Bob Lutz Test Drives the First Chevy Volt Early Prototype and Says “it Was Electrifying”
We have previously heard that the first Chevy Volt developmental prototype has been driving around GMs Milford proving grounds for a couple of weeks.
Last Thursday the two key GM executives who originated the Volt concept got to test drive their brainchild vehicle. This included GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz and VP of global program management Jon Lauckner. Also in accompaniment was Volt Vehicle Line Director Tony Pozawatz.
Witnesses to the event reported that after the roughly 8 mile drive,reaching speeds of nearly 60 mph, Mr. Lutz stepped out of the car with a grin on his face that made him look like “a five year old on Christmas morning.”
Mr. Lutz had the following to say about his monumental experience which he has posted over on his Fastlane Blog:
“Yesterday we announced that the GM Board has approved the Chevrolet Volt program. Yes, development work has been going on in earnest, but now it’s official. In fact, recently, at GM’s Milford Proving Ground, I drove an official “engineering development vehicle” with the 16-kwh lithium-ion battery pack we’ve been testing for our E-Flex System and I have to say – pun half-intended – it was electrifying.
The first impression of the day, however, was made before I even got into the vehicle. It hit me on the drive out to Milford, as I passed gas station after gas station with prices for regular unleaded hugging the $4 mark: This makes the importance and potential of our all-electric glide through our proving ground roads even clearer.
Now, don’t run to the Chevy dealer and order your Volt yet: The “test mule” I drove – a previous-generation Malibu – wasn’t calibrated properly, and there are an awful lot of tests that this battery must pass before it’s cleared for production. Our battery teams in Warrenand in Germanyare working hard in our battery labs to determine that these batteries will work for the life of the vehicle. Still, the conditions in a real-world environment – where the battery is exposed to shaking, moisture and rapidly changing temperature conditions – are much more extreme than the controlled settings of the lab.
But I think it’s important to point out that in the six months since we’ve received the battery pack, we’ve tested it in the lab, then on the dynamometer, and now on the track. Eventually, if and when we settle on the right battery, our E-Flex System engineers will have a lot of integrating, tuning and tweaking to do before the Volt is ready for prime time. And we’ll keep you informed of our progress every step of the way.
Upon future drives, when the vehicle is closer to true calibration, I’ll have more driving details. But I will say that, while the car is still most definitely a work in progress, the thrill of driving electrically — that instant, silent torque — is certainly present and accounted for! Of course, as you can imagine, I miss the throaty roar of an engine. Once we get this whole battery thing perfected, our friends at XM Satellite Radio may have to start an Internal Combustion Channel.”
Thanks for the update Mr. Lutz, these are thrilling times indeed!
See what Bob signed on the prototype’s hood below:
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June 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Way to go Bob and LYLE…
June 5th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
22 May 08. Yes, history was made on that date. It will be made again soon as we get to see one for ourselves. I can hardly wait.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
One small drive for a man, one giant leap for mankind. If I may steal Neil Armstrong’s famous words and change them slightly. I am really proud of GM today, aren’t YOU?
June 5th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Nice work team!
June 5th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Couldn’t tell much about the car from the picture. Is an “engineering develop vehicle” the same as a mule? Or is this a pre-production vehicle?
June 5th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Woohoo! Lutz’s quote says it all. We ARE making history today.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I can see it all now. Somewhere around 2015 some upstart movie producer will make a short documentary movie entitled “Who Saved The Electric Vehicle?” I want to see that one. Bob Lutz and Lyle Dennis should have prominent mention in the documentary.
Way to go Bob and Lyle. Way to go GM. Go Volt.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
N Riley #5… Not a pre-production, it’s essentially a mule with the full 16kWh pack installed.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Eric C
Well, I thought so, but I was just hoping. Really can not wait for the show all next month. I do believe it will be in July in the U.S. and not in Europe as some has suggested. Just a month of so until we get to see it.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I have got get off this site for a while and do some work. It gets almost addictive after a while. Keep it going and I’ll catch up with you later.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Every piece of news is encouraging, and the news is coming faster and faster, and not just from GM, but Nissan, and other manufacturers that follow GM’s lead.
As I stated on the previous article, having the factory in Hamtramck, within a stone’s throw of GM headquarters and Tech Center, means the Volt will be showered with attention.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
It is good to be the King!
June 5th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Get ‘er done boys. Don’t look back, somethin’ might be gainin’ on ya.
Someone the other day likened this to the great mobilization, both industrial and emotional, which won WWII. I sure hope so! If it is, we can do it together. If not…………………………………
June 5th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
#10 N. Riley
>> this site
>> gets almost addictive
ALMOST addictive? I’m almost ready try out methadone at this point! It’s eating an hour-plus of my day, almost every day, just keeping up with all the comments!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“Last Thursday the two key GM executives who originated the Volt concept got to test drive their brainchild vehicle”
Yupe, last thursday, MAY 22ND–2008, which of course was Easter.
“Let’s wait for the Easter Bunny. Somebody’s going to have egg on their face. And I don’t like having egg on my face.”
June 5th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Yes…I went there.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
That is awesome. I look forward to having that same feeling as I’m driving past all the gas stations, seeing the $4, $5, $6 per gal signs go by…also looking forward to the “always on” torque.
Thank you GM.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Statik #16: In the big picture, does it really matter if it happend on Easter, or in mid-May? Thought not.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
I previously mentioned Statik to always be on point….
I’m a strong believer in “always think the worst…then when things actually do work out…you feel that much better” which is why it is good to have a ‘Statik’ type around…….keeping us Volt-a-holics grounded…..
but Statik, you lost me on the Easter egg thing…..
Anyhow, thanks for another great little tidbit here Lyle.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
This is very exciting. I’m also very interested in seeing some of the other applications of the powertrain. The Volt will be a 4 seater and compact. I would love to see something with some cargo space. I’m waiting on buying a new vehicle until 2010 to see what happens. Toting around a family and a stroller is a necessity for me, as well as intermittent trips to Home Depot and such. This E-Flex platform sounds very versatile. I’m sure GM’s CUVs like the Vue and Outlook could be updated with this powertrain as well. If they got 20 electric-only miles, they would be perfect.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
EV-1 made history!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
YES!!! America’s gonna kick some import butt!!! I want mine painted “stars and stripes”!!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
#18 MarkinWI
Well, in November he said March, four months…and it turned out to be six. About 50 percent longer.
They said the Volt is coming to market in 2009, then 2010, then late 2010 about 6 months ago about the same time as the Easter claim.
It’s a trend…and the trend is whatever they say, is too ambitious. (Akin to the sub 30k tag, or the fancy roof or the big gas tank or the look of the exterior or….etc.etc.)
Keeping with being 50 percent behind. I’ll ask you, in the big picture…do you mind waiting for your new Volt expected by Nov 2010 to come in June 2012? (provided you are still the one of the ‘early ones’).
I think you will.
I think you will.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
#19 Murray
That’s me…the lightning rod, lol.
That quote, “Let’s wait for the Easter Bunny. Somebody’s going to have egg on their face. And I don’t like having egg on my face.” is from Bob Lutz when he and Toyota where having a ‘whose stick is bigger competition”
Read the original Lutz quote in all it’s glory here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/20/lutz-promises-viable-demonstration-of-volt-by-easter/
June 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
That mule will be worth a zillion dollars one day.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Notice it was the white mule, not the red one.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Statik:
You really are a glass half empty kind of guy………….
Please let us have some good news now and then without your perpetual rain cloud spoiling the parade!
I look forward to the day you buy your Volt, and post a glowing review of the car and how happy you are that you made your purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
The Volt program at GM is the kind of thing that only Bob Lutz could do. After so many years as the industry acclaimed ultimate motor head, it is poetic that he should drive the first spike into the coffin of the internal combustion engine. If Bob and GM are serious this time about the viability of electric vehicles, then the planets have truly aligned. Perhaps Mr. Lutz had a cathartic moment at Excide. What ever the reason, I embrace this attempt to re-prioritize GM’s business model to address environmental and economic pressures to do what right instead of what’s expedient. The team that brought us Hummers and Vipers will now escort us into the light. I think I’ve seen everything.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Oooh, check out the cup holders, vato!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Jim I
Yes Statik is a half empty glass kind of guy. The only thing is his glass is upside down, sometimes. But he is a fun read. Interesting, Interesting.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
You know, seeing Lyle in front of that sliver Volt makes me re-think my choice of white. I love white cars, but a sliver one would look great. But I do not like black or grey interiors. And that is about all any sliver colored vehicles ever seem to ship with.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Darn, I can’t seem to spell today. Should be silver…………..
June 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Statik, Please see my #70 previous thread for Clothing details, wants.
Mien Green. Yep gotta get one now. lol.
Looks like Lyle should be on track to get his ride with the other Journos next month. Can’t wait for that report. As noel says
Tick Tock, Tick Tock, Tick Tock.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
N Riley:
“I love white cars, but a sliver one would look great.”
You blinked.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Please tell me Mr. Bob Clutz that your going to produce the body type like we’ve seen in the auto show. I don’t want a Malibu body on this car, I want what I saw at the auto show, in the magazines and on the websites. I want something different!
June 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Can someone please tell me why GM can only get the volt to do 40 miles per charge when the Telsa Roadster gets 220 miles per charge? You would think GM would have a knowledge base that would blow any private car maker off the map. I’m so confused (picture Vinnie Barbarino saying this)
June 5th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
#35 Jim
The Tesla has a 56 kWh battery vs. the Volts 16kWh battery.
The Tesla costs $109,000 for the base model Vs. the Volts est. $30 - 40,000.
The Tesla seats two people. The Volt seats four people.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Statik:
Fair is fair, they had the prototype out running before Easter, and Lutz didn’t claim he had to be driving it personally by then:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/14/big-news-from-bob-lutz-first-chevy-volt-prototype-hits-the-road-and-gets-40-miles-electric/
Lutz was probably too busy out securing financing or something to have time to drive it between then and now.
But in any case, if Lutz is anything, he is certainly a car guy and if he enjoyed driving it, it’s probably going to be fun to drive.
Keep up the good work, GM.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Jim-35
http://www.teslamotors.com/
http://www.teslamotors.com/design/under_the_skin.php
“several thousand consumer grade lithium-ion cells” $$$
Cost $106,000.00
June 5th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
#36 NZDavid
Thanks David but you would think that GM could do an “upper” end model that would do in between the two. I would guess even though your paying a little more for a higher end model you would still save a bundle in cash from using less gas. Work for me is 31 miles each way so the Volt gas motor would kick on to charge the batteries on the way home eliminating some savings in gas purchases.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
#36 NZDavid
” #35 Jim
The Tesla has a 56 kWh battery vs. the Volts 16kWh battery.
The Tesla costs $109,000 for the base model Vs. the Volts est. $30 - 40,000. The Tesla seats two people. The Volt seats four people.”
**** **** ****
The Volt is also being designed so that it’s batteries last 10 years or 150K miles. Tesla….???….. Tesla warranty???
June 5th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
#38 Tom,
Good point but like any technology…. Prices will come down with mass production. Remember Plasma TVs when they first came out? I purchased my 55 inch Hitachi last year for $2K, 5 years ago it was $10k (estimates of course). Check out the Volt website. They were comparing two battery packs. Check out the specs size and energy output between the two releases…..
June 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
#26 Jim I wrote
“Statik:
You really are a glass half empty kind of guy………….
Please let us have some good news now and then without your perpetual rain cloud spoiling the parade!”
……..
I agree.
I hereby christen you with the nickname …… Eeyore.
Lyle, please make the change to his username.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Now that these announcements have been made, perhaps we can start planning the 1st annual Volt owners barbecue…I’ll bring the plates.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Roll it out as fast as you can! Like our very lifes are dependent on it! Because it is ! This triumph can turn America back into the great innovators we are, and lead our econmy into the next century!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
#35 Jim,
The Volt is targeted at 40 miles per charge (MPC) because most people drive less than 40 miles per day. This is classic 80/20 marketing. You start with a product that covers 80% of the market, and then after that’s successful, you go after the other 20%.
Also, the Tesla Roadster is a pure battery electric vehicle (BEV). The Volt is an extended range electric vehicle (E-REV). So if you want to take a cross country tour, the Tesla Roadster wont work, but the Volt will. By the way, Tesla’s plans for their 3rd generation car to be a range extended electric vehicle (they call it REEV) for around $30,000.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
#39 Jim,
Doubling the range of the Volt would porbably add around $10,000 to the cost and eliminate the 2 rear seats. On the plus side, you would get a lot more instantanious horsepower.
Is there any way you can plug in at work?
June 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
By the way, if anyone wants a spell checker, just install the ieSpell add on. This way you can spell check anything you type anywhere on the internet. Just google ieSpell.
Of course, you have to remember to run it.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
#45 Dave G:
Yeah, it’s just a simple 110 or 220v plug. Just drag out an extension cord when the boss isn’t looking, and viola! Or make a deal with him or her to pay for the electricity.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
#43 Rob Sauce:
Amen. Preach on brother!
June 5th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
#40 Grizzly
Yep good point I forgot about that!
Tesla 5 year 100,000 mile warrranty (Lithium Cobolt), the Volt 10 year 150,000 Mile warranty (Lithium Iron).
June 5th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
I can just see future headines now,
‘Thanks to the Chevy Volt, American Oil Companies Invite OPEC to bid on supplying oil at $10 per barrell’. .. or ‘Chavez cries foul because Venezula not invited to bid’.
Sound too good to be true ? With EVs in world wide use it could be a situation where gas needs for the general public will be greatly reduced.
One thing I do believe that when the Volt catches on and gets even better and if gas prices drop considerably, there’ll be no return to gas vehicles because drivers will prefer the outperforming EVs over gas, hybrids or otherwise. Gas has had its day like buggy whips.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Dave G # 46,
An option for everyone (not just Windows users) is the Mozilla Firefox browser, which includes a spell checker. See:
http://www.mozilla.com
I use it daily on Linux and Mac OS X! I also recommend the Adblock Plus plugin.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Just wanted to throw this out there, GM is looking to buy battery manufacturer cobasys from Energy Conversion Devices and Chevron. These guys have been making the hybrid batteries for Saturn. Although it has been posted here before that Cobasys will have nothing to do with the Volt, I gotta figure they wouldn’t be buying a battery company just to let a third party make their batteries. Might not make it into the Volt but future EV’s will probably use em.
http://www.autonews.com/
Been loving the great news lately. Thanks Lyle for keeping us up to date.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
“Our battery teams in Warrenand in Germany are working hard in our battery labs to determine that these batteries will work for the life of the vehicle.”
What does that mean? The batteries will last super long, or the car won’t? I hope we don’t have to buy a new Volt when the battery craps out!
Or…that the batteries are specially patented that ONLY their battery will work in it…crushing any after market options for a replacement battery?
June 5th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Bob’s post is a little worrying to me. His comments on the driving experience of the Volt powertrain were very restrained — especially for Bob Lutz! He called it a “work in progress,” which is true, of course. However, I am sure the engineers did all the easy adjustments before inviting Bob over for a drive!
One wonders how the mass of the mule compares to the mass of the future Volt vehicle.
o.jeff
June 5th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
For those who prefer the throaty roar of a gas engine, (Bob Lutz), they can put a cd in their disc player called the sound of obsolescence and they can hear that throaty roar while they’re driving in their EV.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
2010 is the new NEVER. Get a clue. Bob Lutz (older than John McCain) can’t taste his food anymore.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Tom 53
I think the folks that show the most battery innovation will win the GM contract. It wouldn’t be appropriate for a company to do all the R&D and then let some other company produce sub grade knockoffs. Would you even want to risk your vehicle with another makers battery ?
I doubt that defective battery replacements or upgrades will be much of a concern. GM and their dealers have always stood behind their products and that will most certainly continue.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
#52 gsned57
OK, that’s officially making my head spin. GM started (what would become) Cobasys with the Ovshinsky’s back in the EV-1 days to develop Ovshinsky’s NiMH forumations for batteries for cars. GM sold its 60% share to Texaco (later merged with Chevron and restructured the venture into Cobasys) when they got tired of EVs, cashed in their chips and went home.
Now they want it back?!? Why?
I’ll bet that’s going to cost them.
Hmm, plot thickens. A little reading shows that the licensing agreement (settlement
between Panasonic and Cobasys forbids “Matushita, Toyota, and PEVE (Panasonic) to sell certain NiMH batteries for transportation applications in North America until the second half of 2007, and commercial quantities of certain NiMH batteries in North America until the second half of 2010.”
(from wikipedia)
Coincidence then that 2010 is the date for the plug in Prius? Maybe Toyota cannot sell a Prius with bigger batteries any sooner than that. That could be good news for the \Volt, but it’s totally unrelated to buying Cobasys.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
It took me a while to get past the excitement of Bob being able to drive his car and be able to read his comments calmly. I think he is telling us that the car did run but it did not run very well, and they hope to fix it.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
More history on the same day, A123/Hymotion has partnered with Toyota dealers to install their “L5″ PHEV conversion kit. When the next generation Prius hits the showroom, spring of 2009, and the kit is installed, folks will be able to buy a PHEV with about a 20 mile AER for about $37,000. And that is in 2009, not 2011.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
How does it go? And thus a new world has mow begun. Depending upon the outcome of the EEStor devices, the Volt may or may not morph into a more affordable and capable vehicle, but it can be said that , irregardless, the age of electric propulsion has begun. But practical and viable electric propulsion, not the failed technology of the EV-1.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Thank you Bob Lutz and Jon Lauckner for publicly putting our names and talent behind the VOLT program. I believe that what you guys are doing with the VOLT program will go down in automotive history as a significant positive inflection point.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
kent beuchert
The technology did not fail for the EV-1, the politics and economics did. The expression “ahead of its time” comes to mind.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Kent #62
Thank God the Volt isn’t dependent on Eestor!
June 5th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
I want to believe in GM and the hopes that GM will save the day but I only saw one comment about the real history made with the EV1. The car worked well and had a great following only to be crushed in the desert and the electrical power patent sold off to Texaco. I don’t want to wish ill-will anyone but their practices have brought them to this point. For the factories being shut down and the people that won’t have work, I’m truly sorry for them. I can only hope that Toyota, Nissan or Chrysler can save those people.
Interesting documentary on GM’s practices of pushing SUVs and killing the electrical car can be found on the web. Very interesting reading.
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/
June 5th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
“GM is just plain lying. Wagoner should be fired for killing the EV1. The GM Board is full of dummies and sycophants. The first step would be to FIRE Wagoner, who destroyed the EV1 and delayed hybrids. Wagoner got lots of money for goofing up GM. Why?? ”
…
Sorry, that was just some recent you-tube text from our friend Doug Korthof who was in “Who Killed The Electric Car”.
http://www.youtube.com/liveoilfree
Interestingly, despite the recent good news, Doug still seems to be on his anti-GM jihad.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
P.D.F.T.T.
….beat ya to it Tag
June 5th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Sorry this is off topic, but I just stumbled across this company (apparently legit) that sells battery conversions for several ICE vehicles:
http://www.lionev.com
Thought some might find this interesting.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
About batteries, I’m sure the EV-1 was nice - in California, where frost conditions will make the evening news. I doubt the EV-1’s NiMH battery would fare so well in International Falls, MN in January (now that’s cold!).
And we have only EEStor’s word that the ultracaps will live up to their hype, they’re so secretive about displaying any sort of prototype. And independent experts on battery chemistry say the ultracaps cannot possible hold such a charge, it’s physically impossible. We will see.
Right now, GM’s tech’s are testing the Volt’s L-ion battery in harsh enviromental conditions like extreme cold, heat, ability to handle vibration, rapid charge / discharge, etc. They cannot afford to have the Volt’s battery less than perfect for their “moon-shot” vehicle.
However, I am glad GM is putting massive resources behing the Volt’s development. While Ford is still playing with dead-end hydrogen technology (hard to store, expensive fuel cells, less efficient that electric alone), and Dodge is wading into hybrids with non-plugin technology from the Prius (Yawn), GM is way ahead of the tech curve - right now. Don’t think that Toyota isn’t watching the Volt very carefully. It is a potential Prius killer if brought to market. Prius MPG of 45 / 53 versus Volt MPG of infinity (if driven carefully) is a pretty easy choice to make,
I hope the Volt has a rear-view mirror, because Bob need to keep looking in it, to see who is catching up. He may see a Toyota in the mirror soon, if the Volt takes too long coming to market.
Mine’s the metallic gold one with cupholders, as far as the eye can see. Ah, cupholders for my Big Gulp - life is good.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
“We are making history today.”
Can we have some perspective, here? What history is that?
Is this the first 8 mile drive in an electric car? Not by 100 years.
First 8 mile drive in an RE-EV? Well, it might be. Does it have the ICE in it? Did the ICE fire up? No?
Then, this is, what, the first 8 mile drive in a warmed-over Malibu EV conversion, which is not even the equal of things people have built recently in their garages, let alone the Toyota Rav4-EV or GM’s own EV-1, by an egomaniacal GM exec?
Oh, yeah. That’s history in the making.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I keep hearing about “How come the Tesla goes 220 miles on a charge and the Volt only goes 40?”
Keep in mind that if you go on a 500 mile trip, the Telsa is out of juice at 220 and the Volt is still going. Two out of three times a week, maybe more, 40 miles is enough charge for me to not need the range extention. The days I need to go over 100 miles or the plans change last minute, I wouldn’t have to change vehicles.
A real coup would be several different models with the basic drive system. Give the consumer a choice in styles. I’m not necessarily looking to advertise that I’m driving an E-REV. It’s only important that I know. I don’t care about impressing others with it.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
#43
Dang, Eeyore…that would have been sweet handle!
#27 Jim I
“Please let us have some good news now and then without your perpetual rain cloud spoiling the parade! I look forward to the day you buy your Volt, and post a glowing review of the car and how happy you are that you made your purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I can’t do it Jim, I just can’t do it! Side Note: I also look forward to that same day
#38 Dave P
“Fair is fair, they had the prototype out running before Easter, and Lutz didn’t claim he had to be driving it personally by then:”
http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/14/big-news-from-bob-lutz-first-chevy-volt-prototype-hits-the-road-and-gets-40-miles-electric/
You know that announcement link is from May 14th right? You know Easter was in March this year?
That link is the announcement that the mule had hit the track on THE DAY BEFORE (May 13th, 2008)–> check the source link for Bob’s quote, “Tuesday’s (May 13th, 2008) road test comes after last week’s testing of the Volt powertrain on a dynamometer that simulated real-world conditions.”
June 5th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Steve #70
That 220 also depends on how you drive the vehicle. I could see a lot of people getting much less than that w/o consciously lead-footing it.
The other point about the Volt is why when you need to go over 40 would you borrow or use another vehicle when the Volt’s RE will afford you 50+ mpg and the option for E85?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
In other news:
CAW leader Buzz Hargrove meets with Wagoner, chief financial officer Fritz Henderson and GM Canada president Arturo Elias tomorrow morning at 8AM.
This is going to be ugly.
Here is is quote, “He refused to go over possible courses of action if GM doesn’t honour the collective agreement. We’ll jump off that bridge when we get to it,” he (Buzz) said.
“These are senior people. I’ve dealt with them for many, many years. I just find it impossible to think they would look me in the eye and say, ‘Yes, we agree, but no, we’re not going to (reverse the decision).” Refering to GM signing off on a new deal two weeks ago that guaranteed production through 2011, and agreeing to produce the next gen light truck body in the Oshawa plant.
I dunno if the link will work, I’ll try to post it the next box…but you can google if your really interested.
Gm may face a wildcat strike as a possibility if it goes badly. It wouldn’t be so bad except for the face GM produces the Impala at max capacity (5,500/wk) and everyone they can make is already sold. Total inventory is under 22 days atm. Thats 1,100 a day @ 25k a pop…27.5 million/per day lost…probably not what GM really wants to see happen at this moment.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Hi Steve, GM has made it pretty clear that the “E-Flex Architecture” (that’s what they call the Volt’s drive system) will eventually migrate to many other vehicles. The Volt is just the first one, so it’s getting all the attention.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Yupe, I tried to post the link…site doesn’t like yahoo forwards.
I’ll try a similar story from the Toronto Star
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/437616
June 5th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
How do convertibles make out in the wind tunnel tests? Red convertible - would be nice!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
A whole lot of people today and other days as well keep clamoring for a larger battery pack. I am clamoring for just the opposite.
I want an all electric range of 100000 miles. But there are trade offs. By upping the range to 60 or 80 or 200 miles per charge you are cutting the number of cars and trucks that can be built on the e-flex system. Battery production isn’t unlimited.
I would much rather have a 20mpc vehicle that gets me on average 125 miles per gallon than to watch someone else drive their 40mpc vehicle while I am waiting in line for mine. If I could charge at work I wouldn’t spend any money on gas with the 20mpc vehicle unless I go out of town.
Actually right now I would love to be able to buy a vehicle with the e-flex system with only a 1mpc capability but the ability to upgrade the battery later. That would get me better mileage than the prius gets or at least as much.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
# 60 DaveP
Oh no, please tell me you’re jocking right. They aren’t really going to buy Cobasys and the NiMH tech back?
From GCC:”China has virtually stopped the export of lanthanum, a rare earth metal that you need for NiMH-batteries. It will last until 2010 and 2011 before Lynas and Arafura, two australian companies, will start a rare earth production outside of China. The small Mountain Pass mine in California can’t help much to lower the shortage.”
Also from the same article: “Reported US sales of hybrids in May 2008 declined 20% from May 2007 to 35,943 units. This drop is largely, but not solely, due to a 37% drop in sales of the Prius to 15,011 units in May 2008 from 24,009 units in May 2007. Toyota characterized the decline as due to “limited availability”.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
I’d like to take a minute to pat myself on the back as this seems to be a slow post night:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/#comments
Post #11, two days before annual meeting:
“Tuesday is going to be ex-ci-ting. We get the May autosales…GM is going to have to come clean on future SUV outlook and US market share…along with their fancy new plans for a ‘bold future’”
-AND-
http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/30/gm-buys-out-19000-workers-time-to-get-lean-and-green/#comments
Post #3 Four days before the meeting:
“… look for further ‘restructuring’ at the meeting. Certainly reducing truck shifts is a given (and possibly foreshadowing of which plants will be shuttered) and trying to move some workers to cars…and getting rid of another 5-7K possibly”
June 5th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Hey Folks, how about a quick break for another “electrifying event”?
Electric dragster sets a world record of 160mph/7.63secs in the 1/4mi!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Worlds-Quickest-Electric_163899.htm?emc=el&m=182544&l=9&v=9ef8dc5753
June 5th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
My above comment in moderation but here’s the link.
http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=43162
Check out para 10 & From the two above the graph down.
Scary stuff.
Tag I need a couch!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
#79 Nasaman
Thats pretty sweet! I love any kind of electric propulsion, it’s so earily quiet.
Hope there wasn’t any blind people or small children on bicycles going across the track, they would have gotten hit.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
nasaman, that’s awesome. And, so, so quiet, hehehe.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
An article on A123/Hymotion for all you Prius owners.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/06/a123systemshymo.html#more
Only 10K for 1/3 of what the Volt will have. Kinda puts the est. $30 - 40K price in perspective really. IMHO.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Plugging in at work works if you live in colder climates in Canada….I have plug in access most places….I cannot wait for this car…It is most definatley my next vehicle.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
#79 Nasaman
I love it! Any of us who have worked with electric motors for cars know that they make the most torque at 0 RPM. Its a new game if we can keep it going.We lost in the 70s. I hope we make it this time.
Take Care
Arch
June 5th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
#80 NZDavid
I read the article, I too have wondered from time to time about the supply of raw materials for batteries. Not so much at current levels of consumption, but if EV cars are widely accepted (I think most of us agree they will be).
However, the caveat to this is the initial estimate on the rate at which it can be extracted and the reserve in the ground. Alot of times (like oil), the number is construed out of thin air, without forward looking thought on the resources of those companies who are extracting it.
IE) Every year more oil is needed and more is produced. Worldwide oil reserve estimates seem to go up every year as oil companies find more and more (and look harder and harder) as the market clamours for more.
As for China currently being almost the sole supplier of such components, this is strictly a cost issue. Fact is, there is lots of it there…and it’s cheap to get. Nobody wanted to drill/dig for oil in Alberta when it was $20/barrel, it costs $30 to get it out…it was ‘non-sensical.’ But as demand grew, the price did as well and it became viable to start pulling oil out of the ground in places you had to pay workers $30/hour…and from non-traditional sources (like the oil sands). The same is true of raw battery components.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Statik. What’s your take on the Cobasys buyout? It doesn’t seem to make sense to me.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I do take something else from the article.
It would seem that Toyota and Honda have the cornor on the NiMH battery market. This would explain their reluctance to accept Lithium-ion batteries.
Also, I don’t know if the general public really care what type of battery is in their EV…just as long as it runs.
This could be a problem for GM. We all know Lithium battery’s are the ‘bee’s knees,’ but if NiMH batteries are getting popped into EVs/hybrids and they are getting the job done…it may be a case of the better technology is not the adopted one. (Anyone remember Beta? Or HD-DVD today I guess, lol). Cost on production of a NiMH battery is less than a quarter of it’s counterpart Lithium (per kWH)…that might be the deciding factor in the end. I know Lithium is better/faster/lighter…I’m just saying, the market is funny sometimes.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Statik #87
Toyota and Honda do have a lot invested in Nimh as well as Toyota in Hybrid power trains.
The difference here is that ERev and BEVs are not Hybrids and the dynamics of power / weight /size isn’t in favor of NImh, especially if you intend to seat 4 people and intend to have decent range. Remember that ERev is a BEV not a hybrid which can and does get away with a much smaller battery.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
#88 Grizzly.
I agree with you 100 percent. The Lithium is the way to go, it makes the most sense. But people’s wallets are the deciding factor on adoption.
If you have two cars, or two CUVs (I’m thinking EV RAV for example)… and one is Lithium, 3,000 pounds and goes 200 miles on a charge and the other is NiMH, is 3,300 pounds and goes 150 miles on a charge and you have lost 1/3rd of your trunk, the decision seems simple. However, if the Lithium is $29,999 and the NiMH is $19,999…I can tell you which one sells more.
Certainly Toyota and Honda have hitched their wagon to NiMH (infrastructure to produce 1.5 million units/per year…mostly for Toyota to plug into the new Prius) and are talking it up to no end (so you know they are nervous about their decision)…but they also have hedged their bets and have started limited capacity Lithium battery factories on the side.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
#69 dagwood55
If ICEs are phasing out and electrics are phasing in, then the Volt will be a pivotal car that heralds a drastic change in the auto industry. Its progress is much more noteworthy than someone’s garage conversion. Fifty years down the road, that Volt developmental prototype will be a much more valuable collector’s piece than your garage conversion.
Even if the Volt fails (GASP!), the “moon shot” will still be historically more significant than a garage conversion. Comparing a “moon shot” to a garage conversion is like comparing…(have fun with this, people)
June 6th, 2008 at 12:10 am
After watching Nasaman’s dragster video, I watched the proffered brief interview of Bob Lutz talking about his “other” electric ride… a Vectrix scooter.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Bob-lutz-talks-about-his_164847.htm
Interesting gizmo. Too bad it won’t quite go freeway speeds (60 MPH tops), and costs around 10k (a lot for a scooter IMHO, when you can buy a decent motorcycle new for $5-8k).
June 6th, 2008 at 12:18 am
IF Peak oil happens by 2010 then Li Ion is the way to go.
I understand the recent rerating of ‘Reserves’ is because oil companies will use the better extraction capacity enabled by EEStor technology. No wait . . .
/sarcasm off.
EIA stats: last week US Crude reserves down nearly 5 million barrels.
Previous week Crude reserves down nearly 9 million barrels. Both in the lower average range for this time of year. Good luck with a hurricane.
BEV’s and E-REV’s are the future. IMHO.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:37 am
“I look forward to having that same feeling as I’m driving past all the gas stations, seeing the $4, $5, $6 per gal signs go by…also looking forward to the “always on” torque.”
It’s already approaching $4.50 here in Los Angeles. The way things are going you are going to be filling up at $5 and $6 per gallon long before the Volt debuts.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:38 am
hey grizz, am i wrong, or does static remind us of another dip who used to post on here in ‘07, but no longer shows up, at least under his old name.
god bless the volt and god bless america!
June 6th, 2008 at 1:19 am
#60 DaveP said:
A little reading shows that the licensing agreement (settlement between Panasonic and Cobasys forbids “Matushita, Toyota, and PEVE (Panasonic) to sell certain NiMH batteries for transportation applications in North America until the second half of 2007, and commercial quantities of certain NiMH batteries in North America until the second half of 2010.”
Your information is out of date. This language is from the original 2004 settlement agreement. One year later Cobasys and PEVE amended the agreement, granting PEVE expanded rights:
“The expanded rights will permit PEVE to solicit and sell Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) battery products for certain North American transportation applications.”
http://investor.shareholder.com/ovonics/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=265499
PEVE could sell large format NIMH in North America today if they wanted. They do not do so because NIMH is not competitive for PHEV or BEV.
June 6th, 2008 at 1:57 am
GM has two battery contracts suppliers that makes litium -ion batteries, and is going to buy a NIMH battery supplier.
June 6th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Charging at work? no problem. I do it every day. There *was* an EV-manufacturing industry building up in 1994, my S10 is one of those factory-converted vehicles. Good to see that we are turning the clock back to the *beginning* of the last century, when people cherished the silence and user friendliness of the electric drive and the EVs were the majority of the vehicles sold. It just makes sense.
June 6th, 2008 at 2:13 am
NZ #92
“I understand the recent rerating of ‘Reserves’ is because oil companies will use the better extraction capacity enabled by EEStor technology. No wait . . .
/sarcasm off.”
**** **** *****
Hilarious NZ! Actually I’m thinking maybe Eestor is good for the economy. Just think, If all those people waiting for the “Giant” in the pumpkin patch grabbed a little vegetation on their way out and delivered it to a nearby Coskata plant, they’d be doing their cellulosic duty.
After all, part of the production of ethanol involves…uhhh VAPOR!
June 6th, 2008 at 2:24 am
#71 Statik:
Um. Ooops. You’re right, of course. If you consider Eastern Orthodox Easter it was April 27, which is nearly May.
My excuse is I was distracted because I spent the whole stupid day over on the Hummer thread trying to post an article from the NYTimes how you are 11% more likely to “dye” if you drive an SUV than if you drive a car. I can’t figure out the filter on this site. I’ll try it one more time with all the potentially filter triggering words removed.
June 6th, 2008 at 3:11 am
wow it seems that most of the people posting here are either not government employees or don’t know too many CEO’s. I say government in there because like GM our government is corrupt (say it isn’t so). You think that Lutz gets out of the malibu conversion and looks around feeling this great since of pride that he is helping the environment and helping his fellow americans. Hate to break it to ya but he doesn’t care about either. He is thinking to himself “this is gonna make me more money, my grandchildrens’ children won’t have to work either!” He is a CEO, you don’t get there by thinking about others. For example, think to yourself if you won the lottery of $100 million after taxes what would you do with the money? Give some to family or friends and whatnot right? Exactly, you are not CEO material. Make no mistake about it, he is simply holding out the golden carrot so-to-speek for you to keep reaching for. It is like in the cartoons, you hold something out on a stick in front of a rabbit or whatever and they just keep going for it without ever getting it. Like someone else said, was to come out 2009 then 2010, and now end of 2010. He is sucking you dry before he bends you over. Here is a guy who is waiting for the economy to be so bad, gas to be so high….and then drops the volt out for you. I mean really, is it so obsurd to think that it is actually ready for production, but it wouldn’t be the most profitable time? Please spare me the this site said this and that site said that blah blah BS. If you were the battery company(or anyone else i n th e deal) and Lutz is telling you to play along so you will make millions, you arn’t exactly gonna be the whistle blower. Before any of you start with the patriatism crap, feel free to join me on the fence line. Oh and to #90 Thompdumb or whatever, who cares about a collectors piece? Most of the people with the garage-home-built version are actually driving them now, and they don’t have a budget near what GM does and they are making it work. That is the point you retard. He is saying a team of some 200 engineers is working on this and my neighbor has had an EV that I helped him build for 5 years now. If the volt came out tomorrow, I would get one. It just seems with each passing month it starts to look more and more like the golden carrot being held out in front of me. Ordering the parts and having my neighbor help me make my own EV is starting to seem more tempting. Meanwhile Thompdumb is still talking about his moonshot when several others are already on Mars.
June 6th, 2008 at 3:48 am
I have a electric outlet in my garage and it’s lonely for a Volt!
Thanks Mr. Lutz for keeping us informed and telling us about the ride.
Thanks Lyle for keeping at this web site everyday!
I barely have time to read the posts and you’re plugging away at this web site like a mission to Mars.
Thanks to all the Volt fans on the web site for keeping this thing alive - because I need one of these Volt cars yesterday - and of course for all of the interesting information, thoughts, ideas and humor.
June 6th, 2008 at 4:01 am
Somewhere in the cosmos, 22 May 08 WAS Easter. So there!
June 6th, 2008 at 5:32 am
#79 Nasaman. That was really cool. No rumbling of the engine.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:44 am
And a Volt in every garage.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:53 am
#90, ThomDbhomb,
Lutz referred specifically to “today.” From the perspective of history, nothing special happened just because some bigwig took the controls for 8 miles. It doesn’t yet have RE-mode. As of today, it’s entirely nothing special; just more expensive than anything ever built in a garage. IF they get it into mass production, then it may have some historical significance, like the Tin Lizzie.
#87, 88, 89, Grizzly and Statik,
The 100 mile range Rav4-EV runs on NiMH. Apparently, it can be done.
June 6th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Good to go, remember to keep it affordable for every American
June 6th, 2008 at 6:28 am
Good to know that something is happening?
June 6th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Starting this Pay period, I’ve started putting away monthly amounts to buy this vehicle on DAY ONE!!!!!!
June 6th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Looks like I’m late to this party, but just glad to hear the good news anyway.
I see a lot of people splitting hairs over the drivable mule by Easter issue. C’mon already! Just be glad they got a working mule that is performing to expectations. In the big scheme of things, I don’t think 3 years down the road anyone will care if GM took 2 months longer to have a drivable mule then what they were expecting in January of the year 2008. Just keep pushing forward GM! We all need this car!
June 6th, 2008 at 7:17 am
#94 James
“hey grizz, am i wrong, or does static remind us of another dip who used to post on here in ‘07, but no longer shows up, at least under his old name.”
Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.
I don’t remember who this ‘dip’ was, even though I have been here since the beginning myself.
I’ll just assume in your neck of the woods that ‘dip’ is a pseudonym for “unbelievably intelligent poster.” However have no fear, I won’t be using any aliases…and I promise to stay with board right up until the very end.
(=
/reverse smiley face FTW
June 6th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Statik - you better be careful post # 86, one of your responses to the article provided by NZDavid on #80…specifically the supply of raw materials for building batteries….
Did I actually detect something positive in your words there?
Oh and thanks for enlighting me….I now see what you meant with your easter egg post…
June 6th, 2008 at 8:07 am
#109 Murray
How dare you make such a accusation about me….thats slander. It was late, I was woozy.
Honestly, I’m really not this negative of a guy. As I’ve said before I got hooked on the Volt/this site from the beginning. If I could get any car it would be the Tesla Roadster…I mean the Chevrolt Volt. Ok, so if I could get my hands on two cars, one of them would be the Volt.
However, I am tempered by the fact, that from the very beginning realizing it was from GM, who are crippled under the financial consequences of making bad decisions, that the things they claimed could not possibly add up.
I recognized the Volt we first saw…and the production dates…and the price…and the volumes, were at odds with each other…and at odds with GM’s financial health.
Looking at the company prior to the Volt, with no sentimental attachment, it was easy to recognize the ’shell game’ of trying to hide your true financial condition. It is much easier to move pieces around, hide your true financial well-being and hide your flaws, as long as your sales continue to expand.
I came to this site with the desire to own a Volt and to get updates on it’s progress. However, I also came into this site being a economic junkie and a avid trader for many years. I am naturally at odds with myself here.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Why did he have to say this?
“Eventually, if and when we settle on the right battery…”
June 6th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Statik said re Canadian Auto Workers: “Gm may face a wildcat strike as a possibility if it goes badly. It wouldn’t be so bad except for the face GM produces the Impala at max capacity (5,500/wk) and everyone they can make is already sold. Total inventory is under 22 days atm. Thats 1,100 a day @ 25k a pop…27.5 million/per day lost…probably not what GM really wants to see happen at this moment.”
The comment is accurate, but this time GM holds the high cards at the table. With declining vehicle production numbers for the next several years already planned, the CAW wants to keep as many jobs in Canada as it can, and a wildcat strike is almost suicidal.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I will be my raising the tower on my 20km wind generator in 5 days and looking forward to net metering! Now if GM will just up the time line and roll out the volt next year so I can stay on track with the expected payback period.
If they really want to be a leader , they should come out with 2 more models right on its heels. (Saturn VUE for one)
June 6th, 2008 at 8:45 am
I agree with #107 Schmeltz!
GM announced production plans for the Volt just 18 months after it was unveiled as a concept vehicle. This is amazing and perhaps even unprecedented, I can’t say for sure!
Go GM!
June 6th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Bob Lutz said, “I miss the throaty roar of an engine.”
No problem. Just have the Volt team add an engine “ringtone” to play over an external speaker system.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:57 am
#112 RB
Your right, GM does hold the cards, they have had them for a long time in this current market.
It all depends on their mindset. If GM has pushed the union far enough where it fears almost all of its auto sector jobs will be lost, it may feel that this is it’s only shot.
The Oshawa plant for example, had the Lumina, Regal, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Impala, Silverado and Sierra-Denali all going at the same time.
Today it just has the Allure and the Impala as continuing vehicles (with Camaro in the pipeline).
I guess the Union 8AM meeting with the GM is over…we will see what happen shortly.
June 6th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I’m right there with you Statik…
I’m in the finance biz myself, although not a trader nor an economic junkie by any means (I play on the software side)…and after many years in the business, I have tremendous respect for people like yourself and the information you provide.
Obviously, all of us in here are dying to see this thing become real but in business it is always about the ‘bottom line’ and those who can sift through the balance sheets and provide the ‘truthiness’ are all good in my book.
Makes me think about a quote I heard recently from one of my favorite TV show hosts….
“Money cant but happiness, but you can sure buy things with money that make you happy”
June 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Note: Union meeting with GM ended at 9:40 this morning:
“We are walking away incredibly disappointed,” Hargrove told reporters after a 90-minute meeting with senior GM executives including Chief Executive Rick Wagoner at the automaker’s headquarters. “We still feel betrayed.”
Hargrove said the union is considering a legal challenge to GM’s decision to close its Oshawa truck plant, among other possible steps. A local official with the Canadian union said a blockade that has shut down work at GM’s headquarters building in Canada would continue.
Well, no surprises there…however it looks as if escalation is in the cards.
GM is off another 4% today. Trading around $16.40ish…another fresh 33 year low. It is actually within a couple bucks now of being well…the lowest it’s ever been? I don’t know…I only have data back to the 50s. Stupid tradestation.
June 6th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Great to see you’re finally putting some effort into extreme fuel economy. Unfortunately, I predict the Japanese automakers will continue to grow and dominate the market. Quality issues and resell value that haunt USA cars must be addressed competitively.
June 6th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Read the last paragraph.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080605/AUTO01/806050478/1148/AUTO01
Take Care
Arch
June 6th, 2008 at 9:37 am
“Also in accompaniment was Volt Vehicle Line Director Tony Pozawatz”
Shouldn’t that be spelled Pozawatts?
June 6th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Well, it looks like everyone had a busy night last night. Some of you need to chill (you know who). You would think your sole purpose was to pour cold water on the Volt idea. Do you hate GM? Yes, I think so of you do. With some justification, I might add. GM certainly gave us plenty of reasons to hate them. Some of their decisions were just plain dumb. The lasted one to buy COBASYS may be just as dumb. I don’t know - not knowledgeable enough about the circumstances of the deal at this time. Time will tell if it is dumb or smart. I hope for smart. Based on some of your comments, I think failure is what some of you hope for.
Let’s give GM a break. This is a tough enough job without all the problems that have been thrown up since the concept car was introduced. Let’s keep pushing GM to do better. Let’s keep praising GM when they do good. Let’s keep hoping for an earlier release of the Volt and introductions of new E-FLEX vehicles (like a BEV).
June 6th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Hi Statik:
Wanted to say first that I appreciate your honest posts and sense of humor about things.
In regards to GM’s financial standings, we most likely won’t see improvements until some of these fuel efficient models start becoming available and plentiful in numbers. I’m speaking of their proposed Cobalt replacement, some more hybrids, the Beat or whatever it is to be named, and then last but certainly not least, the Volt of course. GM has acknowledged that the “old standby” of market cycles and fuel supplies is not going to change towards the cheap again. Isn’t it always said that “admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery”? It seems they have done that and are doing everything to turn that around. So many of us come down hard on GM for being so slow to see this, (and I’m not making any excuses for them), but don’t you think Toyota is feeling pretty foolish for just dumping 1.4 Billion (with a ‘B’) into that Texas factory to make huge Tundra pick-ups, and probably never see it run at near capacity? Nissan announced it will quit making Titan pick-ups in its Mississippi factory in about 2 years and will sell a Dodge built pick-up after that. Same situation for them. I’m hoping GM can pull out of their slump, and as far as I can tell, they are making the right moves to do that. I can’t criticize them for trying. What do you think?
June 6th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Well, it looks like everyone had a busy night last night. Some of you need to chill (you know who). You would think your sole purpose was to pour cold water on the Volt idea. Do you hate GM? Yes, I think so of you do. With some justification, I might add. GM certainly gave us plenty of reasons to hate them. Some of their decisions were just plain dumb. The lasted one to buy the battery maker may be just as dumb. I don’t know - not knowledgeable enough about the circumstances of the deal at this time. Time will tell if it is dumb or smart. I hope for smart. Based on some of your comments, I think failure is what some of you hope for.
Let’s give GM a break. This is a tough enough job without all the problems that have been thrown up since the concept car was introduced. Let’s keep pushing GM to do better. Let’s keep praising GM when they do good. Let’s keep hoping for an earlier release of the Volt and introductions of new E-FLEX vehicles (like a BEV).
June 6th, 2008 at 10:07 am
That last post of mine went into moderation because I had the name of the battery company GM is intending to buy. I replaced the name with the words t”the battery maker” and it went through ok. Now how does moderation really work?
June 6th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I am thinking about starting a blog with the purpose of giving all the GM haters a single source to spout off their mouths about how bad GM is and how they can’t do anything right and how they should be put out of business. Maybe those people will give the rest of us a break and stay on that site while the rest of us spend our time actually talking about what we all signed up on this site for.
I am not talking about you, Statik. We need your kind of creative negativism. That is good for us. Plus, your glass is always half full of positivism. I had to get both of those “isms” in there.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:22 am
#126 Schmeltz
You are definitely right about the other automakers being almost as insane as GM. Just because Toyota is the market leader doesn’t make them infallible by any stretch. Your example of the Tundra is a perfect example of a failure to interpret the market.
It may well be that the auto industry is currently turning into the airline Industry, where no one makes money and it is a competition to see who is the ‘least losery’ every year. There definitely needs to be some attrition in the segment.
Naturally, I also cannot criticize them for trying. Surely they are indeed trying to make money.
“Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery” is indeed the first step. Generally followed by stopping whatever vice it is that you have relied on, ie) drugs, booze…sex?
However GM’s problem right now is not really incorrect interpretation of the market and the platforms it has offered (is offering)…although that is still a major part.
GM’s problem is a massive debt burden in a contracting sector. GM has not admitted it’s cash/debt situation is at the crisis level, nor does it serve it’s own purpose to do so, for fear of losing its credit rating further and plumetting it’s share price. The eventual last move in this ‘Step program’ is Chapter 11.
The only hope for reversal, is for A) widespread turnaround in market conditions in the next 12-18 months and B) widespread adoption/acceptance of it’s new platforms…which must get to market in the fastest possible timeframe
June 6th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Ahh the truthiness….sometimes it hurts….
And on a positive note lets get this great idea going again…c’mon all you GM haters, you know you want to copy/paste the following in your next posting:
“GM, AS THE MANY POSTS ABOVE HAVE ALSO REQUESTED
—PLEASE CONTACT ME 1ST BY EMAIL —I WANT TO BUY A VOLT!!!”
June 6th, 2008 at 10:29 am
N Riley #
I agree with you very much ! It is so easy to criticize when you are not in their shoes. We all make mistakes, that is part of being in business. Wouldn’t it be a wonderful world if we never made mistakes ? Oil prices are where they are today because of our mistakes in thinking we have to have large SUV’s and trucks. GM produces what we demand !
It amazes me how we can all see GM’s problems when we are on the outside looking in.
God Bless America,
Tom
June 6th, 2008 at 10:35 am
While Bob Lutz’s ride is not on the same level as Paul Reveres’ ride, it has a positive significance for most of us. We don’t know just what was in the car, do we? It may have had more of the final components than some of you are willing to suggest. I do not know. I believe GM is pretty much on schedule and somewhat ahead of schedule in a number of things. I still say they could release the initial slew of Volts by early 2010 with heavier production occurring during the summer of 2010.
At this point in time, only GM knows. Maybe when they show their Volt to congress this month it will be the final version for production. Hey! A guy can hope. Can’t he.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Thanks for not putting me in the “GM haters” Riley.
I like to think I am actually encouraging GM to be as strong as possible and to built the best, most market savvy Volt it can. I just do my encouraging through spanking/constructive criticism rather than praise.
It is in GM’s best interest to be honest with itself I think, deal with it’s problems head on. I get the feeling that no one in that boardroom is really making the hard choices, just putting things off as long as they can and then making snap decisions as situations escalate beyond containment.
I don’t really know what the answer is for them going forward. Maybe it’s just being honest and throwing itself at he mercy of the public…maybe it’s attempting to get more gov’t intervention (it is a election year after all)…maybe it’s trying to find a 3rd party buyer to get itself out of this mess…maybe it’s Chapter 11. Regardless, decisions have to be made…or they will be made for them, and that is never a good situation.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:43 am
[...] http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/05/bob-lu…-electrifying/ Quote: [...]
June 6th, 2008 at 11:06 am
N Riley #127 & #129:
I agree. Well said.
GM has done stuff day by day for years which makes a lot of us absolutely crazy, but we are still going to be a lot better off if they survive and prosper. I have been as negative as anyone at times, just out of total frustration. But I am trying to discipline myself to devote whatever time and energy I have for these issues to doing whatever little I can to help to push them in the right direction.
#122 Statik:
I have been glancing through an old book I have by Ian Hogg which is sort of an encyclopedia of old military vehicles. I just happened upon a “Chevrolet” 4×4 sort of weapons carrier truck produced at Oshawa for the Canadian and British armies from about 1939-45. What a sad loss of a great piece of history.
June 6th, 2008 at 11:38 am
It is amazing that people are still hung up on the EV-1. At this stage an electric car as in the EV-1 without range extension is useless. Certainly as a primary vehicle this was the main reason the EV1 failed and this is the main reason the Volt will succeed. Pure electric is the future but not now. We need an orderly transition to it. Neither the current battery technology nor energy logistics would suit the eventual replacement of
200 to 300 million cars.
June 6th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Statik #134
Your post #134 is a primary reason why I could never classify you as a GM hater. That was an excellent comment. I give you credit for very thought provoking comments. You rival Noel and Nasaman. I know that all three of you will keep pushing where necessary and encouraging when needed.
June 6th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Noel Park
I believe if GM can get some new vehicles out the door to the market ASAP with good gas mileage, they can weather this storm. They now have quite a number of very economical vehicles on the market now. The problem is the large trucks, Suvs and the Hummer. I really don’t know much about their smaller truck mpg.
One thing most of don’t talk about is GM has the best truck mileage figures of the large truck segment. The pickup truck market is too valuable to the public and business to be allowed to “go away”. What would we do without trucks? Could we even imagine? GM will improve their trucks with the two-mode drive system and possibly with some version of the E-FLEX technology.
But, I believe GM’s future is a good one, IF they can get through the next 3 years. There seems to be more worry about Ford and Chrysler than GM.
June 6th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Last fall, Bob Lutz, Jon Lauckner & apparently many other key people at GM were said to be somewhat surprised to learn that DRAG has a larger effect on EV range than MASS —based on the Volt concept’s wind tunnel testing & analysis. Since that discovery, I’ve often wondered if GM wishes they had instead (or also) decided to promote a somewhat larger vehicle —one that could command a higher MSRP than the compact 4-seat Volt.
Although the market for large SUVs is imploding (down ~15.9% in the past year), sales of CUVs are EXploding (up 30.7% in 2007 compared to 2006). And on top of that growth, the CUV Saturn VUE’s sales were up another 83.5% between April 2007 & April 2008*. As a result, I’ve wondered if it wouldn’t be wise for GM to begin recovering more of the E-REV development cost by producing a Cadillac Provoq concept like that shown as a fuel-cell concept this January —BUT AS AN ENTIRELY-ELECTRIC CROSSOVER/ COMPACT SUV that borrows heavily from the design of either the Plug-in Volt, the Plug-in VUE, or both.
Consequently, I have been vigorously lobbying GM at the decision-making levels since January to produce an electric CUV with an EV-only range of 35-40miles, and have hand-carried or emailed a 2-pg dissertation containing the technical & marketing arguments explaining it to several GM executives. Anyone here who’d like a copy (2 pgs in MS Word) of the exact document I’ve given several members of management at GM is welcome to it. Just email me at nasaman@earthlink.net & ask for the “Plug-in CUV Proposal to GM”.
*Data is from http://www.NADAguides.com
June 6th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I want to say I sometimes get very frustrated reading some of the post and relating it to what is going on in the world. I have a tendency to respond by shooting from the hip. I am sorry if I put anyone’s back up. You must forgive me as I forgive those who speak with some of the same frustrations I feel. It is going to be, possibly, a tough next three years for all of us. But, who knows. Maybe the price of crude will drop over the next few years as a way of trying to slow the advancement of electrical vehicles and we all will make it through this without going bankrupt trying to pay for our gasoline.
Even if that does happen (lower prices, God forbid bankruptcy), I will buy a Volt as long as I am financially and physically able to do so. That is one pledge I will make now to one and all.
Thanks for letting me vent a little.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Grizzly - Yep, you beat me to the PDNFTT comment.
NZDavid, not to worry - or need a couch, that’s just another “pundit” talking. He probably thought Hillary would get the nomination, too.
Just for perspective, it wasn’t tooooo awful long ago that we were worried about whether the Volt would ever be more than a really neat concept. NOW we’re debating what color we want!
June 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
#143 — PIckup trucks still are being sold in large numbers, even this year. The numbers are just not as large as there are factories to make trucks. As you said, this segment is too valuable to go away. People are reacting right now with delays in purchase, not decisions not to purchase. Every crisis has its time course. Gas prices will come down some, people will take on a more positive outlook, and sales of pickups will rise again, though probably not to the previous high levels.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
nasaman
Thanks. You have been doing us all a great service. Many here may just now be learning of your service. We should all read that document.
Again, Thank You!
June 6th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
If someone here started a “Why I STILL hate GM.com” website, then WE could go there and be the trolls! How great is that?