GM Pauses on Future Truck Development as it Faces Unprecedented Economic Challenges
In following the Volt enthusiastically, one cannot help being struck by the significance of GM’s current financial challenges.
The company had been in the midst of a turnaround effort when VOLT was first introduced. Since then many significant economic hurdles have been presented. Not the least of which is the rapidly slumping sale of trucks and SUVs taking place across the USA in response to $4 gasoline. Trucks have long been GM’s dominant product accounting for a significant share of their North American revenue.
On June 3rd GM announced they were closing 4 truck and SUV plants, and considering the sale of Hummer. Now we find out they have put future product development for trucks and SUVs on hold. The carmaker has shifted significant engineering and development forces from truck building to car building in the hopes of better serving the rapidly shifting consumer marketplace. They are also developing plans on how to expand the E-flex portfolio for which the VOLT is only the beginning.
GM’s stock has reached its lowest level since 1982 as the company faces the prospects of needing to borrow as much as $10 billion at a time that its credit rating has also just been dropped. Further economic losses are also being induced by the fact that trucks being returned from leases suddenly have significant lower residual values. This while no profit has been made since 2004, and cash is being burned to the tune of $1 billion per month. GM started this quarter with about $24 billion in reserve but needs from $10 - $15 billion to operate.
There is talk of shedding brands and selling assets. GMs’ market value is nearly that Chrysler had reached when it was bought by Cerberus.
The time has come my fellow Americans, support GM now in these tough days, and help them bring the VOLT to market.
Source (WSJ ), (Detroit Press ), and (CNN )
Popularity: 5%
(4 votes, average: 4.25 out of 5) 
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June 21st, 2008 at 7:45 am
I have to concede, Statik called it. The sheer monthly losses, and the lower credit rating that Statik brought to our attention yesterday, are staggering in combination. Can anyone say, “Government bail-out?” Or do we allow our manufacturing capacity to be further eroded?
June 21st, 2008 at 7:45 am
I am a homebuilder. I need a pickup truck.
Sales on trucks, SUVs, Hummers are down because gas in not cheap anymore…
Same thing happened in the seventies ya’ll, with the Arab oil embargo, remember that.
This is nothing new except now our government is in on it also.
June 21st, 2008 at 7:46 am
DRILL HERE. DRILL NOW. PAY LESS.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:05 am
Trucks are and will remain a huge business. What we need is an EREV truck. Yes, the battery will have to be bigger. GM, please make us one.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:06 am
Ford put hybrids on hold while it downsized, will GM do the same?
The article I read said GMC and Pontiac might be shed along with Hummer. GM will still have Chevy, Saturn, Buick and Cadillac, plus its overseas brands like Opel and I know not what else.
Are we ready for the movie, Who Killed GM? Was it the corporation hating Democrats, or the Union culture of putting the needs of the worker over the needs of the manufacturer? Was it corporate leadership that sought short term profits from large and inefficient vehicles, who built vehicles that fell apart, that had inadequate headroom?
I bought 7 GM products during my lifetime, 5 of which were bought new, but two of them were lemons.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:09 am
If we are still another 5 years away from an affordable Volt or plugin Prius because GM has gone under and Toyota has stolen GM’s technology (yes, I said it), does anybody know about CNG or Biodiesel home kits?
Also, I read about some guy in Atlanta GA. that was converting cars to electric for approx. 10K… He is developing an electric car and was going to sell them through Walmart.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/06/sams-club-to-sell-lithium-ion-electric-car-in-christmas-promoti/
I guess to get an electric car right now it’s going to have to be fugly…
June 21st, 2008 at 8:10 am
If they started selling the “Plug In hybrid line”, they could stop the bleeding.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:11 am
While I’m not a fan of putting all the eggs in one basket, I have to agree with RB #4. People want trucks, SUVs, Hummers, etc. Make them all EREVs. It’s not the people don’t want the vehicles I mentioned. They just don’t want to pay for the gas. Make them EREVs.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am
Van # 5 says, “Ford put hybrids on hold while it downsized, will GM do the same?”
I seem to recall this and thinking at the time it was a stupid mistake.
Today, people want better gas mileage and the hybrids can fit that bill.
IMO, that is where GM should be concentrating. My hope is that they continue developing this while they restructure.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:16 am
In the face of these financial challenges, I have to wonder if GM will decide to direct its E-FLEX/E-REV development and marketing efforts into those market segments where it has long been pre-eminent (as well as profitable) —trucks and SUVs. It is becoming increasing clear that vehicle mass is far less important to the efficiency of a well-designed E-REV truck/SUV than to a comparable ICE-powered vehicle. For example, the new EPA figures for a 2008 mild hybrid Saturn VUE (a 4,000+ lb vehicle) are 32Hwy/25City, whereas the much lighter/smaller Saturn Aura with the same 2.4L gas engine and the same type mild hybrid system has EPA ratings of 32Hwy/24City, slightly worse even lthough it’s a much lighter, smaller vehicle than the VUE!
June 21st, 2008 at 8:18 am
Brad G #6 says, “If we are still another 5 years away from an affordable Volt or plugin Prius because GM has gone under and Toyota has stolen GM’s technology (yes, I said it)…..”
Yesterday while reading some of Statiks comments, I thought of something similar. Not when Toyota would steal GMs technology, but when will Toyota buy General Motors altogether.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:18 am
HEY GM! HERE IS A STOCK TIP!
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/03/japan-post-plans-a-switch-to-electric-cars-mitsubishi-stock-soa/
June 21st, 2008 at 8:23 am
#11 Rashiid Amu069
Another American industry gone. Japan’s corporate game plan is long term vs. the U.S. corporate game plan is “what’s my stock price today”.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:26 am
Maybe GM’s being put out of business by Walmart…
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/24/walmart-ceo-there-is-a-place-for-wal-mart-in-the-hybrid-electr/
June 21st, 2008 at 8:31 am
O.K. Now that I’m pissed I have to go to work and yell at subs. Ya’ll can bash away at me and I’ll be back at noon to defend myself. i guess it’s that time of the month….
June 21st, 2008 at 8:36 am
#14 Brad G. Very interesting article. I hope Walmart will be able to do it and the other box stores can follow suit. The way I read it, they are not competing against GM, but complimenting them by providing electric charging. IMO, this is exactly what we need.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:48 am
______________________________________________________
The GM financial crises may be a good thing.
The upside of crises is that it tends to sharpen the senses and serves as a catalyst to get things done. Exception: Modern American Government (both sides of the isle).
The GM financial crises in combination with GM’s considerable EREV head-start may actually be the ideal combination of ingredients to accelerate GM extending the VOLT platform to GM’s other portfolio lines. I’m placing my bet on Lutz to pull it off.
Go GM VOLT TEAM! Your leading the way.
______________________________________________________
June 21st, 2008 at 8:48 am
Joe 6-pack has sobered up, realizing he doesn’t need a 3/4 ton 4×4 to drive back and forth to work everyday.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:17 am
GM has only themselves to blame, big profit, big SUV with “mild hybrid”: America, this is your environmentally friendly Chevy Suburban, with 15 mpg, improved from 13 mpg, oh, big deal
.
Since American auto companies situation is close to Chapter 7, when I was shopping around, say a Chevy Malibu, I was asking for at least 40% discount off MSRP or I will go with a Toyota/Honda. Because if GM went out of business, my warranty will be worthless.
I will NOT support any American big companies unless they are responsible and focus on long-term solutions. GM, Ford, Chrysler has NOT changed. A chapter 11 filing may not change it either. Just look at GM’s bragging attitude when they have not even finish testing their battery for 100,000 miles and they may NEVER be able to deliver Volt. They hyped Volt so much, almost making me to doubt if they really know the reality that any battery’s life suffer greatly under harsh conditions (Cold, hot weather, fast acceleration, etc) or it will be another EV1.
Here is the bottom line: When Toyota/Honda hire more people, they are American, who cares if GM went out business if Toyota has 100,000 employees here? Toyota will soon over take GM in the US, while already more than 50% Americans (not fleet sales) buy Japanese cars.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:18 am
GM is just paying the price for the blunders they did in the past.
When there is an economic burden on the people, they would downsize their requirements and also choose the most reliable ones
as far as automobiles are concerned.
GM is just hiding the problems instead of fixing it. I mean instead of fixing the realiability of their automobiles, they are just throwing out new models. First of all, all the best minds in GM should sit together and go thru point by point why GM automobiles are less reliable than Japanese counterparts and fix it and make its automobiles exceed the customer expectations and throw Japanese ones out of the market.
GM is just trying to satisfy the shareholders instead of customers. What they are not realizing is it by not satisfying the customers they would also not satisfy the shareholders in the long term. GM will die sooner then we think if they continue the same attitude.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:23 am
I have said it several times before, people love their SUV’s, the storage, the assurance (real or otherwise) of AWD, but they are now running away from them as they guzzle gas. GM already has; 1) a large head start on the detail engineering of an EREV and 2) a concept vehicle in the form of the Cadillac Provoq (replace the hydrogen fuel cell with a practical ICE).
If GM is to survive they need to bring products to market that people want ASAP, before the competition takes their ideas and beats them to it. Many PEOPLE WANT SUV’s (myself included), but are not willing to burn the fuel (that’s why I will continue to drive my Toyota Highlander Hybrid - starting on my fourth year now) until something better comes along (whether it is Toyota, GM, etc.). I would prefer it to be GM, but they need to make these products available to buy.
GM can’t generate revenue and profits if you can’t make them available for sale in volume. Best of luck to GM’s survival.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:24 am
BradG # 3:
I’ve looked at the numbers for ANWR, and they’re a drop in the bucket. Not that Bush helped when he told a group of truckers that there was 27 million gallons of diesel fuel in ANWR, but drops in the bucket in the world oil market are measured in billions of barrels of oil per day. The real number in ANWR is between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels. The total world oil consumption (and oil is a global market no matter what anyone does) is on the order of 83 million barrels of oil a day (2005 numbers), so ANWR would be about 6 months worth of oil, in the best possible case. Professional analyses seem estimate that drilling in ANWR would reduce the cost of retail gasoline by about $0.25/gal, which is down in the noise at this point. A drop in the bucket.
Having been to Alaska, I’m not sure that drilling matters… Alaska is a place where nature can and will kick your ass — so, as much of a hippie as I can be at times, I don’t think that the bleeding-heart environmentalists win this one. But, as someone who is mathematically literate and an information-junkie, I don’t think that the quantities of oil that are available there are worth all of the political hype — I think it’s really just a symbolic issue that politicians can use to show how much of a wingnut or how much of an “environmentalist” they are.
I haven’t looked at the numbers for the estimated reserves in the coastal areas that they’re talking about, though, so the picture could be quite different there. Or it may not be. I haven’t looked at the data.
If you’re interested in these issues, I recommend the following blog:
http://www.theoildrum.com
They have a strong bias for the idea that we’re running out of oil NOW, which you may or may not agree with (I’m not sure where I stand on the issue myself), but the benefit of the site is that people argue with numbers and graphs with something close to academic rigor. Even if you disagree with them, they are at least arguing about the right questions using the right tools. If they’re right, the Volt needed to be here yesterday, and if they’re wrong the Volt needs to be here next week.
Anyway, my apologies — I just couldn’t let a simple political slogan slide without bringing some complicated numbers into the issue….
June 21st, 2008 at 9:27 am
______________________________________________________
Brad G #14 - That was an excellent link find regarding Walmart…thanks.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/24/walmart-ceo-there-is-a-place-for-wal-mart-in-the-hybrid-electr/
In my opinion, that Walmart news is the most significant EV related news since GM announced their intentions regarding the VOLT program; monumentally BIG !!! This is a very good thing for GM; GM + Walmart = BIG Forward EV Momentum.
Walmart getting behind the EV movement is better than the American Government spending a trillion dollars supporting EV.
I’ve got a big smile on my face. Life is good.
_____________________________________________________
June 21st, 2008 at 9:34 am
s/billions of barrels of oil per day/billions of barrels of oil/
If I’m going to rant about people who say kilowatts when they meant kilowatt-hours, I’d better get that right!
[ducks]
June 21st, 2008 at 9:38 am
Actually, GM and Ford appear to have finally “closed the gap” on quality and reliability in some of their cars. The new Malibu has won a lot of awards by the automotive press … North American Car of the Year. So has the Cadillac CTS. They just need to be consistent about it in ALL of their cars and trucks. I think they’ve turned the corner on building quality cars that match up well vs. the Japanese and European cars. It took a long time, but I think they’ve finally done it.
I hope they REALLY get the JD Power, Consumer Reports, and Motor Trend folks fired up about the Volt when it comes out. If the battery is rock solid, I think the Volt should be pretty darned reliable. Electronic systems usually beat mechanical systems every time once they bug test everything thoroughly. That’s exactly what GM’s engineers are doing these days. Lots and lots of testing …. in all sorts of conditions. They might be testing the Volt on Pike’s Peak and the Mojave Desert before long. I hear that the cooling system for the batteries should be pretty reliable and keep them running at optimal temperatures and safe.
The Volt really is a whole new breed of car. Brand new DNA. The first mainstream electric drive automobile. The first “series hybrid” ever … or E-REV or ER-EV whatever you want to call it. I have a feeling that “Maximum Bob” is going to make sure his engineers put in a maximum effort on the Volt. It ought to be a real nice car once it comes out. Hopefully it’ll have a great exterior and interior and world class, cutting edge technology under the hood. Toyota engineers will have to give Bob Lutz and GM a Japanese style bow for their achievements with the Volt.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:43 am
The primary vehicle of the agency I work for is the 1/2 ton pickup truck, single cab and 2 wheel drive. We have approximately 2000 of them Fords, Dodges, and GMCs. The personal favorite of most of our workers is the GMC for fuel economy, ride, and handling. What we do requires either a pickup or midsized SUV. We have our own fueling stations with both gas and diesel pumps. We can’t afford the hybrid Silverado but we would probably buy a half ton diesel by the hundreds. Better fuel economy, more durable, and we allready have trained diesel mechanics on staff. In the future if they had an EREV pickup available that would be nice but GM could sell plain Jane, diesel work trucks by the hundreds of thousands now since every state has a similar agency and they are usually limited to domestic vehicles.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:48 am
“In following the Volt enthusiastically, one cannot help being struck by the significance of GM’s current financial challenges”
You don’t say? I was unaware of any problems at GM.
Seriously, shouldn’t I get like a nod or something in that post Lyle? You practically cut and paste my posts over the last month, lol. C’mon throw me a bone. (I kidd…no seriously…I kidd, seriously)
FYI, current cash is pegged at 20.5 billion. The next hit will be the buyout of the 19,000 odd workers at the end of July, probably in the 900 million to 1.3 billion range…hard to say as they did not give the demographics of those taking the numbers, so it is hard to guesstimate…it will show up when they have to file the one time charge (although I know when I first did the math I underestimated the number of ‘bridge to retirement’ buyouts, so my new guess-ti-mate is actaully a little lower).
#4 RB
Dude! (Yes, I said dude…it’s summertime, I’m currently sporting a ‘flowery shirt,’ so dude is completely appropriate).
The MONEY is right there. EREV truck. People aren’t balking at the price of trucks, they are balking at the pump ($100 please).
Honestly, the battery doesn’t even need to be that much bigger. Just plunk the 16kWh Volt battery in there and give it regen breaking. True the range will probably top out at 15-20miles, and the fuel efficiency might go up to 18MPG with the regen…but thats all people need to buy this thing. The blended 50 mile MPG would still be like 30MPG.
People need trucks to do stuff, but they also need them to just go to the supermarket to just get milk. Most people can’t have a truck for work and a spare car kicking around to go to the movies on ‘welfare night’ (Tuesdays in Canada…half price).
This is truely where the dollar bills are. There is no one in this segment at all, not even close–nothing in development.
I want a Volt, not a truck…but GM should be throwing their last dollars at this project. (On a cost to development basis, it would be much, much cheaper. No special engineering need to find room for a T-Pack battery here). It would also be ‘hella cool’ to have a more aerodynamic looking truck…enough with the flat-faced ‘monsters-of-the-road’ The jelly bean design has a future here! Sleek and sexy.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:03 am
There is a small company in Utah that is working with one of the “Detroit Big 3″ on an EREV truck. The company calls it a “Chevy Volt, on steroids.” Don’t agree with the use of the term ’steroids’, but I guess it explains what they’re working on. The automaker has yet to be named due to rights to marketing, but speculation points to GM being the OEM. The truck/suv will be unveiled later this year. My guess is at the LA Auto Show in Nov.
40 mile all electric range
0-60 in 8.8 seconds
200kw AC induction motor
700 volts of electrical power, it has an onboard power generation unit where you can power up to 6 homes… (for fleet vehicles, won’t be on the consumer version)
Here’s a link to a video Raser has created explaining a little about the EREV. There are also other videos on Raser’s website.
http://www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/news_articles_PHEV_truck.html
There is also a good PDF document showing the specs of the EREV truck.
http://www.rasertech.com/media/pdfs/Series_PHEV_Drive_System_Flyer_07.pdf
June 21st, 2008 at 10:14 am
Imagine a big battery E-REV truck….built in generator for your job!!!
And get it out fast, GM. Suggestion: don’t develope a new battery…just stack two or three in there under the bed.
And 20 mi, that’s fine for a truck. Trucks do local jobs.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:15 am
statik,
You remind me of my old man, if you say enough lousy things about someone long enough, eventually you will be proven right.
GM is on the right path, and I expect that the government will give GM favorable loans, in spite of their current credit rating, and they will be able to continue with their E-REV development efforts.
GM is in the best position of the three automakers, and all your harassment won’t deter GM from completing the Volt, so go bark up another tree.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:17 am
As for all the talk about opening up to big oil offshore drilling and in the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge…. the oil companies have already been called on this by the astute polititions… big oil companies already have leases to tons of Federal lands that hold significant reserves… on which big oil has done nothing with. The new leases they want to get so they can lock them up before they lose their best three lobbiests sitting in the white house (Bush/Cheney, and let’s not forget Condy Rice came from Chevron).
And as for the offshore drilling… even if they were given leases…. there is a 5+ year back log for orders of new offshore drilling platforms, so you are looking at 5 + 5 = 10 years before you’d even see oil flowing from any of those.
As others mentioned above, it’s a global market… pumping oil from off our own shorelines does not mean we get a discount price for that oil, the global market sets the price for a barrel, no matter if you pump it out of your own backyard or from Iraq.
The biggest thing that may help bring down oil prices is to close what’s refered to as the “Enron Loophole” in the trading markets which includes for oil. Some estimate between 25-50% of the price of oil right now is due to that. Think what happened to electric and natural gas prices in California.
In any case, fossil fuels are a finite resource. We can just keep drilling to our hearts content, but it’s just going to speed up their depletion. In the mean time we’re re-releasing into the atmosphere over a period of just a couple hundred years carbon that had been removed from it over millions and millions of years (and at the same time natural carbon sinks are being cut down). Is this what we are leaving to our grand children?
We have to shift away from our reliance on fossil fuels to an infrastruture that gives us the flexibility to phase in other energy sources. Electricity gives us that flexibility. Look how quickly we moved away from generating a significant portion of our electric needs with oil after the 1970’s oil crisis. But our general transportation sector was not able to do the same. Now is our chance… BEV’s, with or without “range extenders”, can give the transportation sector that same flexibility. Then clean and renewable energy can be phased in… wind, solar (both thermal and PV, which in the works are even space based PV transmitting down to earth via microwaves), hydro, tidal, geothermal, nuclear (fission), and maybe someday (though I don’t expect to see it in my life time) nuclear fusion.
So give us the Chevy Volt, the Tesla Roadster and Whitestar, the Volvo Recharge, Phoenix, etc etc! Let’s go back 100 years to the future when EV’s rule the (motorized) world!
June 21st, 2008 at 10:22 am
#27 Statik — Dude(!), right now I am at the mall, which I got to by driving 10 miles with my wife in our Silverado truck. I love my truck, and besides that it carries the stuff I need to carry, mostly on short trips. If there was an EREV truck that followed your numbers, I would be at the dealer today. It’s ok if my new truck is a little bit expensive, I just want it, and I don’t want to see any more $100 at the pump.
For me the Volt is a curiosity. Replacing my Silverado (140K miles on it) today with a new one would be expensive, and the gas mileage improvement is real but not huge. With an EREV truck, we’d be talking serious.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:35 am
I’ll gladly support GM in buying a new car from them, once I cna buy an electric once. I have over $30K spare cash to buy a car which will leave me very small payments. But I’m anxiously awaiting the car to be for sale.
Hopefully GM will show us the redesign of the Volt soon, and will get the world drooling for one soon. Now that they have retired the prototype, what is holding them back from showing us the redesigned Volt?
June 21st, 2008 at 10:36 am
Jeff @ 31
Exactly. There are NO assurances that any oil pumped from the anywhere in or near the US will go to American refineries and in fact, it’s unlikely it will. If that happens, America will still be dependent on foreign oil. If we try and force it to American refineries….that’s not going to happen.
Before we give any more drilling rights we need to get the companies to drill the lease areas they have now.
There is no incentive for them to do that, no incentive to build refineries (only lowers price) and no incentive to work on alternatives. You can’t blame them, there is nothing in it for them.
We need to do it ALL independent of the oil companies.
Finally we need to stop the speculation on oil or at a minimum raise the margin rate so only those that can really afford to guess can play.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:00 am
Crushing perfectly working cars has never been good car business. Should have sold the EV1 for a 100% markup, rather than crush them.
Karma’s a biatch.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:03 am
NF #28. Thank you for that link. I honestly think, as I said above, all of the trucks and SUVs have to be converted to EREVs. Your link shows just that. However, the truck doesn’t look very aerodynamic.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:08 am
Thanks Mr. Bush, as GM goes so does the nation, most of you may not believe this but you will in the near future. Deficits through the roof to make all of his buddies rich. No one talks about it but Toyota,s sales are even down 8 per cent. The US market for vehicles will soon evaporate so who do you think japan will be able to sell all of those vehicles to. GM made some mistakes in the past but all of you who voted for Bush have helped kill this once great country, the partys over let the carnage begin. And oh yes be sure to blame the unions how do you think this country achieved such a high standard of living? If we are lucky enough we will be able to climb out of this hole in 30 to 50 years, THANKS AGAIN GEORGE , WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT AS GM ITS TIME TO START BAILING.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:14 am
#1 MarkinWI & #30 Jason M. Hendler
I don’t believe that there will be a government bail-out simply because every one of the big 3 is hurting.
If it was just one of them, like Chrysler in 1979, then certainly.
Jason, whats your take on corporate welfare?
Just curious.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:33 am
RE: Trucks, Fuelcells & Hydrogen
How to power trucks??? I believe GM has stated that BEV’s for large vehichles isn’t feasible. The Two Mode hybrids savings, as significant as they are, may be no competition for rapidly rising petrol prices. Trains and air planes will probably still be viable businesses. It’s the middle of the transportation network that is gettitng crushed to non-existence. It appears that (hydrogen?) fuelcells may be the best choice for this middle sector — especially for large organized networks.
Meanwhile Dubya does nothing — no leadership what-so-ever and our candidates for president may be only slightly better than Dubya. Bad times ahead, bad times ahead.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:53 am
#20 Talks..
You sound correct..
GM comon… Get the VOLT to the market as soon as possible.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
#30 Jason M Hendler
“statik, You remind me of my old man, if you say enough lousy things about someone long enough, eventually you will be proven right. ”
Has your old man ever said this to you, “I just totally covered you in pwnsauce?”
I’ve have never got anything wrong about GM’s financials. Anything! Feel free to surf every single thread on this board.
I called the cash flow numbers.
I called the coming clean about SUV sales the day before the annual meeting announcement,
I called the further layoffs/plant closures on top of the boyouts before it was announced.
I called the top on the 100 day moving average of the stock the first of May (ask George K about it,lol)
I was the first inline to call bs on the sub 30K price
I was the first inline to call bs on the 35Kprice
I called the lowering of GM’s debt rating
I called the fiasco with GMAC and Rescap before it hit the market
What part of GM’s financials/outlook have you got right so far?
I wonder what would happen if I went back and pulled your posts and put them up to the light of day? I’ll pull a random one that you retorted against me with back in March, “GM has tens of billions of cash on hand - more than enough to get through the upcoming economic downturn” - beauty
What postion are you to call me down? You want to call me out with a random unfounded/unprovoked derogatory post?
You basically just called me some kind of board wacho that throws out random craziness that is always wrong…that just happened to hit something this time.
Well, I’m your huckleberry. We can have a credibility war if you like. Have at it! You are always over the top…and just plain mean. It’s totally uncalled for, there is no need for posts like that, and I’m a little tired of them. So I’m using this moment to say, be civil. Show me the same respect I show you.
What purpose does it serve? What did you hope to accomplish with it? What value did you bring to the rest of the people reading the board by smearing me?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I apologize to the rest of the board for that post, I just had to get it off my chest, I felt I had to retort and defend myself… I won’t continue it.
Good news though, GM’s stick is ‘unchanged’ today!
June 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Statik #42 says, “I apologize to the rest of the board for that post, I just had to get it off my chest, I felt I had to retort and defend myself… I won’t continue it.”
No need to apologize Statik. Jason M. Hendler #30 was rude and personally attacked you. You have a right to respond.
I suspect he doesn’t like his own father, but was projecting it at you.
Tagamet will know better than me, though.
Keep posting, Statik. Oh, that is great news that GM is unchanged today! Thank goodness for weekends, huh? Monday we can watch it drop down more.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
#6 Brad G
I’ve been thinking that public roads would make good solar sites. Walmart’s large private parking lots would are another prime idea.
#8 Rashiid Amu069
Did you change your name? Naughty naughty!
#10 nasaman
I know
1) people want trucks and SUVs, and
2) E-FLEX/E-REV trucks and SUVs would be better than ICE trucks and SUVs.
An E-FLEX/E-REV truck or SUV is a step in the right direction, but 32Hwy/25City will only delay the problems associated with petroleum-base vehicles. I suppose we could buy a bevy of vehicles and use the one that fits the task. That can get expensive. There needs to be a better solution that would allow us to use only so much vehicle as the task demands. (Electric) motor vehicle sharing?
#19 Large Smile
Some of your past comments were so bitter that you lost credibility with me. This time I saw your name on a comment and skipped over it, dismissing you as a crank. I decided to go back and read your comment, then say something to you. I was pleasantly surprised to see that, although your viewpoint seems the same, your presentation was much easier to take. To me, you seem worth listening to again.
#22 Luke
Thank you for bringing some complicated numbers into the issue. I appreciate this site for its informed discussion.
#25 GM Volt Fan
I share your enthusiasm for the Volt. GM’s financials blunt my joy; could they affect Volt progress?
#27 statik
I get you. You see the prize and you see the problems. Seeing the problems helps navigate topwards the prize. I’m glad you are with us.
#30 Jason M. Hendler
I’m sorry to hear about your old man’s negativity. It must have been tough to live with. At least you didn’t turn out that way. I hope your positivity about GM navigating this difficult time comes to fruition.
I’m pretty sure Statik is on our side. We all want the promise of the Volt and E-Flex. Statik isn’t being negative just to be negative. He has substance behind his comments (and humor out front). It is hard to argue with him - logically. His leveI of sophistication and intelligence deserves respect, even if you disagree with his position.
Arch
Yesterday, that dude was too rude to you. Keep it coming brutha!
June 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
#43 Rashiid
Tag is a wise, wise man.
Actually I don’t know about Monday. It may not, lol. There is alot of technical levels that where/are being pressed up against last week and especially at the close friday. (Especially thinking of the S&P).
I wouldn’t be surprised to have some kind of gov’t soothing talk going into the trade.
So I actually expect some kind of support on the short term next week. Of course I am saying that having a mix right now of 85% cash, 5% US equity, 10% Canadian corporate bonds…so my actions at the moment do not mirror my sentiment.
If it does have a breakdown again we are really going to have a ride…and not just GM.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
#38, Guy Incognito,
Corporate welfare? Depends on the circumstances. If our government LENDS money to the automakers, so that they can convert their fleet to renewable energy sources, then that is an EXCELLENT policy, as it solves so many problems beyond just keeping domestic automakers in business.
Giving research grants to propellor heads, who chase infeasible solutions, so that they can win an abstract efficiency penis measuring contest, is a BAD policy.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
statik,
I serve this site by pointing out that you only list the risks that GM is taking, which everyone already knows. You fail to provide the requisite context - Chrysler is already in receivership, and Ford is less than a year away. GM will be the survivor of these hard times, because they have worked multiple paths - E85, mild hybrids and now E-REV’s. No stone is left unturned.
GM will unquestionably receive federal loans to ride out the economic downturn, because their policies are currently in line with government policies - meeting 2007 CAFE standards while planning longterm for PFCV’s and REEV’s.
I will call you out everyday for stating the obvious risks GM is taking, given that they started out in a bad position.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm
First, personal attacks are rarely appropriate on this board. Second, leave your parent out of this. Kinda sad.
Second, Statik is ALWAYS right (except when I say he’s not
), and his predictions add to the fun of the game we all play here: “when/IF/how much/what color will the Volt be?”. Far too many of the posts are irrelevant or giantly mis-informed (eg “How come we can’t just power it with water/hydrogen/solar cells that I read about on-line”)
So, while nudging the fellow is ok (he likes it), you will simply look stupid by comparison by using personal attacks to support non-arguments..
June 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Hi Guys & Gals
I have not posted anything for a while, but I am a little baffled by all the bashing going on.
Let’s keep it to the issue and keep up the good discussions.
I love reading opinions from the whole community. Everyone has there own view and desires. A little more on fact and a less on emotion would be appreciated.
This Static guy seems to have some insider info. I don’t know what he does for a job, but WOW he publishes a lot of facts, and most seem be on target (He/She may say ALL ARE ON TARGET, but I am not going to argue the point). As I see it, he is either a single guy with lot’s of time to research and report, or he is working at GM in a position that would emerge him in a lot of the financials of GM.
I am pretty sure I am out of the market for the Volt, at least until I hear differently on price/delivery. I really cannot afford even the $30k car, and will most likely be waiting for the 2009 models from other manufacturers. It appears 2009 may bring out a lot of options, not currently available, from many car manufacturers.
Keep it real and simple…
June 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pm
EDIT: I wrote a whole big retort…but I said I wouldn’t…my record speaks for itself.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pm
#48 Biodieseljeep
“…nudging the fellow is ok (he likes it), ”
-Who doesn’t like a good nudge…makes life exciting. I live on that, hehe.
I just want you to know I appreciate your kind words, and that of some others, who I consider to be friends…albeit (all be it?) on the internet.
It is nice sometimes to have others defend you from time to time. Somedays being the contrarian is like subjecting yourself to death by a thousand papercuts, not today. Thanks.
#49 JEC
“As I see it, he is either a single guy with lot’s of time to research and report,”
Don’t you know? I’m a extremely attractive 18 year old girl, 110 pounds, who is very lonely…Could you send me some money so that I could come and see you?” (Aren’t we all though? This is still the internet, although possibly one of the most complex spots on it…except of course wherever Nasaman spends all his free time)
June 21st, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Statik and his girlfriends,
Go ahead and kick up more gorilla dust, and rally around each other, when faced down, but I will be right here, day after day, pointing out that Statik is merely pointing out the obvious risks and consequences to GM’s business plan, given GM’s starting point and the concurrent economic problems of oil prices and energy trade deficits.
Statik is cheering and jawboning for GM’s demise, and he is far from some expert or GM insider divining the future. This I will also point out, day after day.
A true visionary would point out how every automaker has now announced a Li Ion based development effort, even teaming with competitors to do so, which is a result of GM’s leadership in developing the Chevy Volt. Even Toyota, which initially disparaged GM’s approach to hybrids, is now scrambling to copy, copy, copyyyyyyy their work.
You only speculate on GM’s downside risks and consequences, while ignoring their vision and leadership in the industry. You also discount the federal government’s desire to help the auto industry solve our energy problems, which in this year’s election, will be the difference in who is elected President.
I will be keeping an eye out for you.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:12 pm
ThombDbhomb, #44. says “#8 Rashiid Amu069
Did you change your name? Naughty naughty!”
Ya, how embarrassing. lol. I honestly didn’t realize that I had did that until after I posted a few comments. :*)
——–
On a more serious note, ThombDbhomb, you are right about Arch. That attack on him was really unwarranted.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Hendler
Enough already.
You sound like Big Bro’ with your “I am watching” comment.
Don’t worry so much about what others say, just contribute some useful, and thought provoking information.
This site can be both serious, along with a little fun (Life slips by fast, don’t get caught watching your rear view mirror)
June 21st, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Statik, #50, I read it before you edited it. It was good.
Jason M. Hendler, #52. Three things.
1) I’m not a girl
2) I’m not statik’s girlfriend.
3) It won’t matter who is elected president. That person will still have to deal with that completely useless congress who is controlled by the lobbyists.
Oh BTW, how’s Florida? It must be really hot.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Hi Guys,
Long time lurker first time poster. Just want to echo the others sentiments on the statik financial reporting front. I also enjoy them. Well, maybe ‘enjoy’ isn’t the right word, but you know what I mean. Statik, I know that you live in Canada, but are you Canadian or a displaced American? Not that it really matters; just an idle curiosity really.
And a bit of more bad news on the GM stock front. I just recently sold some stuff on Ebay for a total of about $6500. I’m treating it as found money and my intention is to use it to purchase GM stock. Just a heads up to everyone as this all but guarantees that their chapter 11 proceeding should commence shortly.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Volt nation smack down… We grow our own trolls now.
For the record, I tend to believe that Jason has the higher ground here. Altho Statik may serve a useful purpose in keeping us attuned to the economic realities of the moment instead of floating away in some delusional balloon of idealistic chauvinism or gaeaism, there is certainly no glee to be garnered from the situation nor smugness and accoulades in being right.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
The way for the US federal government to keep GM out of bankruptcy is to purchase Volts in advance, to be delivered in increments by 2015, at $40K each. Every 25K purchased injects $1B cash into GM. Purchasing Volts in advance creates some stability in outlook. There can be a requirement that the cars and batteries be made in NA (not necessarily US). The main negative is that these purchases will put a floor under the price for everyone else.
From the feds viewpoint it may be worth it to avoid the social consequences of a bankruptcy. From a policy viewpoint it may be worth it to accelerate the transition to electric vehicles. It’s a lot better than just giving (”lending”) GM the same number of billions.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
GM will survive and there is no question about it. JMH #47 is correct and even if GM did get these loans (not saying they necessarily will) they will pale in comparison to the help major Japanese firms have received from Uncle San over the decadeS to ensure world domination. No one ever talks about that when they sing the praises of Toyota, Honda et al.
JMH is also correct on GM’s strategic position. One thing not often mentioned is that GM offers and will offer more flex (E-85) capable vehicles than anyone else. This is important because as Nasaman mentioned GM nor any manufacturer can ignore trucks, they’re just too important to many and will continue to sell although slower than before. Personally I think now that they’ve halted future truck development, they should continue enhancement by taking another bold step and mandating that ALL vehicles produced are flex fuel capable. The price difference between ethanol and gas is about a dollar in favor of ethanol and will continue to grow.
We don’t have E-Rev yet, and we’ve got to get there. Ethanol capable vehicles are the short term answer as the number of stations and planned stations continue to grow.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:42 pm
So that I get a personal benefit out of my wise advice, maybe the feds also could pre-purchase some EREV trucks, and then they would then be designed and built, and I could buy one too
June 21st, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Just bought a Chevy Cobalt to replace my Ford Expedition. I decided not to wait until 2011 to do something about the situation. While there is great temptation to buy something other then GM like the Honda Civic, I thought I would show my support for GM and bought the Cobalt instead. Didn’t hurt that GMAC has 0% financing right now. Plan is to trade it in when I get the chance to buy the Volt.
Instead of all the whining and complaining maybe some of the rest of you should consider doing the same. Buying some GM stock might not be such a bad idea either.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Oops..forgot to post the link I intended:
http://www.wndu.com/gas/headlines/19578974.html
June 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Another way for the feds to flow money into GM that might have more political appeal is to give everyone a big income tax credit for the purchase of an EREV type electric vehicle, say $20K per person, good from now until 2015. Then we are talking about millions and millions of vehicles and collectively a significant change in gas usage in the USA. Of course, giving the tax credit will make the vehicle price higher, but flowing funds to GM is part of the goal. The credit will have to be worded carefully so that it is a tax credit for GM and Ford, not excluding Toyota but not working primarily to their advantage. it will help everyone over time, if it creates a big electric vehicle market.
But it is not going to fly if they keep up this CA,FL,NY,DC discussion. It has to be for the whole USA.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
#56 rs1971
“Statik, I know that you live in Canada, but are you Canadian or a displaced American? Not that it really matters; just an idle curiosity really.”
I am Canadian actually by birth. However, I had a dellusions of gandeur to become a professional ballplayer when I was young. So I started doing US tours/exchanges when I was 13 in all the southern states, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, etc.
Got a scholarship to play ball in the US and moved there when I was 18.(Div 1–holy tuition you guys got there, I don’t know how any average working class family does it, 30K+ a year? ouch).
I toiled for awhile after that, never did had a losing season. But aparently the Yankess weren’t looking for a light throwing (85mph tops) righty, lol. Go figure. Moved back to Canada (near TO).
I guess you could call me a displaced Canadian in America for awhile. My major was accounting/economics. Although for some reason my schedule always including Badminton. No kidding! It was a fluff ’selective’, and surprisingly, littered with 250lb guys from the football team. Imagine a 250 pound monster playing against a 110 pound cheerleader at badminton…Go, go higher education!
I suspect this explains…too much.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
So, Statik, please keep us up to date on the badminton circuit, too
June 21st, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Rashid,
Florida is nice, as long as you live on the water. I am on an island off the east coast of Florida. Generally, it is a few degrees cooler in the summer and a few degrees warmer in the winter, if you live on the ocean.
It rained here today, so there is a very cool breeze blowing through my condo today.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
As an aside, a buddy works for GM and I got to drive a Tahoe Hybrid today. Ignoring the $50k price tag it ran great. Interesting to have the engine stop right after start up and then drive on full electric.
I took it around the block a couple of times (maybe 2 miles total and up to 30 MPH) and the engine came on only once when I floored it and shutdown on the next stop. Seamless. I don’t think the EV range is much over 5 miles. He said he is seeing 22-23 MPG highway at 70. The EV apparently kicks in and out because the MPG will jump to 35 for a distance then drop back down. I need to read up on that because something seems logical. Why bother wasting gas charging the battery only to use it up.
Just a taste, but a sweet taste!
June 21st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
#67 TBK
I have said this before, GM is the master at the large SUV. They know their stuff. The Escalade? Pure genius in the development and the marketing (which was extensively to NOT market it, just have it in ‘the public eye’). And it gives the customer exactly what they want.
GM should clearly not abandon this market. It is where GM really excels. If the housing market didn’t fall of the cliff, and the economy with it….or the gas prices didn’t skyrocket, this truely could have been GM’s piece of the pie to get fat off of and to get stronger. It’s decimation has really hurt GM (and moreso Ford) badly. The segment has taken a major haircut, and it looks to get alot smaller still…but it is still a segment nonetheless. A quarter of a piece of cake isn’t as good as a whole cake…but it’s still tasty.
The segment could still be a bright light for GM with some well placed EREVs…not ‘mild hybrids’ (they are virtual orphans now, no one is going to pay a extra $6,000 bucks to get 3 more MPGs). Even a smaller, high efficiency engine in a light truck would probably do the trick to get the ball rolling.
All those ‘truck guys’ are still out there, and they would love nothing more to have a option to go to as they turn in the keys in on their Yukons and Tahoes.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:50 pm
A week ago Mr Lutz was quoted as saying that GM was “close” to signing a battery contract. Still no word that has happened, so I guess they were not too close. What is going on here? At this point my guess is that every week of delay in signing the contract is a week of delay in the Volt’s introduction — the car is built around it, in effect, and the battery is just too critical to go foward without knowing exactly what it will be.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:57 pm
GM, the “mild” hybrids like the Malibu are bandaids. Didn’t you learn a lesson from the “mild” hybrid Silverado/Sierra pickups? Even the full “2-mode” hybrid Tahoe is still just a bandaid. The problem; they are ICE vehicles with electric assist. Don’t waste your limited funds making vehicles that nobody wants or can’t afford to drive.
I think I speak for thousands if not millions of CAR, SUV, VAN, and TRUCK drive