-55873</guid>
		<description>Is it just me or does the nissan CEO look like some sort of undead vampire?  Creepy eyes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it just me or does the nissan CEO look like some sort of undead vampire?  Creepy eyes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-55660</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-55660</guid>
		<description>Mr. Peterson #175 raises an interesting issue about wind driven grid instability that I suppose also could appliy to solar (because clouds pass overhead on sunny days).  Here&#039;s a link to a report from the third party test of the prototype Altairnano 2MW grid stabilizing battery installation at an Indianapolis Power &amp; Light substation sponsored by the AES Corporation.

http://www.b2i.cc/Document/546/KEMA_Carina_validation_report_public_final.pdf

Long story short, the batteries work well going from full charge to full discharge and back with sub second response and minimal heating achieving &gt;90% efficiency at a .96% power factor.  If further experience with clustered installations is equally favorable, this will be how power producers stabilize the grid having mega-batteries installed at substations and at wind/solar sites.  Because their use eliminates the need for an &quot;active reserve&quot; (excess generation done to maintain voltage and cycling standards during periods of sharp increases in demand) that&#039;s mostly wasted as heat, utilities will achieve a 3% reduction in fuel cost that means these comparatively expensive batteries will, nevertheless, pay back in months and last for years.

Altair batteries owe their unmatched power handling and long life to a chemistry and architecture that results in a vanishingly low internal resistance (comparable to a gold to gold switch contact).  It appears that because they have an extended Depth of Discharge capability, a 12kwh Altairnano battery could match the performance of an 18kwh A123 battery in the Volt, just about overcoming the apparent energy density shortfall.  When Altairnano decides to commit to more automated production methods to bring the price down, these would become a fine choice for any PHEV - until then, Made in the USA and a 3% emissions reduction for power producers aren&#039;t all bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Peterson #175 raises an interesting issue about wind driven grid instability that I suppose also could appliy to solar (because clouds pass overhead on sunny days).  Here&#8217;s a link to a report from the third party test of the prototype Altairnano 2MW grid stabilizing battery installation at an Indianapolis Power &amp; Light substation sponsored by the AES Corporation.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.b2i.cc/Document/546/KEMA_Carina_validation_report_public_final.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.b2i.cc/Document/546/KEMA_Carina_validation_report_public_final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Long story short, the batteries work well going from full charge to full discharge and back with sub second response and minimal heating achieving &gt;90% efficiency at a .96% power factor.  If further experience with clustered installations is equally favorable, this will be how power producers stabilize the grid having mega-batteries installed at substations and at wind/solar sites.  Because their use eliminates the need for an &#8220;active reserve&#8221; (excess generation done to maintain voltage and cycling standards during periods of sharp increases in demand) that&#8217;s mostly wasted as heat, utilities will achieve a 3% reduction in fuel cost that means these comparatively expensive batteries will, nevertheless, pay back in months and last for years.</p>
<p>Altair batteries owe their unmatched power handling and long life to a chemistry and architecture that results in a vanishingly low internal resistance (comparable to a gold to gold switch contact).  It appears that because they have an extended Depth of Discharge capability, a 12kwh Altairnano battery could match the performance of an 18kwh A123 battery in the Volt, just about overcoming the apparent energy density shortfall.  When Altairnano decides to commit to more automated production methods to bring the price down, these would become a fine choice for any PHEV &#8211; until then, Made in the USA and a 3% emissions reduction for power producers aren&#8217;t all bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-55533</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 02:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-55533</guid>
		<description>$40,000 for the Volt? 4 or 5 months ago it was $30K .What will it be in two years, $60K? People will say that they never have to fill up but they won&#039;t tell you that they pay $700 a month on a car payment. Someone will come up with a basic all electric car that can travel 50 miles and not cost a fortune!  Will it be the Chinese with a $14000 car. I could by 3 for the price of Volt! Doesn&#039;t anyone realize how simple and cheap electric motors really are? And GM will wonder why the Volt isn&#039;t selling. Then they will ask the US government to bail them out. Serves them right for killing the first EV!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$40,000 for the Volt? 4 or 5 months ago it was $30K .What will it be in two years, $60K? People will say that they never have to fill up but they won&#8217;t tell you that they pay $700 a month on a car payment. Someone will come up with a basic all electric car that can travel 50 miles and not cost a fortune!  Will it be the Chinese with a $14000 car. I could by 3 for the price of Volt! Doesn&#8217;t anyone realize how simple and cheap electric motors really are? And GM will wonder why the Volt isn&#8217;t selling. Then they will ask the US government to bail them out. Serves them right for killing the first EV!!!</p>
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		<title>By: stas peterson</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/25/nissan-ceo-ghosn-i-dont-want-a-range-extender/#comment-55522</link>
		<dc:creator>stas peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 01:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1180#comment-55522</guid>
		<description>BEVs are niche vehicles and always will be until ranges approach a few hundred miles.

The 1.4 l  non turbo turns out  to have a lower SFC and actually weighs LESS than a on older I3-turbo design. Great engineering  decision GM.  You had the balls to do the right thing. Just like chopping the gas tank size to prevent lots of stale gas, was the right thing to do, too.

Regarding Mr. T Boone Pickens.

Yes he has an isolated set of windmills in a Utility in the outback  of East Cupcake  whereever Texas. 

His  mini-grid  is unstable and frequently crashes.  He desperately needs to tie into  a Big Grid to damp out  the oscillations produced by variable, gusting, wind generation,  so his mini-grid will stabilize. 

And of course, given the right of way, you grant him, well then ,you may as well build a  pipeline to bring  to market some stranded Natural gas, that he happens to have too.

Only green know-nothings don&#039;t anticipate any problems with their solar and windmill solutions.  

The UK electric utility that runs 2000 windmills says theirs wear out and are junk in 9 years.  And only work 24.% of the time. It seems you can&#039;t run them when wind is too low (less than 8 mph) and too strong, (greater than 33mph) or at all, if they destabilize the grid.  And when they do operate, seldom do they run at nameplate rated generation, because the  wind isn&#039;t blowing exactly that hard. 

Did you ever wonder why the early electricity guys  back in the 1880-90s, never hooked up generators to the windmills they already had, back in those  early days?  And  it wasn&#039;t  a Big Oil conspiracy. They did build hydroelectric generation, after all.

They just were not as ignorant  as pseudo-green know-nothings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BEVs are niche vehicles and always will be until ranges approach a few hundred miles.</p>
<p>The 1.4 l  non turbo turns out  to have a lower SFC and actually weighs LESS than a on older I3-turbo design. Great engineering  decision GM.  You had the balls to do the right thing. Just like chopping the gas tank size to prevent lots of stale gas, was the right thing to do, too.</p>
<p>Regarding Mr. T Boone Pickens.</p>
<p>Yes he has an isolated set of windmills in a Utility in the outback  of East Cupcake  whereever Texas. </p>
<p>His  mini-grid  is unstable and frequently crashes.  He desperately needs to tie into  a Big Grid to damp out  the oscillations produced by variable, gusting, wind generation,  so his mini-grid will stabilize. </p>
<p>And of course, given the right of way, you grant him, well then ,you may as well build a  pipeline to bring  to market some stranded Natural gas, that he happens to have too.</p>
<p>Only green know-nothings don&#8217;t anticipate any problems with their solar and windmill solutions.  </p>
<p>The UK electric utility that runs 2000 windmills says theirs wear out and are junk in 9 years.  And only work 24.% of the time. It seems you can&#8217;t run them when wind is too low (less than 8 mph) and too strong, (greater than 33mph) or at all, if they destabilize the grid.  And when they do operate, seldom do they run at nameplate rated generation, because the  wind isn&#8217;t blowing exactly that hard. </p>
<p>Did you ever wonder why the early electricity guys  back in the 1880-90s, never hooked up generators to the windmills they already had, back in those  early days?  And  it wasn&#8217;t  a Big Oil conspiracy. They did build hydroelectric generation, after all.</p>
<p>They just were not as ignorant  as pseudo-green know-nothings.</p>
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