Jul 18

McCain: Eyes of the World are on the Volt

 

After getting his personalized VIP Volt tour, presumptive Republican presidential candidate Senator McCain spoke to about 500 GM engineers at the Technical Center in Warren, MI. He had apparently spent about 10 minutes at the Volt design display including getting into the concept car. In attendance were CEO Rick Wagoner, Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, and Volt VLE Frank Weber.

In his comments, he said it was his belief that every new vehicle be flex-fuel capable and indicated his support of a $5000 tax credit for each low emission vehicle sold.

He said specifically about the profound global importance of the Volt:

“The eyes of the world are now on the Volt and this will be not only be about the jobs or economy of this great and beautiful state. It’s also about the future of the world. We have to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil as a national security issue.”

Pointing to a VOLT sign he also said:

“I will do everything in my power that this new experiment, this breakthrough… has every chance of success and that we will make sure that American citizens understand what’s happening here.”

Source (Detroit Free Press), (Detroit News), and (AP)

This entry was posted on Friday, July 18th, 2008 at 11:01 am and is filed under Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 130


  1. 1
    coach

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:06 am)

    everybody , vote 4 the old ma….err .. mc cain !


  2. 2
    Serpent2

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:07 am)

    awesome.. I hope it works out if mcain is pres.. I hope he does help out gm and the rest of us if possible


  3. 3
    Aspherical

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:07 am)

    Wow. He may not win the election, but if he brings the Volt project up in the campaign and debates, both candidates will have to discuss the Volt publicly. Free advertising. How awesome is that?


  4. 4
    Van

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:16 am)

    I hope Obama makes a heart-felt commitment to the Volt and then does not flip flop after getting into office. Otherwise we are putting our eggs in one basket, and energy independence is too important for that.

    We need battery production facilities not more R&D research grants, we know how to make the first generation lithium ion batteries, using either the toyota design, the A123 design, the LG design or one of the several others in development. Once we start making them, then the field will narrow as the best proves itself and advances in design occur.

    But right now we need production facilities. McCain was a little vague on his recognition of that obvious fact.


  5. 5
    OhmExcited

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:20 am)

    God bless America.

    It’s a crying shame Bush beat him in the 2000 primary while scurrilous rumors abounded in South Carolina.

    It’s also clear that the auto industry favors McCain, especially when he goes there to give chearleader speeches to the GM troops. When Obama spoke to the auto manufacturers, he sort of lectured them, and you could hear a pin drop in the room.


  6. 6
    MetrologyFirst

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:22 am)

    With so many eyes on it, lets hope the Volt is not UGLY!!


  7. 7
    MetrologyFirst

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:25 am)

    Because if it is, the public will be tricked into thinking that “ugly” is the solution.

    The Volt must be COOL.

    Don’t bow to those who want a rolling bubble or another lame, Prius looking car. Don’t do it GM.


  8. 8
    terryk

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:26 am)

    Hang on, Obama will one up McCain. Let’s get that first and then vote.

    Obama will offer $5050!


  9. 9
    Statik

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:27 am)

    So, he didn’t see any ‘production’ Volt then?

    Just the retired ‘we are never going to show it again’ concept?

    He maybe saw a picture of it? I’d say if he didn’t see it, they probably don’t have one.

    Has anyone had GM ever actually claimed a finished ‘production Volt’ or ‘close to production Volt replica’ or a ‘paper mache representation of what the Volt will look like’?

    Or is it all just conjecture?


  10. 10
    Jim Rowland

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:28 am)

    This is great PR for the Volt. $5000 is good.
    “The eyes of the world are now on the Volt and this will be not only be about the jobs or economy of this great and beautiful state. It’s also about the future of the world. We have to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil as a national security issue.”
    I liked that part… its about time.


  11. 11
    Jason M. Hendler

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:45 am)

    McCain also just said that individuals states should set their own efficiency / emissions standards:

    [url=http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080718/NEWS15/80718037/1215][u]Link[/u][/url]

    While he is better than Obama, his ignorance of economic forces are as dangerous as Obama’s socialist “economic” goals.


  12. 12
    Jason M. Hendler

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:47 am)

    McCain also just stated that individual states should be able to set their own efficiency / emissions standards. McCain may be well intentioned, but his ignorance of market forces is as dangerous as his opponent’s push for socialist doctrines.


  13. 13
    Eric PIerce

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:50 am)

    That was exactly what I wanted to hear. I am very happy to hear one of the candidates recognizing the future of this car.


  14. 14
    READYTOEXPLODE

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:56 am)

    Electric drivetrain is the future. I just hope our politicians can see this.


  15. 15
    banjoez

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:27 pm)

    A little off the subject but I just read off the AP newswire that the new Chevy Cruze will get 45 mpg US with it’s 1.4 litre Turbo engine. IF this is true there may still be hope for those of us who can’t afford or refuse to pay $40k for a Volt. That would be pretty close to a current Prius and Civic hybrid without the batteries. I sure hope this is correct and not just hype as it would put GM back on track with an extremely fuel efficient, nicely designed and affordable small car for the rest of us.


  16. 16
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:28 pm)

    This Volt fever is highly contagious.


  17. 17
    Statik

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:30 pm)

    #11 Jason M Hendler

    McCain also just stated that individual states should be able to set their own efficiency / emissions standards. McCain may be well intentioned, but his ignorance of market forces is as dangerous as…”

    Ain’t that the truth.

    Everybody knows that California is where the bar is set…every other state/fed is inconsequencial. You can’t make the same car in 50 different variations. You make it to meet the strictest requirement and then market it uniformly.


  18. 18
    POTUS 2009

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:33 pm)

    McCain probably saw the scale model of the actual production Volt or possibly a full size clay version. Usaully a full size clay is used to generate the CAD/CAM version. Clay is still used because it is true 3D model that you can visually grasp and touch. A computer 3D rendering of a car still does not work for designers. Where computer 3D does excel is in actual testing and production. You should be able to go straight from CAD/CAM to production line.


  19. 19
    Kalifornia

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:42 pm)

    I wouldn’t use California as a role model for environmental issues. They are and have always been the most polluted state in this Country. Even with all their stricter rules and regulations they remain the most polluted. Don’t listen to somebody that can’t even clean up their own back yard to tell the rest of the states how to do business !


  20. 20
    OhmExcited

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:43 pm)

    It looks like he only saw the concept vehicle. False alarm.

    http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=mccain+volt&c=news_photos


  21. 21
    Ash

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:43 pm)

    For the very first time, I was I was running for president, then I get to see production Volt.


  22. 22
    Jeff

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:46 pm)

    Is McCain on the Volt waiting list yet? Or Obama?


  23. 23
    Paul-R

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:53 pm)

    It’s kind of amazing to think that Lyle and this web site and this site’s followers (us) may have influenced GM’s decision to mass produce the Volt, which in-turn is now affecting (a little bit) this presidential election.

    It would be incredible (in “It’s a Wonderful Life” sort of way) to see what the current state of the Volt would be if Lyle hadn’t decided to take action 18 months ago.


  24. 24
    noel park

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (12:55 pm)

    #14 banjoez:

    Did they happen to say when that happy event was supposed to happen? I thought that Mr. Lutz said yesterday that it was delayed because the Cobalt was just hitting its stride.


  25. 25
    Tim

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:01 pm)

    Forget John McCain or Barack Obama. VOTE FOR VOLT!


  26. 26
    OhmExcited

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:01 pm)

    My previous comment got filtered out as spam I guess because of the link, but the press photos clearly show McCain getting a tour of the concept Volt, not a different or production version. Search on Yahoo News for the photos.


  27. 27
    Rebuild GM

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:08 pm)

    Relax everybody, McCain just pledged to help rebuild the auto industry.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080718/D920CTL80.html

    Take a deep breath…exhale slowly…everything is going to be allright.


  28. 28
    Jim in PA

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:10 pm)

    #21 (Paul R) Says: “It would be incredible (in “It’s a Wonderful Life” sort of way) to see what the current state of the Volt would be if Lyle hadn’t decided to take action 18 months ago.”

    I think in the absence of positive feedback like this site, the alternate “Wonderful Life” version of GM would have been sledding down a hill and breaking through the ice on the river…


  29. 29
    banjoez

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:19 pm)

    #22 noel

    Looks like 2010 here, 2009 Europe


  30. 30
    DonC

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:20 pm)

    #25 Rebuild GM

    Nice catch. This is very strong statement. Hopefully this isn’t one of those instances where he wanders off the reservation and his campaign “clarifies” his position later. If it holds then we have the first true practical connection between American industry and technology, national security, and oil dependence. The coalition possibilities look good because Carl Levin will certainly be on board.

    Way to go John!


  31. 31
    Marcus R

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:25 pm)

    I’m not convinced McCain knows what he’s doing on this issue. His $5000 tax break is for ZERO emissions vehicles which the \VOLT is not and thus would not qualify for (but the super-pricey Tesla Roadster would). $300M for a battery meeting his specification is both inconsequential and insulting. If you could make that battery (which even if EEStor were true wouldn’t qualify for) it’d be in every electric car and you’d make BILLIONS very quickly.
    Neither of those incentives will help Detroit or the US Auto industry get back to profitability or create jobs.


  32. 32
    Tagamet

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:29 pm)

    It’s nice that both candidates are at least talking about the electrification of transportation. We’ll have to wait until after the election to see if it’s all mouth noise.

    StatiK, it still amazes me (and I have a GREAT imagination) that you are still in the “if I can’t touch it, it can’t be real” mantra. That’s just getting old. BTW, have you seen God? (that’s a rhetorical).
    Be well,
    Tag


  33. 33
    mien green

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:36 pm)

    21 Paul-R

    By “It’s a Wonderful Life” do you mean Sparklehorse?! Yeah, it gets more surrealistic around here every day.


  34. 34
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:37 pm)

    #30 Tagamet

    Are you sure opening up religion as a discussion topic is wise?


  35. 35
    OhmExcited

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:38 pm)

    McCain recognizes cost is an issue with the Volt. Pledges to support efforts to reduce it. See video:

    http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=8876092&ch=4226716&src=news


  36. 36
    Jackson

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:39 pm)

    One thing about McCain which has infuriated both sides of the political spectrum over the years is his willingness to “wander off” one reservation to visit another; as long as it actually accomplishes something. Conservatives don’t believe he’s conservative enough, Liberals think he’s too conservative. Maybe this willingness to “cross the aisle” and look at real problems from all angles, and a willingness to to change his mind where warranted is just what the country needs.

    Don’t be surprised to see him change his mind to the extent that the Volt is included in the ZEV rebate, or make an alteration in the conditions / application of the “battery prize.” I do not believe in this case that it’s a sign of indecision, but of a “problem solving” attitude.


  37. 37
    Jim in PA

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:45 pm)

    Alright, I want to go off-topic a bit here, having just read a few older posts on this site. What is the fascination with T-Bone’s “ingenious” energy plan? (Sorry, that would have been my nickname for him in high school). I understand the guy is obsessed with energy independence, but this is not a very environmentally sound energy policy.

    Why go through the infrastructure hassle of replacing petroleum with NG, when instead you can replace coal with NG and make the electrical grid all NG, solar, wind, and nuclear? THEN… get all car/truck engines in the US to be advanced diesel engines with high mpg (hello Volkswagon) or EREVs with diesel generators and replace the petroleum based diesel with domestically produced biodiesel. This would still achieve energy independence, but with drastic environmental improvements because you would be eliminating petroleum AND coal. Yes, the biodiesel would emit CO2, but the plants harvested to produce it will take up CO2 as they grow. So it would be more of a CO2 cycle than a huge net increase in CO2.

    Am I a freaking genious or what? Wait, don’t answer that…


  38. 38
    Brad

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (1:51 pm)

    This is great! The Volt is really getting tons on publicity. It would be nice to see Obama get a tour of the Volt as well. Really it doesn’t matter who wins, everyone knows that alternative energy is needed now.


  39. 39
    Ryan P

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:01 pm)

    I hope when they get the Volt’s TMS – Thermal Management System – up and running for testing,
    that they find (in “It’s a Wonderful Life” sort of way) that there’s “not a smitch of temperature!”


  40. 40
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:04 pm)

    Obama will direct GM in how best to build an appropriate battery car for all in our society thus improving the USA and then the world.


  41. 41
    GXT

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:05 pm)

    14. banjoez,

    I don’t like the way automakers tend to just give the highway MPG (see: GM’s PR about how many rebadges they have that get 30MPG).

    I’m sure the 45MPG is highway, whereas a Prius or a Honda civic Hybrid will do approximately that in the city. Expect the 1.4 to get more like 25-28 in the city. If so, the Prius and Civic Hybrid will still get ~80% better city fuel economy than the turbo 1.4.


  42. 42
    Casadore

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:07 pm)

    Unless Obama changes his mind on Nuclear Power Plants the Volt will die because of lack of energy. Only McCain supports both the Volt and Nuclear Power Plants.


  43. 43
    jeremy

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:11 pm)

    depending on the goverments wording the volt is a EV first and ev only design.. the ice only generates power to the batterys i know
    and that does generate some emitions… but for most americans it will be 0 emitions cuz we wouldnt drive past that 40 mile marker much
    soo technicly it can be classified as a 0 emitions auto for what95% of the time?
    see its not a clear black and white slam dunk in either court
    but u know our goverment they will get it wrong * even if they were to support tech like the volt*and we all know that is realistic of them
    and then earmarks!~
    with that said
    ud think the oil companys would realize why only insure short term providing gas to us and oil?
    youd think they would take the head out of there own butts and look at the facts oil is fastly aproaching the brink of collasp the way they are going..
    whats the odvious solution staring at them right in the face??????
    slow the consuption down but nottotally cut off the supply.. yes they can charge more for thel ittle we will use..
    whats the odvious way to achieve that? use another source of energy to offset just gas..
    electrcity seems the most viable ass its already got a big chunk done… infrastructure.. aka garages and outlets around he world ..
    put in a few charging stations per state and walla u got urself a heap of slow down u can profit for much longer
    how can those dumbasses not see that?


  44. 44
    Aspherical

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:14 pm)

    #40 Jeremy

    What?


  45. 45
    MetrologyFirst

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:21 pm)

    Aspherical @41

    He must be a pro text messenger. Only thing that would explain that post.


  46. 46
    jeremy

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:22 pm)

    meaning the oil companys are better served ….by endosing the volt in a big way
    the consuption of oil would go drasticly down right?
    the oil fields are drying up… the volt would delay that by atleast a few years * when ramped up*
    for keeping up profit margins they would charge more per galon of gas.and thus maintain there profits.. longer .. keeping those investors happy


  47. 47
    mien green

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:31 pm)

    37 Shawn Marshall

    Looks like you’ve been honing your blade in the wee hours of night as well.


  48. 48
    George K

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:34 pm)

    #7 MetrologyFirst
    “The Volt must be COOL.

    Don’t bow to those who want a rolling bubble or another lame, Prius looking car. Don’t do it GM.”

    I agree with you. That said, if it turns out it isn’t cool looking, I hope at least it is distinctive and people can see that it’s a very, very different car.


  49. 49
    mien green

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:47 pm)

    You know, every time I see one of those capitalization or punctuation challenged posts I can’t help but think of Archy, a literary bent cockroach who used to jump off the top of a typewriter onto the keys to give them enough force to strike each letter, a laborious process that discouraged extemporaneous punctuation, much less leaving no means to capitalize letters.

    ‘Course this was a little cockroach that performed above his means. Quite the dichotomy, whot? Coherency is entirely another issue but maybe somewhat related. Still, I can’t help making the comparison. I’m getting old…


  50. 50
    mien green

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (2:56 pm)

    And here we go again with the “looks are everything” posts. “Make it a muscularly poised vera vera chic PW, okay? Oh, and of course aerodynamically efficient, too. Of course.”


  51. 51
    MetrologyFirst

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:08 pm)

    George K @45

    GM has an unbelievable opportunity here, with the world soon focused on this car, to really make a statement about where car design, electric car design specifically, is going in the future. PLEASE don’t blow it!

    If the production Volt is a Prius clone, or something worse – it looks like the other soon to be released electric offerings from Mitsu and others, we will have seen the future of electric cars for years to come. The other manufacturers will be breathing a big sigh of relief, especially Toyota. The public accepts the ugly cars and thats all we get for a long while.

    If it more closely resembles the concept car, still keeps its styling cues and is a desireable, cool looking car, it will change everything. The other manufacturers will be scrambling to produce something just as desireable, and the car buying public will have some style to chose from in the future. Put a cool looking Volt beside a Prius or any other competotor’s electric car soon to be offered, and the Volt is the hands down winner. That will have to change for them to compete, and we get great looking, fun cars in the future. GM is leading the electric car revolution then.

    Good design costs the same as bad design. Which will it be?

    Mien Green @47:

    Who said anything about it having to look “muscular”? The Volt concept has many styling cues. The Volt does not need to be a super effiecient aero design. Why is that so hard for some to understand? The Volt exterior design is a choice GM will make. Not one dictated to them by constraints of aerodynamics. Only if GM chooses to bow to the aero fanatics. 40-45mpc or 30-35mpc makes VERY little difference in the end. Do the math.


  52. 52
    Joe OBrien

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:14 pm)

    McCain is just saying what his handlers have prepared for him. If he wins, it’ll just be a 3rd Bush term. God help our country this man does not win.

    We need a change from the dead end spiral we are in.


  53. 53
    N Riley

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:16 pm)

    #37 Shawn

    “Obama will direct GM in how best to build an appropriate battery car for all in our society thus improving the USA and then the world.”

    Step aside LG Chem and A123. We now have a new battery expert. Obama “will direct” GM………..

    How naive. Neither Obama or McCain know anything about batteries. They are politicians and only know what it takes to get elected. Period.


  54. 54
    Statik

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:21 pm)

    #30 Tag

    “StatiK, it still amazes me (and I have a GREAT imagination) that you are still in the “if I can’t touch it, it can’t be real” mantra. That’s just getting old. BTW, have you seen God? (that’s a rhetorical).
    Be well,Tag”

    For a guy who ends his posts, “Be well” that was certainly mean…and uncalled for. How would you expect me to respond to this? How would you respond if I randomly replied to you in this fashion?

    Not that I have to justified what I post on, but I am talking about the prototype here (my post #9). Nothing to do with the validity of the Volt program. I doubt the existance of a working prototype right now, which is perfectly valid and topical.

    I further asked if we have a quote from anyone of authority saying they had completed it…again, fair ball.

    And it’s “not getting old”…because it was the subject of the VERY LAST THREAD. (For the record, I believe, as I have all along that GM will build the Volt. You post here all the time, you know thats how I feel).

    “BTW, have you seen God? (that’s a rhetorical).”
    –Was this necessary? What purpose does it serve?

    Be kind,
    Statik


  55. 55
    N Riley

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:31 pm)

    #49 Joe Obrien

    And the alternative is better? Neither represents the best of their party. In a three legged race they would come up short. Both candidates are media creations. The media favored each very heavily during the primaries to the detriment of the other candidates. Even so, there was not much to chose from in either field. That is a sad fact for our country. The best and brightest refuse to run because it is such a grueling process beset by people just waiting to tear you and your family apart. So many people are very willing to destroy a person for the sake of insuring we do not get a good president. When it is all over we are left with the ones favored by the media because they have been protected from undue criticism.

    Now that the primaries are over, the real media favored candidate will emerge. That is usually the one that will do more to destroy our national fabric than the other candidate. Now, let’s just wait and see who the media favors.

    I always vote against the media candidate.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:32 pm)

    #47 mien green
    “And here we go again with the “looks are everything” posts”

    #45 George K
    “That said, if it turns out it isn’t cool looking, I hope at least it is distinctive and people can see that it’s a very, very different car.”

    I don’t think looks are everything. But at a 40-45K price point I think it is a necessity to be pretty attractive, or as George K points out, distinctive and very different.

    The Prius can get away looking like a nerd’s shoe, because it is ‘relatively speaking’ dirt cheap (21K) for its MPG compared to it’s peers and gives you the ‘greenie bump’ premium.

    This can continue for it even into the next gen…but Toyota is also putting out a Lexus cousin, which will be priced much higher. The visual standard to which it (the Lexus) is held, will be….and should be much higher to gain real traction/exposure in the market.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:36 pm)

    I don’t think theres anything ugly about the Prius.
    Many of you might find this odd as well, but I think the Chrysler 300 is ugly as sin.
    Its front grill looks like it came off a chicken coop.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:37 pm)

    #51 Statik

    Did GM not say they would show the production prototype in September? If so, they must have it fleshed out by now. It is almost August. I have been looking at the included picture of McCain getting in the Volt and can not say for certainty if it is the concept or prototype Volt. Can anyone?

    Statik, no one doubts your sincerity of your comments. I don’t think Tag meant any harm by what he said. I think you both balance each other very well. Of course, that is just my opinion.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:46 pm)

    #34 Jim in PA,

    you want to replace coal with NG? Okay hotshot, go drill it and find it. There is a reason we use what we use. Our NG supply is not limitless. Although there are some very promising reserves what do we do when we have shortages? Rolling national blackouts?

    We have enough NG to generate 1/5 of our power, or do 1/3 of our transportation. I”d love to see that grow. But we also have to work with what we got. Windmills & Solar—> Displace NG in our Grid —->NG replaces a portion of our oil. I think to unclog the business logic they should levy a small tax on ng and use the revenues to finance long term, sunsetting tax credits for wind and solar. Then simplify and fast track zoning and other regs for wind & solar, & ng vehicles. Then sit back and watch the market snap into action. No need for mandates etc…..

    Diesels: I wish these tree huggers would shut the hell up on diesels. If they really are so great why aren’t we all driving them? Why is the price of diesel now higher than gasoline? Look, you can not roll out shore to shore diesels b/c only 1/4 of a barrel of crude is diesel fractions. In fact in the early 1900s, refineries dumped gasoline in rivers as a waste product from diesel (heating oil) and kerosene recovery. Its part of the reason some one was incentivised to design an engine that could run on this ‘free’ product. That’s the market at work. The ignorance of hard science among these enviros who are ultimately discussing science, is just stunning. But thats our education system isn’t it? to teach environmental science as a ‘humanities.’ But I digress.

    In short, there is a reason we use 3 times as much gasoline as diesel. Oh yeah, if you’d been paying attention to t. boone, who by the way is an accomplished geologist and petrochemical specialist you would know that.

    There is a lot of BS floating around out there. Like if we all bought diesels life would be dandy, or lets build a hydrogen highway. The powers that be and have a lot to lose from kicking the oil habit love it when people believe in the impossible.

    oh and by the way, NG does not mean you have to always be tethered the gas station. You can fill up in your house. the zoning for ng filling stations should not be difficult, many shopping centers and muni parking lots could install them. something like just over half of all states currently product some NG. NG can be recovered from trash, waste treatment, and can be extracted from coal gasification. It scares the crap out of the oil companies, believe me.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:49 pm)

    McCain’s visit to GM was a huge coup for GM.
    If they can get Obama in there too, so much the better.

    GM is spending hard-found dollars during a very difficult time to create something extraordinary.

    I hope they can do it for GM, for the American car industry, for the US and for the environment.

    It would be great to see GM back on top of the auto makers world.

    Besides, I want a Volt.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:52 pm)

    Statik @53

    Don’t forget also that the Prius is the only game in town if you want a decent sized car with some room, and top of the heap gas mileage.

    That changes when the Volt shows up. The question is then how much redesign, visual or otherwise, of the Prius will Toyota have to do to compete in the same game as the Volt, or risk being the butt of “Nerd’s shoe” jokes in the future? That depends on GM’s final design of the Volt. They can either makes things easy for Toyota by neutering the Volt design or really tough, by keeping the Volt style most people were attracted to from the start. It really depends on what direction GM takes the production Volt design.

    The costs issues are real too. But if cost were really the big issue for most, the world would be full of 35mpg, $13K Hyundais. Hard to justify the extra $10K for even a Prius, if you ask me. Since Hyundai only has couple % of the US car market, something else is more important to a majority of the public.

    But your absolutely right, at any price above $30-35K, the Volt needs to impress people with its looks as well as its technology.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:55 pm)

    #55 N Riley

    “Did GM not say they would show the production prototype in September? If so, they must have it fleshed out by now. It is almost August. I have been looking at the included picture of McCain getting in the Volt and can not say for certainty if it is the concept or prototype Volt. Can anyone? ”

    I remember the thread myself. But there was some discussion as to Rick Wagoner’s statement of “Production prototype very soon” was actually not what would be shown next…there was someone out a week or so later saying something about it being a “representation of the Volt or a skin” in a another discussion?

    I honesty don’t know if we have had a soild statement/release on it. We have been all over the place here the last few months, I have kind of lost track of fact and fiction on the topic.

    If anyone out there knows, and can point out a GM source on just what GM has got accomplished now and/or what exactly we might see at the 100th shin-dig I would (and probably a few others too) would appreciate it. Honestly, I always thought the ‘true production’ model was slated to bow at the Detroit autoshow.

    You’d think if they had one completed McCain would get to see it? Seems reasonable…but maybe there was ‘too many eyes with his entourage’ and they didn’t want to risk a leak? Don’t know.

    /or as you say, we can just wait out the month and a half in suspense


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:56 pm)

    Statik,
    N. Riley is spot on when he says that I did not mean to be mean to you. If you are not the Resident Doubter here, I don’t know who beat you out of the position. I was trying to say that that role was just tiring me out (on top of all the other bad GM news). Obviously, you were hurt by it and A) I apologize for that, and B) that was never the intent. The meaning of RHETORICAL obviously meant that part was never meant to actually be addressed.
    Be well,
    Tag


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (3:58 pm)

    There was no official word on the production look – it was just heavily “hinted at” that it would be revealed at the centennial.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:03 pm)

    #59 Statik

    You probably are correct. I do remember the Detroit Auto Show being mentioned as the place to see the production model. But I thought they were going to “show” the final design at the 100th. Probably not an actual production model that you could sit in and feel, but a picture or pictures that would show the design. But, I am so mixed up that I am no longer sure of it anymore.

    And to think, we still have 28 months of this to contend with. I am not sure I can stand it that long.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:07 pm)

    hello fellow volt-nationites (volt-nationiuns)

    this link blew my mind, 30k for a 100KW motor that runs on permenant magnets for years and year of free power.
    http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm

    I belive nuclear to be a poor choice for power, let’s take up gore’s challenge to be have a carbon free power system (that will not radiate large parts of our continent).

    what is wrong with some socialist doctrines, here in saskatchewan they seem to work just fine.

    obama-rama and go volt (hope it works @ -30C with a windchill of -50)


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:08 pm)

    #60 Tagamet

    From an interested third party, thanks for clearing that up with Statik. I knew you would, but I had to speak up, also.

    Now, if we could get some real good Chevy Volt news to munch on over the weekend, that would be great.

    Go GM and Go, Go, Go Volt.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:12 pm)

    #63 STU

    Is it believable?


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:14 pm)

    N. Riley,
    Thanks again. Usually, when I’m mean, there’s absolutely no doubt (g).
    If nothing else, the good news today is all the news pieces about he volt visit. I’ve seen at least six. Oh, and don’t forget my (total) speculation that the Volt will be out before 11/2010.
    Be well,
    Tag


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:14 pm)

    Joe Obrien (#49):

    How soon we forget. Does anyone recall that at about this time four years ago, the rampant speculation was that McCain would change parties to become John Kerry’s running mate?

    Real conservatives almost gag with laughter, and their eyes bug out with disbelief when someone says that he’ll be Bush the Third. They gave him the tag “RINO:” for “Republican In Name Only.”

    If Obama wins (and I think that’s likely), it will be because disgusted Republicans stay home and sit on their hands, come election day.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:16 pm)

    I am a 30-something that hasn’t driven American since I was 16. I will buy this car! Too bad they gave up on the EV years ago. Life would be different for GM. They’ve got a great concept here. Hope they don’t blow or lose their nerve and make it boring. Hopefully they can’t beat the Japanese to market with a better overall concept. Good Luck GM! Get the VOLT to market ASAP!!!


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:36 pm)

    50 N Riley

    Shawn Marshall was being sarcastic, a pointless political jibe at Obama correlating to nothing in fact, or what he affectionately calls “knife sharpening”.

    48 Metrology First
    “40-45mpc or 30-35mpc makes VERY little difference in the end. Do the math.”

    Amazing. How can I even begin to argue that logic? It’s now obvious that GM is floundering because they didn’t focus on cool enough looking cars and trucks for the money they were asking. Ummmm…. can you help me set up the equations, tho?


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:38 pm)

    I think both candidates should drive up to the podium in a red, white, and blue Volt in their respective conventions… Play some John Mellencamp and the Ray Charles “America the Beautiful” song. Invoke some patriotism!


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:38 pm)

    #68 Brad L
    “Hopefully they can’t beat the Japanese to market with a better overall concept”

    I think (hopefully) you meant “CAN”?

    Regarding tax breaks for low emission vehicles, I absolutely disagree. In a free market the best solution wins. If the electric cars succeed it will be because it is the best solution to a problem. If they want to give people a tax break, then just reduce our tax rate.

    The government should not be taking our money, to give it back to us. If you think that makes sense, then realize that you would be lucky to get back 50 cents on a dollar, after the government finds a way to spend most of the “rebate” in creating and distributing the rebates.

    This rebate business sounds American pie tasty, but it tastes like crap.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:40 pm)

    Oh god! Yes! CAN beat the Japanese! Thanks JEC.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (4:51 pm)

    Wow, not even this will allow me take McCain seriously. And Lyle keeps posting about this clown. I should stop reading this blog so I don’t get angry.

    Please let the politicians do their pandering in the mainstream media, and let this blog be about the car!


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (5:00 pm)

    Statik #9

    “So, he didn’t see any ‘production’ Volt then?…..He maybe saw a picture of it? I’d say if he didn’t see it, they probably don’t have one.”

    *** *** ***

    They’ve definitely got one, the design has been finalized according to GM. McCain didn’t see the final design because there is no way with all the press it could be kept under wrapps for the unveiling in Sept.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (5:18 pm)

    Many excellent posts in this thread, 4, 6, 8, 15, 18, 20 and on and on.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (5:20 pm)

    How do I email Lyle? I think you all may be interested in this link

    http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2008/07/eestor-beyond-permittivity.html

    Sounds like GM better hop on board or they may miss the ship.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (5:21 pm)

    Reading through this thread there certainly is a lot of talk about he aesthetics of the Volt. Personally, I don’t know how Lutz, Wagoner or the Board could possibly sign off on an ugly Volt. To some, only the original concept will suffice, but for everyone else I’ve got to believe from the peeks and the progress photos of the latest Delta platform, this will be an attractive vehicle. It HAS to be an attractive vehicle!


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (5:22 pm)

    52 N Riley
    ‘Pears like today’s my day to be critical of other posters on our Volt site, but I just can’t let this one go by:

    “Now that the primaries are over, the real media favored candidate will emerge. That is usually the one that will do more to destroy our national fabric than the other candidate. Now, let’s just wait and see who the media favors.”

    Interesting correlation you propose. Was George W a media favored candidate? Did you vote for him?


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (5:39 pm)

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (6:48 pm)

    mien green @69:

    Come now. It’s not that hard. The difference in mpc is 10mpc. Lets say you drive 50 miles to work. Thats 10 more miles/day on the ICE. Thats 50 mile/wk on the ICE for the cool Volt vs. the bubble Volt. Volt gets about 50mpg on the ICE, that’s 1 gallon of gas extra per week. About $4. Electricity is about $1. So thats 3 bucks a week more spent going from 45mpc to 35mpc.

    If 12-15 bucks a month is a deal breaker, then you shouldn’t be buying a $35,000 car anyway. Don’t hamstring the first Volt design by going too aero. It just doesn’t matter that much, it appears to me.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (6:52 pm)

    #25 Rebuild GM:

    Yeah, I’ve sure got a warm fuzzy feeling.

    #27 banjoez:

    Thanks. That’s what they have been saying, but I got confused (I hope) by Mr. Lutz’s comments yesterday.

    #30 Tagamet:

    Well I’m getting to where I don’t believe it unless I can touch it either. They drive you to it in the end, the stories change so fast. “Believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see.” You can’t go far wrong.

    Reminds me of the old Cheech and Chong routine about the Hari Krishnas at the airport:

    “Have you heard the word of God today sir?” “Yeah, yeah, I talked to him this morning.”

    #64 N Riley:

    If you want a bit of good news, look at the wire story on the Yahoo page about what the price of oil did this week. I think that maybe the OPECers have started following this blog, and seen the handwriting on the wall!


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:02 pm)

    If the eyes of the world are on the Volt, then we have the front row seats. Thanks Lyle!


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:04 pm)

    the price of oil droped.. because congress was talking about speculators… they got scared and some them bailed out..
    end of story..
    after a few weeks they will prolly return.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:22 pm)

    #79 LiPower:

    Thanks for the cool link.

    #80 MetrologyFirst:

    “Form follows function.”

    “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

    I will be disappointed if it appears that styling trumps aerodynamics. I think that advanced aerodynamics is part of the statement to be made here. I like the MiEV, for example.

    #83 jeremy:

    No doubt, but it’s fun to watch. Talk about mixed emotions. I hate the price, but all of us have been through the cycle where the price drops back and we all go back to sleep and buy new Suburbans.

    Fool me 2 or 3 times, shame on you. Fool me again, shame on me.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:39 pm)

    New video of John McCain recorded July 18, 2008 in Detroit, seated in front of the Volt concept car, talks with a news reporter from Michigan about the Volt and related issues:

    http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8699341


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:42 pm)

    80 Metrology First

    Gasoline period is a deal breaker for me. I want to get as much of an EOR as I can before the ICE kicks in. Everything toward that end is excellent design and a feat of engineering. “Cool” doesn’t play that predominently in my little bailiwick of values. I figure that I’ve already been laid plenty.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:43 pm)

    Wow Bush 2.0 is interested in the volt. I’m sure that he didn’t mean what he said that the auto industry doesn’t need any goverment bailout.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (7:48 pm)

    #69 mien green

    I think I’m with Metrology First on this one. It’s sort of a Fisker Tesla kinda thing in that it expands the universe of buyers. The Prius has a six month wait list, and I’m sure the new Honda hybrid will as well. These are bought by certain types of people. Better educated, more technology savvy, and higher income. Like the story on the Tesla said, the foiunder of Tesla noticed a lot of driveways with a Porshe and a Prius.

    The Volt will hopefully appear to this crowd of course but also to a more middle class, more rural, car buyer. The key to this will probably be design. In this regard I’d say a design which is less obviously Prius-like would be a plus.

    The other point you should keep in mind is that once a car gets good mpg, getting slightly better mpg doesn’t really move the needle. It’s the law of dimishing returns in action. Even on an ICE car, getting 50 mpg rather than 45 mpg only saves you two gallons of gas a month. The savings with a Volt would be much less than that.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (8:26 pm)

    An Inconvenient Truth

    Even with this $5000.00 incentive, the Volt will still cost about $37,000. That drops the monthly payment for a Volt from about $800.00 a month to $700.00 a month, allowing for a 60 month loan, no trade-in, and nothing down. Still a lot of money compared to a $23,000 Civic hybrid, which is still a lot of money at $23,000. Maximum Bob needs to work overtime to get the Volt’s costs under control. $40,000 is luxury car territory – the Volt needs to be affordable.

    Why is California so polluted if it’s on the cutting edge of automobile enviromental standards? Simple – it’s the poor. The men and women we don’t like to talk about here at Voltnation, the ones living paycheck to paycheck. At Voltnation, all the posts tend to be all about “ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!”, so self-centered it’s almost sickening.

    The poor buy your cast off junkers for $1,800.00 because it’s what they can afford. Neither McCain’s or Obama’s proposals will help these good, but poor, people. These junker vehicles, often ill maintained by the first owner, belch pollution into the California air, and the Volt ( being unaffordable at $42,000 or so) will do nothing to help the poor.

    How many people here at Voltnation? 30,000? There’s a hell of a lot more poor people than 30,000 in Los Angeles alone. Most driving barely functional, blue smoke belching junkpiles. To do anything meaningful about pollution, you have to do something about the drivers of the most polluting cars on the road. It’s common sense.

    Both McCain and Obama need to promote a program to replace these junker cars (most older than 10 years) with small, but very efficient new vehicles. You would see a dramatic reduction in pollution if this was done. The poor need your help to buy low pollution cars. Then they can help us reduce air pollution. Ask your congressperson what they propose to help the poor afford new, less polluting cars. You have 28 months of spare time until the Volt rolls out. Will you help, or is it everything still all about “ME, ME, ME”, when “they” need your help so much?


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (8:38 pm)

    I’d vote for McCain if Bush wasn’t a republican. This country needs a change so bad that I just really have no interest in voting republican. I liked the governor, Bush, but the President Bush sucked! Maybe that is because the Lieutenant governor has more power in Texas.

    Besides, the tax credit for the 1st, 2nd and every generation E-REV (til the cost of batteries are significanly lowered) should be $7K.

    If Obama says that, he is deadlocked as my vote.


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (8:46 pm)

    #63 Tag

    I figured you were not intentionally trying to hurt me. Honestly, I’m not so concerned about it. I was moreso concerned about how newer ‘third parties’ who read that…what impression of myself would they come away with. We, as always…are cool.

    And I’ll grant you, I am the resident doubter, hehe. I’m a pessimist. I accept my role openly, lol.

    Everybody knows I have doubted the price, the concept car, the production dates, the quantity, the solvency of GM, etc. etc. I have doubted pretty much everything GM has said since Wagoner/Lutz stood beside the car over a year ago and said, “Here is the Volt, we are 95% sure we are going to build it” (And history so far has been on my side, so I am not unjustified in my position, lol).

    But, like yourself (and most here), I do believe it will be made, and I believe in the project as a whole. Any company that makes a attempt at being a ‘early adopter’ of this technology, should be commended.

    Thanks for reply saying there was no bad intention, I knew it, but it’s nice to set things straight on the boards.

    …and you should get some rest, because your going to get really, really ‘tired of my role’ by the time you get your new Volt, hehe. As Doc would say in Tombstone, “…I’m in my prime”

    /Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya


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    Jul 18th, 2008 (9:08 pm)

    STU 66
    We here in the United States are not inclined to perscribe to a socialist state; if you are happy to have it in Saskatachewan GOOD. Keep it there! We are the land of the free and home of the brave and I for one intend to keep it that way.
    Oh by the way. I’m a 20 year veteran and fought for my country to keep it free from tyranny and socialism.
    Here’s the kicker, I was also a nuclear operator/engineer in the US Navy and consider myself somewhat knowlegable of the subject. On balance those who speak of nuclear power in negatives don’t have a clue about what it is or how it operates.
    About our politics (U.S.). By all means feel free to comment but just remember your vote doesn’t count.
    My apologies in sounding so mean to my Canadian neighbors but when I hear someone talk about socialism and suggest that it works “in part” in Saskatachewan it boils my blood. And by way of infering that Obama is as close to a socialist as they likely get in the US well…. kudos. You are right. Guess who I’m voting for?
    Now, can we get off the politics and get back to our work here, that of promoting and discussing the Chevy Volt!


  96. 96
    omegaman66

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (9:36 pm)

    #93 jes

    Bush is only a partial Republican… look at how he is handling the immigration issue. Even told Texas to follow the UN’s demand to stop the execution of 5 convicted rapist/murderers. Thankfully Texas told Bush and the UN to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.

    Heck Bush has even sided with a drug dealer over our border patrol agents. The two from the highest profile case are still in jail for doing their job. If you want to know the truth about what crap Bush is pushing just do a google search for “Amero”. Enough to make me want to puke.

    And McCain is a republican in name only. He has more incommon with the Democratic party than he does with the Republican. So this election there really isn’t a Republican running.


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    jes

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (9:49 pm)

    #96 omegaman66
    “And McCain is a republican in name only. He has more incommon with the Democratic party than he does with the Republican. So this election there really isn’t a Republican running.”

    Is that why I actually agree with some of his politics? I was just telling one of my friends the other day that I really wanted to vote democrat, but McCain’s policies are not too bad.


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    NZDavid

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:24 pm)

    And . . . From the ‘We want to keep the Volt out of Japan’ department.

    I do agree with the standisation of chargers though.

    A total of nine automakers and motorcycle manufacturers will take part, as well as six battery makers and Tokyo Electric Power Co.. A draft of the standards will be developed under the lead of an organization affiliated with the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry. The companies aim to pitch their specifications to the International Organization for Standardization, with the goal of creating the global yardstick for lithium ion batteries in vehicles.
    Source:http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/07/japanese-compan.html#more

    A new day another 2 billion $ on your oil import bill. hehehe.


  99. 99
    law

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:25 pm)

    #92, victor

    “”[An Inconvenient Truth
    Even with this $5000.00 incentive, the Volt will still cost about $37,000. That drops the monthly payment for a Volt from about $800.00 a month to $700.00 a month, allowing for a 60 month loan, no trade-in, and nothing down. Still a lot of money compared to a $23,000 Civic hybrid, which is still a lot of money at $23,000. Maximum Bob needs to work overtime to get the Volt’s costs under control. $40,000 is luxury car territory – the Volt needs to be affordable.]””

    I agree the volt would be best if it were affordable, but they should sell the car for the exact amount that they can in order to balance supply and demand, which will also help save the company from bankruptcy. Once production levels get into the 500,000 per year range the price should drop. If the 1st gen volt is $60,000 and they sell all 10,000, more power to them!!!!

    “”[Why is California so polluted if it’s on the cutting edge of automobile enviromental standards? Simple – it’s the poor. The men and women we don’t like to talk about here at Voltnation, the ones living paycheck to paycheck. At Voltnation, all the posts tend to be all about “ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!”, so self-centered it’s almost sickening. The poor buy your cast off junkers for $1,800.00 because it’s what they can afford. Neither McCain’s or Obama’s proposals will help these good, but poor, people. These junker vehicles, often ill maintained by the first owner, belch pollution into the California air, and the Volt ( being unaffordable at $42,000 or so) will do nothing to help the poor.]””

    So should Chevy sell the volt for $1,800 to all the poor people in the country? How is your friend Chavez doing? He has a lot of fairy tale dreams also, but the results are that grocery stores lack chicken, milk or dairy products, eggs and many other products in Venezuela. Who cares if a chicken costs 10 cents if the shelf never has any chicken. You know what they blame that on? The uneducated socialist morons say the tourists are eating it all. Take a South American and put them in the USA and what happens? They become successful, so there is no excuse to be poor in the USA. The poor in the USA, who I honestly think should get off their butts and struggle to gain an education and get somewhere will simply NOT be driving their “$1,800” vehicle because of the price of gasoline. The poor should not even own cars, the poor should ride bikes and walk in fact the massive obesity among the poor would probably reduce thus solving problems in the health care system.

    “”[Both McCain and Obama need to promote a program to replace these junker cars (most older than 10 years) with small, but very efficient new vehicles. You would see a dramatic reduction in pollution if this was done. The poor need your help to buy low pollution cars. Then they can help us reduce air pollution. Ask your congressperson what they propose to help the poor afford new, less polluting cars. You have 28 months of spare time until the Volt rolls out. Will you help, or is it everything still all about “ME, ME, ME”, when “they” need your help so much?]””

    They [the poor] need to buy a bike (probably steal a bike) and get some exercise, the junkers they drive should be sent to recycling plants because they can’t afford $10/gallon gasoline. We need a $6 /gallon tax on gasoline, that is what will reduce pollution, not some stupid buy all the poo’ a small car socialist fairy tail. Learn something from Europe.

    The poor are poor for a reason, they are lazy and feel entitled to not work and get stuff for free, uneducated and many don’t respect education, corrupt, such as one who was apparently entitled to take my bike a few months ago. The poor do not deserve a new car, they deserve to walk.


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    Paul-R

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:27 pm)

    mien green,

    Sorry, I don’t know what Sparklehorse is.

    I was referring to the 1946 film by Frank Capra:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It’s_a_Wonderful_Life

    It’s usually considered a classic in the USA.


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    mien green

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:33 pm)

    Paul-R

    I knew you were; I was just having some fun with it. Do yourself a favor and get their CD.

    http://www.amazon.com/Its-Wonderful-Life-Sparklehorse/dp/B00005NNF4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1216442155&sr=1-1


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    bleachkit

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:39 pm)

    I have news for all of you. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies. Republicans support the oil companies.


  103. 103
    LazP

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:46 pm)

    Hey Hey
    I am 95th on Lyle’s wait list!! I hope I am ahead of McCain or Obama. With McCain’s offer of $5000 subsidy I will certainly consider buying one.


  104. 104
    Ed M

     

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    Jul 18th, 2008 (11:50 pm)

    This was a great speech by McCain. He’ll be our first Irish-American president since Kennedy.


  105. 105
    jeremy

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:13 am)

    NO LAW .the poor for the most part work 14 hour day shifts at work stand on there feet all day and get spit on by upper class swine no better then us only that they have a different job.. big deal
    pay us for the hours and effort we really are worth and wed proly be higher paid then u .but i do admit some drug adicted and crooks ruin our reputation.. but hey.. theres plenty of that in the corperate world.. isnt there?.. yes its filled with them .. soo i wouldnt talk much bud ..but for arguements sake i know theres alot of poor people but..
    someone has to work those service jobs the food industry jobs how about sanitation how aboutautomotive? theres plenty of other industrys including farming that 99% of the workers are poor
    BY WAGE .. the bosses decide to cut the wages or to not inflate with the rest of the world and not her their profits… how is that.. our choice to be lazy? not by effort most of us try hard and are not big fools. wanna try workin my job once? udwhine and quite before break time gaurrented


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    Jeff M

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:15 am)

    McCain “eliminate our dependence on foreign oil”

    This guy just doesn’t get it! We need to elimate our dependence on OIL period, be it foreign or domestic! It’s not just a matter of national security, but also economic security, and environmental security.

    Meanwhile the Republicans have blocked a bill to require oil companies to explore/drill for more oil on Federal lands they’ve already leased.

    I’m watching McCain right now on Conan O’Brian…. Conana is asking him about the $300M prize for an EV battery…. now McCain is talking about eliminating the 18 cents/gallon Federal gas tax (meanwhile the roads/bridges that that money pays for will continue to collapse), and his pushing Bush’s off shore drilling…..

    …. he just mentioned visiting GM’s Volt development… though it did sound like he called it the “Vote” instead of “Volt”


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    Mike-o-Matic

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:22 am)

    I’m also watching McCain on Late Night with Conan O’brien. Did he just say “OUT IN A YEAR OR SO??!?”

    Freudian slip? Didn’t sign the NDA? Simple goof? Or what?

    Let the rampant speculation begin!!!


  108. 108
    law

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:44 am)

    [NO LAW .the poor for the most part work 14 hour day shifts at work stand on there feet all day and get spit on by upper class swine no better then us only that they have a different job.. big deal
    pay us for the hours and effort we really are worth and wed proly be higher paid then u .but i do admit some drug adicted and crooks ruin our reputation.. but hey.. theres plenty of that in the corperate world.. isnt there?.. yes its filled with them .. soo i wouldnt talk much bud ..but for arguements sake i know theres alot of poor people but..
    someone has to work those service jobs the food industry jobs how about sanitation how aboutautomotive? theres plenty of other industrys including farming that 99% of the workers are poor
    BY WAGE .. the bosses decide to cut the wages or to not inflate with the rest of the world and not her their profits… how is that.. our choice to be lazy? not by effort most of us try hard and are not big fools. wanna try workin my job once? udwhine and quite before break time gaurrented]

    Nope, you cannot judge a person to be poor based on wage or based on some government set poverty line. Poor has a lot to do with what you do in life and the choices you have made. A person who makes 35,000 /yr who pays 4 child support payments, has a huge diesel pickup and a house he couldn’t afford is probably more poor (and deserves to be) than a person making 15K /yr who doesn’t own a car, no baggage and rents a room in a house for $300 bucks/month (that was me 4 years ago now I have a university degree) and I had plenty of extra cash with 15K/yr but I saved and spent it on tuition. In fact every time I meet a truely poor person I notice that their life choices put them there. The truely poor live check to check (work or government) and they consume in such a way that they never have any extra money and they get in debt. It isn’t really that hard to put yourself through college nearly fully time by working a low wage job if you make the right decisions, keep the consumption down and sacrifice. That means no getting drunk, no vehicle (use bus or bike), find a cheap room and no humping around making babies, work hard save up for tuition, study hard. That’s my story.

    Some poor south american is in your city right now working hard living very cheap saving up, taking classes to supplement his worthless south american degree, and he is going to be some poor american fool’s boss soon. Right now some stupid red neck is sipping beer, living in a McMansion cookie cutter suberban house with a payment that is too high for his budget, because he thinks that is a necessity, while the south american guy is renting a room in a house for cheap and sharing it, the red neck has a huge pickup because he thinks it is a necessity, the south american is using bus and bike, and the redneck is complaining about them there ferners taking their jobs, because he can’t understand that you can easily get somewhere if you live significantly under your budget and that you can in fact live significantly under your budget if you make good decisions in life.

    In fact it is a full invasion, people form all over the world, I don’t see any asian indians getting welfare checks, in fact they run hotels and gas stations, you might be working for one right now.


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    Eric E

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (2:25 am)

    McCain just got my vote.


  110. 110
    omegaman66

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (5:17 am)

    mien green
    “republican support the Oil Industry”

    Call it what you will but it would be more accurate to say the republicans support the economy… of which a large part is the oil industry. Funny that the republicans in general want… and have wanted for years to open up more areas to drilling but have been thwarted by the democrats. Yet all you hear about is how the republicans don’t have an energy plan…. heelloooo we have been following the democrats plan for years now.


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    RB

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (7:31 am)

    Statik N.Riley Regarding the concept v production car:

    I think that GM officials did say that GM would not show the concept car any more, without saying just when they would show the production car, or if “showing the production car” meant showing a car that actually worked or just a car that looked like the production car. I think it is fair to understand GM’s statement to mean that at the 100th or Paris or any public car show GM will no longer show the Volt concept. Beyond that, I don’t think anything else was definite, it all was inference and interpretation by wise commentators [ volt nation 🙂 ].

    So I take it that the production car is not as of mid July at a point where it can be shown to VIPs, but I don’t think that conflicts with anything said earlier.


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    mien green

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (11:00 am)

    110 omegaman66

    You obviously have me confused with another poster. But practiced obfuscation and misdirection are not really surprising, including your insinuation that the Democrats are somehow behind the mess that we’re in today. Chaney led a task force in 2001 conducted in private that led to Bush’s National Energy Policy, which had extensive and exclusive dialog with lobbyists and representatives of the energy and utility companies, included frequent meetings with Lay of Enron. A class action suit in federal court finally forced those records to be made public. And of course the Iraqi War is all about terrorism and exporting democracy. Hellooooo yourself.

    If it was my mantra you were responding to it would have been Republicans want more money. Republicans want more money. Republicans…


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    Jeff M

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (11:31 am)

    omegaman66, yea, blame it on the Dems, even though the Repubs had control of all 3 branches for years, with an ex-oil man for President, an oil man for VP, a secretary of State who was on Chevron’s board and even had an oil tanker named after her, a Chief of Staff who was the CEO of the AAMA and after that the VP of Government relations for GM (as an aside Andy Card was also instrumental in killing CA’s ZEV mandate), and so on….

    You at least summed up the current admins, and apparently McCain’s energy policy… just drill more oil, keep our addiction to oil, of which even if we drilled on all our shores, we still wouldn’t be able to meet our demand, never mind that it would only have a limited effect on prices which are set by the world’s market, not ours. And anyone who thinks releasing even more carbon dioxide in just a couple hundred years that took millions and millions of years for plant life to capture does not have an effect on global warming, can go trying breathing another colorless & oderless gas known as carbon monoxide (just because CO and CO2 can’t be seen or smelt does not mean they are harmless).


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    Tagamet

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (11:41 am)

    Statik,
    Glad we’re ok. Thought we were.
    Be as well as you can be (g),
    Tag


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    Pastor Kurup

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:16 pm)

    Dear Gm,
    Way to go..my vote is for McCain..Too long..we had been the prisoners of oil producing nations.GM shoul make it available for the middleclass to be able to afford it and McCain administration should give a big tax break on it.
    Go GM GO,
    Blessings.
    Pr.Kurup


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    noel park

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:23 pm)

    Bad to worse.


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    Jackson

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:41 pm)

    Getting off imported oil makes for a good start at getting rid of all oil. What can be done to get off the rest of it with an additional $2B a day to spend on alternatives?

    But of course, some of you seem to think that all one needs is for the ‘right man’ to wave the magic wand of political ideology and dump it all overnight.

    Volt-watchers and McCain supporters were robbed. The only news I was able to see featured less than 2 seconds of soundless footage of the Chevy visit buried in a discussion of Obama’s trip overseas.


  118. 118
    srschrier

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (12:58 pm)

    Video interview of Senator John McCain talking about the Volt and related issues at GM’s Volt Development Center in Warren, Michigan. July 18, 2008.

    http://www.woodtv.com/global/story.asp?S=8699341


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    omegaman66

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (1:52 pm)

    Jeff M

    “just drill more oil, keep our addiction to oil, of which even if we drilled on all our shores, we still wouldn’t be able to meet our demand”.

    Drilling at home doesn’t mean not kicking the addiction to oil. It is dealing with reality that with the price of oil well over 100 dollars a barrel we are shipping truck load after truck load of money out of this country when it doesn’t need to be!

    If you really want to kick the oil addiction that takes time and money. The more money we ship overseas to pay for oil the worse our economy will become. The worse the economy is the harder it will be for us to spend the money to go green.


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    Tagamet

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (2:30 pm)

    We should be shooting for the point where we have tapped every drop of domestic oil and are exporting 98% of it! Granted, it’ll take time for the electrification of transportation, but the sooner we get started, the better.
    JMO,
    Tag


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    Jim C

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (2:57 pm)

    It is wrong that GM (helped?) snuffed out the electric car. Mccain is on target-just show GM the money. However the free market will adjust to keep oil competitive with advances in electric vehicle technology. Therefore, keep an eye on the importance United States energy independance and environmental concerns to figure out the struggle of the internal combustion engine vehicles vs. the electric vehicle (oil vs. electric).

    During the 70’s I went to a car show ant there was a seemingly older Fench 4 door sedan that was an electric car…Does anyone have info?


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    Rashiid Amul

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (3:19 pm)

    Sounds good to me. A $5000 tax credit is better than nothing.


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    Brian M

     

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    Jul 19th, 2008 (9:42 pm)

    I saw McCain on Conan O’Brien’s show last night and he mentioned the Volt. The funny thing is he stated that GM would be rolling out the Volt “in a year or so”. I’m not sure if he was confused about the timeline or if he inadvertently divulged some secret information….

    To see the interview, go to Conan’s website:

    http://www.nbc.com/Late_Night_with_Conan_O'Brien/index.shtml

    Watch the episode from Friday, July 18th. McCain starts talking about energy at 28:30 and mentions the Volt at 31:30.


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    Vector 256

     

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    Jul 20th, 2008 (1:40 am)

    #105 jeremy – well said. Don’t worry about #99 law, he sounds like an avid Rush fan – God forbid one cent of his taxes be used to help anyone but him. Also note how he pulled his “broad brush” out when painting all of the poor as bums and criminals.

    I have to give #99 law one thing – at least he came out and said that It’s all about ME, ME, ME, ME, ME! ( I say “he” because few women on the planet could be that self-centered and selfish )

    Most of the other posters probably looked straight through my original post without noticing it, because most people don’t want to see the problem of the poor. It’s always easier to ignore a problem than do something about it. And just like the oil problem, the longer it’s ignored, the worse it gets, and the more expensive it is to fix.


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    STU

     

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    Jul 20th, 2008 (11:23 pm)

    i understand. i do go to far with that “socialist” term. it is true that i know little to nothing about nuclear power generation. but…. universal heath care anyone?

    i sent and email to perendev-power, about free power thing and am waiting for a reply. but man, i have some pretty powerfull magnets at my place and someone somewhere has to be able to turn a genorator with em’.

    welcome to the electron economy


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    Jim in PA

     

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    Jul 21st, 2008 (7:42 am)

    #59 #DE,

    First, I recommended we replace coal with NG and make up the difference with nuclear. Therefore NG reserves don’t have to equal coal reserves for this to work. Second, my recommendation of diesel is with a focus on developing biodiesel, thereby rendering your petroleum fractionation argument irrelevant. Third, you ignore the fact that NG used in large power plants is 60% efficient, whereas its use in automobile ICE would be more like 25% efficient. Therefore, the most efficient use of NG is in the power grid, which in turn it can charge electric car batteries during off-peak hours. And finally, your claims of limited NG reserves completely ignore the future promise of CBM (coal bed methane) and coal gasification, both of which promise to use coal resources in a different manner by combusting derived methane gas instead of coal directly. You give it brief lip service it in your closing, but only after ignoring its substantial impacts in your previous arguments.

    All in all, your facts are mostly good as individual pieces, but I don’t think you are applying them logically and coherently with regard to an integrated energy plan.


  127. 127
    ObamaMama

     

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    Jul 21st, 2008 (7:51 pm)

    Mccain is a flipflopper. He wasn’t doing all this talking 6 months ago. Now, all of a sudden, he is for the environment and renewable energy? It’s all b.s. Paid for by oil!


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    Joe Army

     

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    Jul 27th, 2008 (9:44 pm)

    Why do people keep asking whether it was a production or a concept car? It was obviously a concept car, they just decided which fuel extender to throw in the vehicle. Does that sound like a car in production? It will be a while before they get all the pieces together, they are still shopping for factories.

    Other things that bothered me –

    “Republicans want to keep you addicted to oil” That’s rediculous Bush has been saying for eight years that we need to reduce our oil dependance and look for new sources of energy. If we had drilled for domestic oil eight years ago we wouldn’t be in this mess. Of course it won’t meet domestic demand, but it would definitely help.

    “We need more solar and wind power” I think that green is as great a dream as the next guy, but that’s what it is just a dream (at least for the forseeable future. I looked into solar for my house, and for a system that would accomodate my needs it was going to cost $40,000. Do the math, at $100 per month in electricity, it would take decades to recoup the cost of that system. Wind power is more economical, but you would never be able to power anything worthwhile with it.

    So for the vehicle problem, the solution seems simple. Go nuclear! Nuclear is clean(ish) and with more plants you could power all the electric cars in the country. Vote McCain. The only limitation to our nuclear energy output is the number of plants we have, which sadly we havn’t built one in decades.

    You should probably support nuclear power if you want an electric car, because otherwise your car is actually getting it’s electricity from coal, which is not very ecologically friendly. Just saying, it’s a bit hypocritical.


  129. 129
    ObamaMama

     

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    Jul 27th, 2008 (10:05 pm)

    Here is a VERY educating video. If you want to know what’s going on, watch the entire video.

    The Non Energy Crisis by Lindsey Williams.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147


  130. 130
    The Big Three « econ101.de blog

     

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    Aug 18th, 2008 (12:45 pm)

    […] (I don’t know if Mr Lutz supported Hillary, but it looks like he supports McCain now and not Obama.) […]