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John McCain to Visit Chevy Volt on Friday
July 16th, 2008 | Posted in: Politics
It has been known that John McCain has been planning a trip to Michigan to meet with GM CEO Rick Wagoner this Friday. It will be the first time the two men meet face to face. Obama recently met Wagoner at a conference.
Word has just come out of GM that McCain will meet Wagoner at the Warren Technical Center. He will be given a tour and will be shown the Chevy Volt.
I asked a high-ranking GM source if McCain will be shown the concept Volt or the yet-to-be-unveiled production Volt. Their answer, an intentionally ambiguous "Yes."
I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Either way it has become very clear that energy utilization and the electrification of the automobile are going to be an important centerpiece of this year’s presidential election.
Source (Detroit News )
Popularity: 6%
(5 votes, average: 5 out of 5) 
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Posted by: Lyle
July 16th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
This is great news. Yesterday Obama talked about how important electrification of vehicles and now McCain gets to see a Volt. Maybe he’ll pressure the Republicans in the Senate to let the bill with the incentives for the Volt out of committee.
Yeah!
July 16th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
This is great. I’d like to see both candidates looking at the Volt.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
GM is smart to court politicians. They can influence tax rebates and such to help offset the end users costs of a product like the Volt.
I wouldn’t mind my tax dollars going to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I personally think McCain is insincere. What was his proposal again? $300M prize….PRIZE….for battery technology. Whatever.
Obama wants to INVEST $150B over 15 years which is $15Billion/year.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
mcain said earlier in the season about a battery reward and such then obama fired back yesterday nowe mcain tomarrow..
nice
hope its not just all talk
July 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Any ink is good ink.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
McCain and Obama both realize the urgent need for alternative energy…….That’s a BIG plus !!!! …..Let’s hope they have enough influence on goverment to get something done before the November election !!!!! …….Time is of the essence….GO GENERAL MOTORS …………GO VOLT….
July 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Mr. McCain should od the following:
1). Pledge no financial help to GM to boost its bottom-line or avoid possible chapter 11.
2). Give GM or any company vehicle purchasing credit should they sell PHEV or EV
3). Change the way business conducted in this country, give tax credit to company or investors if they invest in long-term projects.
4). Increase tax rate to 60% on short-term capital gains such as those proceeds from wall street (less than 12 month), also increases the tax rate on people who get proceeds from buying and selling home. Those who bid up home prices and later sell them for big profit are no different from those who rob the banks.
5). Pledge absolutely no help to those who are in mortgage default after buying a home >6 times of their gross income.
6). Send those wall street gangsters who bid up oil price into jail.
I think this country is going to lose its edge. Today GM and Ford is suffering, tomorrow it could be Intel, Cisco or Boeing. Regardless of their different financial situations. They share one thing in common, they are only interested in short-term gain, if there is foreign competitors who are like Toyota, they will be in trouble. Prediction: In 3-5 years, Cisco will be in trouble.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Noel
They even spelled the name right. LOL
Take Care
Arch
July 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
He should tell them to get it out ASAP…we need it now.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
#8 Gary
That looks like the concept vehicle to me.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
What is that “Obama Finished” ad doing on this site. If this becomes another divisive political blog, It looses all credibility. The point is to focus our leaders to act on a proactive solution to our transportation problem. Keep it there!
July 16th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
There is so little in this country we can all agree on. It’s encouraging to see both presumptive nominees adopt electrificaton of the automobile, and only argue on how.
Hope they’re not just blowing smoke.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Talk, Talk, Talk. I appreciate their interest, but does anyone remember all the candidates “flat tax” programs they outlined two presidential elections ago?
After the election they were never heard from again.
Hell, I think we should dump massive subsidies into battery research and production. I can even come up with a plan that will look good in a 30 second commercial and news articles.
If only I was running for president, I could make hollow empty promises…..
July 16th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Gary #8
If you look closely at the headlights they are the same size and look sunken like the concept. We know that the production model has flush headlights that wrap around.. Maybe we can get more info on this.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
F Deras (14),
Lyle doesn’t select the ads on this site. They are chosen by his service provider’s algorithm (Google AdSense?). The keyword “Obama” is probably the reason you are seeing that ad.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Were there Obama ads on the posting about him? I don’t remember.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
What would Sen. McCain ask Rick Wagoner …
“Will you sell this car in Czechoslovakia ?”
Seriously, it would be good if Volt is gets some media play this way.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
An astonishing number of people still haven’t heard a thing about the Volt.
Someone I know runs a dock service on a local lake. When he pointed out that there’s less boating with gas prices so high, I started to wonder out loud about Lithium Ion batteries from the Volt project being used to power electric boats. He just looked at me.
After I explained, he didn’t say much; but I could tell he was highly skeptical.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Dennis #16
Yes it is a lot of talk. Both candidates have talked about new sources of energy and change, but neither has outlined any sort of workable plan. It’s politics as usual.
That said, it’s still good that the Volt will get some more publicity, and both candidates are aware of the vehicle.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Gary #8,
Thanks for the post even if it was deleted, the picture looks pretty slick to me.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
I’m glad Senator McCain is going to see the Volt site at GM. (Is there a Volt site at GM?) It is good for everyone if both McCain and Obama know as much as they can about the possibilities for electric cars.
As for the Volt itself, it seems to exist more and more for PR events such as this one, rather than as a future production vehicle.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Glad both sides have seen GM’s new toy. Tax credits are going to be pivital.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
#4 Daveo,
I really wouldn’t tout the Dem nominee’s propensity to give speeches regarding huge government expenditures to be the gold standard of “sincere” if you are smart. If I had a dollar for every $15 billion he has proposed to spend I could retire tomorrow.
I think the “prize” for battery development is an excellent idea, though I agree $300 million is far too little to spur competition not already spurred by the market. As someone posted, we would all benefit if the candidates agree on E-REV’s importance and have an issue oriented debate on how to make it common.
While we are at it, I would love to see either candidate pound a podium behind a mandatory flex-fuel requirement for all new car’s engines sold in the US within the next 5 years being capable of running on methanol and ethanol along with gas. That’s a big government policy everyone should be able to see the value of.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
#8
Have some faith in America man! Intel was in deep dudu a fear years ago when AMD was basically mopping the floor with them. They innovated their way out of the mess and now they are market leaders again. Apple was almost extinct a decade ago and they chose to innovate their way out of their mess. GM seems to have chosen the same route with the Volt. GM has chosen to innovate their way out of disaster. It’s a smart choice, I hope they make it.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
We all know why he is really there. He wants to plug his idea for a nuclear powered range extender and an option for a drilling attachment for the drivetrain. Isn’t that obvious?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
#20 Grizzly
“Yes it is a lot of talk. Both candidates have talked about new sources of energy and change, but neither has outlined any sort of workable plan. It’s politics as usual.”
That’s because a workable plan will require a massive effort by the top minds in the world. The candidates and their staffs are not qualified to come up with a workable plan. Hopefully they will be competent enough to know that a massive project is needed to come up with that plan. The Apollo Energy Plan.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
_____________________________________________________
I have a high level of confidence in the American people.
Government is not able to get us out of the deep hole we are in with regards to America’s dependence on foreign sourced energy. Any promises from politicians to effect meaningful change on this energy issue has the same relevance as all the past promises the politicians have made during each past election cycle.
This is as it should be because truthfully it is the collective contribution of each of us that got us in this foreign energy dependence hole; the government did not put a gun to our heads and force industry and private individuals to make decisions that have lead us to this place.
The power of change is in the hands of you, me, Lyle, Lutz, the VOLT Team, the Tesla guys, the Aptera guys, the A123 battery innovators, the kid coming out of college with the next best idea, and all the other innovators and doers of this great country of ours.
Ten years from now every new car sold in America will be EV/EREV, batteries will be cheap with 5X+ the capacity they have today, nuclear power will be understood as the practical answer to energy generation, and America will be a net exporter of energy. Each one of us will contribute to get us there; the power of one.
______________________________________________________
July 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
McCain has for years been a republican thorn in oils’ side. He does have some long range ideas and not just an instant fix. Obama has to wait for the powers to be to give him a nod before he suggests anything; and then it’s too little too late. Barr may be the political answer!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Dinosaurus #25
Very good points, and they will make it. When successful companies like GM get too comfortable in what they do, the conditions are ripe for disaster.
Now that they’re trying to leap frog the pack, its uncomfortable for them but if they succeed they’ll be on top again and companies like Toyoto will have to try even harder. For years America has had cheap gas and there was no need to do anything better. So Toyoto carved out a niche that appealed to the economy minded drivers. Now just about everyone is leaning this way and GM is doing something to address this demand,
July 16th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Texas #27
“That’s because a workable plan will require a massive effort by the top minds in the world. ”
*** *** ***
I don’t think an “outlined” plan for a sustained path toward energy independence exactly requires the” top minds in the world”. It’s actually pretty straightforward, it just requires a little thought and some balls. We have more energy alternative sources available to us and more that can be developed than anyone.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
“Have some faith in America man! Intel was in deep dudu a fear years ago when AMD was basically mopping the floor with them. They innovated their way out of the mess and now they are market leaders again”
That’s not a good thing.
.
AMD is the “David” that took down the “Goliath” (Intel).
Before AMD came in, Intel could sell their products for whatever they wanted, practically a monopoly. Now they’re back at it, with “inferior tech”, but because AMD is a whole ~10% lower in performance than Intel, people flock back to them. (AMD has the superior processor, it’s just not quite fast enough to beat intel’s pseudo-quads) .. but this is about the volt, not computers
Intel is like GM, then along comes Tesla (AMD) and blows them away. Then “Intel” is forced to make the same product as “AMD” in order to survive (64 bit, then dual core). If this story plays out in the same manner, GM will be on top again, with Tesla closely behind.
The only difference in these two scenarioes is that the “little guy” (AMD) was cheaper than the “big guy”, not 3x more expensive, like in the case of Tesla vs Volt
July 16th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Last month McCain proposed a $5,000 tax credit for buying a zero carbon emissions vehicle. I hope Mr. Wagoner takes him for a ride in a mule, and then asks if the Volt will qualify for the credit.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
#8 Gary
I asked the editor if that picture was the production
Volt. He said,
“No. It was taken by our graphics designer at the debut of the Volt concept. Our guy is Chris Pauwels who does great work with photoshop and concept
renderings. This one, is from the official concept show date of January 2007.
Thanks,
Josh E. Oliver
Editor”
July 16th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
2Snowboard #24
Just to yank your chain:
“I really wouldn’t tout the Dem nominee’s propensity to give speeches regarding huge government expenditures to be the gold standard of “sincere” if you are smart. If I had a dollar for every $15 billion he has proposed to spend I could retire tomorrow.”
Seems like a piece of cake given the savings he can count on. Let’s see …. 100 years in Iraq, 12 months in a year, $12B a month. That’s over a 100 of those $15B programs. I don’t think Obama has proposed more than that number, has he?
Fun aside, I think $300M is more than sufficient. The technical problem I see is that it takes talent and experience to organize these things. The X prize group took years to work out each of its prizes, including the Automotive XPrize.
Strategically, and far more importantly, is that the idea for the prize sends a very strong signal that the technology for the solution doesn’t exist now. That is absolute nonsense. If every vehicle on the road were a Volt or Volt like vehicle oil demand destruction would be effectuated. We do no need to wait. We need to wake up and stop waiting for the offshore oil fairy or the magical technology bullet.
Go GM. Go Volt.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
This is the second article about McCain and yet no articles about Barrack’s initiative to encourage electric car development!
July 16th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
id say more like..
gm was goliath but toyota is david
with its hybrids
makes mroe sense imo
July 16th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Texas, what do you think the range on a nuclear powered Volt would be? I wonder 50, 100 maybe 200 years! That would be great! Oh wait might be a bit costly too
July 16th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
DonC,
100 years in Iraq? Whatever, must be some talking point I missed. If you really are honestly telling me that Mr Obama, were he to actually have the responsibility of governing, (God forbid 100 times) would be spending significant $ amount less per month regarding Iraq, simply because of troop changes there, then I have a oil rig in Illinois to sell you that produces limitless, refined sweet crude extracted entirely from the concept of Hope and powered by Change.
As to the question of whether he has proposed 100 programs of $15 bil or more, the answer is Yes.
$300 million does not cover the R&D needed to engineer a practical electric vehicle the likes of which McCain described in the proposal, were a major company to have not already been looking in that direction. If you doubt that ask GM. The technology unfortunately does not exist quite yet, hence our, and so many other’s, participation on this forum. I agree that if every car on the road were a Volt like E-REV our dependency would be broken.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
I take that “Yes” to mean that McCain will be seeing both vehicles, and perhaps even a mule. I truly hope he gets to drive a mule.
What’s funny is that both Obama and McCain are in the Senate, so there is nothing Harry Reid can process with hurting or helping both candidates at the same time. So far, FISA and war funding has caused Obama to irrevocably flip flop through his only current power, a Senate vote. If Harry Reid tries to process green legislation, Obama and McCain will both benefit, so I guess nothing will get done.
I guess McCain will have one upped Obama by being seen with or in the Volt.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
#16 Ben:
“Lyle doesn’t select the ads on this site. They are chosen by his service provider’s algorithm (Google AdSense?). The keyword “Obama” is probably the reason you are seeing that ad.”
This is the very good reason to SHUT UP talk on this site about the candidates and FOCUS on the REAL important topics: design - batteries - range - speed - competitors - cutting edge technology - affordability - incentives…..
I for one could do with a lot less blathering and more hard information, and I bet the GM employees tracking this blog could too (if they truly are reading it).
July 16th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
It looks like both candidates are pro-EV, so I don’t think it will matter much to Volt enthusiasts who becomes POTUS next year. He should at least give battery makers some big government subsidies just like the oil, wind, solar companies get and those transfarmers get. BTW, a transfarmer is a farmer who crows his crop to convert to ethanol (not food for the hungry).
July 16th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
#19 Jackson:
“Someone I know runs a dock service on a local lake. When he pointed out that there’s less boating with gas prices so high, I started to wonder out loud about Lithium Ion batteries from the Volt project being used to power electric boats. He just looked at me. After I explained, he didn’t say much; but I could tell he was highly skeptical.”
YES! I happen to have heard about a company that builds electric boats, I think it’s called the DUFFY BOAT CO. and you should Google it.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Since the invention of the wheel, man has been racing. So how long before we start seeing organized EV racing ? You know its coming. But When ? Like maybe an Indianapolis EV 200.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:02 am
#44 EV Racing
Organized EV racing? It’s happening now! 1/4 mile drags, both cars and motorcycles. Google “Killacycle” to find out. 0-60 in Zero-point-ninety-seven second.
They don’t do rally sport … yet.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I am thinking more like NASCAR which requires only cars that are in current production. I know they only “look” like the cars you can buy at the dealer, but they used to be pretty much stock when they first started.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:14 am
35 ThombDbhomb:
Dang. I guess you’re right… damn Photoshop jobs! I thought it was a sneak peek at the production model since the roofline (i.e. windshield) looks higher, the mirrors look slightly larger, and those fender flares aren’t really noticeable in “daytime” photos.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Racing would allow American companies to strut their stuff. For Example, everyone knows the World’s Fastest Production Car is made in America, by an American Company, with American Components. It’s called SSC Ultimate Aero TT. Made in America BABY ! I am sure the USA could build the World’s Fastest Production Electric Car (it may already be the Tesla, but not sure).
July 17th, 2008 at 1:19 am
EV Racing. I can imagine a day will come when we have EV racing, EV Rallye, EV formula one, EV nascar…
… and even EV monster trucks. We’re already part way there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDU5BU_qSJU
July 17th, 2008 at 2:07 am
I’m curious as to know, if polled at random, how many people would know what the Volt is.
And how many would drive an electric car if its cost were comparable to the petro counterpart.
July 17th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Daveo #4,
Wow! Some of us are in such a hurry to denigrate Mr. McCain. How much is $150 billion divided by 15 years?
July 17th, 2008 at 3:15 am
i was watching a show on the speed network tv channel
pass time series.. there was a white Ev truck and everyone guessit would do a 12 or 11 second 1/4th mile
it was like. 8.1 sec time
everyone was shocked he had like 30 some batteries in the back of his pick up lol but hey it worked
i think it was faster then the tesela at the end mph
July 17th, 2008 at 3:54 am
Someone is moving. The iMiev is being rolled out a year ahead of schedule! Now if they could only do something about the price. It is not very pretty, but I could actually drive to work and back with the all electric range it has.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/mitsubishi-i-miev-electric-car-launch-japan-2009.php
July 17th, 2008 at 5:06 am
Competition, Subsidies, Candidates interested, Racing world seein em, we live in such wonderful times. I want my Volt soon. By the way what was GM stock at today?
July 17th, 2008 at 6:35 am
I hope they let McCain drive a Volt test car. I would like to see some real passion from him on electric vehicles, the answer to energy independance.
July 17th, 2008 at 6:45 am
#53 Len — Mitsubishi moving faster than expected with the iMiEV is a reflection of Mitsu’s good work and also a cause for optimism for Volt fans, for it shows that no intractable problems have occurred in Mitsu’s development. Indeed, it suggests that the development was less difficult than expected. Maybe Lyle can make some friends there so that we can have the inside scoop on what is happening
GM has control systems involving the integration of the ICE and battery, so that is more of a challenge than the iMiEV, and ultimately the Volt is a more complicated (but potentially much better) car. Even so, the rapid rate of development of the iMiEV suggests that GM will not find unexpected roadblocks on the battery side.
What Mitsubishi does seem to have, but GM not, is a firm battery contract, perhaps with another arm of themselves. Maybe GM can get the battery contract resolved before too many more months go by. There is so much internal turmoil at GM headquarters these days that I am not optimistic about anything requiring HQ action for the immediate present, but maybe in a few weeks they can give a little time to Volt business once again. If not, the iMiEV will not be as good for Volt fans, but there is a lot we can do with it.
July 17th, 2008 at 6:54 am
While discussing politicians involvment in energy policy, I would ask that you write your congressional representatives urging them to repeal the $.54 / gal import tariff on Brazilian ethanol made from sugar cane. This would immediately reduce the price of gasoline in the USA. Agriculture lobby and Iowa politicians among others have prevented this to protect grain farmers.
July 17th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Smoke, mirrors, and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain…
Not to be too negative…sorry, I could not exist; but it sounds like a great photo opportunity for the McCain campaign. Hopefully, people in the McCain camp are inspired with the best ideas to assist with making electric vehicles more ecomonically viable.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:00 am
#51 hermant
I was merely pointing out that it is a lot more money reoccurring for a decade. Whereas Mr. McCain’s prize is a one time shot. And thanks for pointing out my mistake. It’s actually $150B over 10 years, not 15 - in clean energy.
#24 2Snowboard
“if you are smart”…hmm….. Trust me, I get your point. You could have left out the remark and still achieved your goal.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:02 am
While we wait for members of the media, hopefully including the good doctor, to take a spin in the Malibu mule in July, and the unveiling of the production design in September, perhaps Mr. McCain can find out when and where the battery production facilities will be built.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:37 am
#60 Van — Yes, good point. I hope Senator McCain will ask about the batteries, where they will be built, and how many. Maybe he also can ask when the first production models will be available for purchase.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:40 am
#60 Van — will they be trying out a mule or a prototype production car? (Assuming the event still will happen, of course.)
July 17th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Could someone please remind me, if the Volt is going to save me so much money on gas, why does the government need to be involved? They didn’t tell me to add insulation in my attic. I did it because it made economic sense. And if the Volt is going to be so great, I don’t need gov’t to subsides it.
Can you believe the lithium ion batteries have been developed for laptops with minimal gov’t subsidies? They achieved this because consumers wanted it. When gov’t gets involved, all this does is steal resources from behind my back, and then inefficiently reinvests them.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:04 am
#63 Cautious The government does not have to be involved, as electric cars will happen anyway. With well structured government involvement (which is asking a lot), electric cars will get here faster. That is what is happening in Japan.
Philosophically, I think government involvement is a good thing if there is a bona fide national interest, as well as individual interest. To me that is the case for electric cars. Like you, though, I am cautious, as I realize that there are details, and lobbyists, and everyone looking out for their own interests, not just the national interest.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:06 am
#50 jes — right at this moment I think most people would shift to electric if the costs were about the same. That’s because right now people are so angry at gas prices.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:08 am
DonC #1
“Maybe he’ll pressure the Republicans in the Senate to let the bill with the incentives for the Volt out of committee.”
I thought only the committee majority and/or chairman could keep a bill stuck in committee. How can the minority do so? They don’t have the controlling votes.
I’m just asking………
July 17th, 2008 at 9:20 am
#8 Change America
Prediction: In 10 years with policies like you espouse, America will be in big trouble. Some of what you say is ok, but not anywhere near what we need. Your name “Change America” speaks alot for what you espouse. The problem is it would change America the wrong way.
McCain and Obama do not have enough influence in their party to suggest changes with any real expectations of having them carried out. McCain is an outsider within his own party. That is good based on how the Republican party has changed over the last 10 years. Obama is so lacking in knowledge and experience in congress, that what he says is totally ignored by the party leaders. If it don’t fit the liberal agenda, it is dropped like a hot potato.
I would not look for any help from either of the presidential candidates. Their focus is on saying the “right” thing at the right time and getting elected. After the election, depending on how all the elections shake out, the president may or may not have any real influence with the congress.
Our congressmen are really good at getting re-elected. They are the ones we need to influence. When it comes to a choice of being re-elected and losing, they will say what it takes to get re-elected. The problem comes with keeping the “heat” applied to their bottoms.
July 17th, 2008 at 10:36 am
#41 Ryan P:
Amen.
Is it just me, or is the level of political “white noise” going up substantially here in the last few days? Pretty boring, IMHO.
July 17th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I’ll keep my eye out for an old dude driving a Malibu test mule tommorrow. Can you even drive when your that old?…..
July 17th, 2008 at 10:55 am
#4 Daveo
$150 Billion over 15 years is NOT $15 billion / year its 10..but if you don’t believe me can you lend me some money?
July 17th, 2008 at 11:17 am
I am not American. But let me be suprised how Polywell project was handled in US. It seems that government is acting against basic interest of United States of America. Not funding such fundamental research project is universal crime.
July 17th, 2008 at 11:49 am
#64 RB
Do you truly believe gov’t involvement will get a SUSTAINABLE product to market quicker? There are many industries where new innovative products get to market very quickly because you can make a business case justifying it. The only time gov’t gets involved is when the business case doesn’t make sense. And to your point on national security, I would agree but this, despite everyones assertions, is not going to change national security. Whether subsidies exist or not, transition away from oil will happen because free makets will make it happen and a subsidy is not going to meaninfully affect it. It’s just a way of padding the pockets of one corporation at the expense of the others.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
#72 Cautious
Like you, I am cautious. Historically, I do think that government incentives made a huge difference in the creation of American railroads, for example. More recently, gov’t involvement made a huge difference with computers. In Japan it has made a huge difference in autos. So yes, I do think gov’t involvement can make a constructive difference for sustainable products. At the same time, gov’t action can be a boondoggle where some people get richer and the expense of others, but not net benefit, or a negative net benefit. I’m not sure it is wise to overgeneralize. If one looks at housing in the US as affected by Fannie Mae, one sees both markedly positive and markedly negative aspects, all in one.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
#45 Ryan P
The killa cycle is below 7.85 sec in the 1/4 mile, not the 0.97 seconds as you posted that is the 1/4 mile in less than a second, that equals 15 miles a minuteor about oh…900 MPH…
July 17th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
“The killa cycle is below 7.85 sec in the 1/4 mile, not the 0.97 seconds as you posted that is the 1/4 mile in less than a second, that equals 15 miles a minuteor about oh…900 MPH…”
He said 0-60, not finishing the 1/4 mile.
July 17th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
#73 RB
I would agree with you on gov’t need for interstate transportation due to the huge cost of entry and monopoly power if a company were to do it. Not sure what you mean by gov’t involvement in computers. They were initially developed by the gov’t, but it wasn’t to subsidize it. It was cheaper to build a computer than employ 1000 people to break the code. It was cost effective. As for the Japanese, I’m no expert, but they make lots of good products. Motorcycles, engines, electronics. Did the gov’t subsidize all of them? So I wouldn’t say they’re success is because of subsidies. Airbus is an example of a subsidy success. Cost of entry into commercial airplanes was billions. If it weren’t for the subsidies, there would be no Airbus and McDonell Douglas would compete with Boeing.
The problem is today everyone wants a subsidy for everything. Usually they’re just political favors. There has to be a fundamental economic reason like cost of entry. And when it comes to the Volt and alternative energy, I don’t see it. There’s no big barrier to entry, more so than any other industry. 100’s of millions is not a barrier for businesses.
July 17th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
It is great that the candidates are visiting GM and learning about the Volt. But this mostly just helps with PR for the car. It will help build demand to huge levels. It could also create some serious optimism for the American auto industry… a real vote getter.
There is no human force on earth more powerful than the profit motive. To get anything accomplished, Government should set basic standards and get the hell out of the way.
Millions of people would love to have a car that only cost them 85 cents a day for their commute, but has a range of several hundred miles at 50+ MPG if needed.
The company that introduces that product reliably would become one of the most successful companies in history.
Now really, wouldn’t you rather have a Volt in your driveway than an IPhone in your pocket? The Volt could well create that same kind of excitement.
July 17th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Cool factor on the Volt is definitely huge for me (I’m an enginerd). But I like to buy for value too. Volt has the potential to be both, but the price has to come down more before the value is close, unless fuel prices keep rising.
In reality, I won’t buy it until GM packages it into a mini-van. How’s the for cool killer.
July 17th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Daveo, NOTE, when Obama says he want to INVEST 150 Billion dollars, he is misrepresenting himself… He wants to TAX YOU AND ME, take our tax dollars, and subsidize private and government projects with it. In other words, Obama wants to force all taxpayers to invest in programs of his choosing.
The 300 Million dollar prize offered by McCain is PURE CAPITALISM! “Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door” type of capitalism… I prefer to see market driven economics, and ONLY market driven economics will provide a sucessful path for vehicles like the Chevy Volt. Do I want one? Hell yeah! Would I prefer to get it at a lower price? Of course … do I want you and your family to subsidize my purchases? BY NO MEANS! Be careful what you wish for!
The Volt could prove to be revolutionary in the U.S. Auto Manufacturer’s market. Nothing else that I’ve seen comes close in either capabilities or potential other than the $100K Tesla Motors products.
Battery technology being the sticking point, offering a prize to the inventor/engineer/scientist or even whacky high school kid that can get us much higher charge density is a much more free market, entrepreneureal way to do things.
Just my opinion … I’d prefer to buy a Volt when I can afford it, without depending on Non-Volt-Buyers to subsidize my purchase in any area, whether it be during development, production, or at the time of the sale.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
#8 - I just about spit out my water when I read your post about raising the short term capital gains tax to 60%… Do you have any clue what that would do to investment in the stock market? Ill keep it simple, GM would be bankrupt quicker than it took you to write your post. And its not just day traders that move money short term from one investment to another, your mutual funds in your retirement account move a certain percentage of money on a daily basis.
Short term investments and overall speculation is not the problem here.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Making someone out to be the bad guys, whether its the oil companies or Wall Street, will not be effective in selling the car. That kind of talk is really just counter productive.
The car will sell on its own merits. If it does what it is supposed to do, it will it will dominate the auto market.
Remember, we will still need oil companies and Wall Street when the Volt is on American roads by the millions. We just won’t need as MUCH oil.
July 17th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
#79
TxRancher, kind of like how your former governor is doing with the Iraq War, right? Yes, I would wish for and prefer to be taxed for Obama’s energy plan over the current one.
And Mitch, we already covered my mistake. Let’s move on, k?
July 17th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
#82 Daveo
“TxRancher, kind of like how your former governor is doing with the Iraq War, right?”
What does the Iraq War have to do with the Federal Government subsidizing private industry … Also … I prefer our current Governor… he’s actually a fiscal conservative that has reduced taxation in Texas by enormous amounts, and has provided us with the lowest unemplyment rate in the country… Now, back to the Volt and it’s production & marketing.
My point is that Non-Volt buyers should not be subsidizing people who are buying the vehicle. My taxes should not be used for someone else’s vehicle purchase. A Tax Credit, based on a reduction in Fuel related Trade Deficit factored by annual miles driven would be an acceptable incentive… but the taxes I pay should be applied to things that are within the realm of the Federal Government, such as Defense, Justice, promoting free and unhindered trade both between the states and with other countries etc. In all actuality, that is about all the Federal Government is historically charted to do!
If GM were to begin getting all kinds of subsidies to produce and market the Volt, it will actually raise the production costs of the vehicle. (Huh?) Yeah, any time you make money cheaper, the actual “real cost”, whether it be manufacturing, shipping, etc… will rise. Look at College Tuition … the more money the federal government thorws at schools, the higher the tuition gets. Same thing in the auto industry, and similar to congress bailing out Wall Street, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac etc… (neither of which should even exist, but I digress).
They should not be interfering in capitalism, that is what got us into the mess we are in now. General Motors builds some of the most reliable vehicles on the planet. I have 225,000 miles on my 2001 Chevy truck, original everything except for the right front axle/hub (I do a lot of off-road driving). All GM has to do is get the vehicle out there, with good quality control, attractive marketing, and real world results to show the economic savings that consumers will experience, and the vehicle will eventually sell itself.
The federal government was partially the reason that the electric car saw an earlier demise. Government regulations demanded specific things to be produced in an over-regulated non-market driven environment. It mandated something that wasn’t quite ready for prime-time, and because it was a mandate, it was accomplished by GM merely to satisfy that mandate, without a long term look at the market, the sustainability in manufacturing, and the service and support cycle. For instance, there shouldn’t even be CAFE standards for fuel mileage … The Market will weed out the winners and losers, and those companies that produce what drivers want, and can bring it to market in a timely manner will succeed. The others will fail, as it should be!
If the market demands a product, and I believe the Volt and similar Fossil Fuel Charged Electric vehicles will be in very high demand, then the market itself will find a way to perpetuate the production of that item in a manner that allows for the seller to profit without the hindrance, regulation and interference of the government.
I WILL buy a Volt when it comes out, not because of being “green”, but because of “saving green”. It’s obvious that the Congress is not going to allow for the production of domestic crude unless they can credit it to themselves and a White House held by their party. That is the reason that they will not move on any real energy plan until after the election in November, if even then. Therefore, we are looking at $3.85 a gallon gasoline (your price may vary/not available in all states/past results are no indicator of future performance) for the foreseeable future, which means that my 150 miles per day commute gets expensive. At an average of 64 mpg, with the first 60 to 80 miles costing under a dollar (free in my case), it would save me approximately $600 a month in fuel costs alone. It will also alter my $850 a year tire replacement to about an average of around $300 a year, saving me another $25 a month.
What remains to be seen regarding the Volt, is battery lifetime. At 150 miles per weekday minimum, how well will the battery hold up? If the battery needs to be replaced too often, then how bad will that affect return on investment? If the PV roof panel is an actual option, that will further reduce monthly costs, but the option cost must be factored into the equation.
Asking me or anyone else to subsidize another person’s vehicle purchase is like asking one of us to pay for your health care or your grocery bill. It’s not part of the ideology that founded this country and is a socialist recipe for economic, industrial, and technological disaster… Of course, Karl Marx would have loved the idea. Then again, the Soviet Union never invented anything, they merely stole technology from the United States, Britain, and others nations that had free capitalistic, entrepreneueal societies.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
TX Rancher. Lithium Ion batteries lifetime is heavily controlled by their average temperature. See link below. So being in Texas, don’t park your car on asphalt during the day, park it on concrete.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
It’s good to know there are still fiscal conservatives out there who aren’t constantly pandering for crumbs from the Uncle Sam’s table.
And don’t hold your breath on the PV panels. There’s no way that’ll be cost effective. Their not even cost effective yet for fixed installations. On a vehicle just makes it worse.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Cautious Fan :
That would explain why leaving my pocket pc phone in the truck during the day is terrible on the battery … I figured that out after a recent 100 degree day, when I left it on the charger in my truck… came out to the equivalent of a 60% charge. Hasn’t been the same since. Also, Tesla motors is basically insulating their batteries with “Anti-Freeze/Coolant” … makes sense.
I wonder if driving long distances, relying in the ICE for charging will severely limit the battery life due to the heat created in charging it.
Thanks for the battery information, seems like a very good resource.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:23 am
……..and may I add that while this is important that we will be drilling off the coasts and in ANWR when this is all said and done. Conservation is good. It will make our air in the big cities better. It will help ship less dollars out of the country BUTT…….
……..the dollar will continue collapsing till you cry uncle and allow drilling. Of this I am certain.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:10 am
The only political ads I want to see on this website are those in which the candidate is actually endorsing the Volt and its approach as a part of the solution to our energy mess.
For both sides of the political spectrum… Please don’t come here to PANDER, come here to SUPPORT.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:22 am