Comments on: GM May Offer a 20-Mile Range Version of the Chevy Volt http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:53:37 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Tagamet http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-55344 Tagamet Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:42:54 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-55344 PDNFTT PDNFTT

]]> By: Ken Langley http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-55342 Ken Langley Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:07:48 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-55342 GM....Pray for EEstor!!! Before I buy your 20 mile, 35K VOLT, I will start riding my bicycle.. and I won't have to worry about having to push my VOLT home with dead batteries...how much has GM you spent to date on this?? No government bail-out....bye bye GM.... GM….Pray for EEstor!!!

Before I buy your 20 mile, 35K VOLT, I will start riding my bicycle.. and I won’t have to worry about having to push my VOLT home with dead batteries…how much has GM you spent to date on this??

No government bail-out….bye bye GM….

]]> By: Brian Blum http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-48048 Brian Blum Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:19:14 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-48048 The 20 mile range is ridiculous. People who only drive 20 miles a day will be surprised. I rented a RAV4 in 2001 with a 100 mile range. I watched the battery drop 25% in 6 miles climbing up Palos Verdes hill in LA. Pretty scary when you are not near a recharging station. Of course you got 9% back going back down. Most 7 mile commutes have side trips to the store, barber, etc. which increase the mileage substantially. The loss of this flexibility means you mine as well use the bus. A 20 mile range car is very limiting for most people and the PR from seeing stranded VOLTS will devastate their image. A series hybid option makes sense, they need to find better ways to reduce cost unfortunately they might not be able to eat the lose for the first five years while they get their costs down and volume up. The 20 mile range is ridiculous. People who only drive 20 miles a day will be surprised. I rented a RAV4 in 2001 with a 100 mile range. I watched the battery drop 25% in 6 miles climbing up Palos Verdes hill in LA. Pretty scary when you are not near a recharging station. Of course you got 9% back going back down. Most 7 mile commutes have side trips to the store, barber, etc. which increase the mileage substantially. The loss of this flexibility means you mine as well use the bus. A 20 mile range car is very limiting for most people and the PR from seeing stranded VOLTS will devastate their image. A series hybid option makes sense, they need to find better ways to reduce cost unfortunately they might not be able to eat the lose for the first five years while they get their costs down and volume up.

]]> By: Michael http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-47778 Michael Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:57:37 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-47778 I believe that people could be convinced to invest in vehicles with a different and longer term mindset than they do today. If the vehicle could be more durable so that 15 years was a "normal" car lifespan then longer term finance would make sense. People would refurbish and remodel rather than replace. The focus should be on durability and re-sale value, just like it is with real estate. Making the car a more durable and reliable asset would encourage the market to come up with creative financing options. If it becomes this kind of asset (much less depreciating than cars of today) then who cares (within reason) how much it costs? $60k for 100m? Bring it on. I believe that people could be convinced to invest in vehicles with a different and longer term mindset than they do today.

If the vehicle could be more durable so that 15 years was a “normal” car lifespan then longer term finance would make sense. People would refurbish and remodel rather than replace. The focus should be on durability and re-sale value, just like it is with real estate.

Making the car a more durable and reliable asset would encourage the market to come up with creative financing options. If it becomes this kind of asset (much less depreciating than cars of today) then who cares (within reason) how much it costs? $60k for 100m? Bring it on.

]]> By: kevin http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-46689 kevin Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:13:49 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-46689 While you all are bickering about 20miles versus 40miles, you seem to miss the fact that the 40 miler gets 640 miles to tank of fuel .So what if its only 20 miles of electric only range you're still going to get 620 miles to the tank . Thats still over 51 mpg . More if you have access to an outlet , and emissions will be much less than present day hybrids! The question that remains is affordability. If only the upper middle class can afford one its pointless the masses need an affordable low to mid $20k option. not $35-40k or more . While you all are bickering about 20miles versus 40miles, you seem to miss the fact that the 40 miler gets 640 miles to tank of fuel .So what if its only 20 miles of electric only range you’re still going to get 620 miles to the tank . Thats still over 51 mpg . More if you have access to an outlet , and emissions will be much less than present day hybrids!

The question that remains is affordability. If only the upper middle class can afford one its pointless the masses need an affordable low to mid $20k option. not $35-40k or more .

]]> By: noel park http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-46419 noel park Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:30:43 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-46419 #3 Jason M. Hendler: Exactly right. As Dr. Maturin would say, "I am of your mind exactly." #3 Jason M. Hendler:

Exactly right. As Dr. Maturin would say, “I am of your mind exactly.”

]]> By: M1EK http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-46406 M1EK Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:16:03 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-46406 Amazing. You guys STILL don't realize you've been played for suckers in a GM FUD attempt that went wrong. Amazing. You guys STILL don’t realize you’ve been played for suckers in a GM FUD attempt that went wrong.

]]> By: Jason The Saj http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-46370 Jason The Saj Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:54:01 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-46370 What would be sweet. Is if they designed the battery packs to be easily dropped out of the bottom. So you would simply place the Volt on a lift. Unbolt the battery pack. And lift the car up and away. Pop-in a new or upgraded battery pack. Lower the Volt down. Bolt & go... (well, re-connect the power cord). *lol* What would be sweet. Is if they designed the battery packs to be easily dropped out of the bottom. So you would simply place the Volt on a lift. Unbolt the battery pack. And lift the car up and away.

Pop-in a new or upgraded battery pack. Lower the Volt down. Bolt & go… (well, re-connect the power cord). *lol*

]]> By: Dave G http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-46349 Dave G Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:59:53 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-46349 #220 john1701a, All DC brushless motors use 3-phase alternating current pulses between inverter/converter and motor. This is just Toyota's marketing department playing games with names. The fact is that Toyota does not use an AC INDUCTION motor. When most engineers say "AC motor" they mean induction. AC induction motors use coils instead of magnets in the rotor, and this makes the software in the controller much more complex, but also makes the motor much more efficient in higher power applications. Permanent magnet based motors (whatever you call them) don't scale well to higher power applications. In addition, magnets aren't cheap, so a larger motor based on magnets will be expensive. This is why I think Toyota is behind on electric motors. I'm sure they can catch up quickly if they want to, but there are still a lot of detailed design issues and testing that will take some time. Again, if you want details on the difference between brushless and induction motors, look here: teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45 #220 john1701a,

All DC brushless motors use 3-phase alternating current pulses between inverter/converter and motor. This is just Toyota’s marketing department playing games with names.

The fact is that Toyota does not use an AC INDUCTION motor. When most engineers say “AC motor” they mean induction.

AC induction motors use coils instead of magnets in the rotor, and this makes the software in the controller much more complex, but also makes the motor much more efficient in higher power applications.

Permanent magnet based motors (whatever you call them) don’t scale well to higher power applications. In addition, magnets aren’t cheap, so a larger motor based on magnets will be expensive.

This is why I think Toyota is behind on electric motors. I’m sure they can catch up quickly if they want to, but there are still a lot of detailed design issues and testing that will take some time.

Again, if you want details on the difference between brushless and induction motors, look here:
teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45

]]> By: john1701a http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/13/gm-may-offer-a-20-mile-range-version-of-the-chevy-volt/#comment-46323 john1701a Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:01:36 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1115#comment-46323 <i>>> All parallel hybrids to date have used DC brushless. </i> Prius is not a parallel hybrid, it is a series-parallel. Just accept it already... as well as the reality that the system uses AC electricity, including the motors. https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/1stprius.pdf https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/2ndprius.pdf POWER CABLE = Carries 3-phase <b>Alternating Current (AC)</b> between inverter/converter, motor, generator, and A/C compressor. INVERTER/CONVERTER = Boosts and inverts the high voltage electricity from the HV battery-pack to 3-phase <b>AC electricity</b> that drives the electric motor. The inverter/converter also converts <b>AC electricity</b> from the electric generator and motor to DC that recharges the HV battery-pack. ELECTRIC MOTOR = 3-phase <b>AC permanent magnetic electric motor</b> contained in the transaxle. ELECTRIC GENERATOR = 3-phase <b>AC generator</b> contained in the transaxle. A/C COMPRESSOR = 3-phase <b>AC electrically driven motor</b> compressor. >> All parallel hybrids to date have used DC brushless.

Prius is not a parallel hybrid, it is a series-parallel. Just accept it already… as well as the reality that the system uses AC electricity, including the motors.

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/1stprius.pdf

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/2ndprius.pdf

POWER CABLE = Carries 3-phase Alternating Current (AC) between inverter/converter, motor, generator, and A/C compressor.

INVERTER/CONVERTER = Boosts and inverts the high voltage electricity from the HV battery-pack to 3-phase AC electricity that drives the electric motor. The inverter/converter also converts AC electricity from the electric generator and motor to DC that recharges the HV battery-pack.

ELECTRIC MOTOR = 3-phase AC permanent magnetic electric motor contained in the transaxle.

ELECTRIC GENERATOR = 3-phase AC generator contained in the transaxle.

A/C COMPRESSOR = 3-phase AC electrically driven motor compressor.

]]>