GM is apparently moving a press from North Carolina to Pontiac, Michigan which will be needed to build the Chevy Volt.
The automaker has asked the Pontiac city council for a 100% tax break for 25 years on the new equipment.
The equipment will be used at the Pontiac Stamping Plant, but details at to exactly what role the machinery and that facility will play in the Volt’s production is unknown.
More details will emerge when GM presents their case and answers questions at a public hearing scheduled for Thursday.
This is the first news I am aware of of GM actually beginning to put Chevy Volt mass production machinery into place.
Source (The Oakland Press )
This entry was posted on Sunday, July 6th, 2008 at 7:03 am and is filed under Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:18 am)Nice a.m. update.
They are moving fast on the volt, which is good stuff. Its unfortunate they did not plan so well with the rest of their product line.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:21 am)Good morning, Lyle. Thanks for the early update.
—————————–
I had assumed that if GM is aiming for Nov. 2010, that would have to start setting up the plant very soon. This seems to be a good thing to that end.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:32 am)Gary
Nice a.m. update.
“They are moving fast on the volt, which is good stuff. Its unfortunate they did not plan so well with the rest of their product line.”"
*********************************************
How do you really know if they did not plan so well for the rest of their product line? Were you there? Did you say it because you don’t like GM? Get real!!!
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:58 am)This is a good request, as California just gave the same tax break to Tesla Motors to keep their factory in California. The more GM presses forward on the infrastructure needed to produce the Volt, then the more infrastructure is available to support the Volt’s development. This equipment could help GM build many, many prototypes to drive around.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:11 am)Why in the world is Pontiac taxing this equipment in the first place?
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:19 am)Not sure what exactly we will discuss in this thread.
You have a “source” that is a link to the picture, from the Beverly Manufacturing Company and not the Oakland Press.
I’m going to wager you wanted this link:
http://theoaklandpress.com/stories/070508/loc_20080705237.shtml
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:30 am)Statik, Let’s assume for a minute that there isn’t anything to discuss.
Do you think there will be a shortage of words here? I really doubt it.
Thanks for providing the link.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:42 am)#7 Rashiid
“Statik, Let’s assume for a minute that there isn’t anything to discuss.
Do you think there will be a shortage of words here? I really doubt it.”
“New Alternative-Fuel SUV Will Deplete World’s Hydrogen By 2070″ (TTAC-Onion)
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32869
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:48 am)Statik, #8. A hydrogen shortage. Too funny.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:50 am)More interesting is Mitsu’s new mini-site they just opened on the i-Miev:
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/special/ev/index.html
I didn’t realize it, but the first 16kWh pack gets 160 km (100miles), which is impressive. They did say there was newer efficiencies since they intially announced it…guess thats it.
I thought the ‘upgrade’ pack at 20kWh was the 100 mile range, I would assume you would be getting 130ish+ out of the 20? Dunno. Interesting read.
I wish the Volt was this far along.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:58 am)Wall Street Journal has a update to the new ‘BEAT’ coming to NA thread we had going.
This is how it starts, lol.
“GM said it is giving a higher priority to deciding whether it will bring the next-generation Chevrolet Beat mini car — a vehicle it sells overseas — to the U.S. market in the 2012 timeframe.”
“We always thought we’d do it at some point, but now it obviously enjoys a much higher priority,” GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz wrote in an email.”
So a “higher” priority to “DECIDING” to bring the car to market in 2012. Maybe 2012?!? Maybe 2012 is already like 3 years too far away.
/impersonates dinosaur
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121521795016429683.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Jul 6th, 2008 (9:01 am)A quiet news day
Summer Sunday lolls along
Dream electric sheep
Jul 6th, 2008 (9:12 am)GM had to start moving equipment and getting other equipment and plants ready by now to start producing test Volts in time for next summer’s release. GM had stated they would have several hundred Volt test cars on the roads next summer for testing. So they have to start doing things now to get that done.
Tax breaks are just a way of “signing” the deal when companies want to build or expand plants. All cities, counties, states and the federal government tax equipment and facilities. They would tax the paint on the walls every year if they could get away with it.
Jul 6th, 2008 (9:24 am)Here is the way to get the Volt out on time: set up a monetary bonus system to reward the Volt team members for every Volt shipped to dealers. The amount of the bonus goes down rapidly with time. For Volts shipped in 2009, you get a big bonus. For Volts shipped in 2010, a smaller bonus, and so on.
GM has a lot of institutional knowledge about electric vehicles, and, indeed, their fuel cell program is fundamentally an electric vehicle program. Thus, it seems like shipping small numbers of Volts to customers in 2009 should be the goal. The goal for 2010 should be high volume production of at least 25,000 vehicles.
Jul 6th, 2008 (9:39 am)Yay, a substantive and expensive step toward actually manufacturing the Volt! Three cheers!
Jul 6th, 2008 (10:23 am)Anybody know where in NC the equipment is coming from, and what the equipment was doing there before it was moved? We know what’s starting; what is stopping?
Jul 6th, 2008 (10:32 am)I’m assuming that GM is moving more than one press.
Jul 6th, 2008 (10:33 am)We talk about electric cars on this thread. I for one am glad to hear they are getting started. Can’t wait for my new electric VOLT. TED
Jul 6th, 2008 (10:38 am)Amazing how things work so quickly when $4 a gallon is the killer on sales. Bob in an interview some time back…said $6 a gallon would do it.”people will stop driving cars”… Surprise. $4 is the magic number and now we see GM moving. (Thank God) I know 99% of us here want them to succeed. They certainly have the talent.
Good to see it happening. Go Gm. Go. We all want an affordable Volt…and it’s exciting spin offs.
Please make sure that stamping machine is not creating Ugly Prius like panels.
Jul 6th, 2008 (10:56 am)Has anyone received their T-Shirt yet?
It’s taking a little while before I get mine; let me know.
Jul 6th, 2008 (10:58 am)O.Jeff #14 says, “Here is the way to get the Volt out on time: set up a monetary bonus system to reward the Volt team members for every Volt shipped to dealers. The amount of the bonus goes down rapidly with time. For Volts shipped in 2009, you get a big bonus. For Volts shipped in 2010, a smaller bonus, and so on.”
=================
Nope. I don’t think this would be a good idea, although I understand your reasoning. But it would be akin to giving police officers a 10 percent commission on every ticket they issue. Police officers would do nothing more than issue tickets in order to make more money. Same with the engineers. They would rush to get the Volt out whether or not it was ready. They would protect their revenue stream first and quality of the Volt second. Not to fault the engineers, I just think it is human nature.
The Volt must be “spot on” and quality needs to be number 1.
Jul 6th, 2008 (11:06 am)How are Americans going to ride in the Mitsu’s i-Miev? The Japanese guy could not even fit well. That is a super small car; I might as well just ride my Harley and enjoy the ride. Does it come with a can opener?
Jul 6th, 2008 (11:17 am)Mark H. #22 I sat in one at VoltNation. It is surprisingly roomy, but I am only 5′ 8″. However, I don’t think it would be bad for a big person.
Jul 6th, 2008 (11:17 am)RE #20
Got my T-shirt a while back. Remember, GM-Volt.com is not a full time job for Lyle.
Jul 6th, 2008 (11:36 am)I don’t think this volt will be in the show room in 2011, it will be there in 2010… The volt is clearly not just another car, or even another ‘innovative car.’ Its a revolution. Some one at GM (Lutz?) read C.K Prahalad’s “The New Age of Innovation.” The Volt is also an experiment in how to design, build and sell a car along the lines of ‘co-creation.’ That’s why they are reaching out to us for so much input in how to develop this version of the E-flex platform.
GM’s onto something big here. And if they pull it out there will be books written about this. I don’t want to see ‘The Death of Detroit” to be the last saga written about US auto history.
–
DA
Jul 6th, 2008 (12:24 pm)Statik@#10
“I didn’t realize it, but the first 16kWh pack gets 160 km (100miles), which is impressive. They did say there was newer efficiencies since they intially announced it…guess thats it.”
Perhaps they were just using different standards when giving the range. The site is using the Japanese driving standards which are different than the US EPA standards. For example, the Prius gets 99 mpg under the Japanese standards but more like 46 mpg under the EPA standards. It’s hard to compare them directly. Perhaps the other figure was said in a US interview with reference to a different standard?
FWIW I’m thinking Aptera says its BEV will get 125 miles from a 10kWh pack.
Jul 6th, 2008 (12:31 pm)#26 DonC
It’s not a MPG measurement at all. They take it out…it goes 160km/100 miles, it stops. Real world…fleet tested…right now…fact.
There is no MPG for a all EV. Comparison to the Volt on a ‘range only’ basis 16kWh pack is easy. 100 miles — 40 miles. There is no Japanese/US difference in how we measure distance.
Jul 6th, 2008 (12:45 pm)The iMIEV as described on Statik’s #10 web link is very impressive.
Jul 6th, 2008 (12:47 pm)GM is going to stamp out the VOLTS, that should speed up delivery.
Jul 6th, 2008 (1:08 pm)#20 Patrick
I received my t-shirt a week or so ago – ordered it on day one. It came in a hand-addressed envelope. I’m sure Lyle has his hands full with the orders & you’ll have yours soon.
Jul 6th, 2008 (1:39 pm)I hope GM is moving on things to bring the Volt out ahead of schedule. Fall 2009 would give them a big boost and beat the other players to market. Still want to see a volt truck in the future.
Jul 6th, 2008 (1:40 pm)#20 RB
“The iMIEV as described on Statik’s #10 web link is very impressive”
They are going to produce 2,000 in 2009 (a year ahead of schedule). And ironically, 10,000+ in 2010. With massive numbers in 2011. Last year the Volt and the i-Miev had identical rollout schedules. And there was no such thing as a plug-in Prius.
Look at where the Volt is now compared to the i-Miev…GM is maybe moving some random press a few hundred miles, looking for tax breaks and making clay models.
…and people wonder why I am so negative. Honesty, would it be possible for GM to have done less this past year? I doubt it.
Mitsu has clearly obliterated GM. This is what REAL committment to a project looks like. They can get out a 100 mile range, 16kWh car for $24K in less than a year from now.
How does GM justify the extra 20K? $20,000 ICE? $20,000 leather seats and rims? Mitsu has already announced the 20kWh pack will be available shortly after rollout, and gets 131 miles (just found the specs).
By the time GM is rolling out some quantity in 2011 (maybe), what will Mitsu be offering? 40kWh packs for 30K, getting 275 miles?
Most importantly, the i-Miev makes sense. Killer sense! Joe customer plunks down a affordable $24,000 and never goes back to a pump. Spends 80 cents to go 100 miles. Say he drives 1,000 a month…cost? EIGHT DOLLARS!
Just for laughs, he can go 2,500,000 miles on the $20,000 he saved over a Volt…if you only factor electricity (and don’t allow for all the extra taxes and what not).
I’ve said this before, the Volt has to be marketed as a luxury car, with all kinds of bells and whistles.
The I-Miev is the innovator, it is the car going into the history books. It is the innovator, the ‘moon-shot.” It is the answer to the gas situation. It frees ‘Joe Public’ from gas AND goes even furtherer…it puts even more money in his pocket than when gas was at $1.00 gallon. It drastically REDUCES the cost of ownership of a automobile.
Jul 6th, 2008 (1:51 pm)Patrick@20,
I checked with Lyle a couple of weeks ago and he said that they sold out quickly and are back-ordered. Should arrive in a couple of weeks.
I ordered two, so I can wear one and have one in the wash.
Be well,
Tag
Jul 6th, 2008 (1:54 pm)RB (#28) “The iMIEV as described on Statik’s #10 web link is very impressive.”
Yea, the “statistics” are impressive but it looks like an egg or something that came out of the south end of a northbound dog.
Does the “egg” look symbolize “nature” or “rebirth” or is it simply a symbol saying “hey look, I’m a gay nerd driving an electric turd.” Why be ambiguous when you could just order a brown one?
Good luck if you’re a guy trying to get a date with a girl while driving THAT car…
I’ll just wait for the Volt or or then again anything electric that is NOT shaped like the iMIEV. The tech. may be good, but the design… it STINKS!
Jul 6th, 2008 (1:55 pm)27 – Statik
Its true, there are no MPG for the electric.
But the reference was into the testing standard – in Japan they may drive at 70km/h and get X for range.
In the states they may drive 110km/h (~70mph) and get Y for range.
Just like MPG varies with driving habits, so would effective range per charge.
P.S. Just make the volt under the Pontiac brand.. I’m sure the city would cave to tax breaks then
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:22 pm)#34 TIm
Exactly my point Tim. The Volt only makes sense in the luxury niche market.
95% of the people in America, would rather pay a quarter to go 300 miles than look fly. Of the other 5 percent ‘looking for dates’ or attention, only a small fraction of them are looking to the Volt to ‘hook them up.’ A BMW Z4, Porsche Boxster or Chevy Corvette will still do that job alot better.
In summary, make the Volt gorgeous…or don’t make it at all.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:35 pm)#35 canehdian
“Statik, Its true, there are no MPG for the electric. But the reference was into the testing standard – in Japan they may drive at 70km/h and get X for range.In the states they may drive 110km/h (~70mph) and get Y for range. ”
I hear what you are saying. The driving patterns of a Japanese person maybe different from that of a American. But as to ‘the standards’… there is no standard EV mileage test at all in the US or Japan.
Right you can go out and get 100 miles if you drive like a regular Japanese person that works for a electric company, lol (60 mile/hr speed limit). I assume if you are concerned about mileage or range you can achieve the same 100 miles here in North America if you choose to.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:36 pm)#32, #36 Statik — I’d really like for GM and the Volt to be ahead, but unfortunately your comments ring true. I’ve owned a Mitsu before, and while somewhat plain it was a durable and fun-to-drive car, so I wonder if the new one will be the same way. If so, tough competition.
From more of a nuts and bolts viewpoint, the iMitsu web site made it sound like the battery supplier for the iMIEV is all lined up. Perhaps the supplier is another branch of Mitsubishi. I wih there was equal clarity now for the Volt. For GM, it looks as if there was a great advance in vision but relatively slow progress in execution.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:37 pm)10 Statik:
From your link:
“GS Yuasa is currently the only mass producer of large lithium-ion batteries in Japan. The new company will produce batteries with substantially improved performance and higher capacities suitable for EVs.
Mass production lines capable of manufacturing 200,000 cells per year will be installed within GS Yuasa’s Kyoto head office plant. Operations are slated to commence by 2009.”
If this is true I am not certain why you are so excited….their manufacturing facilities for Li Ion production are essentially at a much lower planned level than GM’s suppliers and they are at exactly the same level of production GM is in: no battery no car. That doesn’t even touch on the looks and functionality, it is a Li Ion battery powered enclosed golf cart and unless there is massive battery power scaling this is all this car will ever be.
It is the EV1 formula: wind tunnel, cut weight, and you increase range.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:39 pm)If GM needs 3 years to “bring” the Beat to US market, then how do they even think they complete the Volt, from the ground up in a short time?
The Beat exists today. It will need to Americanized, meaning, larger motor, different emissions requirements, and oh yeah, we might as well make it bigger for our US market….So by the time we get it (2012), it will get about 37 mpg, and will be just another car on the lot.
iMiEV is looking good. I did look into the rating for 100 mile range on 16KW batteries, but looks like this is ideal range. The test drive showed they got 60 miles before needing to re-charge, with the heater blasting. But hopefully with a little more engineering optimization and battery tech. upgrades, they can reach the 100 mile range.
Anyway, I hope GM can really make the Volt, but I would not be putting my money on it in Vegas.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:40 pm)#39 Morgan — Mitsu does have a specific battery supplier who apparently has made specific production committments, while GM as yet does not. And, if made in Japan itself, the batteries will be high qualtiy work.
Please do not misunderstand me. I’d much rather GM “win” this competition. One has to realistically assess where we are now, nowever.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:41 pm)39 Morgan
I think if you research the iMiEV you will find it is a fully functional car. They have test cars running in the real world, and they are using Li-ion batteries now.
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:45 pm)RB 41
“And, if made in Japan itself, the batteries will be high qualtiy work.”
What are you saying? Why would the battery be higher quality if built in Japan.
I think a quality battery can be built by many companies/countries. Actually if you looking for quality, the US may be the superior choice (you did not mention price..)
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:52 pm)Statik@#35
canehdian is making the point I was, only perhaps more artfully. There are a lot of variables which determine the distance you can go. It’s not really as cut and dried as you are suggesting. In particular, you seem to be overlooking the fact that mpg can easily be equated with distance. It is after all the numerator for mpg, and, since, a gallon of gas contains an equivalent to kWh, using the relative effeciencies of motors versus ICEs allows for the conversion of mpg to distance.
The factors that affect mpg will therefore also affect distance in the same direction. For example, on a flat you will go a lot further per kWh than if you go uphill and downhill. Equally importantly, the faster you go the more drag becomes an issue, and the more kWh you will need.
I’m thinking, as you suggest, that the Japanese standard is a flat at a farily low mph whereas the US standard is more up and down with top speeds of 65+ mph. Otherwise how to account for a Prius getting 99 mpg in Japan but only 46 mpg here?
Jul 6th, 2008 (2:54 pm)#43 JEC — I have visited factories in several countries, including Japan, the US, and elsewhere. In my opinion, there is a notable quality obsession at the assembly line level in Japan that extends upward into management. One also can find this outlook in the best US factories, but not all of them. Both Japan and the US have higher labor costs than some other places. In the other places, things are more uneven, and sometimes the goal of lowest possible cost outweighs the goal of quality.
I am not putting down anybody — as you noted, high quality work can be found in places around the world. Individual workers everywhere have to conform to the expectations of their managements.
Jul 6th, 2008 (3:08 pm)The iMiEV seems to have a quick-charge connector as well as the standard ones. Maybe the Volt can have that too.
Jul 6th, 2008 (3:15 pm)45 RB
Thanks for your clarification. I understand how many people jump to the conclusion that the Japanese build great quality products. Just look at the leaders in the automotive business and then look at the disparity between both the size and populations of the countries. Japan has had a great track record.
But, (there’s always a but) I have worked with engineers from several countries (US, Singapore, Korea, China, Japan, others..). I work in a manufacturing environment where quality is always pushed. From my experience (+20 years), the quality of products is driven hard in all countries. With the globalization of markets, the difference in cost and quality is becoming very gray (or grey). I would not be able to say any one country can show that they are more capable, quality-wise, than any other country. There are always companies in every country that both excel in cost & quality, and also those that will perform poorly. I have witnessed issues in almost every country, related to quality problems, even Japan. No one is immune to poor quality.
And as you said, high quality can be found in many places. I just think that Japan is no longer a leader in quality, but more a maintainer.
Jul 6th, 2008 (3:46 pm)Statik@35 Self@44
In thinking about this, I realized that since the conversion from mpg to miles per kWh is linear, the differences in the ranges under different conditions should likewise be linear.
Given that the ratio of the Prius mpg under Japanese and US driving conditions is 46/99, the 100 mile range for the iMIEV under Japanese conditions equates to 46 miles under US conditions.
The 46 mile range is not all that different from the what GM is suggesting for the Volt, the difference of course being that the Volt has a fallback ICE system.
Jul 6th, 2008 (3:50 pm)There is absolutely NO reason why Mitsubishi, GM (or anyone else) couldn’t produce a reasonably priced 100 mile range, full function electric car that’s also stylish.
It’s almost like Mitsubishi is intentionally trying to kill the electric car all over again for anyone who does NOT wear a hip hugging miniskirt with a g-string up to their waste.
They may as well paint all the iMIEVs pink and blue and sell them with matching neon plastic backpacks with “hello kitty” imprinted all over them. I’m sure that there are some “guys” in California and obviously Japan who would LOVE the idea. It kind of reminds me of an episode of the Power Rangers, but iMIEV’s shape is really detrimental to the whole electric car movement. Too bad the competition is so overpriced.
Money is NOT the root of all evil. The LOVE of money above all else (greed) is the root of all evil and FEAR of losing control is the soil in which that root to flourishes! GM is just now figuring that one out. I hope it’s not too late…
Then again, GM’s answer is the Chevy Beat…
PUUUUKE!
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:05 pm)#48 DonC
“Given that the ratio of the Prius mpg under Japanese and US driving conditions is 46/99, the 100 mile range for the iMIEV under Japanese conditions equates to 46 miles under US conditions.
The 46 mile range is not all that different from the what GM is suggesting for the Volt, the difference of course being that the Volt has a fallback ICE system.”
It could very well be a little bit off 100 mile range…but in no way does this translate to a comparable range to the Volt.
The Volt is a different animal all together. I don’t expect the Volt to be able to equal the i-Miev in this area at all, my point was in the fact that it has the same pack size NOW…and that Mitsu can put it into a whole car, charge $24,000 and make money.
The i-Miev is optimized for range, evident by it’s size and weight in relation to the Volt.
The i-Miev, is ON THE ROAD, fleet tested and is getting 100 mile ranges. Japanese drivers aren’t pushing the car to the top of a high and coasting around town or finding wide-open stretches of highway to set these numbers. These are regular people, hundreds of them, driving around…not Mitsu suits on a test track.
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:15 pm)#3 Joe: Regarding your comment as to not liking GM, I currently own three chevys, a 92 z34, a 94 caprice B4U and a 96 SS. As for GM’s planning, anyone but a blind fanboy can clearly read the kind of position General Motors is in right now, due to lack of planning and foresight. (try google news, it can be your friend too)
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:16 pm)#49 Tim
I prefer a stylish look, but not at the expense of efficiency and range. That’s what this is all about…getting a vehicle that can severe the oil umbilical. It’s not about looking good.
Unfortunately the style of IMiEV is driven by aerodynamics. The laws of physics did not put in a clause for style.
If it’s butt ugly, but runs pure electric and gets 100+ miles then so be it. Take the money you saved, and go get some cosmetic surgery or a hair cut.
If you care more about style, and not about price/performance, then go buy a Tesla or some stylish gas guzzler. The new age of cars is not about style, it is 100% about getting off oil and onto something more sustainable. Thats it. PERIOD….
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:25 pm)#39 Morgan
If this is true I am not certain why you are so excited….their manufacturing facilities for Li Ion production are essentially at a much lower planned level than GM’s suppliers and they are at exactly the same level of production GM is in: no battery no car”
Much like GM, there is a phased increase in plant production, you are quoting the official statement from May 2007. It also notes this important part, “During the first stage of development, 3 billion yen will be invested to install automated mass production lines within GS Yuasa’s Kyoto head office plant, capable of manufacturing 200,000 cells per year. Operations are slated to commence by 2009″
http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/corporate/detail1626.html
The only plan on build a handful of batteries in 2010 for the Volt, and 10,000 for 2011. Mitsu has a similar ramp up plan..only their production is starting today.
Plant capacity is the issue with all electric cars, everywhere. The fact Mitsu has a plant that can produce even 2,000 and get them into cars in 2009 is more than impressive.
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:30 pm)Statik@50
Your points about where the companies are good ones. But I’m not sold on the “little off the 100 mile range.” I’m thinking it’s a lot off, since they do say the distance is achieved using the standard class for Japanese driving. Half or less is likely what we have.
But I agree the Volt shouldn’t be compared to the iMIEV. The Volt is more car and has the added complexity of the serial hybrid system. Because of the extended range, I can see some people having just the Volt as their only car but I think the iMIEV would be more of a second “local” car, much like the EV-1 was. In the end most people will want something like this, even if they don’t really need it.
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:31 pm)GM is tooling up for the Volt, while Toyota eliminates shifts in new American truck plants and reduced output from Japanese plants that make vehicles for the American market.
Oh, but they are rushing to build a Li Ion plant, so that is something.
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:38 pm)Patrick
“Has anyone received their T-Shirt yet?
It’s taking a little while before I get mine; let me know.”
******************************************************
As for me I have not. I just recently disputed the amount on my charge card. If others have the same problem, they should do the same.
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:40 pm)55 Hendler
Yes Toyota is eliminating shifts in truck plants. So is EVERYONE in the auto industry. No news. We all know the truck market is falling.
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:44 pm)56 Joe.
Do you really care about a T-shirt?
Now if you were awaiting the arrival of a new electric car in the mail, that might be news worthy.
Lets keep on course…”steady as she goes Scotty”…”Aye capn’”
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:47 pm)Other news:
NBC Universal to buy The Weather Channel for $3.5B. Apparently, the Weather Channel is apparently worth 60% of what GM is, hehe.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080706/nbc_weather_channel.html
Jul 6th, 2008 (4:59 pm)Side note on the apparent “T-Shirt issue”
I am in the clothing business. I make clothes, uniforms, etc. I also do some in house silk screen and embroidery. There is no reason to not be able to stock and ship 1 color prints on a white t-shirt (there are literally hundreds of suppliers).
One of the following is occuring Lyle: (if you need a hand, I would certainly be able to assist you)
A) incompetance — you need a new supplier
B) too small a supplier — you need a new supplier
C) too big a supplier, they don’t care about you — you need a new supplier
D) you are doing them yourself and your cheap — you need a supplier
E) you have a inefficient system to fill orders (maybe you do it yourself) and you got a whole whack of T-Shirts laying around waiting for someone to fill out delievery slips — you need a supplier who ships direct…or hire a kid to work 2 days a week for 3 hours.
Side, side note: If you have GM’s blessing to make Volt products, (and I assume you do, because you practically have every last one of them on speed dial somehow, you should have a whole Volt lineup of products)
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:18 pm)#
July 6th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Gary
#3 Joe: “Regarding your comment as to not liking GM, I currently own three chevys, a 92 z34, a 94 caprice B4U and a 96 SS. As for GM’s planning, anyone but a blind fanboy can clearly read the kind of position General Motors is in right now, due to lack of planning and foresight. (try google news, it can be your friend too)”
Just because one press gets ship to a plant does not mean, it is or isn’t, good planning. I know what good planning is, because I’ve done it all my life working for GM. GM is not doing well in the US because of perception, not because of bad quality or lousy engineering. Today’s GM products are as good and better than the competitors. I do admit GM had been sleeping for decades but today, if they can survive for two more years, they will be hard to reckon with. Toyota knows that and would love to have GM fall under. Many are writing stories that GM will file bankruptcy, but I find that hard to believe when GM holds over 500 billion dollars of assets.
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:20 pm)I am so enthused by the Volt, I can hardly wait. Statik wants T-shirts and I want a car. heh heh
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:25 pm)#61 Joe
“Many are writing stories that GM will file bankruptcy, but I find that hard to believe when GM holds over 500 billion dollars of assets”
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=GM&annual
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:32 pm)RB #16
“Anybody know where in NC the equipment is coming from, and what the equipment was doing there before it was moved? We know what’s starting; what is stopping?”
*** *** ***
That’s a very good question because to the best of my knowledge GM doesn’t have a plant in NC. I’m wondering if they bought that equipment off one of the transplants or if it was just stored there.
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:33 pm)63 Static
Holy Cow!
Where did all GM’s assets go? $476 Billion to $148 Billion in 2 years?
At that rate they will be bankrupt soon…
I am not a financial person, but if someone came to me looking for a load, and I saw that kind of trend, I would walk them out the door (or shove if necessary)
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:36 pm)Statik #63
Is that rapid decline in assets tied in with last years 37+B right-off??
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:37 pm)64 Grizzly
The article says “..Moving NEW equipment..”
This indicates this is actually built new, not used. Anyone know who builds these monsters? Hopefully built in the USA, but would not be surprised if it was shipped in from overseas.
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:58 pm)Mitsu iMiEV … L=133 “, H= 57.9″ , W=62.8″, Weight = 2380 lbs
Mini Coooper L= 146.2 “, H= 55.4″, W=66.4″ Weight = 2701 lbs
VW Beetle L= 161.1″ , H= 59.1 W=67.0 Weight = 3480lbs
Civic Coupe L=174.8″ H= 53.0 W= 69.0 Weight = 2586 lbs
1957 VW Bug Weight 1500lbs !!!
Jul 6th, 2008 (5:59 pm)63 Static
Holy Cow!
Where did all GM’s assets go? $476 Billion to $148 Billion in 2 years?
At that rate they will be bankrupt soon…
I am not a financial person, but if someone came to me looking for a load, and I saw that kind of trend, I would walk them out the door (or shove if necessary)
************************************************
GM’s shares are worth 10 times of the current market share price. GM’s shares are way undervalued. Many financial experts will tell you GM’s share are worth about 10 time more than the current price.
Jul 6th, 2008 (6:02 pm)69 Joe
I assume then you are buying all the GM stock you can get your hands on?
Jul 6th, 2008 (6:14 pm)JEC #67
Could be “new” to GM but not necessarily new. As for the company that makes it:
http://www.minster.com/
Jul 6th, 2008 (6:45 pm)#65 JEC
“63 Static..Holy Cow! Where did all GM’s assets go? $476 Billion to $148 Billion in 2 years? At that rate they will be bankrupt soon…I am not a financial person, but if someone came to me looking for a load, and I saw that kind of trend, I would walk them out the door (or shove if necessary)”
It was a necessary evil to offload them (the assets), if you check the liabilities section of the balance sheet, you will notice a similar reduction. They sold/spun off what they could to raise cash…the bulk being GMAC. Which basically took a huge “checks and balance” off their books and transferred it to the new company.
GM was hemmoraging money incredibly fast (and still is) and they need cash to stay solvent. Unfortunately, GMAC was what they could/had to sell, (even though at the time it was GM’s primary driver of profitable returns).
Without this driver of profitable returns, the shareholder equity has fallen into a death spiral, from 14 billion in 05, to -5 billion in 06 to -37 billion in 07.
Jul 6th, 2008 (6:48 pm)#69 Joe
“GM’s shares are worth 10 times of the current market share price. GM’s shares are way undervalued. Many financial experts will tell you GM’s share are worth about 10 time more than the current price.”
I’m not sure if your just posting to be humoUrous or not.
I don’t think anyone could be this uninformed claiming this, or that GM has 500 billion in assets, as well as claiming to work for GM…so I’m going with you are just ‘funning’ with the board.
Jul 6th, 2008 (6:52 pm)Link to GMAC sell-off:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-04-03-gm-deal_x.htm
This part of the article is very poignant considering it was written in April of 2006,
“The GMAC sale “is a tremendous drain on GM’s earnings power. Over the last three years, GMAC’s contribution to GM’s net income has averaged $2.8 billion while its auto ops have averaged a loss of $1.8 billion,” Merrill Lynch auto industry analyst John Murphy said in a note to clients Monday, shortly after GM, GMAC and Cerberus briefed Wall Street. The deal “puts even more pressure on management to execute a turnaround in the core automotive business.”
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:05 pm)RB @ 16 and Grizzly @ 64
“Anybody know where in NC the equipment is coming from, and what the equipment was doing there before it was moved? We know what’s starting; what is stopping?”
According to GM’s Web site, the only plant they have in NC is the Charlotte SPO (Service and Parts Operations). I don’t know exactly what they do at an SPO, but it sounds like a storage and distribution center for parts and not so much a place that would have a press… I could be wrong, though.
It is possible that this press is being manufactured in NC and isn’t something that GM already owns — it is, after all, referred to as “new” equipment in Lyle’s entry.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:10 pm)Nice used Minster press & coil feed in picture, must be just for show or smaller parts. Not near the bed size or tonnage to stamp body panels. Toyota has 72 Komatsu presses at their Georgetown KY plant.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:18 pm)MD Dave #75
Minster has production facilities in OH and SC. It’s possible it came from SC and was delivered to the SPO in Charlotte for logistical purposes where a truck or rail, or both will take it to MI.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:34 pm)Grizzly @ 77,
Yeah, that occurred to me too after I posted. If an SPO is, in fact, a storage and distribution center, it makes sense that it could be used to store, process and distribute parts and equipment for GM’s manufacturing plants as well as for vehicle service centers.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:39 pm)#77 Grizzly and others — I think your right. Most likely it was manufactured in SC and somehow designated as coming from NC. That could be due to a NC transit point, or it could be a simple mix up in the description. The latter happens all the time.
Jul 6th, 2008 (7:47 pm)The Minster web site identifies the facility as in Beaufort, SC, which is near the ocean south of the NC border. There also is a Beaufort, NC, not too far north. A heavy item could have been shipped from Beaufort SC up the waterway in a barge to, say, Wilmington NC for rail connection, or we may simply have a little confusion between two towns with the same name. Whatever the details, that’s most likely the explanation.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:00 pm)SC is an interesting state. Stayed overnight there on my way to FL. Heading south It’s actually the first place along I-95 that you start to see palm trees. IIRC there were also quite a few textile mills there until the 70′s or 80′s. Minster must be taking advantage of low labor costs in a right to work state. What about GM?? ???
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:21 pm)Two things-
I had to backorder some shirts- your patience is appreciated they are all on their way. Thanks for the advice Statik- just trying to spread the word- I’m not much of a clothing retailer.
The picture above the post is just a random picture of a press and it and the brand “Minster” has nothing to do with GMs equipment that I am aware of.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:32 pm)#13 Riley
“Tax breaks are just a way of “signing” the deal when companies want to build or expand plants. All cities, counties, states and the federal government tax equipment and facilities. They would tax the paint on the walls every year if they could get away with it.”
How about, why are the citizens of Pontiac Michigan allowing the government at any level to “get away with it”? If we would stop allowing the government to suck productivity out of the market in the form of taxes, GM might have the funds to get the Volt going much quicker.
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:35 pm)Nothing to say, just a slow news day. Wake me up when the Volt’s ready, wouldya?
Jul 6th, 2008 (8:41 pm)Why does tis site allow the ridiculous add “Double Your MPG” “Any Car” “The secrets they don’t want you to know”
Wouldn’t these people have an invite to the white house and be sitting with Bush and Opec if it were real. Why is this even allowed here. Some one please explain…..
Jul 6th, 2008 (9:09 pm)A quick note to all. I am enjoying reading this blog, and I am enjoying reading the comment sections too. I don’t have much to say about a press being moved to Pontiac Michigan from North Carolina, but biodeiseljeep’s haiku’s here and in other comment threads are very amusing to me, and I quite enjoy them.
I am learning a lot about the topics talked about here, and appreciate all the info and ideas contributed here. I will stay tuned, and I guess we will see if the Volt turns out to be all it’s cracked up to be. One thing that might interest you all on a slow news day is the link I was recently sent from a freind about a car developed in India with 120 mile range that runs on on compressed air. ( Although I am sure those of you who are steeped in this subject are probably already familiar with it ).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7243247.stm
Apparently it could never be sold here in the US because it would never meet safety standards ( I guess it’s made of carbon fiber and glue). That really, really irritates me. How is it any less safe than a motorcycle which is completely legal for some reason? It seems like this country is it’s own worst enemy. We can’t drill for oil or build nuclear power plants even though we have the ability to do so, and we cant bring new ideas and innovations to market because we have created so many beaurocratic roadblocks to protect us from ourselves that nothing can get through to challenge the status quo.
A politician recently described our nation’s energy policy as “starving to death while sitting on a ham sandwhich.” I wish I could come up with a similiarly witty analogy to describe our transortation policy, but it appears to be a similiar situation in that our limitations are largely self-imposed.
Jul 7th, 2008 (3:25 am)#34 Tim
“Gay nerd driving a turd”
????
Have you EVER heard the term FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION? (Frank Lloyd Wright, an American)
As a further verification of this form, notice that the Th!nk Ox looks very similar to the i-MiEV.
You should check out the performance of the i-MiEV, then wonder why the GM-Volt isn’t at the same stage or better:
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.tv/english/index.html?mv=5tateyama#
(movie in Japanese only, but self-explanatory)
Jul 7th, 2008 (6:49 am)We should have compared the Mitsu iMiEV with the Yaris and Fit.
Mitsu iMiEV … L=133 “, H= 57.9″ , W=62.8″, Weight = 2380 lbs
Honda Fit L=157.4″ H= 60″ W = 66.2″ Weight = 2432 lbs
Toyota Yaris L= 150.6 H= 60″ W= 66.7″ Weight = 2295 lbs
Jul 7th, 2008 (8:08 am)There is a lot of talk about the 100 mile range of the MiEV. My money is on the impartial test drive taken by Edmunds earlier this year. Bottom line? 60 mile range on full battery charge. And this in an admitted “mini” car that falls far short of the size requirements of most Americans. In summary, the MiEV doesn’t seem so revolutionary. They just get more range because their car (2,400 lbs) is lighter than the Volt (3100 lbs).
Also, their standard battery charger requirs a whopping 14 hrs from 100V outlet for a full charge. I am not even HOME for 14 hrs before I have to go back to work on some days. Yes, you can buy an option fast charger, but it looks to me like that “optional” fast charger needs to be a basic feature for those of us who work more than “bankers’ hours”.
(http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=124867).
Jul 7th, 2008 (10:43 am)Can they sell the I-Miev in USA?
They sold the VW bug in the 1950s when it was an inexpensive car for young folk and it got 30mpg. It was really ugly.
Would an ugly EV car sell today at $24k? Like hotcakes baby.
It will moderate the Volt price. It validates the Volt concept. People will want the range extender. Maybe as an add-on.
Jul 7th, 2008 (11:19 am)#11 Statik:
Beat in 2012? Dinosaur for sure. I have vowed to try to stay as positive as possible here, but it’s tough some days. Note my comment on the Beat thread below about tweaking up the Aveo, a la the Cobalt xfe, only more so. At least it’s a live (OK don’t say it) car and it’s here now.
#52 JEC & #87 RyanP:
AMEN to both of you. I think that I must have commented “Form follows function” about 50 times here over the months. I personally think that the MiEV is a very good looking car. I would buy one in an instant if it was a Chevy instead of a Mitsu.
#68 & #88 Rockyroad:
Yup! Amen to you too. I don’t care what anybody says, WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY! Just offhand, do you have the weight of the Aveo 5 door handy? I thought that it was about the same as, or slightly less than, the Yaris, but 2295# is pretty impressive in this day and age.
Jul 7th, 2008 (1:02 pm)This MiEV reminds me of the second World War. The Japanese had the Zero and it was great for a short time and then the good old US of A built aircraft that ran circles around the Zero and cleared the sky of that aircraft. We’ll do it again and all of you that are so down on the U.S just step back and see what happens. We are a proud country, GO VOLT .
God Bless America.
Tom
Jul 7th, 2008 (2:05 pm)When the MiEV becomes available, it will sell good. There will be a lot of pent up demand for a good, affordable commuter car. At $24,000 they will be snapped up as fast as they can be made.
Jul 7th, 2008 (2:06 pm)It is just too bad GM doesn’t have a fully electric Volt to put into production next year as a commuter car. GM could be making that money instead.
GO GM and Go, Go, Go Volt.
Jul 7th, 2008 (3:15 pm)Will the body panels be metal, plastic, or carbon fiber?
Jul 8th, 2008 (10:38 pm)#95
“Will the body panels be metal, plastic, or carbon fiber?”
*** *** ***
Most likely metal like the rest of “Delta” platform. Future versions, ….who knows?