Jun 27

EEStor About to Release Public Data on its Energy Storage Units (EESUs)

 

EEStor is the Texas company that has been secretly working on a breakthrough energy storage technology that is a type of ultracapacitor. The technology is reportedly able to store large quantities of energy in a package markedly smaller, lighter, and less expensive than lithium-ion batteries.

The company has formed an exclusive agreement with ZENN Motor Cars of Canada to begin production of electric cars using their technology. They also have a contract with Lockheed-Martin.

Few insiders have seen EEStor’s facility but those who have, and with whom I have spoken, came away impressed. Despite these grand claims and remarkable potential, the company has yet to demonstrate a working unit. When last I spoke with ZENN CEO Ian Clifford he told me functional production storage units were to be delivered later this year, and he advised me a third-party has been verifying EEStor is achieving their technological milestones.

A new report indicates that the third party testing data would be released within the next several weeks.

If the breakthrough is real, quite possibly lithium-ion batteries will have a strong competitor.

Clifford hopes if this all works out his company would really be interested in building ZENNergy Drive Systems, rather than cars, which could be used to power any 4 -wheel vehicle. The carmaking could be left to the large automakers, in fact there has even been contact at some level with GM.

I checked in with Mr. Clifford regarding this new report on the timing of the public release of EEStor’s testing. Whereas he couldn’t be specific, he confirmed the release is indeed "imminent."

It looks like truth or dare time is coming very soon.

Source (Financial Post )

This entry was posted on Friday, June 27th, 2008 at 6:27 am and is filed under Battery, Competitors, Research. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 126


  1. 1
    Schmeltz

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (6:42 am)

    I soooo hope this isn’t a sham!


  2. 2
    RB

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (6:47 am)

    Real soon now.
    How many times have I heard this phrase before in one variation or another.


  3. 3
    Jim I

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (6:52 am)

    RB #2: Exactly!

    If this is such a “breakthrough product”, show it to the world!


  4. 4
    Rashiid Amul

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (6:52 am)

    I am REALLY looking forward to reading more about EEStor, but I’m not holding my breath.

    But I absolutely agree with Schmeltz #1, I hope it is not a sham too.


  5. 5
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (6:53 am)

    #2 RB

    “How many times have I heard this phrase before in one variation or another.”

    7?

    Slow news day I guess.
    Good day to cut the dividend? I hope so. Necessary evil.


  6. 6
    Morgan

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:07 am)

    5 Statik:

    Nope, that is better for next Wednesday or Thursday in the early afternoon say around 2:00 or 3:00 PM EDT


  7. 7
    Murray

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:11 am)

    Agree w/ you Morgan….that cut will happen late Thursday as everyone is leaving for thier holiday weekend.


  8. 8
    Jerry

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:12 am)

    I had read some time ago that the advantage of “ultra” capacitors, in theory, was their ability to release energy faster than a batttery. Thus, the problem of tepid acceleration between 30-70 mph often found with electric motors could be solved. Some have speculated that the electric car of the future (which is now!) would utilize both li-on batteries and an ultracapacitor for maximum effciency. Is it too late for GM to alter its design for the Volt (and still meet its release date)?


  9. 9
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:16 am)

    #6 Morgan

    “Nope, that is better for next Wednesday or Thursday in the early afternoon say around 2:00 or 3:00 PM EDT”

    Thats dirty. I like it, lol.

    They have until mid August actually to make that decision if they are going to do it this quarter.


  10. 10
    Murray

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:16 am)

    …ahh shucks, got caught up in the comments again….commenting on something other than the topic of the article.

    I wonder if this EESU does become something viable, as I’m sure we would all hope…would McCain have to hit up his wife for the $300mil ‘reward’? Oh thats right he would be using taxpayer money for that…which I certainly have no problem with…I actaully think it should be way more money/incentive.


  11. 11
    String Theory McFly

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:22 am)

    I’ll believe it when I see it.

    It’s almost impossible to deliver on the impossible…


  12. 12
    Schmeltz

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:22 am)

    Jerry,
    I would speculate that, IF ultracapacitors are secretly available now, and that’s a really honkin big “IF”, that they would not appear in actual electric cars for another few years. Therefore, Volt gen. 2, or possibly even 3. I would be very, very happy to be proven wrong though!


  13. 13
    John

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:23 am)

    This is a huge disappointment.
    Eestor should have partnered with a proper company like GM, instead of playing hanky-panky with a small purveyor of golf-cart like buggies that no-one will want.
    I wish never to hear of “ZENN” or that ridiculous “ZENNergy drive” ever again.


  14. 14
    Schmeltz

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:25 am)

    I was the first poster today. I feel important now. 🙂


  15. 15
    Cire

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:26 am)

    When i saw the post title I thought it said “EEStor released public data” and I got all excited. Personaly I dont know what to think, I dont know much about ultra-capacitors. Though one thing is that it wouldnt charge much faster then our Li-Ion’s at home, because we can only get so much out of the wall socket.


  16. 16
    Van

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:28 am)

    The inability to be certain EESTor is vaporware is hindering building production facilities for Lithium Ion batteries, because if the story is true, then the batteries become obsolete. If we were really at war, we would get a warrant and go in there with experts and determine the validity of the claim. If true, we would put the best and the brightest on it (like the Manhattan Project). But we are leaderless as the years roll by.


  17. 17
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:30 am)

    #10 Murray

    Yes we did. Although I’m not sure this topic is really to ‘near and dear’ to our hearts., it is interesting…but we have chewed the fat over it in the past.

    I think the last article with the Zenn guy basically said the same thing. EEStor has a “great product, we are awesome…no you can see it, but you will…soon, and then you will be driving around with one almost immediately” Actually this article is only based off the Zenn guy again.

    Why doesn’t this Richard Weir guy, the CEO say anything?
    The phrase to me, “A new report indicates that the third party testing data would be released within the next several weeks,” says ‘nothing to see here’

    The article says, “EEStor has said it expects its technology to be commercially ready within six months” Really? From third party testing in ‘several weeks’ to distributed product in just 6 months? Amazing.

    Also from the article, waaaay down at the bottom, “If for some reason EEStor is delayed, we will continue to use the best technologies available,” Zenn founder and chief executive Ian Clifford acknowledges


  18. 18
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:43 am)

    Try finding out any information about Richard Weir (CEO of EEStor), look for a interview of substance, it’s like searching for the Holy Grail online.

    I keep getting things like, “In my 10 minutes with Mr. Weir on the phone, I couldn’t tell if his barage of polite “no comments” was a page out of Dean Kamen’s playbook or Denny Klein’s”

    -or-

    “EEStor is not making public statements at this time”

    -or-

    How about, we don’t have time to make a website, we’ll hit that up later.


  19. 19
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:44 am)

    This is all you need to know, the future of the industry lies in this link. All your questions are answered here:

    http://eestor.us/

    Truly this is the place for your commercially available replacement to ‘the battery’ in six months.


  20. 20
    Brad G

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:46 am)

    Here is insider information. Having lived in Texas all my life there are only two (2) possible outcomes to EEStor.

    1) IT IS THE BIGGEST, BEST, BREAK-THRU “TECHNOLOGY” EVER INVENTED BY MAN

    or,

    2) IT IS THE BIGGEST, BEST, BREAK-THRU “SCAM” EVER INVENTED BY MAN

    In Texas it’s all or none…

    (Now, if they have a bunch of Texas Aggie Engineers working on this project, then #1 is true.)


  21. 21
    Jerry

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:53 am)

    Van: It is possible that ultracapacitors could be used with LION batteries, and that the combination would be more efficient that ether type alone. These two devices have very different caharcteristics, and therefore, may complement each other.

    Cire: it is not how fast the capacitor could be charged, but how fast it could be discharged that could make it a breakthrough.

    Schmeltz: Only time will tel if this “ultra” capacitor is the real thing, and if GM uses it.


  22. 22
    Jason M. Hendler

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:56 am)

    Regardless, I still believe Li Ion batteries will still be a significant portion of the energy storage. It is good to have ultra / super capacitors between the batteries and the motor, so that you get rapid discharge of energy, without hurting the life of the batteries. On the other hand, a full bank of capacitors may dump all its energy too rapidly, causing fires / electrocution, so there will be a balance, for safety reasons.

    I also believe fuel cells will be the eventual range extender, as rapid recharging stations may be prohibitively expensive, compared to on-site hydrogen generation systems.


  23. 23
    nasaman

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:57 am)

    In my long career in the US space program I’ve been involved in dozens of things in electronics that “have never been done before”. A surprising number of these worked out and became ‘game changers’. As an example, high-precision, high-speed analog-to-digital (A/D) conversion developed in the 1960’s by NASA & used on the Apollo program for the first time. Today we have CDs, DVDs, digital cameras, automotive controllers & and a myriad of other technologies, none of which could exist without A/D (and D/A) conversion.

    However, the vast majority of these advancements were relatively modest improvements (2:1 up to maybe 5:1) over existing technology. Very few exceeded a 5:1 improvement in a single step.

    My recent chat with a principal investigator at Georgia Tech’s Research Labs, who is very familiar with EEStor’s patent and is undertaking very similar research using nanotechnology & highly-advanced practices in the capacitor art, have been enlightening. His team’s best efforts so far (considered highly-successful by their peers) have achieved only roughly a 2:1 increase in solid-state capacitor energy storage capability. He is very skeptical that EEStor will achieve the roughly 100:1 gains they’re claiming. So am I.

    But even a 2:1 improvement in the state-of-the-art might give EEStor enough of an edge over Maxwell & others in the ultracapacitor field to make their products viable. However, my best judgement is that EEStor capacitors will still need to be combined with large batteries in automotive applications for several years to come.* The question then becomes whether (EEStor + Li-Ion) would be more cost effective than (Maxwell + Li-Ion), or than Li-Ion batteries alone.

    * Even if EEStor capacitors store enough energy for automotive applications, their very high self-discharge rate will require a backup battery.


  24. 24
    Jeff

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:01 am)

    GM should leave no stone unturned. EEStor has something of interest, but it may be nothing more than a slightly better ultra cap.

    Hybrids in the market place has spurred innovation to generate companies like EEStor, A123, and others. Of course, unproven claims does not help anything except to cast a cloud over the industry especially if the claims prove to be false.

    Also, the ICE auto industry’s full acceptance of the electric drive vehicles helps immensely. Innovation of energy storage devces (battery, ultra caps) or media (hydrogen) is accelerating. Heck hydrogen may even become an energy source instead of a storage method.


  25. 25
    Jay

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:16 am)

    Will like my Grandfather once said, “Follow the Money!” There are technologies already out there that could have got the World off of fossil fuels twenty years ago, however the powers that be are not about to let it happen. Yes, I know, we have all heard this before and as any person who has ever worked classified programs know “There is more between Heaven and Earth then anyone will ever know”, True Statement! Now, that being said until the establishment can maintain its cash flow (Taxes and profit sharing) and everyone gets their cut, no great technology is going to see the light of day on a large scale and everyone over the age of 40 mentally knows this to be true! I would like to hope that those individuals who control our environment and again everyone over 40 knows who they are, would have the good since to understand that if “We the People” don’t get some relieve (Cost of Living), then “We the People” may get up from our desks and do something about it, even if it’s wrong. I agree, hope this isn’t smoke and mirrors!


  26. 26
    Murray

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:19 am)

    What is that a cloth sunroof on that car/thing!!?

    ….and they plan on selling these in your neck of the woods there Statik (ie. the great white north)???
    I wouldnt wanna get caught in a hail storm in that thing….I kid of course….because I wouldnt be caught anywhere driving that car/thing!

    PS… you got me on that link you provided in #19 Statik, I should’ve known after reading the post before it.
    PPS…thanks for your thoughts there nasaman #23, I was just thinking what does nasaman think of all this?


  27. 27
    MDDave

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:22 am)

    OK… So EEStor is having a third party do testing to validate their claims. Does anyone know who the third party is? If the third party is a company no one has heard of and they just produce a press release, they really haven’t added much to the credibility of the product. Something more tangible would be nice; talk is cheap.


  28. 28
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:23 am)

    #26 Murray

    “What is that a cloth sunroof on that car/thing!!? ….and they plan on selling these in your neck of the woods there Statik (ie. the great white north)???”

    Ironically, ZENN produce a couple cars a day now…but ship them to the US. They are illegal on the roads here, hehe. Go figure.


  29. 29
    Robert

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:23 am)

    Hey oil is at $140 a barrel that is so cool! Can’t wait to pay more for gas at the pump. Hopefully soon we all will be paying $10 a gallon. Wake up AMERICA!

    Does American made mean anything any more? Hopefully this product from Texas comes thru.


  30. 30
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:27 am)

    #27 MDDave

    I thought the same thing…who is the third party? Then I thought it doesn’t matter. Even if it is a legit third party, what is the review based on, what parameters has EEStor set for this review? Etc, etc.

    Credibility is in the working prototype. Let’s see it.


  31. 31
    Murray

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:36 am)

    Spalding:
    I wanna working prototype….
    No I wanna fuel cell…..
    No I wanna see the final design of the Volt….

    Judge Smails:
    YOU’LL GET NOTHING AND LIKE IT !!!


  32. 32
    MDDave

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:43 am)

    #30 Statik

    Yeah… at this point, they need an extremely credible third party to produce a very detailed report. If the “third party” ends up being ZENN or even Lockhead-Martin, that would be funny. They need a third party with credibilty that doesn’t have a long-term financial stake in the project.

    Based on EEStor’s past claims, I’m aftraid that even a demonstration before the press by EEStor would be seen as nothing more than a dog and pony show and be met with scepticism. So, a legitimate third party report is really needed.


  33. 33
    nucboy

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:45 am)

    Are these the same guys who have cloned several humans but don’t want to name them for privacy reasons?

    Just wondering.


  34. 34
    Eco

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (8:49 am)

    Now I’m ready to be less than hopeful. I’m saying it’s not going to happen. I want it to, it’s the discovery of the century if it’s true, but I’m saying, it’s not there. Reason?

    “Clifford hopes if this all works out his company would really be interested in building ZENNergy Drive Systems, rather than cars, which could be used to power any 4 -wheel vehicle. The carmaking could be left to the large automakers, in fact there has even been contact at some level with GM.”

    Why would you take a device that can probably turn a car sale into 50 percent profit margin, and hand it over to major car makers? GM is excellent at building great looking cars that pass every safety rule. What they are marginal at, is propulsion systems. So ZENN could buy an assembly warehouse, and turn GM into a very large subsidiary that supplies everything but propulsion, and sell it’s own cars in a joint venture.

    Who says you could not retrofit 10 million SUV’s currently parked in yards with “for sale” signs in them?

    Sorry, when someone says they have most important invention since the atom bomb in these economic times, and says “oh, we’ll just sell our stuff to the carmakers” then I have this prediction; they are going to convince someone to buy them out before the public ever knows if it was for real, and they won’t be heard from again.


  35. 35
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:02 am)

    I want to thank Lyle for walking the beat. Checking in with EEStor once in a while is the right thing to do. The EEStor story is one reason I am hooked on this blog. Will it pan out? Is it a sham? Stay tuned for the next development.

    The Volt offers so much hope. The promise of EEStor amplifies that hope. Accumulated wisdom says, “don’t get your hopes up.” This is fun.


  36. 36
    Dave G

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:25 am)

    It would be nice if EEStor was viable, but I don’t think it’s critically important EEStor succeed.

    The most important thing is that car buyers get used to the idea of driving most of their miles on electricity. Lithium Ion batteries and cars like the Volt should get us there. Once the idea of driving all electric goes mainstream, demand will skyrocket. Car battery research, development, and production will explode. This will undoubtedly lead to smaller, lighter, cheaper electric storage devices.

    Note that the same is true for bio-fuels. It only costs car manufacturers an extra $100 per vehicle to add E85 capability. If the government mandated that every car sold was E85 capable, then demand would quickly reach critical mass. Gas station owners would have a reason to offer E85. Soon, there would be a lot more people researching viable ways to get ethanol out of switch grass, algae, and other biomass.

    So the key is to trigger demand. Once demand becomes obvious, research and development ramps exponentially. This inevitably leads to better products and lower prices.


  37. 37
    Brad G

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:34 am)

    #33 nucboy says
    “Are these the same guys who have cloned several humans but don’t want to name them for privacy reasons?

    Just wondering.”
    =========
    Rumor has it that EEStor is using the old Supercolider tunnels for production and experimentation. They are probably cloning humans to work union free on the assembly line. Texas is a “right to work” state.


  38. 38
    greg woulf

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:37 am)

    I’ve done a lot of research on EESTor, and I’m pretty excited. I’ve discussed the technical and mathematical problems that other capacitor people have with the patent, and the concept and think that EESTor does have something.

    While we all want electric cars, even a pure stationary capacitor with EESTor’s numbers would be revolutionary. A large part of the cost of solar power is transmitting that power on the grid. If we could go off-grid, storing our own power in something like this capacitor we’d solve a lot of problems and make solar power worth it economically as well as environmentally.

    The biggest thing I think this company has going for it is Weir. He’s a legitimate scientist with experience in the Hard drive area. Coatings and magnetic shielding, which has always been the weak point for barium titenate caps.

    I don’t know that this is legitimate, I’m not investing in the company, or any sub company, but I have a good feel that they’ll get something that I’m going to want to own. Whether it can take the vibration of a vehicle or not I’m going to wait on.


  39. 39
    Jackson

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:38 am)

    Capacitors can explode.

    I work with a former tech who used to re-work circuit boards. He describes a particular case of some old boards with exploding capacitors: the internal insulator was some kind of oil which “dried out,” causing them to short-circuit and pop in little bursts of confetti. These were normal capacitors, and the “blast” was no worse than the tiniest of fireworks (but hilarity on the workbench ensued, for “the new guy”).

    Electrostatically charged surfaces repel one another, and a capacitor contains these in close proximity. A “100:1” energy density improvement implies an unprecedented amount of this force, in a very large form factor. A similar explosion on this scale would be considerably less amusing.

    My point is, safety with electric propulsion systems is not just an issue for batteries.

    And yes, send a prototype to a National laboratory and end all the speculation, EESTOR.


  40. 40
    MC

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:40 am)

    Hm, on a related note, this is an interesting story:
    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/21/mercedes-wants-to-eliminate-petroleum-from-its-lineup-by-2015/

    Apparently Mercedes plans to drop petroleum products from all of their new cars by 2015… I’m excited to see more competition in the space (as it improves my chances of getting one). 🙂


  41. 41
    Dr.Science

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:12 am)

    In theory capacitors are energy storage devices and function in circuits as accumulators and their discharge rates can be used as timers. To function the EEstor system has to control the storage charge and provide for a controled discharge. Useing junk science and math it is also theoreticaly possible for 9 women to have 1 baby in 1 month. We are all waiting to see if EEstor is the real deal.
    Note to GM: Quit screwing around with hydrogen.


  42. 42
    Eric in KC

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:22 am)

    Hey, if they can get-er done then more power to them. It’d be awesome.


  43. 43
    Rebecca

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:22 am)

    [Sorry, when someone says they have most important invention since the atom bomb in these economic times, and says “oh, we’ll just sell our stuff to the carmakers” then I have this prediction; they are going to convince someone to buy them out before the public ever knows if it was for real, and they won’t be heard from again.]

    Hmm, if I had something like that, I’d totally want to license it out (non-exclusively, though) instead of producing product myself. Not exactly what’s going on here, but definitely the track I’d take. Then again, I’m an individual, not a company.


  44. 44
    noel park

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:25 am)

    #25 Jay:

    Well, in case no one has noticed, I’m a fairly “liberal” person on most issues. Having said that, maybe the Supreme Court helped us out a little bit yesterday. Your thought has certainly crossed my mind as well.

    #31 Murray:

    No s**t, Sherlock!

    #35 ThombDbhomb:

    Well said. I’m keeping a good thought that it may actually happen. If it doesn’t, then we can all have a good laugh.

    #33 Brad G:

    Very good. Hahaha, LOL. Next stop Jay Leno!

    You’re looking good this morning guys.


  45. 45
    Murray

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:28 am)

    Amen Dr. Science….

    Hydrogen = Diversion

    I think Hydrogen R&D should focus on all transportation that does NOT include the automobile.

    I currently drive a BMW and a couple yrs back they started focusing on hydrogen…..I was at first excited…..then after becoming more informed on all of the alternatives for powering our cars….I became disappointed knowing that my next car will not be a Bimmer because my next car will be an EV.


  46. 46
    Statik

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:30 am)

    #38 Greg Woulf

    “I’ve done a lot of research on EESTor, and I’m pretty excited…The biggest thing I think this company has going for it is Weir. He’s a legitimate scientist with experience in the Hard drive area. Coatings and magnetic shielding, which has always been the weak point for barium titenate caps.”

    Interesting.

    If you could summarize some of your research, I’d be interested, I could find out virtually nothing about anything that goes on in any aspect. As for Weir himself, all I know is that he used to work for IBM on disk storage tech. I have yet to run into a lower profile CEO at a even lower profile/secretive company.

    After reading about a dozen stories and ‘interviews’ it seems like occasionally someone trips upon his phone number, calls him and he throws out a couple ‘no comments’ and then when they ask for a follow-up or to talk again, he says no.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (10:49 am)

    “A large part of the cost of solar power is transmitting that power on the grid. If we could go off-grid, storing our own power in something like this capacitor we’d solve a lot of problems and make solar power worth it economically as well as environmentally.”

    I’ve posted this in another thread, but it’s worth a read, here:

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Xcel_Energy_Launches_Groundbreaking_Wind_to_Battery_Project_999.html

    Capacitors or batteries able to store power on scales large enough to help utilities will be a bigger game changer for them than the EV will be for the Auto industry.

    I’ve been thinking about this since the last thread that touched on using old Volt batteries for utility storage. Yes, it’s especially useful to be able to store the intermittent power output associated with alternative energy. But let’s imagine a future where something like capacitors or sodium/sulfur batteries (or old Volt batteries) have reached some kind of cost/volume/availability plateau which allows their widespread use.

    Individuals may be able to buy power off-peak for use at high peak, sure. (It’s a given that people with solar on their roofs will buy them.) But what if the utilities install a couple of trailer-size batteries at your local sub-station, and proceeds to do the same sort of thing?

    In order to meet electrical demand today, they operate expensive-to-built, but inexpensive to fuel “baseline” power stations which run all the time. It wouldn’t make sense to turn these plants on and off (nuclear, coal, etc), so when extra power is needed, other kinds of plants go online. These tend to be smaller and more distributed, closer to where peak energy is needed. Many of these peak-energy plants are fueled with expensive natural gas, diesel (even jet fuel); which competes with other sectors for fuel supply.

    BUT with widespread, high-volume batteries almost everywhere, these expensively-fueled plants can be shut down. “Peak” and “Off-Peak” could come to refer to the load-carrying capacity of the power lines. Power could be distributed and stored at night which would be discharged locally when peak usage ramps up during the day.

    Good news: this makes more oil and gas available for transportation, lowering it’s costs. It allows solar energy to be buffered whether or not individuals invest in the batteries. Overall, the utilities can provide the total demand from their most efficient, largest plants; perhaps eventually at a lower cost to the consumer (once new “baseline” plants are paid for).

    Bad news: this could make “off-peak” meaningless for the end consumer. The cost of delivering power would be constant regardless of the time of day.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:05 am)

    I hope it’s real. Then maybe ZENN can make REAL cars, which they can then sell in Canada (they currently only have LSV’s – not legal on most roads here). Maybe then GM will rethink their price points – why would I buy their $40 000 car, when a company based practically in my hometown can give me something all-electric, for cheaper.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think the volt’s great – if I have the money when it’s out, I’ll buy one. But their price is much too high for the majority to afford (even after a couple years when prices drop).


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:06 am)

    #47 Jackson:

    That’s what I’m talking about! I guess that must be where PG&E is trying to go with its old Prius battery experiments. It’s kind of like EEStore in a way. If it works, great. If not, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Unless it’s a stock scam of course, but I don’t have a dime in either one, so what the hay?


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:08 am)

    Hugo Chavez in Venezuela and the fatcat oil sheiks in the Middle East might freak out bad if EEStor’s ultracapacitor is safe, affordable, and can do all the other things they say it can do. It would be a VERY “disruptive technology” indeed. Not just for the transportation sector but for the whole energy industry.

    The party for the oil barons would start to wind down pretty quick probably. No more Airbus A380 jets for the sons and daughters of Middle East oil sheiks to fly around in … like Emirates Airlines. This airline will have customized, pimped out Airbus A380s with plush king sized beds and showers for everyone on them. Gold plated everything and HDTVs everywhere. They can’t do without their luxuries during their 5 hour flights between 7 star hotels you know. Won’t you feel sooo sorry for them if their gravy train with oil prices ends in the next 5-10 years? 😉


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:41 am)

    I think EEStor is neither a scam nor a breakthrough. I think they’ve gotten some promising results that make them hope for a very high energy density when scaled up. Their secretiveness and lack of any prototype suggests to me that they haven’t been able to make the step from what they believe the theoretical energy density should be and what they can get in the lab. I’ve heard others in the university setting write about trying to do the same thing with barium titanate supercapacitors, and only getting a fraction of what they hoped for. My guess is they be off by an order of magnitude (factor of ten)

    When all is said and done, EESTor will likely have a product that can be used in conjunction with Lithium-Ion batteries, but not to replace them. If I’m right about the factor of ten, they’ll end up with a product that will have an energy capacity of 100 kJ/kg, which while 1/6 the energy density of lithium ion batteries is still pretty respectable. With the two technologies working together, they will be able to handle the charging transients during regenerative braking much better, and probably extend the life of the batteries as well.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:45 am)

    Might I be so bold as to ask to what purpose would the Texas company have to “hype” their EEStor technology? I want to wait to see the technology released to manufacturing and put to use. It will either work or it won’t. Let’s don’t start see things that are not necessarily there.

    I hope it works and GM can capitalize on it as well as Ford and Chrysler. Sell the technology to foreign companies, but at a much higher price. Put America first, for a change.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:51 am)

    Van # 16 says, “But we are leaderless as the years roll by.”

    I could really get long winded about this one, but I will keep it short.
    I agree 100% Totally leaderless.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:55 am)

    Statik, # 19. That was a great link! Thank you for posting it.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:06 pm)

    Nasaman, #23. Thank you very much for your much respected insight.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:22 pm)

    20 Brad G

    That’s right, and all the Texas aggie jokes through the ages only serve to underscore your point.

    Did you hear the one about…?


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:28 pm)

    If true (and I’m a skeptic as well as it sounds good too to be true… maybe what they’ll end up with is something roughly equal to Li-Ion in density, price, and maybe it’s not a giant leap just yet)….

    …. not only 4 wheeled vehicles… electric motorcycles, electric scooters, better power tools, better electric lawn mowers (the quick charge ability would really help alone), affordable electric lawn tractors (which now cost about $10k), etc etc etc

    As for clean energy to charge them…. solar thermal just had a major set back, see http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/us/27solar.html?th&emc=th … could this be more Bush admin politics? Let’s quickly give oil companies more new leases, but stop very viable solar thermal for at least 2 years?


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:33 pm)

    51 Noah Nehm……
    I largely agree with you. As I said in post #23, my discussion & study of the current research at Georgia Tech convinces me that an improvement over current-art BaTiO3 capacitors is achievable (in fact has already been demonstrated by Ga. Tech). However, any more than another 2:1 gain in energy density is unlikely.

    But even a 2:1 improvement could give EEStor enough advantage over Maxwell & other established ultracapacitor suppliers to make EEStor products commercially viable. And I agree that EEStor capacitors will still need to be combined with large batteries in automotive applications. The questions are then….

    1) whether (EEStor caps + Li-Ion) would be more cost effective than (Maxwell caps + Li-Ion), or than Li-Ion batteries alone, and….

    2) whether EEStor, having fallen so short of their originally-touted goal, will be able to raise enough money (with their tainted image) to bring even a very competitive product to the existing market .


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:41 pm)

    #56 mien green says
    “That’s right, and all the Texas aggie jokes through the ages only serve to underscore your point.

    Did you hear the one about…?”

    Zing!

    Here’s your Aggie joke for the day…
    Why is there astro turf on Kyle Field? So the homecoming queen won’t graze…

    ( is mien green for UNT? )


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:42 pm)

    A few years back, Microsoft used to issue press releases on “future products” in an attempt to prevent competitors from selling their tech before MS could deliver theirs.

    I can’t help but think these press releases may be an attempt to prevent investment in Li Ion batteries and fuel cells, in the hopes that ultra / super capacitors are the answer.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:47 pm)

    #27 MDDave
    Last announcement in January 2007 was about independently verified powder purities (booOOOooring 😉 and the verification was done by Southwest Research Institute, Inc. located in San Antonio, Texas.

    As bonus information in that press release, they said “EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles.”
    Clearly, that didn’t happen, so it will be interesting to see if there’s new bonus information in an upcoming press release. But there may not be any press release from EEStor, directly, this time. Sounds like all the press is coming from ZENN.

    Oddly, I can’t find the original press release at marketwire, anymore. Was it pulled… I wonder? Here’s findarticles.com’s copy of the original marketwire release.
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200701/ai_n17125012


  62. 62
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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:48 pm)

    I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Enron, yet.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:48 pm)

    #60 Jason

    I agree…

    We need to develop Li-Ion now because it is a known technology… Get the Li-Ion cars on the road for consumers then concentrate on Capacitors, Fuel Cells, Hydrogen and George Jetson’s anti-gravity car.


  64. 64
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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:49 pm)

    Check out this article on EEStor’s ultracapacitor:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-325-Global-Warming-Examiner~y2008m6d24-EEStor-Advanced-Capacitor-Best-Use-In-A-Hybrid-Car

    “Because it is a solid state device, it should charge and discharge VERY FAST. Because there is no chemical change, it should have a virtually UNLIMITED number of cycles and should not be very sensitive to temperature. That means the capacitor buffering device can be relatively small.”

    “A capacitor could also be used with a battery pack for plug-in electric hybrids (if battery storage is cheaper per wh). The battery in this car would not have to be as capable because it would only be used to recharge the capacitor.”

    It sounds like EEStor’s ultracapacitor could be used for plug-in hybrids like the Volt even if they are initially pretty expensive.

    Ultracapacitors could be like SRAM (static random access memory) or DRAM (dynamic random access memory) is with computer technology. Ultracapacitors would be like a very fast access buffer memory. The electric motor would be like the CPU and the lithium ion battery would be like the hard drive or flash memory which feeds and stores electricity (instead of the “1s and 0s” with computer binary bits).

    Ultracapacitors would definitely give future plug-in hybrids and electric cars more acceleration power like nitrous oxide in IC engines. All kinds of possibilities for doing “quick charging” on long trips, etc. You could charge your Volt up slow or very fast depending on what you have access to.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:54 pm)

    #64 GM Volt Fan

    Hate to burst your bubble but the Dallas Examiner is the local free rag… Ranks right up there with the Enquirer and the Sun. I would not count on them as a solid source of information.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (12:59 pm)

    65. Brad G.

    The article came from the Charlotte (NC) Examiner. Here’s the credentials of the author which I copy/pasted. He’s an engineer, probably an electrical engineer it sounds like.

    John Ryden

    John Ryden is an Engineer with a background in Finance and Economics. Here he will discuss how energy production, energy use, and conservation affect us and the rest of the world with a focus on the economic implications.


  67. 67
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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:01 pm)

    Let us hope that Eestor is a real company with real results that are promising and not some sham


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:02 pm)

    #57 Jeff M

    My gosh, do you see a Bush boogie man behind everything. Give the poor man a break and the rest of us at the same time.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:13 pm)

    #65 GM Volt Fan

    I click your link and it comes up Dallas Examiner… Sorry about that…

    My last word on EEStor is… If they are for real, great, the applications will be tremendous…

    EEStor’s actions though smell of a scam… No comment, No comment, No comment… Also I love the articles headline (again).

    “EEStor About to Release Public Data on its Energy Storage Units (EESUs)”

    Keyword is “ABOUT”. This is like the thrid or fourth “about” I’ve seen from them in the last year. We are ABOUT to release public data. Call me “doubting Brad”… Let me see it, touch it, get shocked by it… then I will believe it…


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:14 pm)

    #62 John Es

    ENRON

    (Now I understand why Statik has gotten so negative lately)


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:40 pm)

    #60 Jason M. Hendler:

    Gee, that sounds eerily familiar……………


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:42 pm)

    Brad G #69. I believe that you are right, but I hope you are wrong.

    Oh, when I click on GM Volt Fan’s link, it comes up Hartford Examiner.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:44 pm)

    The next article will read, ceo of Eestor is waiting for John McCains 300 million dollar x prize to come to fruition. lol


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:46 pm)

    # 36 Dave G says:

    “Once the idea of driving all electric goes mainstream, demand will skyrocket. Car battery research, development, and production will explode.”

    I agree with the sentiment .. but .. it’s probably not advisable to use ‘battery’ and ‘explode’ in the same sentence. 😉


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:50 pm)

    69. Brad G.

    I am skeptical about EEStor myself. It would be awesome if their ultracapacitors are for real. EEStor just needs to SHOW everyone a real product that they are planning to put into production. They need to get their secret product out of the lab and into some test vehicles at least. When we see EEStor ultracap powered cars climbing Pike’s Peak reliably and safely (like LGChem’s battery), then they’ll have something.

    http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html

    Til then, you wonder if they are just “all hat and no cattle” like Ross Perot used to say. Believe me, I’d love for EEStor ultracaps to take over the energy world like ZZTop did with rock and roll back in the 70s and 80s.

    EEStor is near Austin, TX. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the next huge oil demand destroying energy storage product came from Texas where the oil business has always been big. Maybe they could move out to Silicon Valley later if the good ole boy oil guys give them a hard time. Maybe that’s why they are so secretive to begin with. They’re afraid some J.R. Ewing oil dude might try to “get ’em” or something. EEStor will sure hit a “gusher” if what they are saying is true. 🙂


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:55 pm)

    Of course, the giant leap of technology that this devie would represent is the reason there is so much skepticism – it’s hard for people to believe that anything can be this much better than what exists today. Instant recharging, a lifespan probably measured in decades, not years, a size and weight small enough to fit virtually any sized vehicle, and to top it off, a price which is a small portion of existing battery prices all make it tough to buy into the claims. But some of the advanced characteristics already exist in battery technologies – almost instant rechargeability and a cycle life that extend for decades, like Altair batteries. Almost regardless of what the 3rd party report says, I predict a dramatic movement in ZENN Motors stock when the report is released, one way or the other – it’s hard to imagine a report that would leave the stock trading in its current range.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (1:56 pm)

    Jerry #9

    It may be too late for 2010, but not for 2012. Now that a super capacitor has been developed that can get over 220 miles per charge and charge in a matter of minutes, do we really need the li-ion battery ? There’s too many doubters in this chat room, we need to be talking about American ingenuity. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. If Edison had been such a doubter we’d all be stumbling around in the dark.

    I got the following off the net:
    “To put this in perspective,” says Paul Scott, co-founder of Plug In America, “I drive an electric Toyota RAV4 with a 1,000-pound battery that is capable of holding 27 kWh (kilowatt-hours) of power. I could replace my battery with three EESUs, weighing a total of only 300 pounds, that are capable of holding 45 kWhs of power.” The additional power and reduced weight would more than double the vehicle’s 120-mile range and it would recharge in a matter of minutes off 220 volts, slightly longer when using household 110 volts.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:00 pm)

    Texas-Enron~=~EEStor-Texas
    72 month intrest free financing available now for ICE.
    120 month intrest free financing for Volt let’s me buy one. And goodbye gasoline, maybe the refineries can focus on heating fuel and diesel for the truckers.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:03 pm)

    #77
    Edison stole most of the ideas credited to him. Just like everyone.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:05 pm)

    You are connected to the Examiner’s web-site closest to your location. Simple web programming to keep you informed in your local area.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:10 pm)

    Great discussion of *possibilities* today (but then again, that’s all we’re able to do at this point. SOON though, Soon. (I know, not soon enough, but soon).
    As with so many things, we’ll know in time.
    Be well,
    Tag
    PS the 92 minute clip about the Boussard reactor was great.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:13 pm)

    N Riley

    Might I be so bold as to ask to what purpose would the Texas company have to “hype” their EEStor technology? I want to wait to see the technology released to manufacturing and put to use. It will either work or it won’t. Let’s don’t start see things that are not necessarily there.

    I hope it works and GM can capitalize on it as well as Ford and Chrysler. Sell the technology to foreign companies, but at a much higher price. Put America first, for a change.

    to N Riley,

    I could not agree with you more. “Put American first for a change”.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:16 pm)

    What will probably happen to EEStor if they are successful is that they will get an offer they can not refuse. That will be the end of the EEStor story. Might come from our big oil or overseas big oil.

    Look for our good “friends” in the mid-east to plow a lot of our money back into battery production or outright buying patents to enable them to continue being a leech on the automotive industry.

    I know this is being a pessimist, but I just can’t help thinking that those guys over there are plenty smart enough to figure out that they they have a lot of loose cash and American companies are suckers for selling out game changing technology to our “friends”.

    It will be interesting to see how we react to the things that will happen over the next 3 years.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:21 pm)

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:36 pm)

    Off Topic….

    I just spoke with a local Saturn Dealer who said they will NOT be allowed to add anything to the sticker price of the Vue 2 Mode Plug-in or to the Flextreme E-REV Plug-in. Unless this changes, which he says is very unlikely, it’s GREAT NEWS! 🙂 🙂 🙂

    PS: Saturn’s Flextreme will have virtually the same drivetrain as a Volt


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (2:54 pm)

    Nasaman, that IS great news! I kind of wish we had something more solid than verbal hearsay, but it’s the best angle I’ve heard on the “man I hope they don’t gouge us” subject that’s been debated recently. So I’ll take it!


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:08 pm)

    This “Do nothing” congress needs to become a “Do everything” congress. Increase domestic supply, build nukes, solar, wind, battery, tides, WHATEVER, but do EVERYTHING.
    JMO,
    Tag


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:12 pm)

    nasaman (#85):

    “Saturn’s Flextreme will have virtually the same drivetrain as a Volt”

    YAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    …. uh, did he say anything about when Flextreme is coming out?


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:41 pm)

    #83 What will probably happen to EEStor if they are successful is that they will get an offer they can not refuse. That will be the end of the EEStor story. Might come from our big oil or overseas big oil.

    Not even big oil has enough billions to buy this from the developers if they have any kind of business sense. If true EEstor will become the richest company ever.

    Electric storage for personel vehicles, military application out the yaya, huge huge electric storage market from utility companies, replacement of generators for some people, UPS for computers, todays entire capacitor market, long haul trucking applications, marine battery replacement, untold numbers of personal devices such as flashlights, ups for the home, cell phones, mp3 players, portable this portable that. Tons of others stuff I haven’t even thought of.

    If this is true EEStor stands to be so huge an rich it will make Exxonmobil and Microsoft look like pocket change.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:49 pm)

    This sounds like one of those Nigerian scams you read about. After they’ve taken the people’s money, they keep on promising to deliver on what they promised in riches, and it’s always RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:50 pm)

    88 Jackson……
    Saturn won’t say whether they plan to produce the Flextreme (hey, the Volt’s production decision was only announced within the past month, right?), but we know public reaction to it has been extremely positive. In fact, I saw it at the giant NY Auto Show this March —it was placed at the most prominent spot in Saturn’s display area, if that tells you anything!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:52 pm)

    #87 Tagamet

    I fully and whole heartedly agree with you. Do all of it at the same time. We can and must start now on all facets and not take no for answers until we achieve energy independence. It can be done even if the blow-hards in congress and else where say it can’t, we shouldn’t and we will stop you. All of which they will try.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (3:58 pm)

    Omegaman66

    Big oil, ours or theirs, will offer billions and promise to develop it but they will have clauses that will allow them to bury it from production or will delay it for decades and decades. You offer easy billions vs hard work with some chance of failure and see if they don’t take the easy billions. I have great faith in my fellow Americans to turn a fast buck. We see it every day. Look at all the jobs we are exporting overseas. If that isn’t short sighted fast buck making then I am sadly mistaken.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (4:00 pm)

    It seems like talk of the Flextreme spoke of the same time period as the Volt roll-out. Late 2010 or 2011.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (4:01 pm)

    If you couldn’t purchase a Volt because of short supply in 2010 or 2011, maybe the Saturn Flextreme would be a good purchase.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (4:02 pm)

    A new topic has been posted about McCain visiting a GM plant.


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    mien green

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (4:36 pm)

    59 Brad G says:
    “is mien green for UNT?”

    Isn’t that Texas State or something now? But no, and not Baylor, either. Has more to do with why God uses an orange palette to glorify his sunsets.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (4:36 pm)

    I posted what I did because I believe if true eestor stands to be worth many billions eventually. But I honestly do not believe any oil company would ever buy this technology and then bury it. That would be stupid on their part. The need for oil will not go away with this device. People yall need to understand that the oil industry will have plenty of demand for another 100 years regardless of what we power our cars with.

    Dwindling supply of oil and with a robust economy enabled by eestor means cosmetic, plastics and a host of other products still provides for a demand for oil that they can finally meet. Offer them the option to buy out eestor’s ultracap as well and they would be slobbering all over theirself to get it to market, not cover it up.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (4:40 pm)

    All that said I don’t believe any of this will happen because I believe that there will be drawbacks to the ultracap that keep it from being as widely used as I hope. Such as leaving big creaters in the street periodically when one explodes. And you thought waiting to clear the wreckage away was a pain just wait until they have to rebuild the road. Or maybe cost will be prohibitive, or maybe they won’t be allowed in cars for safety reason. Something will surely not pan out like they claim, but for now my fingers are crossed that it is all they claim it is.


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    Pete K

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (5:48 pm)

    Murray (31)

    Loved the Caddy-shack parody!

    Al then says to the old car (vs old lady),

    “Hey, I bet you were something before electricity!”


  101. 101
    Allan

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (6:57 pm)

    Another excuse to delay putting batteries in everything! Whoo hoo!!


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    kubel

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (7:43 pm)

    My prediction is EESU will either be:

    A good, cheap, buffer-type ultracapacitor- but not very good at storing large amounts of energy for extended time. Will be used in all EVs for bursts of performance and preventing wear and tear on batteries.

    …or…

    Something that will completely destroy Li-ion (and all other) technology giving us the ability to reach 400-mile AER and refill in minutes without breaking the bank. It will be in every home, at every power plant, in every electronic device. They will later determine that it will cause cancer…


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:07 pm)

    Cross up a hi-amp 3500 Volt capacitor and all they’ll find is your smokin’ Reeboks, but no crater :-))


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    Nelson

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:20 pm)

    What a wonderful game of Poker. The players all have a great hand but GM has the upper hand by not having yet committed to any power supplier. If A123 or LG don’t play their cards right, GM might turn to EEStor for the Volt.


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    Jeff M

     

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    Jun 27th, 2008 (9:29 pm)

    N Riley, no need to find a Bush boogie man … the current Bush admin has a long track record of supporting big oil (including w/the hydrogen hoax) and silencing anything regarding links of carbon emissions to global warming for so many years. They were a big playing in killing the ZEV mandate… remember the ties to big oil/auto were/are throughout the admin… don’t forget where Andy Card came from before he worked in the Bush admin.

    It’s a long lost cause if you want to continue to defend this admin. I’ll give him credit for finally continuing the Clinton admin’s policy of engaging North Korea and finally getting them to start to dismantle their nuclear program, even if it’s an about face ….

    Imagine what this country could have done if what we spent even for just 1 year of this Iraq war on battery, EV’s, and clean energy. We wouldn’t even have needed to be talking about gas prices….

    Sorry, rant off, but N Riley, you are free to your opinion, just don’t proclaim to speak for “the rest of us” if all you watch is fox news and listen to rush.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:20 pm)

    Why are we even discussing Eestor?? Think about it, all they’ve done is make outlandish claims and have demonstrated nothing. How hard is that to do? Nasaman’s little chat with Ga. Tech really puts the ridiculousness of Eestor into perspective.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:36 pm)

    Regarding the major set back for solar thermal and N Riley seeming to believe this decision had “nothing” to do with the Bush admin… I did some more research.

    The Bureau of Land Management that made this decision is an agency within the United States Department of the Interior, which is a Cabinet position nominated by the President. The position is held by Dirk Kempthorne, a Republican. A former Senator, during his six years in the Senate, Kempthorne scored a “0″ on the League of Conservation Voters’ legislative scorecards every year except 1993. Read more on his environmental record at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Kempthorne#Secretary_of_the_Interior

    So no, the decision is not a surprise… Bush nominated this guy, and he could care less about the environment, yet all of a sudden he is worried about desert critters so much now that he puts a big road block in the way of solar thermal that has been already proven to be a very successful alternative energy source? I wouldn’t be surprised if this same Department of the Interior supports giving more land leases to big oil on those same lands solar thermal operators would like to lease.


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    Jun 27th, 2008 (11:50 pm)

    Does anyone remember this thing they called “it”. It was supposed to revolutionize the transportation industry. It was very secretive for many years and when it was finally shown to the public, you could hear the sound of a huge DUD. BTW, “it” turned out to be the Segway battery powered scooter. History has shown that hyped up claims rarely meet user expectations. I see this EEStor thing being a released product that has some “hidden” limitations that nobody is talking about yet, but will be quickly realized after public scrutiny. Get ready for that bubble to burst.


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    Jun 28th, 2008 (12:07 am)

    I propose a built-in anti-theft device for the Volt. Since there is a ready supply of hundreds of “volts” and some serious “amps” to back it up, why not rig a security mode that arms the vehicle with the key fob. When armed, anyone who attempts to steal the mighty Volt will get a full dose of GM Wattage throughout their thieving body. I would pay extra for a feature like this and enjoy posting a nice youtube video of the first crispy critter caught roasting next to my beloved Volt. Gotcha.


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    Tagamet

     

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    Jun 28th, 2008 (1:43 am)

    Jeff M@104,
    Nor should you speak as if you’re being factual. As you said, opinions fly around here all the time, but it’s when people (including the Bush bashers) take a Holier than Thou attitude and start tossing aspersions (if the shoe fits….) that they get irritating.
    JMO,
    Tag


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    nthused

     

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    Jun 28th, 2008 (10:00 am)

    Hope this pans out and is then successful. Very exciting.


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    Jun 29th, 2008 (5:28 pm)

    If the cost reduction and the weight reduction that EEStor claims (compared to lithium batteries) for its EESU come to fruition, then…an EEStor-equipped Segway would be cheaper more convenient than the current Segway. A lot of folks who think a Segway is not quite worth the money will change their minds. Don’t walk: get there at 12 MPH! IIRC one of the secret code names for the mystery invention that turned out to be Segway, in addition to “it”, was “Ginger” wasn’t it?

    I predict that in-wheel motors paired with Bose Active Suspension will power the premium vehicle of the future.


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    Jun 29th, 2008 (5:35 pm)

    EEStor’s top secret technology is being monitored by a top secret third party. Wow! I wonder if they write all of their reports with disappearing ink.


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    Jun 29th, 2008 (5:39 pm)

    I’m glad to see that the Zenn exclusive is only for cars up to 1400lbs.
    http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Zenn-Motor-Company-TSX-VENTURE-ZNN-837653.html

    Most real cars are way above . . . even the light-weight Aptera is heavier than that.


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    Jun 29th, 2008 (5:47 pm)

    I encourage inventors to run with this one: Driver’s seats that you drive out of the car: “Remain Seated!” Or, if you prefer, call it a wheelchair or ATV that you sit in while driving. Handicapped would benefit and police would dig it for the transition from cruiser to ground pursuit.

    Hanicapped would TOTALLY love it. I think an Aussie fellow has something like this. How is this relevant to GM? Do they make vehicles?


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    Jun 29th, 2008 (5:51 pm)

    To “Dag” — I’m pretty sure that’s 1400 kgs. top weight limit. I think that error crept in to an otherwise accurate report somewhere. = 3,080 lbs., right?


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    George B.

     

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    Jun 30th, 2008 (3:21 pm)

    Tagamet #87

    Just to set the record straight, Congress overwhelmingly passed H.R.6049 (Renewable Energy and Job Creation Act) and the SENATE is sitting on it. Give your Senator a call or email and tell him/her/it to get crackin’! The bill will provide, if my math is right, a tax credit of abour $5,000 for a Volt….


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    Jun 30th, 2008 (3:35 pm)

    You know, I’ve been watching EESTOR for quite a while and they aren’t hyping much of anything. They published a patent that basically says they’ve created the Holy Grail of electron storage and then shut up. The hype is coming frm the bloggers, much of it flat out wrong.

    Zenn motors has been doing a bit of sizzle-selling, but their IPO raised a measly $15M. They are losing money at a 6-figure clip so they won’t have that for long if EESTOR doesn’t pan out. I don’t see much of anything fishy…just a modestly funded long shot.


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    Jun 30th, 2008 (10:31 pm)

    George B.,
    Congress= Senate and House of Representiatives.


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    OzoneLevel

     

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    Jul 1st, 2008 (7:20 am)

    #107 Jeff M
    Your postings are more appropriate at the MoveOn site. We’re really not interested in your political opinions. Keep the discussion on the technical aspects of the Volt.


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    Mike

     

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    Jul 2nd, 2008 (3:28 pm)

    Based on today’s stock action on ZNNMF, I’d say something really is about to be announced.


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    Franklin

     

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    Jul 3rd, 2008 (8:10 am)

    The inside traders are going for a double bump this time. “Announcement of a future announcement” is driving the stock up now and then will again after the press release (through Tyler Hamilton, you can bet):

    Press Release: Third-party certifiers agree, Yes, the miraculous powders are as pure as the new-driven snow!


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    Jul 4th, 2008 (8:20 am)

    The administration just rescinded requiring the 2-year study which would have delayed big solar installations on federal land. Buncha’ darn Dems! (am I right?)


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    Farrell

     

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    Nov 30th, 2008 (9:11 pm)

    Talk is cheap, action counts.

    Self-discipline and strategy, make the day!


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    Joe

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    Mar 15th, 2009 (11:15 am)

    ‘Eestore’ the hyped product that is always just a little ways from commercial production. Classic traits of a scam. Missed deadlines. No product available for examination, despite patents. Secretive. Does anyone want to bet that Zenn will meet the fall 2009 production statements ? Hah, hah, har, har, har !!!!!! This whole thing is laughable, to the ‘zenn’ degree! The entire ‘Eestore story’ is likable to a Norwegian dating scam, or even some of the popular email hoaxes in circulation!

    “ANYTHING CAN BE SAID ON THE INTERNET” …………but that doesn’t make it true, or real !

    Let’s be ‘real’ folks, if Eestore was about something factual, the big three automakers would be working closely with them (already), and we’d be reading about Eestore’s product being tested in a test mule. Another thing; why would anybody license their ‘breakthrough’ to some small company like Zenn ? Any common sense here ? Are the lights coming on ? Or are we still buying bridges to nowhere ?

    Richard Weir, doesn’t have a real product, he’s just got vaporware. The ‘Bernie Madoff’ of energy storage. Richard ‘Bernie’ Weir,,,, now that’s got a nice ring to it ! He’s made these fantastic claims, and common sense would expect that proven prototypes would have been forthcoming. But………….they never materialize ! He’s just sucking up the investment dollars for as long as he can get away with it. “Just give me some more money, I’ve just about got it”

    The best thing about Eestore is that they are good for a huge laugh from time to time.


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    Tracey Fronk

     

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    Mar 8th, 2010 (9:58 pm)

    We agree with all your conclusions and definitely will anxiously look onward to your next messages. Simply saying thanks won’t merely end up being enough, for that extraordinary readability inside your posting. I’ll instantly get your feed to keep privy with any messages. Good work and much achievement in your business endeavors! Cheers!