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Ford Calls the Chevy Volt a Hail Mary Play

June 28th, 2008 | Posted in: Competitors, Financial, Public Opinion

Ted Miller is Ford’s senior manager of energy storage. He outlined to Bloomberg News Ford’s cautious approach to plug-in vehicles.

Balking at the idea of what GM has done with the Volt he said "if there’s going to be a true plug-in hybrid market, we’re going to be there. It’s just that that’s a huge commitment to actually go to production.”

Miller acknowledged that such a major move is costly, stating "If we’re spending significant resources on plug-in hybrids, it means we don’t have a bucket of money”, and instead notes that Ford would rather take a sit back and watch strategy perhaps adopting the technology if cars like the Volt catch on.

Using the term normally applied to a desperate last ditch football play, Miller called an aggressive approach to plug-ins a "Hail Mary", specifically saying "the Hail Mary means that we’re probably going to have to neglect a lot of other things."

With oil skyrocketing and the economy spiraling this just may be the last play.

Source (Bloomberg )

Posted by: Lyle

104 Responses to “Ford Calls the Chevy Volt a Hail Mary Play”

jsgibbs01 Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:38 am

Looking at GM’s stock price and capital reserves it sure looks like it might be the last play… But hey, (almost) none of the pundits were favoring the NY Giants in the last Superbowl either!

Let’s just hope it doesn’t come down to the Volt saving the company (or a Federal bailout… nobody wins in that case).

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Voltik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:41 am

Ok Ford sit in the corner and wait and watch…. sounds like big oil money talking to me.!!! Thank You GM for working to develop this new technology not just the USA but the world needs the VOLT..

Voltik

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Synergy McFly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:48 am

There’s really nothing new about automotive batteries, generators or electric motors; considering the tech has been around for decades.

The only “Hail Mary/moon shot” challenge (risk) I see is getting battery costs under control.

If GM can produce an EFlex vehicle for under $25k, they’ll have the best selling vehicle in the world.

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Dave G Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:52 am

When other car manufacturers start saying negative things about the Volt to the press, then you know GM is on the right course. It means the other car manufacturers are scared.

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omegaman66 Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:53 am

Synergy McFly you are exactly right. And I might add or tweek what you said by saying that the safer bet is that battery tech (or energy storage) will meet the requirements of plugin cars rather than betting against li-ion and others.

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kent beuchert Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:56 am

Does anyone care what Ford is going to do? They and Chrysler have been sent into near bankruptcy by the UAW. As long as they are captured by those extortionists they can’t do anything.

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Microbatman Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:58 am

T O U C H D O W N

S C O R E

GM Wins. History made.

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omegaman66 Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:58 am

Amazing how people with a whole lot more money and expertese in their field than I just can’t see the correct path ahead of them. I just can’t get over how blind Ford can be on this subject.

What is it that they are thinking??? Is it all just a lie? Do they really know the correct path but say it isn’t clear to them yet just because they don’t yet have plugin hybrids anywhere close to being mass produced?

If I were forced to I would bet that Ford sees the handwritting on the wall but doesn’t want to say that for finacial reasons. But since I am not forced to bet it is more fun to bash companies when they make statements like this that I know are just flat out wrong.

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Van Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:01 am

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Ford has supplied several Plug-in SUV’s
to SCE for fleet testing. The 2009 Ford hybrid is much improved, now able to go 40 MPH in EV mode. And Ford is working on an improved, read lithium battery.

So instead of acknowledging Ford dropped behind GM due to the economic necessity of its recent downsizing in the Plug-in Hybrid race, we get a recycled observation – GM already referred to the Volt project as a hail mary.

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MarkinWI Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:10 am

Kent@#6, Good stretch to bring union-bashing into the conversation. Unfortunately, Chrysler has the lowest % of union labor of the big three. Unfortunately, decision-making by companies does not bear out your comment either. When Toyota chose a location for its new RAV-4 plant in 2005, they passed on anti-union Alabama in favor of union-friendly Ontario province Canada. Give the hate a rest.

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nasaman Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:22 am

Ford decided to license Toyota’s hybrid design, which makes them seem to have a “foot in the plug-in door” to most of the buying public. Now that the opposing team (GM) has made a “hail mary” play, and is DEEP in their territory near the goal line, the smartest thing they can do is to hope GM loses the ball before they can make the winning goal, while they quietly plan other plays. That’s what the USSR did when the US got to the moon first. Taking an extended time out to re-assess your strategy makes sense when the other team is winning (or is way ahead). As we sometimes say it, “why fight a losing battle?” Maybe Ford will ultimately license the E-REV design from GM!

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NorthernPiker Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:24 am

Yes, GM may be doing too little, too late, but what does that say about Ford and it’s apparent approach – doing much less, much later.

I am surprised that automakers are seemingly still in denial that their products are dependent on a single increasing costly and ultimately unaffordable commodity.

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Dinosaurus Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:25 am

Ford is playing it safe by bringing over the Euro Fiesta and Focus. Both will sell very well.

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Donan Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:25 am

What Ford should be doing is joining up with GM. Together they could build the Volt and maybe a near twin underpinnings in a Fusion with more money and manpower to get it successfully on the road quicker. Get Chrysler to join it to. The big three should be competing over this. They should join forces and dominate the electric car future.

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Canuk Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:28 am

MarkinWI @ 10 — I agree. Here in Oshawa, Ontario, GM is closing their #1 quality truck plant next year, which is a CAW plant. The feeling around here is the closing has little to do with the union, but rather, the political climate in the US. It would seem that poor choice of the product portfoilio from the uppers at GM has led the company into the mess they’re in; not the “extortionist” unions as stated in post #6.

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VaBchJim Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am

I have always been a Ford owner. I have never owed a GM product. I currently have two Fords in the driveway. My son is currently driving a Ford. I had always believed in their product. This “sit back and watch strategy” is a disaster for Ford. Other than the plug-in Escape I am not aware of any of Fords plans for plug-ins. The Volt will be my first GM car. So, Ford if you are reading this, take this bit of advice. Get off the pot and put your engineers to work building something that can match the Volt. If you dont the only place Ford will be able to sit and watch from is their porch. You will loose more market share and you will have no one to compete with except Kia. Get off your a$$!

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Voltman Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am

Interesting comments from Ford.

I can see why Ford needs to wait and see. They lose an extraordinary amount of money on Hybrid Escapes. Ford is at the mercy of AW, the transaxle supplier (the transaxle houses the motor and generator–key hybrid components). AW supplies transaxles to Toyota for the Prius and other their hybrid vehicles. AW is controlled by Toyota. So, Ford has very little control over the cost of the transaxle and in fact is somewhat at the mercy of their rival, Toyota.

The high cost of the Hybrid Escape has left a bad taste in Ford’s mouth. So, they’ve pulled back from hybrids and announced they are going to use more conventional means to meet CAFE and emissions standards (think, small displacement engines with turbos and direct injection).

At one point, Ford was impressively the third large OEM with a hybrid to market (behind Toyota and Honda). They were the American car company leader in hybrid technology. However, sustaining the high expense of the Hybrid Escape in this very weak automotive market has force Ford to take a wait and see approach to anything hybrid including plug-ins.

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CDAVIS Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am

____________________________________________________
FORD = Mediocrity

GM = Lutz & Team VOLT

“Lutz” will become a word term after the successful launch of the GM VOLT. I can hear it now at a future Ford EV strategy meeting: “We need to Lutz that project.”
____________________________________________________

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GM Volt Fan Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am

If Ford sits back and waits until 2014 to start mass producing hybrids like the Volt, they’ll probably regret it. The train will have already left the station and they’d be in catchup mode while GM is working on even more technologically advanced hybrids every year. GM will be working on Volt 3.0 in 2014 while Ford is still making their first models. I think GM and the rest of the auto industry will probably start to resemble big computer OEMs like Dell and Hewlett Packard in the next 10 years. Computer companies have to move quickly or they get left in the dust.

When ex-Intel CEO Andy Grove says we are at a “strategic inflection point” I tend to sit up and take notice. He knows first hand what tipping points are like.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-grove-plug-ins,0,1749993.story

Grove was one of the original computer geniuses who was right in the middle of the action when the semiconductor industry took off back in the 60s. Microprocessors have come a long way from those early handheld calculator models to todays 45nm wonder chips. Soon Intel will be manufacturing 32nm processors. Then it’s on to 22nm and 15nm I hear. We’re talking transistors with gates only a few atoms wide. It is truly amazing that they can do this.

http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture-silicon/45nm-core2/

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frankyB Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:55 am

Fords seems to forget the trend is already here…. but I guess they lack vision and means to get there so may as well wait and copy the winning approach.

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jeff Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:00 am

It’s hard for any company to fight against the status quo of gasoline. Ethanol should be the direction of choice for the USA. Less risk and could be easily integrated to the USA marketing system. Alas no corporate cooperation (OIL) for a common goal. Not even a compromise like say E-45. I’m amazed that oil companies haven’t merged with ethanol or created their own ethanol products. The invisible hand of economics isn’t working to well. I cringe when I see all the TV adds from oil companies telling us how they’re looking out for our interests, a blatant lie. I truly am proud of what GM is doing. BTW what is cash rich Toyota doing, I don’t consider the Prius that big of a deal, that’s why I never bought one. I THINK GM IS RIGHT ON TARGET. I hope GM buys Ford for a dollar a share!!

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Joe Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:03 am

Ford is doing the same as GM did when the Prius came out. I’m convinced the Volt will meet the specs laid out by GM and Ford will be caught behind the eight ball. At introduction, will the Volt sell with it’s high price? Yes, it will sell as fast as GM can makes their limited amount. If the price were more affordable, GM could not make enough at beginning. So, a high price at the beginning is a good strategy. Later, when the price goes down, a new car revolution will be underway. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure how successful the Volt will be. Take for example, many many DC government workers commute about 50 miles to work….living in DC is too expensive. Many time traffic on highway 95 is bumper to bumper and those fifty miles or so, can get very expensive. Highway 95 is very flat and lends itself to an electric car. Air conditioning is what worries me but I have faith GM will solve that problem. For those DC workers, the government should set an example and build and infrastructure so workers can plug in while working. I just hope our leaders can see the light. Real leaders are hard to find nowadays.

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:04 am

Rarely has this been said over the past decade, but the Ford guys are right. They aren’t sitting back at all…they have acted for today. (Albeit probably too late for them too).

This is a “Hail Mary” for GM…and they really don’t have the money to spend on this project.

I think what the Ford guy is trying to suggest, is that putting lots and lots of money (that you don’t have) into a future car that will be a limited run for a company in GM’s situation is a little irresponsible.

If GM was in a better financial situation, the Volt project would be considered extremely forward thinking, but under GM’s ‘ticking clock countdown,’ it seems as if they are dellusional of their situational health to get them there.

Ford is right to put there money behind the ” gasoline-electric version of the Fusion sedan due later this year.”

The Ford talking head (Miller) in that article says, “Spending significantly less on hybrids is probably not a good option.” Infering that GM would have been better off spending the ‘Volt’ money on ‘hybridizing (if that was a word) there small to mid size car lineup.

It’s hard to argue with that logic.

Ford is hitting the market with the ‘perfect car’ for this market and very soon, they will also be able to sell about as many of these bad boys as they can pump out…and they can pump out alot. Added cost? $4,200 (the magic 4K premium number we all look for in doing the ‘hybrid math’)

GM should have/needs badly a small ‘real’ hybrid car…10x more than they need the Volt.

However, they figured they weren’t going to make enough money on them. They thought they could make a ‘mild hybrid’ SUV, put a sticker on it, charge $10,000 more and everything would be great. I don’t blame them for spinning the wheel…it just happened to land on ‘bankrupt’

I really don’t get how people think Ford is sitting back at all, they are bringing a ‘Prius fighter’ to the market in a couple months. What is GM bringing? A new exhibit for Tomorrowland? What’s that do for their bottomline?

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Dr.Science Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:14 am

True, GM has bet the farm on the VOLT and now Ford has taken the same aproach as Honda, that of not offering a technology based product with an unproven record of sales or profits. History shows the pioneers always draw the arrows, when successfull they also reap the greater rewards. My bet here in Las Vegas is on the VOLT.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:15 am

Donan #14 Agreed. The Big 3 should join force, and nail this thing shut!

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Joe Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am

It seems like with no matter how many great vehicles GM comes out with, GM can not seem to get traction. Buyers will not buy GM unless GM comes out with something that’s revolutionary. And that is the Volt. The Volt is GM’s next 1957 Chevrolet.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am

It amazes me sometimes how far off the road the Big 3 can get, and then have to watch as they scramble uphill to catch up.

I truly believe plugins are the future and think Ford is making a huge mistake.

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GM Volt Fan Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:24 am

As far as Ford wondering about how people will be able to charge their cars up without having a garage … people will just have to make the necessary changes. If it comes down to getting a charging station installed or putting up a car shed in your back yard, I think people will do it. Apartment managers will put up charging stations in order to get people to move to their “high tech, upscale apartment complex”. Architects will be designing new homes with car charging in mind. People will actually start parking their cars IN their garage instead of using it as a storage unit.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/05/picture-edf-toyota-prius-plug-in-charging-station/

http://www.sheltersofamerica.com/productdetails.php?productid=690&id=1

It sure beats paying $7-8 a gallon like we might be doing in 2011! That’ll focus the minds of people that want to drive without paying an arm and a leg for it. Paying over $120+ for a tank of gas every week or two will bring out a LOT of innovative ways of keeping your Volt or other electric car juiced up. Humans are usually pretty adaptable creatures. Always have been … or we wouldn’t have survived the last Ice Age, etc.

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:30 am

Statik,

It is foolish for GM to try to compete with Toyota or Honda on small, high mileage / low performance vehicles. GM’s push to hybridize their SUV’s, to protect their money makers, was spot on, given their cost structure relative to Japanese automakers. Those systems are now working their way into Saturn Vue’s, a cross-over that people want. Additionally, the Vue will have a plug, so that it can drive some limited range in EV mode only, before the Prius will have a plug.

Ford is just caught flat footed, and hoping their ethanol vehicles will sell. The bad news for them is that everyone is waiting for the plug-in vehicles to appear, and not buying any interim solutions. Ford’s other “perfect car” that you salute, is in direct competition with the Civic and Prius, and can’t compete – dumb to spend money on a losing battle.

GM is on the right path, and forcing the entire industry to follow – I don’t see anyone but Ford following Toyota. Even Tesla Motors announced that they are foregoing their REEV option, as they know they can’t compete with GM.

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am

#29 Jason M Hendler

I agree with you 100% on GM’s decision to mild ‘hybridize’ their SUVs. That is something they needed to protect…unfortunately the market smoked the sector, that life I guess.

However, it is not foolish to come out with a small/mid-size hybrid. As I have said with the Prius/Volt competition. It does not have to be looked at like that. There is room for everyone here…the space is so wide open and the demand is so high, it’s ridiculous.

“The bad news for them is that everyone is waiting for the plug-in vehicles to appear, and not buying any interim solutions” This just is not accurate, people are buying any and every short term solution they can get their hands on.

Every hybrid car under 30K is selling lilke hotcakes. “Plain Janes” that are just economical are selling like crazy too. Check the year over year for GM on just run-of-the mill Aveos, Cobalts….the Vibe is GM’s monster right now, the only reason is it is ’sport-cute,’ gets the mileage and is affordable

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R.V. Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:16 am

FORD takes the field with the new Econetic line up.

What’s this?

It looks like GM is going for it.

Here’s the snap.

Bob steps back into the pocket, he’s got plenty of time, good protection. Oh! He decides to launch it, it’s the old “Hail Mary” play.

Looks like a ‘moon shot’ here for GM.

The ball is in the air. It looks long enough, the special teams receivers are in position, they jump. It’s caught!!! The crowd has gone wild here, they love this bold new concept that Gm has just rolled out in this game!

Are you kidding me! GM has just won the game, with a line up the critics said would never work.

FORD is left standing on the field stunned by GM’s performance.

This truly is a game changer by GM. Looks like it’s back to the drawing board for Fix Or Repair Daily.

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:21 am

#29 Jason M Hendler

“”Ford’s other “perfect car” that you salute, is in direct competition with the Civic and Prius, and can’t compete – dumb to spend money on a losing battle” Ford is going to sell everyone of these it can put out…the Fusion will be the best selling car in their lineup.

Are we talking about the same thing? The Ford Fusion? Ford’s best car (other than the Focus). The one that is still up 31% in April 08 when the domestic market is off 30%, and considering all that, it is also at the end of it’s life-cycle? The one that is getting the full redesign and the fancy hybrid in the fall? This IS the car people will buy if they don’t like the look of the Prius, or want to buy domestic.

GM is offering nothing…nothing at all to compete in this space, the hottest space in the market. The 2013 Volt (when their is production of value) is all well and good, but what about today?

Sorry, sometimes we disagree, and I just say, ‘ok we disagree, ‘ but on this one you are completely wrong. The Fusion is a homerun, in a year that everyone is striking out. Again, other than the Focus, this is Ford’s best hope. I don’t know if they can build enough to keep the banker from taking their house, but it’s a monster for them.

You can say Ford is a tired company, they have a bloated, aged lineup that they can’t get away from fast enough…and I will agree with you. You can say they will probably go out of business before GM, and I might agree with that too. But they do have a couple good products…this is one of them.

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ROBERT M. SPERRY Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:23 am

They said the Wright Borthers, Edison and Henry Ford were crazy, so GM is joining very good company. Sure, the Volt is a big jump, but that’s how real progress is made. Remember the turtle (Ford), you don’t get anywhere unless you stick out your neck. GM is on the right path and is going to revolutionize the industry. The hybrids, such as Prius are still basically gas guzzlers – They just guzzle less, but not that much. The world has been driving gasolene cars for over 100 years and they are always suspicious of something new. so they will be suspicious of the Volt when it is first announced publically. However, when they realize that gas prices are never going down, they will start to look at the Volt and when they begin to realize all the advantages that electric cars have, GM won’t be able to make them fast enough.

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jabroni Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:29 am

Sure, we really are interested in what a representative from the near broke and bankrupt Ford Motor company has to say!

Ford has been mismanaged into oblivion and now they will miss the boat……….AGAIN!

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:29 am

Slow edit on the grammar:

“The 2013 Volt (when their is production of value) is all well and good, but what about today”

should read”

“The 2013 Volt (when their production is of value) is all well and good, but what about to

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Nelson Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:33 am

Attitudes like Miller’s is the reason FORD stock closed at $4.98 yesterday. Guess they’re still analyzing their SIX SIGMA review of why their cars aren’t selling.

Hey FORD, how about making and selling something the public wants.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:50 am

#36 Nelson says, “Hey FORD, how about making and selling something the public wants.”

I agree. Unfortunately, the same can be said for GM as well.

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chevonly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:57 am

The Cobalt is very close to the Ford Focus as far as sales go. If GM would do a little more advertising of this great little car it could pull ahead of the Focus in sales. Does Ford have anything to compete with the Aveo ?? If and when GM starts producing more of the Malibu Hybrids that should also help the bottom line. But with the downward trend on the dollar many of us won’t be able to afford a loaf of bread let alone a Volt. If only the buggywhip manufacturers had as much money as the oil companies we could still be saying whoa nellie before we come to a stop light.

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 10:57 am

#14 Donan

“What Ford should be doing is joining up with GM. Together they could build the Volt and maybe a near twin underpinnings in a Fusion with more money and manpower to get it successfully on the road quicker. Get Chrysler to join it to. The big three should be competing over this. They should join forces and dominate the electric car future.”

#25 Rashiid,

“The Big 3 should join force, and nail this thing ”

I agree with you both 100%. The time to look at each other as enemies is in the past.

I don’t know about a car with the same underpinnings, but a unified effort in battery development/production/hybrid technologies would be a massive advantage over all three attempting to go solo.

I look at GM and Toyota’s co-operative effort over the Vibe/Matrix as a example of a successful “Frien-emies” collaboration. The big three could have a very profitable relationship in this ‘new world’

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Joy Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:11 am

“Ford would rather take a sit back and watch strategy perhaps adopting the technology if cars like the Volt catch on.”

And who says Ford hasn’t learned from the Japanese? Assuming Ford survives, they’ll copy, copy, copy the Volt technology.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:19 am

#23 Statik

Thanks for giving a different perspective. If GM gets real desperate, it could produce more Volts faster – in for a penny, in for a pound.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:24 am

#6 kent beuchert

We’re doing sports analogies today. Blaming the UAW for problems is like blaming the refs for the loss. If your team were a lot better, the refs wouldn’t matter.

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:25 am

#41 ThombDbhomb

“Thanks for giving a different perspective” Seems like that is my ‘defacto’ roll here, lol. I really don’t come into these saying to myself, I’m just going to take something the other way…I’m not trying to be Devil’s advocate.

But yeah, I really think co-operatively developing/producing somthing like the battery pack would be a no-brainer. Cost of development split 3 ways, using the best of all three’s ideas, and most importantly, net volume pushing the cost/kWh down as fast and as low as it can be. (Added bonus of not always trying to ‘undo’ and ‘one-up’ each other as well, getting all your minds together and moving forward).

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:27 am

Statik,

In two years, Toyota and Honda will have ramped up their production, and pushed Ford out of the market. At that time, GM will introduce the Volt, which will eat into Toyota and Honda’s sales.

You only have to see who the industry is following to know who is going to win. As even Toyota is now promising a Li Ion plug-in for their Prius, it is clear who will be best positioned.

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Dave99 Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:48 am

How about “Moon Shot” rather than “Hail Mary” …

For you guys talking about the Big 3 joining forces, check this out:
http://www.uscar.org/guest/index.php

and the Advanced Battery Consortium:
http://www.uscar.org/guest/view_team.php?teams_id=12

I don’t think it would be good for all three companies to work together on a whole vehicle. Rather, co-development of certain components, like the hybrid transmission by GM/Chrysler/BMW/Daimler, have shown some really positive results.

#23. Statik
Toyota is on their 3rd generation Prius. You’re suggesting that GM try to compete with this despite being years behind in development. I prefer to see GM carving out their own niche.
also … “mild hybrid SUV”? The Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade is a full-hybrid two-mode that has more capability for increased efficiency than the Toyota Prius does.

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noel park Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

You can either throw a “Hail Mary” or just stand around and wait for the clock to run out.

Having said that, I have to agree with Statik, and Rashiid at #37. If GM doesn’t have something up its sleeve to bridge over until Volt/e-flex ramps up to some real volume (2013?) they could well disappear before the “Hail Mary” is caught.

I agree that the “mild hybrid” is more of a PR exercise than a real solution. Even so, a 2010 (2009 release) Cobalt with the 1.4 turbo, rumored 6 speed automatic, and the “mild hybrid” might get into a bragging rights mpg range. I would buy one of those.

I think that it would be appropriate for Lyle to quiz his contacts in GM as to what is in the pipeline. We keep hearing about the “40 mpg Cobalt”. What is it? Is it real, or just another “40 mpg highway” spin exercise? I woluld really like to know how GM intends to keep its head above water for the next 5 years.

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noel park Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

PS: Didn’t Bob Lutz, or somebody, say that GM was going to release 14 hybrids in the next 3 years, or some such number? How about if they gave us some visibility into that? I really care what happens to GM. If they are going to have products that I want to buy, I would like to know about it, so that I can plan accordingly.

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Joe Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

If only GM and Ford had enough money today, they could eat Toyota in five years. Both GM and Ford now see the light but a little too late. I’m sure Toyota is praying that things don’t go well for the domestics. If only GM and Ford could have competed on fair grounds to begin with, they would have made better choices. The US government allowed it to happen and the results were inevitable. How could GM and Ford compete fairly with the Japanese when GM and Ford had huge legacy cost when the Japanese didn’t have any. Take away only this one unfairness and it could have made a big difference, not to mention all the other unfair practices. Only in this country can this happen because of our do nothing politicians constantly fighting among themselves.
If want to read how the Japanese got where their at today, click on the link below.

http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

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KentT Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Hey Jeff 21.

The reason the oil companies don’t promote E-xx is one, they HAVE bought ethanol companies. TO BURY THE TECHNOLOGY. Just as they have bought battery companies/technology!!!!!!!!!!!

The past eight years has just made me sick! Bush should have been impeached for misleading the American people into the Iraq war and Cheney should be in prison for colluding with the oil companies to stonewall any meaningful energy policy for our nation.

The reason gas is over $4 a gallon is the weak dollar due to the U.S. printing money to pay for the Iraq war and the oil companies are making money like the robber barons that they are thanks to politicians like Cheney that have insulated the oil industry from political action during this administration!

The Chevy Volt is a reaction to the FACT we are running out of cheap oil (not that we are running out of oil. We’re running out of CHEAP oil). The handwriting is on the wall and Lutz (if no one else) sees this.

Go GM! REVOLUTION NOW!

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OzoneLevel Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Wow! Talk about shortsighted vision, or total lack thereof. Memo to Ford and others: “We are waiting for PHEVs, EREVs or full EVs and we’re not buying anything else until we get them.” If GM follows through with the E-Flex application to large SUVs and trucks, it’s goodbye Ford and Chrysler, one or both are not going to be around in 10 years.

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jeff Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Here’s more on Andy Grove’s ideas on converting from oil to electric vehicles.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/andy-grove-offers-an-energy-solution/?hp

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jeremy Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

hi guys my 2 cents about peoples opinions to this date r as follows
the conspiracy theorist says : the volt is alien tech and will ruin our economy
the emo/goth: what i can sit idle in my garage all day and not kill myself? WTF!
the average person.. holy chit i can save THAt much on gas money.. homeland sequrity should be paying us!
the japanese tech junky says : i want one with a playstation in it!
the europeans say: cheerio what a bashing good idea we been paying for petro though the gills for years!
does it come in tea color?
the southamericans would say cool that fits into our whole self reliance scheme already .
the eskimo says theres no roads up here but id buy anyway!

the sports pro:ill buy one and pimp it out with 4 tvs and a xbox and spinning hubcaps
the teenagers:plug in like my game boy? cool!.. just gotta save my allowance..
the sugar daddy..: jesus she takes alot of my money .. ill buy her a volt so she dont cost an arm and a leg for just gas!

even the druggies and the drunkies: chit if it saves money on gas? ill buy one just to have more money for my addictions!
..the enviomentalists: we already r on the waiting list.. twice..
see everyone would buy this vehicle
just gotta market it..
well except the emo/goths
lol

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

#52 Jeremy

No clue what just happened there.

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jeremy Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

lol sorry just attempt at humor and volt has a huge demographic
swath if gm can make the car in the numbers needed its a sure fire win

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jeff Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

KentT #49
I agree with you Kent. The “oil companies are burying ethanol” and they are burying the USA’s and the world’s economy too. And Dubya, he does nothing but try to get drilling permits. TOTALLY FRICK’N UNREAL !!!!
GO VOLT !!!! GO GM !!!!

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Ed M Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

“Ford would rather take a sit back and watch strategy perhaps adopting the technology if cars like the Volt catch on”

Isn’t this the strategy that got American car makers behind Toyoto in the first place ? It’s a lot tougher to catch up than to lead. Maybe Ford was just acknowledging that they can’t keep up with world leaders anymore and that they’re just a niche player in the automotive game. I find Ford’s comments more wishful thinking than anything else. Go GM your the best we’ve got

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DonC Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

The VOLT will be a huge winner in part because the Prius paved the way. Of course one car by itself can’t be enough to save GM from financial ruin but, as someone who has never really considered a GM product, I have to say I’m impressed by the technology GM has. GM is bringing out some great products. Even if they go Chapter 11 they should be alright going forward.

#55 Kent — can’t agree more here. What kind of moron would say the problem is that we’re addicted to herion (oil) so the solution is to go find more herion (drill for more oil). What I don’t get is his approval rating. I can understand 10%, that’s white noise, but who are the remaining 15% of the idiots who think he’s doing a good job?

In the meantime, I’m curious if any others are intrigued with the Poulsen Hybrid motor. It’s such an interesting idea in that you can retrofit any vehicle and that it’s not very expensive given the expected payback. Since most of the gas is used by guzzlers, improving the mileage of these vehicles by 10-15 miles per gallon could eliminate half the oil imports. The price of these things is cheap so there isn’t a ton of margin for GM but I’d think they could come up with retrofits for their vehicles and have the dealers install them. If we just took a fraction of the 12 – 24 billion we’re pouring into the rat hole we call Iraq we could easily have GM retrofit all their cars in a few years, giving GM a financial boost so they could continue their work.

Obviously just a thought. But the poinht is that the gas problem is not that hard to solve. All we need is something more than less than zero leadership.

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Ed M Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

Rashiid Amul #37

Well at least you can’t say they’re not trying produce something that the public may want with the Volt. This may a big gamble and with big gambles comes big rewards. Cheers. Go GM

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Eric Marshall Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Ford is completely out of touch with the new reality.

I had some hopes when Ford supported the Think, Electric Ranger, and Hybrid Escape.

But sadly, by 2010 we’ll be watching Ford’s outdated vehicles sit in dealer lots and slowly fade into oblivion.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Ed M #58. So true. One must give credit where credit it due. I really do applaud GM for doing what they are doing. I just wish they had started much earlier.

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statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Cramer is out this weekend touting that it’s in GM’s best interest to go bankrupt, that it can’t raise capital with new share offerings, etc.

Very subdued video for Cramer, but interesting:

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/video/strategysession/10423626.html?cm_ven=YAHOOV&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#10423626

Written article on same subject:

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/investing/10423696.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

I’ve said, who knows how many times, that this is the way to go. Just shut it down and rebuild it. Like the Six Million dollar man, faster, stronger…and of course much smaller. Forget the nonsense about selling the most, just sell something at a profit. We can just cross our fingers that the ‘Volt project’ survives along with GM.

At least now it is finally hitting the ‘mainstream’ media that this is a viable option. Should soften the public up to it some. Probably is going to bring some more pain next week though.

…and thats a good thing. (insert Martha voice)

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fred Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

#6
I worked for GE 15 years (non union) and mostly lived on loans. Then I was let go and ended up working in a Union(18 years). I’m lower middle class, but I’m comfortable and my bills are payed on time now. I drive an eleven year old truck and am ready for a new Volt. Don’t ever bash unions it’s the buffer between the greed of the rich and the working person. It’s also one of the reasons I will buy a Volt, union members need to support (buy) each others work. As soon as I can purchase a Volt I will. By the way I don’t shop walmart because they are nonunion and give their execs very good pay and insurance while the low paid are just now being offered some kind of low cost emergency care.
#14
I agree, and our government should be helping our auto industry like the asians support theirs. But with the retard(greed of the rich) in charge it won’t happen this year.

I’m going to fight back the only way I can while awaiting the Volt and drive as little as possible for the next two to three years, probably skip vacations also. Might save enough to pay cash for a Volt. Nah!

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noel park Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

#61 Statik & #62 fred:

Thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking comments.

fred: I agree. If we have to drive our working people to the lowest common denominator of the world to survive in the “global economy”, what right do we have to expect to survive as a nation?

I wonder if we will still be blogging away here a year from today and, if so, what will have happened in the meanwhile. It’s a very sobering thought.

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Grizzly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Statik #61

Boy that sure looks like the same Cramer who said not long ago that “biodiesel” is the future of the automobile. The resemblance is uncanny!

I agree with those who believe that GM should not waste any money on full hybrids. Not only are they expensive to build, they’re dead end technology and there is also the problem of Toyota and Honda’s advanced generations.

GM does need something to sell and it needs to work on E85-ing its lineup. They could start with the Cobalt. Much less expensive and it could pay off short term in a way that hybrids can’t. This is because if you live in the midwest and other E-85 territory you will pay less for fuel and can avoid opec. These are huge selling points in the current market. They can also start selling these vehicles in the fringes and help to bleed E-85 availability outward.

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Kevin R Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

because of Ford’s attitude of “lets just keep using gasoline and not bother with plug-ins” when the American public clearly is clamoring for it, I won’t be buying a Ford in my lifetime. Only owned two (Thunderbird and Cougar) and will be buying a Volt and it’s offspring till I die….boo to Ford.

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Grizzly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

It was interesting to hear Gary B. Smith on Fox’s Bulls and Bears call congresses’ do nothing attitude toward the price of gas “the greatest thing that’s happened”. He didn’t mention the Volt by name but said that as a result GM is coming out with an electric vehicle. I was also impressed that he didn’t mistakenly call it a “hybrid”.

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N Riley Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

#22 Statik

Once again I find myself agreeing with you. You laid it out perfectly. I too wish GM had spent some money on hybridizing their small car line-up. I love the Volt concept and I hope for its success, but GM needs more hybrids to help get them to the Volt launch time line.

I still intend to purchase a Volt and will look seriously at the Ford hybrid, if it is indeed a good vehicle.

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Vincent Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

>FORD<
You must be kidding. These guys forgot how to make cars a long, long time ago. Talk about rental fleet designs. Butt ugly vehicles. If it were not for the lack of inspiration in their design they would have none at all.

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Vincent Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

Ford GT Excluded. how can a company that can produce such an amazing car….produce such equally boring machines in the complete remainder of their portfolio. These guys were losing the equal of a mustang per minute. Keep sitting and waiting men at Ford…. Pathetically sad.

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fred Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

The mustang electric plug in! Would’nt be able to make enough. Maybe GM and ford should combine talents. No real back seat in the mustang anyway so fill it with batteries.

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Joe Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

My neighbor showed me the web site listed below, of a gadget that can increase fuel economy by 50 to 300%. He believes this to be true and plans to buy the gadget. I know it is just a scam, but I can not convince him that this is just a scam. He says GM is wasting billions by building the Volt.

http://www.preignitioncc.com/woj/

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Statik Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

#67 N riley

“#22 Statik. Once again I find myself agreeing with you.”

I know right? What is going on? We are like drinking buddies now or something.

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Grizzly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Joe

As long as he’s at it, have your neighbor look at the Tornado as well. There is no shortage of companies willing to pull a “Nigeria” on you.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Joe, #71, Please wish your neighbor good luck with that. You did your duty by telling him it is a scam. That is all you can do.

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bruce g Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

As we drift towards the realisation that the hybrids are orphans and Chapter 11 is on the horizon perhaps it is time to dust off the production schedule for the Volt and start again.
Production starts mid 2010 and proceeds without limits?

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Grizzly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:09 pm

Bruce,

I was always one who thought that GM would need to get it near perfect before they release it, but now I’m not so sure. There were problems with the original Priuses when they came out and few talk about that now. The sooner the better and it will boost the confidence of lenders.

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jes Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

Whatever Ford is smoking can’t be legal.

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Jeff Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

#64
I agree with those who believe that GM should not waste any money on full hybrids…they’re dead end technology

Hmmm…full hybrids have had “a uphill open road” since 1997 (2000 in the US) for one major competitor. Of course, the progressive success of that competitor’s full hybrid design could decrease for various reasons.

For instance, a better patented design that is difficult to copy without patent infringement could hit the market. Easier done is a car that sticks out and makes a statement. The Prius is only available as a hybrid…one of the major reasons that people buy it. The Honda Insight is the only other vehicle that has this distinction, but it was a 2 seater and a mild hybrid.

It took years for the Prius to gain this success…even in spite in some of Toyota’s missteps. One of the reasons that car industry is limited to a few companies is their committment and infrastructure to a design. There is talk the Prius may become a brand instead of just one model. Toyota has shown a commitment to their hybrid design for 10+ years while GM has spent most of those years stating that hybrids are a “stop gap technology”…not very good managment of the press and more importnalty their hybrid business.

I believe GM has understood the importance of building a “hybrid only” vehicle…hence the VOLT. Even though they have admitted it, GM did not want to look like a bunch of “Johnny come latelys” in the hydrid passenger vehicle market. Do not get me wrong here…GM makes some terrific vehicels. But until GM can produce hybrids in volume that sale…they still look like a bunch of “Johnny come latelys” in the hydrid passenger vehicle market that may or may not be commited to years of support for their design(s).

I have no answers for GM…except they need to concentrate on their core business…vehicles. Toyota is ahead in significant areas. Dealer acceptance of hybrids and training (sales and repair techs), a satsified hybrid customer base, and established hybrid component suppliers.

Delaer acceptance – try getting outstanding service on very limited volume vehicle. I’ve had a couple of Corvettes…I took one of them to a Chevy dealer that sold very few a year. During a service visit, the service manager asked me how to turn off a service indicator light. They did not know me at all.

Satsified hybrid customer base – brand loyality is a powerful thing…especially if the customer is satsified and their brand sells a comparable vehicle (still 2+ years.before the VOLT is ready).

Established hybrid component suppliers – if you have limited experts that have extensive knowledge of your vehicle and a suppliers product, it could get bumpy.

While it is difficult for a company to choose a hybrid design(s), it is difficult for a car buyer also. I would think that most car buyers would choose a hybrid design that a company will produce in significant volume.The VOLT will have no long term reliablity data.. So buyers that put reliabilty at the top of their list will need to trust GM and dealers will support the VOLT for years to come.

Find someone that bought a new Prius in 2000 and ask about their dealer’s support of the vehicle. The point is…GM needs to repeatedly reinforce their committment to E-REV and their other hybrid desgins.

And not just words…I would curious to hear from some of the current owners of GM hybrids about their support from the dealers. Especially if they have had their vehicle serviced at a delaer that did not sell them the vehicle.

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ross Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

#57 DonC – Poulsen Hybrid motor site – http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/index.html
is not very informative, and on current vehicles the ICE will have to run to keep AC/Heat, Power steering and brakes operational, very interesting info though, that 14HP is all it takes to cruise.

At the other end of the performance spectrum is what PML did to a Cooper Mini – http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/pml_flightlink_electric_mini_cooper_car_news

As Statik mentioned earlier, a REAL EV is a very simple thing.

If and when the low current draw electric PS, PB, Heat Pumps and such that will be used on REAL EVs like the Volt become commodity items, and gas is upwards of 8 to 10 dollars a gallon, there will probably be a lot of conversions, but the best will start with removing the hunk of iron under the hood.

#64 Grizzly – Thank you, everybody keeps wanting to know what to do between now and full production of the Volt. E85 is what we can do. It’s more available than most people think. Google E85 and you’ll get several sites that will point you to pumps in your area. I’m in North Texas where nobody knows what it is (E-Whaaaaaat???). There is a pump within a mile of my house and 5 within 10 miles.

OK, I’ll get off my soapbox. Best wishes, all

Now, WHERE’S MY VOLT???

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kubel Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:26 pm

Ford is absolutely right.

Option A:
Dump millions into something that you don’t know for sure will work.

Option B:
Sit back, cling onto whatever money you can, and see how things play out. .

Ford should take the serial hybrid concept and do what GM isn’t doing. Make it into an SUV. I would buy a Ford Escape in serial hybrid format. It would be so much more versatile than the Volt.

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jkh2000 Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:49 pm

GM seems to be one of the only manufacturers to see the future. Ford sees SUV’s, pickups and let’s not forget the behemouth of the century the EXCURSION! The top 3 of the future will be Toyota, Honda and GM>

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Greg Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:50 pm

The Volt is the ‘57 Chevy of the 21st century. Something everyone is missing here is the huge after-market following Chevrolet has. I can see a ton of after-market tweaks offered for the Volt after it comes out that increase both its range and its top speed. Just look at the ubiquitous 350 chevy…that is what will happen to the Volt. Who knows in 2015 you might have a company making a battery pack that weighs 50% less and holds 50% more charge in 50% less time that the current Volt’s battery pack. Toyota won’t have that, Honda won’t have that! They don’t have the after-market following that Chevrolet does. To get the improved technology in the Honda and Toyota you have to throw yours away and buy a new one. That in itself will make the Volt more popular.

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NZDavid Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

Jes says Whatever Ford is smoking can’t be legal.

I agree. Hello GM, hello Toyota, Bye bye Ford.

If/when GM goes chapter 11, this site, will again be leading the way to show the bean counters why the Volt must go ahead.

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Grizzly Says:
June 28th, 2008 at 11:56 pm

The reality is that Ford is in worse shape than GM and can’t afford to develop a vehicle like the Volt. As has been mentioned Ford hasn’t exactly had smashing success with the escape and now they’re not sure what to do. I don’t really think it’s a bad idea that GM work with them or eventually license E-flex. It would be a way to share costs, besides they already share development of trannies. Maybe GM will eventually license them the technology and that’s why they’re holding off and trying to survive.

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JSOlsen Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 1:46 am

#62

So you’re a Democrat? Unions had their time, now we are paying for all that great labor at a very high wage. I’d move my business to a better location for better wages, so I can make some money. We are a capitalist country, not a socialist country. I guess you want free health care, and to get out of IRAQ too? What about Nuclear Energy, I bet you fought that also. This goes out to all those who fight against capitalism, we would not be were we are at with the oil problems if you had stopped to think about the future instead of the hype played out to us by Hollywood and their agendas. We would have been driving electric along time ago, I am all about saving the earth, and Nuclear Energy is the answer. And the minute we can start drilling again for oil the price will drop by at lest 25% per barrel.

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JSOlsen Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 2:39 am

This mini sounds great.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/pml_flightlink_electric_mini_cooper_car_news

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john1701a Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 9:26 am

>> Who knows in 2015 you might have a company making a battery
>> 50% less and holds 50% more charge in 50% less time that the current
>> Volt’s battery pack. Toyota won’t have that, Honda won’t have that!

That’s what I mean about the spreading of incorrect information here…

Toyota already has that! How can you pretend that the aftermarket plug-in option doesn’t exist?

Upgrading a FULL hybrid is no big deal. The components you need (large liquid-cooled electric motor, electric steering, electric A/C, etc.) are there at purchase time. So later, taking advantage of improved battery technology is quite realistic.

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The Grump Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 10:46 am

All this reminds me of a huge game of Texas Holdem, with a lot more cards. Honda is remaining stone-faced, but we know they have the FCX Clarity in their hand. Toyota tried to bluff, saying PHEV’s were a dead end. The bluff was blown when word of the Prius PHEV was discovered. Both Honda and Toyota bring a huge pile of reserve cash to the table.

Ford is playing a future concept Ford Edge “the world’s first drivable fuel cell hybrid electric plug-in” – 25 miles on battery only (nice, but how expensive are the fuel-cells? They use platinum – not cheap). Dodge is playing with a future (are you ready for this? *falls over laughing) “Hemi Hybrid” in their hand, and Dodge is hoping no one sees them sweat. Both don’t have a lot of cash left, and they’re betting conservatively.

We know GM hold the Volt card. It’s the cards GM hasn’t shown us that worry me. As Statik says, they don’t have a lot of cash. However, they’re raising the stakes each day they pour money into the Volt program. Makes me wonder, why are they playing the game this way – heading into bankruptcy at breakneck speed on purpose? Reorganization would (hopefully) remove 2 huge debts they owe – GM retiree’s costs and GM current costs due to unwise UAW agreements. Thankfully, I never had to learn Bankruptcy law, so I’m not sure if bankruptcy would really help GM.

If it did help GM, “General Motors” would cease to exist as a corporation, and all agreements and contractual obligations made by GM would also cease to exist. All assets could be sold to the new GM-USA corporation (or whatever they name it), and they start fresh – without any crushing debt dragging them down.

One of many possibilities. Should be interesting to watch the game play out.

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Paul-R Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Joe,

THANK YOU very much for sharing this online article about Japanese protectionism:

http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

It’s not only eye-opening, but more than a little scary (unless you’re Japanese).

THIS SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL!

Almost makes me embarrassed to admit I just bought a Mazda, even though I love the car.

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Ignatius Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

So I guess Ford will be sitting around with its big-ass trucks and getting maybe a few hundred sales a year.

And then they’ll be wondering why they didn’t get into the high MPG game earlier.

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George K Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

“if there’s going to be a true plug-in hybrid market, we’re going to be there. It’s just that that’s a huge commitment to actually go to production”

It’s sad that Ford is so missing the boat. Here we are in June of ‘08, and they still don’t know if there is a market for PHEV’s. Wow! How many do we have on Lyle’s sign-up list? Over 30.000! And, we’re still 2 years away from production!

But, it’s not just those 10’s of thousands, plus the hundred’s who showed up at Volt Nation, for the prospect of talking with a member of the Volt teem. It’s the enthusiasm, that we all feel for this car.

Shame on you, Ford! I read, several months ago about the Escape hybrid PHEV. One of the incharges said that the converted car is working well, and they should be able to have them in the showrooms within 5 years!

I remember thinking at the time, the Volt isn’t even a working model, yet will be out in 1/2 the time. Besides, once you convert an Escape hybrid to a working PHEV, how much more do you have to do? to fill up 5 years? It obviously doesn’t have upper level management behind it as the Volt program does. Thank you Mr. Lutz and Co..

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Erik C. Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

Hey FORD… here comes the hailmary…. Touchdown Volt.

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jeremy wilson Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 9:42 pm

GM does need something to sell and it DOES NOT needs to work on E85-ing its lineup That e85 crap is and will starve us all as even the farmers are plagued with flooded and ruined crops and alot of other farmers started growing the hybrid ethanol corn for profit only and quit growing edible food corns solely based on profit margins. All this crap means high food prices, E85 IS A FAILURE. GM and Ford will lose its ass on anything relayed to E85. E85 is not the way!!!!!!

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JBFALASKA Says:
June 29th, 2008 at 11:51 pm

Perhaps nothing more than public posturing. Living here in Denver, I’ve seen Ford’s plug-in escape on the Interstate (covered with logos to make sure it couldn’t b missed). Nice looking vehicle to boot. I’ve also seen the Prius full plug-in. These compaies are on board. Why? You can’t drill forever – thank goodness. The world is running out at 100,000,000 barrlels burned per day.

My worry – the Arabians have enough money to buy all of GM tomorrow morning. At only $10 billion, actually less, in capital cost to buy the stock, they could buy GM and bury the Volt. Good bye alternatives, hello oil addiction 4ever.

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Chris S. Says:
June 30th, 2008 at 8:21 am

When will Ford learn. Both GM and Ford missed out on the conventional hybrid market, while Toyota has been making huge strides with its Prius. I give kudos to GM for taking a huge risk that I ultimately think will pay off. They see the long term need for ending our oil addiction and improving the environment. Ford however is still stuck with that mindset that it had when gas electric hybrids were initially under development. I think this will end up being a huge mistake for Ford, and it will take years for them to catch up in terms of technology and mass production.

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dagwood55 Says:
June 30th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Ford is right, the Volt is a Hail Mary play. And, given the miniscule volumes planned for 2011 and 2012 it is not a “game changer” in the way that GM needs a “game changer,” that would be a “revenue and profit” game changer.

Ford’s plan takes into account some grim realities… Toyota has a big lead in hybrids and will not lightly give that up. Ford doesn’t have a ton of money to waste. The Volt program is fraught with risks.

Ford’s plan also takes into account some market fundamentals… RE-EVs will not make up the bulk of the market in 2011 and probably not for a few years down the road; there will be plenty of money in conventional drivetrains.

Ford’s plan also takes into account some advantages that Ford has; they do have some superior small and mid-size cars both domestically and overseas. The overseas vehicles can be adapted, relatively inexpensively and quickly, to US needs and there’s some polishing and enhancement of their US fleet that will probably boost sales. Ford’s Fusion launch and Escape history look good for an American manufacturer. Among industry observers, if you asked which domestic has demonstrated that they can get into the quality game, I think people are most likely to say, “Ford.” And, in NA, there is a sizeable fraction of people who will no longer buy a car from Detroit but there’s a much larger fraction of people who won’t buy a car from the Asians. This disparity allows domestic cars to deliver a little less for a little more and get away with it.

Ford’s plan is a good match to these realities. Ford hopes to see bottom line improvements from their plan’s fundamentals in a year or two (maybe less) and Ford probably also hopes to survive long enough get a boost from Chrysler’s meltdown.

Ford has a toehold in hybrids. They can keep development up in that at a low level and make a bigger play, later on, when they have more resources.

I think there’s a real chance that the Volt will be one of the things that sinks GM. It’s nothing but expense, for a company that’s already losing money and cash, through, at best, 2013. Shifting resources toward product improvement that will help them in this decade and delaying the Volt would have been a smarter play.

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DonC Says:
June 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

There isn’t anything wrong with Ford bringing in smaller cars from other markets. That’s smart.

Then again what else can they do? Ford knows the world of cars is changing fast and it has admitted it has been caught flat footed. In the old world a change of .5% a year in the vehicle mix was major. Now they’re dealing with a 4% change in a couple of months.

Moving on the VOLT is a great idea. GM will sell all they make and it will give the brand a halo effect it hasn’t had in years. Ford is just scrambling. Do you think they wish they hadn’t sold Think now?

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Bruce Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 9:22 am

Recyclable energy sources, such as batteries are the key to any future portable energy. The volt certainly looks good on paper, but what about the cost? Will the average American household be able to afford the suspected $30,000.00+ price tag? Ford has been burnt by their hybrid product line and has exhausted some substantial resources investing in hybrids. However, dependence upon Toyota for the battery and other components was a huge mistake. The Volt is a great concept and hopefully it will be a success story, but it will still be manufactured by overpaid unionized workers who must wake up to the fact that unions are just like fossil fuels, a thing of the past that drive the price of cars to ridiculous prices and breed complacency.

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Rogelio Cisneros Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 am

We are looking at the future of cars ,they will all be electric in about 20 years no more oil. Once the volt comes out and has record sales they will all jump in the ban wagon.Its happend before.It just needs 2 magnet generators that does not use any fuel and you got a car that will run for a long time with out any stops to refuel.Im allready working on the generators for the Volts.And im working on a Suburban with electric motors on the wheels.The japan made electric wheel motor is great will work great on a Suburban , 4 motors shoud give abot 300 HP.

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Don Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:41 pm

GM has a winner here because the body styling is superior and at 30-35K price point they could own the market. The piece parts are there for US technology to lead in this market. If oil speculators would just invest in solar PPA’s and Walmart, malls and larger businesses would allow companies like Envision Solar to install parking lots of solar “trees” as recharging stations to eliminate peoples concerns over battery trip life, The “Volt” could own the market! Current solar technology doest have enough power to “rapid charge” at these trees but it does create the “station” which could be supplemented by the grid to wihch it would be attached. Put the recharging stations where we PARK. And oh BTW our cars are protected from the sun! Covered parking isn’t that usually a premium? Take a look at a company called the “Better Place” he’s getting investors to invest in recharging stations whwere we’d need to stop and refuel or switch batteries. Why not refule when you’re stopped?
Why doesn’t GM team with Walmart for starters, because of the large number of stores and a large firm offering PPA agreements to fill every Walmart parking lot full of solar trees/recharging stations. BTW, the investment in solar in their lots is a good investment even if the recharging station deosn’t happen, zero risk!Or the PPA offers to install a solar tree in every parking lot of every person’s work who buts a Volt? What about a single tree for the home of the owner. If they have a garage it could be their patio, carport, etc… GM could reinvent themselves if GMAC would step up and be the PPA. Can you imagine the turnaround of this company if they sold the car and got the recharge fuel costs also? Make the Volt reliable! It has the style. Toyota Camry has proven reliability comes first to consumers then style. What if GM had them both! Wish I wasn’t an IT peddler and had the funds to pull all of this great American technology together. It could be a whole new era of independence from oil while creating new jobs in manufacturing, construction and the best benefit saving the earth of all the carbon emissions. Get off your butt GM!

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Ken Says:
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:32 pm

I think that Ted Miller at Ford might be right. Today (07/02/2008) GM’s stock just went below $10.00, levels not seen since 1954.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/080702markets.aspx

This reminds me about the automaker (Studebaker) who developed the Avanti, a revolutionry vehicle at the time, in the hopes of saving the company. Bottom line: Studebaker failed but managed to produce a beautifully designed car.

See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_NHmppIPLg

Let’s hope GM succeeds with the Volt–I think GM is on the right tract, but Ford knows that American car makers are on a “wing and a prayer”

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john meschede Says:
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 pm

It does appear that oil is on its way out. Remember 25 years ago how rare front wheel drive cars were? Now most cars on the road are front wheel drive, The same will probably happen with electrics. There will still be a few gasoline powered cars in 20 years, but they will be expensive oddities driven by grandpa types who don’t trust electric technology.As far as who makes electrics, I sincerely hope it will be GM. Hopefully, the Japanese won’t take over GM and other US car manufacturers. But, Politics will play the decisive role in that. November may be the start of a new future for America and the Volt.

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1AngryCustomer Says:
July 4th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

I am just really hoping that this car isn’t going to cost consumers 35-40K just to buy. I’m hoping that GM will be able to provide it to consumers that are a little more financially modest. I would love to see everyone own a hybrid or electric car that will leave big oil execs crying in their beer. The Chevy Volt would dramatically change my budget in gas that it would save. It’s my “hail mary” so to speak, and if I need to start saving now to buy one in 2012 I would like to know about it. I wish Green Technology was more available to everyone.
I also see SA finally deciding to produce more crude as the act of a drug dealer just trying to keep people interested.
No matter what happens, even if oil does go down substantially, I’m hoping that people are fed up enough that everyone will demand new technology and energy resources. I don’t think we can put all of our eggs in one basket so to speak.

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Duane Hamblin Says:
July 6th, 2008 at 1:11 am

Those who have been watching Ultra Capacitor developements will see that if the Zenn- EEStor project works out, all GM will need to do is throw out the battery, drop in the UC storrage unit and and they will have an 80 MPH, 250 mile range EV that can recharge in as little as 5 minutes. Ford better be ready for that.
referance ultracapacitors.org

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Ford Calls the Chevy Volt a Hail Mary Play

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