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GM on June Sales: Asia Doesn’t Have a Monopoly on Fuel-Efficient Vehicles

July 1st, 2008 | Posted in: Financial

On July 1st, GM released its June 08 sales figures. Due to a tightening economy, consumer credit squeeze, sky-high oil prices, and plummeting truck demand it was widely expected that GM would experience a greater than 20% drop in June sales compared to the year prior.

It turns out, all the automakers but Honda and Hyundai did, with Ford dropping 28%, Chrysler dropping 38%, and Toyota dropping 21%. But to analysts’ surprise, GM’s sales did not drop as much as expected, down 18.5% for the month. Overall it was the worst June for US auto sales in 17 years.

GM highlighted it’s building green car momentum.

Mark LaNeve GM VP of North America said "hybrid demand and availability continues to build, and we’re seeing really positive momentum with the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon 2-mode hybrids." He also said:

"Make no mistake about this … Asian automakers do not have a monopoly on fuel efficient vehicles. We have a full lineup of vehicles — including five hybrid models — that provide industry-leading value, great fuel economy and the best warranty coverage of any full-line automaker," LaNeve added. "Every month, more and more customers are choosing our brands when shopping for a high value, fuel efficient vehicle."

If you drill into the numbers a little, it turns out that hybridization appear to be underway, albeit slowly. From GM’s press release:

GM hybrid vehicles continue to gain in popularity in the marketplace with 547 hybrid Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon 2-mode SUVs delivered. There were 295 Chevrolet Malibu, 30 Saturn Aura and 277 Vue hybrids sold in June. For the month, a total of 1,149 hybrid vehicles were delivered, with 4,376 hybrids sold so far this year.

Cobalt, Malibu, G6, Vibe, and Aura all actually had increased sales from 07 to 08 as did Suburban and Equinox.

Source (GM )

Posted by: Lyle

86 Responses to “GM on June Sales: Asia Doesn’t Have a Monopoly on Fuel-Efficient Vehicles”

Sean Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm

I guess GM still has some fight left in them.

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Red HHR Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

GM makes some good cars, I get well over 30mpg with the HHR!

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cyclop Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:22 pm

“GM hybrid vehicles continue to gain in popularity in the marketplace with 547 hybrid Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon 2-mode SUVs delivered. There were 295 Chevrolet Malibu, 30 Saturn Aura and 277 Vue hybrids sold in June. For the month, a total of 1,149 hybrid vehicles were delivered, with 4,376 hybrids sold so far this year.”

I’m sure the press people mean well, but the last half of this paragraph is so much in contrast to the first sentence that it is hard to read the whole thing without laughing out loud. At least GM is trying.

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Grizzly Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:24 pm

Plenty of fight. The GM Mgmt of the 80’s 90’s could never have pulled this off. I’ve said it many times, a little patience and the right business model can pay off. This is only a glimmer of what’s to come, it just won’t be overnight! Hang in there!

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Sean Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm

It seems that once the two-mode hybrid get worked out for the FWD platforms you are going to start seeing Two-mode hybrids for the malibu, Aura, Enclave/Acadia/Outlook, and the equinox. Just my opinion.

Later

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Sean Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:29 pm

#4

Grizzly I completely agree with you on this. I think that GM already knew that they would be realistically struggling for the next few years. They seem to have set themselves up for the future and once the new labor contracts go into full effect I believe that GM will really start making larger strides forward.

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Arch Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm

GM may be a little slow but in the end they seem to get it right.

Take Care
Arch

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Firefly Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 8:57 pm

Great news! GM may have previously been down, but far from out.

My advice? 2 mode everything possible. The Vue, Aura and Malibu proved it for FWD and (much to my amazement) Tahoe and Yukon (soon Silverado, Escalade and Avalanche) hybrids, they’ve shown what is possible with a little effort. Now if they can hybridize one example of their fleet…if they share engines, they can share trannies. Win-Win for GM and us, and confirmation that now more than ever the Volt is a step in the proper direction.

Congradulations, GM. Don’t stop the momentum.

(I hope I spelled congra… right)

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Jeff J Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:00 pm

#4 Grizzly , I agree !! I fill GM stock will keep falling for the next two qt. and possible 1 year , could GM hit $6 very possible , I do see a hugh up side when GM launches the E-fex drive system, With the VOLT hitting show rooms first , Saturn Vue , Cadillac , OPEL plus chevy. cobalt & malibu following in very short order SELLING LIKE HOT CAKES . I just hope bond holders don’t pull the plug before the e-fex system makes it to the show room.

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Dave B Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:01 pm

GM Stock: 11.75.
52 Wk High (10/12/07)$43.20
52 Wk Low (6/26/08)$10.57

One thing is for certain: those are some unhappy shareholders.

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Eric E Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:15 pm

My 2000 Suburban is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned.

It has 149,000 miles on it and everything, I mean EVERYTHING, stills works and works well.
I don’t want to sell it.
I keep waiting for something to break…and I don’t baby it, I live and work in the Rocky Mountains on unpaved roads.

I love that truck!

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Puntbamapunt Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm

@ Dave B

what really worries me is GM’s market cap around 6-7 billion, with Toyota market cap around 147 billion, they might be susceptible for take over or worse Chapter ***.

I just hope they weather the storm and the volt and plug in Vue becomes their savior.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:33 pm

Put the Volt out and sales figures will go up quick. I’m holding off from a new car purchase because I know plug-ins, E-REVs and BEVs are just a few years away.

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Grizzly Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:35 pm

In this economy things could change on a dime! GM had a bad month when everyone else including Toyota had a TERRIBLE month when no one expected it.

E-flex is the future, but E-85 capability should be the target for the majority of GM vehicles. As I understand it GM’s economies of scale have this down to a minuscule $112 per vehicle. The marketing and consumer emotional payoff could be much greater. Transition isn’t easy, but history has proven that those who master it will rule!

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john1701a Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:38 pm

>> My advice? 2 mode everything possible. The Vue, Aura and Malibu proved it for FWD and
>> (much to my amazement) Tahoe and Yukon (soon Silverado, Escalade and Avalanche)
>> hybrids…

Confused, eh?

Vue, Aura, and Malibu are BAS hybrids, a mild assist design that provides only a modest efficiency improvement and no reduction of smog-related emissions.

Two-Mode has been deemed a technology intended for large vehicles only. And based on my research, it doesn’t appear that scaling down to just a 4-cylinder engine provides as much of a benefit. Hopefully, someone will chime in with details…

Whatever the case, neither Aura (30) nor Malibu (295) hybrid monthly sales came even remotely close to the Camry hybrid: 3,054

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Sean Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:39 pm

#12

I agree that right now Toyota has the market cap but you have to remember that Toyota has not had the cost over the years that GM has had to incur like retiree pensions and healthcare which is costlier and better then the crappy health insurance that I have now.

I believe that the upper level people at GM have planned for 2010 and beyond. That is when the new labor contracts come in to play.

Also, now that there will be a FWD version of the Two-mode tranny in the Vue, then I truely believe that the rest of the goods are right around the corner.

Come on GM!! Finish this out, were rooting for you!!

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GXT Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:43 pm

Yeah… 10,000 volts/12 months = ~800 cars per month. That works out to an increase in monthly sales for GM of less than half of 1%. Total profit <=$0. That should really turn things around

I knew GM was pretty much non-existent in hybrids, but I didn’t quite realize how non-existent. 30 hybrid Auras??? No wonder they are PRing the Volt so much.

I’m looking forward to the fleet numbers in the quarterly report. I’m guessing we will see quite the backslide.

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MDDave Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:48 pm

Wow… The sales figures for GM’s hybrids are a lot lower than I would have expected, especially considering how expensive gas is now. If they can’t sell more than 1,149 vehicles across all of their hybrid models in a month with the conditions that exist right now, what’s the point in selling them at all? By the time they catch on — if they catch on, GM is going to be into E-REV vehicles and the current hybrids will probably be on their way out. I wonder how many Priuses were sold last month?

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Grizzly Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:58 pm

john1701a #15

Right now Toyota, Honda look good. Problem is that this is not a forgiving industry and the future is everything. GM has the goods, the only question is liquidity over the next few years. They’ve surprised everyone this month including myself, and every month like this is bad news for the competition.

There is something to be said for digging in with a superior business model. I just bought some GM stock, and I assure you even for the modest cost I don’t expect to lose!

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dagwood55 Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 10:14 pm

GM previously announced that the Lambdas (Enclave, Outlook Acadia, Traverse) would not get a two-mode system, as there is insufficient room for it in the chassis. Considering how new the vehicles are, that’s most unfortunate.

If I recall correctly, 1,149 hybrids is actually DOWN from last month. Considering GM likes to think of itself as the largest automaker in the world and hybrids have been a fact of life since 1997 (Japan) or 1999 (US), this is really a pretty poor showing.

And it’s why I think the Volt will ultimately be a disaster.

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Statik Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 10:17 pm

The caveat is that GM sold nearly a third of the month’s sales in the last 4 days, GM was clipping to be down 40% after week 3.

The four days they did the recover in, came about because of ‘the big price slash’ and gave out 72 months at 0%. Truck sales only off 6% percent because of it. They sold almost every unit at a loss to just to recover on the numbers and get some much needed cashflow.

I’m not saying it’s bad, they needed to get those trucks off the lots, get the cash and cut their losses…but the numbers are very deceiving.

If we are talking hybrids, while GM did sell some hybrids, Toyota sold every last one they could manufacture.

“Sales of Toyota’s Prius, the top-selling hybrid in the U.S. market, fell 26 percent as dealers ran short of inventory and customers faced a six-month waiting list. Toyota said it would only partly be able to satisfy the backlog of demand from its dedicated Prius factory in Japan this year.”

“It is very doubtful that there is going to be a lot of recovery this year to be able to satisfy consumer demand and that is very unfortunate,” said Jim Lentz, Toyota’s head of North American sales, referring to the Prius. Toyota had a one-day supply of the Prius hybrid and a 2-1/2 day supply of its hybrid Camry sedan at the end of June

GM has sold less than 5K for the whole year, on all their hybrids combined. I would say that ‘Asia’ has a monopoly on fuel efficient vehicles if your definition of that class is hybrids. Current backorder stands at just over 60,000 on the Prius, and WEEKLY demand is currently at around 6,000 (they can only make 3,000 tops)…and that is with a model refresh coming (and a all new next year).

http://www.smartmoney.com/breaking-news/on/index.cfm?story=ON-20080701-000609-1558&afl=yahoo

Where Toyota is really hurting is the Lexus brand, off 29.8%, there is no hiding that…I don’t really know how they are going to fix that until the Prius’ hybrid cousin joins the lineup in 2010.

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Statik Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 10:24 pm

#19 Grizzly

I bid you good luck. Right or wrong, it is never a good idea to invest in a stock that you care about. It’s a big market out there, lots of good and bad companies. It’s hard to make level headed decisions about a company you are so closely involved with. (No slight at all intended here to you man…just be careful, it’s ugly out there).

Quote: “They’ve surprised everyone this month including myself, and every month like this is bad news for the competition. ”

You really should have dug into the ‘why’ they surprised before you bought today, if you did. GM can’t continue to give $8,000 off a new truck and finance it at 0% to boost sales…it just can’t

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Sean Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 10:55 pm

#22 Statik

“GM can’t continue to give $8,000 off a new truck and finance it at 0% to boost sales…it just can’t”

I understand what you are saying here but cash back and 0% just does not happen with GM vehicles. If it does the cash back is usually something alot smaller and the 0% is for a 3 to 4 year term which most people will not be able to qualify for. You get one or the other. And remember Toyota has been offering about $6000 off of for there truck and SUVs as well and they have been doing it alot longer since the introduction of the new Tundra to get people in the door to buy them.

The higher cash back tells me that the mark up on these vehicles is high enough where they can sell them at the lower cost and either break even or loss very little.

Also the main reason why they did this was to get rid of truck and SUV inventory that they are significantly cutting production on anyways.

Finally i hate to sound like a broken record but i believe that the upper level people were looking to 2010 and beyond when these new labor contracts come into play which will be a huge cost savings for them. Also nobody expected gas at $4 a gallon this fast which has thrown everyone into a head spin.

later

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Grizzly Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Statik #22

You too should be sure before you post. That is making sure that I’m not just as full of the same hot air that proliferates itself on this site… I think you know what I mean! That said I’m a step ahead of you, as always! I DO appreciate your concern but I must say that for the LT GM AT IT’S CURRENT price isn’t a bad gamble. Especially when you understand the business model.

If they continue to shed SUVs at their current rate, and can sustain liquidity and add E-85 capability to the lineup, I see a lining in the clouds.

Just remember Statik that the only difference between Americans and Canadians is the size of squirrels in the back yard! Our’s are brown and weigh about 1/2 pound and have bushy tails, yours are white and weigh about 1000 pounds and could knock a Lion out cold with a single blow!

Take care.

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Sean Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm

# 24 Grizzly

“Just remember Statik that the only difference between Americans and Canadians is the size of squirrels in the back yard! Our’s are brown and weigh about 1/2 pound and have bushy tails, yours are white and weigh about 1000 pounds and could knock a Lion out cold with a single blow! ”

That was Awesome

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Paul-R Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 11:17 pm

I wonder if GM’s puny hybrid sales numbers are because they couldn’t make more, or because they couldn’t sell more.

If the former, I wonder what the bottle-neck is.

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drivin98 Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 11:29 pm

This is certainly putting a brave face on a disastrous month.

In contrast to GM’s continuing slide, Kia was up around 21%.

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DonC Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 11:40 pm

#26 Paul-R

I think it’s a combination of the hybrids being pricey and not offering substantially better mpg. The big SUV hybrids offer much better mileage but they’re very large, very expensive, and the mpg is still not very good. The smaller hybrids don’t offer much better mpg than the gas vehicles. From Hybrid Cars:

“Even if GM were to increase production and distribution of its hybrids, it’s unclear if the company has a winning formula for its hybrids. The Tahoe and Yukon, while offering impressive mileage for a full-size SUV, are priced above $50,000. The other GM hybrids are more moderately priced, but use a mild form of hybrid technology that produces only modest gains in fuel economy. For example, the Chevy Malibu Hybrid, which gives 24 in the city and 32 on the highway as compared to the gas version’s 22 city/30 highway. ”

In comparison the VOLT is a game changer.

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law Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 11:44 pm

All I can say is how stupid can you be, all the companies seem to have been caught with their pants down. They should have known to switch over from trucks to cars long before this year.

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jehrler Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 11:51 pm

Having always been a contrarian investor (thank you Apple at $15!) I have been taking a look at GM.

I *love* to invest when the psychology is against a company but they have a story. And, with the Volt and their world wide operations, GM really does have a story and the know-how.

It is not just Asia, look at Europe. Between Opel and Saab (yes Saab – our 1999 9-5 Wagon has 276,000 miles and gets 30.5 miles to the gallon on the highway) GM has been competing in markets with $4+ gas for years.

The problem is truly North America…they got fat and lazy on high margin SUVs and, based on what I see, they have had the crap scared out of them.

Nothing like adversity to get the juices flowing, just ask Apple.

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ghost Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 am

No one wants current GM hybrids because they are a flippin’ joke.
The MPG savings are downright laughable – except on the tahoe.

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57silver Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:29 am

#28 DonC addressed part of the the problem with GM hybrid auto sales. Their current hybrids only get slightly better milage than the straight ICE versions of the vehicles. The ‘rest of the story’ is economics. The base price of a 2008 Malibu LS, with automatic, power and air, is $19,645. The base price of a Malibu Hybrid, with the same equipment, is $23,640. The customer has to pay $4,000 extra for a 2 mpg increase in gas milage. The economics are not in favor of GM hybrids.

The same problem will hamper the first versions of the VOLT if current estimates of retail price are even close to being accurate. The early VOLTs will sell to those that are fed up with being dependent upon the imported middle-eastern oil and can afford to support their convictions. It will sell to those that are concerned with climate change and can afford to support their convictions. It will not sell to those that cannot afford to buy gas at current prices because they have little to no extra income. The Volt will fall into the same market segment as the Malibu as far as size and convience is concerned. The Malibu sells for $20,000 less. Even with a $5,000 government credit, the 40-mile AER Volt will be $15,000 more expensive than the Malibu. Can those strapped for cash afford to make a monthly car payment for the Volt that is nearly $300 higher than the payment for the Malibu?

That large, 400 pound battery pack for the Volt holds less than the energy equilavent of ONE GALLON of gasoline. One gallon of gasoline will take the Volt an estimated 50 miles. A full charge of the battery pack will take the Volt 40 miles. It will take 6 1/2 hours to “refill” that gallon of gas equivalent in the battery pack. Those that drive 40 miles per day, every day, will save the costs of 30 gallons of gas per month, less the recharging costs of the battery pack. Assuming gas gets to near $5 per gallon, they could save about $120 per month on gas costs (say $4.85 minus $.85 recharging costs) per month. But the same consumer would be paying near $300 per month more for the Volt than the Malibu. Those that drive longer distances every day can also take advantage of the Volt’s increase in milage when using the ICE. In another three years, the Malibu will likely have a more efficient ICE, maybe a forced induction, direct rail injection engine that can get 40 mpg, narrowing that gap.

For the lower middle-income consumer, the ‘everyday Joe’, the Volt must be sold at no more than $3,000 to $5,000 over a comparable ICE sedan, unless we have $10+ per gallon gas at that time. The Volt has to have BOTH an ICE/genset plus a high performance electric motor. Both the ICE and the battery pack need a cooling system. The Volt must have vastly more complicated and expensive electronic monitoring systems for both the car and the battery pack. The battery packs themselves are expensive. I don’t see how GM can possibly sell the Volt for such a low premium over a conventional ICE car. I think the Volt will be a hit with certain segments of our society that have a statement to make, but the ‘masses’ may be unable to afford it.

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DA Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:55 am

Grizzly,

Can I interest you in the debt of GM instead? They have 6 debt issues that all trade on the NYSE. I assume all of their maturities are $25/share and they trade at about $.60 on the dollar (thats about $13-14/share). This means that the bods yield around 13-15% and all mature in like 20 years. IF GM is able to turn it around and avoid BK the bonds should trade back to $22-$25 depending on where corporate interest rates are for competing borrowers. In the mean time they pay about a $1.75-$2.00 in dividends/year.

This of course is not a recommendation to buy or sell anything. And i reccomend you do your own research, b/c this is the first time i’m looking at them. The tickers are: gmw, xgm, gms, bgm, hgm, rgm

Here is a link to GM’s fixed income investor page: http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/fixed-inc-sec/fixed-inc-sec.jsp

you can also pull the registration statements and filings which will further describe the terms and security of the bonds at http://www.sec.gov.
I happen to like http://www.nasdaq.com. You can input all the tickers there and then use the pull down menus to select the realtime filings.

I think if you are a gm stock holder you should consider this as a safer bet with good upside. If GM does go Bk, the bonds will likely be converted into ‘new stock’ so you may get something in the long run, where as the current stock holders will likely get wiped out.

Best,
DA

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omegaman66 Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:07 am

If GM can get the cost down on their 2 mode hybrids they would be able to sale them in good numbers, but right now the cost is just too high. Little competition right now in that market from the other companies.

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Anthony BC Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:47 am

At least GM is doing better!

Grizzly #24 – MAN, I never knew our squirrels were so BIG?!?!?!

GO GM, GO VOLT !

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The Grump Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:04 am

#28 DonC – I agree wholeheartedly. Who the hell wants a MILD hybrid? Do we go to see “mild” Nascar races? Do we demand “mild” chili at chili cook-offs? Do we want to see “mild” pro wrestling? Give me a break with the “mild” hybrids. I am not impressed.

Where is GM’s Prius-killer? Where is the GM vehicle that can compete with the Civic Hybrid? I’ll tell you – they have nothing to match the Civic Hybrid’s 45/48 MPG, much less any competition for the Prius. Period. Tell me I’m wrong – tell me about the Chevy model at the GM dealer today, which gets better mileage than a Civic Hybrid. I would love to be proven wrong on this one.

Yeah, GM, Ford, and Dodge got caught with their pants down this year. The question is, where do they go from here to save themselves. Mild hybrids will NOT save them. Bob Lutz is working on something that may save GM, if they get it to market before GM goes into bankruptcy, and if they they can get the battery cost under control, so the price is competitive with the Prius / Civic Hybrid (both are “comfortably unber $30,000.00″ – How ironic is that). We shall see, over the next 28 months or so.

A lot of Prius and Civic Hybrid models will be sold in the next 28 months – all lost sales for GM. Pity.

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hermant Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:37 am

1,149 hybrids sold this month divided by 4,376 hybrids sold this year is 26.25% of YTD sales in just 16.67% of the YTD. That indicates hybrid sales are indeed ramping up quite nicely. Good show, GM!

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:10 am

BEV Volt or Malibu or Cobalt. I’d buy any next year. TED

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:17 am

I’m glad that GM did better than expected.

I’m not a big fan of a Two-Mode hybrid.
Series hybrid seems better to me.

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Large Smile Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:26 am

Hybrid what???? 7.8L V8 engine with 2-mode hybrid system, are you kidding? Fewer than 999 have been sold by GM and Chrysler so far and they still can’t stop the decline of SUV. There is no doubt GM, Chrysler and Ford will decline further, because they only want short-term gain. The volt is completely a smoking-gun, oh, yeah, if gas drop to $3.50 by december, the Detroit three will blank every media outlet about their super-efficient SUV which can get 16mpg. If Detroit is completely defeated, they have themselves to blame. No bail out by federal government using my tax money!, NO bail out with my $$!
NO bail out with my $$!
NO bail out with my $$!
NO bail out with my $$!

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cyclop Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:28 am

#26 Paul-R

The low numbers sold of GM hybrids are consequences of their higher prices. Think of it this way: If there was no price difference, virtually every customer would take the hybrid, for there is a small but good change in mileage. As it is, there is a big price difference for a small improvement, so the benefit does not justify the price difference, in the eyes of most people.

The Volt likely can be sold with a big price difference at first because it is a car that can be used with no gas at all, so it is really fundamentally different, not just an increment. It also will have a gee-whiz factor if it looks good. However, to get into big numbers of sales (100K and up), I think everyone in and out of GM agrees that the price increase over its competitors has to get a lot smaller than what is projected.

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nucboy Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:31 am

Just a note on GM’s Hybrid sales. I can see why they don’t sell too many (at least at the dealership I visited).

I went to The Jerry’s Chevrolet dealership near Exit 30 on the Baltimore, MD beltway last weekend. This is supposed to be a large dealership and it claims to have the largest indoor showroom in MD. I went to see the lineup of hybrids and wanted to look at the 36mpg cobalt. I did not see either type of vehicle. If they had them, they were not out front anywhere.

What I saw, as a casual observer looking for fuel efficiency, was the 32 to 33 mpg aveos (dissapointing mpg but a decent price), the 31-32 mpg cobalts (a nice little car but I would rather wait for the 40+ mpg replacements), and the larger cars.

Where GM looked good was on the larger cars like the Malibu and Impala. The malibu highway mileage was 31 mpg (I did not see the hybrid malibu) and the impala was 30 mpg (very good for such a big car with a decent power).

My point is, This dealer focused on the bigger cars but really did not seem to have much stock in the higher mileage vehicles. The Volt and the 40+ mpg cobalt replacement will be nice additions to the lineup and they are much needed.

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RB Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:35 am

What happened with the Toyota Sequoia?

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Schmeltz Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 am

I agree with Statik 100% regarding the reason for GM’s sales surprise this month being attributed to the rebate program. Sadly, I have to disagree with Mark LaNeve’s comments about the hybrid market. GM, although they made a small amount of progress with hybrid sales, they have a long, long way to go before being even relevant in the hybrid world. Ford can sell every hybrid Escape they are willing to make without breaking a sweat. It makes me wonder what Ford could do once they get hybrid manufacturing costs under control? But that’s a subject for another day.

In short, good to see GM selling more hybrids, but keep pushing forward, especially with the Volt!

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BillR Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 am

Although hybrid sales are currently low, GM is just getting into the hybrid game.

The sales of 2-mode hybrid Tahoes, Yukons, and pickups will continue to ramp up with high gasoline prices. The Saturn Vue will get close to 30 mpg overall, have a towing capability of 3500 lbs, and go 0-60 in 7.3 seconds. In another year it will add plug-in capability. Nasaman can provide more info.

Although the BAS hybrids currently offer only modest gains in mileage, in another year the BAS+ with Li-Ion batteries and a larger drive motor will offer even more savings, again at a modest price increase.

Then in 2010 we will get the Volt and E-Flex technology.

So in a few years, GM customers will have many choices for fuel efficient vehicles, from low cost BAS+ to full 2-mode heavy-duty capability. And for the ultimate in efficiency, the Volt, and other follow-on E-Flex vehicles.

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Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:17 am

#32 DA

Great post DA.

If you have to invest, this is a better alternative. I got into a debt service/bonds ditty awhile back….I don’t know if this is the forum where that type of thing is appreciated, but I do. Thanks.

Even a mild turnaround would net you a 50%, if GM gave off the appearance of being able to stick it out, as you say, you might get 75-100% back. The added bonus is the 5% kick back for each year GM does survive.

More importantly, the bonds will have a value in a bankruptcy situation, (would be hard to peg at a residual $ value, but something).

Stock 9 times out of 10 is worthless in Chapter 11, because you essentially are a owner of the company, which is now bankrupt, so just like in real life….your out the door, your debtors own your business now.

As DA points out, if the company is ‘reorged’ and comes out of bankruptcy, as compensation, you get a share of that new company. (It would still be alot less that your initial investment, but you would be able to recoup somes losses…or stick it out and maybe the new company can make some decent returns on your new equity position).

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Morgan Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:19 am

39 Large Smile:

You aren’t accustomed to thinking long term are you?

If you understand profit margins, legacy costs, Domestic labor costs vs. Domestic foreign import labor costs (like I suspect Statik does, the man is very smart) you understand exactly why all this has gone on and there was very little GM could do given scarce resources. Corner the high margin SUV market or the low margin efficiency sedan market where you will likely be losing money on every car sold unless you price yourself out of competitiveness that was the choice they faced 10-15 years ago.

Yes, the government may bail out GM with my money. My money goes into bigger losers on a daily basis in Federal Education spending, bridges to nowhere, wars, embezzled foreign aid, and all sorts of useless things.

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Morgan Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:31 am

43: Schmeltz:

I am not sure that Ford can ever get hybrid costs under control to be honest with you. They are licensing the technology from Toyota correct?

They will have a licensing fee to begin with and then you have the increased labor costs vs. foreign domestics. Right now the hybrid market is booming due to limited supply so every effective hybrid is selling regardless of increased costs. How many have bought a Ford hybrid who would have rather bought a Toyota or Honda but couldn’t find one and settled with what was available?

Then you and I don’t know the specifics of the licensing contract so…there could be volume upscales on the fees and all sorts of tricky things in there.

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brandon Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 am

#31 57silver

Most intelligent post I have seen on these boards!

I am just about to put money down on a 2009 Jetta TDI Wagon. $24,000 gets me a car slightly smaller than the Malibu in a wagon form that will get me mid 30s in the city low 50s on the highway. I want to buy a GM product but they have no such thing. I will wait until I hear confirmation of what powerplants will be available in 2010, but if I can’t get a midsized GM car that can get me 50mpg on the highway its bye bye GM.

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Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:36 am

Fresh News:

General Motors cut to underperform at Merrill Lynch. GM turns negative 5% .50 premarket.

LONDON (MarketWatch) — General Motors was downgraded to underperform from buy at Merrill Lynch. On GM, Merrill cut its price target to $7 from $28 and said the automaker needs a $15 billion capital infusion. “We believe there is potential downside in the stock below $7 and that bankruptcy is not impossible if the market continues to deteriorate and significant incremental capital is not raised,” the broker said.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7b925A6F6A-77F6-43FF-81FB-F0C8D23785F2%7d&siteid=yhoof2

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Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:46 am

#47 Morgan

You are right about the Ford Escape. Even Ford themselves are not fully behind their own project here. They just can’t get it under control. Ford could sell more if they wanted to…but it’s kind of like selling milk as a lost leader.

Most of Ford’s ‘hybrid’ eggs are in the Fusion Hybrid in the fall (well, I guess actually no deliveries until Jan 09 so they can call it a 2010). This is the car that Ford makes it’s money on, and the ‘full hybrid’ should only add on to it’s success.

Business 101: It’s better to improve on what you do well rather than to try and fix something that you do poorly.

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Joe Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:53 am

To Grizzly #4

“Plenty of fight. The GM Mgmt of the 80’s 90’s could never have pulled this off. I’ve said it many times, a little patience and the right business model can pay off. This is only a glimmer of what’s to come, it just won’t be overnight! Hang in there!”

I agree with you 100%. GM has many great technological things in store for the near future — not to mention also with the UAW. Just watch and see, those Toyota lovers won’t laugh as much when this starts happening.

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Joe Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 am

“Two-Mode has been deemed a technology intended for large vehicles only. And based on my research, it doesn’t appear that scaling down to just a 4-cylinder engine provides as much of a benefit. Hopefully, someone will chime in with details…”

Cost is the problem using the two mode hybrid in small cars. When GM makes enough of them, cost will go down and you will see it in all GM vehicles. GM plans to use it to replace most of the regular transmissions. Trust me, I know.

(Quote)
Nelson Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:17 am

Here’s an interesting suggestion to boost current sales. GM should announce all owners or leasers of GM vehicles 2008 and above will have first dibs on the purchase of the first 10,000 E-Flex vehicles, like the Volt. Trade-in optional.

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Jim F. Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am

#26 “I wonder if GM’s puny hybrid sales numbers are because they couldn’t make more, or because they couldn’t sell more.”

They couldn’t make more due to a battery pack problem. GM had to recall 9000 hybrids (Vue, Aura, Malibu) to replace a leaking battery pack manufactured by Cobasys. The problem has been solved, so the hybrid sales should increase.

(Quote)
Jason M. Hendler Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:31 am

The BAS hybrids and two-mode hybrids will keep GM in the game, while Ford and Chrysler fade. Right now, it’s about holding on until the Volt comes out, while competitors fall.

I like that GM priced their hybrids for profit, and only slashed prices when needed. I’ve known too many companies that started by giving away their products, and were never able to raise / maintain prices and reduce costs to make a profit – that is a great way to fail before you even start. Even if they don’t make a profit now, they will at least hold market share in the interim.

Hopefully, our government will offer “green bonds”, and then lend that low interest money to GM and other automakers with factories in the US for the purpose of domestic R&D, retooling of factories and construction of new battery plants.

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Jim F. Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 am

#52 “Cost is the problem using the two mode hybrid in small cars. When GM makes enough of them, cost will go down and you will see it in all GM vehicles. GM plans to use it to replace most of the regular transmissions. Trust me, I know.”

I agree. I would like to see Saturn Vue two mode with a 4 cylinder ICE option. With two 55 KW motors in the two mode tranny, there should be adequate power for most conditions (not pulling a trailer, etc.)

(Quote)
Michael Roberts Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:37 am

I’ve got a old 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (Supercharged) 3.8L V6 and I regularly get 31 MPG on the highway. So GM has been making efficient cars for some time…

Mike

(Quote)
Joe Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:39 am

to #46 Morgan

“You aren’t accustomed to thinking long term are you?

If you understand profit margins, legacy costs, Domestic labor costs vs. Domestic foreign import labor costs (like I suspect Statik does, the man is very smart) you understand exactly why all this has gone on and there was very little GM could do given scarce resources. Corner the high margin SUV market or the low margin efficiency sedan market where you will likely be losing money on every car sold unless you price yourself out of competitiveness that was the choice they faced 10-15 years ago.

Yes, the government may bail out GM with my money. My money goes into bigger losers on a daily basis in Federal Education spending, bridges to nowhere, wars, embezzled foreign aid, and all sorts of useless things.”

from Joe

Yes, Morgan, I’m with you on this one. After reading the link below, I’ve come to the conclusion, if we want to remain a great nation, we have to keep our major industries. The US government has to help like other nations do when a major company is in trouble. The auto industry is the biggest and if we lose this industry, there’s no much left. Read the link below and you’ll better understand.
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

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Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am

#54 Jim F

GM has forecasted to sell “at least 27,000 hybrids in 2008″

“I don’t know how many hybrids we could have sold, but we would have had at least 9,000 more batteries for the pipeline,” Wilkinson said (GM spokesman) “It’s not an insignificant number, but it’s also part of what happens with a brand-new technology.”

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2008/06/gm-hybrid-sales-hurt-by-recall-of-9000-faulty-batteries.html

(Quote)
Joe Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:06 am

#38
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:17 am
Rashiid Amul

“I’m glad that GM did better than expected.

I’m not a big fan of a Two-Mode hybrid.
Series hybrid seems better to me.”

Series hybrids have many drawbacks. They are good only for light loads. You will not see them in heavier vehicles because today’s batteries are not sufficient for heavy loads. With GM’s two mode, that’s where they have the edge.

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 am

I can think of a way to avoid cost comparisons with non-hybrid versions of the same car … stop making them.

What if you could only get a particular model with 2-mode? This would cause small riots, now; but I believe this may be what they’re eventually working towards: “GM, the only all hybrid car company.”

Watch the larger vehicles over the next 3 – 4 years, and I think we’ll see a strong clue.

(Quote)
Jason M. Hendler Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 am

Statik,

This is why I am glad that GM is moving away from the con artists in the NiMH industry. Those old men have been holding out for a payday so long, that they are happy to hurt any customer, just to see something for their decades of effort.

NiMH will just be a miserable footnote in automotive history.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:24 am

NiMH has certainly had a checkered past, which is a shame. It could have been a much more useful player the last decade.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:56 am

Other random bits on the wire this morning.

General Motors Corp (NYSE:GM – News) will need to raise as much as $15 billion in cash to shore up liquidity and bankruptcy is “not impossible” if the U.S. auto market continues to slump, Merrill Lynch said on Wednesday

“We continue to believe the company has sufficient liquidity for 2008 despite lower volumes,” GM spokeswoman Renee Rashid-Merem told Reuters. “If conditions continue to deteriorate, we would consider other operating measures.”

(Reuters)

(Quote)
Bernie Torbik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:57 am

Merrill Lynch has a realistic assessment of GM’s state on Yahoo Finance: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080702/gm.html

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:06 am

#65 Bernie Torbik

Nice timing. I think you linked to the article from Reuters I just referred to, hehe.

Kudos on getting a yahoo link through moderation…maybe the filter has changed, I had been avoiding Yahoo! links for the last month or so.

(Quote)
Jeff M Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 am

Bring back the Geo Metro or other vehicles similiar to it… 50+ mpg highway at a non-hybrid price (because it wasn’t a hybrid)!

(Quote)
Communist China Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:30 am

It is time for Red China Walmart to just BUY GM outright. They could do it easily with just one quarterly profit check. Walmart stores can then start selling select models directly from their storefronts. No need for most of the GM dealer network. Also this would give China a beachhead to start selling their Chery cars in mass quantities throughout USA at steep discounts. A China version of the Volt should sell for less than $7K with your choice of battery. Don’t laugh this plan has been proposed by several investment groups.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 am

GM is getting pummelled on the market right now:

$10.59 off a $1.16 even (-9.87%)

#19 Grizzly
“There is something to be said for digging in with a superior business model. I just bought some GM stock, and I assure you even for the modest cost I don’t expect to lose!”

#24 Grizzly
“Statik…That said I’m a step ahead of you, as always! I DO appreciate your concern but I must say that for the LT GM AT IT’S CURRENT price isn’t a bad gamble. Especially when you understand the business model.”

Guess you probably shouldn’t buy on the news before looking into it. Could have waited a day and not lost the money and got in 10% cheaper (if you really, really had to)

Normally I don’t respond when somebody gets owned, but the “That said I’m a step ahead of you, as always!” quote today, coupled with the “Statik, your wrong as usual” yesturday, was uncalled for…and just not true.

/karma

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080702/auto_stocks.html?.v=2

“Analysts, who had expected a much steeper drop, said GM’s sales were able to outpace those of most other automakers because of late-month incentives and double-digit jumps in demand for certain small- and mid-sized cars.

Deutsche Bank’s Rod Lache said that while previous incentive programs have resulted in temporary boosts to GM’s market share, they have generally been followed by drops in later months.

“If history is any guide, we would expect GM’s sales to experience ‘payback’ for the pulled forward sales in the months ahead,” Lache wrote in a note to investors.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 am

I saw somebody driving a brand new Tundra crew cab yeaterday, complete with a camper shell. That’s a pretty big truck! Put me in the mind of an Excursion, LOL.

I wonder what the guy who made the decision to spend seveal hundred million dollars to gear up to build those things is doing right now? Bolting rear view mirrors on Priuses in China?

Nobody’s perfect!

(Quote)
noel park Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 am

#67 Jeff M:

I’m with you. I’d buy one today.

And, with the advances in technology since then, who knows what mileage they could get? Advanced electronic engine management, Variable Valve Timing, maybe even BAS with regenerative braking? 60 mpg, no sweat, IMHO. Or, KISS and live with 50 – that’s OK too!

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 am

#70 noel park

“I saw somebody driving a brand new Tundra crew cab yeaterday…I wonder what the guy who made the decision to spend seveal hundred million dollars to gear up to build those things is doing right now? Bolting rear view mirrors on Priuses in China?”

So true Noel. Toyota got a little to. big on themselves trying to cut into this market, someone really decided to try and take the life from the big 2.5. I guess it was a calculated risk…but boy, bad timing, they really got it handed back to them on a platter.

(Quote)
DA Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm

#45 Statik:

how do you see 5% a year for each year while GM survives? The bonds at selling for $13-14 vs a $25 par at 7.25-7.5% coupon. Thats about 13-14% per year GM survives, paid quarterly! Talk about Wall street credit bearishness!!!

There is so much bearishness and trading around this ‘credit derivatives’ with respect to GM. People are betting against gm credit just to hedge a recession. I read an article that there is $1 trillion of these contracts outstanding on GM alone. My understanding is that there are offsetting positions, but the affect on GM bonds might be to exacerbate movements up and down as all these speculators need to unwind or hedge their positions as events unfold. In other words, you could see buying and selling opportunities driven by technical factors. This makes the GM debt really interesting if you like playing with fire. But certainly, with so much upside in the GM bonds if they pull thru, or even just muddle along for several years, i just don’t see the point in playing the stock.

I guess one could also put a few K down on the GM bonds and come 2011 if GM is still in biz it would go a long way to a Volt. I don’t see how GM goes BK and volt still comes out on schedule. Maybe I”m wrong on that…

–
DA

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm

#73 DA

Sorry, I wasn’t actually doing the math on what you make off the yields, I had a little tangent going on the side.

I was off in my mind, thinking about the credit default swaps with their 500 basis point annual premiums. I originally had two parts to my post reflecting on your post and also talking about that and the 27% upfront +5% on the latter to protect GM’s debt…then it got hell-aciously long and I edited it down…badly. My apologies.

I agree totally with all the things you are saying. Nice, informed posts! I appreciate them alot.

(Quote)
Neutron Flux Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm

#29 Law if all the companies were as smart as you they would have purchased oil futures and not have gotten caught with their pants down. You should have told all of us on this site 3 years ago to buy oil futures so we could buy our Volts off the profits. By the way how many millions of barrels did you buy on the futures market? Lets not be one-armed chair quarterbacks, no one expected gas prices to go so high so quick just like they did not expect the energy market in California to get rigged and almost put the two biggest utilities in the State out of business. Crap happens and although often man made, it generally comes about suddenly so the 3-4 year vehicle planning cycle does not have a chance. Lets be fair. We all fall into the same trap when times are good we do not plan for bad times that is why the Gumbynator has 20 Billion in debt to figure out for Ca. budget. He is worse than Gumby!

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:10 pm

As I was saying yesterday, the Japanese and Europeans do not have a lock on efficient and economical vehicles. Just look at Toyota’s and Nissan’s large trucks, as an example. Terrible mileage, just like their American cousins Chevy, Ford and Dodge. Same for large SUVs.

GM has the engineers and know-how to build efficient and economical vehicles, as we will see over the next 18 months.

All I can say at this point is: Go GM and Go, Go, Go Volt.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:13 pm

I notice we still have some naysayers on this posting. I guess that is ok, because I think they will be proven wrong.

(Quote)
DaveP Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm

I’m surprised nobody mentioned this because we’ve talked about it, before. One main reason GM has had such poor hybrid sales is that they haven’t made very many so they’ve sold all they’ve made, really. And one of the big reasons they haven’t made very many is because Cobasys manufactured 9000 bad batteries for GM. Thanks, Cobasys!!
So, they’re still a little weak on manufacturing them and the mild ones are still a little weak on cost savings, etc. but the last month’s sales totals are probably closer to their real “non-battery affected” numbers.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/02/gm-having-problems-with-cobasys-batteries-in-mild-hybrids/
If that’s true, then sales would have been like 50% more for the year. Still not great, but clearly better. If it’s the case that the 9000 batteries were the entire holdup, then they could have posted up to 9000 more sales, which is actually starting to get somewhere. We’ll just have to see how the hybrids play out this next quarter to get any real idea of where they actually stand in the marketplace.

Also, I’m not sure NiMH batteries are a problem, in general. The Panasonic large format ones in RAV4-EVs have been real workhorses (not to mention the post-Cobasys lawsuit small format Panasonic ones which have been real workhorses in things like the Prius and Civic). The problems with NiMH are really problems with Cobasys. Cobasys has almost certainly been tainted by its oil company overlords and can’t seem to figure out whether it wants to destroy NiMH or build NiMH. Of course, they’re old news, now. Technology marches forth and so we are on to better chemistries, now. Still, I’m kind of disappointed that NiMH could have been used to much greater advantage than it has been. Possibly the last 15 years have been a sadly missed opportunity that could have had serial hybrids already available but we will never really know.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:44 pm

#78 DaveP

I’m surprised nobody mentioned this because we’ve talked about it, before. One main reason GM has had such poor hybrid sales is that they haven’t made very many so they’ve sold all they’ve made, really. And one of the big reasons they haven’t made very many is because Cobasys manufactured 9000 bad batteries for GM. Thanks, Cobasys!!

We did, in posts:

#54 Jim F
#59 Statik

Long story short: GM expected to produce enough batteries to complete 27,000 cars, so max capacity would be 18,000 by year’s end.

(Quote)
Gary Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:43 pm

68 Statik, Re: GM being pummelled on the stock market, new stock lows, doom and gloom, blah blah, etc.

In regards to constant negativity, I’m re-posting a thought that probably few people read since I put it on a “stale” thread:
______________________________________

I remember once reading a comment regarding negativity in the media on the state of the economy and all, and it went something like “Pessimism and self-loathing will inflict far more damage to a society than bombs ever could.” This negativity makes people get all apathetic about where Canadian/American society is going, and makes them lose the drive to be competitive in the world marketplace.
______________________________________

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:39 pm

#80 Gary

We all deal with it in out own way I suppose. To each his own.

I’m not going to change, but feel free to counter balance my reality checks with positive thinking if you like. I doubt I could change your outlook anymore than you can change mine.

Cheers.

(Quote)
kevin R Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm

This just posted on our local tv station here in Michigan…

http://www.wnem.com/automotive/16768626/detail.html

Engineer Gets 110 MPG Out Of ‘87 Mustang
Ohio Man Competing For $10M Prize

POSTED: 10:21 am EDT July 2, 2008
UPDATED: 11:07 am EDT July 2, 2008
Doug Pelmear said he isn’t toying with the engine of 1987 Ford Mustang for the money.

The engineer’s tinkering, however, could earn him $10 million and save him plenty more in gas money.

Pelmear, who lives in Napoleon, Ohio, has tweaked his Mustang to get 110 mpg, making the engine nearly five times as efficient as a traditional gas engine, he told the Toledo Blade newspaper.

“We redesigned a lot of different things on the [engine] block,” Pelmear told the paper. “It’s still a rod-and-piston engine; it just has a lot more electronics on it.”

Traditional gas engines operate at 8 to 10 percent, efficiency, while the engine on the Mustang, he said, is at 38 percent efficiency.

He said he could greatly increase even that number if his car used traditional gasoline instead of a mix of gas and 85 percent ethanol.

Pelmear entered his car to win the the $10 million Progressive Automotive X Prize: a race to find an affordable, marketable automobile that gets at least 100 miles per gallon.

“I’m an optimist, and I think people need to know there is hope out there,” Pelmear told the Toledo Blade. “That’s why I decided to enter the X Prize race. I could have sold this [technology] off, but then people might not have seen it.

Pelmear told television station WNWO that the car hasn’t traded power for miles per gallon. Pelmear said the car has 400 horsepower, goes well over 100 mph and can go from zero to 60 mph in three seconds.

“This will bring back the automotive industry when they can sell trucks and SUVs and the models that are almost dead at this time,” he told WNWO.

(Quote)
Grizzly Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:07 pm

Statik # 70

“Guess you probably shouldn’t buy on the news before looking into it. Could have waited a day and not lost the money and got in 10% cheaper (if you really, really had to)

Normally I don’t respond when somebody gets owned, but the “That said I’m a step ahead of you, as always!” quote today, coupled with the “Statik, your wrong as usual” yesturday, was uncalled for…and just not true.”

*** *** ***

Don’t think I got “owned”. The shares I bought were part of a fund, the S&P 500 to be exact. GM and 499 other companies make up the fund which is a very good buy right now. I felt good on the GM news and bought a few extra shares beyond my normal DCA allotment. Nice thing about funds in general, and the S&P 500 in this case is that GM could go Chapter 7 straight liquid, and it wouldn’t rock the fund.

BTW Statik, I’ve never implied that YOU’RE always wrong.

(Quote)
Statik Says:
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:12 am

#85 Grizzly

“Don’t think I got “owned”. The shares I bought were part of a fund, the S&P 500 to be exact. GM and 499 other companies make up the fund which is a very good buy right now. I felt good on the GM news and bought a few extra shares beyond my normal DCA allotment. Nice thing about funds in general, and the S&P 500 in this case is that GM could go Chapter 7 straight liquid, and it wouldn’t rock the fund. ”

Guess there is just no winning against you, eh? You did get owned! Shares were part of a fund? Please. That is so weaksauce. TOTALLY not what you said. It was either a lie of misrepresentation then, or your lying now. I’ll quote it for you, just incase anyone is still lurking down here.

#19 Grizzly: “There is something to be said for digging in with a superior business model. I just bought some GM stock, and I assure you even for the modest cost I don’t expect to lose!”

I gave you a friendly warning to be cautious in #22, then you came back at me in:

#24 Grizzly: “You too should be sure before you post. That is making sure that I’m not just as full of the same hot air that proliferates itself on this site… I think you know what I mean! That said I’m a step ahead of you, as always! I DO appreciate your concern but I must say that for the LT GM AT IT’S CURRENT price isn’t a bad gamble. Especially when you understand the business model.”

Sometimes it’s better to just ‘man up’ and own a mistake, then try to backpeddle like this. Or just say nothing at all.

(Quote)

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