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Video: The Latest With Bob Lutz on the Chevy Volt - Photovoltaic Roof After All?
June 22nd, 2008 | Posted in: Production, Video
GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz sat down with some bloggers recently and as readers on this blog have pointed out, the videos are on You Tube. This 10 minute segment below had some interesting details about the Volt
Some key points:
1. Lutz alluded that there may be photovoltaic roofs on the Volt after all. A very striking new fact as that has been one item people have requested more than anything else since the concept was first unveiled. I guess GM couldn’t resist the public demand.
2. He confirmed 10,000 Volts on calendar year 2011, a few will slowly ramp out in late 2010. 60,000 Volts in 2012, and the sky is the limits after that
3. He said the Volt will be priced at "just under" $40,000
4. He talked about dealers servicing abilities and said people might have to come in every 3 months to clean out the fuel tank.
Popularity: 6%
(11 votes, average: 4.27 out of 5) 
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Posted by: Lyle
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 pm
If only they could develop a 16kw panel that would fit on the roof…
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
And under $40k ? in 2 years? With 40 ev miles I’ll do it..
pb
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:55 pm
This is fantastic news. Thanks Bob! Looking forward to the Volt!
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:04 pm
(YAWN) I am tired of the talk. Show us something!
Take Care
Arch
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
I really like the idea of charging up my car while it sits in a parking lot at work. Why not use the power of the sun and not use energy from the grid whenever we can. Makes total sense to me.
The numbers of production vehicles concern me however, I need one of these cars in 2010….not 2012. My Bonneville won’t make four more years……it simply won’t. And I’m sorry to say that if I can’t buy a Volt by then I’ll be forced to buy a competitors electric vehicle as I will never buy another ICE only automobile. I want to support GM, I really, really do but if I’m not able to buy one to give them that support I’m forced to turn elsewhere. That will suck for them and me. I’m hopeful that those of us on GM-Volt.com who really want a Volt will be given that opportunity first. What better PR and word-of-mouth advertising than GM’s biggest supporters?
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
photovoltaic panel?? really?? feels like something part of options…. and a pricy one
And like #4…. enough talk, time to show it to us
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Might have been a different video but Lutz also talked about SW on the Volt not allowing a charge in anything but off peak hours. This can’t be good since people work different hours and may not be able to charge at work because of this. My biggest fear about this whole charging scenario is that it’s over controlled and becomes nonsensical. This complicates a fairly simple process (charging) before this vehicle has even hit the market.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:12 pm
40K is still not doable for me. I Want this car, but it’s unaffordable.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
“4. He talked about dealers servicing abilities and said people might have to come in every 3 months to clean out the fuel tank.”
The Volt 20M is looking better for me. The ICE would run the last 4 miles on work days and cost thousands less that the Volt 40M.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
While we’re at that, why not make the A/C or heater run while the car is still plugged on the grid. We could simply turn it on using a remote. That would allow for more range as the car would be cool (or hot) before unplugging it. Just a thought. Much easier to do than any fancy software control thing.
P.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:19 pm
To me, it sounded more like he actually meant charging it from panels on the roof of the owner’s house. His comment said the car but I’d guess he was meaning your house.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Im pleased that Bob sees the sky as being the limit after 2012 but I personally think by then that the Japanese will clearly dominate the hybrid market and they will be setting the limits.
Such is life!
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Who was conducting this interview? Is one of the guys asking questions dim enough to think mounting a wind turbine on the car is feasible or was he just having a little trouble getting his question about home wind turbines phrased properly?
#11, Dinosaurus, I was also thinking he actually meant house roof. It’s ambiguous but considering how much trouble solar panels would be for the car, I don’t expect solar on the roof anytime soon.
#10, Tall Pete, that’s not a bad idea at all.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Suggestion to GM/Bob Lutz;
While waiting for the Volt, why can’t GM;
1. Bring back the EV1 but with the improved Lithium battery so it gets better range.
2. The EV1 was fully approved and tested car so there will be only minimal development costs (with lithium battery instead of the cadmium battery as in the original EV1)
3. There’ll be less deadline pressure on the Volt development and production teams and they can resolve all the issues properly with less time-pressure on them.
4. It’ll also improve GM credibility among the nay-sayers
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:50 pm
bruce g #12
Im pleased that Bob sees the sky as being the limit after 2012 but I personally think by then that the Japanese will clearly dominate the hybrid market and they will be setting the limits.
Such is life!
*** *** ****
And they’ll have that market to themselves. Literally! The rest of the world will be buying EVs and there will be no turning back. IMHO Toyota invested too heavily in an intermediate technology.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
They already have the ability to run the car’s HVAC while on the grid.
My old calculations indicated that solar panels covering every part of the car’s topside wouldn’t generate enough electricity after 10 hours to do much of anything in terms of propulsion. It would run the battery cooling system, however, which I believe they mentioned as the purpose.
A 20M version looks to have a battery pack costing $8K less, or a car cost of $32. Assuming you can add later when batteries are cheaper, that’s a pretty good path for me.
If you think these prices are high, go out and price a simple electric conversion kit with an AC motor, like the one being offered for Porsche conversions. WITHOUT batteries, the motor, controller, mounting brakets, battery brakets (but no batteries), and speed controller and cables costs $25,000. Plus you supply the car and all the work. The cheapest AC motor I saw was over $5K. Conversion kits like the above for less exotic Geo Metros (yuck!) run over $12,000. DC motors are less expensive but generally don’t have regen braking. Then you need the other stuff, like vacuum bottles for power brakes, AC compressor, etc. Even cheap DC motors for a conversion can run over $3000. I laugh when these conversion fanatics try to convince people that because electricity is cheap, the electric car is cheap. Anything but. Would love to convert an Austin-Healey 3000 but only if EEStor batteries are available - I’m not going to maintain two cars, which is required if you have a battery only EV
with the batteries now available.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:01 pm
“…little control over dealerships…”, wow, that says a lot about GM’s overall problems. I think the City Think/Ox will be sold directly over internet to customer. By eliminating the middle man, they can contract out “on-site” repair, similar to the way Dell/HP etc contract out to GE and others to service your PC at your house. GM’s business model better change or they are going to be at a severe disadvantage to the numerous smaller companies that are poised to enter the EV market at the same time. I think someplace like those quick-lube shops will be able to handle gas tank cleanup more efficiently than those slow-poke dealership service bays.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:02 pm
#6 Franky
All we are getting is talk. It is not even good talk. I want to see some numbers on what the mules are doing! NO more talk I want to see some numbers.
Take Care
Arch
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:08 pm
#15Grizzly,
Well yes, the Prius concept is an an intermediate technology, but it has the punters convinced. GM will have to overcome fifteen years of the Prius myth when they sell the Volt.
By the way, I think the classic intermediate technology is the turbine locomotive at the Retro Technology website, but others may argue it is the Discatron.
The EV’s of course will undersell both the Prius and the Volt.
If the sky is the limit it may look like a Thunderstorm.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:09 pm
17 Dealer Inc.:
He was flat out lying on that one. Having spent the better part of my weekends, weekdays, and evenings with either GM Dealership salespersons or dealer owners over the last four years Lutz was blowing smoke up their butts with that comment
GM has tons of influence and tools to use on a dealer: withholding spiffs, poor CSI scores, inventory cuts, all the way up to (with the new contracts) shutting them down without compensation or letting them sink or swim without Motor Holding as a safety net.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 pm
“4. He talked about dealers servicing abilities and said people might have to come in every 3 months to clean out the fuel tank.”
#9 Best
I heard the same thing. I shut down my GMC motorhome in Oct. I fire it up again in April. I have never had a problem. I shut down my garden tractor in November. I fire it back up in March or April and never a problem. I think they are laying on the BS again. I am sick of it. Guess they think we are all dumb. Some of us are not
Take Care
Arch
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:21 pm
21 Arch:
You thought that was serious? I laughed out loud when I heard that because a joke of that nature is MUCH easier to say and move on to the next question than deal with the very hard truth that question brought up
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:23 pm
______________________________________________________
Thin film photovoltiacs have become less expensive, rugged, & lightweight.
A photovoltaic car roof will be a standard feature on the Aptera EV. It would be cool if the VOLT also had it as a standard feature.
http://www.aptera.com
______________________________________________________
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
GM needs to set up a Volt University. A university that only teaches Volt related technologies. Degrees offered will initially be B.S. in Battery Science.
That’s right a BS in B.S. !!
This university will be a “hands-on” university, not your typical Book Smart (BS) university. Many of the class projects will focus on two-wheel electric scooters (for cost reasons). The research gained from trials with 2 wheelers will easily transfer to cager technology. This college would become the world leader in applied battery science.
I am waiting to enroll my kids, so get busy.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:25 pm
A trip to the dealer’s service dept. every 3 mo. to clean the fuel tank ? Yes, I can see it now, a fuel tank designed so that special service tools are required and cleaning can only be done by an authorized certified service technician to prevent voiding your warranty. That certainly answers the questions about how dealers and their service departments will make anything on the service of these types of vehicles. There would be far too much product liability if a drain were provided and fires or explosions resulted.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:29 pm
The infamous pink tie makes a unprecedented third consecutive appearance in thread pictures of Bob Lutz…and 3 out of the last 5 threads.
Forget hocking the Volt T-Shirts Lyle, I want one of those pimpin’ ties. “Ho, ho! I cans say anything me likes, as long as I has me magic tie on again!”
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Bruce G #19
The Volt IS an EV, and a special one at that. I don’t think it’s difficult for common folk to understand not needing any fuel whatsoever at ANY speed to do 40 miles. A hybrid is what it is and a RE EV is the Volt. I’m betting on the latter and I doubt the public will confuse the two as demand will ultimately prove.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I found that the video above doesn’t work any more (due to too many views?), but I think I found the same video on YouTube manually:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiYO06ley6U
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:36 pm
The guy doing the MST3K dialog needs to shut up.
Interesting listen despite that.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
How hard will it be to maintain this car in the end? 17 moving parts versus nearly 1800 in a 1910 technology fire breather. Let’s move on.
As blogged above, $39,XXX for a 40 mile range charge, I’m in. For America if not myself.
US Air Force, retired.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
#22 Morgan
I no longer know what to believe. When we started this quest I had REAL hope. That is no longer the case. I am being fed Public Relations not facts. What do we honestly know about this car?
Take Care
Arch
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
The unveiling please.
What a shame though having only 10,000 made in 2011. Less than 1,000 per month. I do love my Buick Regals, all 3 of them. But I hate the Middle-East turmoil oil going into each. Looking forward to the picture of this Middle-Aged man driving Middle-East free behind the wheel of a Mid-priced Volt.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Heck, I’m going to put in fuel saver, or simply burn off the gas in the ICE. No need for a gasoline tank makeover unless a pure under 40 mile city dweller.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Statik #26
“Ho, ho! I cans say anything me likes, as long as I has me magic tie on again!”
*** **** ****
Statique
What kind of confidence do you think one would get from assuming/claiming he had the largest badminton racket in town?
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Arch #4: I agree with you. We need to see something real, and not more talk that may or may not really be part of the production Volt…
Tall Pete #10: This idea has been discussed extensively over the past year. some of the better ideas were the ability to set the start up time of the heating or cooling system as part of the car’s control settings on the dashboard, or as part of a customer controlled set of settings via a wiresless or cat-5 cabled connection to your home computer.
Jack Daniels #14: Over and over and over again, the movie was not correct in the facts…. The EV-1 was never meant to be available as a nation wide vehicle. It was only ever released in a very small quantity (1117 units total) in CA and AZ, because the systems would not work in any type of cold climate. Since these units were hand built, there is no assembly plant that is just ready to go. Even if GM wanted to try this, it would take longer to try to start that project back up than it will to get the Volt online! And lets not forget that the technology used in that car’s design is now over 10 years old. And with only an approx. 100 mile range, it was not really suited as a primary vehicle. That car is dead. It is not going to come back to life.
CDAVIS #23: The photo voltaics on the Aptera are only to run a fan to keep the interior cool on a hot summer day….
The Volt is the right design. It will get here. It takes time to design, test, spec out for parts suppliers, set up an assembly plant, train the workers, and train the repair techs. I am sure that GM is more aware of this that we are…..
Now if a parallel mode hybrid suits your needs, buy it. If an all electric vehicle with limited range will work for you, buy it. If you are willing to spend from $30K to over $100K on a vehicle from a small startup company with no nationwide dealer or repair facilities, buy it. If you have the time, energy, and ability to convert and maintain an ICE based car to electric, do it!
For me, I will wait. My current vehicle is paid for, will last until 2012, and gets middle 20’s mpg, so for me to go and buy something else now does not really make financial sense, just to get a few more miles per gallon. Would I like to be one of the buyers of the first 10,000 units? Sure! Is that likely? Probably not, unless Lyle is able to get GM to consider giving the people on his waiting list some preferential treatment. But realistically, the first units are going to be driven by politicians in DC, big money, high profile people in CA and NY, and Lyle, of course…. And I guess the high rollers on Miami beach, and maybe nasaman and TED in Ft. Meyers!
So the wait continues…………..
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:46 pm
In the software it should make the ICE run if the gas get’s to a certain level of quality. It would be cheaper to burn the fuel than to get the service done.
red
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Its really cool that Lutz said the Volt might have solar panels on the roof, I always thought it was a no-brainer.
Thin film?
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Photovoltaic Volt Roof:
I didn’t think this comment by Bob referred to anything other than a hypothetical future v2 or v3 Volt.
I didn’t think that the comment about emptying the gas tank was very serious either. Certainly something they are looking at, but I didn’t read the 3 month period to be anything more than a possible example. Nothing a little fuel stabilizer won’t cure.
If the fuel lasts 6 months and you keep 0.5 gallons in ‘just incase’, it becomes an issue just like topping up the washer fluid. Anyway, an option to burn off old fuel also solves that if you don’t have too much in the tank.
More significantly their market research shows HIGH demand at just under $40K. So the biggest problem is production volume. I’m nearly ready to give them 100% deposit to get a 2011 model.
Yesterday I just trenched a line to the driveway to accommodate 120 / 240v charging in my driveway. So I’ll be ready, I just hope GM will be ready to sell me a Volt.
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Great info. I would love to see pv cells on the roof.
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Sheesh, who is the extremely long winded questioner? Given his inability to concisely state a question, as well as his propensity to cite his own personal experiences ad nauseum (to the point of drifting way off subject), he simply loves to hear himself talk and ciphon all the oxygen. Even Bob had to stop him cold, letting him know that they were off topic.
I do feel comfortable that GM’s management is on top of all the things going into this vehicle and keeping the vehicle development on focus and on track. Bob clearly seems comfortable with GM’s current position, which is way ahead of the pack, who’ve all followed GM’s example. Only Toyota and Honda are ahead on hydrogen vehicles, but their’s aren’t plug-in, which the fuel cell version of the Volt will be.
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#15 Grizzly
“IMHO Toyota invested too heavily in an intermediate technology.”
This should not be considered Toyota propaganda…GM should know their competitors. I’m sure Toyota knows GM very well.
Well…IMHO Toyota’s hybrid tech (HSD) makes business sense. With each new version for 10 years (7 years in the USA), their flag ship has had improved fuel economy, improved performance, and new tech (better batteries) without a price increase. Also unlike competitor mild hybrid systems, HSD can operate on electric drive only and can be converted to a plug in hybrid which created an aftermarket of sorts for HSD. Toyota can size hybrid components based on market demand of the vehicle and market price of the components. If the battery pack prices the Prius PHEV 10 mile out-of-the-market of the sweet spot for volume sales, the plain Priuses will still sell. The buyer can reason that the vehicle can converted to a PHEV later…if desired. What if Toyota offers the option to convert a Prius to a PHEV at later date? 22-30K now…and add PHEV later. And Toyota will make a profit on both…unlike the VOLT.
Some folks here think that several of the folks driving $40K vehicles (or capable of purchasing) will conclude the VOLT is their vehicle.
Does anyone know how many new $40K+ cars were sold in the US last year? The fleet trucks do not count…unless a VOLT truck bed is an option. A better question…how many drivers have the money to purchase a $40K+ vehicle?
EVs have their place, but until they are fast charging (and other limitations solved) or gas prices put ICE vehicles out-of-the-market of volume sales or government intervention…the ICEs are still king. And hybrids give the benefits of both. Also, I’m unaware of the value, but Toyota has significantly more on the road experience of a consumer passenger vehicle with an electric drive system (1 million plus). And highly doubt Toyota has taken a loss on every one of the 1 million plus hybrids.
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
JeffB #41
Toyota invested heavily in hybrid technology as if to corner the market. The market has shifted to EVs and there is no stopping this. Agility is the key and technological prowess will rule. In this environment only the best will survive, and they will be the most agile.
I’m betting on GM.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 am
I’ve been a loyal domestic car owner for 30 years and currently own 4 American cars. I would love to own a Volt, but if the price is $40K, I guess I will be getting the next generation Prius instead.
I’ve read a lot of posts from people on this website, but in the future, can you all also comment on what your price-point is (at today’s dollars)? Just in case GM is monitoring this website, maybe they will get a clue as to how many loyal customers they are pricing out of the Volt and directing over to Toyota?
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:19 am
jbfalaska,
You are “Cleared in Hot”.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:28 am
Considering that 99% of the people on this forum can’t understand how meaningless the square footage of solar on the roof of the car does for you, it wouldn’t surprise me that the general public would think it’s a good idea.
But I can see the backlash now…”I paid $2,000 (or whatever) for the solar roof option and I still have to plug in my car and charge it. My solar array isn’t working GM!”
Most people are stupid and have no real grasp of how diffuse the solar flux really is and how much energy 8 kWh is, and how long that car would have to sit in full sunlight to charge up, (weeks, not hours).
Still it might be a nice marketing gimmick.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:28 am
If the Volt is to be positioned at the $40K entry market, then 2-mode hybrid technology may very well find itself introduced in the GM economy models in head-to-head competition with Toyota for the lower end market, as long as the economics are there. PHEV is still a viable technology for the global car market over the near term, at least until batteries can be reliably and cheaply supplied to provide a 200+ mpc range alone driving a decent sized motor (~30KW+) in a family sized vehicle, perhaps in conjunction with weight reduction.
Did anyone else hear Bob in talking about the possible Volt product accessories mention a “blanket like” solar panel which could be spread out and plugged in while on a picnic or at the beach to provide supplemental charging of the battery?
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:29 am
Oh by the way, at $40K I would probably buy three Aveos instead.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:49 am
I think Bob did a great job! I’m sure he wanted to choke a few of those guys but he remained cool and collected. He sounded very knowlegable and in command. Keep up the great work Bob!
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 am
The latest solar technology is coming soon. It can literally be “sprayed” onto the Volt’s entire body, just like paint and using nano technology it is 3 times as efficient as the best photoelectric cells shipping today. It’s coming…be patient.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:33 am
Using electro-magnetic properties, if the utility company just ran the power line underneath the asphalt road in the middle of each lane, the Volt could stay fully charge while on the move. Is that kewl or watt ?
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:34 am
One of 10,000 early adopters, standing by.
At the ready.
Standing by.
Early.
What? Still too early. Oh yea, OK.
Standing by…
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:44 am
Using current IBM supercomputers it should not be difficult to design a small nuclear powerplant (say the size of a watermelon) that could generate enuff go-juice for a Volt that would last about 20 years or so. Think of it as a scaled down version of those currently in the latest attack submarines the navy is cranking out. Deep inside the melon would be a buncha tiny radioactive pellets. This would work according to JPL experts and be safe. Nuke the Volt 2.0
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:59 am
Are you guys nuts! 40K is about 10-15K too much. I love the idea behind this car, but it just does not make sense money-wise. This isn’t a Lexus! How long will it take to recoup 10-15K over a Prius? I would snap one of these up in a minute if it was ~25K like Chevy stated in the beginning! I was planning on purchasing one of these. Not anymore. By almost doubling the price, Chevy has lost my business! I hope you guys buy enough of these so the price comes down to what most Americans can afford!
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:22 am
Jim #53
Don’t give up so quickly, we don’t know the final price yet.
Tiny Nuke #52
One crash and there would be nuclear debris all over the road.
Solar Geek #49
Like coming within the next 2 years ?
Grizzly #42 I agree, it’s the survival of the fittest and the Volt will clearly be the fittest.
Everyone wants a high performance EV for a low performance price. The Volt needs to be high performance to gain the publics confidence. I know that many will have trouble swinging $40k, unfortunately it has to be that way. Some will trade their Volt in early and that will give the folks with less revenue a chance to pick one up a little cheaper. Unlike ICEs the Volts shouldn’t wear out prematurely.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:34 am
Solar cells on the roof. How retarded. Only a non-engineer / technical idiot would request this. The proverbial drop in the bucket scenario.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:34 am
A VOLT for 39,995 sounds good to me!
Tried of paying $5,200/year for GAS!
GO GM GO VOLT!
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:04 am
I hope that the photo-voltaic solar cell roof option on the Volt comes in colors other than blue. I just had my colors done and my fashion consultant said I can’t be seen next to those blue hues. NASA has some really striking copper/amber tones which are just to die for! Maybe Bobbie Lutz should talk with those rocket boys. And if you want to be completely PC, don’t you think solar cells should be green?
Wake up folks, Lutz was just pulling their chains. He’s not an idiot. Of course he’ll SELL you a car with a PV top if you cough up enough money. That doesn’t make it a good idea. How about vinyl tops, fake NACA ducts, diamonds in the opera windows, retractable hood ornaments, and the like? Were those good ideas? Heck no. They offered them because folks were willing to pay for them, and pay too much!
Unless PV solar cells become five time more efficient, they are never going to make ANY sense on a car, any car. And if you need to clean your unused fuel take every three months, you need to start filling up at a different station!
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:57 am
Statement…..June 23 2008………..We Will have a Wind-Solar, Personal Electric Vehicle Recharging Station available for sale before the 1st Volts, roll off the assembly line in…….. 2010……………………Dick G.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:10 am
#1 Paul says: “If only they could develop a 16kw panel that would fit on the roof…”
Why 16KW? The Volt uses 30KW cruising at highway speeds, and up to 120KW when you accelerate or go uphill. See here for details:
http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/29/latest-chevy-volt-battery-pack-and-generator-details-and-clarifications/
If you wanted to charge the car via solar during the day, 2KW would work.
However, the reality is that solar panels the size of the Volt’s roof are lucky to produce 200 watts.
Bottom line: Solar Panels are only viable for larger areas, like the roof on your house.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:12 am
At $30,000 the Volt was a mainstream car. At $40,000 with talk of solar panels, the Volt looks to be a niche car for tree huggers and geeks.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:26 am
That video clip sucked. Next time get people that will actually let the man speak.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:41 am
#17 Dealer noted Bob Lutz’s comment about GM having “…little control over dealerships… ” I too thought his comment was remarkable, including his comment about the quality distribution — some dealers outstanding, some terrible, a lot that are sometimes good, sometimes not..
I take my truck to a Chevy dealership (in Hillsborough NC) that has an outstanding service department, so I’m happy. Still, I know of other dealerships in central NC that are terrible, just like Mr. Lutz said. I find it hard to believe that GM can’t do anything about the bad ones. More likely GM has mixed motives, such as dealerships that give bad service but have good locations with high sales, so that GM just does not do anything.
Or, to hear people from dealerships talk, GM often hardly knows what’s going on out in the field, a far cry from Honda, where calls from the service departments at dealerships go directly to the production line, if the call relates to a current model. For example, I’ll bet GM has no idea how many Silverado trucks have problems with the fuel guage sender unit, even though it’s a common issue. And try to talk to anyone at GM about some warranty issue — it’s not possible.
GM (the corporation) does not seem to care much about service quality. They shrug their shoulders, just like Mr. Lutz did. The GM corporate attitude seems to be that individual customers are on their own to find a good dealer. So I did find a good one, and I am happy. Not everyone has been so fortunate. I’m sure there are outstanding service people at dealerships all over the country, just waiting for GM to recognize and encourage them. For the Volt, GM will really need them. Will GM notice?
For the Volt, a lot of the service issues will be unknown at first. There will not be so many shade-tree mechanics. In part that is because the shade-tree group now specializes in Honda or Toyota.Just as the questionner said, in his long-winded way, this is one of those unintended issues that may become big trouble. As Mr Lutz implied in an earlier conversation, many of the biggest problems come from not paying attention to what “should be” a minor issue. GM better pay attention to this one.
Optimistically, maybe that’s what GM is trying to do, with the limited rollout. I doubt it, but “hope outweighs memory”, so I’ll keep hoping.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:49 am
Bartosik @38 is right. You have to put this stuff about a PV roof in the context of the discussion. The question was in the realm of imagining the future, and so was the answer. I don’t see it happening in the first generation, and I wouldn’t bet any money on it being in v2, or even v3.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:50 am
#57 hermant “…retractable hood ornaments…” You are making my heart go pitter patter and my hands shake over my checkbook
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:56 am
First of all, I’m sure he meant that solar panels would be mounted on the roof of your house, not the car. Photovoltaic technology isn’t that efficient yet. Nothing is free.
Next, I couldn’t help but notice about the price point. This IS niche technology (whether you want to hear that or not) simply because it hasn’t been done before in this manner by a domestic company. The battery, the charging sequences, the software integration. I could sit here and speculate about price for the next 2 years but that would waste so much oxygen (keystrokes) that I’d have to plant 30 acres of trees to make up for what I’ve consumed.
10,000 Volts in 2011? Oh well. Many or you already know how I feel about this issue.
Dealer service. Y’know, that almost seems to be an oxymoron. I have enjoyed ownership of the GM products that I’ve owned in the past, especially my Silverado (work truck for welders). However, I got such crappy service at the dealerships that I bought the repair manual and started working on my own truck. I’ve also sourced out parts and service from l;ocal small family-owned shops for alternators, mufflers, injector cleaning, etc. Since then, my truck had run better for less money. It shouldn’t be more expensive to be treated like you’re not important enough. Problem with the Volt is that “who in the heck will know how to service it?” Hell, how many people in certain areas will eben know what it is?
I can only hope that there is a Volt University. And hopefully, they won’t charge you your first born to service it. Sticker shock is more than enough. (Puns intended)
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:56 am
#59 Dave G — Maybe by 2012 you’ll be able to go over to Lowe’s and get a photovoltaic garage kit, complete with home use battery and nighttime charging connector for your Volt. Sure it’s a stretch, but it is not an impossibility
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:10 am
redndahead
In the software it should make the ICE run if the gas get’s to a certain level of quality. It would be cheaper to burn the fuel than to get the service done.
red
I fully agree with the above statement. Servicing the car gas tank should be a no no. Just think, an electric car could require very little servicing and that could be another great selling point. But, requiring to service the gas tank every 3 months is self defeating.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:15 am
A radio/ipod
An Airconditioner (Texas)
A Heater
Bucket Seats (Manuel is fine)
This is all I need in a Volt if it brings it to market quicker…
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:18 am
PV cells on the roof is ‘the item most people have requested’? Amazing! Would it generate sufficient power to keep my cell phone charged?
Have you ever seen one of those automatic swimming pool cleaners? Drop a small one in the gas tank and run it off the PV panel and you wont have to have your gas tank cleaned every three months!
Actually, if GM is going to add requested options, I would much rather have an alligator catcher on the front. If you don’t live in FL, you just don’t know how annoying it is to have to keep dodging those road gators.
So come on folks, show a little support for your buddies down here in FL and lets make gator catchers ‘the item most people have requested’.
Anyway, sounds like if I wait 5 years, I will be able to buy a Volt for $39,999.99.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:19 am
I still don’t understand the whole fuel tank cleaning issue. I have a motorcycle I put away 6 months a year for the winter. All I do is put a little fuel stabilizer in the tank, and all is well the following summer.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:20 am
The more Lutz talks, the more worried I get…..
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:20 am
JeffB #41
Toyota invested heavily in hybrid technology as if to corner the market. The market has shifted to EVs and there is no stopping this. Agility is the key and technological prowess will rule. In this environment only the best will survive, and they will be the most agile.
I’m betting on GM.
Hmmm…Toyota has had the hybrid market cornered quite well for a few years now. They have sold more hybrids than all other competitors combined. Based my info, I agree a market shift is occuring, but EVs are still a small portion. If auto company offers a $20K EV in mass volumes with performance comparable to an ICE, the market would probably shift to EVs. The first question that I usually hear from a car salesperson…”What do you want your payment to be?”. Price is main factor for the general public on car purchases.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:25 am
CDAVIS
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Thin film photovoltiacs have become less expensive, rugged, & lightweight.
A photovoltaic car roof will be a standard feature on the Aptera EV. It would be cool if the VOLT also had it as a standard feature.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you statement. Photovoltiacs have come down a great deal in price but are still too expensive. In order to make any significant amount of charging, a large area is needed and the roof of a car is just not enough. It would take the roof size of average home and that would be very costly.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:26 am
Show us the production version!
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:27 am
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A photovoltaic VOLT roof as a standard feature to keep car cool inside during summer months (same as http://www.Aptera.com) would be a very good thing; more comfort for the passenger, less energy used from the battery store to cool the car down on the front end of the drive, VOLT cool factor kicked up another notch.
Anybody like me that lives in Florida knows how much benefit there would be in not having to step into a 120F+ car during the summer months. Walking into a grocery store just for 15 minutes can turn your car into an oven.
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June 23rd, 2008 at 7:31 am
#59 Dave G.
It would make more sense if parking lots, whether at work or at the mall, provided solar canopies rather than apply solar cells to an EV because:
o A canopy would collect more energy since its area (8’ x 20’) is greater than that of the aggregate of an EV’s roof, trunk and hood
o Canopies can be extended to cover parking access lanes
o A canopy would always be oriented in an optimal direction
o A canopy’s angle can be changed seasonally to gather more solar energy
o Solar cells on a vehicle may affect its aerodynamics, i.e., increase drag
o Integrating solar cells into an EV would require a redesign for each model
o Solar cells last 25 to 30, years; an EV, 15 years or so
o Canopies are never parked in the garage
o Canopies would provide shade in summer and some protection against precipitation year round
o The power from a canopy can be used for other purposes when there is no EV beneath it or all EVs in the lot are fully charged
o The EVs are available for V2G applications
o A windmill can be tied into the canopy charging system to provide power on cloudy days.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:34 am
Out of context. The photovoltaic cells on “IT’S ROOF” means the ROOF of the energy providing SOLAR HOUSE he was talking about leading up to it. “It’s” is NOT the car. You have to listen to the full first 1:30 minutes.
The Volt will NOT have solar cells on the car based on this statement.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:35 am
Regarding comparison with Toyota’s HSD in Prius;
Short term HSD has a significant advantage for 100+ miles/day drivers because of costs involved (battery too expensive). However, long term HSD is a dead end.
There are limits to efficiency improvements. I am not sure if HSD transmission can disconnect ICE altogether, or it simply pushes cylinders without supplying any fuel (open valves of course). Today at least even in pure EV mode there is some drag from ICE.
Moreover as you drive more in EV mode (presumably to improve efficiency and use less fuel) then entire HSD transmission and ICE become a dead weight, much bigger than a small generator in Volt. Since Prius HSD is designed to operate mostly on gasoline it will always consume far more gasoline than electricity. Of course, it could evolve over time by increasing battery size and reducing ICE size, but that would end up being something very different.
Solar panel on the car roof could make sense using new cheaper solar tek. While the actual energy captured would be tiny in comparison to car requirements, given a low enough costs (much less than $1K) it would easily pay for itself over time. At the same time every little bit of additional captured energy helps, so why not. It might even help keep vehicle interior cooler.
Certainly the car manual and dealers should emphasize fuel stabilizers to keep fuel in the tank stable. Then fuel can last longer than 3 months. He probably tried to indicate that without additives ordinary fuel is unstable and can cause problems after 3 months. That is true as far as I know. Clearly at least once per year fuel must be consumed.
However, in order to prevent rusting of fuel tank it is best to keep it full. According to motorcycle owners’ wisdom, full tank of fuel ensures less water in a tank, hence less rusting. We actually fillup our tanks before storage during winter.
So the proper procedure would be to fillup (like any other car) then add Stabil or something like that. If no fuel is ever used, then simply DON’T plugin to let the ICE burn old stale fuel once or twice per year.
Thus GM would have to educate Volt owners, but certainly would not need servicing unless an owner if forgetful and doesn’t do maintenance.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:38 am
A couple of comments on the solar panels.
Aptera solar panel is just for running the ventilation system (as has been said already).
Home mounted solar panels are needed to generate enough electricity.
Check out this site.
http://www.evnut.com/
scroll down to “roof-mounted photovoltaic system” and click the link.
He is getting close to running his home (after a lot of conservation) and RAV4 EV from his home mounted 2.5KW solar array. The point is you need a lot of solar panels to power you car.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:38 am
NortherPiker,
While it makes sense it will never happen due to practical and economical problems:
- high upfront cost (most malls don’t care to invest so much)
- metering (again expensive controllers and money collection)
- security (would be stolen often)
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:40 am
Keith,
The 1st few model years will certainly not have any sort of solar panel as they have plenty of work to do and the cost is already too high.
Looking ahead 5-10 years later given cheaper panels of hew hundred dollars it becomes feasible.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:44 am
A photovoltaic VOLT roof to keep the car cool during summer would at some point probably save an infants life that is strapped in the back seat whose Dad was supposed to drop off the kid at daycare but forgot. At some point, at least one child would probably have its life saved by this feature.
I often need to leave the car running for at least 10 minutes to cool it down enough to put my child in the car seat.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:44 am
#76 Northern — You describe the WalMart parking lot of 2015. I am not joking. Walmart has the space, commitment and management that can make it work. Having customers come to charge while they shop makes business sense too.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:52 am
#43, Kent Lue. My absolute maximum is $30K.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 am
cyclop,
Mid-day recharging would do wonders for the life of one’s battery pack/ “gas” mileage. Parking garages will be motivated by Walmart’s actions to consider recharging using renewables as a business adjunct. As for paying, how about a charge card (sorry, I couldn’t resist).
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:06 am
Re mall re-charging, this was just posted on AutoBlog Green
Aeon to Offer Accelerated EV Charging at Malls
Posted Jun 23rd 2008 8:04AM by Domenick Yoney
The biggest name in shopping malls in Japan is set to install electric vehicle charging spots in its parking lots after entering negotiations with car-makers Mitsubishi and Fuji Heavy Industries, builders of the iMiEV and R1e, respectively. Starting with the Lakeland mall currently under construction in Koshigaya, Saitama Prefecture, Aeon will add to its list of environmental programs by giving EV drivers the opportunity to juice up while they are doing their shopping. According to reports, the charging equipment to be used will have the ability to fill batteries much quicker than the plug at Japanese homes, taking only an hour to do the job rather than the more typical 7-14 hours.This equipment sounds to us like something Nissan might be interested in looking into as it explores EV charging infrastructure in Japan.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/23/aeon-to-offer-accelerated-ev-charging-at-malls
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:09 am