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GM Considers Chevy Volt Plant in England

July 24th, 2008 | Posted in: Opel, Production

Not only is the Volt planned for America, but it has been clear from the start that the Volt will be a global vehicle. We are already aware the Volt will be built in Detroit for US consumption. Now there is news GM is looking to build a Volt plant overseas as well.

Reports out of London suggest GM is studying Vauxhall’s Ellesmere Port plant on Merseyside as the possible European Chevy Volt assembly plant.

This information came from GM European President Carl-Peter Forester who also recently met with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Forester further suggested that the Volt could be built under all three European brands, Chevrolet, Opel, and Vauxhall. He said he wasn’t worried about branding identity problems, just that he wanted to get the cars out to as many dealers as possible.

He noted that the Flextreme design wouldn’t be part of the first generation of cars, which, built in America, will hit Europe either in late 2011 or 2012.

Forester also indicated that the first European E-Flex vehicles would cost about €40,000, and says "we won’t make a cent of profit on that €40,000," citing high battery price as the reason profiting would be difficult.

He floated the idea of having European utility companies finance the batteries at subsidized rates and then selling the electricity.

On a related note, Prime Minister Brown also announced a plan for the British government to provide £90 million over the next 5 years to help, among other things, build an electric car charging infrastructure on "thousands" of British streets.

Source (Financial Times ) and (just-auto, subscription )

Posted by: Lyle

97 Responses to “GM Considers Chevy Volt Plant in England”

Joe OBrien Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

Amazing, only two more years of daily checking this site.

Whoa,

I think I’m 1st on this comment for once.

Yeah!

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Bob C Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

My question is about volume. If the first year is about 10,000 units, how will they be apportioned between the U.S. and Europe?

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

They have a winner this time. Now the Brits will enjoy the Volt as well. Thanks for the update Lyle. Go Volt Go GM. TED

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kent beuchert Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Isn’t the Euro pegged at about 1.5 dollars these days? And he expects to not make a profit at 40,000 euros? Are we talking a $60,000 car here, or am I missing something? That can’t be true.

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nuclearboy Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

This is great news. If GM could get this thing going in Europe too, the Volt would be a world-wide phenom. England is also seriously looking at Nuc plants. Electric cars would be good too.

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jes Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

“He floated the idea of having European utility companies finance the batteries at subsidized rates and then selling the electricity.”

On a different website, there was mention of charging overnight with errattic, stronger Wind power at night and using that same electricity to ease the strain on the grid at work.

If connections to the grid become commonplace at home and work AND electric companies finance the battery (or pay the difference btwn an PHEV, EREV or EV and it’s ICE counterpart), then I would not mind using my car for buffering unpredictable renewable energy and possibly paying for gasoline to get back home. But I am not paying a E-REV, EV or PHEV price just to use gasoline.

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Edward Ellyatt SR Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

My family awaits more news on the Volt. Hope it becomes a reality soon.

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Jim Rowland Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

“Flextreme” is what caught my attention. Is that the same as e-flex?

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

Don’t forget that England’s vehicle taxes and fees are very high, adding to the final purchase price of the vehicle.

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Edward Ellyatt SR Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

We believe !!!! I’ve even put SOME money in GM stock. not a lot, but SOME. Just surfing, hoping a wave will come along

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Tyson S Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

#4 I’ve noticed that as well. There is no way the european built version would cost 20k more, the volt is already quoted at 40k by bob in the usa. It’s probably a marketing plow about how they are doing everyone a favor… which really they are if its true.

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Aspherical Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

#1 Joe OBrien

“Amazing, only two more years of daily checking this site.”

LOL.

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Ed M Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

Looks like everyones going green these days, here’s an interesting article you may enjoy reading.

http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_t/Tata_Motors/20080724_tata_motors.html

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Volt Ampere Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

Are those Volt-only charging stations. So far it looks like each EV manufacturer is using different charging connector plugs and different voltage levels. Either these are volt-only or they have to be mighty flexible stations (i.e. variable voltage/amperage + assortment of vendor-specific adapters). These could get messy with dozens of makers on their way. yuck.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

Why build a plant in England? Now they have to ship the cars across the English channel to get to the main land. I would think it would be cheaper to build the plant in Europe proper.

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Joe Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

I know the site listed below is not quite related to the topic, but I do know the big concerned of the high price of the Volt. Take this article for what it’s worth. After looking better at the article, i find it a bit out dated.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/saturn-vue-two-mode-…/

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

From the article:

This information came from GM European President Carl-Peter Forester who also recently met with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Forester further suggested that the Volt could be built under all three European brands, Chevrolet, Opel, and Vauxhall. He said he wasn’t worried about branding identity problems, just that he wanted to get the cars out to as many dealers as possible.

I agree with getting the cars out to as many dealers as possible.
But the USA and Canada have a larger market than Europe.
Why not get the Volt out to as many dealers as possible here as well?

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The Voice Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

I’ve been looking forward to purchasing a Volt or Flextreme, whichever hits Europe first. If they can’t make a cent of profit out of €40,000, how will they make anything out of $40,000? I can buy a Prius for €27,000 tomorrow, and even though prices are high, €13,000 will buy a lot of petrol.

However it is not until these cars actually hit the showrooms will the price be definitively known. I’d say the price of automotive batteries will drop substantially over the coming decade, with increased production. Maybe I’ll wait till the second generation of Volts arrive.

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

We need three Volts in Fort Myers. I don’t care where the rest of them go. I suspect they will have a battery plant there as well it only makes sense. The more they make the better the profit will be. Go GM. Now get me my VOLT. TED

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Grizzly Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

#18

Depending on how the next two years pan out, they may even have to take a loss on initial units. I doubt they will, but the final price will depend on a number of things and we’re still 2 years away.

BTW, the article does say “studying” so this isn’t concrete yet.

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Paul-R Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

I wonder what the “Top Gear” boys in England will have to say about the Vauxhall Volt. Generally they love to hate things from the USA. For example, the CTS-V:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2HEn-oQXzU

And the Vette Z06:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTuIf_5_bv4

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Frankie Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

Look at it this way, even if I can’t get an e-flex soon the demand for gasoline will start to drop as soon as these are mass produced. (in USA or overseas) They will help lower gas prices even for the folks who are stuck driving an ice only car. Then hopefully I will be able to afford a used one when they become available.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

Frankie, #22. I’m not so sure. Right now, there is enough supply to meet demand, but the price of gas is hardly moving. I think it dropped 4¢ last week. Hardly enough at the current price of $4.36 per gallon to matter.
I have to think, like you, they won’t have a choice. But I think they will figure out a way to keep it high.

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Koz Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

#6 JES
“If connections to the grid become commonplace at home and work AND electric companies finance the battery (or pay the difference btwn an PHEV, EREV or EV and it’s ICE counterpart), then I would not mind using my car for buffering unpredictable renewable energy and possibly paying for gasoline to get back home.”

This is subtle but could be HUGE. V2G functionality has been discussed for years and has been brought up numerous times on this site. Also, the possibilty of the Utilities being involved in leasing the battery as you mention. I have not seen the two ideas tied together before and it makes SOOO much sense on SOOO many levels. GM has said V2G is being contemplated but would not be part of GEN1 Volts. This will probably be the case regardless of what happens, but I think the smart utilities will jump on this idea. Just on first thought it will:
-Reduce vehicle owner cost substantially
-Provide an excellent path to valuable V2G functionality
-Known reliable storage would be locked in, in advance for the utilities as they would retain the batteries off lease for their use
-Utilities will be greatly incentivized to install or air the installation of charging at workplaces.

The synergy is fantastic. By the way, before the naysayers scream “WHOAAA…charging during the day is the worst thing that could happen”, remember this will happen gradually over time. The proliferation of EV’s in this manner will be occurring at the same time as intermittent energy production is being ramped up. Utilities could control their addition of intermittent generation to coincide with EV’s adoption. It is a WIN, WIN, WIN!!!!

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Hype Master Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

No doubt GM is a master of hype, not only the battery technology is insufficient, but GM is close to chapter 7 (their equity is less than zero for years) and they simply can’t sell their j**k SUV, trucks and they are doomed. America need rational peopple, not someone like Bob Lutz who can’t do anything but hype, he is a salesperson with little understanding of what people really want, his words are nonsense and often stupid. I hope ford can replace GM and become the dominant company in this country! Chrysler is near death, GM is not far away. God bless those poor souls in Michigan.

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kubel Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

I agree. It’s hype until we start seeing Volts being produced. I think the only reason they are so transparent recently with their Volt and other car development is because they want to restore consumer confidence that if they buy a new car, there will still be a GM to back up the cars warranty.

I’m worried GM won’t last two more years, and the idea of the Volt will go down with them.

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Kaido Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

WTF?! 40000 EUR?! This s**t is just unbelivable!

Prius costs 25000$ in the US.
Prius costs 40000$ in Europe.

Volt is promised to cost some 40000$ in the US
Volt is promised to cost 40000 EUR = 60000$ in Europe.

Now this is just soooooo unfair.
I’m thinking of buying a Prius from the US and import it here so that I can just take a giant dump on the car manufacturers pricing policies…

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Grizzly Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

Rashiid #23

I’ve got to wonder what OPEC will do when the Volt is near launch, or post launch. As people are very sensitive and seem to revert quickly when the price of oil goes down, I’ve got to believe that OPEC will do it’s best to dampen demand by tightening it’s belt and drastically lowering the price. That plus the electric utilities eager to gouge could really be a bad thing. Let’s hope we’ll have some sort of policy that assures we stay on the right track.

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Ed H Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

Voice 18

Everyone’s trepidation over the price of the car vs the cost of fuel saved is understandable. Just don’t forget that this is NOT the only reason for purchasing the Volt or any of its future family members. Kicking the oil addiction, improving the environment, improving our geopolitical reliances, etc all go into the “reason for purchase” file.

If, as it seems, you are from “across the pond” it may be possible to pressure your government to lighten the taxes on vehicles like the Volt. We’re hoping for the same over here.

My other move to lessen the impact of the cost of the Volt was to purchase some GM stock when it is at it’s current low cost. When the Volt comes out and leads the world into this new paradigm the stock will significantly improve. This piggybank will be the payback for our years of following the progress on this project and having faith in the company. Almost a legal insider trading move. No promises but its an option.

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noel park Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

#24 Koz:

Makes sense to me. Thanks for a very positive and hopeful vision. It’s exactly what we need here to keep our spirits up while we check this site daily for 2 more years. Even if I do get a bit negative at times myself.

#25 Hype Master:

Ford?????? Did you see their financials today? I share everybody’s concerns about GM, but I can’t see how Ford is in any better shape, maybe worse.

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bruce g Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

I think GM is getting a lot of political mileage out of this Volt and some of the pricing statements are oportunistic to say the least.

I stiil think the market will dictate the value as mid thirty thousand US dollars. (Because of Nissans and Mitsubishi’s efforts).

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Dave B Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Noel @ 30,

Yep, I agree with you about Ford. Time for them to cut a deal with Fisker, Tesla, among others, and get their heads out of the sand.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

#25 Hype Master
Your hype-fu pales in comparison to GM’s. Bob Lutz does understand what people really want – the Volt! He is getting international attention. He’s got Joe OBrien checking this site daily. You are no match.

If battery technology is insufficient, GM is not the only company hyping it. I think there is more than just hype/words going on. The evidence keeps mounting; cars are going electric. This is not the EV-1 era redux.

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bruce g Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

“GM is studying Vauxhall’s Ellesmere Port plant.”
I had a good laugh over that. Dammit, they have probably owned it for the past thirty years. What have they been doing?

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Jeff M Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

What will be interesting to know is if the Volt, with it’s “range extender”, will qualify for various breaks that EV’s get now. Such as I believe EV’s are excempt from the “congesition” fees in downtown London, free parking too I think….

Argh… doing a quick google it looks like this month the Brits are phasing out some of those breaks, see http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/content/news/ …. appears EV’s are too popular and actually contributing to more congestion.

The Volt at the prices quoted will be a tough sell to at least city dwellers in the UK… look at the G-Wiz for under 7,000 british pounds… goes up to 45mph and 50 miles/charge…. http://tinyurl.com/5v4tbq

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bruce g Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 7:05 pm

I guess that is political speak for “if you give us massive subsidies we may assemble the chevy cruz here….sorry, I mean…chevy volt…”

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noel park Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

#28 Grizzly:

There is a really interesting commentary in the new Automobile magazine about $4/gal being a “tipping point” for the public’s attitude about fuel economy. It shows the almost instantaneous demotion fo the F150 from most popular vehicle in the US, and its replacement by the Honda Civic. I would like to think that this price shock has gotten the public’s attention to the point that they are not going to fall for the old drop the price back for awhile and then jack it up again even higher tactics. Sorry to keep repeating myself, but “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.” I know I’m not going back.

#33 ThombDbhomb:

While I can curb my enthusiasm for Mr. Lutz, I totally agree with you about electric cars. I found the “Plug-in 2008″ conference extremely encouraging. I was impressed that Mr. Mike Harrigan of Coulomb is following GM-Volt. You are right without a doubt. It is going to happen.

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Grizzly Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

Noel #37

I agree. This is why I think it’s important, and GM realizes this, that the Volt both look good and perform well. Personally I don’t think that Americans are as accepting of small EVs like the imev and Zenn as other parts of the world. We’ve grown accustomed to larger more luxurious and utilitarian vehicles.

Hopefully if the Volt performs as planned, and is accepted it will breathe new life into the US auto industry. Hopefully as a nation we won’t have to say “shame on me”.

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Tim Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

The way I see it, the more places the Volt is, the less oil will be used there. Whether that is here in the USA or across the pond in Europe it will help the supply issue and environmental one.

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nitpicker Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

On the bottom of the posts page is a copyright notice.
It would be nice form if the year given was 2008, instead of (or in addition to) 2007.

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Tim Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

#28

The beauty of the Volt is that it is not tied down to one energy source. If electricity is cheaper – it uses it. If gasoline is cheaper – it uses it. If e85 is cheaper – it uses it. So basically you have a car that gives you choices. Now no matter where oil prices are at you could use gas and get great mileage.

I think the biggest selling point of the Volt is not that it is an electric car but that it is a car that gives you choices when it comes to fueling or powering up. That’s something OPEC can’t counter.

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Hype Master Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

# 33 ThombDbhomb

>>If battery technology is insufficient, GM is not the only company hyping it. I think there is more than just hype/words going on.

Really??? Toyota is very cautious about EV/PHEV (remember Toyota has an active battery R&D team, GM has very few and has to resort to outside for help), Honda simply not interested due to the technical difficulty. Yes, Nissan and Mitsubishi does hype, but NOT near the way GM hype it, reading Bob and GM comments, you would believe GM will dominate in the next 50 years, well, I tell you that GM has promised many wonderful things in the past, very few were really delivered.
No one can hype as Americans, no auto company can hype as General motors, no CEO/VP can hype as Wagoner/Lutz, and no big business can eventually fail as General Motors. Laukner, Lutz, Boniface, Gray, Wagoner, Burns, you folks are the laughing materials in Toyota headquarter, Toyoda City, Japan. Hyundai is their no. 1 competitor, no your GM.

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canehdian Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 8:45 pm

“Personally I don’t think that Americans are as accepting of small EVs like the imev and Zenn as other parts of the world. We’ve grown accustomed to larger more luxurious and utilitarian vehicles.”

Zenn would make a killing if they’d put a more powerful motor in there and let it get to at least 80km/h. It currently tops @ 40-50 I think.
Then you couldn’t do freeway, but its a low cost city/main highway car (most max @ 80km/h here)

Once they do that, they’d be legal to sell anywhere (they’re not allowed in most parts of canada because of the low speed max they have – would obstruct traffic by going 40 on a road that’s 50/60)

Once people tried it and used zero gas to get to work for a mere 12,000 CDN – they wouldn’t mind that they can’t fit 6 people and a full set of circus animals in the back.

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Grizzly Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

42

Folks,

P.D.F.T.T.

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Statik Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 9:02 pm

It was my understanding that the first gen was always to be a limited North America run. Then gen 2 would be produced in Europe exclusively.

Pricing a 40,000 euros seems right, you get a nice premium over there right now…easier to see how GM makes money there (and Ford today–585 million).

This is probably a bi-product of GM cutting Antwerp to shreds (along with the 3 billion dollar investment) that was supposed to go to extend the ‘Astra’/new platform/flex line past 2010.

They are now looking to just expand operations at existing plants on the cheap. They go to places like Mereyside (England) and tell them to give them some sweet concessions and cash (in this case about 180 million US, leniency on taxes and wages). And when they do, (and because they are such a good corporate citizen) they will not only not cut the laboUr force they will expand it.

Everyone in Mereyside is happy to actually have a little more production, big parades, etc…everyone in Belgium is ticked that all their kickbacks and promises have been chewed up.

/large manufacturing Business 101

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CDAVIS Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

______________________________________________________
Off Topic,

“Grid can handle influx of electric cars”

CNN Article July 24th, 2008
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/07/23/electriccars.grid.ap/index.html
______________________________________________________

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Picupsticks Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

Hype or not I believe Volt will be a big hit. Just because Toyota has not decided to go this route with their products does not mean GM won’t pull it off. They are just sticking with what is making them money and there is no need for them to change or take such a risk! GM definitely has something here and I am betting that they will be setting the standards for all others to follow.

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omegaman66 Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

Wow 27 post before anyone commented on the 20,000 extra dollars it will cost in Europe!!!

Can’t wait for my air car! Cheap and refilling could be done much quicker than charging. Less weight in the motor.

Just waiting for someone to step up and deliver an affordable non-gas car.

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Frankie Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

Air car physics are crap for American roads!! It’s made of plastic for gods sake! No A/C No heat! c’mon I could build a go-kart with an air impact for a motor and call it a ‘green air car’ and non-car non-physics people would be all over it. Hell for that matter I could just build you a steam car and it could be powered by water and beanie babies. The only thing is you would not want it because it would not have leather heated as* warming seats while the a/c was on high and the ipod was connected!!!! ELECTRIC CARS ARE REAL! PEOPLE DRIVE THEM EVERYDAY RIGHT NOW!!! Air powered cars are a joke….. it will never happen! 40 miles minimum with a steel body and A/C! TATA AIR CAR IS BONDED PLASTIC w/no A/C and will never meet strict american crash standards.

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Cautious Fan Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

I’m excited that GM is sending these cars around the world. Current oil prices are high, not because of supply shortage, but because the speculators see a supply/demand crunch coming down the road. When the global public starts to fall in love with these vehicles, the speculative markup on oil prices will take an immediate hit and our gas will get cheaper before millions of these are even out. Simply the perception of change in future demand will benefit prices today. And since I probably won’t be able to buy an EREV until 2015 or so, that’s good news for me.

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Cautious Fan Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

This is off topic, but didn’t the EV1 have a concept where it pulled a small trailer with the range extender? I think it’d be cool to have an all electric, reasonably quick charging car with 100 mile range or so. For the 7 or 8 times a year where I need the extender, I go lease it for the weekend and pull it behind my car and run a power cable up to my car. This would eliminate maintenance, reduce the vehicle cost by 7 or 8k, cut vehicle weight (increasing range). Babysteps though. Once the public accepts electric cars maybe we’ll get there.

I could swear I remember reading about this concept someplace. Does anyone have a link?

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Jim I Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

Personally, I hope GM gets about fifty plants producing E-REV vehicles. And 50 more each for Ford and Chrysler and Toyota and Hyundai and Saab and Mercedes and Volkwagon etc etc etc. If you want electric transportation to be accepted “by the masses”, then you need to have high production volumes of multiple vehicle types.

Of course for this to work, we need reliable, high power, long life battery packs to be rolling off the assembly lines by the millions.

And then we need about 100 plants to produce low cost nano solar PV cells, so that there will be enough capacity for people to install inexpensive solar arrays on their homes.

The sooner we get this planet away from using fossil based fuels for transportation, the better we all will be!

But to make all this happen, we need those first Volts on the road to prove that the idea really works. They will be the first small step in changing our world. And not only will we get to see that change, hopefully we get to be a part of it!!

We just have to get through the next 28 months………

GO GM VOLT TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Frankie Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

#51 look up ev-1 on wikipedia

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Ed M Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

bruce g #34

The UK governments giveth and taketh away again. Everything over there is subsidized isn’t it ? School, health care, prisons, crazy frog you name it.
Why not an auto assembly plant ? Usually the countries that give the best subsidies get the manufacturing plants. The UK could use some industry.

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Jim I Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

Paul R #21: The Top Gear boys REALLY hated the Chrysler Crossfire…. But mine has been a great vehicle for me!

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bruce g Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

#54 Ed,
Merseyside already have an assembly plant. GM does’nt have a Volt, just a mockup of what a Volt might look like.
GM campaigning about a car that it doesnt have is getting too close to the emperor not having any clothes.
Perhaps they should produce a few first?

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ThombDbhomb Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 12:23 am

#56 bruce g

Emperor not having any clothes? I thought we had a Volt in Malibu clothing.

Prototypes before production.

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Rob Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 12:31 am

You can buy Smart EV in the U.K. for £15,000 ($29,840). It goes 60 mph and has a range of up to 65 miles. Who is going to buy Volt for twice the price?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/24/video-guernsey-smart-ev-gets-tested/

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bruce g Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 2:16 am

#57ThombDbhomb,
Yes there is a malibu masquerading as a Volt. I will feel more comfortable when the battery manufacturer is announced.
Many a slip twixt cup and lip…etc…etc..etc…

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Dave G Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 5:33 am

#27 Kaido
#48 omegaman66

These price differences have to do with the sinking value of the U.S. dollar.

Back in 2002, $1 was worth 1.15 Euros. Now, $1 is worth 0.63 Euros. So the US dollar has lost almost 1/2 it’s value in 6 years!

With each dollar being worth half as much, it’s no wonder prices are different.

By the way, the low value of the dollar also has a lot to do with the high price of oil, most of which is imported.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 5:39 am

Rob, #58. says,
You can buy Smart EV in the U.K. for £15,000 ($29,840). It goes 60 mph and has a range of up to 65 miles. Who is going to buy Volt for twice the price?

——

The Volt has an endless range. I could drive it from Coast to Coast here in North America, or drive it from the northern tip of Sweden to the southern tip of Italy. I would just need to put gas in it and get 50 MPG for the whole trip. At night, I could plug it in and the next day go the first 40 miles on electric only.

The Smart EV runs out at 65 miles and then what is the driver to do? Battery technology stinks today. Until it can have a range of hundreds of miles and charge in 5 minutes, the EREV is the only answer.

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Jim I Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 6:54 am

Dave G #60:

I will not argue your conversions, but your conclusions seem backwards to me.

If the value of the Euro is more, then it should cost LESS Euros to buy something of the same value.

If the Volt will cost 40,000 in US Dollars then the Volt should cost
25,408.39 Euros at this morning’s exchange rate of 1.57428 Euros to 1 US Dollar.

So what is the real reason that cars cost more in Europe?

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koz Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 6:54 am

#51 Cautious Fan
“This is off topic, but didn’t the EV1 have a concept where it pulled a small trailer with the range extender? I think it’d be cool to have an all electric, reasonably quick charging car with 100 mile range or so. For the 7 or 8 times a year where I need the extender, I go lease it for the weekend and pull it behind my car and run a power cable up to my car. This would eliminate maintenance, reduce the vehicle cost by 7 or 8k, cut vehicle weight (increasing range). ”

AC Propulsion made a range extending trailer. This is the ideal solution for ME, except I would purchase the RE trailer. For those in hurricane prone areas this would double as a great home power backup solution. Everyone has their own driving needs and won’t work for some. For, and in reality for many, a 120 mile range, trailer hitch, rear charging port, and aero trailered genset would be great. Some people won’t be comfortable towing a trailer or they regularly need more range, so they could buy an EREV or rent the few times a year range is needed. The more options that are available, the faster EV’s will penetrate the market.

I don’t agree that battery tech “stinks today” as Rashid suggests, but price needs to come down 25% for reasonable affordability. This should happen with volume. I think a bigger issue is that public perception stinks more. EV’s have to hit the road to make big difference in this.

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Dave G Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:09 am

#62 Jim I,

European Volts will be built in Europe, so the price makes sense.

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THOM Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:18 am

GM needs to get the vehicle out there, then work on the rest of it. Why would you building multiple assembly plants for a vehicle that does not exist!
.

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Mitch Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:21 am

#34 bruce g

umm they are “studying” that plant makes sense, if you work with multiple manufacturing sites, and that plant makes a good product now..you need to determine if it is capable of the additional manufacturing without affecting current lines. Workers and possibly the unions would need to talk about it, descriptions etc…location, can it meet expected demand..about a couple hundred things pop into my mind aout “studying” the plant.

so what if they own it…sorry , your statement was really kinda dumb..

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JEC Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:31 am

62 Jim

You are converting wrong.

If the exchange rate is 1.5 Euro/dollar, then 20,000 dollars * 1.5 Euro/dollar = 30,000 Euro. As my old prof. used to say, “look at the units”

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Brad G Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:38 am

#28 Grizzly
I’ve got to wonder what OPEC will do when the Volt is near launch, or post launch. As people are very sensitive and seem to revert quickly when the price of oil goes down, I’ve got to believe that OPEC will do it’s best to dampen demand by tightening it’s belt and drastically lowering the price. That plus the electric utilities eager to gouge could really be a bad thing. Let’s hope we’ll have some sort of policy that assures we stay on the right track.
=====================
I don’t think prices will drop on oil even with release of the Volt. Maybe as EV’s replace ICEV’s and demand drops then the price will come down, but this will take 10 years starting in 2010. The most important thing about the Volt is it is the start of the EV revolution, and enegry independence.

Enegry independence means we are not affected in the US when some Arab sitting in his diamond encrusted Mercedes eatting his camel McNuggets decides to cut production.

We can keep our dollars here. We will create enegry jobs here. Every morning our economy won’t depend on what happened in the Middle East last night.

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JEC Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:38 am

#61 Rashiid Amul

“The Smart EV runs out at 65 miles and then what is the driver to do? Battery technology stinks today. Until it can have a range of hundreds of miles and charge in 5 minutes, the EREV is the only answer.”

Don’t paint with such a wide brush. I think many people would buy a vehicle like this if the price is right. As stated by GM, the average mileage put on a car per day is less than 40 miles, so 65 would be even better.

While the Volt will be the solution for many, these pure electrics will also be the solution for many, and probably many more than a Volt, if they actually build them.

If they can make a certain price point, it become economical to buy a car as a pure commuter/short trip car. Then you keep that Ford Expedition garaged until you need that family vacation.

I like options, and the pure EV is likely my option.

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NorthernPiker Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 7:55 am

The pricing of the Volt is becoming a game with various possible objectives:

1. Management of customer expectations,
2. Management of shareholder expectations of financial responsibility; GM cannot afford to price the Volt down the learning curve, which should be steep,
2. Eliciting substantial government subsidies, and
3. Greenwashing, i.e., price the Volt out of the market (while decreasing value to customer – shrink gas tank due to space limitations and then add a larger engine).

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RB Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:01 am

#67 JEC says
“If the exchange rate is 1.5 Euro/dollar, then 20,000 dollars * 1.5 Euro/dollar = 30,000 Euro. As my old prof. used to say, ‘look at the units’ ”

Are the numbers wrong? Perhaps the numbers should be restated in this way

If the exchange rate is 0.75 Euro/dollar, then 20,000 dollars * 0.75 Euro/dollar = 15,000 Euro. As my old prof. used to say, “look at the units

That is, it seems that at the present time each dollar buys only a fraction of a Euro.

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Mitch Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:18 am

#67 JEC

Incorrect, the ratio is not 1.5 euro to the dollar, 1 euro buys $1.50 US so 20000 E = $15000.

Sorry but the Euro is stronger than the greenback

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Morgan Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:19 am

Regarding the Euro-Volt pricing.

its not as simple as a currency transaction based on current currency rates. Unless they are shipping the entire Volt components over there to build from the States that is and paying their workers in dollars.

You have suppliers who are paid in Euros (or pounds sterling), Suppliers who are paid in Euros who in turn pay their workers in Euros…etc etc on down the chain.

Until GM moves that bottom line profit/expense to US Dollars the exchange rate does not provide a benefit. Now, if GM were manufacturing the Volt in the US and exporting it to Europe…THEN you could expect a cheaper Euro Volt.

This is why a free falling dollar could impact Japanese auto makers manufacturing in the US. That money all goes back to Japan at the end of the day and is impacted by currency exchange rates.

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NZDavid Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:27 am

Cars will cost more in the EU due to TAXES. Same in NZ.

/sigh.

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JEC Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:31 am

72 Mitch

Opps…right, the Euro is stronger than the dollar.

Maybe it was just wishful thinking : )

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N Riley Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:41 am

To take a theme from the “Drill Now, Drill Every Where” mantra, I say build them now, build them every where.

The more assembly plants GM have, the faster the adoption to electric vehicles and the faster we reduce the money going to sand land.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:46 am

JEC # 69 says,
Don’t paint with such a wide brush. I think many people would buy a vehicle like this if the price is right. As stated by GM, the average mileage put on a car per day is less than 40 miles, so 65 would be even better.

———-
Yup, you are right. I was thinking of a one car household. Having an EV and another car that was an ICE or EREV, one could argue that the Smart EV is a good choice.

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N Riley Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:51 am

It’s a pipe dream to think the electric companies might consider financing the battery to be able to sell more electricity. I don’t see that happening in the U.S. Maybe in Europe or Asia. Not our electric companies. There are too many of them over here. No way to get them to agree to pour out billions up front to finance the batteries. Most of these electric companies want the rate payers to pay up front to get new plants built. That is what is happening now in Mississippi. We have a new nuclear unit on the books at our nuclear plant in Port Gibson plus a petroleum fuel-fired plant in South Mississippi. The Legislature has passed a law allowing the two utilities to start charging an increased rate now while the two facilities are being drawn up and constructed. The shareholders don’t want to foot the bill to build the plants, then figure out the charging rates to pay for them. That’s a new twist.

So, let’s not get our hopes up for more than maybe up to $5,000 tax rebate for purchasing the Volt. I personally think it should be more like $10,000 to help get us off foreign oil.

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Cautious Fan Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:57 am

I just want to say something. Electric vehicles are coming and nothing is going to stop them. The fact that GM is making them in England shows they mean business. If this was going to be a niche vehicle, they would export them from a single factory. Pinch me please. This is for REAL. And these electric vehicles are only going to get better! It’s an exciting time to be alive. Let’s thank the oil speculators for hastening the day.

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Jim I Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:05 am

My Bad. Sloppy typing that early in the morning…. I should have typed:

If the Volt will cost 40,000 in US Dollars then the Volt should cost
25,408.39 Euros at this morning’s exchange rate of 1.57428 US Dollars to 1 Euro.

Here is a great currency exchange site:

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi

But I still do not understand why the car should cost so much more (40,000 Euros). Are the European workers paid at that much higher of a rate, or are materials that much more expensive, or is NZDavid correct, and it is due to taxation policies?

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JEC Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:06 am

79 Cautious Fan

I admit I was a doubting Thomas on electrics over the past year, but I agree that it looks like we will be a seeing a shift to electrics in the coming years.

I just hope we can get them soon.

I envision the day when I never have to stop at a gas station again. Batteries appear to be the medium of choice now. I really hope EEStor can come to fruition. This would get around the problem of re-fueling time for batteries. The capacitor can charge at high speed, as long as you have a sufficient power source (This can be solved fairly easily, if it happens)

Ok, so let the Electric Revolution begin!

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Darius Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:09 am

For 40 000 EUR is better to have two.

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omegaman66 Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:16 am

Frankie I realize they (aircars) are crappy compared to regular cars and trucks but the thing is I don’t car. You say you could build one… and I would buy it too if it were street legal. I just want it as a commuter car and I don’t car what it looks like or any of that style garbage. Heck the uglyier the better in some regards. An ugly car is just ugly but when it is so crappy and ugly enough it become unique. I just want to save some money. Looks mean nothing. I am married and not looking so Dr. Suess my ride, I don’t care.

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Morgan Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:17 am

80 Jim I:

read my post a few back. Its not JUST workers.

How much are they paying for components?

How much are commodities (raw materials) being bought for by the suppliers?

Its just not as simple as saying Volt costs $40,000 USD it should cost XXXX Euros. This would be the case if, and only if, the Euro Volt were being built in the US and exported to Europe.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:24 am

#59 bruce g

Make that a Volt masquerading as a Malibu, instead of the other way around, and we’ve got agreement.

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Tagamet Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:39 am

But if they build Volt’s in Europe, the steering wheels will be on the wrong side! (just kidding)
LET’S GET THE VOLT’S WHEELS ON THE ROAD EVERYWHERE

Be well,
Tag

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Jim I Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:48 am

Morgan #84:

Actually, shipping the car halfway around the world would add some cost to the vehicle…….

But my questions are still there. Does anyone actually know if the wages, materials, utilities, etc are that much higher in Europe as compared to the USA to cause such a price difference?

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N Riley Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am

#42 Hype Master

I take it from your post that you don’t like American automakers, especially GM. I also assume from your post that you just love Toyota. That is good. Someone needs to love Toyota. They are a good company with long range plans. I agree the American automakers have been shortsighted and have a habit of making short-range plans.

But, I guess Toyota had a wonderful plan all laid out for their Tundra pick-up truck. Looks like they are going to considered just as short-sighted as GM, Ford and Chrysler in making large pickup trucks when gas prices hit the roof. Plus, look at all the big SUV vehicles Toyota makes. Sure, the Tundra is a great truck, if only butt ugly. Toyota large vehicles usually get lower gas mileage numbers than even Ford.

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Statik Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 10:43 am

#87 Jim I

“But my questions are still there. Does anyone actually know if the wages, materials, utilities, etc are that much higher in Europe as compared to the USA to cause such a price difference?”

Yes, on all counts. It was terribly different 4-5 years ago…but one of the few advantages of a extremely weak dollar is that we (Americans) are “China-ing” produced goods in relation to their cost.

I’ll give you a example on wages:

UK min wage 5.35 pounds ($10.70US). The minimum wage in the UK for full time is 1400 Euros (40 hours), as a comparison in the US it’s 676 Euros (as @ Jan 2008)

Additionally, you can’t get your retarded uncle to work this cheap…the adoption rate of full-time minimum wage is 1.8%!!!

Reference:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/364f799a-1e5b-11dc-bc22-000b5df10621.html

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N Riley Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 11:10 am

#58 Rob

Thanks for the link. Enjoyed watching the electric Smart.

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N Riley Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

#69 JEC

I agree with you on the Smart EV. It would be a good option for many commuters. At that price point it would be easy to see a lot of Americans buy a Smart EV for commuting and running around town. They could keep their larger ICE vehicles for the times when they need to go out of town on an extended trip. Then when it comes time to buy another vehicle they could keep the Smart EV and purchase a Volt.

I like these kind of options also. We need all kinds of vehicles to get us through and beyond the middle east oil.

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Statik Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

#91 N Riley

I’m with you here I think.

At this point, I really could care less what comes out right now. Lets just get any mass produced, road legal EV with 4 wheels in any variation whatsoever out to the public already.

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Jim Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

#15 Rashiid Amul

One advantage of a plant in England is that the brain trust for this new technology will be based almost exclusively in Michigan, and therefore there won’t be a language barrier between engineers, managers, etc. in Michigan and England.

Oh, and by the way, the new English Channel Tunnel (”Chunnel”) takes freight trains as well as high-speed passenger rail. So the cars only need to be loaded once onto a train, and can then be distributed to various locations on the Continent.

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Jim I Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

Statik #92: I REALLY disagree with that statement!

If the manufacturers quickly put out a vehicle that is under tested, unreliable and cheaply built, it will do massive harm to the electric vehicle movement. And I am afraid that then you will not see future generations of cars developed. As early adopters, we would put up with some bugs, but John and Mary Q. Public sure will not. The first time the car dies in traffic because of a failed battery pack, then 100 other people are going to hear about how these “new” cars are junk, and “boy I wish a had my old V-8 back, because it had 200K miles on it without a lick of a problem…”

They have to do this right. It takes time to do that development and testing. But if the Volt is a winner out of the starting gate, you will see many other models on the road quickly, because they took the time to do the basic development of the battery pack, drive train, and other electronics and software.

I am as anxious to get behind the wheel of a Volt as anyone else, but I am not willing to spend this kind of hard earned money on a klunker!

So we wait until 2010-2011, as hard as that is to do!

GO GM VOLT TEAM!!! – Get It Right!!!

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Jim I Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 4:30 pm

Statik #89:

How did you know my uncle was retarded?????????? Actually, he will work pretty cheap………….

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thanks for the info. With costs that high, it is clearer now why products cost so much more….

GO GM VOLT TEAM!!! Jim I #1196 On The GM-Volt.com List

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Jeffhre Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 2:03 am

Grizzly and Brad G
I think that the EV revolution is a perceived boom in the eyes of many leaders in the Arabian Peninsula/Persian Gulf. Demand is going up in Asia and the developing world and the producers are finally able to call the shots with respect to price. They are however, tired of the US griping about raising production and wielding asymmetrical influence. As US oil purchases in the region fall from REEV and EV use they will be able to both extend the length of their livelihood/lifestyles. Producers will be able to lower production due to falling demand in and less interference by the US, and simultaneously raise prices at will due to rising demand outside of the US. In any case, energy independence is better than sending $700 Billion a year across the ocean for the energy to drive ICE’s.

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Jack Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

Four years ago when greyout Davis was Governer of California and screwing up utility cost I spent $20,000 for solar panels.
My electric bills run me about $55.00 per YEAR and that is just for being hooked up to the grid, taxes and the electric company does not pay us for the excess. (this is supposed to change soon).
I produce much more electricty than we use so the Volt would be perfect for us if I don’t die of old age before it gets out.

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GM Considers Chevy Volt Plant in England

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