I just had the chance to interview Ed Peper, Chevrolet brand manager, and some of his team members, John Hughes, Carolyn Normandin, and Steve Wagg about bringing the Volt to market. Unless other initials occur, the responses are from Mr. Peper.
What is your job in GM?
I’m responsible for all the marketing, advertising, promotion, relation to production development and also just had sales added to my responsibility. So just about anything having to do with the Chevy brand myself or my team is involved.
Does that involve Chevrolet internationally?
No. I’m responsible for the US market. There are 4 major regions in the world for GM in a lot of big countries. I’m part of the global Chevy council that meets and talks probably once a month and we discuss all the issues that are germane to us all and how we can help each other with common practices.
That’s especially important as Chevy is the fastest growing global brand right now. Some of our brands do cross different regional boundaries.
When the Volt concept first arrived did you guys know right from the start that you wanted to make it a Chevrolet or did that come later after some initial discussion?
We knew right from the beginning it was going to be a Chevrolet. Prior to the Volt happening we really changed the direction of our brand. We want it to stand for fuel economy as well as the multiple fuel solutions that we offer. That would be great mileage on current vehicles, E85, and hybrid products and also the Volt and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. We developed this whole campaign, our fuel solutions campaign going from gas friendly to gas free and all of us in leadership in GM felt as the volume brand for the company we had to make a huge statement, not with a smaller brand or a smaller division, we needed to make it with the biggest division. It was very intentional that Chevrolet got the Volt. The other thing is too we’ve got to find a way to really produce these in high volumes so we can really make a huge difference.
Was the first thought to move Chevy to the fuel economy car and the Volt was the second thought?
Well it was one of many. We have existing technologies already out there right now, but this was one of our gas free technologies this and the hydrogen fuel cell, and were doing that hydrogen fuel cell test now, so we have a couple of different gas free technologies we were working on at the same time.
Even though GM is being open and showing us the Volt program, there are those naysayers that say the Volt is a statement and that GM doesn’t really plan to sell Volts in high volumes. What is your comment about that?
Well I think we’re making a huge investment in this product and we don’t make investments in products that we don’t plan to sell. Eventually we may start with a little lower volume at the beginning as we get it into the marketplace and start seeding it and talking about it and obviously working with folks like you Lyle to help spread the word to other consumers. We want to make this a profitable business for us in the long term, not only the Volt business but the business in general of GM. We don’t make investments like this if were not planning to take it forward and make it work for us. That’s very very very significant.
Some people say its helping to change the image of GM but the real meat and potatoes will be to sell trucks.
For us its definitely going to make a difference as well. We believe its a game changing vehicle for us.
(SW) Its a category buster. When Toyota launched the Prius in the initial years they sold very few of them and they lost a significant amount of money. I’m not suggesting that’s the business model you will see with us, but clearly as you plan for next generations of these vehicles you intend to make it a core mainstream vehicle within your portfolio.
There are lots of electrics out there and lots of hybrid, but no other manufacturer has a vehicle like this that provide consumers with the opportunity or the function of a vehicle like this. So we have a real opportunity for a considerable period of time to be sort of alone in this arena. That’s why I call it a category buster, because your not really competing with electric and your not really competing with hybrids.
Do you have a plan on how to educate the public to understand the car since its so unique in order to make it more readily salable?
Were working on that right now. Were actually doing a lot of work right now to understand in general who the consumer is for this product. Were working with a group that’s based out of Harvard and there a company called Innosight. What their working with us on is developing a jobs-based positioning for Volt. Which means what are the jobs that Volt really needs to handle for the consumers that buy them. On an emotional level, on a social level, on a functional level, what are the jobs that this vehicle must perform and must do well. Were in the process right now. We’ve done a couple of focus groups. We have a lot of data that you and others have provided us. And its going to help us from a marketing standpoint, what things should we talk about, what things shouldn’t we talk about. And how to we best present the category buster. How do we present this in such a way that consumers who are interested will know this is the first of its kind and this will be the best of its kind and it will be the only one of its kind when it hits the market place in 2010.
With respect to volume, any new car that GM makes can only be sold through the dealerships, is that a contractual obligation?
Yes, the dealers have a legal sales of service agreement with us that’s a binding agreement. They are the only ones that can sell new vehicle through their outlet.
So GM cannot sell directly to the consumer over the Internet?
No sir, we may get people interested and they may wish to communicate with the dealer over the Internet but ultimately that sale has to take place at the dealership.
About how may Chevy dealers are out there?
Around 3800.
How might you distribute these vehicles to those dealers initially?
I think there is going to be specialized service training. Many times what we do for example with certain brands like Corvette, not every Chevrolet dealer sells Corvettes because there’s an enormous amount of training that has to be done to service those vehicles. This could very much be like that. If someone’s not trained and they’re not able to fix the potential problems or issue with VOLT they probably wont be getting any.
(SH) That’s one of the benefits of having this branded a Chevrolet is the vast distribution channel that exists and the service support that exists within that channel. But as Ed mentioned there will be prerequisite for the dealers prior to them being able to sell the new Chevy Volt. That will be of course service training and sales training. We want to make sure they are able to understand how the car operates completely and totally. But also if there are any issues technically they know how to address them swiftly. There may also be some required tools and such. The whole idea is to make sure that our entire sales and service organization is at a high level of readiness for this prior to the arrival of the product. That part of the whole experience to make sure that when the product gets here the support system is in place.
(CN) There’s a very very strong history of that. For example the hybrids that are out there now have a special battery. So before a dealer could get a hybrid that dealer would have to have his or her service people go through the training and that is one of the prerequisites.
And it goes beyond our dealer to the first responders and law enforcement and fire department areas as well to make sure that when these vehicles are on the marketplace they’re familiar with then just as they become familiar with our hybrids and our hybrid systems. As well as the Equinox fuel cell and the hydrogen storage that is on that vehicle. We have a very comprehensive plan so that when we go to market not only our dealers are ready but the municipalities are ready as well.
So even though the cars have to be sold at dealers then, GM can still regulate what the dealer has to do to get the car?
There would be certain criteria that we would uniformly apply across all our dealers in an equitable manner. In terms of the requirements, we are going to have to develop them. The dealer has a choice though, they can either do them or not do them. If they don’t do them then they wont get the product.
Are you going to roll the car out gradually considering the huge public demand in light of recent gas prices, though wouldn’t it be great to get a strong initial foothold?
There a lot of considerations that we have to take into play. First off this is new innovation and first off and foremost we want to make sure that the product and the safety and all the key components and elements of the product itself are one hundred percent before we come to market. But also when we do come to market because its new unlike anything we’ve ever done there becomes the requirement for us to train and have service support before we distribute the product there. In some cases the system has a limitation. Its difficult to train 4000 dealers or 8000 technicians over a period of a month or two. So there potentially could be the need to have a regional rollout and go across the country in a somewhat systematic manner. But there’s a number of considerations we have to look at along the way.
Lyle what is your sense in talking with your many many people that they think this vehicle is going to be priced at?
(ME) When it was initially stated that the car would be less than $30,000 you could sense people’s happiness with that. But then as the latest sentiment has moved closer to $40,000 as per Bob Lutz, you can detect some degree of discontent. Certainly I think that at $40,000 there would be a lot less people who would be able to afford it.
All of us would really want to see this car take over the roads, that’s my dream, and obviously the price is going to have to play a role in that somehow. I think people now expect its probably going to be around $35,000.
Do you think that the fact its a four seater could be a hindrance to widespread acceptance of the car?
I think just to start with this is going to be a very nice sedan. I think its good sized to start with. I will tell you that were obviously going to look for other applications for this technology in other products. It could be bigger products. Were still on the drawing board on some of that stuff right now.
Are you thinking about other brands and other sizes of vehicles?
(SH) Yes. And also when you take a look for example at a Civic hybrid. While it does have a bench in the back, that’s not a place where you and I would want to spend a lot of time. So in the scheme of things we don’t see that as a major issue. The idea is that when we take a look at what the vehicle is we keep falling back on the benefits. The gas free range, and no anxiety with the ability to drive it as a regular vehicle. Its not convenient to charge but you still have the ability not to use gas ever. That’s something that’s unique and I think trumps any issue about a three place versus two place second row.
Are you targeting certain markets in the rollout?
We’re still in the planning process. A lot is going to happen here when we meet with Innosight next week . We’re going to go through a lot of this data. Customer clinics and what they perceive to be this jobs based positioning. And then we will roll from there to get a really good marketing positioning for the vehicle. And the we will start developing tactics for the launch of the vehicle. And so it all comes in sequence and we should have a really good plan I’d say in a couple to three months.
Jun 25th, 2008 (6:04 am)It sounds like GM is doing a lot of thinking about this just as we would expect. Lets hope they make good choices and I hope they start showing the final product soon.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (6:07 am)USA! USA! USA!
Go Volt!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (6:11 am)Nice interview Lyle. Thanks!
I find it interesting that you were asked about the Volt pricing. It shows the issue has not yet been decided and very much on their minds.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (6:21 am)Its awesome that you get to talk with industry people and get little tid-bits of how they are progressing on this.
Keep up the good work!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (6:37 am)Great work, Lyle. Keep it up.
BTW, I do hope they keep Florida on the initial rollout list, so that I can fly from Alabama to get one. But it’s really gonna suck if the closest service-trained dealer is in Atlanta (for me anyway). Who knows? Perhaps someone from a dealership here will get trained.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (6:53 am)From the article, (SH) says: “The gas free range, and no anxiety with the ability to drive it as a regular vehicle. Its not convenient to charge but you still have the ability not to use gas ever.”
Its not convenient to charge? For me, the convenience of not having to go to the gas station is obvious. I would rather take 30 seconds to plug in every night and unplug every morning than to take 10 minutes to gas up every week.
Bottom line: Plugging in is MORE CONVENIENT than going to the gas station. It’s a shame GM’s own marketing hasn’t recognized this.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (6:58 am)From the article:
Question: “With respect to volume, any new car that GM makes can only be sold through the dealerships, is that a contractual obligation?”
Answer: “Yes, the dealers have a legal sales of service agreement with us that’s a binding agreement. They are the only ones that can sell new vehicle through their outlet.”
Can anyone say PRICE GOUGING !
——
Great interview Lyle, as always.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:05 am)Good interview Lyle. Neat to see they are putting feelers out to see what price range will be best excepted. Perhaps they haven’t settled on a price yet, although I would be a bit suprised if they didn’t.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:05 am)Thanks for this Lyle…good stuff
Helps me be more specific in my questions for my local dealers. I’ll be sure to bug them about when their service personnel are being trained on the Volt, which obviously would lead into a better chance that they actually get some of them to sell.
Eastern PA baby … what a great target market !!!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:07 am)Convenience is relative, as is price. For apartment dwellers like myself, finding an outlet is going to be a problem. Same thing with price. For someone making $70K a year, a $ 35-40K price tag is not going to be a problem.
This whole Volt gestation and birthing process has been quite a roller coaster. I was all hyped about it initially, but now reality has set in, and I realize I won’t be owning a Volt anytime in the next five-seven years. Between the incremental roll-out and the high price tag, I’ll be looking at one around retirement time, if that.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:12 am)“Even though GM is being open and showing us the Volt program, there are those naysayers that say the Volt is a statement and that GM doesn’t really plan to sell Volts in high volumes. What is your comment about that?
Well I think we’re making a huge investment in this product and we don’t make investments in products that we don’t plan to sell.”
Obviously, Ed does not remember the EV1 and all the money invested in a vehicle that was NEVER for sale…
Why does GM pretend that the EV1 never existed or that it was such a great car?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:15 am)I’m glad to see that GM is considering E-Flex for other vehicles. I really see a better market for a mid-size sedan with 5 passenger seating than a smaller 4-seat econobox.
Even if the mileage is reduced from 5 miles per kWh to let’s say 4 miles per kWh, that reduces AER from 40 to 32, and energy costs per mile goes from 3 cents per mile to 3.75 cents per mile (based on $0.15 per kWh). This is compared to 16 cents per mile for a Malibu with an average 25 mpg (4-cyl engine) and $4 gal gas.
Hopefully, E-Flex will find its way into trucks and SUV’s eventually as well.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:17 am)3800 dealers and 10,000 Volts the first year. Each dealer will not get three, some will get zero and others more. But even if the dealers with Volts got 36, that would be three a month for the first year. This is not limited availability, this is very limited availability!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:17 am)Lyle, great interview, as usual.
The only thing I do not understand is the training issue for the service techs. It was stated that they can not train techs from 3800+ dealerships in a month or two.
But:
GM knows when this car will be released.
They have training scheduled at regular intervals for their techs at sites all around the country.
They will have 100+ pre-production models on the road sometime next year. That is what we have been told, as I recall.
So it is not like they will only have a month to train. They could start in mid 2009 at their training sites with maybe 10 of those pre-production units. That would give them almost 18 months to get everyone up to speed.
I just get the feeling that they are intentionally trying to keep the cars located in small areas for the first year or so. But the question is: Why do that?
If they truly want widespread acceptance of these cars, they need to be seen by the general public driving on the roads all over the country, not just in LA, Miami, Washington, D.C., and the one unit for Lyle in New York.
If the plan is to produce 10K units the first model year, they should plan for 200 cars per state, and get to work with training for service and sales people. That is, if they are sure this car will work everywhere……………
JMHO
P.S. I am ready to be one of the first 200 people from the great state of Ohio!!!!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:29 am)Also from the article:
Question: “So even though the cars have to be sold at dealers then, GM can still regulate what the dealer has to do to get the car?”
Answer: “There would be certain criteria that we would uniformly apply across all our dealers in an equitable manner. In terms of the requirements, we are going to have to develop them. The dealer has a choice though, they can either do them or not do them. If they don’t do them then they wont get the product.”
Can anyone say GM GOUGING DEALERS before they GOUGE US?
I also have no bones about the article, nice work. I bet you that guys name is not really Ed Peper. Marketing guy with the name Peper? C’mon.
“Ouch town, population you, bro”
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:29 am)I am all for doing marketing research and bean counting, etc., but thank God Bob Lutz is in charge, because he won’t let a stack of numbers obscure his vision.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:31 am)#10. benson,
I agree with you on that. I have a garage with plugs on all the walls so the volt would be pretty convienient for me. My last place, however, forced me to park about 30 yards from my townhouse. This would make charging the car at home a real pain (could I trust having a plug in all night with some of the “local kids” wandering around at night?)
I think the Volt will be great for many (I want one) but may not be worth the extra price for some until the charging options are moved closer to parking lots for everybody. If I could not charge the $35-40K Volt routinely I would rather have the 40+ mpg cobalt replacement that GM has announced (which I could buy for less than 20K).
Everyone benefits from cars like the volt, however, since it will reduce the demand for gasoline.
#7. Many good companies will only sell through dealers. For instance, if you want a Stihl chainsaw, you can only get one at a Stihl dealership. If you want something cheaper, you can go to Home Depot and grab a box but you will not be getting a Stihl product. When you ask the help about the product you may or may not get a good answer. In the case of the Stihl products, the dealers are trained and can answer your questions and fix your product. I know this first hand. The product has a higher value to me because I can deal with people who are knowledgable about it. When I get something from a big box store and it breaks and I cannot find help, I assume the product is a piece of crap. Manufactures want their product sold and serviced in a certain way to maintain the best image for the product. Dealers can help with this (although they too are sometimes lousy).
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:35 am)From the article:
SH says, “It’s not convenient to charge but you still have the ability not to use gas ever.”
I completely disagree. Charging is way more convenient for me than
) and go to sleep. Next morning, I unplug the car and drive away. How much time did I lose doing this? 20 seconds? Couldn’t be more convenient if you asked me.
going to the gas station to pump gas.
With charging, I pull into my garage, pull the cord down from the ceiling and plug it in. I go into the house, eat, play with the kids then the wife (OK playing with the wife is wishful thinking
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:37 am)#14 Jim I
I believe GM will target California initially, because not only does CA have strict emissions targets, they have also passed legislation to limit CO2. With about 35 million people, and the mandates set for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, this will be one of the biggest markets for E-Flex.
The other initial target market seems to be Florida, with a few for DC and NY.
The one thing that I see in these two primary markets is a generally warm climate. So by focusing the first year’s production in these locales, GM buys more time to complete testing the Volt in more severe environments where snow, freezing rain, sub-zero temperatures, and other weather extremes are possible.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:42 am)“Ok, fellas. I’m going to put the big ball waaaay up here on this tee. Now once I move back five feet, you swing.”
Question: “Even though GM is being open and showing us the Volt program, there are those naysayers that say the Volt is a statement and that GM doesn’t really plan to sell Volts in high volumes. What is your comment about that?”
John Hughes: “Score! I’ll take that. I called it! Woohoo!”
Steve Wagg: “No, no, me, I hardly ever get to say anything”
Carolyn Normandin: “I’m a lady, me first”
John Hughes: “Please! Again with that Carol? I clearly called it!”
Ed Peper: “Kids! Simmer down! If you don’t behave I’ll make you talk to the guy in the lobby from Standard & Poor’s. Besides, I have the big office, so it’s mine.”
John Hughes: “Your right, you totally should. I’m sorry, please don’t remember this moment when you have to cut your team by a third!”
Carolyn Normandin: “Yes sir, and might I add your tie looks just as perfect as everything else here”
Steve Wagg: (mumble) “why don’t you just kiss his… “(mumble)
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:44 am)I’m OK with starting at low levels, and in regional markets, because GM’s entire existance is riding on this. I anticipate that every one of the initial production run will be “replaceable” meaning that if anything but minor problems comes up, GM is going to replace the entire vehicle. They have too much riding on it for anyone, anyone, to get burned in the first year. The minute Fox news has a story of someone who bought a Volt and it’s not working right, millions in marketing and development will be lost.
And because this vehicle is being developed so quickly with so little lead time, the odds that they will have to replace a vehicle to preserve the brand image is a lot higher than for any other vehicle they have launched since the Saturn.
The focus group thing…scares me. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they are a disaster that keeps on giving. Raiders of the Lost Ark was a movie. The third movie was the product of a focus group. What else do you need to know?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:50 am)Specialized servce? I’m sceptical when they start compairing the level of service skills for Corvettes & VOLTs. The VOLT is different but way less parts. How much training does it take to plug in the diagnostic connector, read the screen & replace the component. Maybe upgrades & patches for the operating software will be the most common service issues. Dealers have have been long know to develop there own methods of revenue enhancements.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:50 am)I have a question that I encourage ANYONE to answer.
Since the first production run is pretty much confirmed at 10,000 units and the first roll-outs will be in CA, FL, DC and NY, does that mean that each market will get 2,500? Or will California get preferential treatment and get more than the other markets? I would prefer the equal share distribution. Chime in, anybody?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (7:54 am)#22 Dr. Science;
Amen to that. I always find it amazing that I go into a dealership for one thing that I know is a problem, and they for some reason have the perception that I need to have 8 other things fixed for a nominal fee even though I’ve fixed them 3 weeks earlier. Now THAT’S price gouging.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:04 am)#23 Firefly
I would wager that California gets the bulk. All the advantages/disadvantages are there. (depending on how you see their emission regulations).
Plus, they have all the celebrities, lol.
(My guess)
A few for politicians, a few for the south and a couple thousand for the larget city in the US. The rest to California.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:05 am)I’m actually planning to buy this car, if it is practical. I don’t need to buy a car just to be an “early adapter” or to be especially “green.”
Even at $35,000 to $40,000 this car would make sense if:
1. It has at least a a 4 year 50,000 mile warranty, including routine service (per upscale cars such as BMW and Mercedes) and
2. in addition, it has at at least a 10 year warranty on its revolutionary drive train, including the battery.
3.I have no desire to lease the battery, as had been suggested. If I buy something I want to own it! The whole idea of a car like the Volt is to free oneself form dependence on outside sources of energy as much as possible. Leasing the battery replaces dependence on oil with another kind of dependence.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:06 am)22 Dr. Science:
Fewer parts sure, but how many of those techs have ever worked on an electric motor? A generator?
Don’t forget also the ICE will need normal servicing.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:07 am)Convenience is relative. If you are commuting and have power in your garage, it is very convenient. If, however, you are on a 14 day driving vacation, you might find that you are on range extender after the first 40 miles. There wont be any place to plug in to at the motels. At least there wont be for the first few years.
It looks like the Volt will be an electric commuter car and a high mileage gas car for touring.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:15 am)You can be sure that if a dealer in your area sells hybrid Tahoes or Yukons, they’re probably going to get a VOLT. The training will be quite similar. Of the 3800 dealers, I’d say maybe 2000 are hybrid trained/ready in their service/sales departments. But the best way to make sure your dealers get this vehicle is to call them. Call them and ask for the dealer principal or the general manager and ask them if they plan on getting the VOLT. Call them once a month until they finally tell you yes. The more requests they get, the more VOLTS will be constructed!
Chris
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:17 am)By the way,
Someone will be posting the official VOLT “preliminary specs list” in the design thread of the forum today. Just to let you guys know if it’s not there already.
Chris
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:18 am)The biggest problem with GM cars is the same with all cars, THE DEALERS! Like any other auto business the product maybe good but how is the service? I have first hand knowledge of that arena and most of the time I come away very disappointed in the service department and knowledge of the service person. How many service personnel take the time to learn what is needed to service and repair the current models being sold? The current models are complex machines and a trade school education is almost inadequate to be a service and repairperson. The complexity of the compoents is such that they replace instead of repair. Many times I know more about the vehicle then the person I am paying 65 an hour to work on it and due to warranty issues I have no choice so I ask your, are the dealers and their service departments going to be able to meet the needs of maintaining something like the Volt?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:22 am)Jay,
I would imagine that only the service departments that demonstrate skills with current hybrid models and high customer satisfaction surveys for service will be touching these vehicles at first, so I would say yes to your question. Without a doubt though, the best service experience a GM customer can get though is at Saturn.
Chris
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:41 am)Lyle — Wonderful interview. One gets a sense of who these marketing people are, how they are working on their assignment, and how they think.
Those interviewed show us vintage Chevrolet lowest-common-denominator marketing. I wonder if there is anyone who reads this site who is more enthusiastic about buying a Volt after reading the interview.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:50 am)32 Chris Rather than skills, dealer choices are likely to be made by overall Chevrolet sales volume. (Remember, this is about Chevy brand marketing.) These dealers have pull and will get a car in short supply. It’s a tremendous risk, because many of the high-volume dealers have just-get-it-out-quickly service depts, so the Volt can have a damaged reputation through bad service before any of the more competent dealers get one.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:54 am)I also disagree with the plugging in being inconvenient. I would so much rather plug in my car that drive to the gas station stand outside and breath in all the gasoline fumes that are known to cause cancer for about 5 min while you fill up. I remember when I lived in new england that it would be so cold it that it actually hurt to stand outside and fill up. Its still cold in a garage but you can plug a car in, in less than 10 seconds.
I also see in the future that the car will plug itself in. Just drive it onto a dock.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (8:58 am)Ahhh…the challanges of the dealership model. I wonder if GM could use CarMax?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:07 am)21 Eco
I enjoyed reading your comments about “replace the vehicle” but (after looking hard) I don’t see any sign of anything at all unusual in the interview. It looks to me like completely routine Chevy marketing, done in a completely routine just-another-Chevy-car way. Mr Peper and his colleagues are nice people, organizing focus groups to practice what to say and what not to say, thinking about the pitch to your average Joe or Jane. I think they see the Volt as just another Chevy brand, and wouldn’t you really rather have a Tahoe? They do not realize that the Volt is not an average car and could find immediate and strong acceptance with a group of customers who are far from the average for Chevy dealerships.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:09 am)12 BillR……
You say, “I’m glad to see that GM is considering E-Flex for other vehicles. I really see a better market for a mid-size sedan with 5 passenger seating than a smaller 4-seat econobox.”
I’m also glad GM will be using E-Flex on other larger vehicles, but not because the Volt will be a “4-seat econobox”! I’d guess that most posters here haven’t actually driven a ‘07 or ‘08 GM vehicle. Bob Lutz essentially DECREED a few years ago that all new GM cars would employ dramatically-upgraded interiors in terms of design, fit, finish & use of premium materials. As a rule of thumb, he insisted that GM spend roughly $500 MORE on interiors (at GM’s OEM cost, of course) —and most new GM vehicles now have these gorgeous interiors.
Also, I had a long conversation with both Tim Creig, the Volt interior designer and Tony Posawatz, the Volt Line Director, in NYC.They confirmed that the Volt would be a high-performance sports car —and would be one of the world’s first “4-door sports sedans” with FOUR bucket seats and TWO center consoles, and its interior would be both futuristic and luxurious. Believe me, the Volt will not be considered an “econobox” any more than a Corvette would be!
Most people, even gm-volt members, will be in for a very pleasant surprise!
PS: Great interview, Lyle!!!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:11 am)#20, Statik, LOL! And too true… Too true.
From the interview, “(SH) Yes. And also when you take a look for example at a Civic hybrid. While it does have a bench in the back, that’s not a place where you and I would want to spend a lot of time.”
Further proof that Chevy is delusional. The Civic hybrid is a low-volume, low-risk addition to an existing product line that sells in the very low $20K’s and which did not move much at all until gas prices shot up. At that price, most people would rather have a Prius. I wonder if GM’s people mostly just pretend the Prius doesn’t exist?
Looking at the Civic as a benchmark for anything and making decisions about a make-or-break the company (’s reputation) $40K car is lunacy.
GM is committed to this car, warts and all, and is now trying to rationalize it so they can feel good about their plans.
From the interview, “The other thing is too we’ve got to find a way to really produce these in high volumes so we can really make a huge difference.”
GM doesn’t know how to make large volumes of cars?
From the interview, “Lyle what is your sense in talking with your many many people that they think this vehicle is going to be priced at?”
They couldn’t figure the answer to this out by reading GM-Volt?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:13 am)The dealers that get a Volt will be the ones who also agree to take an extra 36 Tahoes or Silverados with it.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:14 am)Great interview, Lyle. Keep up the good work. GM is doing what they should be doing. Getting the planning done and moving from point to point to cover all the bases.
The only thing that does not excite me about the Volt is the time-line for release to the public. It is still too far in the future. We all need this vehicle now, but I know GM cannot work miracles.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:19 am)#40 dagwood 55
Yes, or another 200 Malibus. (Marketing Instruction: show them the Volt, and when they say it’s too expensive, sell them a Malibu)
Hope springs eternal, so maybe Chevy marketing will learn what they really have to sell, someday (and no, it’s not the hydrogen car…).
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:23 am)Rashiid has a very good point about price gouging. That is one other concern of mine that many of us have expressed. GM needs to find a way to force the dealers to sell the car at the suggested retail price and not gouge the customer. If I find gouging, I will leave that dealership immediately. If it is across the board at all dealers, I will not buy the Volt. I will not allow a dealer to gouge me just to buy the Volt. If it happens, I will not buy any GM vehicle. Period!
But, having said that, I believe there will be several other vehicles available that will give the potential Volt buyer other choices. They will not be a Volt, but they will be very good second choices. I will buy a second choice vehicle rather than be gouged.
I am trying to make myself well understood by any GM employee who may read this posting. I think we all should make the same statement.
WE WILL NOT STAND FOR DEALER VOLT PRICE GOUGING!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:28 am)FREE TEST DRIVES…GM should put at least 2 Volts at every dealership just prior to launching the product…and then mount a massive TV/ Radio/Print ad campaign inviting EVERYONE to contact a Chevy dealership for a FREE No Obligation test drive. Can you imagine how much excitement this would generate? Potentially just about everyone in the country could be exposed to the car in a non-threatening low-pressure environment…THIS WILL GENERATE SALES….AND EXCITEMENT!!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:35 am)23 firefly
Remember that we don’t know where the car will go, initially. CA, FL, NY, DC were mentioned by someone at GM on an earlier thread, but it was tentative. Most everyone sees the liklihood of CA, but beyond that we just don’t know.
43 N Riley
Stay cool, it’s just about finding a mutually acceptable price. Would you agree that most high-priced items have a negotiated price rather than a fixed price? Accepting that, when the salesman presents a high price, don’t get mad, just respond with a (much) lower offer. Negotiation is done best with complete good will and always with politeness. It is the salesman’s job to start with a high offer. The customer must start with a very low bid and then work up, very gradually. You might find common ground, but you have to be prepared to walk away until another day. It is a kind of auction. The Volt will apparently follow this standard model.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:39 am)For #6, 18 and 35, since you all had the same sentiment.
I believe what they weren’t saying–though I can’t be sure as they didn’t elaborate, wasn’t that the act of dragging a plug and pushing it into the car was inconvenient. I believe what they were referring to was what killed the EV1, that you drive X number of miles, say a sporting event 40 miles from your home and then you have to charge or get towed back. Its inconvenient to be forced to wait for the charging to complete.
I’m pretty sure the Volt is twice as fast to charge as the EV1, and its front loaded where the last 50% takes more then half the charge time, still if you were FORCED to wait for that to take place in order to travel, major irritation for most people.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:41 am)Cyclops:
Cust satisfaction and previous hybrid training will be a huge deciding factor as i stated, but yes, sales will also come into play. I would say that, specifically, Malibu sales would probably come into play, and Impala ones… vehicles of that size mostly. Either way, it’ll be some time before you’ll see more than 1 on a lot at any given time. I live in Canada and I’ve yet to even see one of those hybrids, other than the day I sat through GM’s seminar on these vehicles at my place of work. I don’t think our dealers have them.
Chris
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:46 am)My preferred dealership already sells the “hybrid” line…so I don’t think they will have a problem of upgrading their service staff to be able to look after the Volt…
GM…. Let me know when I can get my Volt (central Alberta, Canada) and I will tell you the dealership…..
I want my Volt and darn soon too…
Ray
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:50 am)#35 brad
Plugging your car in at night will become routine…
Time to go to bed… let the dogs and cat in…. garage doors down…
plug in car… make sure doors are locked… plug in cellphone… brush teeth… go to bed…
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:54 am)#36 Jeff says “Ahhh…the challanges of the dealership model. I wonder if GM could use CarMax?”
Why not Walmart… Hell, Walmart would probably do the financing for you too. Put the down payment on your credit card then Walmart would bill you monthly. They ship the car straight from GM to your home or you could do instore pick-up.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (9:55 am)What’s all the fuss about convenience in recharging? There ar already electric car charging stations in a number of locations and electric outlets are cheap and easy to provide anywhere. As soon as the Volts start hitting the road, you will see charging stations popping up everywhere.
Also, I don’t understand the fuss about a four place car being too small. The vast majority of cars on the road only have one occupant, although most owners say that they want a four place car. I think GM has hit it just right.
Frankly, I think GM is doing an excellent job in bringing out the Volt. If they come out with a price of $35000 and the government gives us a $5000 rebate, that brings it down to $30000 which is high, but not too high.
Right now, the public thinks that plug-in electric cars are sci-fi and that battery technology won’t allow them to be a reality for years, if ever. Also, they remember the EV-1 and think it was an overpriced, underpowered toy (2 place). When the Volt comes out, people will begin to realize that 1) it is real and it is here now; 2) It is a REAL car – 4 place with performance figures comparable to their gas guzzlers; 3) it is vastly cheaper to operate that the gas guzzlers; 4) They will be amazed to find out that is is also extremely quiet, requires virtually no maintenance, is a viable alternative to petroleum and is environmentally friendly. As soon as that begins to sink in, GM won’t be able to build them fast enough.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:08 am)The best thing that they can do for marketing is SHOW US THE VEHICLE.
JMO,
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:29 am)One point that no one has raised is that electric cars are great for a commuter if you don’t need to much air or heat because the pull up and stop is great for electric systems. Just make sure you have a separate radio or other entertainment while you set and wait to move forward. Of course you could sell those large houses in the burb’s and move closer to work were trains, buses or you bicycle can be utilized, go live in Europe as I did and work for awhile. Your hold perspective or how you live will change.
The other point is it’s time to look at your life style and make hard decisions as to how you and your family will survive in the coming years, because things are not going to get cheaper! Gas will never be $2.50 a gallon again. How much of your disposable income can go to commuting cost and associated transportation requirements and can you afford the higher cost of utilities that is coming? Projections are that utilities will double within ten years or less. Happy commuting.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:32 am)I think come rollout time that GM has a marketing opportunity to take advantage of the legacy of the EV-1. The Volt specific ad campaign should emphasize that the Volt is the now timely successor to the pioneer EV-1 that suffered the fate of being built before its time, and now rises phoenix like as the “EV-2” from its ashes. And as the EV-1’s successor, the Volt addresses and advances on the shortcomings of the EV-1 which contributed to its niche market appeal and early demise, e.g. limited range and capacity, cost, battery technology, etc.
Not only does this allow GM marketing to capitalize on the fame and cache of the EV-1 legend already in place because of the movie, it finally offers redemption for GM’s reputation, which now suffers the infamy of killing off the EV-1 and all the potential it represented. This is now its resurrection. It also distinguishes the Volt first and foremost as an electric car with a lineage, and distances it from the overall “hybrid” genre which invites simple price comparisons with its competitors.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:35 am)#53 jay says ” Projections are that utilities will double within ten years or less. Happy commuting.”
The question is “How long will people take it until they stand up to the government and the green weenies and say enough!”
You want utility prices to stay down… Build more nuclear and clean burning coal power plants.
The government and green weenies can’t have it both ways. You want electric cars not gas, but you don’t want more power plants… give me a break…
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:38 am)This may have come up previously, but has GM considered offering a solar charger that doubles as a windshield shade as an accessory? I could see a fold-able thin film solar charger that would plug into the cigarette lighter and provide a trickle charge all day while at work. That could perhaps add a few miles to the electric range. Don’t know how that works with the current battery technology.
Lyle, your thoughts?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:41 am)mien green@54
I totally disagree with using ANY association to the EV-1. I wish that “EV-1″ would automatically send posts into moderation (at least), GM screwed the pooch on the EV-1 and they know it. Public opinion re that STILL festers like a weeping sore.
Please, no more EV-1. Toyota could use it well though.
Be well.
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:48 am)@ 56
This is the single biggest feature upgrade I would like to see.
I certainly have brought up the same thing myself on here when they have the “suggestions to GM” threads.
In the recent Lutz interview he alluded to that, though I don’t know how committed to the idea they are for the 2010 model.
I would go so far as to suggest that in later versions why stop at just a windshield shade when you could have this cover descend from an enclosed panel from the roof like a window rises from the door? These panels could cover most, if not all of the cars windows, and with the California sun that is a lot of surface area.
Sure it may be only a few more miles, but that’s a few more free miles. Not to mention it would save on having to cool the cabin down.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (10:59 am)Tagamet-
Don’t deny its existence; embrace it as a noteworthy GM accomplishment. This can be redemption for GM’s tarnished reputation.
The abuse of the subject on this website is another issue entirely.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:02 am)@ #43 N Riley:
>> WE WILL NOT STAND FOR DEALER VOLT PRICE GOUGING!
ECHO THAT. It’s going to be pricey enough to start. And I believe that as GMs manufacturing costs drop (as volume ratchets up and economies of scale kick in), we’re a *lot* more likely to see rising profit margins, than we are to see dropping MSRPs.
Note to Chevy dealers: I have other options, rather than to be gouged. Therefore, I refuse!
BTW, I just emailed my the GM at my local Chevy dealer, to ask what they’re doing vis-a-vis preparation to sell the Volt. I also passed along Ed Peper’s indication that dealers won’t be allocated Volts to sell if their service departments aren’t ready to service them. It’ll be interesting to see what the response (if any!) will be. I encourage others to email their dealers, too.
BTW, I did the same for my local electric utility, the mighty We Energies, about four months ago. That message was oriented toward electric car charging demands, and what they were doing to their infrastructure, to become prepared for such effects. I never heard a damn thing back from them. Not exactly spectacular “good preparation for the future” -or- “good PR,” if you ask me!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:03 am)All this talk about price gouging via dealers… There is a simple solution! I just bought a Saturn and it was the most pleasant car buying experience of my life! I knew what the car cost going into the dealership. I had done my homework and considered it a great buy. It could not have been easier. I payed one ~$100 dealer fee for the paperwork to get it licensed. Even the destination and delivery charge was included in the sticker price!!! The Saturn model works for both customer and dealer. I think Chevy should adopt this model for the Volt.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:05 am)mein green@59
I’m not denying it’s existence, but why open on open wound even wider.
With the notable exception of Statik, the vast majority of the people on this site are FANS and yet there are many vitupritve posts about the EV-1.
It’d be like a tourist ad for Germany saying “From the people who brought you the holocaust”
Be well,
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:09 am)Brett@61
I’m pretty sure that the Saturn dealerships don’t have *quite* the lopsided supply/demand thats likely to accompany the Volt.
Be well,
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:10 am)Imagine what punk kids will be doing in 5 years. “hey guys, let’s go out at night and unplug everyone’s cars on our street! tee hee hee!”
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:16 am)@ #61 Brett,
I bought two new Saturn SL2’s, a 1992 and a 1997. They were both great cars! I got 37MPG on the highway with those cars and they were fun to drive. It was also the best treatment and service I ever got from a car dealership. And no price haggling, a process I can do, but that annoys me considerably.
Why GM hasn’t extended Saturn’s business model to its other brands’ throats years ago, I’ll never know.
BTW it really saddens me what they’re doing to Saturn these days. Why don’t they just call it “Opel West” already. Geez.
And… as long as I’m already ranting… I miss those plastic body panels, dang it!!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:26 am)Tag:
You can’t use words like “vitupritve” on this site……… I am pretty sure there is a rule somewhere about that!
From the syntax, I knew what you meant, but I have to admit, I had to go and look it up on dictionary.com
Now to the topic:
I think that GM needs to show the Volt as a totally NEW vehicle, not a re-tooled EV-1.
It is not like they are trying to hide the EV-1 anymore than they try to hide the fact that they built and sold the Vega. I just do not think it is relevant to the marketing of the Volt.
The Volt is the future! That is how it should be sold.
JMHO
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:29 am)Brad G #55, says, “You want utility prices to stay down… Build more nuclear and clean burning coal power plants.”
I respectfully disagree. Perfect solar energy collection (in the neighborhood of 80% or so) and make it dirt cheap to buy. Then everyone can put it on their roof top.
BTW, I’m not a greenie, as you call them, I just don’t see any point to harming the environment any more than we already have.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:29 am)I’m hoping that GM is working with other companies to develop a WIRELESS charging system for the Volt’s batteries … yes, wireless charging. No long extension cords that you have to remember to plug in at night. This technology is actually ALREADY available for power tools, laptops, etc. They say it will scale up from milliwatts to kilowatts safely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwVQ3w3ZTM
http://www.ecoupled.com/technologyMain.html
I think it would be great to be able to pull your Volt into the garage and have sensors AUTOMATICALLY detect it and either start charging it right away or set it to charge at 11pm at night or whenever … when the electricity is the cheapest. A dash light would come on in your Volt saying “set to charge” or “charging now”, etc.
This would be a totally safe, no brainer, automatic charging system. If it’s cheap enough, a bunch of employers might could use this technology for their employees while their Volts are in the parking tower or wherever. It would be great for super busy people or little old ladies or teenagers.
It would eliminate an objection to buying a Volt. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear about people being turned off by the Volt purely because they have to remember to plug it in at night. Some people are like that. They don’t want to change their usual habits with their car.
This technology would prevent a lot of unnecessary gasoline from having to be burned by the IC engine range extender. The idea is to maximize the miles that everyone runs on electricity. It’s better for the person’s wallet AND it’s better for societal reasons like pollution, global warming, oil addiction, energy independence, not funding Middle East oil shieks and their terrorist buddies, etc.
Maybe someday, the system will be able to pull cheap nighttime electricity off the grid (or your solar panels during the day), store it in cheap “garage batteries” and then quick charge your Volt battery in 15 minutes or less … at ANY time of the day at cheap rates.
That would be very cool and it wouldn’t have an effect on the electric utilities because of “peak loads” and all that. It’s those “peak loads” that drive the building of new power plants … some of which might be polluting coal plants in some countries. It might be expensive at first for this technology though. Wealthy people would buy it and like HDTVs, the prices would come down in a few years once mass production kicks in.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:33 am)Jim I@66,
RE: “vitupritve” – same root as vitriolic.
I know, totally off topic, but I love words. When moonshiners made their hootch (E100) they tested the purity by burning a teaspoonful and timing the burn. If the flame had a blue “beard”, that was from vitriol (also called “popskull”) that would lead to a huge hang-over.
And now you know the Rest of the story….
Be well,
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:34 am)#62 Tag
“With the notable exception of Statik, the vast majority of the people on this site are FANS…”
HEY! I resemble that remark, lol. But you are absolutely right! I’m not a fan. I’m a customer. Huge difference.
In my business we have a name for a customer that is also a fan…it’s a sucker.
If you don’t believe me, try this:
Go to your local Chevy dealership and sit in a new Corvette in the show room, and tell the salesman how great it is, and how it is the best sportscar ever, a game changer. Tell him how you have been putting off other car purchases and saving up for it and can you have one now. Then ask him for his best deal…see what you get.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:42 am)Boom… Statik on #70 with another big hit to deep center field !!!
Well stated sir.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:43 am)Statik@70
Just checking to see if you were there (g). The person you describe as a sucker is actually just plain STOOO-PID. Maybe you’d consider getting my name on LOCAL dealerships’ waiting lists makes me a sucker. So be it. I loved our house when I first saw it, but I didn’t sing it’s praises to the realtor.
Be well,
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:43 am)#70 Static
Do you use this approach on women as well? lol.
Still lol!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:46 am)#45 RB
I agree a salesman will start with a “high” offer. Generally somewhere under the sticker price or at the sticker price. That is expected. But not several thousand dollars over the sticker price.
I do no intend to get angry with the salesman or the dealership. I will make a counter offer at the sticker price or lower and wait for their new price. If I still am getting gouged, I will tell the sales manager that I do not plan to pay that kind of markup and then I will leave.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:47 am)66 Tagamet & 66 Jim I:
Well see, you and I differ on this. I see the EV-I as a noble predecessor to the Volt, and its heritage ought to be acknowledged and celebrated. To offer up the Volt in this context I think would invite closure to all the festering bitterness and vitriol invoked by the movie. GM made a mistake, and here is their reparation.
“Holocaust” may be a bit extreme by way of analogy, don’t you think? Maybe clubbing baby seals or harpooning whales might be more appropriate for your point?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:48 am)Hmm, it sounds like contrary to other reports that GM hasn’t decided on the geographic roll out… so maybe I’ll have a (slim) chance to see one in a showroom in the 1st year after all!
Lyle, you may want to check that your apostrophe key is working…. I count at least 4 places where you wrote “were” where it should be “we’re”.
For those worried about dealerships price gouging… I really don’t think you’ll see that be wide spread if at all. In any case, assuming your guess is right… I see it as actually a good thing for both the dealerships and GM. GM dealerships I imagine have been struggling so they could use the “small” boost, and it also shows GM the demand (if it exists at the $40k price point) and maybe they’ll produce even more (assuming the battery maker(s) can supply) in the 1st couple years than currently planned.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:50 am)#67 Rashiid Amul
Brad G #55, says, “You want utility prices to stay down… Build more nuclear and clean burning coal power plants.”
I respectfully disagree. Perfect solar energy collection (in the neighborhood of 80% or so) and make it dirt cheap to buy. Then everyone can put it on their roof top.
=============
Rashiid,
It will take Nuclear, Solar and Wind and I’m on board with all three. We must start nuclear power plants now to supplement the grid while we wait for wind to become a bigger player and solar to become cheap enough to mass produce cells. Its the same arguement we have with the non-Volt fans saying why not wait for hydrogen. Last thing, I prefer nuclear over coal because of the emissions issue.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:54 am)mein green,
Given the level of anger associated with “that car”, i actually toned down my comment TO holocaust.
Be well,
Tag
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:54 am)“Its not convenient to charge but you still have the ability not to use gas ever.”
Shows right there GM needs to train it’s management on how convenient charging an electric car is versus driving to the gas station, worrying if the price will spike ridiculously overnight, and out of your control.
The simple ease of plugging in at home, and unplugging before you leave is a thousand times better than ever going to a gas station. He’s not very well informed to be the head of PR and marketing with old time ignorant thinking like that.
Plus does it seem to anyone else that GM is thinking WAAAAAY to into this when they have Harvard think tanks helping them come up with special ways to help consumers understand the technoligy.
Is the public really that retarded? Why not advertise a vehicle that for 80% or more of your daily driving you will not use any gasoline. Even the weakest inbred mind can comprehend that one.
Just hurry up and build the car.
For some reason I cannot stop coming back to this website to be annoyed, yet infomed of every mundane detail of a vehicle that is the better part of three years away.
2 3/4 more years of this, yikes.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (11:59 am)Joe OBrien@79
Kinda like watching a wreck in slow motion (though I think it’ll turn out better)
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:00 pm)Rashiid @ 7,
I agree entirely that GM being legally bound to offer Volts through its dealers is going to hit consumers in the pocketbook…what a stupid contract clause.
If dealers get too expensive (and go too far about the MSRP), I’ll walk in a heartbeat.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:10 pm)Brad G #77 says, “It will take Nuclear, Solar and Wind and I’m on board with all three.”
I’m with you on the last two. But I have question about Nuclear.
By the time it takes to put a Nuclear power plant into operation (from permit stage to providing power for customers) can the solar scientists make large strides in solar energy collection? I honestly have no idea how long it takes to put up a Nuclear power plant.
I favor solar over wind because I see solar as more reliable.
What I mean is: Where I live we have more sunny days than windy days.
The ONLY reason I am not fond of Nuclear is because of the waste product. Otherwise, I’m all for it.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:13 pm)I’d like to second Brett (#61) and Mike-O-Matic (#65) about Saturn. I left a similar rant to Mike’s on another thread, only I called the “New” Saturn, “American Opel.” I’ve had 2 SL2s, and never regretted purchasing them, was never tempted to take them anywhere else for service.
As the frequent reader of this site knows full well, GM has more than one hurdle to overcome: they’re addressing one with the Volt, but the dealer experience is still a huge potential stumbling block.
If I have to wait anyway, maybe I’ll wait for the Saturn E-Flex variant (hope it evolves somewhat away from the “Flextreme” concept: who needs onboard Segway chargers? Give me more range instead. And make the diesel only an option, please. HCCI would be better
).
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:14 pm)Instead of the Chevy Volt how about the Saturn Amp?
It only one year to turn the Pontiac Soltice into the Saturn Sky…
Now make the Soltice or Sky an EV… OH YEAH BABY!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:15 pm)#52
The best thing that they can do for marketing is SHOW US THE VEHICLE.
JMO,
Tag
A first step…2nd step. The best marketing is WORD OF MOUTH which is slang for “a well built car”.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:19 pm)RB #45 says, “Accepting that, when the salesman presents a high price, don’t get mad, just respond with a (much) lower offer. Negotiation is done best with complete good will and always with politeness. It is the salesman’s job to start with a high offer. The customer must start with a very low bid and then work up, very gradually. You might find common ground, but you have to be prepared to walk away until another day. It is a kind of auction”
RB, this is sound advise unless the customer standing behind you has a sign on his head saying he will pay full price or more for the car.
I think the dealers are not going to be able to keep the Volt in the showroom and as such, will gouge the heck out of it.
A regular person like you, N. Riley, me and others, won’t stand a chance.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:20 pm)#74 N Riley
In your negotiating, you were doing great until the step where you said “I will tell the sales manager that I do not plan to pay that kind of markup and then I will leave.”
Instead of doing that, try telling the sales manager how much you love the car, that you are heartbroken that you will not be able to buy it that day, but all you could possibly offer on that particular day would be your original offer plus $400, and you have to go home right then to see your wife and children who are waiting for you, and you’ll think about whether you could come up with anything more, when you have time, but you are very busy. And leave.
They may make a better offer by the time you reach the door, and if not they will be calling you again in a few days “Has Mr Riley bought a car yet? No. “Well what we have found a way to do is…” This is just how they do negotiating. It takes a while. Be polite, and patient. Let the salesman, on a cold rainy lonesome day, think about the fact that someone is out there nearby who really loves a car he has to sell. They may be able to do much better; give them a chance. One thing in your favor is that many times the incentives for salesmen are in terms of total numbers sold, not price, so the salesman really can be on your side.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:23 pm)#82 Rashiid Amul
You have to pick one… Coal or Nuclear…
Coal = Emissions and the scaring of mother earth
Nuclear = Waste but new breeder reactors use the waste of other plants
You have to have a backup for the nights the wind is not blowing… And how long it takes to permit the power plants from our government is what I’m talking about… What good is a Volt if we are paying $1 / kwh
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:26 pm)#86
Sounds like you are expecting something similar to the “IPhone craze”. Have you seen the price expected for the new IPhone? Apple & ATT got all of the $500+ buyers…or people came to their senses.
It can pay to not be first…
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:26 pm)#84, Brad G says, ”
Instead of the Chevy Volt how about the Saturn Amp?
It only one year to turn the Pontiac Soltice into the Saturn Sky…
Now make the Soltice or Sky an EV… OH YEAH BABY!”
OH YEAH BABY is right!!!! How cool would that be. However, I wonder if they would charge double for it.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:28 pm)Brad G # 88 says, “What good is a Volt if we are paying $1 / kwh?”
No good, my friend. No good.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:30 pm)#90 Rashiid Amul
Now make the Soltice or Sky an EV… OH YEAH BABY!”
OH YEAH BABY is right!!!! How cool would that be. However, I wonder if they would charge double for it.
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I don’t know but it might be worth it….
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:30 pm)82 Rashiid:
The last nuclear reactor built is still operating off Naval technologies from the early 50’s. From Pebble Bed reactors to Breeder Reactors that produce their own fuel to burn all the way up to Thorium (and thus don’t produce “waste” per se) the technology has come a LONG way since 1950. GE and Westinghouse are the leaders in all these fields.
Solar energy collection is still a long way off. Lab conditions experimentally they have gotten up to 50% or a little higher but none of those technologies have panned out to mass production. Nanosolar is the best we have and they focused on bringing down manufacturing costs. Nanosolar panels (Production sold out for the next two years) are produced at just under $1/watt but are no more efficient power generation wise as your typical thin film or rack mount.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:30 pm)#87 RB
Maybe that approach will work and maybe it will not. Generally, I always leave open the possibility that I will continue to be interested in a vehicle, but not necessarily at the last price quoted. I have had dealers call later and offer a little better price. But, as said by others here, the Volt will be in great demand and the dealer will feel that it is a seller’s market. And, you know what happens with a seller’s market. Take today’s price of gasoline as an example. The seller’s market will probably continue for up to 5 years with the Volt, certainly 3 years.
If I have no success with the dealer, I will let you come down and give me a hand. Maybe we can both ‘work on” them. I wish everyone a lot of luck when it comes time to purchase their Volt.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:31 pm)Jeff #89.
I do actually. Dealers do have a history of this.
Mazda Miata,
VW Beetle (the new one)
Prius 2-3 years ago.
Just to name a few that I remember off the top of my head.
I believe the Volt will be the exact same thing when sold through the dealers……unfortunately.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:31 pm)#86 Rashid
I agree that if the person standing next to you is willing to pay more, then that person will get the car. One has to be willing to pay the market rate, not some hypothetical fixed price, because big items never have a fixed price, just a possible starting point. Dealers are just that, trying to make a living by buying at one price and selling for a little more, hoping to get cars that are popular, fully able to look at all the details of incentives and service dept income etc.
When a dealer knows there is someone someone willing to buy a car, the dealer tries to find one to sell them. Putting this differently, it is so hard to get people to make offers of any amount that if you have one or a few who have done it, it is a dealer’s dream — real people offering real money, ready to buy, now.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:32 pm)To all who are are looking for an E-Flex SUV or large sedan, you may have to wait a while. Heavy vehicles like these will require much larger batteries, which will cost much more.
For example, GM takes a $15K Cobalt, makes it E-Flex, and it becomes a $40K Volt. Using this factor, if you take a $28K Trailblazer, that would become a $75K E-Flex SUV. Since most people can’t afford $75K, GM won’t be making these for a while.
What can be done easily is to change the body style without significantly adding weight. For example, if you took the Opel Astra Station Wagon and made it E-Flex, that would probably work with the same drive train as the Volt.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:33 pm)Brad G # 88 says, “What good is a Volt if we are paying $1 / kwh?”
Well, it would look sharp in your driveway.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:34 pm)Morgan #93. Thank you for the explanation. I had no idea the Nuclear power plants were that old.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:36 pm)#95 Rashiid Amul:
Actually, there is a 3 month wait for the Prius right now, so it’s back to where it was 2-3 years ago.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:38 pm)#100. I didn’t realize that. And that is exactly how I see the Volt.
Are the dealers marking up the Prius by a lot?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:39 pm)Rashiid,
it is not that nuclear power plants are that old, it is that the technology in use in them is based on old technology. That is because we have not been building nuclear plants since the 80’s. A lot of things have changed for the better with nuclear technology. The U.S. just haven’t been allowed to take advantage of the advancements. With about 30 new plants on the drawing board, hopefully that will change.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:40 pm)Rashiid #95
If so, hopefully the extra bucks are used wisely for items to support the E-REV system at the dealerships.
- Training (Techs and Salespeople)
- Tools
etc.
Dealerships can kill a great vehicle if they do not embrace it.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:40 pm)If it comes down to a “regional rollout,” Firefly, you know what that will mean.
Yep. We’ll be last. Again.
No one holds more dearly than the Big Corporation to the Southeast Region Stereotype: Crackers can’t/won’t deal with new technolgy unless they can haul pigs in the back.
Florida is exempt because of all the Yankees that moved there.
I live North of Atlanta, in some of the consistently worst stop-and-go traffic in the country, where it’s mostly warm, and there are frequent air quality issues. None of that will matter.
If it comes down to “regional rollout,” we’ll be last on the list. Wait and see.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:41 pm)99. Rashiid:
The plants aren’t necessarily that old but the technology in the design behind them is. I think (and I may easily be corrected on this) that the last commissioned nuclear reactor was in 1985 or so.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:43 pm)#17 nucboy:
I would be really interested to see whare you saw GM’s announcement of the 40 mpg Cobalt. I have heard the rumors, but I haven’t seen it oficially anywhere. If they do it, I will buy one and drive it until I can get a Volt.
#25 Statik:
I hope so, LOL,
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:44 pm)#104 Jackson
Hey, I resemble that comment. I live in Madison, Mississippi (just outside of Jackson – the state capitol). Everyone considers us backwater, until they visit and find out it is not so. Why, most people don’t even have pigs in their front yards any longer.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:46 pm)N. Riley, #102 says, “With about 30 new plants on the drawing board, hopefully that will change.”
Let’s assume they can get built. Do you know how long it can take for one of those to start providing power to customers?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:49 pm)#105 Morgan says “The plants aren’t necessarily that old but the technology in the design behind them is. I think (and I may easily be corrected on this) that the last commissioned nuclear reactor was in 1985 or so.”
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The scary thing is there is an operating life on a nuclear plant then it has to be shut down. Does anybody know exactly what the time is? I think it’s 40 years so in the 10 years we will actually start see the older nuclear power plants go offline.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:51 pm)Jackson , #104. I live in New England, and I don’t see the south like that at all. My experiences down there have been excellent.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:53 pm)#108 Rashiid
We have one existing plant at Grand Gulf on the Mississippi River in central section of the state. They have one other that I believe has been approved for the same site. When the existing plant was built it may have been the last one in the country it was designed to have two units. I think the second unit will be on-line in about 5 years. I believe all approvals have been granted except any court challenges that may come up.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:53 pm)#72 Tag
“Statik…Just checking to see if you were there”
Of course I am, Toyota pays me good money to…er, I mean I am on the computer alot for my other work….
#73 George K
“Do you use this approach on women as well? lol.”
Naturally. Flowering them up with nonsense never works. But give the ladies a well placed ‘constructive critique’ or point out what they are saying is nonsense and they are on you like flies.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:55 pm)Rashiid #110
It may be that Southerners may exhibit a inferiority complex but down deep (actually just below skin deep) we know we are far superior.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:56 pm)We can’t drill for new oil because “it will take 10 – 15 years” before it starts flowing.
We can’t build new Nukes because “just the licensing can take a decade.”
We can’t put Solar everywhere because “it’ll take 10 years for the costs to come down.”
We can’t make a major shift to Ethanol because it’ll take a decade before cellulosic refining takes hold.
I wonder, do we really think that we’re not going to need those resources in 10 years?!!! We must. Otherwise how can you explain all that irritating noise coming from Congress?
Sound-to-electricity conversion; that’s the ticket. Install them in DC, and we’re set.
Oh, and N. Riley, about there being fewer pigs in people’s front yards … speak for yourselves.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:56 pm)112 Statik:
“Naturally. Flowering them up with nonsense never works. But give the ladies a well placed ‘constructive critique’ or point out what they are saying is nonsense and they are on you like flies.”
That only works if they find you attractive. If they don’t its a restraining order and possibly jail
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Jun 25th, 2008 (12:58 pm)Statik says:
“Naturally. Flowering them up with nonsense never works. But give the ladies a well placed ‘constructive critique’ or point out what they are saying is nonsense and they are on you like flies.”
I know what happens when you treat “ladies” like that. I would not want to be on the receiving end of those “flies”.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:05 pm)#114 Jackson
I agree. I agree. I agree. All points well made. Well, except for the pigs. I find they leave the yard too bumpy rooting around like they do. I keep goats in mine. They keep the grass trimmed, when they can find any. And you don’t have to worry about recycling all that yard trash like coke and beer cans. That’s just dessert for a goat. Now, if we could harness all the bull shi*t we are spouting, we could out do congress. No, that would be impossible. No one can out bull shi*t a congressman or senator, except a presidential candidate.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:05 pm)<>
I don’t think so. I don’t think the majority of the people I know outside of work have even heard of the EV-1 (or at least don’t remember it). Maybe with prompting you might get an “oh, yeah . . .”
Of course, most of the people I know aren’t the “green” set. Some are more environmentally conscious than others, but most are far more concerned about their wallets to pay more than a minimal mark-up for environmental reasons.
Quite a few want to get away from dependence on foreign oil. All for economic reasons (even if they (and I) don’t understand all the economics). And many because they think it leads to us getting involved where we shouldn’t, and American soldiers dying. That’s a good angle to promote, if they handle it carefully enough not to offend masses of people.
I’m a computer programmer, and quite a few co-workers (programmers, DBAs, etc.) are definitely in the early-adopter set. But my family and other people I know (truck-drivers, postal workers, office workers, welders, etc.) will have to be sold on this vehicle. They will need to know how much money it will save them. And they need to know how the long the batteries will last. A really good warranty will help here, because most people say the batteries won’t last more than 10 years (at most, some think far less time) and will cost $10,000 to replace (more than many 10-year-old cars are even worth). The same logic also says even if you don’t keep the vehicle that long (and most of us don’t), no one would ever buy a used one and it’d kill any resale value you had (as would newer, better, battery technology, but that’s a completely separate issue).
Now, most of my family live far enough away that we’re going to have to use the ICE (mostly we’re about 35 miles from work), so we’re not exactly the target set. And if you live 10 miles from work you aren’t spending as much on gas. I figure they’ll market it at the 35-mile-round-trip set, since they seem to benefit the most. But to convince my non-tecchy relatives, they are going to need to appeal to the pocketbook and convince them they aren’t going to have huge battery replacement costs in a few years.
Anyway, for their best bet, I say market the cost savings, convenience of fewer stops (or none, but we out in the sticks would be rolling our eyes because it doesn’t apply to us), market not depending on foreign oil, and, given the attitude I’ve most frequently seen from friends and family, they might want to do a little “no more money for big oil companies” type stuff, too. But until they have a longer range, I’m not sure how they’ll take off with the longer-commute set (I know we’re a minority). Stopping for gas less doesn’t have the same psychological impact that not stopping for gas has. And, given the price, people with longer commutes might feel better about buying a 4-cylinder and waiting for that longer-electric-range vehicle.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:09 pm)When people actually travel to the Deep South, they frequently find that the stereotypes are at least overblown. When people insulated in Northern boardrooms make economic decisions, their first impulses, however laughable, have often worked against us.
My Mother worked for a large Northern corporation. She found again and again that employees transferring to the SE Regional offices had dreaded the move, only to find out later how wonderful it was to live here, and then refused to go back.
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Plant Vogtle, in middle Georgia, recently announced a third unit would be built. I think there are a lot more new nukes in the offing than people think.
The Southern Company has proven itself very canny at anticipating future energy growth, here.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:14 pm)I’m puzzled price is an issue. On one hand some people are fussing about the price. On the other some are concerned about availability. Price will balance the supply with the demand, and, assuming there will be a lot of demand for this car — and I think there will be — lower prices will come as GM increases supply. The only other alternative is a long wait list.
I’d just rather have GM get the income than the dealers since that would be more likely to result in more similar cars. Since I think GM would prefer this as well I’m assuming the price for the initial run will be set accordingly. GM can drop the price in subsequent years.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:15 pm)#118 Rebecca
Well said. Many good points not previously discussed. Even living 35 miles out you would still benefit from the 100 – 150 mpg when gas plus electric is considered. You trip in would be electric and many places will allow you to recharge during the day. Most companies will get on the band wagon, especially to keep good programmers, etc. I am one myself, except now I am the company’s CIO.
I have friends and relatives just like what you described. That is why I think it will take 15 to 20 years, maybe longer to see a real conversion to electric. People are just stubborn and hard headed.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:16 pm)84 Brad G, 90 Rashiid Amul…..
Great idea, guys!!!!
ATTN GM: Rebadge the Volt as a Saturn “AMP”!!! (The 3-letter name “AMP” works great with Saturn’s 3-letter “VUE” & “SKY” models) …..and besides, Saturn customers would prefer buying an AMP rather than a VOLT because it’s less shocking when you’re NOT “price gouged” by the dealer. Plus, GM could update the Volt’s design to make the AMP a little more current!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:27 pm)107 N Riley
I’ve been to your neck of the woods…Madison is a nice place.
I would guess the pigs are no longer in the front yard because they down at the methane plant with gas prices so high. Just kidding
GM needs to offer 120VAC outlets in the VOLT (or VOLT truck) to get the rural crowd on board. Maybe advertise it as a “good fishing” car with an electrical generator that would make TVA drool in envy. And firearm rack in the rear window would sell a few more too.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:27 pm)…proof positive that there are still Nerds at Nasa!
…now, let’s “press on,” shall we?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:30 pm)Since the Sale people at GM might review this thread, a few notes.
1) What is inconvenient….waiting in line at Costco for 10 minutes to spend another 10 minutes pumping gas. As prices go up more people shop even to save a few $.01’s a gallon & lines get longer.
2) Get some video of the long lines /waits then show a person driving their Volt into garage & spending all of about 15 seconds to plug in.
3) Show someone pumping 40 miles worth of gas or 1.3 gallons at current rates ($4.55/gallon regular) and then an electric meter showing KWh used after charging the volt & its comprable cost, under a buck.
4) Or how about the inconvenience of SMOGS effect on people with asthma etc.. & health in general compared to zero emissions first 40 miles of a Volt
5) Or the inconvenience of being at the mercy of countries that don’t like the USA or its way of life and freedoms.
6) Or the inconvenience of American servicemen & women dying in the midst of a civil war to stabilize Iraq & its oil industry
7) But don’t tell me about the inconvience of plugging in my Volt. Sounds like the PR/Sales team of GM needs a pep talk!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:31 pm)#123 Jeff
Yes, Madison is a nice place. Thanks for the kind words. Next time let me know you are coming and I’ll get the goat’s milk good and cold.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:35 pm)#119 Jackson
You’re very much correct about your post. As an african-american (my official classification as I am 1/4 Hatian, 1/4 Blackfoot, 1/4 Choctaw, 1/4 French and that takes too much paper in Birmingham) I have found the same to be true. So many people have negative connotations about the south. But the lingering scent of racism and lack of education is extremely overexaggerated. We pretty much get along here. Atlanta is our sister city and we have many of the same concepts, although Atlanta has taken them a lot further (props to the ATL). We have many educated, qualified technicians here. Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana (where I’m originally from) and Georgia are very competitive in the technical fields. Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz, Kia, Saturn and GM have plants down here. If southerners can build vehicles as well as or better than anyone else, then it would stand to reason that our techs here can easily be trained to service a Volt. I’m not saying that we’re more worthy than CA as we’re all the same country. I can only hope that when everyone who desires a Volt has purchased one, I encourage you to take a visit down here and observe a little southern hospitality. Hopefully by that time I can convince the hotel chains here to put 220 volt recepticles for your cars.
Point made-I’ll go to Florida to buy one. I’ll go to DC or CA if I have to, but please don’t discount the level of automotive technical skill of the southeastern region, or their anticipation for the Volt as well.
And Jackson, I’m a little jealous of you in Atlanta where Southern Companies seems to be a little more progressive towards renewable energy. In Alabama, they were totally opposed to net metering for PV electric residential systems. They actually think it’s better to keep burning the large supply of coal we have here in the ground. Get that..
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:36 pm)The plugging in thing is not a problem for me. I plug in my golf cart every day after using it and it takes maybe five seconds; far better than having to go to a gas station!
The four passenger thing also works for me. We have a Honda Civic and almost never put five people in it. We’d rather take two cars at that point (and that is rare). The Volt sounds plenty big enough for our needs. Good job Lyle!
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:40 pm)In ten years (…having flashback to #114…OK, I’m done), when this becomes relevent, there ought to be an old-battery trade-in of some kind. You can often find a (lead-acid) battery dealer who will knock $10 off the cost of a new battery if you bring in your old one. This is partly because lead, though a deadly poison, is widely recycled for batteries.
Now hold on for a moment.
If a new (lead acid) battery costs $60 – $70, and you can get $5 – $10 knocked off for your old one, that’s better than 10%. How about knocking off $1000 – $2000 for a $10,000 battery? Hopefully, people aware of the EV resale problem will attack this more aggressively and offer even more (and also, if a new Li-Ion in 10 years is still $10,000, the EREV is in serious trouble).
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:42 pm)Update:
GM was having another decent day today, up as high as $13.60, until they got a credit downgrade. Currently $13.04, off .15 (-1.1%)
“Fitch cut the ratings of GM and Chrysler by one notch to “B-minus,” six levels below investment grade from “B” with a negative outlook…The rating agency estimated that GM may suffer cash drains exceeding $10 billion this year and would need to raise new capital over the next 18 months to maintain a comfortable cash position of $12 billion to $14 billion.
Another downgrade could come if GM dips below $15 billion in cash, Fitch said.”
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:47 pm)Speaking of golf carts. I was in South Carolina Thursday and Friday. My wife and I stayed with a friend for those two days and nights. They have a new golf cart that they charge up and drive around the “neighbor hood”. They live in a semi-suburban area that is closer to country than suburban. Jim took me for a ride in the golf cart and it was great to drive around the streets and across lawns and pastures with no sound except the wheels on the pavement (when we were on pavement). Made me really want the Volt even more. They use it to run short errands around the area. They don’t get on busy streets with it, but it was pretty fun.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:50 pm)People that do their homework and know the tricks of the trade tend to get the best deals on cars. Gotta know how to play your cards like in Texas Hold ‘Em poker.
There’s plenty of advice on the internet for helping people shop for cars. I’m sure most of us on this blog already know how to get a good deal. When we talk to people who are interested in the Volt, we ought to help them get good deals on their Volt too. A lot of potential Volt customers are going to have questions and be confused about different things. We could help other people climb the learning curve about this new 21st century high tech car called the Volt.
Us “Volt Nation” bloggers will probably be the first ones at the office or the neighborhood to get a Volt. Lots of people will probably be asking us about the Volt when they see us getting out of it in the parking lot. I want to see Volts all over the place in 4 years and good “word of mouth” about the car itself and the dealer experience, etc. If GM builds us a home run Volt like I think they will, they’ll have plenty of free salesmen out there saying good things about it and helping people get one.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:52 pm)Statik
Maybe they need to start collecting deposits on new Volts. Probably would not help them that much, but it might boost investor confidence. I don’t know. What do you think it is going to take to get GM’s stock back on the up track again?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:55 pm)Those of you complaining about dealer price gouging sound like high school geeks crying because football players get the cheerleaders.
We live in a (more or less) free market, supply and demand economy.
If dealers can gouge, that means that Volts are selling faster than they can get them, which means that GM will ramp up production as fast as they can, then you can have your Volt at sticker price. JMHO
Now grow the F@#! up
)
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Jun 25th, 2008 (1:55 pm)Surely, no one except Lyle is more plugged in to Volt developments than nasaman, one has to be well-grounded in the Sciences to have such an enlightened view.
nasaman, …more power to you!
…OK, I’m done now.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (2:07 pm)You know, there really wasn’t any information in that interview.
I want more tech information anyway. Yeah, they are going to sell it, they need to service it, dealers will get it, etc. etc.
As for his charging comment: I took it to mean it’s inconvenient to charge while on the road as it is inconvenient to fill your car up with gas when it’s sitting in your garage. He’s right. While on the road there aren’t a lot of places to charge. Maybe someday.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (2:19 pm)#134 Ross
You are, of course, correct. I stand corrected. And I will grow up. Well, maybe, I will and maybe I won’t.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (2:21 pm)#136 TBK
That is the way I understood the interview, also.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (2:26 pm)#135 Jackson
Nasaman is on a different plateau than most of us. One day we maybe so lucky. And, I am saying this with the utmost respect for him. I kid you not. Lately nasaman has been a little quite. He must be into something pretty interesting. Now, what could be more interesting than banding about words with the likes of us. Oh, oh. I just answered my own question. Not to our good either.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (2:52 pm)Marketing ? Anybody that’s willing to drop $30k on a car and wants to save a little gas money.
Advertising? Just give one to Britney…
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Jun 25th, 2008 (2:53 pm)I am hoping for an Eflex Equinox, seems like and easy do considering they have already made the H2 version, throw in an ICE and a bigger battery and you are there. I am surprised that the E-Flex Equinox will not come out first since it has been done in H2, or at least at the same time or time frame. It would make me more happy than the Volt, cargo room and plenty of room for trips and camping. I would also like to have 120V ac plugins for powering things. They should add that to the volt as well. It might be is the works, tell everyone the Volt will be out in 2010 a d have an EFlex Equinox ready in 2009.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (3:08 pm)Let’s send them all to California and NYC…those places have been SOOOOOOOOO supportive of GM over the past 40+ years…yeah right. VOLTS should all be sold to long time GM customers in parts of the country that have always supported GM. THEN, these customers could offer them to sale on eBay for purchase by those in California, NYC and elsewhere, and probably realize enough in profit to help them pay for $8.00 gas and would actually be a nice fair way for GM to say “Thank You” for supporting GM over the years. Far too many people buy far too many foreign vehicles filing the profit coffers of overseas manufacturers. I’ll get off my ‘Soapbox’ now.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (3:12 pm)Despite my earlier rant, it is really great how passionate everyone here is about getting their Volt. Personally, I and 1 of my sons suffer from asthma, so I want to see EVERYONE get off of oil. The sooner the better. As someone posted earlier, smokestacks are MUCH easier to regulate than millions of tailpipes. Most of the smokestacks are also not stirring the smog directly into dense urban areas like our vehicles are.
With Tesla, Prius PHEV conversions, etc. (and maybe EEStor) pressing GM, they will hopefully get the job done.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (3:15 pm)Great interview Lyle! My only complaint is when GM asked what your readers think the price point should be, you should have left it at under $30,000. I think $30K is the most that the average person can pay without making significant sacrifices in other areas. I understand that people will save money on gas, but that’s already factored in since $30K is already more than the average person pays for a new car today.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (3:49 pm)#133 N Riley
“Statik. Maybe they need to start collecting deposits on new Volts. Probably would not help them that much, but it might boost investor confidence. I don’t know. What do you think it is going to take to get GM’s stock back on the up track again?”
I’d love to answer this…but the board war would be epic afterwards.
Maybe for another day, when the topic is more inline, lol.
Someone buying them is probably their best hope (although who would?) Long-story-short, if gas prices don’t breakdown from $4+, Chapter 11 seems inevitable. Their lineup simply does not align with the current market. No amount of ‘future cars’ can save them from the swath of corporate dead bodies that the economy and high gas is carving.
Other news (Washington, Commerce department/AP)
The Commerce Department reported Wednesday that new homes were sold at a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 512,000 units in May, down 2.5 percent from the April level. The median price of a new home sold last month fell to $231,000, down 5.7 percent from a year ago.
The report on new home activity in May followed reports Tuesday that showed record home price drops in April, indicating the nation’s housing slump is not only deepening but also widening to include previously untouched parts of the country.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (3:54 pm)#129 Jackson:
Pacific Gas and Electric here in (dare I say it!) CA has been experimenting with used Prius batteries for backup power. Evidently, after they cannot hold enough charge to work for automotive use any more, there is still enough capacity left for this. So there is a potential for buyback for more that the value of recycling the components.
Or maybe at the high price point someone will devise a way to rebuild or remanufacture them. Seems pretty likely to me.
So I think that your point is well taken. There will most likely be a pretty considerable residual value in used Volt batteries.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (3:55 pm)Lyle, I was just wondering if it would be a good idea if there was a place on this site where we could enter in data that would indicate the type of intended use that we would likely be subjecting our Volts to? We could indicate for example, commuting distances, occasional use distances, local climate, local terrain, etc. This data could be used by those in GM trying to get info on thier likely customers. (Kind of like a microcosm of the wider national picture). Maybe this would help GM in some way, with the task of targeting the volt customer. Anyone else think this is a good idea?
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:01 pm)#145 Statik
A ray of sunshine you are not. But, you do serve to keep our feet somewhat on the ground with your less than joyful new items. I just hope I don’t hear giggling in the background. That would be too, too much.
On a more serious side, I don’t think it will turn out as bad as that for GM. I still have faith that they will pull out of their current problems. Their newer car line-up is beginning to stack up a lot better than before. If we could just convince more of us to buy American, GM could see light at the end of their long, long nightmare.
I am hoping for the best and pulling for them. And I am going to look at a 2008 Malibu soon. If it looks good, I will look again at the 2009 and probably buy one. I will take a wait and see approach.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:06 pm)148 Canuk
Yes, good idea. GM could send us all a questionnaire for us to fill-in with room for comments for each question. Plus, if they are looking for a focus group, they should be picking members off our list that live close enough to GM. They would really get some focused answers then.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:08 pm)#145 Statik:
Alas, it all appears too likely. In your learned opinion, do you think that they would emerge from Chapter 11 as a leaner, meaner, viable company, or would it just prolong the inevitable?
#147 Canuck:
I could answer with a line from the famous Guy Clark song, covered even more famously by Jerry Jeff Walker, if memory serves:
“If we can just get off of this LA freeway without getting killed or caught…”
Does being a Guy Clark and Jerry Jeff fan rehabilitate my LA image at all? Steve Earle? Emmylou? I sure hope so.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:14 pm)#149 N Riley:
Second the motion. I nominate Statik.
As the great Mort Sahl always used to say:
“Reality……what a concept.”
At the end of his act he would say:
“Now, are there any groups out there that we haven’t offended?”
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:22 pm)My wife had an EV-1 for a few weeks as a selected member of a test driver’s group program partnered by GM and Pennsylvania Power and Light. She loved it and would have bought one. The focus group responses garnered from my wife and her other very fortunate EV-1 testers, gave GM much insight into developing and birthing a true consumer friendly product. My wife’s only concern at the time was at how quietly it traversed neighborhood streets, and that it could become a safety concern for kids and the visually impaired who wouldn’t even hear it coming. When I told her of GM’s current plans to put most of the VOLTS where we would probably not be able to get one for a few years, she was disappointed. Her daily commute is 25 miles each way with a 110/120 VAC outlet at both ends.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:25 pm)Ross, #134 says, “Now grow the F@#! up
)”
NO. I will never grow up. I don’t want to. No no no no no.
whine whine whine. I don’t want to grow up. It isn’t any fun being an
adult. They are so boring and can’t relate or understand anything.
no no no no (stamping feet while throwing temper tantrum)
Oh, I’m 44 years old…….but I’m still not growing up. Unfortunately, I’m growing outward.
Edit: Ross, being serious for the moment. I’m sorry to hear about the asthma in your family. My daughter has it also. It is not good and I would love to see us all have wonderful clean air to breathe. I wish you and your family well.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:26 pm)noel_park:
California? CALIFORNIA?? CALIFORNIA???!!!
AAARRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!
But seriously:
I think it’s highly likely that the Utilities industry will develop it’s own batteries. I alluded to this before, but lost the link. Here’s another:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Xcel_Energy_Launches_Groundbreaking_Wind_to_Battery_Project_999.html
In another thread I wondered if this would lead eventually to an off-the-shelf battery for “quick charge” service stations.
Note that Utilities really have no need for lightweight, small size, high density batteries: overall specs and dollar-per-watt would do them nicely with other chemistries (sodium/sulfur, in this case).
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:27 pm)Noel Park
No rehabilitation necessary. I am not familiar with some of those, but, hey, everyone to their own likes when it comes to music and theater. I like the freeway comment. I have had some of those feelings at times.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:34 pm)Ed Peper sais…”There are lots of electrics out there and lots of hybrid, but no other manufacturer has a vehicle like this that provide consumers with the opportunity or the function of a vehicle like this. So we have a real opportunity for a considerable period of time to be sort of alone in this arena. ”
Where has this guy been living ? In an underground bunker for the past 10 years? GM thinks they have a “real opportunity for a considerable period of time” ? Mitsubishi is testing 100 EV in NY City RIGHT NOW that get 80 miles per charge. Does he think that the Japanese are all asleep. Toyota and Honda are not saying a thing about what they are doing withe their EVs. Ed Peper do you REALLY believe that NO ONE else is going to bring a EV to market BEFORE GM does? WAKE UP !! Your EGO is only exceeded by your naivete.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:43 pm)I read a lot of comments about dealer price gouging. There are also comments from people thinking it won’t happen or if dealers are gouging, it will only be a couple of thousand. I don’t know where these naysayers are writing from, but I will tell you that as far as the San Francisco Bay Area is concerned, there will be a lot of gouging, and I’m not talking about the $2,000 – $3,000.
Keeping in mind that in this geographical area, where 2-bedroom fixer-upper homes cost over half a million dollars, dealers know that there are a few people out here that will pay a huge premium for something so limited in supply. Just recall that in the last couple of years, when the brand new Z06 Corvette came out, the dealers were adding a $20K mark-up over MSRP and didn’t have any trouble selling. Or when Ford came out with the new designed Mustang in 2005, dealers were adding $5,000 mark-ups on the GT models. With the initial Volt rollout of 10,000 vehicles, the Chevy dealers in the Bay Area will definitely be price gouging because if they can only get a handful, there will definitely be a handful of people in the Bay Area who will shell out the cash no matter what the price is.
I recall talking to a Toyota saleman a few years ago about a Prius and he told me that Toyota would not allow the dealers to add a mark-up and that all dealers had to sell at MSRP. I hope that GM will be ethical enough to require this of their dealers. I have been a loyal domestic car owner in my 30 years of driving and I would love to have a Volt. I have never paid MSRP for a car before but I will do so for a Volt, assuming it’s around $30K. Otherwise, I’ll be shopping at Toyota for their next generation Prius.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:52 pm)Jabroni,
You asked why GM pretends the EV1 never existed…
There is a public statement about the EV1 on their web site:
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
————-
AREN’T YOU THE GUYS WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR?
————-
We are the guys that developed and launched EV1, the first modern-day electric vehicle, back in 1996. We are also the guys that devoted tremendous resources to design, engineer, and market this vehicle. Although the technical innovation and marketing efforts behind the EV1 were unparalleled, only 800 people were willing to lease the EV1. Yes, the EV1 quickly became the worldwide benchmark for electric vehicles, but its timing wasn’t quite right. When GM launched the EV1, gas was cheap, there wasn’t a war in Iraq, and there was less discussion about global warming. There were far fewer reasons for people to make the trade-offs in their transportation lifestyle to make the EV1 work for them.
The good news is that both the technology and the GM team who developed the EV1 live on. Chevy’s next generation of low- and zero-emission vehicles – Tahoe and Malibu Hybrids,(1) Equinox Fuel Cell electric vehicles,(2) and our range-extended electric E-Flex system (found on the concept Volt) – all feature technologies and innovations from the EV1. We didn’t kill the electric car; electric vehicle technology is far from dead.
- Jill Banaszynski
Manager of Electric Vehicle Programs
General Motors Corp.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:53 pm)Lyle-
Can you add a field next to the writer’s name to show the writer’s city and state? I can tell from a lot of the comments that some of what people are experiencing are not similar in other locations.
For example, from Dave G., #100, states that there is now a 2-3 month waiting list on the Prius. From the ads I see in my Friday newspaper, the local dealers have plenty in stock and are even selling them at a little below sticker price. It’s from these comments that it would be intereting to see where Dave G. is writing from.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (4:57 pm)#153 Rashiid Amul
Thank you very much, for the much needed belly laugh and the good wishes. Best wishes to you and yours also.
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Jun 25th, 2008 (5:12 pm)I test drove a new Prius in 2006 in Dallas, TX. It had a non-negotiable $2,500 over MSRP price sticker added by the dealer, possibly in violation of any Toyota policy.
I have never seen any dealer lot in North Texas with more than 2 or 3 Priuses, and these are large Texas dealerships with many hundreds of vehicles in stock. It has been reported in the news recently that Toyota is down to a 2 to 3