Grab our RSS Feed

AND

GM May Consider Dropping Some Brands – NOT Chevrolet

July 7th, 2008 | Posted in: Brand, Financial

Its no secret that the U.S. auto market has become difficult for automakers in these days of $4 gasoline. GM is struggling with mounting losses and even the word bankruptcy has been mentioned by some analysts, although others call these concerns overblown. Nonetheless, besides bringing the Volt and more fuel- efficient cars to the market, and reducing production of SUVs and trucks, GM is apparently considering other cost-cutting ideas.

The Wall Street Journal reported today that the automaker is considering removing some of its brands. Those at most risk appear to be Saab and Saturn. Hummer as we have heard is already up for sale.

Removing brands is a difficult decision for GM as when Oldsmobile was let go, it was expensive and resulted in lost market share.

Another new cost cutting measure for GM could be the loss of 2000 white collar jobs.

While none of this is official, look for some news at GMs August shareholders meeting.

Of course the Chevy Volt will survive any such cuts, as the Chevrolet brand remains strong, and the Volt remains a linchpin of GMs future.

Source (Wall Street Journal )

Posted by: Lyle

75 Responses to “GM May Consider Dropping Some Brands – NOT Chevrolet”

Aspherical Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

Hummer and Saab seem to be the easy choices to let go. I don’t see how they will sell Saturn and keep Pontiac….

(Quote)
Vincent Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Opinions are free and easy based on only a graph.

We don’t know the read deal inside GM.
However from an outsiders view….

Saab seems like an easy target.
Hummers…real cool and can make it in a come back when Battery’s are ready for mass production.

Make an efficient electric anything that looks cool and it’s going to own the market if it’s affordable and priced properly for the target market.

Easy to see why the Volt technology is key to the future of GM.

….Or just buy the shale to oil technology and make the Middle East look like a Bar B Q propane tank in size by comparisons to the US reserves we have here.

(Quote)
Ash Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

For God sake, Get rid of HUMMER.

(Quote)
Sean Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

I can also see the release of Saab and Hummer. As for saturn I think it would make sense to just change Saturn to Opel since that is where all there cars are coming from. There would be no lose of dealers, no manufactors would be lost, and it could be GMs european brand for the US. Unfortunately all have ever owned were Pontiacs and GMCs and I would hate to see them go. I was really thinking about buying a G8 soon.

(Quote)
Jason M. Hendler Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

Saturn and SAAB should stay, but I see no need for Pontiac or GMC – as they are just reskinned Chevy’s. You only need Cadillac and Chevy, just as there is Lexus and Toyota.

(Quote)
VoltMe Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Getting rid of hummer is the ultimate no brainer. HOWEVER, good luck finding a buyer. What company in their right mind would touch that brand right now and into the foreseable future.

I believe GM has to hope that it can keep afloat until Volt hits production year two. The first year will be limiited and costly. Even in year two, the Volt will be priced considerably above competitive offerings from Toyota and Honda.

Perhaps GM needs to get into the Scooter business. I’m not kidding. Look at what BMW has done with motorcycles. If GM could buy up a Kymco or a Q-Link and start sending those to dealer showrooms it would at least give dealers something to sell until Volt is ready.

(Quote)
Tim Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Questions:
How many brands does GM have?
Why does GM have so many brands in the first place?
Aren’t models more important than brands?
Do they like being model redundant (GMC vs Chevy) with layer upon layer of expensive middle management waste?
Maybe they think that competing against yourself is a good thing?
Will consolidating models and selling them through the same showrooms lower costs and increase efficiency?
Their strongest competition is Toyota so how many “brands” does Toyota have with models that compete with each other?

(Quote)
brad Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

SAAB and Hummer will go. I don’t see them getting rid of saturn becasue that brand has quite a few hybrids and plans for a plug in and other technology. I would concider Chevy, Caddy, and Saturn Safe. The others are not safe. GMC and Pontiacs are Chevy models rebranded. Buick is iffy.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

I think GM should keep Chevrolet, Cadillac and Saturn. The other brands should be phased out over the next model year or so. By the end of production for the 2010 model year GM should be down to the three divisions where they should concentrate their attention and money.

(Quote)
keith twombley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

I don’t see a reason why the US automakers keep all the different brands around when most of the vehicles are just rebrands anyhow. It seems totally silly to me to have 3 different names for the same car or truck and all of the overhead of all those different brands. Not to mention keeping all those extra parts around.

My thought was to change the brands into the trim levels. So like take the Impala as an example. Instead of LS, LT, SS, you could do something like:
Impala Pontiac (base model)
Impala Buick (middle level)
Impala Cadillac (top trim level)
Impala SS (you gotta keep the SS)

So this way instead of having all those brands and all of the customization of each car, you’d have 1 brand (chevrolet), and then just a little badge for the trunk like they do now for the LT/LS, whatever.

There, everybody wins!

(Quote)
George Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

How about the unlisted ones.

From the GM site,

GM Auto Brands:

GM Daewoo
Holden
Opel
Vauxhall

I know the Saturn’s and Opel’s are pretty much the same at this point in time, but Saturn is a much better name. Just drop the Opel brand and release Saturns.

As for Saab, I think that they are integral in the EREV concept. Check out the news from 2006, before the Volt (I think):

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109700

(Quote)
Aspherical Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

#7 Tim

Excellent questions. I also believe GM has too many brands. The major problems are with the dealerships. How many dealerships do they have to pay to get rid of and how many dealerships do they have to re-brand? Now, lets assume that they consolidate to Chevrolet and Cadilliac. How will the inventory be distributed across the dealerships? Example: Since they have so many different models, can one Chevy dealership offer all possible models or will you have to go to a dealership across town to get the Chevy G6 because dealership B does not sell that model…

Not an easy transition…

(Quote)
frankyB Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

I agree with Brad #8, and as for Buick, some how they are shooting for the same market segment as Cadillac

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

#7 Tim

Toyota has two brands. Toyota and Lexus. They have many models within each brand. They do not compete with each other the same way GM’s brands compete with each other. The GM brands operate like separate companies and treat each other as though the other was the enemy. Buick likes to outsell Pontiac and etc.

Toyota does have the new brand they are pushing as an economical vehicle – the name escapes me at this moment.

(Quote)
Murray Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

I want a Volt. Do whatever you’ve got to do to get there GM….

I like the ‘turn Saturn into Opel’ idea as I think Saturn has the best ‘buying/owning experience’ of them all (intra-GM of course) and I only have that opinion via the wife’s Saturn Vue….I’m not now nor have I ever been a GM owner…. but I want a Volt.

I’ve recently had to ‘dip deeply’ into my Volt down payment which would hurt more if I didnt still have 2 probably 3 or more years to replenish it….actually it hurts on both sides….
I wish GM had focused more on this years ago AND I wish I had already given them my down payment.

(Quote)
Gary Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

It’s easy to say “get rid of X”, but the hard part will be dealing with the dealers. Some sell just Chevy, some sell Chevy-Cadillac, and there is one in my town that sells Chevy, Cadillac, Pontiac, Buick, and GMC. The shuffling of brands whose dealers overlap sales areas will be tricky to deal with, no matter which brand is dropped.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

#10 keith twombley

I don’t think your idea will fly. Just dump the other brands and keep Chevy, Cadillac and Saturn. Offer levels of luxury and options as now, but keep one very low priced economical model that people can buy that does not have all the frills. You’d be surprised how many people just want basic transportation. It is hard to find it at the dealerships after they load every thing down.

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Once upon a time, there were only 3 carmakers that mattered in the US: Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors. Sure, there were some foreign cars, and the occasional domestic upstart, but nothing that really mattered.

General Motors divisions were (mostly) their own brands until they consolidated. Then, to save costs, they started doing the “re-branded versions of the same basic cars” thing we’ve been familiar with throughout our lives. It had to make sense when there was just Ford and Lincoln, Chrysler and Dodge to have seven or eight other “choices” for the consumer.

Then there was Volkswagen. It was only a small car, so again, it didn’t matter. Americans didn’t buy small cars. Or did they?

The decades passed, and the oil shortage of the ’70s hit.

Now how many different auto manufacturers sell cars here, in appreciable numbers? 20? 30? I don’t even know. It clearly is useless duplication to have even five different flavors of the same cars, from the same overall manufacturer, each with separate dealerships; in today’s environment.

… but please keep Saturn!

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

I think that Tim puts it pretty well at #7. Do what you have to do to save the core business, and do it sooner, rather than later. There is very little “later” left, IMHO.

I can live with it.

I would not miss Saab for one second. Ditto Hummer and GMC.

#6 VoltMe:

As to giving the dealers something to sell in the meantime, I am agitating to tweak up the Aveo. Work on the weight, aero, engine management, transmission, et al, and make it a true Yaris fighter in terms of mileage. Give it the same treatment as the Cobalt xfe, only more so. If they can’t get better mileage than the rumored “40 mpg Cobalt” out of the smaller, lighter, Aveo, it will go the way of Hummer and Saab, I guess.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

#16 Gary

Dealing with dealerships is always tricky and will remain so. GM is going to have to bite the bullet and do what hurts for a change. Getting rid of brands that do not add to the GM corporation must be done. So, get started GM. Just go on and do it. Let’s get it over with and get on with getting the Volt out a year earlier than planned.

(Quote)
Estero Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Say goodbye to Hummer, GMC and Saab. Keep the Chevrolet and Cadillac. Merge the Pontiac, Buick and Saturn divisions into a single division to produce mid-range models under the Saturn name (i.e. Saturn Firebird, Saturn Enclave, etc.) with special emphasis on E-REV vehicles.

(Quote)
jeff Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

#14
Scion,is the other brand.

(Quote)
ksuhwail Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Problem is this….GM has done a piss-poor job of managing brand identity and has done a bad job with product placement for each brand.
For some reason GM thinks every brand needs to be Chevy and sell 4 million units a year! This is simply not the case. Each brand needs to find its own destiny. Some may be full service brands, other might be more niche but each brand should be able to stand strong financially.

Every brand GM currently has can flourish if properly guided.

Chevy: Peoples car…for the masses. Today’s line up is pretty good but just needs some updating and better organizaiton. Once the Malibu moves to Epsillon II they should make an extended wheel base version and develop a truly worthy Impalla. The Cobalt is also in desperate need to a revamp but that is obviously not far out.

Buick: Basically what Lexus has become but much more elegant.

Saturn: I love Saturn becoming Opel for the US. They are sexy European cars that give American byers something they can’t really get in that price point. Toyota is boring, Honda is ugly but Saturn…now thats sexy! The new SKY, VUE and ASTRA show this but they need that new Opel Insignia ASAP!

Pontiac:Pontiac needs to be a drivers car. It is basically BMW without the Bavarian accent. Not necessarily BIG V8 power but well tuned sporty vehicles that are FUN and won’t kill the budget! Preferably RWD but not a necessity as long as brand diluting vehicles like the G5 and G6 never have a Pontiac badge again.

Hummer: Hummer has tremendous amounts of respect in certain groups. Selling Hummer is just dumb. Is Hummer going to sell 300k units a year? NO! Can Hummer sell 100k units a year world wide and become the ultimate off road brand? YES! Hummer needs Diesel, 6-speed transmissions and a Wrangler fighter bad!

Saab: This is the saddest story in GM. Saab has such a strong heritage that GM is just letting die! Saab are small, eco-friendly, turbo engines placed in a fun to drive yet quirky Sweedish car. They are NOT a rebadged trailblazer! Never forget…BORN FROM JETS!

GMC: If any brand does make sense to cut it should be GMC. It is made entirely of rebadged Trucks/SUVs. While they are good looking vehicles I personally think GMC might live on better as a trim level within Chevy

Cadillac: Cadillac is slowly getting is grove back. The CTS is flat out awesome! What they need now is a 7-Series/S-class fighter and a alpha based 3 series fighter. Cadillac is supposed to be the standard of the world! They need to realize they are above Lexus (Buick Teritory) and reach beyond BMW and Mercedes. They have the ability but need to pull it together!

GM has so much history upon which to draw from. When they use that and dare to stand at the forefront of the industry they shine like gold!

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

#14 N Riley:

Scion. Toyota falling victim to “GMitis”, IMHO.

BTW, Saturn, Buick and/or Pontiac can go too as far as I am concerned. I’d as soon have an Opel or Vauxhall rebadged as a Chevy.

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

#14 N Riley says: “Toyota does have the new brand they are pushing as an economical vehicle – the name escapes me at this moment.”
————————————————————————————-
Toyota, Lexus, and Scion

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

#23 ksuhwail

Seems to be a well thought out plan. Maybe GM will read this and get some ideas. I don’t agree with all you said, but your ideas are thought provoking. I still say keep Chevrolet, Cadillac and Saturn. If there is a model in the other brands worth keeping, add it to one of the remaining three. GM needs to consolidate and get fit and trim to wage the kind of fight they will need in just a few years. The battle lines are being drawn as we speak and it will be a war to the end. Toyota sees its chance of knocking GM off the world leadership throne and possibly killing them at the same time. You better believe Toyota would jump at that chance. The chance is here and Toyota is gearing up for it. Is GM ready? I hope and pray they are.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Scion is the name that escaped me. Thanks to those whose memory did not fail them, also.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

BTW, I finished reading “Maximum Bob” over the weekend.

I’m not going to ruin it for you by giving away the plot, but I have to wonder if whoever hung the nickname on Mr. Lutz had ever read the book? If they had, I suspect that they were not great fans of his, LOL.

Does anyone recall if it was ever a film? I don’t, but it could have easily slipped by me. Maybe that would explain it. If it got famous through being a film, maybe somebody who never saw it just liked the name.

Anyway, it was fun. I personally can see some justice in the nickname, but not in a flattering way.

(Quote)
Vincent Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

#23 Well Said.
On the Hummer….Awesome, exciting designs.
if my Touarg V10 TDI can hit 28 MPG with ease so can a Hummer. where are the dam diesels. Also you get an easy 300K to 400K miles from a good diesel engine. At the end of the day it’s way cheaper than gas.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

#27 N Riley:

Once in a while it accidentally works! In a minute you’ll have to rescue me.

(Quote)
canehdian Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

I don’t know what this will accomplish, besides maybe the hummer and saab dealers closing.
Around here, all GM dealers are Chevy, pontiac, cadillac, GMC.
Hummer/saab I’ve never seen (wonder why? lol.)
But I would Imagine they are separate dealers.
Getting rid of hummer will not hurt anyone (They probably sell 1% of what they started out selling, if that)
Saab – honestly, I haven’t seen any saab advertisements or ANYTHING for years. Maybe they just aren’t in Canada?

Chevy, Pontiac, GMC are very popular (for those with a GM brand, of course).
Cadillac is like the beamer, if you ask how much, you can’t afford it, so they can’t kill that one, its got huge profits

Though I think GMC models could be phased out/changed to chevy, and it wouldn’t be a huge impact.
Pontiac, they need to keep, its their “sportier” line, yet still affordable (Solstice.. its up there, but still much more affordable than others )

Edit: I didn’t address Saturn.. That one’s a tough call. They are popular, but a separate dealer (at least around here). That means it costs more to maintain the brand, or at least to the consumer. They’re probably worth keeping, as long as their cars continue to sell.

(Quote)
David L G Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

It is the diversity of vehicles more than the diversity of names that cost GM money. Getting rid of GMC doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t cost them anything extra to engineer these vehicles, but they get more market share than they would if they only had the Chevy brand of trucks. Same thing with Opel/Saturn. These are just different marketing names for the same cars in different countries. Doesn’t save any money to merge them, just confuses everyone when they wonder why their Saturn dealership becomes an Opel dealership.

It is divisions like Saab and Hummer that really have their own unique vehicles that cause more overhead. Although from a standpoint of having more choices for consumers, losing those brands will mean fewer options for the buyer and perhaps less market share.

(Quote)
KentT Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

I like what one article said about GM’s brands:

Chevy vs. Toyota
Saturn vs. Nissan
Pontiac vs. BMW
Cadillac vs. Mercedes
Buick vs. Lexus
Saab vs. Volvo
Hummer vs. Jeep(?)
GMC vs. ?

I know some of those matchups don’t equate perfectly but it does give the divisions some guidance as to the overall makeup and direction they should follow. The problem with GM is the divisions tend to compete against each other rather than other automakers. If each division could realize a genuine identity rather than each model being just a rebadged chevy/buick/pontiac/cadillac then GM has a future. If not I think competition will eventually kill off GM as well as Ford and Chrysler.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

#32 David L G

It used to be the only reason someone would buy a GMC truck over a Chevrolet truck was because it was a little more upscale. That is no longer true. The only vehicle GMC offers that Chevrolet doesn’t is the Arcadia cross-over SUV. That will be answered this fall when the Chevrolet Traverse is released. Chevrolet matches GMC everywhere else. You don’t need two of the same. Pontiac and Buick are fine vehicles, but are not really any better than their Chevrolet or Cadillac cousins. Merge the good models where there is no matching Chevrolet or Cadillac and drop the rest. Get down to the three brands that will sell in the U.S. – Chevrolet, Saturn and Cadillac. Merge dealerships so that a customer could purchase any one of the three from one dealer. Saturn might survive by itself, I don’t know. Chevrolet and Cadillac make a perfect match for a single dealership. Always has.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

Why do my links always seem to turn into the next thread?

From the last thread:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080707/gm_jobs.html

It also mentions that Cadillac is not up for debate as well.

“The board may also hear management’s latest thoughts on whether GM should trim the number of brands it offers in the United States, the people told the paper.

All but the Cadillac and Chevrolet brands, which GM considers core to its business, are undergoing close scrutiny, some other people told the paper”

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

So in keeping with the trend, here is your next thread:

“GM readies Volt unveiling to shift focus from crisis”

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAN0741637620080707?rpc=44

“DETROIT (Reuters) – General Motors Corp is rushing to finish the production version of its Chevy Volt and plans to unveil a showroom-ready model of the heavily touted electric car in September, people familiar with the project say.”

“By unveiling the final version of the Volt at a centennial observation in September, GM will be looking to shift the focus for investors and consumers from its current sales slump toward the more fuel-efficient vehicles it has in development”

“In a further bid to create buzz, the Volt is one of several GM cars set to make an appearance in the action movie “Transformers 2,” scheduled for release next summer, a person familiar with the matter said.”

“GM showed off a concept version of the Volt in January 2007 but has retooled the look of the vehicle significantly since then, in part in order to improve its aerodynamics, representatives of the automaker have said.”

“GM has already shown a near-production version of the Volt to a Los Angeles-area focus group of consumers as it pushes toward production of the vehicle by late 2010 under a development plan the GM board approved in June.”

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Pontiac and Buick have excellent engineers and designers. Those people should add value to the Chevrolet, Cadillac and Saturn lines. Chevy could use some spicing up with some sportier Pontiac models. Cadillac could benefit from some of Buick’s models. All of Pontiac and Buick does not have to die, they would live on in re-vitalized Chevrolet and Cadillac models.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

#36 Statik

You are always up on top of things that is why your comments lead to other posts. Just admit it, Statik. Lyle is just taking his cues from your comments on these posts. Go Statik – Go Lyle – Go GM.

(Quote)
maharguitar Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

I’ve often wondered what I would do with all those brands if I were made king of GM. Some of the problems GM faces with eliminating brands are more than just the obvious dealership problems. One of them is brand loyalty. I grew up in the midwest and there were Ford families, Chevy families, Pontiac families, etc. They always bought what they always bought. When I go home and talk to people, I find that there is still a lot of this attitude.

Suppose GM decides to get rid of Buick. There are hundreds of thousands of people out there who only bought Buicks. If you take that away, they we take the opportunity to look at all their options and those may not be GM cars. Many people in my family work, or have worked, for the Big 3. They are convinced that if you get ride of Buick, you will lose half of your existing customers to the competition. Partly because they are mad at you for taking away their beloved Buicks.

Never the less. Here’s my re-org of GM.
Cadillac – Luxury and Luxury Performance. competition: Lincoln and Mercedes.
Buick – close. Offer a starter version of a Cadillac.
Pontiac. Offer performance cars. competition: BMW
Chevy. Affordable transportation. wide range of models. competition: Ford, Toyota, Nissan, etc.
GM. All trucks and SUVs. no long offered in Chevy line. I know pretty radical but definitely a brand differentiator.
Hummer. Does GM make the HumV for the Army too. They might need to keep the lines open for that it they do. But, don’t sell them to the public.
Saturn. Econo boxes. First “new” cars.
Saab. Sell it back to the Swedes.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

#38 N Riley

“#36 Statik, You are always up on top of things that is why your comments lead to other posts. Just admit it, Statik. Lyle is just taking his cues from your comments on these posts. Go Statik – Go Lyle – Go GM.”

I smell a bump to ‘moderator’ for me. Oh the sweet joy of it! You could be my viceroy Riley.

Of course, we would never get anymore direct quotes from GM…and probably alot of people would find their posts edited to agree with whatever I said. I’d rule with a iron fist!

There would be riots like in the 80s in Teineman Square! Anarchy would rule…of course in this fantasy land I’d have Terminators hunting down anyone who dared cross me.

(Quote)
canehdian Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

The volt will be featured in transformers as well?
Awesome exposure.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

#41 canehdian

“The volt will be featured in transformers as well? Awesome exposure.”

I hear it’s not going to show up until the very end.

(Quote)
Arch Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

I think many of you are taking this dropping of a name much to lightly.
There are plenty of people in this world who take the name very
seriously. When I bought my first minivan my brother and mother
thought I was crazy. I bought a Plymouth Voyager not the Dodge
Caravan. Why you ask? Because my wife did not like the name
Caravan—-made her think of some of our dusty travels overseas.

When my neighbor bought one and it was labeled Dodge on the
inside and Plymouth on the outside I took it over and showed them.
It made little difference to them. My brother liked mine so he went
and bought a Dodge said he would not be caught dead in a Plymouth.

Take Care
Arch

(Quote)
Jay Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

I hope that GM does not get rid of Pontiac. I love my Pontiac and the fact that it is a GM product. If GM sold off Pontiac I would be very sad and my have to stay with my Pontiacs as long as the quality was there. I just wish they would bring back a Firebird with the same technology that the Tesla uses.

(Quote)
tBay Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

General Motors was named General Motors because of its’ vast collection of different automobile marques. Trimming this collection down to 3 would would not only contradict the name, it would cut it’s marketshare significantly. I WHOLLY agree with #23 that every brand can flourish if guided properly. Yes there are many re badged/re engineered vehicles but that’s beside the point: A Cobalt buyer would not buy a G5. An Enclave buyer would not buy an Outlook. Every car has a different market they’re aiming for and GM needs to promote this more. They need to release new models and marketing strategies to further distinguish the brands.
With that being said, I won’t be sad to see Saab go. For some reason, I can’t see them flourishing no matter what GM does. It’s just a small brand with limited growing room IMHO.

(Quote)
Tim Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Hey, GM!

Like you, I thought it would be a good idea to compete with myself to see which arm is the strongest. So I got a piece of rope and put one end in each hand. You see, I believed that a good game of tug-of-war would help me determine which arm was stronger. I pulled and pulled until (after I was completely exhausted) I learned that my right arm was stronger than my left.

I was so tired after this struggle that I dropped the rope in exhaustion. At that point I was too weak and helpless to stop my neighbor’s little dog from simply walking up and stealing my rope.

If I had only used BOTH hands to compete against the dog, while we both had fun, I would have easily won and I would still have my rope to play with. Oh well, I guess I’ll have to find another game…

(too bad I’m so tired)

Don’t let Toyota steal YOUR rope!

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

To All,

That is what I meant when I said earlier that GM will have to make some decisions that will hurt to do so. Hard decisions will always hurt. Anyone who presently buys Pontiac or Buick and would not buy essentially the same model with the same trim and look because it had a Chevrolet or Cadillac badge needs to rethink things. I don’t have anything against Pontiac or Buick, they are great cars, but they could still be great badged as a Chevrolet or Cadillac. Not every model of Pontiac or Buick should be saved. Some should just fade away. This is serious business and we don’t need the different GM divisions to be fighting against each other. There hasn’t been hardly any significant differences between Chevrolet, Pontiac and Buick brands for a number of years. Sure some models within the brands stand out and these are the ones to keep as a Chevrolet or Cadillac model.

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

Thing of it this way, tBay (#45):

If being “trimmed down” to 3 marques” is contradictory to the name General motors, perhaps coming out with a line of electric-drive cars will make the name General Motors much more appropriate.

… “Motors,” not “Engines …

(Quote)
kent beuchert Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

As long as GM is captive to extortionary labor contracts, enforeced by the politicians who have been bought and paid for by the UAW, GM has no more chance than Chrysler or Ford to survice. The auto industry will follow the rubber industry, steel industry, etc. The only hope is for a foreign company to take over and refuse to honor UAW contracts and if workers try to unionize, threaten to move their jobs elsewhere, where people are actually willing to work for less than the $135 per hour that Chrysler’s workers reportedly earn in
total compensation. Even in good times, GM hasn’t had enough profits to redesign their cars half as frequently as the Japanese.
Why doesn’t “Don Knotts” Waggoner actually stand up for his company? He folded when the movie “Who Killed the Electric Car?” slandered his company upside down and sideways. He should be out there shouting about how GM is being raped by the UAW. I notice that these white collar workers aren’t being paid a hundred grand to resign like the useless UAW workers were, demanding anti-trust enforcement against price fixing and restraint of free trade and anti-consumer activities. GM lawyers must have the ability to argue an open and shut case.

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Think of it this way, tBay (#45):

If being “trimmed down to 3 marques” is contradictory to the name General Motors, perhaps coming out with a line of electric-drive cars will make the name General Motors much more appropriate.

… “Motors,” not “Engines” …

…since I can’t edit here…

(Quote)
StephanWolf Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Should Volt have been its own Brand?
If they could have sold the Volt Brand models directly to customers without going through dealerships, then I think it should have been its own brand. That way they could start a whole new car selling paradigm like they did with Saturn.

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

Let’s see them keep the Saturn paradigm before we talk about a new one.

…no haggling = no gouging…

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

With three divisions instead of the current line-up, maybe GM could adopt the Saturn “no haggling” price structure. Each brand (Chevrolet, Saturn and Cadillac) could offer vehicles that would entice customers based on price and features, not brand loyalty.

We all know GM has to do something. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years.

(Quote)
Bob Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

GM was assembled from other companies. Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Cadillac were originally distinct companies, not just brands, with distinct product lines and price ranges. The idea was that customers in each price range would move through the models as their family circumstances changed. Then GM ruined it all by consolidating design and production. They weren’t content with a common parts bin. They had to have platforms shared from Chevrolet to Cadillac. They did this back in the ’60s. It was irresistable. They saved *Billions*, when a billion dollars was real money.

Come to think of it, it’s still real money, except to Congress.

There was a lawsuit in the ’70s over the fact that a car from one division might have an engine made by another division, despite the fact this had been common knowlege for over a decade. That’s why you see and hear disclaimers about engines and drivetrains made by various divisions.

Toyota and Lexus seem to me to be going down the same road. Many Lexus models strongly resemble Toyotas to me. Honda and Accura have the same problem.

No wonder GM lost market share. They went from a giant company with a huge product line to a giant company with a small product line. The market in North America for a Chevy Caprice is only so big, even if you give it a different radiator grille and tail lights and call it a Cadillac.

Cadillac is starting to get distinctive products, again, but they’re dipping into the Corvette parts bin to do it.

(Quote)
TED in Fort Myers Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

Each brand that could be converted to electric could be kept and the others dropped. The ICE is on its way out and GM knows it. TED

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

From the chart in the graphic at the top, Buick has suffered by far the largest percentage drop, followed by Pontiac. I’ve never owned a Buick, but my brother-in-law won’t buy anything else ….he wants the luxury of a Caddy, but would never buy one because it’s too “ostentatious” to him. I wonder how many others feel the same?

GM recently consolidated all Pontiac, GMC & Buick dealerships under one dealership’s roof. It might make sense to simply add the interior silence (added sound deadening), as well as the “plushness” (upgraded interior quality) & soft ride (softer spring rates) associated with a Buick to existing Pontiac designs. Then minor external trim/skin changes should be sufficient to differentiate Pontiac & Buick*.

GMC gives these new Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealers a truck-oriented brand. GM’s challenge would be to differentiate GMC trucks from Chevy trucks. “We are professional” won’t cut it, so GMC may very well be one they kill off!

In any case, Saturn’s brand loyalty, its restored reputation for innovation (thanks to several hybrids & to Opel), and its superb buying experience should assure its survival.

*BTW, Tiger Woods needs the extra income from his Buick ads.

(Quote)
unhappyGMowner Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Is it a shock to anyone that GM is loosing market share? The cars they are producing right now look like something you would want to buy if you were in a coma! Sorry GM you made the decision to stop making cars that I want to buy, your market share reflects this decision.

(Quote)
Texas Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Dear GM, If you are unable to sell the Hummer brand please contact me. I will assume ownership. The first order of business would be to start development of a green product line. The first new product line would be a Jonathan Goodwin inspired biodiesel powered H3.

Since capital would be extremely tight in the beginning I would use existing platforms for the “transition”. Of course the current line would be available for sale for as long as it makes economic sense. That might not be for long. However, if the brand image of Hummer was transformed from one of massive indulgence to one of responsible utility I think the brand could be saved.

If things really go wrong with this oil crisis road maintenance will go way down and roads around the world will deteriorate. A 4WD vehicle capable of using the pothole filled roadways would be needed. Here’s a partial list of first projects:

1) Biodiesel version of H3 (tanks would be equipped with heaters and necessary parts to handle vegetable oil). That would allow the new vehicle to function on just about any oil from standard diesel to restaurant waste oil. Owners would no longer get nasty looks when they drove around. A H3 running on vegetable oil would produce less pollution than a Prius and it would sustainable and renewable.

2) Series hybrid (using a modified Volt powertrain) 4WD vehicle that has gasoline, diesel, LNG range extender options. Jonathan is also working with multiple fuel use systems. Perhaps a 2 or 3 fuel use Jonathan signature system option.

Hummer must either adapt to the new environment or become extinct. I happen to feel that there will be a great need for these types of vehicles. Hard and heavy work will become more common as oil fades, not less. This would be a worthy endeavor. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Texas

(Quote)
jazzdoc Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

GM has always had too many car MODELS across all of it brands for many of them to gain any traction. My first new car in the early 80s was a Chevy Citation…. anybody remember that car? I now drive a Buick Rendezvous,,,,which they have stopped making. They should keep a model but continue to enhance and improve. Look at how a Camry has changed, evolved and gotten bigger and moved up market,,, but it is still a Camry.

Reduce the number of models, cover all the major market segments, and continue to improve and innovate those core offering rather than chasing market whims. Folks love Suburbans because they have relied on them to be a predictable product for decades.

By the way, my wife’s car is a Camry Hybrid. On the interstate, with the cruise control, we get 40mpg at 65 mph.

(Quote)
250volts Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

Nasaman 56 –
Knew you were still around Yeah, Tiger surely needs the extra income from the Buick adds. Hey, maybe we should re-badge the Volt and get Tiger to promote it.
On second thought it might be easier to get Tiger to come over to Chevrolet:)

(Quote)
Grizzly Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

nasaman #56

“In any case, Saturn’s brand loyalty, its restored reputation for innovation (thanks to several hybrids & to Opel), and its superb buying experience should assure its survival.”

*** *** ***

Plus if they kill it, nasaman will never see what he really wants under the Christmas tree….a Vue with dual oil-cooled and 35mi AER.

(Quote)
Big SmileCry Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

It is clear that toyota is the no.1 brand by the American comsumers. First Toyota overall market share is about 16%, which included toyota, Lexus and Scion. Because Chevy has a much large percentage fleet sales while Toyota is small, this clearly means ONLY Toyota is the no.1 brand purchased by americans. If you have ever been to Bay area, 75% people buy Japanese vehicles, the remaining 25% goes to Detroit three, German and Koreans.
Let’s welcome Toyota to the no.1 elite position with our hearts and blessings. GM has itself and the overall (short-term) American business environment to blame.

(Quote)
Bryce Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

Can’t get rid of Chevy and Cadillac obviously

Probably not Saturn seeing as it has essentially become the North American arm of European Opel (Astra, Aura, Vue)

Can’t get rid of Buick cuz it’s sales are through the roof in China.
(best selling brand in that country)

Can’t get rid of Pontiac cuz it is be put forward as a performance brand to compete with BMW (hence the new G8)

That leaves Hummer, Saab, and GMC. Hummer’s sales have been tanking since their peak year, about 5 years ago, Saab has always been a joke. (When was the last time u saw a Saab on the road) GMC would also be easily replaced seeing as it is essentially just rebadged Chevys all the time.

(Quote)
BillR Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

It appears that GM is refuting this article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=apXN93naM2FY&refer=home

They indicate that Hummer is the only brand under review.

(Quote)
Grizzly Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

What makes most sense to me is selling both Saab and Hummer. Hummer for obvious reasons, and Saab because the volume is so low and as previously mentioned it’s just another re-badge. I’ve got to believe that Saab could be a nice buy for some European car co. like BMW or Volks. Not sure who would buy Hummer, but the sooner the better.

(Quote)
jabroni Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

This report should scare the crap out of all us Volt lovers. News like this could mean that funding for our Volt could get rescinded.

(Quote)
Jeff Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Hmmm…I did not notice anyone mention potential buyers. I assume that it would be another auto company with the ability to buy a brand. Which car companies have deep pockets at the moment?

(Quote)
Jeff M Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 1:06 am

Saab used to be a good brand when they were an independent auto maker. Almost bought a Saab, the 9-3, back at the end of ‘99, but ended up buying the Volvo instead. Hopefully GM will spin off Saab and Ford will spin off Volvo so they can both get back to making excellent cars w/out interference…

Case in point, Volvo was working on a plug-in hybrid when Ford bought them in 1999 and promtly canceled the project(s).

In fact, the following long quote comes from Sherry Boschert’s book “Plug-in Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America”, page 72 (2006 edition)…..

“Volvo was the 1st large car company (they are bigger in the rest of the world than in North America) to show a plug-in hybrid prototype, displaying the “Environmental Concept Car” (ECC) in 1992. Based on the Volvo 850*** chasis but built out of aluminum to get the lightest possible weight, the car ran on a series hybrid system (sound familier??) that could recharge its nickel-cadmium batteries (best available at the time) by plugging in or by the gasoline-turbine (also sound familer? GM later used a turbine in their prototype later that same decade) high-speed generator, which served as the auxiliary power unit. The ECC could go 53 miles on electricity alone in urban driving. In hybrid mode, it had a fuel efficiency of 39-45 miles per gallon for a total range of 273-315 miles.

The turbine could burn just about anything, giving the ECC flexibility in the fuel used as backup for electricity. The designers hoped that the ECC would be future-proof by accommodating a variety of fuels instead of just gasoline, says Ichiro Sugioka, science officier at the Volvo Monitoring and Concept Center, a think-tahnk near Santa Barbara, California.

Plans for plug-in hybrids evolved to the point that Volvo started producing one called the HEV98 that combined an electric drivetrain with a 3-cyclinder piston engine. Sugioka drove an HEV98 during secret testing in Southern California….

Volvo started making and testing a fleet of the cars in Sweden, where the company built all its vehicles, but hadn’t officially launched the produt when Ford Motor Company bought Volvo in 1999 and killed the plug-in hybrid programs. Ford wanted to maximize its profits and told designers to focus on the company’s core produts — SUVs. Engineers also had started designing plug-in versions of other Volvo vehicles under a seret program code-named Desiree. They took the parallel hybrid drivetrain developed in Desiree and applied it instead to Ford’s 1st hybrid SUV, the Escape hybrid….”

**** the 850 later was renamed the S70… this is not a tiny car… I believe it’s mid-size (at least my model year 2000 S70 is).

This should also point out that GM was *not* the only one who worked to kill their EV programs, all the auto makers did. I forget the public reason why Ford bought Volvo (was Volvo in financial trouble at the time?), but I can’t help but wonder if part of the reason from Ford’s point of view was to buy Volvo so they could kill the EV program.

Imagine what would have happened it Volvo had stayed independent… since North America is a small market for them, and Europe is much bigger, they probably would have had brought to market their plug-in hybrids where petro prices have always been an order of magnitude higher…..

(Quote)
Jeff M Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 1:17 am

And just googling for Volvo and “Environmental Concept Car” I found at least one interesting article on it published originally in Feb. 1993….

http://www.greencar.com/perspective/perspective-volvo-hybrid/

Interesting how much not only GM’s current Volt sounds so much like like this 1992 Volvo prototype, but GM’s own circa 1999 prototype series hybrid EV-1 did (which also had a turbine engine to power the generator).

(Quote)
brad Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 6:30 am

#49 I have to disagree with you. I beleive many companies use the unions as an excuse to why they can’t be profitable. They save many times on transportation costs vs going overseas and now in the coming climate on inflation costs. If the companies with Unions would stop blaming them and actually work towards profitability I believe they would get there. Look at UPS vs Fedex. UPS is still going strong and in many cases doing much better on service vs Fedex. The reason is management makes sure they get the performance out of the well paid employees.

Yes, unions can make it harder, there are pros and cons of everything. Unions have much less turnover but a lack of incentive to perform better. I’m not a union suporter but I’m sick of hearing companies blame their issues on them. Very little of their real issue is actually caused by unions.

(Quote)
MDDave Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 6:41 am

Most people seem to be picking brands to drop based on current market share (Saab), becaues they are a duplication of some other larger brand (GMC, Pontiac), or because they don’t like the brand for aesthetic and environmental reasons (Hummer). The brand’s prosepect for long term profitability is what you should be considering.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 10:24 am

#70 brad:

Amen. Well said.

(Quote)
Jason The Saj Says:
July 9th, 2008 at 11:31 am

What GM should do, or really should have done already!

Chevy = base model, general vehicles.

Buick = semi-luxury/business class vehicles

Pontiac & Cadillac become styling packages (which is really what they already are). In reality, that what’s these really are. Similar to Lexus and Acura for Toyota and Honda.

Chevy Pontiac will be a sporty vehicle, with sports options. A handful of models will only be available as Chevy Pontiac (ie: the Solstice).

Cadillac becomes a premium styling and packaging. Mostly applied to Buick models. But also a few Chevy models (ie: Tahoe). A few models might be available as Cadillac only.

All dealers to be GMC (General Motors). However, some to be “GMC Premium Dealers” which will offer Pontiac and Cadillac option lines.

The advantage would be a reduction in the brand management. And a consolidation of dealership types, but not necessarily dealerships.

***

I also think they should sell off Saab but retain Hummer. Yes, sounds crazy. But there is still a lot that can be done with Hummer. Hummer should be the off-road branch of GM. I think a “pick-up” truck might be a good line. It’d be nice to see the H3 line either dropped or made a hybrid similar to the Tahoe hybrid. In fact, it might be interesting to make ALL Hummers hybrid. They’re a premium line, if you’re going to buy a high end hummer, might as well drop $8,000 more to make it a hybrid.

I also think Hummer should make a variant similar to the mini-Cooper. Except off-road. Same styling, off road ruggedness, etc. But in a small compact three seater. (Two front, one middle-rear.)

***

Saturn is the tougher decision. Saturn was once a gem, what happened to it? Saturn got itself confused. Saturn should be the “College” line. Get rid of the Solstice, mini-vans, etc. Focues BACK onto the college market. Affordable, simple, smaller, etc.

————-

This leaves GMC with four distinct brands:

Chevy (General vehicles, Trucks, vans, mini-vans, sedans, SUVs, Pontiacs, etc)
Buick (Full size sedans, crossover SUVs, Cadillacs)
Saturn (Cobalt, Aveo, Korean sub-compacts, & minis)
Hummer

With Pontiac & Cadillac being styles or designs of Chevy & Buick that are either sporty or luxurious.

(Quote)
wlssurgery Says:
March 8th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

Thank you for your help!

(Quote)
Alex Says:
March 10th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

Oddly enough confirmed by the picture above, GM should be cutting brands. the first brands that should be completely shuttered and not sold are Hummer and SAAB, hopefully they are closed by 2011. Saturn then should follow in 2012 with a complete closure.

The reason why Buick-Pontiac-GMC should stay is because they act as one brand, under one dealership roof, with shared manufacturing and could actually be successful going forward. in the yr. 2000 each had substaintially higher market shares but have deviated from their core branding and message.

It will not cost GM a lot of money to close Hummer/SAAB/Saturn because their dealership footprint is extremely small. combined they have under 1,000 dealerships which minimizes lawsuits and allows dealers to be successfully bought out by the company. when Oldsmobile was shuttered in 2000 the brand has 2,800 dealers which made it significantly harder and more expensive to close.

Using that logic it should only cost GM $700 million dollars to completely unwind those three brands, which is a mire pittance when compared to the $ 30 billion dollar infusion it is about to recieve from the U.S. government to sustain their operations.

To sell Saab/Hummer/Saturn would be a big mistake, it would strengthen their competitors and not help to alleviate the over-branded U.S. market. competitiors will shift production and produce lower cost vehicles and use U.S. dealerships for their entry to the U.S market, this will overall be a major negative to GM in the long term.

It is costing GM more to keep those three brands than it would cost to buy out dealers and shutter those non-essential brands that combined only account for 1.8% of the U.S. market as of 2008, while the Nissan brand alone accounts for 6 times more market share, the writting seems to be on the wall for this one.

Buick right now seems in trouble, as well as pontiac but both brands can be saved by being relegated to importing successful international automobiles. Buick becomes an importer for some high end Opel cars to the U.S., while Pontiac could import most of the Holden Austrailia line under their Pontiac banner to the U.S. this would allow the entire Pontiac/Buick/GMC line to exist with little to no investment or upkeep from GM, which would allow GM to be able to focus on turning around/creating new products for both Cadillac and Chevrolet.

Internationall there are opportunities for consolidation as well. GM should absolutely retain Opel as they are integral to the company and will provide products and logistics for other divisions, my main recomendation would be to eliminate Vauxhall and rebrand it as opel, having that one brand for just Britain is a drain on the company and is an unneccesary cost that can be avoided. this will be a benefit to strengthen the Opel brand as well as cutting costs.

The same logic is used for allowing Holden Austrailia to take over the Daewoo division rebranding the entire division as Holden Worldwide, significantly slimming down their overlap and investment costs and capitalizing on the Holden name and logo.

these steps will get GM on the right track to completely reinvigorate their business and return to their core values while removing brands that severely drain cash from the company as well as massive overlap. by taking the above mentioned steps they will be better positioned to grow their market share in the U.S. and internationally and will be better able to understand and respond to market shifts and changes in consumer tastes. GOOD LUCK GM!!!

(Quote)

Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts

Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud? November 20, 2009
This is how open minded liberals operate. "And, perhaps most reprehensibly," Delingpole writes, "a long series of communications discussing how best... […]
BigCityCat
Is the Volt Engine Direct Injected? November 20, 2009
I recently read that the Cruze's engine will be DI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Cruze#Chevrolet_Cruze Obviously the Cruze's engine will... […]
omnimoeish
First Reports of the Chevy Volt's Charge-Sustaining (Generator) Mode Operation November 20, 2009
The first two journalists' reports of what it's like to drive the Chevy Volt while in generator mode operation have been published. 1) New York... […]
admin
Florida giving $5000 rebate to convert Prius to plug-in November 20, 2009
- Probably Hymotion - $10,400 standard price - $5000 state rebate - $1000 additional federal incentives - $4,400 final cost. Hurry because their... […]
Texas
New York Times CSM story November 20, 2009
Link to the New York Times story of November 19, 2009 about a test ride of the Volt in charge sustaining... […]
srschrier
New video: Volt drive in Detroit November 19, 2009
November 19, 2009 Detroit Free Press story with video featuring a Volt drive with Andrew Farah in... […]
srschrier
New Video: Volt Corrosion Testing November 18, 2009
From GM VoltAge, the Volt's corrosion... […]
srschrier

GM May Consider Dropping Some Brands – NOT Chevrolet

75 Responses to “GM May Consider Dropping Some Brands – NOT Chevrolet”

Leave a Reply

Recent Posts

Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts