Ford Calls the Chevy Volt a Hail Mary Play
Ted Miller is Ford’s senior manager of energy storage. He outlined to Bloomberg News Ford’s cautious approach to plug-in vehicles.
Balking at the idea of what GM has done with the Volt he said "if there’s going to be a true plug-in hybrid market, we’re going to be there. It’s just that that’s a huge commitment to actually go to production.”
Miller acknowledged that such a major move is costly, stating "If we’re spending significant resources on plug-in hybrids, it means we don’t have a bucket of money”, and instead notes that Ford would rather take a sit back and watch strategy perhaps adopting the technology if cars like the Volt catch on.
Using the term normally applied to a desperate last ditch football play, Miller called an aggressive approach to plug-ins a "Hail Mary", specifically saying "the Hail Mary means that we’re probably going to have to neglect a lot of other things."
With oil skyrocketing and the economy spiraling this just may be the last play.
Source (Bloomberg )
Popularity: 6%
(8 votes, average: 3.25 out of 5) 
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June 28th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Looking at GM’s stock price and capital reserves it sure looks like it might be the last play… But hey, (almost) none of the pundits were favoring the NY Giants in the last Superbowl either!
Let’s just hope it doesn’t come down to the Volt saving the company (or a Federal bailout… nobody wins in that case).
June 28th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Ok Ford sit in the corner and wait and watch…. sounds like big oil money talking to me.!!! Thank You GM for working to develop this new technology not just the USA but the world needs the VOLT..
Voltik
June 28th, 2008 at 7:48 am
There’s really nothing new about automotive batteries, generators or electric motors; considering the tech has been around for decades.
The only “Hail Mary/moon shot” challenge (risk) I see is getting battery costs under control.
If GM can produce an EFlex vehicle for under $25k, they’ll have the best selling vehicle in the world.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:52 am
When other car manufacturers start saying negative things about the Volt to the press, then you know GM is on the right course. It means the other car manufacturers are scared.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Synergy McFly you are exactly right. And I might add or tweek what you said by saying that the safer bet is that battery tech (or energy storage) will meet the requirements of plugin cars rather than betting against li-ion and others.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Does anyone care what Ford is going to do? They and Chrysler have been sent into near bankruptcy by the UAW. As long as they are captured by those extortionists they can’t do anything.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:58 am
T O U C H D O W N
S C O R E
GM Wins. History made.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Amazing how people with a whole lot more money and expertese in their field than I just can’t see the correct path ahead of them. I just can’t get over how blind Ford can be on this subject.
What is it that they are thinking??? Is it all just a lie? Do they really know the correct path but say it isn’t clear to them yet just because they don’t yet have plugin hybrids anywhere close to being mass produced?
If I were forced to I would bet that Ford sees the handwritting on the wall but doesn’t want to say that for finacial reasons. But since I am not forced to bet it is more fun to bash companies when they make statements like this that I know are just flat out wrong.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Ford has supplied several Plug-in SUV’s
to SCE for fleet testing. The 2009 Ford hybrid is much improved, now able to go 40 MPH in EV mode. And Ford is working on an improved, read lithium battery.
So instead of acknowledging Ford dropped behind GM due to the economic necessity of its recent downsizing in the Plug-in Hybrid race, we get a recycled observation - GM already referred to the Volt project as a hail mary.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Kent@#6, Good stretch to bring union-bashing into the conversation. Unfortunately, Chrysler has the lowest % of union labor of the big three. Unfortunately, decision-making by companies does not bear out your comment either. When Toyota chose a location for its new RAV-4 plant in 2005, they passed on anti-union Alabama in favor of union-friendly Ontario province Canada. Give the hate a rest.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Ford decided to license Toyota’s hybrid design, which makes them seem to have a “foot in the plug-in door” to most of the buying public. Now that the opposing team (GM) has made a “hail mary” play, and is DEEP in their territory near the goal line, the smartest thing they can do is to hope GM loses the ball before they can make the winning goal, while they quietly plan other plays. That’s what the USSR did when the US got to the moon first. Taking an extended time out to re-assess your strategy makes sense when the other team is winning (or is way ahead). As we sometimes say it, “why fight a losing battle?” Maybe Ford will ultimately license the E-REV design from GM!
June 28th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Yes, GM may be doing too little, too late, but what does that say about Ford and it’s apparent approach - doing much less, much later.
I am surprised that automakers are seemingly still in denial that their products are dependent on a single increasing costly and ultimately unaffordable commodity.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Ford is playing it safe by bringing over the Euro Fiesta and Focus. Both will sell very well.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:25 am
What Ford should be doing is joining up with GM. Together they could build the Volt and maybe a near twin underpinnings in a Fusion with more money and manpower to get it successfully on the road quicker. Get Chrysler to join it to. The big three should be competing over this. They should join forces and dominate the electric car future.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:28 am
MarkinWI @ 10 — I agree. Here in Oshawa, Ontario, GM is closing their #1 quality truck plant next year, which is a CAW plant. The feeling around here is the closing has little to do with the union, but rather, the political climate in the US. It would seem that poor choice of the product portfoilio from the uppers at GM has led the company into the mess they’re in; not the “extortionist” unions as stated in post #6.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am
I have always been a Ford owner. I have never owed a GM product. I currently have two Fords in the driveway. My son is currently driving a Ford. I had always believed in their product. This “sit back and watch strategy” is a disaster for Ford. Other than the plug-in Escape I am not aware of any of Fords plans for plug-ins. The Volt will be my first GM car. So, Ford if you are reading this, take this bit of advice. Get off the pot and put your engineers to work building something that can match the Volt. If you dont the only place Ford will be able to sit and watch from is their porch. You will loose more market share and you will have no one to compete with except Kia. Get off your a$$!
June 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Interesting comments from Ford.
I can see why Ford needs to wait and see. They lose an extraordinary amount of money on Hybrid Escapes. Ford is at the mercy of AW, the transaxle supplier (the transaxle houses the motor and generator–key hybrid components). AW supplies transaxles to Toyota for the Prius and other their hybrid vehicles. AW is controlled by Toyota. So, Ford has very little control over the cost of the transaxle and in fact is somewhat at the mercy of their rival, Toyota.
The high cost of the Hybrid Escape has left a bad taste in Ford’s mouth. So, they’ve pulled back from hybrids and announced they are going to use more conventional means to meet CAFE and emissions standards (think, small displacement engines with turbos and direct injection).
At one point, Ford was impressively the third large OEM with a hybrid to market (behind Toyota and Honda). They were the American car company leader in hybrid technology. However, sustaining the high expense of the Hybrid Escape in this very weak automotive market has force Ford to take a wait and see approach to anything hybrid including plug-ins.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am
____________________________________________________
FORD = Mediocrity
GM = Lutz & Team VOLT
“Lutz” will become a word term after the successful launch of the GM VOLT. I can hear it now at a future Ford EV strategy meeting: “We need to Lutz that project.”
____________________________________________________
June 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am
If Ford sits back and waits until 2014 to start mass producing hybrids like the Volt, they’ll probably regret it. The train will have already left the station and they’d be in catchup mode while GM is working on even more technologically advanced hybrids every year. GM will be working on Volt 3.0 in 2014 while Ford is still making their first models. I think GM and the rest of the auto industry will probably start to resemble big computer OEMs like Dell and Hewlett Packard in the next 10 years. Computer companies have to move quickly or they get left in the dust.
When ex-Intel CEO Andy Grove says we are at a “strategic inflection point” I tend to sit up and take notice. He knows first hand what tipping points are like.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-grove-plug-ins,0,1749993.story
Grove was one of the original computer geniuses who was right in the middle of the action when the semiconductor industry took off back in the 60s. Microprocessors have come a long way from those early handheld calculator models to todays 45nm wonder chips. Soon Intel will be manufacturing 32nm processors. Then it’s on to 22nm and 15nm I hear. We’re talking transistors with gates only a few atoms wide. It is truly amazing that they can do this.
http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture-silicon/45nm-core2/
June 28th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Fords seems to forget the trend is already here…. but I guess they lack vision and means to get there so may as well wait and copy the winning approach.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:00 am
It’s hard for any company to fight against the status quo of gasoline. Ethanol should be the direction of choice for the USA. Less risk and could be easily integrated to the USA marketing system. Alas no corporate cooperation (OIL) for a common goal. Not even a compromise like say E-45. I’m amazed that oil companies haven’t merged with ethanol or created their own ethanol products. The invisible hand of economics isn’t working to well. I cringe when I see all the TV adds from oil companies telling us how they’re looking out for our interests, a blatant lie. I truly am proud of what GM is doing. BTW what is cash rich Toyota doing, I don’t consider the Prius that big of a deal, that’s why I never bought one. I THINK GM IS RIGHT ON TARGET. I hope GM buys Ford for a dollar a share!!
June 28th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Ford is doing the same as GM did when the Prius came out. I’m convinced the Volt will meet the specs laid out by GM and Ford will be caught behind the eight ball. At introduction, will the Volt sell with it’s high price? Yes, it will sell as fast as GM can makes their limited amount. If the price were more affordable, GM could not make enough at beginning. So, a high price at the beginning is a good strategy. Later, when the price goes down, a new car revolution will be underway. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure how successful the Volt will be. Take for example, many many DC government workers commute about 50 miles to work….living in DC is too expensive. Many time traffic on highway 95 is bumper to bumper and those fifty miles or so, can get very expensive. Highway 95 is very flat and lends itself to an electric car. Air conditioning is what worries me but I have faith GM will solve that problem. For those DC workers, the government should set an example and build and infrastructure so workers can plug in while working. I just hope our leaders can see the light. Real leaders are hard to find nowadays.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Rarely has this been said over the past decade, but the Ford guys are right. They aren’t sitting back at all…they have acted for today. (Albeit probably too late for them too).
This is a “Hail Mary” for GM…and they really don’t have the money to spend on this project.
I think what the Ford guy is trying to suggest, is that putting lots and lots of money (that you don’t have) into a future car that will be a limited run for a company in GM’s situation is a little irresponsible.
If GM was in a better financial situation, the Volt project would be considered extremely forward thinking, but under GM’s ‘ticking clock countdown,’ it seems as if they are dellusional of their situational health to get them there.
Ford is right to put there money behind the ” gasoline-electric version of the Fusion sedan due later this year.”
The Ford talking head (Miller) in that article says, “Spending significantly less on hybrids is probably not a good option.” Infering that GM would have been better off spending the ‘Volt’ money on ‘hybridizing (if that was a word) there small to mid size car lineup.
It’s hard to argue with that logic.
Ford is hitting the market with the ‘perfect car’ for this market and very soon, they will also be able to sell about as many of these bad boys as they can pump out…and they can pump out alot. Added cost? $4,200 (the magic 4K premium number we all look for in doing the ‘hybrid math’)
GM should have/needs badly a small ‘real’ hybrid car…10x more than they need the Volt.
However, they figured they weren’t going to make enough money on them. They thought they could make a ‘mild hybrid’ SUV, put a sticker on it, charge $10,000 more and everything would be great. I don’t blame them for spinning the wheel…it just happened to land on ‘bankrupt’
I really don’t get how people think Ford is sitting back at all, they are bringing a ‘Prius fighter’ to the market in a couple months. What is GM bringing? A new exhibit for Tomorrowland? What’s that do for their bottomline?
June 28th, 2008 at 9:14 am
True, GM has bet the farm on the VOLT and now Ford has taken the same aproach as Honda, that of not offering a technology based product with an unproven record of sales or profits. History shows the pioneers always draw the arrows, when successfull they also reap the greater rewards. My bet here in Las Vegas is on the VOLT.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Donan #14 Agreed. The Big 3 should join force, and nail this thing shut!
June 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am
It seems like with no matter how many great vehicles GM comes out with, GM can not seem to get traction. Buyers will not buy GM unless GM comes out with something that’s revolutionary. And that is the Volt. The Volt is GM’s next 1957 Chevrolet.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am
It amazes me sometimes how far off the road the Big 3 can get, and then have to watch as they scramble uphill to catch up.
I truly believe plugins are the future and think Ford is making a huge mistake.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:24 am
As far as Ford wondering about how people will be able to charge their cars up without having a garage … people will just have to make the necessary changes. If it comes down to getting a charging station installed or putting up a car shed in your back yard, I think people will do it. Apartment managers will put up charging stations in order to get people to move to their “high tech, upscale apartment complex”. Architects will be designing new homes with car charging in mind. People will actually start parking their cars IN their garage instead of using it as a storage unit.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/05/picture-edf-toyota-prius-plug-in-charging-station/
http://www.sheltersofamerica.com/productdetails.php?productid=690&id=1
It sure beats paying $7-8 a gallon like we might be doing in 2011! That’ll focus the minds of people that want to drive without paying an arm and a leg for it. Paying over $120+ for a tank of gas every week or two will bring out a LOT of innovative ways of keeping your Volt or other electric car juiced up. Humans are usually pretty adaptable creatures. Always have been … or we wouldn’t have survived the last Ice Age, etc.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Statik,
It is foolish for GM to try to compete with Toyota or Honda on small, high mileage / low performance vehicles. GM’s push to hybridize their SUV’s, to protect their money makers, was spot on, given their cost structure relative to Japanese automakers. Those systems are now working their way into Saturn Vue’s, a cross-over that people want. Additionally, the Vue will have a plug, so that it can drive some limited range in EV mode only, before the Prius will have a plug.
Ford is just caught flat footed, and hoping their ethanol vehicles will sell. The bad news for them is that everyone is waiting for the plug-in vehicles to appear, and not buying any interim solutions. Ford’s other “perfect car” that you salute, is in direct competition with the Civic and Prius, and can’t compete - dumb to spend money on a losing battle.
GM is on the right path, and forcing the entire industry to follow - I don’t see anyone but Ford following Toyota. Even Tesla Motors announced that they are foregoing their REEV option, as they know they can’t compete with GM.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am
#29 Jason M Hendler
I agree with you 100% on GM’s decision to mild ‘hybridize’ their SUVs. That is something they needed to protect…unfortunately the market smoked the sector, that life I guess.
However, it is not foolish to come out with a small/mid-size hybrid. As I have said with the Prius/Volt competition. It does not have to be looked at like that. There is room for everyone here…the space is so wide open and the demand is so high, it’s ridiculous.
“The bad news for them is that everyone is waiting for the plug-in vehicles to appear, and not buying any interim solutions” This just is not accurate, people are buying any and every short term solution they can get their hands on.
Every hybrid car under 30K is selling lilke hotcakes. “Plain Janes” that are just economical are selling like crazy too. Check the year over year for GM on just run-of-the mill Aveos, Cobalts….the Vibe is GM’s monster right now, the only reason is it is ’sport-cute,’ gets the mileage and is affordable
June 28th, 2008 at 10:16 am
FORD takes the field with the new Econetic line up.
What’s this?
It looks like GM is going for it.
Here’s the snap.
Bob steps back into the pocket, he’s got plenty of time, good protection. Oh! He decides to launch it, it’s the old “Hail Mary” play.
Looks like a ‘moon shot’ here for GM.
The ball is in the air. It looks long enough, the special teams receivers are in position, they jump. It’s caught!!! The crowd has gone wild here, they love this bold new concept that Gm has just rolled out in this game!
Are you kidding me! GM has just won the game, with a line up the critics said would never work.
FORD is left standing on the field stunned by GM’s performance.
This truly is a game changer by GM. Looks like it’s back to the drawing board for Fix Or Repair Daily.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:21 am
#29 Jason M Hendler
“”Ford’s other “perfect car” that you salute, is in direct competition with the Civic and Prius, and can’t compete - dumb to spend money on a losing battle” Ford is going to sell everyone of these it can put out…the Fusion will be the best selling car in their lineup.
Are we talking about the same thing? The Ford Fusion? Ford’s best car (other than the Focus). The one that is still up 31% in April 08 when the domestic market is off 30%, and considering all that, it is also at the end of it’s life-cycle? The one that is getting the full redesign and the fancy hybrid in the fall? This IS the car people will buy if they don’t like the look of the Prius, or want to buy domestic.
GM is offering nothing…nothing at all to compete in this space, the hottest space in the market. The 2013 Volt (when their is production of value) is all well and good, but what about today?
Sorry, sometimes we disagree, and I just say, ‘ok we disagree, ‘ but on this one you are completely wrong. The Fusion is a homerun, in a year that everyone is striking out. Again, other than the Focus, this is Ford’s best hope. I don’t know if they can build enough to keep the banker from taking their house, but it’s a monster for them.
You can say Ford is a tired company, they have a bloated, aged lineup that they can’t get away from fast enough…and I will agree with you. You can say they will probably go out of business before GM, and I might agree with that too. But they do have a couple good products…this is one of them.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:23 am
They said the Wright Borthers, Edison and Henry Ford were crazy, so GM is joining very good company. Sure, the Volt is a big jump, but that’s how real progress is made. Remember the turtle (Ford), you don’t get anywhere unless you stick out your neck. GM is on the right path and is going to revolutionize the industry. The hybrids, such as Prius are still basically gas guzzlers - They just guzzle less, but not that much. The world has been driving gasolene cars for over 100 years and they are always suspicious of something new. so they will be suspicious of the Volt when it is first announced publically. However, when they realize that gas prices are never going down, they will start to look at the Volt and when they begin to realize all the advantages that electric cars have, GM won’t be able to make them fast enough.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Sure, we really are interested in what a representative from the near broke and bankrupt Ford Motor company has to say!
Ford has been mismanaged into oblivion and now they will miss the boat……….AGAIN!
June 28th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Slow edit on the grammar:
“The 2013 Volt (when their is production of value) is all well and good, but what about today”
should read”
“The 2013 Volt (when their production is of value) is all well and good, but what about to
June 28th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Attitudes like Miller’s is the reason FORD stock closed at $4.98 yesterday. Guess they’re still analyzing their SIX SIGMA review of why their cars aren’t selling.
Hey FORD, how about making and selling something the public wants.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:50 am
#36 Nelson says, “Hey FORD, how about making and selling something the public wants.”
I agree. Unfortunately, the same can be said for GM as well.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:57 am
The Cobalt is very close to the Ford Focus as far as sales go. If GM would do a little more advertising of this great little car it could pull ahead of the Focus in sales. Does Ford have anything to compete with the Aveo ?? If and when GM starts producing more of the Malibu Hybrids that should also help the bottom line. But with the downward trend on the dollar many of us won’t be able to afford a loaf of bread let alone a Volt. If only the buggywhip manufacturers had as much money as the oil companies we could still be saying whoa nellie before we come to a stop light.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:57 am
#14 Donan
“What Ford should be doing is joining up with GM. Together they could build the Volt and maybe a near twin underpinnings in a Fusion with more money and manpower to get it successfully on the road quicker. Get Chrysler to join it to. The big three should be competing over this. They should join forces and dominate the electric car future.”
#25 Rashiid,
“The Big 3 should join force, and nail this thing ”
I agree with you both 100%. The time to look at each other as enemies is in the past.
I don’t know about a car with the same underpinnings, but a unified effort in battery development/production/hybrid technologies would be a massive advantage over all three attempting to go solo.
I look at GM and Toyota’s co-operative effort over the Vibe/Matrix as a example of a successful “Frien-emies” collaboration. The big three could have a very profitable relationship in this ‘new world’
June 28th, 2008 at 11:11 am
“Ford would rather take a sit back and watch strategy perhaps adopting the technology if cars like the Volt catch on.”
And who says Ford hasn’t learned from the Japanese? Assuming Ford survives, they’ll copy, copy, copy the Volt technology.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:19 am
#23 Statik
Thanks for giving a different perspective. If GM gets real desperate, it could produce more Volts faster - in for a penny, in for a pound.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:24 am
#6 kent beuchert
We’re doing sports analogies today. Blaming the UAW for problems is like blaming the refs for the loss. If your team were a lot better, the refs wouldn’t matter.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:25 am
#41 ThombDbhomb
“Thanks for giving a different perspective” Seems like that is my ‘defacto’ roll here, lol. I really don’t come into these saying to myself, I’m just going to take something the other way…I’m not trying to be Devil’s advocate.
But yeah, I really think co-operatively developing/producing somthing like the battery pack would be a no-brainer. Cost of development split 3 ways, using the best of all three’s ideas, and most importantly, net volume pushing the cost/kWh down as fast and as low as it can be. (Added bonus of not always trying to ‘undo’ and ‘one-up’ each other as well, getting all your minds together and moving forward).
June 28th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Statik,
In two years, Toyota and Honda will have ramped up their production, and pushed Ford out of the market. At that time, GM will introduce the Volt, which will eat into Toyota and Honda’s sales.
You only have to see who the industry is following to know who is going to win. As even Toyota is now promising a Li Ion plug-in for their Prius, it is clear who will be best positioned.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:48 am
How about “Moon Shot” rather than “Hail Mary” …
For you guys talking about the Big 3 joining forces, check this out:
http://www.uscar.org/guest/index.php
and the Advanced Battery Consortium:
http://www.uscar.org/guest/view_team.php?teams_id=12
I don’t think it would be good for all three companies to work together on a whole vehicle. Rather, co-development of certain components, like the hybrid transmission by GM/Chrysler/BMW/Daimler, have shown some really positive results.
#23. Statik
Toyota is on their 3rd generation Prius. You’re suggesting that GM try to compete with this despite being years behind in development. I prefer to see GM carving out their own niche.
also … “mild hybrid SUV”? The Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade is a full-hybrid two-mode that has more capability for increased efficiency than the Toyota Prius does.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
You can either throw a “Hail Mary” or just stand around and wait for the clock to run out.
Having said that, I have to agree with Statik, and Rashiid at #37. If GM doesn’t have something up its sleeve to bridge over until Volt/e-flex ramps up to some real volume (2013?) they could well disappear before the “Hail Mary” is caught.
I agree that the “mild hybrid” is more of a PR exercise than a real solution. Even so, a 2010 (2009 release) Cobalt with the 1.4 turbo, rumored 6 speed automatic, and the “mild hybrid” might get into a bragging rights mpg range. I would buy one of those.
I think that it would be appropriate for Lyle to quiz his contacts in GM as to what is in the pipeline. We keep hearing about the “40 mpg Cobalt”. What is it? Is it real, or just another “40 mpg highway” spin exercise? I woluld really like to know how GM intends to keep its head above water for the next 5 years.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
PS: Didn’t Bob Lutz, or somebody, say that GM was going to release 14 hybrids in the next 3 years, or some such number? How about if they gave us some visibility into that? I really care what happens to GM. If they are going to have products that I want to buy, I would like to know about it, so that I can plan accordingly.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
If only GM and Ford had enough money today, they could eat Toyota in five years. Both GM and Ford now see the light but a little too late. I’m sure Toyota is praying that things don’t go well for the domestics. If only GM and Ford could have competed on fair grounds to begin with, they would have made better choices. The US government allowed it to happen and the results were inevitable. How could GM and Ford compete fairly with the Japanese when GM and Ford had huge legacy cost when the Japanese didn’t have any. Take away only this one unfairness and it could have made a big difference, not to mention all the other unfair practices. Only in this country can this happen because of our do nothing politicians constantly fighting among themselves.
If want to read how the Japanese got where their at today, click on the link below.
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html
June 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Hey Jeff 21.
The reason the oil companies don’t promote E-xx is one, they HAVE bought ethanol companies. TO BURY THE TECHNOLOGY. Just as they have bought battery companies/technology!!!!!!!!!!!
The past eight years has just made me sick! Bush should have been impeached for misleading the American people into the Iraq war and Cheney should be in prison for colluding with the oil companies to stonewall any meaningful energy policy for our nation.
The reason gas is over $4 a gallon is the weak dollar due to the U.S. printing money to pay for the Iraq war and the oil companies are making money like the robber barons that they are thanks to politicians like Cheney that have insulated the oil industry from political action during this administration!
The Chevy Volt is a reaction to the FACT we are running out of cheap oil (not that we are running out of oil. We’re running out of CHEAP oil). The handwriting is on the wall and Lutz (if no one else) sees this.
Go GM! REVOLUTION NOW!
June 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Wow! Talk about shortsighted vision, or total lack thereof. Memo to Ford and others: “We are waiting for PHEVs, EREVs or full EVs and we’re not buying anything else until we get them.” If GM follows through with the E-Flex application to large SUVs and trucks, it’s goodbye Ford and Chrysler, one or both are not going to be around in 10 years.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Here’s more on Andy Grove’s ideas on converting from oil to electric vehicles.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/andy-grove-offers-an-energy-solution/?hp
June 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
hi guys my 2 cents about peoples opinions to this date r as follows
the conspiracy theorist says : the volt is alien tech and will ruin our economy
the emo/goth: what i can sit idle in my garage all day and not kill myself? WTF!
the average person.. holy chit i can save THAt much on gas money.. homeland sequrity should be paying us!
the japanese tech junky says : i want one with a playstation in it!
the europeans say: cheerio what a bashing good idea we been paying for petro though the gills for years!
does it come in tea color?
the southamericans would say cool that fits into our whole self reliance scheme already .
the eskimo says theres no roads up here but id buy anyway!
the sports pro:ill buy one and pimp it out with 4 tvs and a xbox and spinning hubcaps
the teenagers:plug in like my game boy? cool!.. just gotta save my allowance..
the sugar daddy..: jesus she takes alot of my money .. ill buy her a volt so she dont cost an arm and a leg for just gas!
even the druggies and the drunkies: chit if it saves money on gas? ill buy one just to have more money for my addictions!
..the enviomentalists: we already r on the waiting list.. twice..
see everyone would buy this vehicle
just gotta market it..
well except the emo/goths
lol
June 28th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
#52 Jeremy
No clue what just happened there.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
lol sorry just attempt at humor and volt has a huge demographic
swath if gm can make the car in the numbers needed its a sure fire win
June 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
KentT #49
I agree with you Kent. The “oil companies are burying ethanol” and they are burying the USA’s and the world’s economy too. And Dubya, he does nothing but try to get drilling permits. TOTALLY FRICK’N UNREAL !!!!
GO VOLT !!!! GO GM !!!!
June 28th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
“Ford would rather take a sit back and watch strategy perhaps adopting the technology if cars like the Volt catch on”
Isn’t this the strategy that got American car makers behind Toyoto in the first place ? It’s a lot tougher to catch up than to lead. Maybe Ford was just acknowledging that they can’t keep up with world leaders anymore and that they’re just a niche player in the automotive game. I find Ford’s comments more wishful thinking than anything else. Go GM your the best we’ve got
June 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
The VOLT will be a huge winner in part because the Prius paved the way. Of course one car by itself can’t be enough to save GM from financial ruin but, as someone who has never really considered a GM product, I have to say I’m impressed by the technology GM has. GM is bringing out some great products. Even if they go Chapter 11 they should be alright going forward.
#55 Kent — can’t agree more here. What kind of moron would say the problem is that we’re addicted to herion (oil) so the solution is to go find more herion (drill for more oil). What I don’t get is his approval rating. I can understand 10%, that’s white noise, but who are the remaining 15% of the idiots who think he’s doing a good job?
In the meantime, I’m curious if any others are intrigued with the Poulsen Hybrid motor. It’s such an interesting idea in that you can retrofit any vehicle and that it’s not very expensive given the expected payback. Since most of the gas is used by guzzlers, improving the mileage of these vehicles by 10-15 miles per gallon could eliminate half the oil imports. The price of these things is cheap so there isn’t a ton of margin for GM but I’d think they could come up with retrofits for their vehicles and have the dealers install them. If we just took a fraction of the 12 - 24 billion we’re pouring into the rat hole we call Iraq we could easily have GM retrofit all their cars in a few years, giving GM a financial boost so they could continue their work.
Obviously just a thought. But the poinht is that the gas problem is not that hard to solve. All we need is something more than less than zero leadership.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Rashiid Amul #37
Well at least you can’t say they’re not trying produce something that the public may want with the Volt. This may a big gamble and with big gambles comes big rewards. Cheers. Go GM
June 28th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Ford is completely out of touch with the new reality.
I had some hopes when Ford supported the Think, Electric Ranger, and Hybrid Escape.
But sadly, by 2010 we’ll be watching Ford’s outdated vehicles sit in dealer lots and slowly fade into oblivion.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Ed M #58. So true. One must give credit where credit it due. I really do applaud GM for doing what they are doing. I just wish they had started much earlier.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Cramer is out this weekend touting that it’s in GM’s best interest to go bankrupt, that it can’t raise capital with new share offerings, etc.
Very subdued video for Cramer, but interesting:
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/video/strategysession/10423626.html?cm_ven=YAHOOV&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#10423626
Written article on same subject:
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/investing/10423696.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA
I’ve said, who knows how many times, that this is the way to go. Just shut it down and rebuild it. Like the Six Million dollar man, faster, stronger…and of course much smaller. Forget the nonsense about selling the most, just sell something at a profit. We can just cross our fingers that the ‘Volt project’ survives along with GM.
At least now it is finally hitting the ‘mainstream’ media that this is a viable option. Should soften the public up to it some. Probably is going to bring some more pain next week though.
…and thats a good thing. (insert Martha voice)
June 28th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
#6
I worked for GE 15 years (non union) and mostly lived on loans. Then I was let go and ended up working in a Union(18 years). I’m lower middle class, but I’m comfortable and my bills are payed on time now. I drive an eleven year old truck and am ready for a new Volt. Don’t ever bash unions it’s the buffer between the greed of the rich and the working person. It’s also one of the reasons I will buy a Volt, union members need to support (buy) each others work. As soon as I can purchase a Volt I will. By the way I don’t shop walmart because they are nonunion and give their execs very good pay and insurance while the low paid are just now being offered some kind of low cost emergency care.
#14
I agree, and our government should be helping our auto industry like the asians support theirs. But with the retard(greed of the rich) in charge it won’t happen this year.
I’m going to fight back the only way I can while awaiting the Volt and drive as little as possible for the next two to three years, probably skip vacations also. Might save enough to pay cash for a Volt. Nah!
June 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
#61 Statik & #62 fred:
Thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking comments.
fred: I agree. If we have to drive our working people to the lowest common denominator of the world to survive in the “global economy”, what right do we have to expect to survive as a nation?
I wonder if we will still be blogging away here a year from today and, if so, what will have happened in the meanwhile. It’s a very sobering thought.
June 28th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Statik #61
Boy that sure looks like the same Cramer who said not long ago that “biodiesel” is the future of the automobile. The resemblance is uncanny!
I agree with those who believe that GM should not waste any money on full hybrids. Not only are they expensive to build, they’re dead end technology and there is also the problem of Toyota and Honda’s advanced generations.
GM does need something to sell and it needs to work on E85-ing its lineup. They could start with the Cobalt. Much less expensive and it could pay off short term in a way that hybrids can’t. This is because if you live in the midwest and other E-85 territory you will pay less for fuel and can avoid opec. These are huge selling points in the current market. They can also start selling these vehicles in the fringes and help to bleed E-85 availability outward.
June 28th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
because of Ford’s attitude of “lets just keep using gasoline and not bother with plug-ins” when the American public clearly is clamoring for it, I won’t be buying a Ford in my lifetime. Only owned two (Thunderbird and Cougar) and will be buying a Volt and it’s offspring till I die….boo to Ford.
June 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
It was interesting to hear Gary B. Smith on Fox’s Bulls and Bears call congresses’ do nothing attitude toward the price of gas “the greatest thing that’s happened”. He didn’t mention the Volt by name but said that as a result GM is coming out with an electric vehicle. I was also impressed that he didn’t mistakenly call it a “hybrid”.
June 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
#22 Statik
Once again I find myself agreeing with you. You laid it out perfectly. I too wish GM had spent some money on hybridizing their small car line-up. I love the Volt concept and I hope for its success, but GM needs more hybrids to help get them to the Volt launch time line.
I still intend to purchase a Volt and will look seriously at the Ford hybrid, if it is indeed a good vehicle.
June 28th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
>FORD<
You must be kidding. These guys forgot how to make cars a long, long time ago. Talk about rental fleet designs. Butt ugly vehicles. If it were not for the lack of inspiration in their design they would have none at all.
June 28th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Ford GT Excluded. how can a company that can produce such an amazing car….produce such equally boring machines in the complete remainder of their portfolio. These guys were losing the equal of a mustang per minute. Keep sitting and waiting men at Ford…. Pathetically sad.
June 28th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
The mustang electric plug in! Would’nt be able to make enough. Maybe GM and ford should combine talents. No real back seat in the mustang anyway so fill it with batteries.
June 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
My neighbor showed me the web site listed below, of a gadget that can increase fuel economy by 50 to 300%. He believes this to be true and plans to buy the gadget. I know it is just a scam, but I can not convince him that this is just a scam. He says GM is wasting billions by building the Volt.
http://www.preignitioncc.com/woj/
June 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
#67 N riley
“#22 Statik. Once again I find myself agreeing with you.”
I know right? What is going on? We are like drinking buddies now or something.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Joe
As long as he’s at it, have your neighbor look at the Tornado as well. There is no shortage of companies willing to pull a “Nigeria” on you.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Joe, #71, Please wish your neighbor good luck with that. You did your duty by telling him it is a scam. That is all you can do.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
As we drift towards the realisation that the hybrids are orphans and Chapter 11 is on the horizon perhaps it is time to dust off the production schedule for the Volt and start again.
Production starts mid 2010 and proceeds without limits?
June 28th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Bruce,
I was always one who thought that GM would need to get it near perfect before they release it, but now I’m not so sure. There were problems with the original Priuses when they came out and few talk about that now. The sooner the better and it will boost the confidence of lenders.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Whatever Ford is smoking can’t be legal.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
#64
I agree with those who believe that GM should not waste any money on full hybrids…they’re dead end technology
Hmmm…full hybrids have had “a uphill open road” since 1997 (2000 in the US) for one major competitor. Of course, the progressive success of that competitor’s full hybrid design could decrease for various reasons.
For instance, a better patented design that is difficult to copy without patent infringement could hit the market. Easier done is a car that sticks out and makes a statement. The Prius is only available as a hybrid…one of the major reasons that people buy it. The Honda Insight is the only other vehicle that has this distinction, but it was a 2 seater and a mild hybrid.
It took years for the Prius to gain this success…even in spite in some of Toyota’s missteps. One of the reasons that car industry is limited to a few companies is their committment and infrastructure to a design. There is talk the Prius may become a brand instead of just one model. Toyota has shown a commitment to their hybrid design for 10+ years while GM has spent most of those years stating that hybrids are a “stop gap technology”…not very good managment of the press and more importnalty their hybrid business.
I believe GM has understood the importance of building a “hybrid only” vehicle…hence the VOLT. Even though they have admitted it, GM did not want to look like a bunch of “Johnny come latelys” in the hydrid passenger vehicle market. Do not get me wrong here…GM makes some terrific vehicels. But until GM can produce hybrids in volume that sale…they still look like a bunch of “Johnny come latelys” in the hydrid passenger vehicle market that may or may not be commited to years of support for their design(s).
I have no answers for GM…except they need to concentrate on their core business…vehicles. Toyota is ahead in significant areas. Dealer acceptance of hybrids and training (sales and repair techs), a satsified hybrid customer base, and established hybrid component suppliers.
Delaer acceptance - try getting outstanding service on very limited volume vehicle. I’ve had a couple of Corvettes…I took one of them to a Chevy dealer that sold very few a year. During a service visit, the service manager asked me how to turn off a service indicator light. They did not know me at all.
Satsified hybrid customer base - brand loyality is a powerful thing…especially if the customer is satsified and their brand sells a comparable vehicle (still 2+ years.before the VOLT is ready).
Established hybrid component suppliers - if you have limited experts that have extensive knowledge of your vehicle and a suppliers product, it could get bumpy.
While it is difficult for a company to choose a hybrid design(s), it is difficult for a car buyer also. I would think that most car buyers would choose a hybrid design that a company will produce in significant volume.The VOLT will have no long term reliablity data.. So buyers that put reliabilty at the top of their list will need to trust GM and dealers will support the VOLT for years to come.
Find someone that bought a new Prius in 2000 and ask about their dealer’s support of the vehicle. The point is…GM needs to repeatedly reinforce their committment to E-REV and their other hybrid desgins.
And not just words…I would curious to hear from some of the current owners of GM hybrids about their support from the dealers. Especially if they have had their vehicle serviced at a delaer that did not sell them the vehicle.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
#57 DonC - Poulsen Hybrid motor site - http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/index.html
is not very informative, and on current vehicles the ICE will have to run to keep AC/Heat, Power steering and brakes operational, very interesting info though, that 14HP is all it takes to cruise.
At the other end of the performance spectrum is what PML did to a Cooper Mini - http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/pml_flightlink_electric_mini_cooper_car_news
As Statik mentioned earlier, a REAL EV is a very simple thing.
If and when the low current draw electric PS, PB, Heat Pumps and such that will be used on REAL EVs like the Volt become commodity items, and gas is upwards of 8 to 10 dollars a gallon, there will probably be a lot of conversions, but the best will start with removing the hunk of iron under the hood.
#64 Grizzly - Thank you, everybody keeps wanting to know what to do between now and full production of the Volt. E85 is what we can do. It’s more available than most people think. Google E85 and you’ll get several sites that will point you to pumps in your area. I’m in North Texas where nobody knows what it is (E-Whaaaaaat???). There is a pump within a mile of my house and 5 within 10 miles.
OK, I’ll get off my soapbox. Best wishes, all
Now, WHERE’S MY VOLT???