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Chevy Volt Chief Designer Bob Boniface on One Versus Two Charging Ports (With Poll)
A while back we discussed whether the Volt should have one or two charging ports. The concept car has two ports, one on either side on the front quarterpanels. GM has been stealth about what the production car will have. I discussed it again recently with Bob Boniface, the Volt’s chief designer and this is what he had to say:
“The charge port decision is matured, we know a lot more about it, there is still more work to do. There’s a lot of things under consideration. I can tell you what we are considering. I have to decide, ‘is it in the front or the rear?’, probably want it up in the front, but, ‘driver or passenger?’ You want it on the side in the front, but having two…well there’s a cost associated having two doors and two electrical ports. There’s a weight cost of the wires.”
“I’m not saying we’ve eliminated the idea of two, it’s just that when you’re trying to do a car that’s very efficient, every ounce of aerodynamic drag is important, every ounce of weight is important, and we want to be super-efficient with all things we put on the car. Now if it really needs to have to two ports, that’s one of the things we will find out when we go to research.”
So it looks like GM might still be waiting for ‘research’, i.e. consumer focus groups, to help make the decision. An interesting idea one of our readers had was one port in the front under the Chevy bowtie, I wonder if they’re thinking about that.
Why not take a poll right here? It’s only 8 weeks until the production design will be revealed (speculation).
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228 Responses to “Chevy Volt Chief Designer Bob Boniface on One Versus Two Charging Ports (With Poll)”
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:02 am
Whatever GM decides wil probably be good enough, but I guess I would want a port on either side because not everyone’s recepticles are on the right side of their garage…that, and I wouldn’t want to mess up the paint job across the bonnet from dragging an extension cord across it repeatedly.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:04 am
…oh my gosh…I actually posted first on something. I think I’ll celebrate with a Sonic Blast (with Butterfinger).
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:10 am
I think something else that would be nice would be the ability to charge at 115v vs 220v. I have the ability to do the 220V and if would charge in 1/2 the time or close, I am sure a lot of people would make arrangements to do the same.
The use to have flip down license plates in the rear for the gas, why not for the charging perts as well.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:10 am
I have one charge port on the front grill of my 2000 Ford Ranger EV and it works out just fine. I think I like that better than on one of the sides. Sealing it may be more of an issue on the front grill although this has not been an issue on mine as the charge door has sealed fine.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:15 am
I’m only 155 pounds, so a few more onces for additional wiring won’t add that much to the overall weight. Maybe all Volt buyers will agree to maintaining an ideal body weight in order to have the port on both sides.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:17 am
One port, in the front, will be best for all charging away from home.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:18 am
maybe a 3rd or a ….fourth fort will be better !
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:21 am
i think one side. i agree that this would be much better in terms of complexity, cost, and weight. i like the idea of having it in front, like RamZ suggests. for our garage, the right side would be good. either way, i would put up with an extension cord on the floor if that would be the price of reducing the need for gasoline.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:25 am
How about not wasting time, make a decision and get this car in production. This car is going to change the entire automotive game. This is the way of the future. There is a huge demand for this car. Let’s worry about the little options on the next model year of the Volt and get the original out to the public.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:27 am
I voted 2-ports…I don’t need one for either side, just one placed as a back up…”no chargey no worky” back-ups are nice to remain gasoline free!
Johnnie
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:31 am
j man @ 3, I agree… 115 AND 220 Volt ports would be an excellent idea. Talk about choice!
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:35 am
I’m more than happy to get a car with a plug. Here is an interesting idea. If its 2 plugs can I plug them both in and charge the car in half the time. I wonder if that is possible.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:36 am
I also voted two, for redundancy’s sake, but it is not really necessary. Then again, I’m also the nut who wants a solar roof for powering the sound systems and supplementary battery temperature control, so I know that my own view of how the world works is not remotely mainstream. I tend to think I’m going to break SOMETHING no matter what I do.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:41 am
I vote for a single charging port on the left rear of the car behind the swing out chrome piece of the Tail Fin Assembly.
Just like the gas cap on the 57 Chevy.
If it was good enough there, so be it !
Of course I’m kidding.
One port will do. One behind the left front wheel is fine for US versions. Build it on the other side for cars shipped to countries driving on the left.
Either way, there has to be switches / sensors that detect when a cord is in the receptacle on the car. The car shouldn’t be alliowed to move unless the receptacle is open and the access door is closed.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:46 am
I will never understand why automakers ever put the gasoline port on the passenger side of any vehicle. It should always be most convenient to the driver.
As for the recharge port, if we expect charging stations at every parking spot, then its placement in the grill or under the front bumper makes the most sense.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:49 am
I wonder if i was first with the under the bowtie idea? I know I posted that here awhile ago. Just makes sense to me, any car i’ve seen with an engine block heater has the plug up front, though that’s out of necessity.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:49 am
you need to bring back th ev-1 we would not be in the mess we re in now. gm has poor vision, thats why they are where they are now.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:52 am
I like one port – driver’s side. A dedicated 20 A circuit will be required to charge. That will require minor garage re-wiring for most garages. Might as well put in on the driver’s side where it is most convenient to plug in when you (the driver) get home and unplug when you leave. You could argue that in a two-car garage, you’d want plugs on either side, so that the car can re-charge from either wall. However, really, the cord should drop down from the garage ceiling (with a twist-lock stub extension cord) so you can walk around the rig while it is charging without tripping on the cord.
I think the plan already is to have a “smart” charger that can handle either 110/220.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:53 am
Just make one port that’s easy to get to. IMHO that would be the driver side in front or behind the driver’s door. I can’t believe that people are commenting about dragging an extension cord across the car. Get a heavy duty cord and lay it on the floor. The car’s weight is not going to bother the cord and if you’re concerned about that, run the cord around the front of the car, or hang it from the garage ceiling. As for the front or rear of the car, that’s not a good place for those people with small garages. One design is not going to fit everyone’s needs so take a look at the majority of how people park their cars in their garage. You’ll see that the driver side makes the most sense for the plug in. Oh wait, most people can’t park their car in their garage, us American’s fill our garages full of junk! LOL
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:53 am
I would like to see two. If they just put one then a minor fender bender may put that receptacle out of commission. At least if it had two and one becomes unusable for any reason you would have a backup. If GM decides to put only one then please place the receptacle in a spot that statistically gets the lest damage from minor incidents.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:54 am
I voted for two ports but I really don’t care. I just wish the Volt could be on sale before Nov. 2010.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:56 am
How about trying to follow through on at least one concept item? That would be nice. Two integrated, cool looking plugs please. Go on…spend the $75, you can make my Volt $45,075.
The quote, “every ounce of aerodynamic drag is important, every ounce of weight is important…” is just about as lame as you can get. How about not putting your ‘GM’ and ‘Volt’ stickers all over it…they would cause more drag than a countersunk/flush port. What are the odds of that happening?
We know the reason, your cheap. End of story.
I’d like to point out Lyle’s quote at the end, “Why not take a poll right here? It’s only 8 weeks until the production design will be revealed”
Production design revealed? Do you know something Lyle?
Didn’t they say we would be seeing ‘the car,’ at the 100th celebration? Wagoner’s quote (about 2 months ago) was, “we intend to show a production version of the Chevy Volt publicly in the very near future.” To be fair you worded it the same way on that thread…and you have been very careful about your word selection on the topic…perhaps you are just hedging your bets because you are not 100% sure yourself.
/It’s kind of hard to believe we are seeing a production car when they still haven’t decided where things like the plug goes.
(115/220 please)
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:58 am
One port,
Extension cords are cheap, no sense in adding cost to the vehicle.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:04 am
The designers got it right. Now the engineers and bean counters are trying to fix it. JMHO
Take Care
Arch
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am
#23 Engineer
“One port, Extension cords are cheap, no sense in adding cost to the vehicle.”
Actually I was going to address this thinking as well, but I don’t like to have posts go too long…less impact. We can’t really think like this, we can’t let GM off the hook for these kinds of changes.
On the last thread, I stated that I don’t really care too much about 4 cycllnder or 3 cyclinder engine. Go ahead, do the cheaper/easier thing GM. Save the money. Why? Because I am buying the Volt for two reasons. It’s a EV and it’s cool (as I like to say, not a “nerd’s shoe”).
This is part of the aesthetic value of the car. This is part of ‘the dream’ Don’t mess with the dream! First we lose the roof, then the interior, then the styling, then the, etc. etc.
Why not just change the tires to 1994-style Hyundai Excel 175/70R13s? Heck they’d be ALOT cheaper, and give us the added bonus of alot less contact with the road, we would really increase range with those babies!
It’s a extreme example, but essentially that is what these changes are. We are slowly losing, piece by piece, the things that make the car special.
I’m pretty sure when everyone envisions the big ‘reveal day’ now, with Wagoner and Lutz standing beside the car, we are all picturing a Malibu/Cruze with body moulding now…and thats a shame.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:17 am
In the headline, maybe “charging port” would be better than “charing port”, as the latter has a bad connotation.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:18 am
One port. It’s cheaper, lighter, and less things to go wrong. Now where to put it is another thing. I’m thinking on the driver side front. That is close to the driver so they don’t have to walk that far. Remember, it’s for Americans! lol. You also have to do it every time you get in and out of the vehicle so…
My Vote:
1 port, Location: driver side – front panel
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:27 am
I think the Chevy bowtie idea would be great…lift it up and plug-in.
I think there is a third option. One plug, two potential locations. Here’s my thought. Build two port areas but include the plug on only one side. If you need it switched, you can go to the dealer and they could re-route the cable. Pop-out the jack and move it to the other side. Probably cost you $150 to have the dealer do. But if you really needed it on the other side, it’d be possible.
Though I still think one port placed underneath the “Chevy” emblem would be best.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:31 am
I have no problem with one plug but I prefer it to be in the front where it can be accessed from either side.
However, I think it would be cool to have induction charging like my electric toothbrush. Just put a mat on the garage floor. When you park your car, it automatically starts charging. That way you won’t find out that your kid forgot to plug it in when he got home last night and now your battery is at 30%.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:33 am
I think one port in the front is best. It seems that a lot of people like the driver’s side door area, but I can’t see that being desireable for anywhere but a fraction of the personal garages out there. If the day comes when charging stations exist in apartment and business parking lots, then the front would be the best place. Maybe the day will even come when municpalities put them in parking meters on the street–in that case, the driver side door would be just about the worst location for the charging port.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:34 am
#28 Jason The Saj
Though I still think one port placed underneath the “Chevy” emblem would be best.
It would look cooler under the Opel logo, although the “Vauxhall Volt” sounds even cooler, I could call the car my “twin V”…sweetness.
Opel logo:
http://www.autozona.com.ba/uploads/pics/opel_logo.jpg
Vauxhall logo:
http://autoreviewcity.com/images/vauxhall_new_logo.jpg
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:37 am
22 Statil…
As you said, “How about trying to follow through on at least one concept item? That would be nice. Two integrated, cool looking plugs please. Go on…spend the $75, you can make my Volt $45,075. The quote, “every ounce of aerodynamic drag is important, every ounce of weight is important…” is just about as lame as you can get. How about not putting your ‘GM’ and ‘Volt’ stickers all over it…they would cause more drag than a countersunk/flush port. What are the odds of that happening?”
I agree, Statik!
BTW, GM’s ONLY other plug-in that MIGHT actually beat the Volt to market, the Saturn Vue, already has the decorative “fins”, to be modified to also function as ports, on current Vue models. The Volt & the Vue should be the same & use TWO ports, one on each side.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:39 am
I for one like to back into a parking space, I think it would be cool if the cord unwinds from the Volt, i would be happy with one port. however If i must carry an cord in the glove box, why not two ports.Anyway it does not matter, I have yet to wire the garage. i like the idea of a cord drop in the garage. If it was near the cowl it could be used as a positioner for parking.
Red HHR
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:42 am
I think Bob skipped his primary design constraint. Cost. I’m sure an extra port will add 5lb of weight and an ounce of drag, but the almighty dollar still rules the day. The article says its all about efficiency (assumed to be weight & drag). I hope not. If I’m actually going to buy one cost had better be a top priority. Though marketing it as an efficiency step sounds much better.
And my vote is for one in the front. Seems the most practical.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:53 am
I don’t like how they focus their decision on the weight of the wires, when they’re now considering a much heavier engine to use as the generator.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:54 am
The front would be the most practical. I am reminded of when I visited Fairbanks, Alaska and all the cars looked like they have tongues sticking out because of the cord for the block heater. This seems to work there and I’m sure GM can think of a way to make it more aesthetically pleasing…
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:22 am
Eric C @ 35,
Do you know for sure that the engine is heavier? I know the displacement is greater, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is heavier. Actually, the 1.0L engine that was originally to be used in the Volt doesn’t even exist, does it?
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:23 am
This doesn’t seem like a difficult decision. A car has only one fuel door for the gas tank…
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:24 am
#19 Todd
“I can’t believe people are commenting about dragging the cord across the car.”
I can’t believe people actually think that everyone’s garage, driver’s parking habits and future public charging stations are all designed identically. Sometimes I park front-in, sometimes I back into my garage. Depends on my mood. There’s no set pattern for what some people do every day. And you forgot about the future Volt owners who live in apartments and condominiums. I think they really give a poop about how to park in a garage as they possess none to debate about.
#29 Maharguitar
“That way you won’t find out that your kid forgot to plug it in when he got home last night and now your battery is at 30%.”
You are the man! I promise you, I am not being sarcastic. You must have an insurmountable amount of faith in your kids as there is no way, shape, figure or form in hell that my 18 year old is going to take out my possibly $40k car to even allow him to firget to plug it in. That’s why he has a Corolla and a job.
Honestly, I don’t care where the port is as long as it’s in a equitable position. I only stated my opinion about having two of them because I feel that way. I didn’t say it had to be law. Under the bowtie works just fine…unless I feel like backing in…
(Aw crap, there I go again-being an individual…)
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:27 am
P.S. Hey Statik, am I too sarcastic or just too opinionated?
Be honest.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:39 am
Nothing to do with the thread (not trying to hijack, just interesting news). Don’t feel the need to comment, just something to be aware of.
Matsushita Electric (Toyota’s partner for Li-Ion batteries), just announced they are putting a billion dollars (roughtly 100 billion yen) into their infrastructure to triple capacity. They are adding 50 million battery units PER MONTH capacity for 2010. (I assume that the i-Miev standard of 88 cells to a 16kWh pack translates here as point of reference…not 100 percent sure though).
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business/20080718TDY08306.htm
Looks like Toyota will not be constrained by battery supply. Of course, the fact they are already ordering 500,000 conventional packs for 2009 I’m sure gives them some alot of pull/confidence with their supplier.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:41 am
+1
Under the Bow Tie…
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:42 am
Well, here’s a thought; how about planning for one at each end AND each side, then, let the customer decide, how many, and where they would like them, as user options. One free, of course!
For me, I would like one drivers side, and one in the front for daytime parking/recharging, and backup in case the main one developed a fault.
/While I’m at it can I have a choice of colours as well?
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:45 am
This plug is going to be used and abused more than any plug I have ever dealt with. There either needs to be two (for redundancy), or it needs to be a very special plug (maybe magnetic, like on my MacBook) so it won’t wear out.
Most people love the concept car! Leave it alone as much as you can!
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:46 am
One port, with an integrated cord, as suggested above. If the only plug is at the outlet end, it would be easy to have outlets with lock boxes around them for apartment, lease and store parking, and discourage thieves from unplugging the cord at the car and replugging it into their own.
An optional second port could just have the electrical connector for the security of garage recharging, and using a regular extension cord, so that the weight penalty of a second cord and reel is avoided.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am
#15 Jason M. Hendler
Putting the charging port in the front center is a great idea. Way better than one on each side.
In Alaska we had plug in heaters. They were always in the front and worked great. Parking spaces had outlets in the center of the space so when you pulled in it was easy to connect. In this case I’m thinking that there is a design model which has evolved to work and sticking with it would not be a bad thing.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:51 am
One in the front centered is best. Only one because that’s all that’s needed and any decisions that make this car cheaper and lighter is good. Plugs and sockets are ridiculously reliable, so I think redundancy is not necessary. In the front because most people nose the car into a public parking space and this way it would be most convenient for using public charging stations if there should be one. In the center so that it is equal distant to either side should a charging station or outlet be on the side such as curbside or in your garage. There. Problem solved. Move on and engineer something more important.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:53 am
#3 j man,
GM has stated that the charger will work at 110 or 220 volts.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:53 am
#40 Firefly
“P.S. Hey Statik, am I too sarcastic or just too opinionated? Be honest.”
You want me to critique your posts? Hehe.
I do know if we didn’t have opinionated posters it would be a dull forum… and sarcasm has it’s place too, as long as you don’t bite anyone’s head off with it.
I’m naturally sarcastic myself, I think it goes hand-in-hand with being pessimist (but I’m not sure. I’m not friends with many pessimistic people, they bring me down, hehe).
I find alot of times I write a post, then re-read it and think, ‘yupe, thats a little too far, people might take it too seriously and not understand the level of humoUr I intended…better tone it down. /edit time.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am
it is going to be a pretty entertaining issue when people realize that their personal body weight and body mass index (BMI) will influence the performance of their automobile.
Want better mileage from your Volt?
Charge it with your treadmill.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am
Why not put 4 plugs, one on each side!
No, I voted for 1, because Ill be able to modify my garage with a hang down extension cord to whereever it is. Doesnt matter where, though I am inclined to say the front because i never back in, and i always walk past the front.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:01 am
#14 Exp_EngTech says: “Either way, there has to be switches / sensors that detect when a cord is in the receptacle on the car. The car shouldn’t be alliowed to move unless the receptacle is open and the access door is closed.”
————————————————————————————–
We had a discussion about this in a Forum thread last year. You can’t use the presence of charging voltage because power might be turned off at a switch or timer. Extra contacts on the charge plug would mean special (i.e. expensive) charging cables. The best way is to design the charge port cover so it can’t close when plugged in, and then have a sensor switch on charge port cover.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:01 am
I think it’s ironic how the same people can say, the ICE and the Electric motor are great for redundancy. Then come to a thread like this and say, “why would you need two plugs” or “two plugs just mean two things can break”
You can’t have it both ways. For myself, I’ve had more than a few plugs go ‘pflooowie’ (technical term) in my day. I can’t imagine that a plug on the side of car is more robust than that of my wall receptical.
I don’t generally take me house out for a spin down the highway at 60 miles a hour, and while it does rain occasionally inside my house…not nearly as much as outside. (vive le sarcasm) So I’d like a spare plug please.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am
GM is worried about an extra electrical port on the car to save weight?? I have an idea, go back to the 3 cylinder (1.0L) engine and save some real weight. Then you can splurge on the 5 Lbs for the extra outlet.
Personally, I don’t care. 1 easily accessable plug will work for me.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am
Hey all… just found out that I am # 973 on the Volt List.
Does that mean I get first dibs ??
GM… Call me…
I will let you know the color and options I want… Nov. 2010 Right ?
Ray
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:09 am
I voted one port before I even finished reading Lyles comments…mostly because that is exactly how long something like this should be debated.
But hey, its at least something to talk about until September right!?
Could I be considered a ‘contrarian’ if I think a front and center port could lead a person to undue repair costs in the event of a minor fender-bender ???
I like the side-port and I dont even care which side….I’m not opposed to walking to the other side of my car if I have to….I’m a lazy American but c’mon!!
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:10 am
How about making the wiring harness in such a way that it could be routed to either side? If the door or whatever they call it was styled so that it was interchangeable from left to right then you could switch the real door with the dummy door when switching which side you wanted to plug in. Questionable whether or not GM would want consumers re-routing wiring but it could be done at the dealer. Another nice (required?) feature would be hard to ignore warning that the car is plugged in if you try to move it. This goes double if the plug is on the non-drivers side.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:11 am
@ #10 Johnnie Paul
That’s a great point that two would be good for backup… although it’s not like cars now come with two gas tanks in case someone crashes into one of them. And it doesn’t even guarantee that the two plugs don’t share common components that would make both useless if something breaks. Seems like such a minor issue to me, but I’d say one is good enough.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:14 am
Maybe GM should offer two different lengths of cord. One option is a short cord for parking in your garage and the other option is the “steal electricity from your neighbor” version…
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:23 am
Why do we need any charging ports on the outside, we should be able to charge it via the cigarette lighter!
If there is a charging port on the outside the car, it should be right next to the hydrogen filling port to make things easy!
I joke of course. I do assume the charging port(s) are not going to be too close to the gasoline fill or tank(s) in case there is a spark when plugging in and gas fumes possibly nearby. I realize the “smart port” probably makes sure no current flows until it’s fully plugged in, but you can never be too careful.
For me personally the rear of the car would be the best. I usually pull straight into my garage and my main electrical panel is right near the garage door. In addition right in the rear has the least if any impact on aerodynamic drag.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:23 am
My guess is it will look much like the Saturn Vue Plug in here is a link I hope it works.
It looks like this would be great, but the plug looks expensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpv8rXixnPQ&feature=related
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:26 am
Just one port is fine. Running an extension cord a few extra feet around either side is fast and easy. Its’ not worth the weight, drag, and complexity for such a tiny convenience.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:28 am
I vote for 2 charging ports just like the concept car. This would be the most convenient. Remember that this is something people will have to deal with at least twice a day, so convenience is important.
There would need to be some type of safety feature that only allows 1 port to work at a time, but this could be as simple as a switch on the charge port cover.
Since the Volt draws less than 15 amps of 110 or 220 volt charging power, the internal wires between the 2 charge ports and the internal battery charger wil be relativly thin. So I don’t see this as a big deal for cost and weight.
Also, I think some sort of charging indication lights by the plug will be vital. If you plug in a cable that has no power (e.g. other end has fallen out, or power was switched off), then you wont charge the Volt’s battery at all that night. There needs to be some sort of visual confirmation that the cable is fully plugged in and that the battery is charging.
In addition, it would be really helpful to see how full the battery is charged right at the charging port. For example, my cheap digital camera battery charger has 3 LEDs that that give a reasonable idea of how full the batteries are.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:33 am
_____________________________________________________
I have a small EV (upgraded golf cart type) car that I use for driving around the community where my vacation home is. My charge plug is on the back of the car. Here is what I have learnt in my circumstance:
1. If the charge cord is somewhere that the driver does not see when getting into the car, the driver WILL at some point drive off with the car plugged in (unless there is some kind of mechanism that does not allow the car to start while plugged in).
2. The charging plug receptacle on the car is an item that can wear out; make it easy for service to install a replacement.
3. Charging receptacle can get wet; it’s best for the plug receptacle to face down or tilt down so water does not settle into the receptacle cavity.
4. People tripping on the charge cord is an issue. I am considering moving my charge receptacle to the front of the car. This location for me is best to keep cord away from foot traffic. Color the charge cord a high visible color; this DOES help. My original cord was black and I replaced it with an orange cord.
For those GM-VOLT bloggers that get hysterical when GM considers changing something from the original VOLT concept specs, please keep in mind that the alternative would be for GM to not engage it’s future user base as part of the design and decision making process. I think it is great that GM is engaging the outside world (such as this site)and remaining somewhat fluid working towards the final VOLT specs. If they are keeping an open mind and reaching out so should we.
I’m getting really pumped about the VOLT. Go GM-VOLT Team!
_____________________________________________________
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:42 am
One.
Up high very close to the driver’s door so it’s easy to get to no matter how/where you park. (driver always has to get in/out right)
Also, much harder to forget to un-plug before you get in the next morning.
Ken
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am
#25 statik
What do you mean off the hook, and this thinking? Their doing their jobs, specifically the engineers. They have to make it better, faster, cheaper, and if by removing one plug and it saves on the bottom line then go for it. Also how often will you use the second port?
And I will still buy the volt regardless of how it looks, as long as it performs as per the specs.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:45 am
I live in a townhouse and we all have garages (small garages). Since we have limited parking most of these are actually used for parking cars. I have a Honda Accord and I would barely be able to plug anything into the front of this car (OK I could rearrange things for another 18”). For larger vehicles this would not be an option, so for us a side mounted plug would be best. This might not be a problem for the first Chevy Volt but for future plug-ins it certainly would be.
I initially voted for one plug but upon further review maybe two would be better. One on the driver side and one in front while parking at charging stations away from home.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:46 am
I agree with Kevin Moriarty at #9. One plug is fine. I don’t care where it is. Just get me the !@#$$% car.
#19 Todd:
LOL indeed! Maybe a good fringe benefit of the Volt is that it will get a few of the !@#$% cars off the streets and into the garages. Probably they will just buy long extension cords and leave them outside, but we live in hopes.
#50 Eco:
Don’t laugh, there is a reason why all current top line open wheel race car drivers, and most NASCAR drivers as well, look like jockeys. The vintage racers have a bumper sticker that says:
“Remember when drivers were fat and tires were skinny?”
Just listen to David Hobbs & Co. nattering off about the fuel loads in F1 qualifying, and how the cars speed up as the fuel load burns off.
If every driver in the US got down to his or her ideal body weight, we could probably get off imported oil, LOL!
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:50 am
How many charging ports should the Chevy Volt have?
WRONG FIRST QUESTION…Where is the best place for a charging outlet in a parking lot? This question is already answered with the existing receptacles for the battery heater in the FAR NORTH parking lots (at one end of the parking space). When receptacles are installed in warmer climates, they will be in the same place.
The answer of the posted question becomes obvious. 2 ports…front and back and NOT ON THE SIDE. Or just 1 port on the front or back of the vehicle.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:51 am
#61
thanks for the Vue link, the plug is cool looking. The grip looks like it has a trigger and reminds me of a gas pump handle.
GM- design it to look like a gas pump handle and the irony will be cool as heck!
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:55 am
I can’t believe they used the argument that “every ounce of drag and weight is important”. They act like this thing is a NASCAR cup car. If all this is that critcal, then they better build the car to get the 40 mile range assuming a 300lb driver. Or the four seat occupied by adults. This is just silly.
Two ports please. Convenience matters too.
All this REALLY has me worried about how bland and aero the car will look, devoid of nearly all its character and style. “For the sake of drag”. I am afraid GM is making a long term mistake with these short term decisions.
If it ends up looking no better than a Prius, the Volt becomes “just another green car”. NO charisma. NO visual hook. I don’t think this is what GM or Lutz had in mind originally. Or me for that matter.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:58 am
I can’t believe he is discussing the weight of a few feet of wire after deciding to go with the 1.4 engine that is overkill. Doesn’t make much sense to me. I don’t care where the put the port or ports but it does not make a whole lot of sense to have to go to the passenger side to unplug it every morning before getting in on the drivers side to go!
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:04 am
Front port better for parking lot charging. I think you should use normal charging cord outlets just like a computer uses. Fancy charging cord designs will probably cost hundreds when it breaks. This should be a easy problem to solve.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:07 am
#66 Engineers
“What do you mean off the hook, and this thinking? Their doing their jobs, specifically the engineers. They have to make it better, faster, cheaper, and if by removing one plug and it saves on the bottom line then go for it. Also how often will you use the second port?
And I will still buy the volt regardless of how it looks, as long as it performs as per the specs”
Thats not how you sell cars.
If if a product isn’t saleable, then it doesn’t get made/sold, regardless if you, yourself personally still buy one. You can’t sell a $45,000 Cobalt/Malibu with a 40 mile range…and with each press release like this, it feels this car is morphing into that.
But that is just my opinion, and you have yours. Like all things, in the end, the market will decide.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:10 am
Without reading any of the posts (There are too many and I just can’t keep up anymore) I will say this.
I want it in the front or back on the drivers side.
The front under the bow tie is not a good idea, IMO.
It will catch bugs, salt, sand, ice, and will be more susceptible to damage from flying rocks and other debris.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:13 am
#27 Texas
“One port. It’s cheaper, lighter, and less things to go wrong. Now where to put it is another thing. I’m thinking on the driver side front.”
Agree, and agree.
The team has gone through thousands of these type discussions. A- a little better but more $, B- a little simpler and cheaper.
If you are on the mind set of, “lets keep it simpler and cheaper, and get it out on-time, and put the enhancements in Volt ll”, I must vote for simpler and cheaper, etc..
Re: placement, I believe it should be where it currently is on the (old) show car (looks great in the window ledge extension area. If it is up front, it would be subject to more corrosion, bugs, stones, salt, driving rain, snow/ice, wife running it into the step ladder (oops- its ok, she’s sleeping right now), etc..
Also, it should be near driver.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:17 am
I looked at the vue link plug in. That thing is too big to carry around all the time. Besides it looks very expensive. I like the small flat plug they are using in the volt photo. Perhaps we could have a small flat compartment in the door for holding it. That said – then obviously we would want the port just outside the drivers door. Even better would be a retractable cord option so that we alwalys have it handy.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:25 am
Hey, completely off topic, but did you all know that you can find out what number you are on the waiting list?
Just go to the link below and enter your email address and click the “Continue button”
On the next screen, at the top, in bold, you will see your number.
“http://gm-volt.com/join-us/” without the quotes.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:30 am
#77 wwskinn3
“That thing is too big to carry around all the time.”
Link didn’t work, try…
google (saturn vue plug in) Then, select: GM – Fuel Economy – News…
Yea, what the heck it that? It looks like a (pardon the expression) “gasoline” nozzle? Great sales pic.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:50 am
Firefly # 39:
#29 Maharguitar
“That way you won’t find out that your kid forgot to plug it in when he got home last night and now your battery is at 30%.”
You are the man! I promise you, I am not being sarcastic. You must have an insurmountable amount of faith in your kids as there is no way, shape, figure or form in hell that my 18 year old is going to take out my possibly $40k car to even allow him to firget to plug it in. That’s why he has a Corolla and a job.
—–
Damn straight! I’m with you 100 percent. Hell will be much much cooler than it is now before I let them drive it. Not for $40K or more, that’s for sure.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:51 am
Ideally A single port on the front of the car that is compatible with existing charging stations. I know this is a large heavy plug but it would eliminate the replacement of the existing public charging infrastructure.
My plan for an EV conversion (unfortunately won’t happen) was to put the standard Avcon socket on the front and more common 220 volt plug in the old fuel door. I wanted to be compatible with the existing public charging equipment and have a handy opportunity charger port.
GM could put their own custom plug right beside the Avcon port and have the best of both worlds. A standard plug that will allow connection to existing public charging equipment and a light weight plug for home use.
I don’t know if GM is going to keep the safest charging method the magnecharger (LPI or SPI as it is sometimes called). This system’s major drawback is it was expensive ($2000-$3000 each). But you could lick the paddle in the poring rain and not get shocked. In order to maintain electrical safety as laid out in NEC 625 and SAE J1772 standards a charger interface unit of some kind will have to be utilized.
One thing I do know is that a standard has to be worked out NOW! Before we have thousands of EV’s on the road with different plugs in different locations on the car. This would be a nightmare for providers of public charging stations having a pole next to each parking spot with 6 different plugs on it and cords to reach all the way to the back of the car.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:57 am
I have lived in the Northern region of the midwest for some time and we plug our block heaters in directly in the front of the car. This seems to work quite well for everyone.
Just give me the car already. I can buy an extension cord to plug in anywhere.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:58 am
Who cares?!?! Enough talk already….just build the damn thing!!
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Eco #50 says
it is going to be a pretty entertaining issue when people realize that their personal body weight and body mass index (BMI) will influence the performance of their automobile.
Want better mileage from your Volt?
Charge it with your treadmill.
—————–
I love that idea. Charge the Volt using the Treadmill. Save electricity and get more mileage on the battery. Both at the same time. Love it. Love it. Love it. My overly large backside could use a really good excuse to get smaller. This would do it for me.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Is this a distracter??? Just get something out to the public! Adding 10 ft of wire and a $10 plug could be done at anytime.
Come on,, lets first firm up a decision on the battery, chassis, engine, body design, and……WAIT…. has this project even been started???
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Two ports is much more likely to be useful. If there’s one, it needs to be driver’s side, and I’ll tell you why:
many people park their cars in tight spaces, but there’s always going to be room on the driver’s side.
In my garage, I simply cannot walk to the passenger side. Extension cords don’t matter, and it’s not a question of proximity to the power source–I can’t put my body over there without gymnastics, and I’m not going to do that every day. The front of the car is in a similar situation. And I know many parking spaces where the front or the side are inaccessible, and that makes the front or rear of the car (based on back in/head in) and the passenger side problematic. But since I’m getting out on the drivers side, I’m always going to be able to get there without extra effort.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:15 pm
A well placed single port to begin with will be fine. Having it on the front left panel near the drivers side (as pictured above) would be great. As you get ready to drive off, you will hopefully see it and remember to unplug it…I’ll use a bright orange cord!
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
The reality keeps looking dimmer!
I would be quite disappointed if i bought a 40K car, got 1/3 the efficiency that was claimed, then had to listen to excuses like the dust on the car added weight and ruined the aerodynamics.
Build it … there is a guy in illinois that did it in his garage with junk he had laying around.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
@ 20, good point about the fender bender. A minor ding could prevent you from driving at all and cause serious expense to get back on the road. MULTIPLE PLUGS or at least where current ICE gas caps are….
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:24 pm
One in the front and one in the rear. Let’s say you are at a parking garage and want to “borrow” some juice. Just back it up very close to the wall and plug it in via the rear.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:26 pm
http://wgntv.trb.com/news/local/coverstory/wgntv-news-051407coupes,0,7832522.story
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:26 pm
one port. you can buy an extension cord for cheap these days…
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:29 pm
#78 Rashid — Thank you. It worked fine and was fun.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
#64 CDAVIS
YES! You are right about driving off with the car plugged in. That will happen a lot, something I completely forgot about, though I did this myself on more than one occasion.
So more important than having two plugs would be a feature that prevented the car from starting when plugged in.
it’s amazing what practical experience can teach you. Thanks for making the point. Hopefully it will ensure something along this line happens.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Before reading all the comments that have already been posted here, I vote for one port on the driver’s side or in the font. It needs to be where the driver can see it so he/she cannot forget to unplug prior to driving away. Unless GM is going to require the plug to be unplugged before the car will allow movement. That would be great if they can do it cost effectively. All it should take is a sensor that tells it is plugged in (which they will have) and some software code that says don’t allow the car to start forward or backward while plugged in.
Now, I will read what has been said here.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
how about a 110 and 220 port?
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
#25 Statik
I agree with you. It does seem we are losing the concept car bit by bit. That would be a shame. Therefore, I change my vote to two plugs, one on each side as on the concept car. Give us as much of the concept car as you can, GM, or you may find more of us dissatisfied with the results.
Another point to consider: The concept car shows a special cord plugged into the car to which you would attach your electrical cord. If this still holds true, I don’t like the idea of trying to keep up with this special cord. Just all the car to take the female end of an electrical cord. Put inside the car’s body anything it needs to make the connection. How many of us would lose this special cord? Plus, if you pull up to charging port in a shopping center and have to use that special cord, how long before someone rips you off? Even if they don’t need to cord, they will do it for the “meanness” of it. So, GM, require not special cord or end on the electric code to be connected to the car.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm
one port on the drivers side makes sense to me and buy an extension cord. Lets get on with it and not waste time on fluff.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
One right upfront center. But really I don’t to much car where or how many. To me it doesn’t seem like it should matter. In a two car garage one of the cars would have it towards the center of the garage if it were located on the side. Front of the car seems to be most versatile location too me. But I truley don’t car. Front, rear, back side top bottom. As long as it isn’t dead center bottom. hehe
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pm
#95 and others that say there should be a sensor so you cant drive off with it plugged in..
I agree, there should be a way to remind people to unplug it before driving off. This is simular to people leaving their headlights on I guess, I know my car beeps at me if i open the door with them still on. There is one problem with having a sensor that wont let you start your car though. If the sensor breaks, you wont be able to start your car! Now wouldnt that stink.. I think they should make an override for the sensor too, in case it breaks you can still drive it. It would be even better if all this was customizeable. Like you could turn off plugged in / not plugged in warnings, or change how they warn you depending on what you prefer.
Ok ok.. I know i am asking for way too much now, maybe in Gen 2 or Gen 3..
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
There needs to be a standard for public charging stations to support different vehicles. Nobody wants to bring a spare charging cord with them to the airport or a public garage and then worry about it getting stolen. Why not just support a standard 3 prong plug direct to the car?
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pm
I agree with a few others that the plug should NOT be in the front. In addition to the dirt/damage issues mentioned, it’s the lowest part of the car and would require bending over to find the port. The only place worse than the front would be underneath the car.
If only one plug port is available, then it should be placed on the driver’s side, just in front of the upper door hinge (like on the concept Volt).
I’m sure GM will have a fail-safe that prevents the car from moving while plugged in. That’s just too obvious to miss.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
One port near the front, preferably on the driver’s side.
A second, emergency port could be mounted somewhere under the hood, for use after a fender-bender or outboard plug malfunction (in this case, the gasketed and ‘pretty’ door assembly isn’t necessary, just a solid nylon cap would do). The interior placement would mean that the wire to the charger could be shorter than on a fender: Depending on where it sits in the car, this emergency port could be mounted on the charger itself to eleminate all extra wiring.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:18 pm
#75 Rashiid Amul:
Yeah, it’s getting tougher every day. Look at the thread below on the engines, with 178 comments and counting. And lots of them pretty darned dense (compliment!) Pretty soon it will be a full time job to try to keep up with this stuff.
I guess it’s all good though. More people, more comments, more Volt buzz. BLOG ON!
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
woohoo, i’m up higher that i thought:
#5275 on the waiting list.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
About loosing the concept car, it reminds me of the Tucker movie, when Detroit tried to take over his company, and make what they want not what he promised.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pm
#29 maha
I am with you on the induction charging if it is efficient.
Front fender ports for other than primary charging location.
Emergency vehicles have solenoid plug ejectors when key is turned on.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
One port is enough – closest to the driver so when exiting for the evening/work they can quickly plug-in. Sure the one that GM selects will be fine at this stage.
Just a note of continued support for Lyle, GM Team and all on this board who support leadership to the electrification of transport. You guys are doing a fantastic job of building support for the premier electric vehicle.
And let’s not let the bashers spoil the enthusiasm with dour predictions for GM and the cost of Volt. The recent realignment from global warming to Global Energy Independence has ruffled some old feathers – but all for the long term better as we will be facing the future with fact and not speculation. And as each new Li-Io announce comes along, the cost per kWh of battery storage is dropping.
Let’s stay focused on the fact that 40 mile AER is a revolution in transportation and the Volt is leading the way.
Thanks Lyle and GM for your unflinching effort to bring this breakthrough vehicle to a public that is poised and ready for electrified transportation.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:41 pm
#74 Statik
“Thats not how you sell cars.
If if a product isn’t saleable, then it doesn’t get made/sold, regardless if you, yourself personally still buy one. You can’t sell a $45,000 Cobalt/Malibu with a 40 mile range…and with each press release like this, it feels this car is morphing into that.
But that is just my opinion, and you have yours. Like all things, in the end, the market will decide.”
Swing and a miss.
I wasn’t talking about selling cars, I was talking about making design changes and decisions. Engineers are trying to make something faster, better, cheaper in whatever light they look at it. It isn’t their job to worry about if it will sell or not that is the job of marketing and PR who have told them there is a market for these.
Also you have to think that this car is a “mass market” car, most people that buy it will never know its battery powered until a sales person tells them. Or they will buy it because of its looks and know nothing else other than it gets great gas mileage and not have a care in the world of what the concept looked like. More than enthusiasts buy cars; and frankly enthusiasts are the minority.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:41 pm
FYI…Chevy unveiling the new Camaro at 4 this afternoon…
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080721/BUSINESS01/80721046
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm
One thing, GM needs to protect the port from dirt, ice and snow as much a possible to maintain a good connection in all climates. The plug shown in the picture looks more like a computer plug and may not be practical in cold temperatures. The plug and port need to be easy to use and sturdy because they will be abused a lot. Go GM
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Comments #14, 20, 46, 64, 81 & 101 were very constructive.
I would personally prefer to buy a spare cord & leave it suspended from a ceiling mounted socket in my garage. I couldn’t do that with a rear plug in Prius, because my garage door would block a ceiling mounted socket.
Dan G. (#48), do you know whether we could use 220V 1 phase or 220V 3 phase? Each requires a different type of socket and both differ from the 110V plugs.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
#103
Good call on the emergency port. I believe it will be necessary for service centers as well if the main port is damaged during an accident.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Honestly, how much weight would be added to the car by adding one more charging port? Really…Give us two well covered charging ports and compensate by making the roof magnesium or carbon fiber. And don’t tell me that GM can’t do it because if it can be done on a Z06 then it can be done on a Volt. There’s your weight savings.
#113 Aspherical
Good call and my point exactly. People want to say that 2 ports means extra weight or inconvenience. But how inconvenient would it be if something damaged the ONLY charging port on the entire car while you’re parked at work 17 miles from home?
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I think that the simplest solution would be to have one port in the middle of the front grill. Perhaps incorporated into the logo. Not only would that be aestheically pleasing, it could be used in a creative marketing campaign. Also, this would ensure that cars when parked, could all have easy access to a given outlet.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pm
#55 Ray
“Hey all… just found out that I am # 973 on the Volt List.”
How did you find your number, Ray? I have been trying to find out my number. I apparently did not keep the original email welcoming me to the list. I don’t know if the number was on the email or not.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
If they want to save a few ounces, cut the ICE out and make an all EV.
Just my opinion. 1 vs 2 ports is a non issue.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
WHO CARES JUST GET ME THE CAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Piece by piece, the Volt going backwards into the future. But I don’t care. The concept was a great car with a lot of cool features. But that’s make-believe. I’m more of a practical person. I don’t care if the car looks like an 84 Escort. I don’t really care if the plug is on the front, drivers side, passenger side, or rear- as long as it’s functional and well placed.
What would be really nice is if GM would simply make a retractable/extendable cord that fits in the front grill (sort of like how a projection screen pulls down and then stays, and then you pull it down and let go and it winds back up). That way, you always have an extension cord with you, built in, and it’s easy to pull out and plug in. This could be hidden under the bow tie very easily. Not to mention, it would place an emphasis on the Chevy logo anytime it’s plugged in.
The two on the side was a great idea for convenience, but let’s face it. How often will you really use “the other” plug? Once you find a place for the Volt in your garage, driveway, etc… you will likely always plug in at the same location.
So my idea: A retractable cord that is mounted under the bow-tie.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm
114 firefly
“But how inconvenient would it be if something damaged the ONLY charging port on the entire car while you’re parked at work 17 miles from home?”
Somewhere between 1/3 – 1/2 a gallon of gas of inconvinience.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pm
#116 N Riley:
Look at Rashiid’s comment #78.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
GM is concerned about of the extra weight of the wiring to the second port? …. and they plan to use a heavy 4 cylinder ICE from another GM product to save money? With no consideration of the added weight? Who is watching the store here ???
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I have a question. Now I know little
about electrical so please excuse me
if the question reflects that.
If there are two ports, and both are
plugged in at the same time, would
that decrease time it takes to charge?
Could something like that be
configured (and make economic
sense for GM to do)?
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I vote one charging port and very well protected from the elements and vandalism.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
#97 N Riley
“I don’t like the idea of trying to keep up with this special cord. Just all the car to take the female end of an electrical cord. Put inside the car’s body anything it needs to make the connection. How many of us would lose this special cord? Plus, if you pull up to charging port in a shopping center and have to use that special cord, how long before someone rips you off? Even if they don’t need to cord, they will do it for the “meanness” of it. So, GM, require not special cord or end on the electric code to be connected to the car.”
Good point, I was thinking the same thing after, especially after watching that Plug-In Saturn ditty from Mark H (#61) posted.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:58 pm
#109 Engineer
“Also you have to think that this car is a “mass market” car, most people that buy it will never know its battery powered until a sales person tells them”
–I don’t even think I need to comment…legendary!
“Oh by the way, that car you just bought? Yupe, it’s electric.”
Side note: If you want to get technical, engineers don’t make design changes like going from 2 plugs to 1…thats what bean counters do.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I vote for “one”, and also knowing what idiots other people are (OK, what an idiot *I* am), it should be in front. I guarantee that at some point in the car’s life, someone will get in and back out of their parking space without thinking. If it’s in front the cord will just straighten out and pop out. If it’s on the side, you’re going to damage something.
Apple’s laptop quick-disconnect comes to mind. It’s not a traditional two-prong outlet. It’s a magnet. You accidentally trip over the cord, and it pops off harmlessly.
Also, being in front helps anyone who parks in a carport or a charging spot in a parking lot. Almost every one of those spots are “head-in” parking.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
#78 Rashiid
“Hey, completely off topic, but did you all know that you can find out what number you are on the waiting list?”
Thanks. I did and found my number. I am number 4726. Not the earliest number, but in the first 5,000.
Thanks, again.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
j-man and Dave B
At Voltnation they said clearly that the plug would be a “smart plug” and accept either standard or 220 V. I hope that that’s not something that changed.
Be well,
Tag
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Anon@127
I believe that the car will not START if it is still plugged in.
Be well,
Tag
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
126 Statik:
Having dealt with one of those vultures for a different OEM…yeah. Not only are they officious but they really generally know nothing about manufacturing just numbers.
“You’re bill of material is too high”
US: “No, its not. We are amortizing tooling and our BOM is still lower than yours.”
“No, its too high. We can get this part for cheaper through our vendor”
US: “really? how much do you pay?”
“$$$$”
US: “um…we pay less than you do”
“No you don’t! we are such and such Corporation we know how to do things, you don’t”
US: “Whatever, your price just went up $200 dollars if we are going to use your vendors”
The engineers were just as bad though.
“You don’t use laser guidance?”
US: “No, our workers know which bolt goes where”
“Unacceptable, we require a certain tolerance and there is no way you can meet it without laser guidance”
US: “really? explain the gap in the bumpers that swings from 1/4″ to a full inch depending on which vehicle you look at.”
Engineer doesn’t say a word. Just sends an email a couple days later with a link to someone who can sell us the very expensive piece of laser emitting machinery with computer attached.
account and parts discussed fictional to protect the perpetually stupid large vehicle OEM.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Edit: Kinda got carried away. If you wish to skip the wall of text – my summarized opinion is at the bottom.
Too many posts to quote/reference so I’ll just write them
Near the start, someone wondered why there were different sides for gas cap for different models/brands/whatever.
Because no one decided to standardize it.
There’s two different reasonings behind it:
1) Put it on the left side – the driver gets out and there it is, fill it up.
2) Put it on the right side – in North America, we drive on the right side of the road – if you pull over, you pull over to the right. This should still be true for gas pumps (though we all know they can be crazy, especially if there’s a price drop and lineups, etc.)
So there’s your explanation
As for the plug on the volt:
I’d prefer one*.
As said, why such a crazy (expensive!) plug. Just a cover and a standard 3-prong plug! Those rarely (if ever) wear out, and that’s only if you’re horribly abusive to them. Also, this means you can use any standard extension cord (rated to 220 if its a 220 outlet, mind you) and plug in.
However. Should this become disabled, non functional, whatever, I agree with another comment – put a backup port on the charger itself. You’d have to lift the hood, but its for backup/emergencies, not for everyday use.
This way you can still use it for a day or two until you get to the dealer to get the external plug fixed.
In Canada, EVERY car has a block heater, simply because.. well.. you’re an idiot if you don’t use it in the winter.
)
You get better fuel economy (though it’s usually much lower at best, no matter what you do, it seems), a warmer ride (5 mins to heat up doesnt seem like much until you’re sitting in a -10C car
and it costs like $0.50 (You can save much more in gas by using that $0.50 to heat up your car)
All block heater cords are on the front, and they dangle out of the hood.
This design is bad. Very bad.
1) this cord sticks out all the time, unless you lift the hood and tuck it in. It lowers aerodynamics for no reason.
2) it hangs closer to the ground – it gets wet, covered in salt, etc.
Rusts/corrodes/gets damaged easily.
That being said, the volt MUST have an “internal” design (as pictured) – but make it a standard 3 prong male (since extension cords are female on the end you plug in) or include a double male-end adapter to use a standard extension cord to plug in.
Actually, that’s probably a better idea – prove two plugs to fit the volt (one in case you lose/damage the other) which are like 1″ long you can stick on the end of an extension cord.
That way you don’t need this fancy, expensive “gas pump handle” as people called it.
As for placement – Driver’s side can be more convenient, as it is for one of the gas tank arguments.
However – parked on the street is an option – driver’s side = useless then (if there’s a charging port on a parking meter, for example)
On the front is nice, but its more prone to damage, and quite frankly, the front sucks. They only use the front for block heaters because that’s where the heater is. In the volt, you can string the cord wherever internally, so why not put the port somewhere useful, and least prone to damage — the back.
at home in a driveway or garage, you can get a cord to it easily. In a parking lot w/ ports, you back in accordingly and you can charge up, and be ready to go (I always back in when I can, idiot drivers are more likely to hit you when backing out of a parking spot than many other scenarios)
At a (hypothetical) parking meter or side-charge situation you can easily reach the back from either side.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:31 pm
One port with a long cable. Done! (Especially if its going to rise costs)
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
A busness babe on Fox Business Channel just interviewed a guy who is banding dealers together to buy up GM stock. He said that they had already bought several hundred thousand shares. Of MORE interest was the comment that “GM is working hard to get the Volt out EARLIER than proposed”. From her lips to God’s ear!
Be well,
Tag
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I think GM needs to create a standard for all electric cars of a plug in the front that you drive into. Include the option to transmit credit card info (money) and incourage resturants, motels and others with parking lots to put these drive in plugs in the pavement. The business can give it away or charge for the electricity. A kit to put these into our garage would work great and these condos and apartments can install them in their parking spaces. No more plug in, just drive in. Can it get any easier?
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
GM SUCKS.
I don’t alike GM, I hate FORD and swore them off years ago. BUT…I am sick of paying for GAS. I will go against my word and buy a GM product again after sooooo many years if they finally get off their azz and give me a car worth buying and that will only happen if they don’t screw up the VOLT.
Wake up GM and get it done or quit wasting space and go out of business. I don’t care if you put 2 outlets in it…I KNOW HOW TO USE A FRICKING EXTENSION CORD.
And for the moron that is going to say it is a special cord…someone will make an extension.
Reasearch time on something so insignificant is as useless as deciding what fu(cking color the cord should be.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:43 pm
#135 Bob S
All GM or any other automaker has to do is provide a standard 3 prong male port on the car that a standard electrical cord with a 3 prong female plug will plug into. Just like on the back of most desktop computers.
Problem solved. You now have a standard. One that nearly everyone has in the closet. Standard external heavy duty electrical cords.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:45 pm
#136 GmsAJoke
What kind of vehicle do you drive? All of them have lemons. All of them will have mechanical problems. Not a single automaker makes a perfect vehicle. You must have really had a series of bad experiences. Hope that will change for you, in the future.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
I’m with all of you who say that the Volt should just use a regular cord since it’s cheap, with many different variations.
That being said, GM, being a for-profit corporation, may decide to design a special proprietary cord for the Volt so they could make you pay $100 for a “spare” cord. After all, those of us willing to pay $40,000 for the Volt will certainly be willing to pay $100 for a spare cord. Not to mention that how many of us would refuse to buy a Volt if GM did this? NONE!!
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:51 pm
#134 Tag
“A busness babe on Fox Business Channel just interviewed a guy who is banding dealers together to buy up GM stock. He said that they had already bought several hundred thousand shares”
I actually started to post on this, but then I got all cynical about it, so I stopped, lol. Here is a link to it:
http://www.smartmoney.com/breaking-news/on/index.cfm?story=ON-20080721-000356-1059&afl=yahoo
Here is our two favoUrite GM execs holdings in relation to their pay:
Lutz 81,360 shs = $1,065,000 (two months pay)
Wagoner 35,290 = $461,946 (two weeks pay)
Wagoners 2007 salary and comp? (2.2 mil + 12.4) $14.4 million
Lutz’s 2007 salary and comp? (1.6 mil + 5.3) = $6.9 million
Linky to salary/compensation source:
http://wot.motortrend.com/6241849/miscellaneous/gm-top-executive-salaries-return-to-normal/index.html
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I voted for two ports – but now that I’ve read various comments, etc. – I’m thinking that a single plug at the back would work well. For safety and visibility, I always back into our driveway such that the car emerges front-first. Plugging into the rear would mean that I don’t have to spend as much $$$ on cables and outlets to charge the Volt outside. A single plug on either the driver or passenger side of the Volt means that I would potentially need to drag a cable around the car to the appropriate side where the plug is located – depending on whether I drove in or back into my driveway.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:06 pm
#126 statik
“Side note: If you want to get technical, engineers don’t make design changes like going from 2 plugs to 1…thats what bean counters do.”
I think I am missing something here, bean counter do as they say count beans. They make suggestions, engineers actually do something about it.
And by all means lets get technical.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:19 pm
N. Riley 128, RB #93.
You are quite welcome. I thought it was a cool feature also.
Noel Park, Did you look up your number? I know you were here as early as I was. Guess what my number is……110.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:25 pm
#136 GMsaJoke.
I don’t alike GM, I hate FORD and swore them off years ago. BUT…I am sick of paying for GAS.
————————–
I was the same way a couple of years back. But I truly hate the Middle East governments more than GM. I agree with Anti-oil Jihadi when he says the Middle East needs to go back to the way they were before oil was discovered. (I’m going to hear it for that comment, I’m sure).
But the Volt is so significant, the concept looked so beautiful, EREV makes so much sense, I simply had a change of heart. The last American car I owned was a piece of junk 1986 Pontiac Sunbird.
The next American car I will own will be a 2011 or 2012 Chevy Volt.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Has anyone ever opened the hood of a Corvair? (Great little convertible, btw.)
The lock is hidden under the bowtie, which swivels away. Elegant design.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:29 pm
144 Rashiid Amul: “the Middle East needs to go back to the way they were before oil was discovered.”
You mean, leading the world in math and science while the west persecuted anyone who dared question right-wing Christian dogma?
I have mixed feelings about the western world returning to that state of things. But hey, we seem to be going full-tilt against teaching math and science already…
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
#140 Statik:
How sad. I wonder how much the head of Countrywide made last year? Indymac? A microcosm of what’s wrong with American business.
If and when they finally drive GM into Chapter 11, I wonder if they have to give any of it back? NOT! Probably get a bonus for their brilliant business strategy
I keep saying that I’m trying to stay positive, but it gets a little tough sometimes.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Another article/speech by Andy Grove :
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aC9rYRwCL_q4
Be well,
Tag
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
143 Rashiid Amul:
940. I’m a little behind you true urban pioneers!
After some of my comments on this blog, i probably won’t see a Volt in my lifetime, alas.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I am all for the middle east having only sand to sell.
Nothing against the people, but their government stinks and most of them support the terrorist. I do not consider any middle east country our friend, except Israel. But, who knows, I could be wrong. JMO.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:47 pm
out of sight out of mind
put it near the front door driver side.
keeping it simple clean
the public are not familiar with evs and the designs so thats the safest .. easiest and most practical design
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
#148 Tagamet:
That’s what I’m talking about!
Have you looked at the Poulsen hybrid idea at all? It seems pretty promising. I sent them an e-mail about my S-10. The sent back a courteous response , but they are not ready yet. I would try it right now, if the stuff was available.
If anybody know of anything similar which is actually available, I would love to hear about it.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I’ll probably be using an extension cord anyway, so dragging it an extra five feet around the other side of the car isn’t a big deal. Paying an extra few hundred bucks for an additional charger port, however, IS something I’d worry about.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I would actually prefer one on the rear of the car. My garage is set up so that we walk infront of the cars, so we park close to the garage door.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:56 pm
CONSIDER THESE IMPORTANT FACTORS:
1) Private garages often have NO space for a person to walk either in front of OR behind a car, but ALWAYS have space on the left side (the driver’s door has to open) and USUALLY have space on the right side (with a passenger, the right door also has to open)
2) GM’s VOLT & Plug-in VUE will jointly set the “de facto standard” location of charging ports for the entire industry since they’ll hopefully be the FIRST on the market from a major manufacturer ….careless socket location(s) will be subject to wide criticism
3) The typical car owner today fills his fuel tank perhaps only ONCE/week, whereas the typical VOLT or Plug-in VUE owner will usually plug in EVERY DAY (or, if charging at the office, TWICE/day) …..i.e., something like 5-15 times more often!
ATTN GM: As trivial as this may seem on the surface, each of these 3 points illustrate that it’s really NOT trivial at all. The Volt & Vue should each have 2 sockets (at the left & right front fenders as in the original concepts)!
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I’ve got an Idea! Why not make a docking station. You could put two b**bs on the front grille like the ‘57 Chevy BelAir (for that retro look) and just drive into the docking station which has a bra like receptacle. Your car recharges and all you have to do is back away when you want to leave.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I have never heard of anyone complain about have one fuel door…..whats the big idea? Maybe a direct feed to the battery as a backup but 1 port should easily be enough.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
2 ports with one one each side, just like the concept if manufacturer loaded cost is less than $150 per port. Front and rear see most accidents and streetside charging would benefit from 2 ports on sides. Also convenient for right side driver countries. Done! No need to research.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
#148 Tagamet
Thanks for the cite. What’s so annoying is the bickering, as the one described between Mr. Grove and Mr. Carbon, about whether the economy, national security, or global warming is the primary reason to move transportation needs from oil to electricity. Are these people nuts? Who cares about the reason? The solution is the same.
#152 Noel Park
The Poulsen Hybrid is very interesting. Very simple but it should work. it’s the only retrofit solution for getting good gas mileage I’ve seen.
I’d be interested in trying one out. But Poulsen Electric is a small company and it is going to take them a while to get kits for their vehicles out. For SUVs and pickups they’re saying 2009.
Cost is going to be an issue as well. $4500 sounds good but lead acid batteries? The lithium-ion kit is more like $8500. At that price you need a vehicle that will be around for a while. For an older car near EOL it doesn’t make much sense. Then again, maybe the kits are resuseable. That would be cool.
However, bringing this back to the Grove position, if we actually behaved like we were at war, which we are but don’t seem to realize, we’d have incentives to make the Poulsen system or something like it work. But we don’t so we won’t. Shame on us.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:13 pm
If Poulsen offered an in-hub kit, I’d get that while waiting for the Volt.
I’d just worry about getting my pants sued off if it contributed to an accident in any way. So I probably wouldn’t get it.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:29 pm
#49 DonC
I don’t think the disagreement was in the order of influence of the reasons to plug-in our transportion. It was a disagreement about what the priorities are for change are, energy dependence or global warming. Andy Grove’s position is so much more obvious that it is kind of sad that Gore couldn’t see it. Plugging-in our transportation is good for all of them and puts us on a clearer path to addressing the rest as well as reinvigorating an important sector of our economy. It really seems to be a no-brainer.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:52 pm
#159 DonC:
I hear you. My problem is that I really need a truck for work, and the S-10 is just the right size. If there are not going to be enough Volts for all of us until what, 2012? 2013?, then when will there be an e-flex small pickup?
So I am thinking that there is at least a 5-6 year window. The S-10 is pretty tired – 205K miles, but I also don’t see GM coming back with that size truck anytime soon – I hope I’m wrong. So we just keep rebuilding the S-10 and retrofit it, if possible. Plus, I love the “cottage industry” idea. I have challenged GM many times to “Lead, follow, or get out of the way.”
I loved the quotes from Jimmy Carter some 30 years ago. Talk about reading the handwriting on the wall. Where is Jimmy Carter, now that we need him? Secretary of Energy under an Obama administration? We could do a lot worse. He is a nuclear engineer, you know. Maybe John McCain would appoint him, come to that.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:15 pm
146 anonymous says,
You mean, leading the world in math and science while the west persecuted anyone who dared question right-wing Christian dogma?
—–
So true, my friend. So true. Unfortunately they let their religion extremists get in the way. Well, the crusades didn’t help either, I suppose. But that was a long time ago. They need to get a grip now. Like N. Riley, I have nothing against the people. Their governments aren’t our friends. I’m Arab, and I trust Israel. I don’t trust any Arab government.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:16 pm
141 David L
Exactly. And with an integral retractable cord for convenience and antitheft purposes.
146 anonymous
Now that was funny.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:18 pm
One port in the rear, A front port is more likely to have water issues when driving into a heavy rain storm, it it is in the rear it is less likely to get wet
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Noel, 152. I looked up Poulsen Hybrid.
OMG, they are in Shelton, CT. I pass through that town every single day on the way to and from work. Finally, someone in Connecticut and not in your State (no offense).
I may stop by there tomorrow and ask around some.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Noel, 152. After reading more about it, perhaps I won’t stop.
It only has a 4.3 KWh Lithium Ion battery pack (if they go Lithium).
I don’t believe the range would work out with my 101 mile commute. Unless it is an EREV device. I think I need to read more and type less at the moment.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
146 anonymous
I have mixed feelings about the western world returning to that state of things. But hey, we seem to be going full-tilt against teaching math and science already…
—
Sad, but true. But we can always fall back on Intelligent Design.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
People are going to have to plug in day after day, which means every little annoyance in the plug-unplug procedure will become a big thing, and every mistake that can be made will be made sooner or later.
I hope the design is checked and re-checked to avoid scraped knuckles, require only one hand, be do-able in semi-darkness, and still work safely in wet weather, including rain or snow. I’m sure people can accomodate to 1 port if that’s what the design turns out to be, but 2 may be worth it just so that people can have a choice of which one to use, even if they always use whichever one they like best.
It’s nice to imagine people on an unhurried day in a big well lit space, but much of the time that’s not going to be true. There’s going to be a parent with a child and some groceries hurrying in after dark. In a way, electric connections are be a downside of fueling at one’s house rather than fueling at a filling station. On the other hand, with a really well designed mechanism, it doesn’t have to be. For example, will the car have a light in or around the connector’s location?
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
RB #169
>> every little annoyance in the plug-unplug procedure will become a big thing
Excellent point! Ever consider how hard it is to open the lock on your house door? Something that’s used so often really needs to be easy to use in less-than-optimum environment/conditions. Maybe GM should contract the recharge port to OXO, their designs are brilliant.
>> be done in semi-darkness
Forget semi-darkness. Imagine coming home after 18 hours of work, exhausted at midnight (I don’t have to imagine it… been there). You should be able to locate and use the charging port in almost total darkness after the first week of ownership.
>> light in or around the connector’s location
Around the charging port (like the light around a lot of ignition locks), with distinctive aligment points that correspond to the shape of a “typical” outdoors extension cord.
When I first saw the focus of todays thread, I was somewhat put off by its trivial nature, but some of the posts have interesting points.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
GM better be talking to all the companies that might be making charging stations in order to make sure that that the Volt is going to be compatible.
“A typical use scenario is that a subscriber finds the nearest available charging station using a navigation system. He or she parks next to the Smartlet Charging Station. For 110V charging, the subscriber will swipe a key fob to be authenticated at the station, unlocking the Smartlet access door. After plugging in the cord, the door will lock in a partially open position to secure the cord and begin charging. After charging is complete, the subscriber will scan the key fob again to deactivate the charging station and unlock the access door. The cost of the transaction will be displayed on the charging station. The driver will replace the cord into its original position and can then drive away.
For 220V charging, the cable is attached to the Smartlet Charging Station and the driver need only connect the 220V “pistol grip connector” to the car and then swipe the ChargePoint key fob at the Smartlet to enable charging.”
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/07/coulomb-technol.html#more
Will the Volt be capable of using these “220V pistol grip connectors”? I think GM better make sure that they TEST the Volt on all sorts of charging systems to find the kind of system that is going to work optimally with their E-Flex powertrains. Maybe 2 different TYPES of charging ports will be necessary. They need to ANTICIPATE how charging might be done in the year 2020 you know. I think the Volt might be a car that will last a LONG time … maybe 20+ years before it gets scrapped (and recycled of course). GM needs to do a good “lifecycle analysis” for the Volt and the other E-Flex they are planning on doing. They better do it now or they might regret it later. Heck, they probably ought to highly consider adding the capability for people to add a WIRELESS charging port system to their Volt as an option … a “wireless charging package” option you could have installed at the dealer, etc.
http://www.ecoupled.com/
GM better make sure they give the charging station companies the optimal specifications for these charging stations. Those specs could be in place for a LONG, LONG time. There will probably have to be a bunch of industry committees put together so everyone can agree on standards like they do in the computer industry. I read today that they are doing this in Japan and soon in U.S.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Oh, oh, new thread already! I’m not anti-GM or anti-Volt and I usually don’t have a bad attitude. An electric with a range extender would be ideal for me and right now I’d have a Volt in a heartbeat. I’m just irritated because I probably wont be able to get my hands on one and maybe after the first year or two, GM will decide the Volt was fun, but no longer benefits them and will drop it and just stick with pushing their 35mpg ICEs. Of course they could surprise me and come up with a decent BEV. I would probably feel better if I only visited this site every few months – it’s like being addicted to a roller coaster.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
#170 ThomC and #171 GM Volt Fan
A number of excellent points, and I agree with them, including OXO. Though they seem so minor, these are the kinds of little things that will affect owners in a way that will change how they describe the car to others, the people possibly in the 2nd wave to buy the car, and will be factors for the people who come back to buy another one in the 2nd generation.
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Life is short, Lyle. I do not think this subject is worth the discussion. We should just vote!
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:44 pm
#174 LazP — I thought that too, until I thought about it some more
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July 21st, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Yes! I want two ports, one on EACH of my new volts.
Really, I don’t care where they’re located. I just want to be able to charge when I can and do so effectively, efficiently and economically. I Got extension cords, I can work with it.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Here’s a possible downside to two ports. What about if you have your cord plugged in on the left normally and then you plug it in on the right in a different location. You’re tired and you check the left side when you return to your car. Everything is okay. You drive off and the cord goes with you. Yikes!! OK, I’ll bet that GM will have a safety to avoid that. Right guys?
In addition, I’m really hoping for a feature where you can just use up your gas. Bob Lutz mentioned having to go in to the dealer and get your gas siphoned out. That seems pretty primitive and would turn off a lot of people because of the inconvenience. I would prefer to have a “use gas” setting so that the car could empty itself once in awhile when I needed it to and then run off the battery. This way you could purge your fuel before it gets stale.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:26 pm
“Here’s a possible downside to two ports. What about if you have your cord plugged in on the left normally and then you plug it in on the right in a different location.”
That would be an interesting idea, actually.
In theory, you could run two 220v lines on separate breakers and charge the volt at 440 if it is built to support it.. thats a pretty quick charge
(I know that wasn’t your exact meaning, it was that you normally do it this way, but did it the other way once and figured it was unplugged.)
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Hmmm …. I wonder if any of us gm-volt.com bloggers lives in the San Jose, CA area and is planning on going to the “Plug In 2008 Public Night”? It’s tomorrow night starting at 6 pm.
http://plugin2008.com/conf/?id=conf_public
Maybe we could have an unofficial “Volt Nation” reporter check it out and tell us what they think about the latest things going on with plug-in (ER-EV) technology.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:35 pm
I suggest placing it in the same place the put the oil filter. Why make it easy and convienent. If you want a VOLT, you want other to not want one, right?
Ok, seriously. Here are things I read and liked plus my additions:
1) LED illumination around the receptacle, with some type of polarization marking. Cool if you could encompass the port with LED’s (use bi-color red/green), then you could also use this as a display of the charging status. Oh, I like that! LED’s are cheap and they draw only milli-amps. Not even noticeable for a Volt battery.
2) The cover on the port must NOT freeze shut
3) Safety will be a major issue. So things like not putting the outlet near the gas cap might be nice : )
4) How would handicapped people use this? This can be a real problem, since handicaps vary from mild to extreme…good luck on this, I am not touching this one.
5) Location, I have no preference. Others have good arguments, but I will live with it.
6) Also on the LED ring. You could give visual indication when a successful connection is made, like flash orange (red & green together)
7) I think one port would be best. You will never pick the two right spots anyway.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Weight of extra port ?
Why not install a 3 Cylinder engine instead of the 4
* That * would save weight but may not be as smoooooth.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:54 pm
This statement from the chief designer, kinda sticks in my craw:
“when you’re trying to do a car that’s very efficient, every ounce of aerodynamic drag is important, every ounce of weight is important, and we want to be super-efficient with all things we put on the car.”
Ok, so in our last post we had a lot of heated arguments about going from 1.0L to 1.4L, and lots of people said that this weight increase was insignificant, so now we are, according to Volts chief designer concerned about OUNCES of weight increase?
So, the switch from 1.0 to 1.4L is more than just a little change. Comparitively, this is a HUGE change, when considering the weight increase.
Just a thought…
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:04 pm
9434 on the wait list.
Hey Lyle, how about getting a dealership from GM and selling Volts online, obviously, without the dealer markup from list
?
For service everyone can go to the usual ones so they get money as well. Also to pay for the aftermarket fitting of extra charge ports.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:06 pm
After reading all these comments I just realized something…
GM will never build this car. The committe of tired old know it all men will never make a decision on the amount of plugs and production will be canceled.
Reminds me of that movie wall street, when gecko said that most of the money was wasted by all the vp’s pushing paper back and forth.
I can just see the server bouncing on the floor trying to process all the e-mail’s and copy’s of e-mails being sent back and forth by the clowns at GM trying to figure out…1 plug or 2….duh…where do you want to eat?
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Statik #25
“It’s a extreme example, but essentially that is what these changes are. We are slowly losing, piece by piece, the things that make the car special.”
*** *** ***
Statik you are the limit! I suggest you contact the people at Guiness about two possible world records…
1. The longest exhale…
2. Highest exhale temperature…
If there is any consolation for most of us it’s that if you win, the record will belong to North America!
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:23 pm
180 JEC: Handicaps include red-green colorblindness.
(Also, red+green make yellow… )
/end irrelevant nitpicking
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:24 pm
WRT the charging port and the number on the vehicle, I have this to say. CONVENIENCE. In a Utopian world I’d like one on either the driver’s/passernger’s side and another on the front.
IF ONLY ONE CHARGE PORT, I’d prefer it on the front as it’s just too easy to spell out the ease of charging in every conceivable situation for this location.
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:29 pm
N Riley,
You are right I did have a series of problems with different american cars, and the service at the dealerships.
I am willing to give GM one last try if they build this forward looking car, but I will never buy anything Ford related again no matter what they build. Those designed to break years (Ford) really put me in a bad place during college. The GM cars at least kept moving, although they cost a lot to fix over and over again.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Why not just make 2 or more ports an option that you pay extra for? That way everyone wins, GM, the Dealer and anyone that wants more ports. I would like to see the volt have a retractable cord that will not need to be removed just unplugged and close the door.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 am
I came late to this party, but I have something new to add.
How will people REALLY be using this port and cord?
I plan to keep an extension cord in my Volt so I can charge wherever I can. Hey, I don’t plan just to drive my VOLT to work and back. Overnight trips are not uncommon now and won’t be then.
So, why not place the port INSIDE under the hood? Then the cord could be on a reel of some sort or at least in a caddy container under there, ALREADY CONNECTED TO THE PORT UNDER THE HOOD. Some sort of snaps would hold the plug in place securely.
Under the hood means the port itself is protected and free from damage or unwanted tampering. And at least one end of the cord will be secure. With ports on the exterior of the car, if you are parked somewhere besides your own garage, your cord might get stolen. This way it would have to be cut into (destroyed) to be taken. With proper design now, there may not be as big a black market for stolen VOLT charge cords. Being theft prone could be a serious black mark against the VOLT in its first few years.
The on-board charging cord could be unplugged from the car and swapped out easily if damaged or a longer or shorted cord is desired. (Order the size you want with the car or buy from aftermarket?)
The cord should be a bright neon yellow, green or orange because some of the time it will be laying on the ground connected to an “away from home” charging station where people might be prone to trip on it if not easily seen.
When you want to charge your VOLT, pop the hood, grab the “power source end” of the cord and plug in. Then position the cord and close the hood. The cord should be made to fit in a small gasketed thru-slot with the hood closed. (A flip down “bowtie” might be an elegant location.)
Now for a seemingly small but very important consideration. You are going to plug in your VOLT hundreds of times each year. Won’t it be nice to only have to plug it in ONCE each time. The “car” end of the plug stays plugged in under the hood. You only have to plug in the other end of the cord to the power source. Plugging in both ends would get old in a hurry, especially in bad weather.
When you do plug in to the power source, the plug itself should have a light in it so you now you are getting current. I have an extension cord that has this feature. VERY helpful when your not assured of current. Could save you some grief to find our your power source isn’t going to charge your car overnight. Especially if you are out of gas.
With the VOLT’S port protected under the hood like this it is less likely to need a back up. And it will have almost no repetitive plug in cycles to endure. But if an extra port is added, its a good idea to have the emergency port in the trunk in case the main port is damaged, etc.
Now, lets talk about your garage and its electrical outlets. Since we will be entering the age of electric cars, spend a few bucks and get an electrician to put an outlet on the CEILING above each car’s charging spot. (There is probably already one up there for your garage door.) A optional “VOLT Charging Cord and Reel” mounted on the ceiling above your VOLT’s hood will allow you to pull the reeled cord down from the ceiling and connect it to your on-board charging cord. (The reel could be positioned so as not to interfere with the garage door.) No cords laying across the garage floor or across the car’s hood. Its out of the way when you’re charging and out of the way when your not.
And you have your on-board cord for charging at the office, a hotel, mall or at a friends house. Its in the front of your car so you can pull right up and connect it to a charging station. (Best if the car won’t start or alarms if still plugged in, I agree.)
If GM is first out with a mass-produced Electric car, what they do with the issue of ports and cords will influence the design of charging stations and accessories for generations of these cars.
As battery technology improves and gasoline gets more expensive, charging away from home will take on a much more important role.
Charging is not an afterthought. It is the lifeblood of the car and this whole transportation concept. Incorporate an ergonomic protected, flexible charging cord system into the VOLT and it will make the car that much more desirable.
If GM doesn’t do it this way, Japan will.
MikeinAtl.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 12:08 am
Statik #25
Most of the time I ignore your whining and actually love the spice you bring to the party…but this time i gotta set you straight!
If GM shows us a Chevy Cruze E-Flex and calls it the Volt we have not lost a thing…we’ve gained a beautiful Range Extended Electric Vehicle from a major automaker that will sell like mad and force the other car companies to catch up…
So if we only get ONE charging port, that’s still one more than any other car you can buy…
Lastly…I hope the Cruze IS the Volt…That’s a sweeeeeet looking ride!
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July 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 am
GM needs to make an inductive pickup.
So you can place a pad on your driveway so you can drive over it and it would auto charge. Like your your electric tooth brush.
This way you dont have to mess with the plug when you are in a rush.
This option will cost a bit extra but charge the customer. I know that other companies will have this technology so GM should start getting it ready now.
G
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July 22nd, 2008 at 4:49 am
Just like the EV-1…. TED
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July 22nd, 2008 at 6:00 am
THE PLUG NEEDS TO BE ON THE DRIVER SIDE JUST IN FRONT OF THE DOOR.
REASONS:
- You don’t have to walk across the cord to get into the Volt.
- In garage setups sometimes the passenger side is blocked due to storage until the Volt is pulled out.
- You won’t forget to unplug the Volt before driving.
- Statik after a heavy night of partying won’t forget to plug the Volt in.
Keep it Simple GM. Why would anyone want to get out of their Volt and have to walk to the other side to plug in. Electrical plug locations in garages are handled through extension cords.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 6:49 am
#185 Grizzly
“Statik you are the limit! I suggest you contact the people at Guiness about two possible world records…
1. The longest exhale…
2. Highest exhale temperature…
If there is any consolation for most of us it’s that if you win, the record will belong to North America!”
I do it all for you! Hehe. How about highest flame retardant efficiency in a human?
#191 Eric E
“If GM shows us a Chevy Cruze E-Flex and calls it the Volt we have not lost a thing…Lastly…I hope the Cruze IS the Volt…That’s a sweeeeeet looking ride!”
I honestly hope you don’t get your wish on this one. I’m sure I’m not alone in that sentiment, lol. If you don’t like my “whining,” you really wouldn’t want to read a thread that introduced the Chevy Volt as just a plug-in Cruze….there would be rioting in the streets. Hehe.
Have a good one fellas!
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July 22nd, 2008 at 8:18 am
Looking at the video of the Saturn VUE plug-in (Mark H #61), I have to say I’m disappointed to see the plug cover not very well sealed. Looks like rain can get in there and start oxidizing those pins. I’ve recently seen the VUE at my local dealer and noticed the gas cover was well sealed with a rubber rim. I think GM should do the same for the plug cover.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 9:01 am
My vote:
(1) 115 Volt charging port on driver’s side only. Possibly give option for a 220 Volt charging port in lieu of the 115 port for people who have the means of charging at 220 Volts already in their garages.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 9:40 am
I say placing 2 plugs exactly where you show it in the picture on the driver’s and passanger sides would be perfect.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 9:58 am
My town already has electrical outlets for EV’s at no cost along the parallel parking downtown (yeah, so we’re progressive) … here are some thoughts:
Why NOT to have an integrated plug: Downtown is where most people work or eat lunch or whatever but also where most lowlifes hang out … that means some punk kids or thugs are gonna cut the cord in half just to stick it to the $40k-vehicle-driving man. (They won’t be electrocuted if they’re smart enough to unplug it first.) If it’s an integrated plug, that means a trip to the dealer for a pretty major repair, depending on how accessible they make the parts that will need replacing. Definitely no charging until the repair is done, and possibly driving a rental Cobalt until it’s repaired. =/ And the whole scenario could repeat itself the next day. The cord and plug SHOULD NOT be integrated into the vehicle.
Why NOT to have a non-integrated plug: People might steal it. Or people might unplug it from your Volt and into theirs (see note below). Oh wait, there’s a really simple solution for that: Just have the cord-to-vehicle plug programmable like many car keys are now programmed to only start the car if the car & key’s programming matches. This will add an extra $50 to the price of the extra cords you buy, but you’re spending $40k on the car anyway, and it’s a lot cheaper than repairing a cut, integrated cord would be. So if you steal someone’s cord, the programming only matches the original owner’s car, so the only way to make is usable is to take it to a Chevy dealer, who can get the original owner’s info from the cord’s programming and call you to confirm you have either sold the cord or given it away. If not, they hold it & you come pick it up. Of course, once people understood that scenario, none would be stolen because there would be no point, except to trash it just to screw you, but again, if someone’s either going to steal your non-integrated cord just to screw you or cut your integrated cord just to screw you, the cutting is easier (don’t need a place to dispose of it), and presumably much more expensive as a repair instead of a replacement.
(note from above: this shouldn’t be an issue because electricity for charging cars should be free — or just tie it in to the price on the parking meter … that would mean non-EV drivers would be subsidizing EV drivers, but that’s fine because we’re keeping gas prices down for them and the air they breathe cleaner).
Why TWO ports are better than ONE (in my town at least): If I only have a charge port on ONE side, say the driver’s, I can only look for parallel parking spots along the left side of the street — and that’s only for one way streets. Parallel parking on a two-way street would mean a single port on the driver’s side never faces the sidewalk (where the outlets are). Granted, most of our parking is not parallel, but for some reason only the parallel spots have outlets.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 10:02 am
I like the idea of a flip up Chevy Bowtie or a flush port on the front (ala the EV1) – keep things in the front of the garage away from running over things on the floor near the side of the car.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 10:12 am
Drivers side near door so you don’t forget to unplug and drive away. Look how many times people forget to close their gas cap door. It’s going to be new for many of us to start plugging in…and I’m sure many will forget to unplug before driving.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 11:25 am
Where ever it is, it needs to be visible from the driver’s seat so all you blonde ladies don’t drive off and pull your wall socket along with you down the road
Or maybe there could just be a dashboard alarm to serve the same purpose, or a magnetic coupling at the car would allow damage-free breakaway of the power cord. Except for any horse owners here, nobody is used to having to untether their vehicle before departing. In the absence of measures like this, charge cord and receptical damage will happen frequently.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
#166 Rashiid Amul:
Yeah, by all means check it out. Knowledge is power.
202 comments on the plug? LOL. I guess it’s all good though. It must show a lot of interest to GM.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 1:11 pm
One driver’s side port for visibility. Certainly a cord long enough to accomodate a charger that is some distance away is necessary w/ only one port.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
TWO PORTS!!! So when one gets dinged by stupid drivers in this area, i can still charge on the other side!
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July 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
mcg,
Read #190.
Is this something that might work for you?
Mike
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July 22nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
mikeinatl #190 & 206,
I like that your cord would be easy to replace. I definitely think GM needs to make sure replacing the cord, however it is designed, is incredibly simple and could be performed by owners if desired (broken or cut cord) … but I can’t get behind the under-the-hood location idea. At one point, you argue that since we’ll be plugging the car in hundreds of time per year, let’s not also have to plug the cord into the car every time (argument against a non-integrated cord) … but instead you would suggest having to pop the hood every time? I can’t agree. Too conspicuous to perform downtown, and just unnecessarily difficult in general.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 4:47 pm
We certainly have different opinions about this subject. One, two, three or four plug-in ports. Front, both sides and rear. Doesn’t really matter to me as long as it is dependable and fairly easy to get to. I don’t plan to use public charging stations and I have easy access in my carport with electric plugs on both sides plus the ceiling. No 220 plug, but that is easy to accomplish. My first cousin is a Master Electrician.
So, GM, I hope you learned something. Every one has an opinion and there are a lot of opinions. Just let your engineers design what is best and keep the bean counters at bay. We will pay the extra cost without blinking.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I vote for an inductive floor panel that you park over.
The vehicle would have a similar inductive panel on the undercarriage.
Pull the vehicle into the garage parking over the panel and the charge sequence would begin.
Granted, it would not be very efficient.
But it would double nicely as a bulk tape/floppy eraser…
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July 23rd, 2008 at 1:21 am
Efficiency of a inductive charge pad would be excellent as I am a electrical engineer and I know transformers are 99.98 % efficient. Just look at your sonic care tooth brush. I know the EV1 has a coil or inductive charge plate,
The cool item to consider in CA there are a lot of EV1 charge stations sill around the volt could take advantage of
The only factor is the distance from the pad to the car pickup. So you have to have the pad come up a bit when it detects the charge sequence has begun. A simple electo-mechanical device would activate under when the key was installed lowering the pad. It would be very easy to do.
The problems with plugs is people
A steal power from them
B. Can get electrocuted
C. contacts wear out.
D. Resistance of contacts causing fires law suites.
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July 23rd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Realize that in the future there will be charging sites at each parking meter, so unless they put one on both sides, the charger may be unusable(or have to drag the cord across the car). Of course putting one on the front or back would suffice.
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July 23rd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
i agree that accidents happen and a redundant input is needed. (the stats folks could tell us where most bumps occur- Hey, perhaps put one on the inside as well. I trust everyone has a convenient outlet – where I grew up you would need to run an extension cord down the steps to the sidewalk where cars our parked…When you think about it, it would be kind of funny walking down the street jumping over the extension cords. Oh, I expect people will find a way to abuse this little nightware. I was also curious about those areas where the weather is foul – perhaps higher off the ground is better..
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July 23rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
A few thoughts…
As far as driving away while plugged in: All it needs is a bit of software that if the charger is connected to an external power source, it will not energize the electric drive system. And display an “Unplug Me You Idiot” message on the dashboard….
Charging port location: I can’t imagine many charging stations being available at work or in shopping malls within the next 5 – 10 years, so for the Gen-1 Volt, it is really a non issue. And if they allow a 220V charging option, I should think that most of us will have to add that circuit to our garages after we purchase, so it will be located wherever the port is located on the car.
I guess my biggest concern is that these decisions have not yet been made. I was under the impression that the Volt had already reached the “design freeze” point. And if we are supposed to see a production model Volt in mid-September at the big GM 100 year anniversary, that is only seven weeks away………….
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July 24th, 2008 at 12:57 am
Here is my quick thought.
Put one near the front center (behind the plate) of the car, in U.S. Might be one near rear center of the car for European and Asia. I notice driving habits are different. American rarely back in, but European & Asian likes to back in.
Of course, more study is required.
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July 24th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I can just see all those vue “gas handle” charge cords for sale at the local pawn shops. If you use it in a public place then you will not have it. Sad, but that is the way it is. Nobody bothers standard extension cords.
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July 24th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Are you kidding me? Get this thing on the market already…Good God what a stupid debate…Get an extension cord retards…
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July 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Just curious. How many garage door openers are in U.S. garages? There is a lot of talk of re-wiring when an outlet is already there! You could extend the cord to whatever side they install the port and be done with it. My 2 volts could easily charge from a centrally located plug in the ceiling of my garage. Why is this even being reported on. What next, GM engineers, how many cup holders? (I would like two, BTW!)
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July 24th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
2 ports / actually you can have multi port options plastic molds are common … just have symetrical molds for both sides with a cable that will clip in to either side or even into the bowtie or trunk with an interior extention chord. just have a built in power block that you can plug in other stuff while you are charging.. ie portable dvd phones ext .. you just need a center plug inside that can be routed to the location you want to plug it in with a standard extention chord ..
easily moved from left to right . might be a little trickier to go front to back . unless youve included the optional power outlet options to run camping gear from your vehicle .
oops powers out in the house plug the refrigerator into the car ..
zero mpg but emergency generators will be everywhere if volt adds this option to draw power externally from the battery or from the generator ..
besides when have you ever seen a vehicle without options ..
personally i want solar cells added to charge the car while im at work and the car is sitting in the sun baking .. the solar can be assisting to run ac or heat so the car is automatically not an ice cube in the winter and not a sauna in the summer …
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July 24th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
One port on the backside under the license plate. Improved aero. Will also encourage backing into the garage, which should be mandatory for a cool car like this. In addition to improving exiting driveway safety, remember how cool Batman and Robin were tearing out of the cave nose-first – the neighborhood kids will be equally impressed while you silently rip out of your driveway headfirst in your new batmobile…..
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July 25th, 2008 at 10:34 am
#78 Rashiid Amul
“Hey, completely off topic, but did you all know that you can find out what number you are on the waiting list?”
Thanks for the link! I’m number 4646. Wish it was lower, but it is still within the 2010 production numbers if that means anything.
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July 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
One port in the front under a hinged Bowtie wouldn’t affect aerodynamic drag. Plus it would have a lot of “cool” factor with it.
Any thoughts on how the Volt will handle in the snow?
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July 25th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
While I’d like two ports, what GM needs is to get this car out, as cheap, as efficient, as quick as possible. Make one really well-placed port, leave the two ports for next year. Unless the focus studies and money say otherwise, of course – this is just my opinion based on the Volt being inspired by the iPod model.
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July 26th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
One in front would be the most logical.
Plugs for engine heaters are located there too…
I am not sure how they manage to make an issue out of a simple detail like this.
No wonder it takes forever to get a new design on the road…
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July 26th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
One port in the front, not the side. Especially when parked in a public area, and want charge the vehicle, (just like the block heaters).
The side mounted plug area WILL get bumped and/or snapped off due to careless people who park beside your GM Volt. These are the same people who put dents in your current vehicle’s doors…
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July 27th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Less weight, always less weight.. it should be a mantra. Big deal you use an extension cord or back into your garage. You can always tape it down, buy those little plastic ramps, or just leave it on the floor of your garage.
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July 28th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I would recommend only one plug on the drivers side: a. more cost effrective b. some might forget it’s plugged in on the passengers side and drive off plugged in that might damage the car, if you have to walk by it to get in the drivers door that lessens the chance of forgetting!
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July 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
JeffJetskis
I suspect that the production Volt will not start if it’s plugged in. At least I HOPE that’ll be the case.
Be well,
Tag
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July 28th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I don’t think the charge port location is any more a deal breaker than where the gasoline fill is on a car. Mine is usually on the driver’s side but it’s never been a decision factor in a car purchase.
I can see some logic to a front location, but it’s not critical. One port should be standard, maybe two could be an extra cost option. Safety feature for preventing “still plugged- in” accidents is probably worth considering.
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