Jun 05

Bob Lutz Test Drives the First Chevy Volt Early Prototype and Says “it Was Electrifying”

 

We have previously heard that the first Chevy Volt developmental prototype has been driving around GMs Milford proving grounds for a couple of weeks.

Last Thursday the two key GM executives who originated the Volt concept got to test drive their brainchild vehicle. This included GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz and VP of global program management Jon Lauckner. Also in accompaniment was Volt Vehicle Line Director Tony Pozawatz.

Witnesses to the event reported that after the roughly 8 mile drive,reaching speeds of nearly 60 mph, Mr. Lutz stepped out of the car with a grin on his face that made him look like “a five year old on Christmas morning.”

Mr. Lutz had the following to say about his monumental experience which he has posted over on his Fastlane Blog:

“Yesterday we announced that the GM Board has approved the Chevrolet Volt program. Yes, development work has been going on in earnest, but now it’s official. In fact, recently, at GM’s Milford Proving Ground, I drove an official “engineering development vehicle” with the 16-kwh lithium-ion battery pack we’ve been testing for our E-Flex System and I have to say – pun half-intended – it was electrifying.

The first impression of the day, however, was made before I even got into the vehicle. It hit me on the drive out to Milford, as I passed gas station after gas station with prices for regular unleaded hugging the $4 mark: This makes the importance and potential of our all-electric glide through our proving ground roads even clearer.

Now, don’t run to the Chevy dealer and order your Volt yet: The “test mule” I drove – a previous-generation Malibu – wasn’t calibrated properly, and there are an awful lot of tests that this battery must pass before it’s cleared for production. Our battery teams in Warrenand in Germanyare working hard in our battery labs to determine that these batteries will work for the life of the vehicle. Still, the conditions in a real-world environment – where the battery is exposed to shaking, moisture and rapidly changing temperature conditions – are much more extreme than the controlled settings of the lab.

But I think it’s important to point out that in the six months since we’ve received the battery pack, we’ve tested it in the lab, then on the dynamometer, and now on the track. Eventually, if and when we settle on the right battery, our E-Flex System engineers will have a lot of integrating, tuning and tweaking to do before the Volt is ready for prime time. And we’ll keep you informed of our progress every step of the way.

Upon future drives, when the vehicle is closer to true calibration, I’ll have more driving details. But I will say that, while the car is still most definitely a work in progress, the thrill of driving electrically — that instant, silent torque — is certainly present and accounted for! Of course, as you can imagine, I miss the throaty roar of an engine. Once we get this whole battery thing perfected, our friends at XM Satellite Radio may have to start an Internal Combustion Channel.”

Thanks for the update Mr. Lutz, these are thrilling times indeed!

See what Bob signed on the prototype’s hood below:


This entry was posted on Thursday, June 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm and is filed under Prototypes, Test drive. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 208


  1. 1
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (1:57 pm)

    Way to go Bob and LYLE…


  2. 2
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:07 pm)

    22 May 08. Yes, history was made on that date. It will be made again soon as we get to see one for ourselves. I can hardly wait.


  3. 3
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:09 pm)

    One small drive for a man, one giant leap for mankind. If I may steal Neil Armstrong’s famous words and change them slightly. I am really proud of GM today, aren’t YOU?


  4. 4
    p2

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:11 pm)

    Nice work team!


  5. 5
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:11 pm)

    Couldn’t tell much about the car from the picture. Is an “engineering develop vehicle” the same as a mule? Or is this a pre-production vehicle?


  6. 6
    Scott

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:12 pm)

    Woohoo! Lutz’s quote says it all. We ARE making history today.


  7. 7
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:14 pm)

    I can see it all now. Somewhere around 2015 some upstart movie producer will make a short documentary movie entitled “Who Saved The Electric Vehicle?” I want to see that one. Bob Lutz and Lyle Dennis should have prominent mention in the documentary.

    Way to go Bob and Lyle. Way to go GM. Go Volt.


  8. 8
    Eric C.

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:15 pm)

    N Riley #5… Not a pre-production, it’s essentially a mule with the full 16kWh pack installed.


  9. 9
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:18 pm)

    Eric C

    Well, I thought so, but I was just hoping. Really can not wait for the show all next month. I do believe it will be in July in the U.S. and not in Europe as some has suggested. Just a month of so until we get to see it.


  10. 10
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:27 pm)

    I have got get off this site for a while and do some work. It gets almost addictive after a while. Keep it going and I’ll catch up with you later.


  11. 11
    Jason M. Hendler

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:32 pm)

    Every piece of news is encouraging, and the news is coming faster and faster, and not just from GM, but Nissan, and other manufacturers that follow GM’s lead.

    As I stated on the previous article, having the factory in Hamtramck, within a stone’s throw of GM headquarters and Tech Center, means the Volt will be showered with attention.


  12. 12
    Glen M

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:43 pm)

    It is good to be the King!


  13. 13
    noel park

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (2:50 pm)

    Get ‘er done boys. Don’t look back, somethin’ might be gainin’ on ya.

    Someone the other day likened this to the great mobilization, both industrial and emotional, which won WWII. I sure hope so! If it is, we can do it together. If not…………………………………


  14. 14
    Mike-o-Matic

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:00 pm)

    #10 N. Riley

    >> this site
    >> gets almost addictive

    ALMOST addictive? I’m almost ready try out methadone at this point! It’s eating an hour-plus of my day, almost every day, just keeping up with all the comments!


  15. 15
    Statik

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:03 pm)

    “Last Thursday the two key GM executives who originated the Volt concept got to test drive their brainchild vehicle”

    Yupe, last thursday, MAY 22ND–2008, which of course was Easter.

    “Let’s wait for the Easter Bunny. Somebody’s going to have egg on their face. And I don’t like having egg on my face.”


  16. 16
    Statik

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:04 pm)

    Yes…I went there.


  17. 17
    Chris

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:13 pm)

    That is awesome. I look forward to having that same feeling as I’m driving past all the gas stations, seeing the $4, $5, $6 per gal signs go by…also looking forward to the “always on” torque.

    Thank you GM.


  18. 18
    MarkinWI

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:21 pm)

    Statik #16: In the big picture, does it really matter if it happend on Easter, or in mid-May? Thought not.


  19. 19
    Murray

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:22 pm)

    I previously mentioned Statik to always be on point….

    I’m a strong believer in “always think the worst…then when things actually do work out…you feel that much better” which is why it is good to have a ‘Statik’ type around…….keeping us Volt-a-holics grounded…..

    but Statik, you lost me on the Easter egg thing…..

    Anyhow, thanks for another great little tidbit here Lyle.


  20. 20
    Casey

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:22 pm)

    This is very exciting. I’m also very interested in seeing some of the other applications of the powertrain. The Volt will be a 4 seater and compact. I would love to see something with some cargo space. I’m waiting on buying a new vehicle until 2010 to see what happens. Toting around a family and a stroller is a necessity for me, as well as intermittent trips to Home Depot and such. This E-Flex platform sounds very versatile. I’m sure GM’s CUVs like the Vue and Outlook could be updated with this powertrain as well. If they got 20 electric-only miles, they would be perfect.


  21. 21
    Robert

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:23 pm)

    EV-1 made history!


  22. 22
    Shep

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:24 pm)

    YES!!! America’s gonna kick some import butt!!! I want mine painted “stars and stripes”!!


  23. 23
    Statik

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:31 pm)

    #18 MarkinWI

    Well, in November he said March, four months…and it turned out to be six. About 50 percent longer.

    They said the Volt is coming to market in 2009, then 2010, then late 2010 about 6 months ago about the same time as the Easter claim.

    It’s a trend…and the trend is whatever they say, is too ambitious. (Akin to the sub 30k tag, or the fancy roof or the big gas tank or the look of the exterior or….etc.etc.)

    Keeping with being 50 percent behind. I’ll ask you, in the big picture…do you mind waiting for your new Volt expected by Nov 2010 to come in June 2012? (provided you are still the one of the ‘early ones’).

    I think you will.

    I think you will.


  24. 24
    Statik

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:34 pm)

    #19 Murray

    That’s me…the lightning rod, lol.

    That quote, “Let’s wait for the Easter Bunny. Somebody’s going to have egg on their face. And I don’t like having egg on my face.” is from Bob Lutz when he and Toyota where having a ‘whose stick is bigger competition”

    Read the original Lutz quote in all it’s glory here:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/20/lutz-promises-viable-demonstration-of-volt-by-easter/


  25. 25
    bruce g

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:36 pm)

    That mule will be worth a zillion dollars one day.


  26. 26
    bruce g

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:38 pm)

    Notice it was the white mule, not the red one.


  27. 27
    Jim I

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:41 pm)

    Statik:

    You really are a glass half empty kind of guy………….

    Please let us have some good news now and then without your perpetual rain cloud spoiling the parade!

    I look forward to the day you buy your Volt, and post a glowing review of the car and how happy you are that you made your purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :)


  28. 28
    Robert G

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:45 pm)

    The Volt program at GM is the kind of thing that only Bob Lutz could do. After so many years as the industry acclaimed ultimate motor head, it is poetic that he should drive the first spike into the coffin of the internal combustion engine. If Bob and GM are serious this time about the viability of electric vehicles, then the planets have truly aligned. Perhaps Mr. Lutz had a cathartic moment at Excide. What ever the reason, I embrace this attempt to re-prioritize GM’s business model to address environmental and economic pressures to do what right instead of what’s expedient. The team that brought us Hummers and Vipers will now escort us into the light. I think I’ve seen everything.


  29. 29
    mien green

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:51 pm)

    Oooh, check out the cup holders, vato!


  30. 30
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:53 pm)

    Jim I

    Yes Statik is a half empty glass kind of guy. The only thing is his glass is upside down, sometimes. But he is a fun read. Interesting, Interesting.


  31. 31
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (3:58 pm)

    You know, seeing Lyle in front of that sliver Volt makes me re-think my choice of white. I love white cars, but a sliver one would look great. But I do not like black or grey interiors. And that is about all any sliver colored vehicles ever seem to ship with.


  32. 32
    N Riley

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (4:03 pm)

    Darn, I can’t seem to spell today. Should be silver…………..


  33. 33
    NZDavid

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (4:22 pm)

    Statik, Please see my #70 previous thread for Clothing details, wants.

    Mien Green. Yep gotta get one now. lol.

    Looks like Lyle should be on track to get his ride with the other Journos next month. Can’t wait for that report. As noel says

    Tick Tock, Tick Tock, Tick Tock.


  34. 34
    mien green

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (4:41 pm)

    N Riley:
    “I love white cars, but a sliver one would look great.”

    You blinked.


  35. 35
    Dave

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (4:49 pm)

    Please tell me Mr. Bob Clutz that your going to produce the body type like we’ve seen in the auto show. I don’t want a Malibu body on this car, I want what I saw at the auto show, in the magazines and on the websites. I want something different!


  36. 36
    Jim

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (4:56 pm)

    Can someone please tell me why GM can only get the volt to do 40 miles per charge when the Telsa Roadster gets 220 miles per charge? You would think GM would have a knowledge base that would blow any private car maker off the map. I’m so confused (picture Vinnie Barbarino saying this)


  37. 37
    NZDavid

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:06 pm)

    #35 Jim

    The Tesla has a 56 kWh battery vs. the Volts 16kWh battery.
    The Tesla costs $109,000 for the base model Vs. the Volts est. $30 – 40,000.
    The Tesla seats two people. The Volt seats four people.


  38. 38
    DaveP

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:09 pm)

    Statik:
    Fair is fair, they had the prototype out running before Easter, and Lutz didn’t claim he had to be driving it personally by then:
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/14/big-news-from-bob-lutz-first-chevy-volt-prototype-hits-the-road-and-gets-40-miles-electric/

    Lutz was probably too busy out securing financing or something to have time to drive it between then and now. :)

    But in any case, if Lutz is anything, he is certainly a car guy and if he enjoyed driving it, it’s probably going to be fun to drive.

    Keep up the good work, GM.


  39. 39
    Tom Thias

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:09 pm)

    Jim-35

    http://www.teslamotors.com/
    http://www.teslamotors.com/design/under_the_skin.php

    “several thousand consumer grade lithium-ion cells” $$$

    Cost $106,000.00


  40. 40
    Jim

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:13 pm)

    #36 NZDavid

    Thanks David but you would think that GM could do an “upper” end model that would do in between the two. I would guess even though your paying a little more for a higher end model you would still save a bundle in cash from using less gas. Work for me is 31 miles each way so the Volt gas motor would kick on to charge the batteries on the way home eliminating some savings in gas purchases.


  41. 41
    Grizzly

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:15 pm)

    #36 NZDavid

    ” #35 Jim
    The Tesla has a 56 kWh battery vs. the Volts 16kWh battery.
    The Tesla costs $109,000 for the base model Vs. the Volts est. $30 – 40,000. The Tesla seats two people. The Volt seats four people.”

    **** **** ****

    The Volt is also being designed so that it’s batteries last 10 years or 150K miles. Tesla….???….. Tesla warranty???


  42. 42
    Jim

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:18 pm)

    #38 Tom,

    Good point but like any technology…. Prices will come down with mass production. Remember Plasma TVs when they first came out? I purchased my 55 inch Hitachi last year for $2K, 5 years ago it was $10k (estimates of course). Check out the Volt website. They were comparing two battery packs. Check out the specs size and energy output between the two releases…..


  43. 43
    Exp_EngTech

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:19 pm)

    #26 Jim I wrote

    “Statik:
    You really are a glass half empty kind of guy………….
    Please let us have some good news now and then without your perpetual rain cloud spoiling the parade!”
    ……..

    I agree.

    I hereby christen you with the nickname …… Eeyore.

    Lyle, please make the change to his username.


  44. 44
    Firefly

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:24 pm)

    Now that these announcements have been made, perhaps we can start planning the 1st annual Volt owners barbecue…I’ll bring the plates.


  45. 45
    Rob Sauce

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:47 pm)

    Roll it out as fast as you can! Like our very lifes are dependent on it! Because it is ! This triumph can turn America back into the great innovators we are, and lead our econmy into the next century!


  46. 46
    Dave G

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (5:56 pm)

    #35 Jim,
    The Volt is targeted at 40 miles per charge (MPC) because most people drive less than 40 miles per day. This is classic 80/20 marketing. You start with a product that covers 80% of the market, and then after that’s successful, you go after the other 20%.

    Also, the Tesla Roadster is a pure battery electric vehicle (BEV). The Volt is an extended range electric vehicle (E-REV). So if you want to take a cross country tour, the Tesla Roadster wont work, but the Volt will. By the way, Tesla’s plans for their 3rd generation car to be a range extended electric vehicle (they call it REEV) for around $30,000.


  47. 47
    Dave G

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (6:02 pm)

    #39 Jim,
    Doubling the range of the Volt would porbably add around $10,000 to the cost and eliminate the 2 rear seats. On the plus side, you would get a lot more instantanious horsepower.

    Is there any way you can plug in at work?


  48. 48
    Dave G

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (6:25 pm)

    By the way, if anyone wants a spell checker, just install the ieSpell add on. This way you can spell check anything you type anywhere on the internet. Just google ieSpell.

    Of course, you have to remember to run it.


  49. 49
    noel park

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (6:29 pm)

    #45 Dave G:

    Yeah, it’s just a simple 110 or 220v plug. Just drag out an extension cord when the boss isn’t looking, and viola! Or make a deal with him or her to pay for the electricity.


  50. 50
    noel park

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (6:33 pm)

    #43 Rob Sauce:

    Amen. Preach on brother!


  51. 51
    NZDavid

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (6:35 pm)

    #40 Grizzly

    Yep good point I forgot about that!

    Tesla 5 year 100,000 mile warrranty (Lithium Cobolt), the Volt 10 year 150,000 Mile warranty (Lithium Iron).


  52. 52
    Ed M

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:01 pm)

    I can just see future headines now,
    ‘Thanks to the Chevy Volt, American Oil Companies Invite OPEC to bid on supplying oil at $10 per barrell’. .. or ‘Chavez cries foul because Venezula not invited to bid’.

    Sound too good to be true ? With EVs in world wide use it could be a situation where gas needs for the general public will be greatly reduced.

    One thing I do believe that when the Volt catches on and gets even better and if gas prices drop considerably, there’ll be no return to gas vehicles because drivers will prefer the outperforming EVs over gas, hybrids or otherwise. Gas has had its day like buggy whips.


  53. 53
    Luke

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:05 pm)

    Dave G # 46,

    An option for everyone (not just Windows users) is the Mozilla Firefox browser, which includes a spell checker. See:
    http://www.mozilla.com
    I use it daily on Linux and Mac OS X! I also recommend the Adblock Plus plugin.


  54. 54
    gsned57

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:16 pm)

    Just wanted to throw this out there, GM is looking to buy battery manufacturer cobasys from Energy Conversion Devices and Chevron. These guys have been making the hybrid batteries for Saturn. Although it has been posted here before that Cobasys will have nothing to do with the Volt, I gotta figure they wouldn’t be buying a battery company just to let a third party make their batteries. Might not make it into the Volt but future EV’s will probably use em.

    http://www.autonews.com/

    Been loving the great news lately. Thanks Lyle for keeping us up to date.


  55. 55
    Tom

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:29 pm)

    “Our battery teams in Warrenand in Germany are working hard in our battery labs to determine that these batteries will work for the life of the vehicle.”

    What does that mean? The batteries will last super long, or the car won’t? I hope we don’t have to buy a new Volt when the battery craps out! :) Or…that the batteries are specially patented that ONLY their battery will work in it…crushing any after market options for a replacement battery?


  56. 56
    o.jeff

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:34 pm)

    Bob’s post is a little worrying to me. His comments on the driving experience of the Volt powertrain were very restrained — especially for Bob Lutz! He called it a “work in progress,” which is true, of course. However, I am sure the engineers did all the easy adjustments before inviting Bob over for a drive!

    One wonders how the mass of the mule compares to the mass of the future Volt vehicle.

    o.jeff


  57. 57
    Ed M

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:34 pm)

    For those who prefer the throaty roar of a gas engine, (Bob Lutz), they can put a cd in their disc player called the sound of obsolescence and they can hear that throaty roar while they’re driving in their EV.


  58. 58
    Peteski

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:40 pm)

    2010 is the new NEVER. Get a clue. Bob Lutz (older than John McCain) can’t taste his food anymore.


  59. 59
    Ed M

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:49 pm)

    Tom 53
    I think the folks that show the most battery innovation will win the GM contract. It wouldn’t be appropriate for a company to do all the R&D and then let some other company produce sub grade knockoffs. Would you even want to risk your vehicle with another makers battery ?
    I doubt that defective battery replacements or upgrades will be much of a concern. GM and their dealers have always stood behind their products and that will most certainly continue.


  60. 60
    DaveP

     

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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:55 pm)

    #52 gsned57
    OK, that’s officially making my head spin. GM started (what would become) Cobasys with the Ovshinsky’s back in the EV-1 days to develop Ovshinsky’s NiMH forumations for batteries for cars. GM sold its 60% share to Texaco (later merged with Chevron and restructured the venture into Cobasys) when they got tired of EVs, cashed in their chips and went home. :)

    Now they want it back?!? Why?
    I’ll bet that’s going to cost them.

    Hmm, plot thickens. A little reading shows that the licensing agreement (settlement :) between Panasonic and Cobasys forbids “Matushita, Toyota, and PEVE (Panasonic) to sell certain NiMH batteries for transportation applications in North America until the second half of 2007, and commercial quantities of certain NiMH batteries in North America until the second half of 2010.”
    (from wikipedia)
    Coincidence then that 2010 is the date for the plug in Prius? Maybe Toyota cannot sell a Prius with bigger batteries any sooner than that. That could be good news for the \Volt, but it’s totally unrelated to buying Cobasys.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (7:57 pm)

    It took me a while to get past the excitement of Bob being able to drive his car and be able to read his comments calmly. I think he is telling us that the car did run but it did not run very well, and they hope to fix it.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (8:11 pm)

    More history on the same day, A123/Hymotion has partnered with Toyota dealers to install their “L5″ PHEV conversion kit. When the next generation Prius hits the showroom, spring of 2009, and the kit is installed, folks will be able to buy a PHEV with about a 20 mile AER for about $37,000. And that is in 2009, not 2011.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (8:16 pm)

    How does it go? And thus a new world has mow begun. Depending upon the outcome of the EEStor devices, the Volt may or may not morph into a more affordable and capable vehicle, but it can be said that , irregardless, the age of electric propulsion has begun. But practical and viable electric propulsion, not the failed technology of the EV-1.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (8:17 pm)

    Thank you Bob Lutz and Jon Lauckner for publicly putting our names and talent behind the VOLT program. I believe that what you guys are doing with the VOLT program will go down in automotive history as a significant positive inflection point.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (8:26 pm)

    kent beuchert

    The technology did not fail for the EV-1, the politics and economics did. The expression “ahead of its time” comes to mind.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (8:46 pm)

    Kent #62

    Thank God the Volt isn’t dependent on Eestor!


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:00 pm)

    I want to believe in GM and the hopes that GM will save the day but I only saw one comment about the real history made with the EV1. The car worked well and had a great following only to be crushed in the desert and the electrical power patent sold off to Texaco. I don’t want to wish ill-will anyone but their practices have brought them to this point. For the factories being shut down and the people that won’t have work, I’m truly sorry for them. I can only hope that Toyota, Nissan or Chrysler can save those people.

    Interesting documentary on GM’s practices of pushing SUVs and killing the electrical car can be found on the web. Very interesting reading.

    http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
    http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:12 pm)

    “GM is just plain lying. Wagoner should be fired for killing the EV1. The GM Board is full of dummies and sycophants. The first step would be to FIRE Wagoner, who destroyed the EV1 and delayed hybrids. Wagoner got lots of money for goofing up GM. Why?? ”

    Sorry, that was just some recent you-tube text from our friend Doug Korthof who was in “Who Killed The Electric Car”.

    http://www.youtube.com/liveoilfree

    Interestingly, despite the recent good news, Doug still seems to be on his anti-GM jihad.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:17 pm)

    P.D.F.T.T.

    ….beat ya to it Tag ;)


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:20 pm)

    Sorry this is off topic, but I just stumbled across this company (apparently legit) that sells battery conversions for several ICE vehicles:

    http://www.lionev.com

    Thought some might find this interesting.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:36 pm)

    About batteries, I’m sure the EV-1 was nice – in California, where frost conditions will make the evening news. I doubt the EV-1′s NiMH battery would fare so well in International Falls, MN in January (now that’s cold!).

    And we have only EEStor’s word that the ultracaps will live up to their hype, they’re so secretive about displaying any sort of prototype. And independent experts on battery chemistry say the ultracaps cannot possible hold such a charge, it’s physically impossible. We will see.

    Right now, GM’s tech’s are testing the Volt’s L-ion battery in harsh enviromental conditions like extreme cold, heat, ability to handle vibration, rapid charge / discharge, etc. They cannot afford to have the Volt’s battery less than perfect for their “moon-shot” vehicle.

    However, I am glad GM is putting massive resources behing the Volt’s development. While Ford is still playing with dead-end hydrogen technology (hard to store, expensive fuel cells, less efficient that electric alone), and Dodge is wading into hybrids with non-plugin technology from the Prius (Yawn), GM is way ahead of the tech curve – right now. Don’t think that Toyota isn’t watching the Volt very carefully. It is a potential Prius killer if brought to market. Prius MPG of 45 / 53 versus Volt MPG of infinity (if driven carefully) is a pretty easy choice to make,

    I hope the Volt has a rear-view mirror, because Bob need to keep looking in it, to see who is catching up. He may see a Toyota in the mirror soon, if the Volt takes too long coming to market.

    Mine’s the metallic gold one with cupholders, as far as the eye can see. Ah, cupholders for my Big Gulp – life is good.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:41 pm)

    “We are making history today.”

    Can we have some perspective, here? What history is that?

    Is this the first 8 mile drive in an electric car? Not by 100 years.

    First 8 mile drive in an RE-EV? Well, it might be. Does it have the ICE in it? Did the ICE fire up? No?

    Then, this is, what, the first 8 mile drive in a warmed-over Malibu EV conversion, which is not even the equal of things people have built recently in their garages, let alone the Toyota Rav4-EV or GM’s own EV-1, by an egomaniacal GM exec?

    Oh, yeah. That’s history in the making.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:52 pm)

    I keep hearing about “How come the Tesla goes 220 miles on a charge and the Volt only goes 40?”

    Keep in mind that if you go on a 500 mile trip, the Telsa is out of juice at 220 and the Volt is still going. Two out of three times a week, maybe more, 40 miles is enough charge for me to not need the range extention. The days I need to go over 100 miles or the plans change last minute, I wouldn’t have to change vehicles.

    A real coup would be several different models with the basic drive system. Give the consumer a choice in styles. I’m not necessarily looking to advertise that I’m driving an E-REV. It’s only important that I know. I don’t care about impressing others with it.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:56 pm)

    #43

    Dang, Eeyore…that would have been sweet handle!

    #27 Jim I

    “Please let us have some good news now and then without your perpetual rain cloud spoiling the parade! I look forward to the day you buy your Volt, and post a glowing review of the car and how happy you are that you made your purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    I can’t do it Jim, I just can’t do it! Side Note: I also look forward to that same day

    #38 Dave P

    “Fair is fair, they had the prototype out running before Easter, and Lutz didn’t claim he had to be driving it personally by then:”
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/14/big-news-from-bob-lutz-first-chevy-volt-prototype-hits-the-road-and-gets-40-miles-electric/

    You know that announcement link is from May 14th right? You know Easter was in March this year?

    That link is the announcement that the mule had hit the track on THE DAY BEFORE (May 13th, 2008)–> check the source link for Bob’s quote, “Tuesday’s (May 13th, 2008) road test comes after last week’s testing of the Volt powertrain on a dynamometer that simulated real-world conditions.”


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (9:57 pm)

    Steve #70

    That 220 also depends on how you drive the vehicle. I could see a lot of people getting much less than that w/o consciously lead-footing it.

    The other point about the Volt is why when you need to go over 40 would you borrow or use another vehicle when the Volt’s RE will afford you 50+ mpg and the option for E85?


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:04 pm)

    In other news:

    CAW leader Buzz Hargrove meets with Wagoner, chief financial officer Fritz Henderson and GM Canada president Arturo Elias tomorrow morning at 8AM.

    This is going to be ugly.

    Here is is quote, “He refused to go over possible courses of action if GM doesn’t honour the collective agreement. We’ll jump off that bridge when we get to it,” he (Buzz) said.

    “These are senior people. I’ve dealt with them for many, many years. I just find it impossible to think they would look me in the eye and say, ‘Yes, we agree, but no, we’re not going to (reverse the decision).” Refering to GM signing off on a new deal two weeks ago that guaranteed production through 2011, and agreeing to produce the next gen light truck body in the Oshawa plant.

    I dunno if the link will work, I’ll try to post it the next box…but you can google if your really interested.

    Gm may face a wildcat strike as a possibility if it goes badly. It wouldn’t be so bad except for the face GM produces the Impala at max capacity (5,500/wk) and everyone they can make is already sold. Total inventory is under 22 days atm. Thats 1,100 a day @ 25k a pop…27.5 million/per day lost…probably not what GM really wants to see happen at this moment.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:05 pm)

    Hi Steve, GM has made it pretty clear that the “E-Flex Architecture” (that’s what they call the Volt’s drive system) will eventually migrate to many other vehicles. The Volt is just the first one, so it’s getting all the attention.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:06 pm)

    Yupe, I tried to post the link…site doesn’t like yahoo forwards.

    I’ll try a similar story from the Toronto Star

    http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/437616


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:12 pm)

    How do convertibles make out in the wind tunnel tests? Red convertible – would be nice!


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:18 pm)

    A whole lot of people today and other days as well keep clamoring for a larger battery pack. I am clamoring for just the opposite.

    I want an all electric range of 100000 miles. But there are trade offs. By upping the range to 60 or 80 or 200 miles per charge you are cutting the number of cars and trucks that can be built on the e-flex system. Battery production isn’t unlimited.

    I would much rather have a 20mpc vehicle that gets me on average 125 miles per gallon than to watch someone else drive their 40mpc vehicle while I am waiting in line for mine. If I could charge at work I wouldn’t spend any money on gas with the 20mpc vehicle unless I go out of town.

    Actually right now I would love to be able to buy a vehicle with the e-flex system with only a 1mpc capability but the ability to upgrade the battery later. That would get me better mileage than the prius gets or at least as much.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:27 pm)

    # 60 DaveP
    Oh no, please tell me you’re jocking right. They aren’t really going to buy Cobasys and the NiMH tech back?

    From GCC:”China has virtually stopped the export of lanthanum, a rare earth metal that you need for NiMH-batteries. It will last until 2010 and 2011 before Lynas and Arafura, two australian companies, will start a rare earth production outside of China. The small Mountain Pass mine in California can’t help much to lower the shortage.”

    Also from the same article: “Reported US sales of hybrids in May 2008 declined 20% from May 2007 to 35,943 units. This drop is largely, but not solely, due to a 37% drop in sales of the Prius to 15,011 units in May 2008 from 24,009 units in May 2007. Toyota characterized the decline as due to “limited availability”.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:28 pm)

    I’d like to take a minute to pat myself on the back as this seems to be a slow post night:

    http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/#comments

    Post #11, two days before annual meeting:
    “Tuesday is going to be ex-ci-ting. We get the May autosales…GM is going to have to come clean on future SUV outlook and US market share…along with their fancy new plans for a ‘bold future’”

    -AND-

    http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/30/gm-buys-out-19000-workers-time-to-get-lean-and-green/#comments

    Post #3 Four days before the meeting:
    “… look for further ‘restructuring’ at the meeting. Certainly reducing truck shifts is a given (and possibly foreshadowing of which plants will be shuttered) and trying to move some workers to cars…and getting rid of another 5-7K possibly”


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:41 pm)

    Hey Folks, how about a quick break for another “electrifying event”?

    Electric dragster sets a world record of 160mph/7.63secs in the 1/4mi!

    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Worlds-Quickest-Electric_163899.htm?emc=el&m=182544&l=9&v=9ef8dc5753


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:45 pm)

    My above comment in moderation but here’s the link.

    http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=43162

    Check out para 10 & From the two above the graph down.
    Scary stuff.

    Tag I need a couch!


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:47 pm)

    #79 Nasaman

    Thats pretty sweet! I love any kind of electric propulsion, it’s so earily quiet.

    Hope there wasn’t any blind people or small children on bicycles going across the track, they would have gotten hit.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:51 pm)

    nasaman, that’s awesome. And, so, so quiet, hehehe.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:57 pm)

    An article on A123/Hymotion for all you Prius owners.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/06/a123systemshymo.html#more

    Only 10K for 1/3 of what the Volt will have. Kinda puts the est. $30 – 40K price in perspective really. IMHO.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (10:59 pm)

    Plugging in at work works if you live in colder climates in Canada….I have plug in access most places….I cannot wait for this car…It is most definatley my next vehicle.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:01 pm)

    #79 Nasaman

    I love it! Any of us who have worked with electric motors for cars know that they make the most torque at 0 RPM. Its a new game if we can keep it going.We lost in the 70s. I hope we make it this time.

    Take Care
    Arch


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:02 pm)

    #80 NZDavid

    I read the article, I too have wondered from time to time about the supply of raw materials for batteries. Not so much at current levels of consumption, but if EV cars are widely accepted (I think most of us agree they will be).

    However, the caveat to this is the initial estimate on the rate at which it can be extracted and the reserve in the ground. Alot of times (like oil), the number is construed out of thin air, without forward looking thought on the resources of those companies who are extracting it.

    IE) Every year more oil is needed and more is produced. Worldwide oil reserve estimates seem to go up every year as oil companies find more and more (and look harder and harder) as the market clamours for more.

    As for China currently being almost the sole supplier of such components, this is strictly a cost issue. Fact is, there is lots of it there…and it’s cheap to get. Nobody wanted to drill/dig for oil in Alberta when it was $20/barrel, it costs $30 to get it out…it was ‘non-sensical.’ But as demand grew, the price did as well and it became viable to start pulling oil out of the ground in places you had to pay workers $30/hour…and from non-traditional sources (like the oil sands). The same is true of raw battery components.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:14 pm)

    Statik. What’s your take on the Cobasys buyout? It doesn’t seem to make sense to me.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:17 pm)

    I do take something else from the article.

    It would seem that Toyota and Honda have the cornor on the NiMH battery market. This would explain their reluctance to accept Lithium-ion batteries.

    Also, I don’t know if the general public really care what type of battery is in their EV…just as long as it runs.

    This could be a problem for GM. We all know Lithium battery’s are the ‘bee’s knees,’ but if NiMH batteries are getting popped into EVs/hybrids and they are getting the job done…it may be a case of the better technology is not the adopted one. (Anyone remember Beta? Or HD-DVD today I guess, lol). Cost on production of a NiMH battery is less than a quarter of it’s counterpart Lithium (per kWH)…that might be the deciding factor in the end. I know Lithium is better/faster/lighter…I’m just saying, the market is funny sometimes.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:26 pm)

    Statik #87

    Toyota and Honda do have a lot invested in Nimh as well as Toyota in Hybrid power trains.

    The difference here is that ERev and BEVs are not Hybrids and the dynamics of power / weight /size isn’t in favor of NImh, especially if you intend to seat 4 people and intend to have decent range. Remember that ERev is a BEV not a hybrid which can and does get away with a much smaller battery.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:40 pm)

    #88 Grizzly.

    I agree with you 100 percent. The Lithium is the way to go, it makes the most sense. But people’s wallets are the deciding factor on adoption.

    If you have two cars, or two CUVs (I’m thinking EV RAV for example)… and one is Lithium, 3,000 pounds and goes 200 miles on a charge and the other is NiMH, is 3,300 pounds and goes 150 miles on a charge and you have lost 1/3rd of your trunk, the decision seems simple. However, if the Lithium is $29,999 and the NiMH is $19,999…I can tell you which one sells more.

    Certainly Toyota and Honda have hitched their wagon to NiMH (infrastructure to produce 1.5 million units/per year…mostly for Toyota to plug into the new Prius) and are talking it up to no end (so you know they are nervous about their decision)…but they also have hedged their bets and have started limited capacity Lithium battery factories on the side.


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    Jun 5th, 2008 (11:58 pm)

    #69 dagwood55

    If ICEs are phasing out and electrics are phasing in, then the Volt will be a pivotal car that heralds a drastic change in the auto industry. Its progress is much more noteworthy than someone’s garage conversion. Fifty years down the road, that Volt developmental prototype will be a much more valuable collector’s piece than your garage conversion.

    Even if the Volt fails (GASP!), the “moon shot” will still be historically more significant than a garage conversion. Comparing a “moon shot” to a garage conversion is like comparing…(have fun with this, people)


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:10 am)

    After watching Nasaman’s dragster video, I watched the proffered brief interview of Bob Lutz talking about his “other” electric ride… a Vectrix scooter.

    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Bob-lutz-talks-about-his_164847.htm

    Interesting gizmo. Too bad it won’t quite go freeway speeds (60 MPH tops), and costs around 10k (a lot for a scooter IMHO, when you can buy a decent motorcycle new for $5-8k).


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:18 am)

    IF Peak oil happens by 2010 then Li Ion is the way to go.
    I understand the recent rerating of ‘Reserves’ is because oil companies will use the better extraction capacity enabled by EEStor technology. No wait . . .
    /sarcasm off.

    EIA stats: last week US Crude reserves down nearly 5 million barrels.
    Previous week Crude reserves down nearly 9 million barrels. Both in the lower average range for this time of year. Good luck with a hurricane.

    BEV’s and E-REV’s are the future. IMHO.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:37 am)

    “I look forward to having that same feeling as I’m driving past all the gas stations, seeing the $4, $5, $6 per gal signs go by…also looking forward to the “always on” torque.”

    It’s already approaching $4.50 here in Los Angeles. The way things are going you are going to be filling up at $5 and $6 per gallon long before the Volt debuts.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:38 am)

    hey grizz, am i wrong, or does static remind us of another dip who used to post on here in ’07, but no longer shows up, at least under his old name.
    god bless the volt and god bless america!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (1:19 am)

    #60 DaveP said:

    A little reading shows that the licensing agreement (settlement between Panasonic and Cobasys forbids “Matushita, Toyota, and PEVE (Panasonic) to sell certain NiMH batteries for transportation applications in North America until the second half of 2007, and commercial quantities of certain NiMH batteries in North America until the second half of 2010.”

    Your information is out of date. This language is from the original 2004 settlement agreement. One year later Cobasys and PEVE amended the agreement, granting PEVE expanded rights:

    “The expanded rights will permit PEVE to solicit and sell Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) battery products for certain North American transportation applications.”

    http://investor.shareholder.com/ovonics/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=265499

    PEVE could sell large format NIMH in North America today if they wanted. They do not do so because NIMH is not competitive for PHEV or BEV.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (1:57 am)

    GM has two battery contracts suppliers that makes litium -ion batteries, and is going to buy a NIMH battery supplier.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (2:06 am)

    Charging at work? no problem. I do it every day. There *was* an EV-manufacturing industry building up in 1994, my S10 is one of those factory-converted vehicles. Good to see that we are turning the clock back to the *beginning* of the last century, when people cherished the silence and user friendliness of the electric drive and the EVs were the majority of the vehicles sold. It just makes sense.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (2:13 am)

    NZ #92

    “I understand the recent rerating of ‘Reserves’ is because oil companies will use the better extraction capacity enabled by EEStor technology. No wait . . .
    /sarcasm off.”

    **** **** *****

    Hilarious NZ! Actually I’m thinking maybe Eestor is good for the economy. Just think, If all those people waiting for the “Giant” in the pumpkin patch grabbed a little vegetation on their way out and delivered it to a nearby Coskata plant, they’d be doing their cellulosic duty. :) After all, part of the production of ethanol involves…uhhh VAPOR!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (2:24 am)

    #71 Statik:
    Um. Ooops. You’re right, of course. If you consider Eastern Orthodox Easter it was April 27, which is nearly May. :)

    My excuse is I was distracted because I spent the whole stupid day over on the Hummer thread trying to post an article from the NYTimes how you are 11% more likely to “dye” if you drive an SUV than if you drive a car. I can’t figure out the filter on this site. I’ll try it one more time with all the potentially filter triggering words removed. :)


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (3:11 am)

    wow it seems that most of the people posting here are either not government employees or don’t know too many CEO’s. I say government in there because like GM our government is corrupt (say it isn’t so). You think that Lutz gets out of the malibu conversion and looks around feeling this great since of pride that he is helping the environment and helping his fellow americans. Hate to break it to ya but he doesn’t care about either. He is thinking to himself “this is gonna make me more money, my grandchildrens’ children won’t have to work either!” He is a CEO, you don’t get there by thinking about others. For example, think to yourself if you won the lottery of $100 million after taxes what would you do with the money? Give some to family or friends and whatnot right? Exactly, you are not CEO material. Make no mistake about it, he is simply holding out the golden carrot so-to-speek for you to keep reaching for. It is like in the cartoons, you hold something out on a stick in front of a rabbit or whatever and they just keep going for it without ever getting it. Like someone else said, was to come out 2009 then 2010, and now end of 2010. He is sucking you dry before he bends you over. Here is a guy who is waiting for the economy to be so bad, gas to be so high….and then drops the volt out for you. I mean really, is it so obsurd to think that it is actually ready for production, but it wouldn’t be the most profitable time? Please spare me the this site said this and that site said that blah blah BS. If you were the battery company(or anyone else i n th e deal) and Lutz is telling you to play along so you will make millions, you arn’t exactly gonna be the whistle blower. Before any of you start with the patriatism crap, feel free to join me on the fence line. Oh and to #90 Thompdumb or whatever, who cares about a collectors piece? Most of the people with the garage-home-built version are actually driving them now, and they don’t have a budget near what GM does and they are making it work. That is the point you retard. He is saying a team of some 200 engineers is working on this and my neighbor has had an EV that I helped him build for 5 years now. If the volt came out tomorrow, I would get one. It just seems with each passing month it starts to look more and more like the golden carrot being held out in front of me. Ordering the parts and having my neighbor help me make my own EV is starting to seem more tempting. Meanwhile Thompdumb is still talking about his moonshot when several others are already on Mars.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (3:48 am)

    I have a electric outlet in my garage and it’s lonely for a Volt!

    Thanks Mr. Lutz for keeping us informed and telling us about the ride.

    Thanks Lyle for keeping at this web site everyday!
    I barely have time to read the posts and you’re plugging away at this web site like a mission to Mars.

    Thanks to all the Volt fans on the web site for keeping this thing alive – because I need one of these Volt cars yesterday – and of course for all of the interesting information, thoughts, ideas and humor.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (4:01 am)

    Somewhere in the cosmos, 22 May 08 WAS Easter. So there!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:32 am)

    #79 Nasaman. That was really cool. No rumbling of the engine.


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    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:44 am)

    And a Volt in every garage.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:53 am)

    #90, ThomDbhomb,

    Lutz referred specifically to “today.” From the perspective of history, nothing special happened just because some bigwig took the controls for 8 miles. It doesn’t yet have RE-mode. As of today, it’s entirely nothing special; just more expensive than anything ever built in a garage. IF they get it into mass production, then it may have some historical significance, like the Tin Lizzie.

    #87, 88, 89, Grizzly and Statik,

    The 100 mile range Rav4-EV runs on NiMH. Apparently, it can be done.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:19 am)

    Good to go, remember to keep it affordable for every American


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:28 am)

    Good to know that something is happening?


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:29 am)

    Starting this Pay period, I’ve started putting away monthly amounts to buy this vehicle on DAY ONE!!!!!!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (7:09 am)

    Looks like I’m late to this party, but just glad to hear the good news anyway.

    I see a lot of people splitting hairs over the drivable mule by Easter issue. C’mon already! Just be glad they got a working mule that is performing to expectations. In the big scheme of things, I don’t think 3 years down the road anyone will care if GM took 2 months longer to have a drivable mule then what they were expecting in January of the year 2008. Just keep pushing forward GM! We all need this car!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (7:17 am)

    #94 James

    “hey grizz, am i wrong, or does static remind us of another dip who used to post on here in ‘07, but no longer shows up, at least under his old name.”

    Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.

    I don’t remember who this ‘dip’ was, even though I have been here since the beginning myself.

    I’ll just assume in your neck of the woods that ‘dip’ is a pseudonym for “unbelievably intelligent poster.” However have no fear, I won’t be using any aliases…and I promise to stay with board right up until the very end.

    (=

    /reverse smiley face FTW


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (7:19 am)

    Statik – you better be careful post # 86, one of your responses to the article provided by NZDavid on #80…specifically the supply of raw materials for building batteries….

    Did I actually detect something positive in your words there?

    Oh and thanks for enlighting me….I now see what you meant with your easter egg post…


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:07 am)

    #109 Murray

    How dare you make such a accusation about me….thats slander. It was late, I was woozy.

    Honestly, I’m really not this negative of a guy. As I’ve said before I got hooked on the Volt/this site from the beginning. If I could get any car it would be the Tesla Roadster…I mean the Chevrolt Volt. Ok, so if I could get my hands on two cars, one of them would be the Volt.

    However, I am tempered by the fact, that from the very beginning realizing it was from GM, who are crippled under the financial consequences of making bad decisions, that the things they claimed could not possibly add up.

    I recognized the Volt we first saw…and the production dates…and the price…and the volumes, were at odds with each other…and at odds with GM’s financial health.

    Looking at the company prior to the Volt, with no sentimental attachment, it was easy to recognize the ‘shell game’ of trying to hide your true financial condition. It is much easier to move pieces around, hide your true financial well-being and hide your flaws, as long as your sales continue to expand.

    I came to this site with the desire to own a Volt and to get updates on it’s progress. However, I also came into this site being a economic junkie and a avid trader for many years. I am naturally at odds with myself here.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:07 am)

    Why did he have to say this?

    “Eventually, if and when we settle on the right battery…”


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:38 am)

    Statik said re Canadian Auto Workers: “Gm may face a wildcat strike as a possibility if it goes badly. It wouldn’t be so bad except for the face GM produces the Impala at max capacity (5,500/wk) and everyone they can make is already sold. Total inventory is under 22 days atm. Thats 1,100 a day @ 25k a pop…27.5 million/per day lost…probably not what GM really wants to see happen at this moment.”
    The comment is accurate, but this time GM holds the high cards at the table. With declining vehicle production numbers for the next several years already planned, the CAW wants to keep as many jobs in Canada as it can, and a wildcat strike is almost suicidal.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:44 am)

    I will be my raising the tower on my 20km wind generator in 5 days and looking forward to net metering! Now if GM will just up the time line and roll out the volt next year so I can stay on track with the expected payback period.
    If they really want to be a leader , they should come out with 2 more models right on its heels. (Saturn VUE for one)


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:45 am)

    I agree with #107 Schmeltz!

    GM announced production plans for the Volt just 18 months after it was unveiled as a concept vehicle. This is amazing and perhaps even unprecedented, I can’t say for sure!

    Go GM!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:48 am)

    Bob Lutz said, “I miss the throaty roar of an engine.”

    No problem. Just have the Volt team add an engine “ringtone” to play over an external speaker system.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:57 am)

    #112 RB

    Your right, GM does hold the cards, they have had them for a long time in this current market.

    It all depends on their mindset. If GM has pushed the union far enough where it fears almost all of its auto sector jobs will be lost, it may feel that this is it’s only shot.

    The Oshawa plant for example, had the Lumina, Regal, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Impala, Silverado and Sierra-Denali all going at the same time.

    Today it just has the Allure and the Impala as continuing vehicles (with Camaro in the pipeline).

    I guess the Union 8AM meeting with the GM is over…we will see what happen shortly.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:07 am)

    I’m right there with you Statik…

    I’m in the finance biz myself, although not a trader nor an economic junkie by any means (I play on the software side)…and after many years in the business, I have tremendous respect for people like yourself and the information you provide.

    Obviously, all of us in here are dying to see this thing become real but in business it is always about the ‘bottom line’ and those who can sift through the balance sheets and provide the ‘truthiness’ are all good in my book.

    Makes me think about a quote I heard recently from one of my favorite TV show hosts….
    “Money cant but happiness, but you can sure buy things with money that make you happy”


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:21 am)

    Note: Union meeting with GM ended at 9:40 this morning:

    “We are walking away incredibly disappointed,” Hargrove told reporters after a 90-minute meeting with senior GM executives including Chief Executive Rick Wagoner at the automaker’s headquarters. “We still feel betrayed.”

    Hargrove said the union is considering a legal challenge to GM’s decision to close its Oshawa truck plant, among other possible steps. A local official with the Canadian union said a blockade that has shut down work at GM’s headquarters building in Canada would continue.

    Well, no surprises there…however it looks as if escalation is in the cards.

    GM is off another 4% today. Trading around $16.40ish…another fresh 33 year low. It is actually within a couple bucks now of being well…the lowest it’s ever been? I don’t know…I only have data back to the 50s. Stupid tradestation.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:23 am)

    Great to see you’re finally putting some effort into extreme fuel economy. Unfortunately, I predict the Japanese automakers will continue to grow and dominate the market. Quality issues and resell value that haunt USA cars must be addressed competitively.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:34 am)

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:37 am)

    “Also in accompaniment was Volt Vehicle Line Director Tony Pozawatz”

    Shouldn’t that be spelled Pozawatts?


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:50 am)

    Well, it looks like everyone had a busy night last night. Some of you need to chill (you know who). You would think your sole purpose was to pour cold water on the Volt idea. Do you hate GM? Yes, I think so of you do. With some justification, I might add. GM certainly gave us plenty of reasons to hate them. Some of their decisions were just plain dumb. The lasted one to buy COBASYS may be just as dumb. I don’t know – not knowledgeable enough about the circumstances of the deal at this time. Time will tell if it is dumb or smart. I hope for smart. Based on some of your comments, I think failure is what some of you hope for.

    Let’s give GM a break. This is a tough enough job without all the problems that have been thrown up since the concept car was introduced. Let’s keep pushing GM to do better. Let’s keep praising GM when they do good. Let’s keep hoping for an earlier release of the Volt and introductions of new E-FLEX vehicles (like a BEV).


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:51 am)

    Hi Statik:
    Wanted to say first that I appreciate your honest posts and sense of humor about things.

    In regards to GM’s financial standings, we most likely won’t see improvements until some of these fuel efficient models start becoming available and plentiful in numbers. I’m speaking of their proposed Cobalt replacement, some more hybrids, the Beat or whatever it is to be named, and then last but certainly not least, the Volt of course. GM has acknowledged that the “old standby” of market cycles and fuel supplies is not going to change towards the cheap again. Isn’t it always said that “admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery”? It seems they have done that and are doing everything to turn that around. So many of us come down hard on GM for being so slow to see this, (and I’m not making any excuses for them), but don’t you think Toyota is feeling pretty foolish for just dumping 1.4 Billion (with a ‘B’) into that Texas factory to make huge Tundra pick-ups, and probably never see it run at near capacity? Nissan announced it will quit making Titan pick-ups in its Mississippi factory in about 2 years and will sell a Dodge built pick-up after that. Same situation for them. I’m hoping GM can pull out of their slump, and as far as I can tell, they are making the right moves to do that. I can’t criticize them for trying. What do you think?


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:05 am)

    Well, it looks like everyone had a busy night last night. Some of you need to chill (you know who). You would think your sole purpose was to pour cold water on the Volt idea. Do you hate GM? Yes, I think so of you do. With some justification, I might add. GM certainly gave us plenty of reasons to hate them. Some of their decisions were just plain dumb. The lasted one to buy the battery maker may be just as dumb. I don’t know – not knowledgeable enough about the circumstances of the deal at this time. Time will tell if it is dumb or smart. I hope for smart. Based on some of your comments, I think failure is what some of you hope for.

    Let’s give GM a break. This is a tough enough job without all the problems that have been thrown up since the concept car was introduced. Let’s keep pushing GM to do better. Let’s keep praising GM when they do good. Let’s keep hoping for an earlier release of the Volt and introductions of new E-FLEX vehicles (like a BEV).


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:07 am)

    That last post of mine went into moderation because I had the name of the battery company GM is intending to buy. I replaced the name with the words t”the battery maker” and it went through ok. Now how does moderation really work?


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:15 am)

    I am thinking about starting a blog with the purpose of giving all the GM haters a single source to spout off their mouths about how bad GM is and how they can’t do anything right and how they should be put out of business. Maybe those people will give the rest of us a break and stay on that site while the rest of us spend our time actually talking about what we all signed up on this site for.

    I am not talking about you, Statik. We need your kind of creative negativism. That is good for us. Plus, your glass is always half full of positivism. I had to get both of those “isms” in there.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:22 am)

    #126 Schmeltz

    You are definitely right about the other automakers being almost as insane as GM. Just because Toyota is the market leader doesn’t make them infallible by any stretch. Your example of the Tundra is a perfect example of a failure to interpret the market.

    It may well be that the auto industry is currently turning into the airline Industry, where no one makes money and it is a competition to see who is the ‘least losery’ every year. There definitely needs to be some attrition in the segment.

    Naturally, I also cannot criticize them for trying. Surely they are indeed trying to make money.

    “Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery” is indeed the first step. Generally followed by stopping whatever vice it is that you have relied on, ie) drugs, booze…sex?

    However GM’s problem right now is not really incorrect interpretation of the market and the platforms it has offered (is offering)…although that is still a major part.

    GM’s problem is a massive debt burden in a contracting sector. GM has not admitted it’s cash/debt situation is at the crisis level, nor does it serve it’s own purpose to do so, for fear of losing its credit rating further and plumetting it’s share price. The eventual last move in this ‘Step program’ is Chapter 11.

    The only hope for reversal, is for A) widespread turnaround in market conditions in the next 12-18 months and B) widespread adoption/acceptance of it’s new platforms…which must get to market in the fastest possible timeframe


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:27 am)

    Ahh the truthiness….sometimes it hurts….

    And on a positive note lets get this great idea going again…c’mon all you GM haters, you know you want to copy/paste the following in your next posting:

    “GM, AS THE MANY POSTS ABOVE HAVE ALSO REQUESTED
    —PLEASE CONTACT ME 1ST BY EMAIL —I WANT TO BUY A VOLT!!!”


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:29 am)

    N Riley #

    I agree with you very much ! It is so easy to criticize when you are not in their shoes. We all make mistakes, that is part of being in business. Wouldn’t it be a wonderful world if we never made mistakes ? Oil prices are where they are today because of our mistakes in thinking we have to have large SUV’s and trucks. GM produces what we demand !
    It amazes me how we can all see GM’s problems when we are on the outside looking in.
    God Bless America,

    Tom


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:35 am)

    While Bob Lutz’s ride is not on the same level as Paul Reveres’ ride, it has a positive significance for most of us. We don’t know just what was in the car, do we? It may have had more of the final components than some of you are willing to suggest. I do not know. I believe GM is pretty much on schedule and somewhat ahead of schedule in a number of things. I still say they could release the initial slew of Volts by early 2010 with heavier production occurring during the summer of 2010.

    At this point in time, only GM knows. Maybe when they show their Volt to congress this month it will be the final version for production. Hey! A guy can hope. Can’t he.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:42 am)

    Thanks for not putting me in the “GM haters” Riley.

    I like to think I am actually encouraging GM to be as strong as possible and to built the best, most market savvy Volt it can. I just do my encouraging through spanking/constructive criticism rather than praise.

    It is in GM’s best interest to be honest with itself I think, deal with it’s problems head on. I get the feeling that no one in that boardroom is really making the hard choices, just putting things off as long as they can and then making snap decisions as situations escalate beyond containment.

    I don’t really know what the answer is for them going forward. Maybe it’s just being honest and throwing itself at he mercy of the public…maybe it’s attempting to get more gov’t intervention (it is a election year after all)…maybe it’s trying to find a 3rd party buyer to get itself out of this mess…maybe it’s Chapter 11. Regardless, decisions have to be made…or they will be made for them, and that is never a good situation.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:43 am)

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (11:06 am)

    N Riley #127 & #129:

    I agree. Well said.

    GM has done stuff day by day for years which makes a lot of us absolutely crazy, but we are still going to be a lot better off if they survive and prosper. I have been as negative as anyone at times, just out of total frustration. But I am trying to discipline myself to devote whatever time and energy I have for these issues to doing whatever little I can to help to push them in the right direction.

    #122 Statik:

    I have been glancing through an old book I have by Ian Hogg which is sort of an encyclopedia of old military vehicles. I just happened upon a “Chevrolet” 4×4 sort of weapons carrier truck produced at Oshawa for the Canadian and British armies from about 1939-45. What a sad loss of a great piece of history.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (11:38 am)

    It is amazing that people are still hung up on the EV-1. At this stage an electric car as in the EV-1 without range extension is useless. Certainly as a primary vehicle this was the main reason the EV1 failed and this is the main reason the Volt will succeed. Pure electric is the future but not now. We need an orderly transition to it. Neither the current battery technology nor energy logistics would suit the eventual replacement of
    200 to 300 million cars.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (11:40 am)

    Statik #134

    Your post #134 is a primary reason why I could never classify you as a GM hater. That was an excellent comment. I give you credit for very thought provoking comments. You rival Noel and Nasaman. I know that all three of you will keep pushing where necessary and encouraging when needed.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (11:52 am)

    Noel Park

    I believe if GM can get some new vehicles out the door to the market ASAP with good gas mileage, they can weather this storm. They now have quite a number of very economical vehicles on the market now. The problem is the large trucks, Suvs and the Hummer. I really don’t know much about their smaller truck mpg.

    One thing most of don’t talk about is GM has the best truck mileage figures of the large truck segment. The pickup truck market is too valuable to the public and business to be allowed to “go away”. What would we do without trucks? Could we even imagine? GM will improve their trucks with the two-mode drive system and possibly with some version of the E-FLEX technology.

    But, I believe GM’s future is a good one, IF they can get through the next 3 years. There seems to be more worry about Ford and Chrysler than GM.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (11:58 am)

    Last fall, Bob Lutz, Jon Lauckner & apparently many other key people at GM were said to be somewhat surprised to learn that DRAG has a larger effect on EV range than MASS —based on the Volt concept’s wind tunnel testing & analysis. Since that discovery, I’ve often wondered if GM wishes they had instead (or also) decided to promote a somewhat larger vehicle —one that could command a higher MSRP than the compact 4-seat Volt.

    Although the market for large SUVs is imploding (down ~15.9% in the past year), sales of CUVs are EXploding (up 30.7% in 2007 compared to 2006). And on top of that growth, the CUV Saturn VUE’s sales were up another 83.5% between April 2007 & April 2008*. As a result, I’ve wondered if it wouldn’t be wise for GM to begin recovering more of the E-REV development cost by producing a Cadillac Provoq concept like that shown as a fuel-cell concept this January —BUT AS AN ENTIRELY-ELECTRIC CROSSOVER/ COMPACT SUV that borrows heavily from the design of either the Plug-in Volt, the Plug-in VUE, or both.

    Consequently, I have been vigorously lobbying GM at the decision-making levels since January to produce an electric CUV with an EV-only range of 35-40miles, and have hand-carried or emailed a 2-pg dissertation containing the technical & marketing arguments explaining it to several GM executives. Anyone here who’d like a copy (2 pgs in MS Word) of the exact document I’ve given several members of management at GM is welcome to it. Just email me at nasaman@earthlink.net & ask for the “Plug-in CUV Proposal to GM”.

    *Data is from http://www.NADAguides.com


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:00 pm)

    I want to say I sometimes get very frustrated reading some of the post and relating it to what is going on in the world. I have a tendency to respond by shooting from the hip. I am sorry if I put anyone’s back up. You must forgive me as I forgive those who speak with some of the same frustrations I feel. It is going to be, possibly, a tough next three years for all of us. But, who knows. Maybe the price of crude will drop over the next few years as a way of trying to slow the advancement of electrical vehicles and we all will make it through this without going bankrupt trying to pay for our gasoline.

    Even if that does happen (lower prices, God forbid bankruptcy), I will buy a Volt as long as I am financially and physically able to do so. That is one pledge I will make now to one and all.

    Thanks for letting me vent a little.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:03 pm)

    Grizzly – Yep, you beat me to the PDNFTT comment.
    NZDavid, not to worry – or need a couch, that’s just another “pundit” talking. He probably thought Hillary would get the nomination, too.

    Just for perspective, it wasn’t tooooo awful long ago that we were worried about whether the Volt would ever be more than a really neat concept. NOW we’re debating what color we want!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:05 pm)

    #143 — PIckup trucks still are being sold in large numbers, even this year. The numbers are just not as large as there are factories to make trucks. As you said, this segment is too valuable to go away. People are reacting right now with delays in purchase, not decisions not to purchase. Every crisis has its time course. Gas prices will come down some, people will take on a more positive outlook, and sales of pickups will rise again, though probably not to the previous high levels.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:05 pm)

    nasaman

    Thanks. You have been doing us all a great service. Many here may just now be learning of your service. We should all read that document.

    Again, Thank You!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (12:52 pm)

    If someone here started a “Why I STILL hate GM.com” website, then WE could go there and be the trolls! How great is that?


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (1:28 pm)

    I don’t care if gas goes down to $1 a gallon, I will buy a volt just to get off the ridiculous dependence on oil we are locked into now!


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    Larry

     

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (1:45 pm)

    Go plugin hybrids! Let’s develop the technology and energy infrastructure in the good ole USA, and stop exporting all of our money to the OPEC countries. If we continue on our current path, our country will be owned by the OPEC countries soon!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (1:51 pm)

    As one who rides a bike 24 miles to work rather than pay for gas, I’m a little worried about the Volt – I probably won’t hear it coming up behind me. Then again, I won’t smell it as it passes, either!

    Think I can handle that trade off.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (2:45 pm)

    One question. i was wondering if any thought or research has gone into the idea of utilizing the silicon nanowire or silicone nanotube battery technology? this would theoretically provide 10 times the amount of energy storage, while being lighter weight. Just curious if this is on the dockett for engineers?


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    Narg

     

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (3:22 pm)

    Randall Whitted, you’re concerns are not needed. You will still hear the tires, and a slight whine of the electric motor. Many gas powered cars today may even be more quieter than many electric vehicles on the road today.

    Besides, you do use proper hand signals and look before turning, right? Remember, a bike is not a pedestrian. You are bound to the same rules and laws that a car is. You must stop and stop signs, you must signal when turning and obey all other traffic laws. Keep that in mind, ride safely and you’ll never have a problem.


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    mien green

     

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (3:37 pm)

    And wear a neon orange vest so that cars will see you before they pull out.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (3:45 pm)

    Yeah, yeah I know :) I’ve been riding for 20 years or more – thanks for the replies. The thought of cars that don’t stink has me very excited, but the lack of noise is a concern – good to know they’ll make some kind of noise though. And I do have a mirror, so it shouldn’t be a real problem.

    The next goal state after cars like the Volt become common is a solar/wind installation on every home that charges storage batteries during the sunny/windy day that can then be used to charge the Volt over night. That’d be so cool!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (4:29 pm)

    #155 mien green:

    Yeah, and best helmet you can buy. And ALWAYS wear it. Trust me, I know from bitter experience.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (4:47 pm)

    #143 N. Riley:

    I devoutly hope that you are right.

    #147 RB:

    I agree.

    Businesses are always going to need trucks. We have 2 (3 if you count the S-10). it kills me to fill them up with fuel, but there is no other option. So there will be a substantial market going forward.

    But it appears that the day of the light truck/SUV as a fashion statement is going the way of the Dodo bird. I don’t know what percentage of the market that is, but it is substantial as well.

    Which is just another way of saying that you are right. There is excess capacity, and the adjustment is going to be painful.

    The bigger problem is that those who do not have the ability to produce very fuel efficient cars to meet the rising demand for same are in grave danger.

    Sorry if this is restating the obvious, but I just wanted to reinforce your very good comment.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (4:49 pm)

    And a helmet with a huge flashing light…. Naw, just kidding. My daughter’s Prius was seriously quiet at low speeds. We had to look out of kids especially, because they get so absorbed in play. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bike’s noise might be enough to hide the Volt’s until it’s pretty close to the rider (the Volt, not the bike).


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:34 pm)

    subject of email: “Chevy Volt No Longer a Concept”
    uhm..
    Then why are both photos, the ONLY photos given framed in such a way that most viewers wouldn’t be able to tell that this is NOT a volt, but an older model chevy.

    Looks to me like chevy volt is still a concept. Please stop the deceptive marketing to your potential future base. We’re not all as stupid as apparently you think we are.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:35 pm)

    #105 reality check

    “…my neighbor has had an EV that I helped him build for 5 years now. …Meanwhile Thompdumb is still talking about his moonshot when several others are already on Mars.”

    I thought you sounded martian. We haven’t found intelligent life there yet. ;)

    I hope your home-made EV makes as much history as the Volt.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:39 pm)

    #110 dagwood55
    “From the perspective of history, nothing special happened just because some bigwig took the controls for 8 miles.”

    …as far as you know. Maybe something special happened and you weren’t made aware. I think every step in the process is historic. Some steps may have more significance than others. But it seems silly to argue whether something is historic or not. Let trime be the judge.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:41 pm)

    #156 Randall Whitted
    #157 noel park

    I ride road bikes too. Even if cars stay loud, my hearing isn’t what it used to be. So, I am already getting used to quiet-seeming cars.


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    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (5:50 pm)

    #145 N Riley
    I just want to say that your post demonstrates class.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:04 pm)

    #159 Tagamet:

    Somebody suggested a CD of engine sounds. Just turn it on and open the window.

    Back in the day, you used to be able to buy 45 rpm vinyl records called “Sports Cars In Hi-Fi”. My buddy had one of the 50s vintage BRM V-16 supercharged 1500cc Grand Prix car. That would wake up the bicycle riders and pedestrians, I promise you.

    We used to have a talking NIssan. It said “Key is in the ignition”, “Right door is open”, and so on. Way back when during the discussion of the Volt and blind people, I suggested a low and pleasant voice saying “Excuse me”, “Excuse me”, “Excuse me”.

    End of non-problem.

    Oh yeah, and I do agree, if you really listen to a Prius, the tire whine, air flow, and various mechanical noises are darned near as loud as a civilized ICE car anyway.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:05 pm)

    Robert,
    Just a suggestion, but you really ought to read the article and THEN post your negative remarks.

    And as far as your “We’re not all as stupid as apparently you think we are.” I’d just have tto say SURE you are! If you really want to get together with kindred spirits, you ought to visit Why_I_Still_Hate_GM.com


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:09 pm)

    157 noel park

    I second that emotion. I also know from experience that if your relax your body on impact, that you’ll fly over the hood like a dart and take the blow from the pavement on the top of your head.

    Two motorcycle experiences: I relaxed and came up whole and cursing, and my brother in a separate accident, stiffened, came over the hood with angular momentum, and shattered his leg in three places, now permanent pinned, when it hit the pavement first.

    Cars just don’t see you, which is why motorcycycle headlights are now hard wired on.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:17 pm)

    What’s the buzz?, tell me what’s a happening. What’s the buzz?, tell me what’s a happening. Chevy Volt is coming out!. opec has, no more clout. GM is my salvation, GM is my salvation. ( Ok now, everyone repeat a couple times. )


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:17 pm)

    Noel @165
    Yeah I got a LOT of people on “the couch” complaining that they thought that their car was talking to them (heehee)


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:22 pm)

    After whacking us working folk for as long as possible the fuel costs may drop back to $3.00 or so to derail the Electric vehicles next year. Don’t fall for it.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:23 pm)

    Fred @ 168

    Just to clarify for others, that’s a parody of Jesus Christ: the Musical.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (6:24 pm)

    Oops Jesus Christ Superstar: the Musical


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (7:17 pm)

    163 ThombDbhomb & #167 mien green:

    My younger son is/was an avid mountain and road biker. He has had a string of crashes and serious injuries that would stop your heart. The worst was a really serious closed skull brain injury which damn near killed him. He had on a top of the line helmet at the time, or it would have for sure. People think of happy little kids riding their bikes, and do not understand how dangerous they can be, particularly in an urban traffic environment.

    Bicycles may be part of the solution to our energy mess, but we need to do some serious work on the safety issue before we flood the streets with them.

    You guys watch yourselves every second, do you hear me? We need all of you hot shot bloggers to try to keep the momentum going here.

    #170 fred:

    Absolutely right. I remember when Jimmy Carter said in what, 1976?, that energy independence was “The moral equivalent of war.” Bye and bye we all went back to sleep. What’s the saying, “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.”? Well they’ve fooled us 2 or 3 times now, and each time it gets worse. Hopefuly we have learned our lesson. I know I have.

    Volt Or Bust!


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (8:28 pm)

    Thanks noel. I hope your son is doing fine.


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    Robert V. (Canada)

     

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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:34 pm)

    All I read here is pathetic.

    To believe the impossible is proper to Americans…

    I asked a few years ago: “Do you know that the world is turning clockwise ?”

    They answered : “What World” ?

    (Meaning that after USA there is no world)

    Pathetic…


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (9:54 pm)

    Robert V.
    Next time you need some quality health care, come on down for some pathetic help. I guess it’s all relative, but until you showed up I’d used Statik as the model Cannuck.


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    Jun 6th, 2008 (10:07 pm)

    Just so I’m clear, that’s honest, high praise for Staik. (I can hear his head swelling) (lol)


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    Sal

     

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    Jun 7th, 2008 (3:38 pm)

    Will Bob Lutz be the next Henry Ford?

    Henry Ford made his Model T affordable for the masses.
    GM has a once in a lifetime opportunity now to bring out an affordable Volt for the masses and not only bring GM on top worldwide but to help bring USA out of this horrific recession.

    If they wait too late to produce them or price them too high, then other manufacturers will beat them to the starting line, and there goes GM.

    When can we put our name on the reservation list?


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    Glenn

     

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    Jun 7th, 2008 (5:38 pm)

    History will be made — When I put my key in my new Volt. Drive over to my friend L.W. and take him for a ride. We need it now !!!


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    Jun 7th, 2008 (5:47 pm)

    Glenn – NO KEY! It’ll use a fob.


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    Robert V. (Canada)

     

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    Jun 7th, 2008 (6:56 pm)

    Tagamet, Cannuck would fit perfectly on your forehead !

    Many Americans comes here to get good quality care without paying thousands of dollars per year to be served.

    “Will Bob Lutz be the next Henry Ford?” Ha ! ha! ha!…

    Exactly what I was talking about…

    Dummer and Dummier !

    “Lutz” of Hope !

    Pfffffffffffff !

    They don’t only use Dummies in crash cars… But they hire them as chairman of the board !!!!!!!!


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    Jun 7th, 2008 (7:12 pm)

    Robert V (Canada)

    Welcome abouard we look forward to hearing from you.
    T


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    Jun 7th, 2008 (7:13 pm)

    aboard that is


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    KHL

     

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    Jun 7th, 2008 (11:13 pm)

    One thing I found very interesting was when Bob mentioned that he was going 70mph and that the ICE never kicked on. This perhaps indicates one of several possibilities. He said they drove the car 20 miles and the batteries were not depleted. Next he stated that the batteries were exceeding expectations. If we take these statements as true, then Volt might go more than 40 miles on batteries only. Driving the vehicle at 70mph uses almost double the energy of driving it 40mph which was the original spec, 40 miles at 30-40 mph. Next, getting up to 70mph without the ICE may indicate the use of ultra-capacitors. Unless there was a steep down grade on the proving track, getting up to 70mph would almost certainly exceed the battery’s burst energy peak and require more voltage from the ICE. Finally, GM’s recent policy has been to underpromise and over deliver. If this is the case with the Volt, especially at this early stage, we could be looking at 50 to 60 miles on electric only at highway speeds. This would certainly blow away gasoline consumption and make the Volt even more revolutionary. Of course I could be reading too much into his otherwise mundane statements, but time will tell.


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (10:31 am)

    Build them as fast as you can. Keep them affordable, and you won’t be able to build them fast enough. WE WANT OFF OIL.


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    mien green

     

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    Jun 8th, 2008 (11:19 am)

    182 Tag:
    “Welcome abouard…”

    No, you had it right the first time. They spell funny up here. If you haven’t already noticed.


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    Tagamet

     

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    Jun 8th, 2008 (12:05 pm)

    mien green,
    Cuete (g)


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (3:31 pm)

    Tag

    More at queutue. Eh?


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (3:35 pm)

    Mein,
    Isn’t there a “D” on the end of “queutue”

    OK, we now return to the original thread. What was it ABOUT, anyway?

    PS I STILL can’t get the T-Shirt page to work!


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (7:04 pm)

    As in queutie?

    It’s all about American egocentrism and GM incompetance.

    Evidently.

    This site will forever be a lightning rod for trolls, associated with GM as it is.

    You can always go to Paypal directly if you know Lyle’s account name there or even his email address.


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (7:55 pm)

    Lightning rod is an excellent metaphor. Fits Statik too. Hmmm, does that make me the Ground then?


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (8:18 pm)

    Grounding lug, anyway. (g)


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (8:29 pm)

    mien green # 190

    “This site will forever be a lightning rod for trolls, associated with GM as it is.”

    *** *** **** ****

    Mien,

    That’s OK. Ever notice how the GM hating tree hugging EV evangelists always find a way to bash GM, but never work toward a pragmatic solution for our environment and our economy? Think about it.

    One thing that can be said about Lyle and this site is that it’s a positive attitude of “can do” and “I’ll work with this (these?)” companies. When was the last time you saw anyone on a street corner sporting a bull-horn shouting at passing cars and denigrating GM ever lending themselves pragmatically to the cause??

    Sometimes you’ve just got to understand that the world doesn’t necessarily always work YOUR way. No need to continue to beat the dead Ev-1….what’s gone is gone. But if you’ll WORK with that world, and not against it, you’ll find that progress can be made.

    Lyle, you’ve taught me a lot about just what a P.M.A. can do. Thanks, and keep up the good work!


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (8:47 pm)

    P.M.A. ?


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    Grizzly

     

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    Jun 8th, 2008 (9:36 pm)

    P.ositive M.ental A.ttitude

    Thought that one was set in konkrete..? Guess not ;)


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (9:41 pm)

    Griz

    Trolls seem to come from all over with all sorts of agendas. This last one appears to be simply chauvanistic. And GM certainly has enough megabusiness aspects and made enough policy decisions to attract them all. So just don’t single out the treehugging idealists. They’re one of my personal favorites.

    Yes, we know it’s a lot easier to criticize than to create. And much easier to destroy than to construct. But dominating inertia from status quo self-interest greed or complacency stagnates progress as well. A history teacher of mine once said that in America we manage by crisis, that is we wait until the problem reaches catastrophic proportions and then throw lots of money at it.

    The trouble with that scenario is that one time we may argue in denial too long, the problem looms too large, and we lack sufficient will, resources or money to address it. So those early rabble rousing voices of dissent may just be our early warning alerts, as much as you might not agree with them.

    Meanwhile, back at the troll trough…


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (10:00 pm)

    Mien #196

    They are indeed and there is never a “too soon” to address. Let’s bring the Volt on ASAP. We’ll deal with whatever when we get there! ;)


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (10:15 pm)

    mein,
    I think that that history teacher needed a more PMA! Granted, the USA does rise to crises well, but there is sooo much more going on here. Insitutional inertia is available in ANY society – civilized or not.
    If anything this site has shown me one of the only consistently postitive and reasonalbly tolerant websites I’ve ever had the pleasure of joining. I’m probably the biggest goof as far as falling for troll bait, but what can I say, I’m passiionate. (Not an excuse, rather and explanation)
    In any case, if this whole epic plays out with Lyle driving his Volt silently into the sunset, I’ll die happy! (g)
    Be well,
    T


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (10:41 pm)

    I surely hope it’ll play out with millions driving their E-flex Vehicles wherever they wish and flipping the mighty bird to Opec……… and big oil! :)


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    Jun 8th, 2008 (11:38 pm)

    I’m not sure that one can study the long view of history and still harbor a PMA. He did have good things to say about the colonial pioneers, tho. ‘Course, they were all about radical measures and change.

    I’m also not sure that the Volt can be mantled with all the trappings of oil dependency buster or climate savior, as is the wont of many around here. There’s a lot of simple self-interest pocketbook economics and corporate salvaging going on as well. It is just high time and none too soon for the EV-2 for a number of reasons, and it’s certainly later than sooner. Let’s just hope that it is a harbinger of things to come more than anything, at least on the consumer front.


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    Jun 9th, 2008 (9:01 am)

    mein@200

    I think you’re mixing up cause and effect re the Volt. The cause is the desire of GM to make money. One effect is less reliance on oil. Most of us are rooting for GM to eventually make a profit. Some of care that that’s a capitalist thing, some don’t like that, but all of us want GM to make money so that they can bring this technology to us.That’s the effect other we’re all waiting for. Almost all of us WANT A VOLT.


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    Jun 9th, 2008 (9:41 pm)

    GM is the Goliath.
    Aptera is the David.

    Aptera will be on the market with their typ-1 a full year before GM gets to market with their Volt.

    Aptera will be slow to ramp up. GM had better get the Volt in the into the “non-CARB” states before Aptera does, because I’m getting the first one available.


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    Jun 9th, 2008 (10:19 pm)

    Jerome 202

    We’ll see about Aptera. Serious doubts about the crash testing and stability of that virtual motorcycle. They may have a stated release date, but again we’ll see, and I doubt that most will see this as a competitor of the Volt.


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    Jun 9th, 2008 (10:21 pm)

    Now why is it I can’t spell my name?


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    Jun 10th, 2008 (1:32 pm)

    My grandfather retired from Ford, my uncle retired from Chrysler. My ex-husband was the Chevy man. I was born in the Motor City and I’ll get in line when this car is ready.


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    Herny

     

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    Jun 10th, 2008 (4:42 pm)

    WE WANT OUR VOLT!!!

    When this baby is released, I will urge.. No, FORCE, EVERY SINGLE one of my family members into buying this car. Thats about 10 to 12 cars.

    Hey CHEVY, this thing’s gonna be HUGE.


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    Bob

     

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    Jun 11th, 2008 (2:43 pm)

    #40 Jim:

    Solution for your 62 mile round trip to and from work:

    buy a 100 foot cord for $16.99, find an outlet at work and plug in, then you get your 62 miles to work and back home all on electricity.

    No gas needed.

    Problem solved.


  208. 208
    Rashiid Amul

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Jun 21st, 2008 (11:23 am)

    Bob, #207, I plan on doing just that.