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Who Killed the Hummer?

June 4th, 2008 | Posted in: General

These recent days events truly represent a profound watershed. Since the early 90s when gas used to cost less than $1 per gallon, Americans have become obsessed with SUVs, bigger is better. Carmakers not only helped cause the boom but have continued to supply those cars and profit from them. None more emblematic of this phenomenon is the massive and perhaps egregious Hummer.

The idea of an electric car isn’t new, lets face it some of the first vehicles of the early twentieth century ran on batteries. The EV-1 was also a good idea ahead of its time. Its just that cheap and plentiful fuel, and the false sense of power and security of driving around in a living room on wheels was more alluring to the populace.

In May, GM experienced a decrease of 39% in truck sales compared to the year prior.

Even more telling, for the same interval, Hummer sales plummeted 60%.

As has been mentioned, GM announced it is cutting SUV production, and thinking about killing or selling the Hummer brand. Practically in the next breath they announced the electric Chevy Volt has been approved for production.

We are at a crossroads in automotive history. GM as one of the world’s largest automakers is setting the tone for the future. Toyota has done its part as well. GM has indicated they believe high gas prices are here to stay, and that these events are not transient but fundamental.

They have also no choice but to listen to the consumer whose wallets aren’t big enough for their SUVs anymore.

So while it might not be so clear who killed the electric car, it seems clearer who killed the Hummer.

We did.

Posted by: Lyle

134 Responses to “Who Killed the Hummer?”

Jason M. Hendler Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

When I read that headline, it made it perfectly clear that trends have turned 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
Guy Incognito Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Farewell Hummer, you will not be missed.
Brian M Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

I say Lyle did it. Good work.
Van Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

There is a funny routine where a clever redneck points out that we say losts of really dumb things, and then the punch line is “here’s your sign.” When I see folks driving around in Excursions, or Hummers, I think “here’s your sign.”

A sedan that weighs at least 3600 lbs, with a 5 star crash rating, is as safe as any vehicle on the road, so there is no excuse to buy these gas hogs except to make a statement, and finally people are understanding exactly what that statement is.
Paul B. Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

The buying public killed the Hummer
OhmExcited Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

Different strokes for different folks. Don’t blame GM for providing Hummers. Blame GM for NOT providing what people would have otherwise bought (i.e. hybrid and electric drivetrain technology).
N Riley Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Goodbye Hummer. It was good while it lated. Maybe some enterprising company will pick you up and do pre-order build program. I know all those Hollywood greenies would love to have one. Farewell. You will not be the last great one to fall.
N Riley Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

It was good while it lasted. Sorry about that. Can’t seem to make my fingers work as good as they used to on a keyboard.
beachliving Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

It’s fitting that the hummer tried to replace the EV1 and now the Volt will replace the Hummer. Nothing against the Hummer it has it’s place just not as a everyday American car.
noel park Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

In line with my announced goal of trying to be more positive, I borrow the following from the late, great, Jim Healy:

“Comment…………………………………….. No Comment!
Tim Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

It’s ironic that WAR over oil has helped to kill the Hummer.

I hope that this is the beginning of the the end of both oil and war!

(i doubt it)
N Riley Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

Each of us played our part in GM’s and the other companies production of the kind of cars and trucks that we now do not want. Cannot blame GM for providing the vehicles we purchased. They were just meeting demand. Now the worm has turned. I don’t care how cheap gasoline and diesel gets in the future, I am buying hybrids (plug-in when available). The future can not get here fast enough for me.
Statik Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

Soccor moms and should never had hummers to start with. Bringing it to the suburbs was ill-conceived.

I’m sure the Hummer will live on…but the way it was originally intended to.
N Riley Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Tim

Do you live in the real world? War was with us long before oil was discovered. Oil is the current whipping boy for those who say that we must have peace at any price. If there was no oil in the mid-east, the area would not be as important to the world, I agree. But oil plays a major role today, I agree. Remove oil and we will still have war. It is in mankind’s nature to use force when governments are arrayed against each other. Warfare for the sole purpose of protecting oil resources is a modern affair. No war to date has been fought exclusively about oil. If we do not move away from oil, that will not be the case in the future.
N Riley Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

i have not seen any “soccer moms” driving Hummers. Big Chevy, GMC and Ford SUV’s, yes. But, I know what you mean.

Got my first: The server at gm-volt.com is taking too long to respond.
Boy, we must be really working it over. Time to upgrade the server, Lyle.
Grant Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

Who killed the hummer?

The economically stressed public…in the showroom…with the lead pipe…
Large Smile Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

GM is killing himself by focusing on short-term gains, now it is in trouble and may not even survive!
DaV8or Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

I think it would be a mistake to dump Hummer at this point but I understand that they need the cash (if anybody wants to buy it) and it’s quick way to cut costs. Ford did the same thing with Land Rover and Jaguar. Some people really like the utilitarian, suedo military off road SUV and they will again. This concept of vehicle is far from dead. They just need to build even smaller ones and ones with alternate drivetrains. Think Suzuki Samuri. However, I guess they could just offer a GMC Hummer as a seperate model of GMC and dump the brand.
mien green Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

Don’t know about the Hummer, but it looks like the Governator killed GM.
Brian M Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

DaV8or:

I think it’s about more than just raising cash. It’s a sign to the public that says “We get it.”

They could just as easily sell off Saab or Holden, or kill Pontiac and Buick and GMC. If they choose to sell Hummer, it may symbolize the future direction of GM.
DaveP Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

GM killed the Hummer, no doubt about it. The original Hummer was by AM General (the Jeep folks) who took the military HMMWV, or Humvee, and sold it to the public. It was a really, really, niche market for people who wanted to scale cliffs with their truck. When GM bought the rights, GM killed it by TRIPLING the price (H1) and substituting a gussied up Silverado in it’s place (H2). Nobody knows what the heck that vehicle was for, as it fell far short of the original’s capabilities and faired not much better offroad than a, well, Silverado, but at 2-3x the price. And then later they created a tarted up Colorado as well (H3). That vehicle is even more mystifying with even less significant off road capability and certainly nothing like the original, but again, for far more money than it’s platform stablemates.

And if simply being overpriced 2-3x wasn’t enough, when sales slumped, they actually went to the dealerships and told them they had to build entire indoor offroad test tracks for customers or they would revoke the dealership franchise!!
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/03/12/silicon-valley-hummer-dealership-closes-for-now/

Hmmm, the cheap folks at the local Mercury News paper no longer have that article available. But in searching around for it, I found this sobering one, which is unrelated:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8901753?nclick_check=1
That’s one for Statik…
nasaman Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

I hear a crack automotive CSI team concluded IT WAS SUICIDE!!!
Kent Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

I bought a Hummer H3 (the “small” Hummer) not too long ago and I love it for my family road trips. I wouldn’t trade it for anything else and I won’t complain about the cost of driving it. That being said, I only use the H3 for family road trips, not on my daily 50 mile roundtrip commute to work. For my commute, I use a motorcycle which gets 45+ MPGs. My point is…some people may need a huge gas guzzler every now and then, but when they don’t, be practical and use something more economical. Why does anyone need to commute with a 7-8 passenger vehicle when there is only one person in the car?
Nelson Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

The Hummer and all gas only powered cars were killed by the public and thought provocateurs like h2fcell on YouTube. I like his/her video “Waiting for Change” published 4/22/2007.
DaveP Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

My previous message may still be in moderation so these may be out of order. But I found a copy of the article about the Silicon Valley Hummer dealership closing. Thanks Google overlords!! It is interesting because it was not just closing because of sluggish sales, but because of new GM dealership requirements:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:jjZqUych6WUJ:origin.mercurynews.com/business/ci_8403739+silicon+valley+hummer+closes&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

The irony here is that they were going to give the Hummer franchise to one of the other dealers on Steven’s Creek… OOOOPS, that’s not going to happen, either as they just went out of business as well:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8901753?nclick_check=1

This was all just in the last 3 months. Not looking so good for GM around these here parts…
kent beuchert Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

What’s unnoticed at this time is that electric propulsion, if backed up with a practical, affordable electrical storage device, such as EESTor’s EESUs will actually make vehicles like the Hummer practical again. Our country mistakenly is confusing size with efficiency and operating costs, ala the 1970’s era thinking, while the Volt test experience and the vastly lower cost of electricity , per se, as a fuel, is pointing toward vehicles that don’t have to be cramped and tiny to be cost effective. The population is thus carrying old concepts into an age (electrical propulsion) where
they no longer apply. Some are doing exactly the same thing when it
comes to energy usage and conservation – they are huckstering conservation as some kind of solution, but simply looking around at all those billions of people who need and deserve energy way beyond their current levels, tells me that conservation is an elitist notion and totally absurd, as well as being selfish. When we move away from finite fossil fuels we also move away from limits on energy availability. We could never possibly use all the energy that’s available from the sun – we could actually be in position to export solar produced electricity north and turn the tables on the prevailing energy paths. Old concepts die hard and I wonder how long before the public becomes aware that freeing ourselves from fossil fuels is actually freeing ourselves from any limits on energy usage. GM might well consider loooking at all the nooks and crannies of a
Hummer without its traditional powertrain and determining just how many EEStor devices could be packaged therein. It might have a range of 900 miles, all electric.
Arch Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

DaV80r

GM owns 30% of Suzuki. They would be a perfect choice to build a small Hummer.

Take Care
Arch
Mark Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

Who cares who killed the Hummer. It needed to die years ago, along with SUV’s.
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

Clearly, when energy costs aren’t an issue, Americans want giant, aggressive vehicles. The electrification of the auto is starting with small to mid-size cars. As BEV and E-REV technology advances, we’ll see bigger vehicles. The Hummer (or a Hummer-like vehicle) will come back humming.
Toby Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

#23 – I agree with you completely, and expect electric vehicles such as the Volt (which I will buy immediately upon release) will open the technological door to allow us to build efficient electric vehicles in the next 10 years (or sooner). Bottom line, there is a market share that wants large vehicles, either for business needs or large families, or simply by choice. And America allows the consumer to choose. I bet we’ll see the rush back to SUVs (albeit with zero emission electic propulsion systems) when EV technology allows them to be economically viable.
Firefly Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

To #23 Ken
I find it hard to believe that a Hummer would be practical. For one thing, it was too big. For two it was too awkward (blind spot from hell). And third, weight isn’t that much of an E-Flex issue until you have too much weight. We could theoretically E-Flex a Peterbuilt, but it’ll still use up more electricity and biofuel. It’ll also need one hell of a battery to move it.
As far as Hummer goes, it had a good run. I can’t say a great run because it if was, Hummers would not have been outsold by the Escalade (another tool for puny soccer moms and men who tend to overcompensate).
GM is wise as you can’t set sailing without cutting the anchor. If you asked me (and I know you didn’t) it’s about damn time.
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

Dang y’all. I tried to come up with a previously unmentioned thought relevant to the thread. While I was composing it, kent hit “Submit Comment” and beat me to it. At least I beat Toby.

Volt me! Can mine have an body that drops accumulated ionic dust at the push of a button?
Rashiid Amul Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

Tim, #10 says, “I hope that this is the beginning of the the end of both oil and war! (i doubt it)”

I doubt it also.
noel park Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

#10 Tim and #32 Rashiid Amul:

I hear you, but we cannot give up trying. If we do not find a way, I fear that mankind may not survive to see the year 2100.

If successful, the Volt will be one baby step in the right direction.

I honor you all as leaders in this struggle.
George B. Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

Maybe I’m in the minoirty here, but I’ve always thought the Hummer was silly. This is a military assualt vehicle, for Pete’s sake! I have never seen one on the road and not thought ” What are they thinking???”
Rashiid Amul Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

There is nothing wrong with wanting a Hummer, SUV, or Truck.
These vehicles just desperately need to be converted to an EREV design.
Kubel Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

GM screwed up again. They should have sold the Hummer brand years ago while it was still worth something.
Luke Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

I don’t think that anyone needed to kill the Hummer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSMTRxIknpw

But I don’t care who killed the Hummer… It’s never been a vehicle that has any relevance to my lifestyle, so my only experience with them is trying to avoid being run over by them on the Interstate — and also the occasional YouTube video.
Drake Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

Best headline of all time.

Big vehicles will be relatively scarce for the next decade or two until battery technology is perfected. Once the needed battery tech is in place, big vehicles will be back with a vengeance (not to mention electric delivery vans, eighteen wheelers, construction vehicles etc.)

Until then, I will be happy with my 4-cylindar ULEV and clean conscience.
omegaman66 Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

kent beuchert and ThombDbhomb are right. Took the words right out of my mouth. Once batteries like the volt will have (or better) become the norm vehicle size will not be limited by the cost of fuel (electricity) and the SUV that all you tree huggers hate will be back. And the true nature of your hatred will show. You just hate people having stuff that they don’t absolutely have to have.
Vincent Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

I really like GM many GM vehicles. Hummers…everyone had to have one when they made the H2.
Unfortunately they didn’t go Diesel.
I just hit 30 MPG going to Manhattan for a trade show today with my VW Twin Turbo V10 Diesel. That beats Many, Many cars on the road.
Jackson Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

If a Hummer-like vehicle can be developed that goes 40 miles on a charge, it will probably mean that an electrified roller-skate smaller than the Volt can go 100. Only improvements in battery cost and performance can give birth to the electric behemoth, but those same improvements will help smaller vehicles more. Large vehicles, electric or no, will continue to be sought out only by those who need them, or have the money and want them. If those people help the rest of us get to 100+ miles per charge at a reasonable cost, we win.
jbfalaska Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

Fuel costs, maintenance costs, a warming globe are part of it. I’ll add for me, having served in the military, I’m tired of watching our boys and girls go overseas, not for Democracy regardless of the spin wonks, but for Oil. My 20 years wearing jungle BDUs reflecting the values of fighting against communism following the Vietnam era, was a blithe reminder as to how far our politicians strayed from our principles – always we found ourselves sent away from our families to police Oil Highways flowing from nations that hate us.

I’ll take a Humvee if it’s electric – CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED.
jbfalaska Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

I agree with the majority of posts here. It isn’t about the vehicle and size as much as what is powering the vehicle and impact on the globe overall. Electricity will not always come from fossils.

Electricity can come from transponders generated by Oil, Coal, Nuclear, Geothermal, Fusion, Hydro, Bio-mass, Bio-diesel, solar, and so forth; so as Bob Lutz said, if they can achieve the science of a battery to go 300 miles on a (quick) charge, why would there be a need to look at other propulsion means. The “electrification of the automotive” industry is the straight-forward answer, otherwise someday we’ll find ourselves victim to another tightening resource.
Terry K Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Have any of you been inside a Hummer? Actually, the interior is not all that big, it’s just that the vehicle is really tall. Good for negotiating flooded streets, but not so good for packing luggage into, after the return flight home. I looked at it before I bought my current Honda Odyssey – not enough interior room. The Odyssey is cavernous, huge inside.

Plus, unlike the Hummer, I don’t have to climb up to get into my Honda. I WILL have to get used to crouching down to get into the Volt. The Volt is worth it. With airlines cutting back on checked bags, I’ll have less baggage to put inside my Volt. They should fit, I hope.
jbfalaska Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Has anyone ever looked at the GM versus Toyota balance sheets?

GM is in debt over $300,000,000,000.00, while Toyota has cash on hand. The Volt really is probably GM’s last shot at the moon. I’ll be there to help by reserving a place in my garage for one of the Volt’s. GM deserves credit for having made America a greater nation in our past. Please, let’s not forgot the General.
Brad Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 9:17 pm

I’m not sure if others noticed but the Chevy Volt was featured as a top story on http://www.foxnews.com for a little while. The article had a direct link to http://www.gm-volt.com. This was also around the time when it seems like the site was offline. I don’t think it could handle all the hits coming from foxnews. THANKS FOX NEWS! GO GM!
Statik Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

#46 jbfalaska

GM sold off its assets to reduce its debt load over two years ago. Taking down from 460 billion to 185…no where near 300 billion in debt.

185 is still bad…but when saying has ‘anyone ever looked at the GM vs Toyota balance sheets…it’s good to actually have done so recently yourself.

Also on a technical level and speaking of ‘cash on hand,’ both GM and Toyota have a very similar cash pile, actually GM has a little more. Aprox 21 billion left at GM, Toyota has about 19.5-20 billion.

Furthermore, Toyota actually has as much debt as GM, 175 billion. However, they have 275 billion on the asset sidev(over 200 mil in current assets and long term investments), more than counterbalancing it, making them more than a viable entity…and of course, they actually make money.

I know what you are trying to say, sort of. Your last three sentences are confusing at best. Are they written in reverse order?
Eric E Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

Wake me when it’s over…
Jim I Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 9:54 pm

Trying to figure out what people want to buy must drive car manufacturers crazy. Especially when it takes a few years to get new models out on the road.

If they make an electric Hummer, I am sure there will be people who will spend the cash for it, no matter what it costs, or even if they really need a vehicle that size.

Personally, I do not need a 4 seat / 4 door Volt. I do fine right now with a two seat Chrysler Crossfire. But if that is what GM is going to produce, that is what I will buy, because I have the magic magnet that says “My Next Car Will Be Electric”!!!!

Go GM Volt Team!!!
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 9:54 pm

#14 N Riley
Tim #11 expressed a desire for peace. Then he added “(I doubt it),” which seems like a real world concession. Given that, perhaps your “Do you live in the real world?” was not necesary. Cut him some slack, please. Let’s not flame up. We all want the Volt…and peace (I hope).

#36 Rashiid Amul
“There is nothing wrong with wanting a Hummer, SUV, or Truck.”

…So, said GM for many years (ba-da-bum!). Often, a vehicle is a manifestation of an attitude. I’ve come to appreciate refined understatement. I know others like big and brash. The wanting of a Hummer, SUV, or Truck for my typical uses would be wrong for me. I’ll buy one of each and use them as utility demands.

#40 omegaman66
I’m glad we can find things to agree on. I hope you can take what I am about to say as constructive criticism…

“…and the SUV that all you tree huggers hate will be back. And the true nature of your hatred will show. You just hate people having stuff that they don’t absolutely have to have.”

That quote suggests you might have some “hate” issues of your own. Let’s not go there.
Hummer McFly Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Being of the minority opinion here, I still believe larger vehicles (like the Hummer) have notable attributes that make them advantageous to drive in this day and age (regardless of fuel costs). These include: interior space, performance and the benefits of mass.

About the first time someone cuts your tin can in half at an intersection, you’ll think the additional $2000 a year in extra Truck/SUV fuel costs would have been worth it after all.

But then again, you did save $2000 in gas…
jbfalaska Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

To the post high above, easy to agree with your point. Once electric propulsion is well placed, the Humvees, chassied to electric drive, silent dreams will return to the streets. Running on electric, they’ll achieve a rough parity to $1.50 a gallon gas. The race to big is on again.

I’ll be happy in my Volt, or even Aptera, or conversion car. Wish GM would take deposits. $10K sitting ready.
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

#52 Hummer McFly

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the statistics suggest that larger vehicles (like the Hummer) are not safer.
Texas Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

Hummer McFly,

True. However, If people thought about others rather than just themselves they would not be driving such dangerously huge vehicles around.

Doesn’t really matter, the high cost of gas will take care of that little mess soon enough. I for one can’t wait to be able to ride on the streets again in a reasonable car and have some sense of safety. All this obvious waste is just embarrassing.
Jeff M Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

Lyle: “We are at a crossroads in automotive history”

Actually we are at a crossroads in energy policy, of which automotive history is just one part of. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some time in the rest of my lifetime the return of the large (and profitable for the automakers) vehicles.
Mike Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

I guess Happy Jack is now Sad Jack. XD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XAFlgTEb8M
MarkinWI Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

Who drove Hummers – business that wanted attention, and men who wanted to flash their money. Thomb was right. When we find a way to power these things at an affordable price they will be back.

The one thing that surprised me out of the GM plant closures was the Canadian plant. It builds real trucks – medium duty trucks used as work horses by businesses. Despite high fuel costs, I can’t believe that the companies that rely on these trucks have a viable alternative. Is this a consolidation move? Will the trucks be built elsewhere?
voltman Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

How can you say that carmakers are responsible for making SUVs, then turn around and say that NOW they are responding to consumer demand and building fuel efficient cars. Consumer demand has ALWAYS decided what carmakers build, nothing has changed.
Keaton Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

Anyone that says its GM’s fault for killing of the hummer is ignorant. When the H2 first came out, they were selling like hotcakes. I remember my dad telling me that they were selling 50 A MONTH at the Sewell Hummer store here in Dallas. GM was listening to what the public wanted, and at the time it was a daily-drivable Hummer. And they delivered. But since gas prices have gone up, people point the finger at GM. What did GM do??? They supplied the car we wanted. I completely agree with Lyle. We killed the Hummer brand!
jscott1000 Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

The H3 is a very silly vehicle…it looks tough, but it’s 5 cylinder motor gives it a joke of a capability. When I looked at it, it does not have enough towing ability to pull my trailer.

A full sized Chevy truck has more towing ability, gets better mileage with it’s active fuel management and costs less to boot. So the H3’s niche is that it doesn’t matter if you have capability as long as you look good.

Good bye Hummer and good riddance!
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:00 am

#59 voltman
“Consumer demand has ALWAYS decided what carmakers build…”

I’m not saying GM is responsible for what people buy, but, for discussion’s sake, I’ll throw this out there – marketing helps shape consumer demand. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be “marketing.”
GHOST Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:18 am

I know who killed the electric car. GM did.
Let’s not blur the past here.

Sure a lot of people *share* this blame – but GM crushed the dang things AND they sold the technology to an OIL company.

I think it’s BLATENTLY clear who killed the electric car.

I am also elated that I may once again get behind GM and root for them to become THE automaker once again.
voltman Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:20 am

Well my wife just got an SUV about 8 months ago. We had a minivan before which wasnt all that fuel efficient in the first place. Someone decided that minivans are no longer cool, and I don’t think it was GM.
JonP Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:10 am

I remember when the Hummers 1st came out i saw a guy on the road with one of the origonal “real” hummers with steel wheels, a cloth roof, and it was like 15 ft wide. I yelled out the window “that thing is bad ass”.

He yelled back “ya this ones not for show”

In retrospect its ironic how right he was.
JonP Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:12 am

I’d love to hear everyones opinion on how OPEC will respond in the next 10 years if we electrify a majority of our vehicles. More importantly what that will do to the value of the dollar ?
DaveP Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 3:06 am

#62 ThombDbhomb :
Absolutely. I think to a large extent people were sold The Big Lie about SUV’s, namely that they wanted a big vehicle because they’d be safer, but they were not safer. I don’t think people really wanted to have a vehicle that’s hard to park and burns a lot of gas. They’d accept it if there was something else in it for them, though. Such as they really needed the space or wanted more safety. Well, that’s where the big lies were made.
People buy the cars they want, not the cars they need. I do too, I buy fast cars that far exceed the needs of basic transportation. But, I’m a “car guy” and I know exactly what I’m buying and why. Most people are not car people and they are swayed by what they hear in advertising, their experience and peer pressure.
They also respond to finances. Businesses got HUGE government tax rebates for buying big SUVs and trucks. They also upped the size of the vehicle required for the rebate until just about only the Hummer even qualified.
So, the argument that consumers bought big SUVs because that’s what they wanted has a few holes in it (namely, lies, subsidies).
I have no doubt that we have not seen the end of SUVs and trucks, though. There ARE a lot of people that know what they’re buying and are willing to live with the problems of these vehicles to get the advantages of these vehicles as well. As I’ve said, before, 20 years ago, you knew who the people were who actually NEEDED a surburban because those were the only people who had them.

This article sums it up exactly: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a conversation with somebody just like this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/john_phillips/car_buying_is_easy_when_fido_barks_the_numbers_column/(page)/1

#60 Keaton:
I stand by my misstatements. GM killed the Hummer. The REAL Hummer. And notwithstanding that, the H2 may have been a real marketing success, initially, but it sowed the seeds of its own destruction, same as many other cars that are “flash in the pan” successes. Image sells, but it doesn’t last unless you have some real product differentiation to back it up. The H2 being a VERY expensive silverado derivative virtually guaranteed it would fade away in favor of it’s cheaper alternatives. The government subsidies probably kept it around longer than it would have otherwise, too.
DaveP Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 4:42 am

I just tried the link I posted earlier from a different computer. Apparently some caching going on as it worked from my original computer I posted from. Anyway, the link as I posted it doesn’t work but this is how it should have been:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8901753
To quote the article about the closing of the GM dealerships on Steven’s Creek (for those not from around Silicon Valley, it is probably the main “auto-row” in the entire area), Santa Clara county for all practical purposes IS silicon valley:

To quote the article:
In 2007, five General Motors dealers selling Buick, Pontiac and GMC vehicles in Santa Clara County sold 2,132 new cars and trucks, according to R.L. Polk registration figures. That’s an average of 426 vehicles per dealership, or eight a week.
Meanwhile, the county’s four Toyota dealers sold 19,141 new vehicles in 2007. That works out to 4,785 vehicles each, or 92 cars and trucks a week.
NZDavid Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 4:43 am

Lyle says:
“So while it might not be so clear who killed the electric car, it seems clearer who killed the Hummer.
We did.”

I agree. It’s also us that will make EV’s a success. I think GM has finally got their heads around peak oil when they say “these events are not transient but fundamental”.
NZDavid Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 4:55 am

JonP
They will continue pumping and selling oil for jet fuel, industry, ships, and Hawaii’s diesel fired power stations etc. The question should be:

Can we build EV’s fast enough to offset OPEC’s declining production?
Dave G Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 6:39 am

There’s nothing wrong with SUVs. If you need to drive off road or in deep snow, you’ll want an SUV. And Hummer probably makes the best off road vehicle.

The problem is fashion. Prior to the mid 90s, most women wouldn’t be caught dead driving a truck. How SUVs became fashionable for normal driving is beyond me.

So SUVs wont go away, but I really hope that they lose appeal for typical driving, and go back to dirt roads and deep snow where they belong. I also hope they make an E-REV SUV for those people who need them.
RxTx Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 6:42 am

I agree…..Lyle did!
OzoneLevel Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 7:22 am

Nonsense. The Hummer isn’t dead, merely taking a pause. It will rise once again as an EREV with 4 wheel hub motors, 100 mi all electric range and a 50KW on-board generator that can be used for emergency backup power. Whoever owns Hummer then will sell all they can produce. Like someone once said: “I’ll be back…”
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 7:39 am

#73 OzoneLevel

I agree the large platforms aren’t dead. They are taking a ‘pause’ but I think like a great many people here, we are deluding ourselves as to when ‘the great electrical revolution’ hits.

We still have to get one mass produced electric car on the road…even the Volt in it’s truest, rawest sense is only a 40 mile EV.

A SUV/Hummer would need a monster battery pack (cost?) to go with it’s ICE –>which when working would still be getting crappy MPGs (based on ‘tomorrow’s standards’), so you’d need probably 80 mile range on the pack. On top of this you still have to actually produce the SUV itself and the rising cost of all that raw material.

If a Volt costs 45K, when other cars rolling off the same platform are 15K…thats a 30K premium. Just go ahead and tack a premium like that on a $40,000-$50,000 SUV/Hummer. For that kind of scratch…yupe, you might as well use gas.

I’m not saying it isn’t coming…it is. But more than likely, we are talking decades before drive one home from your new Hummer/Escalade from your local Toyota Dealership.
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 7:42 am

Golly, I’ve lost the ability to put sentences together, that last sentence reads:

“I’m not saying it isn’t coming…it is. But more than likely, we are talking decades before you can drive your new Hummer/Escalade home from your local Toyota Dealership.”

/twists knife
Mike Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 7:49 am

#71 Dave G
Not sure if you’ve ever seen that “Cars” CGI movie, but something at the very end is very telling of how SUV drivers really are. There is a Hummer character who’s with a bunch of other “pretty” SUVs doing an offroad course. When told they have to actually go offroad, the Hummer character says “But I’ll get my wheels dirty!” or something to that effect. It’s classic. XD
Jim I Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:04 am

Dave G #71: ” How SUVs became fashionable for normal driving is beyond me.”

I remember watching a show on advertising. They had an ad company exec for a car manufacturer that said something like “If we market it right, we could get almost everyone back using manual transmissions.” I never forgot that. He was sure of the power of advertising to lead people to buy what they are selling. Just look at the car ads now. They are telling us that 20 MPG highway for a huge SUV is something we should think is great!!

As long as there was lots of money to throw around, no one really cared. Now that the economy is tight, people are looking to save.

JMHO
Chris Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:06 am

I think it’s funny how folks on this board think that hummers are evil and gm is evil for making them, and we’re evil for buying them. Hummers are excellent vehicles that just happen to cost too much. If you’ve never driven one, don’t knock it, just be mad at the price of gas.
Firefly Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:16 am

#73 OzoneLevel

Taking a pause? Hmm…let me see.

You say-4 wheel hub motors? I say-yeah, let’s add more unsprung weight
You say-100 mile AER? I say-not while it’s less aerodynamic than my house
You say-50 KwH generator? I say-now we have a renewed need for large radiators
You say-backup power? I say-thanks. Now we REALLY need to up biofuel production

GM’s principle concern with the Volt has been a ton of testing in the wind tunnel so that it will get the confirmed and promised 40 miles. Aerodynamically that is currently not possible with ANY Hummer. If that were not the case, they’d get better gas mileage already. #71 Dave G said that SUV’s should return in the future as vehicles used for off-road and towing. I agree with him. They are great for utilitarian usage and should be purposed for such. But seriously, show me one person that has taken an Escalade or Yukon Denali off-road? You need something like that to tow your boat or carry building supplies, not to go to Publix.
Firefly Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:18 am

#77 Jim I

You’re absolutely right. However, CAFE is going to restrict a lot of that in the near future.
RB Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:18 am

Around here in NC (despite or perhaps because of our many real military vehicles) here, Hummers were always a niche product, more of a fashion of the moment than vehicles with any widespread acceptance. A few people have purchased Hummers and liked them, but the vast majority thought of them as curiosities. A small minority, mostly now Prius owners, despised Hummers as a symbol of what this minority viewed as all the wrong goals. If GM made a mistake, it was thinking that Hummers would be a long-lasting product line, which was never in the cards.
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:25 am

#78 Chris

Are you talking about real Hummers? Or rebadged Chevs? The real Hummer does indeed have a purpose.

The H2 is ridiculous, it will be the symbol of overindulgence when people think of where we came from since the start of the new millenium.

The world is going green now…it really has no choice, either for self-preservation or merely thriftiness to attempt to bring a decent standard of living to the people living in it.

The change has come quickly, ‘greenies’ were the scourge of the earth not a few years ago, now they are everywhere, heads high.

The H2 has quickly gone from high fashion and “hey, look at me, at what I’ve accomplished”…to a dinosaur. If you take your H2 out now, you get yelled/spit at. At the very least you know that half the people that look at you think your a jackass.

And THAT is who killed the Hummer. Gas crippled SUVs, but in so doing, it also accelerated societal values…which drove the last nail into the Hummer before it even knew what was happening.
Jay Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:29 am

If General Motors has the foresight to get ahead of the wave that is coming in small fuel efficient autos in the US i.e. The SMART Car, then the Chevrolet Volt and the concept car like Beat (NY Auto Show) will roll out ASAP. There will always be dumb Americans who cling to their huge gas-hog SUVs, that’s Stupid Ugly Vehicles like the Hummer for all you short-sighted isolationist that never look at what’s going on around you! It’s time we Americans realize that this is a Global economy and either you join it or get crushed by it, take your choice. Huge houses, SUVs, boats and anything else you want all come at a price and it’s going up, like it or not! A friend once told me that owning a large boat is like having a hole in the water that you pour money into and it never fills up, thing about it and look around at the holes you and your family trying to fill up! There is NO FREE LUNCH and food is going to break your bank account too! Ask your wife about that and you will get a real reality check! Spaceman Out!
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:36 am

Actually the Volt is kind of like GM’s new Hummer…but the other way.

Now all the jackasses can go plunk down the same 50K and get the same “look at me” feeling.

(I’m not saying everyone who buys a Volt is a jackass, lol. Merely the ‘type A’ people who buy something merely to stick it in other people’s faces will buy this car).
Lyle Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:40 am

As poeple have noticed we had a serious server snag again, yesterday afternoon. Traffic has been tremendous these days.

As such, once again, I had to upgrade the server to a high-powered fully dedicated box. The upgrade ocurred overnight.

You should now notice things are much faster now than ever!
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:43 am

#85 Lyle

I did notice I can post my negative energy in a much thriftier fashion.

Thanks!
nasaman Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:46 am

TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENT, LYLE!!!

Just another symptom of explosive gm-volt.com growth –CONGRATS!

BTW, will we be doing without the editing functions with the new box?
Serpent2 Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:52 am

Gosh, not sure why they would see it off with all this new battery tech coming out. The military has tested a hybrid hummer that destroyed the one that they were using at the time. It had wheel hub motors I believe and got through the test track in 45mins. It was a better hummer overall but it cost more and I don’t think it was really needed and probably still isnt needed because it would cause too effort for one piece of equiptment. My memory is fuzy but i think the article said it was getting 75mpg. (?) Now, I know hummers are huge and all but if you offer one that can get 25-30mpg in hybrid mode people will still buy it.. until gas goes up to 8$ a gallon. Then you will see it slip away again… until ultracaps and new electric motors are on the market
Jim I Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:58 am

Jay #83:

The only problem I have with your comments is that if I want to spend my money on a Hummer, and I can afford it, who are you to tell me I can’t?

Just because you think that SUV’s are stupid, ugly, vehicles does not mean that they are to everyone else!!!

FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!!

I happen to drive a Chrysler Crossfire. It was where I wanted to spend my money. My choice, not yours or anyone else’s. To many people here, a two seat vehicle is just ridiculous. But for my wife and me, it works perfectly. I would be thrilled if the Volt was a two seater. But I also understand why GM is making the car in the configuration they are working on for the Gen-1 vehicle. I fully believe that in four or five years, there will be a two seat sports car e-flex version available. And at that time, I will probably be looking at that model!

IMHO, the worst thing that could ever happen is for us to be “told” that we all have to drive the same style of vehicle. How boring would that be?!?!?!?!? And who does the telling?

No thanks…………
voltman Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am

#63 Ghost

>I know who killed the electric car. GM did.
>Let’s not blur the past here.

GM? What about Toyotas EV? or Hondas? Where are they? The EV1 was not a viable vehicle at the time. Gas was a dollar and it was an ugly nerdmobile. If it were for sale today, I still would not buy it since I need 4 seats and I want infinite range.

Toyotas Rav4EV, now I would probably buy that.
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:03 am

I’m losing postes like crazy now, lol. This could be three of the same.

Update: GM workers in Canada still blocking entrance to GM HQ. They are telling members to turn out at 3PM for a announcement…they gould be striking, or announcing the intention to.
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:03 am

gould = could
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:03 am

postes = posts

(I just can’t let it go)
Tom M Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:09 am

N Riley & Voltman:

You both know my feelings on this matter. It is exactly as ya’ll have stated. We need to look in the mirror to see who is to blame. Auto makers only produce what we demand. Good case in point, Toyota
just completed a Hugh truck plant here in San Antonio. Well, now assembly is slowing because of lack of demand. I can name at least a dozen small cars that Detroit has produced over the last 30 years
that are not with us because of lack of demand. Our inability to have leaders that will generate a energy policy that should have been completed over thirty years ago, is coming back to haunt us. It is up to us to see that this great nation survives.
God Bless America,

Tom
Jim I Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am

Statik #91: “I’m losing postes like crazy now, lol.”

Mabey the new hardware upgrade is trying to tell you something……….

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 9:49 am

#95 Jim I

I think you are right, some kind of new filter has been implemented to try and keep me out.

From now on I’ll have to add, “GM is da best, life is good. Really good.” I actually thought of this quote when I was listening to Wagoner trying to spin his company at the annual meeting.

Link for your enjoyment to listen to:

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Nacho_Libre&quote=makesomesoup.txt&file=makesomesoup.mp3
Jay Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am

Well for all of you who want to drive your gas guzzling SUVs like the H2 and Suburban, the Oils Sheiks thank you and I thank you for helping American Oil and their stockholders become even richer! Just because you can, does not mean you should! I could afford a new Escalade and a large powerboat with a big V8 to go on the back, however I have had both and never got the pleasure that it cost to have them. I would by choice preferred to spend my money on my grandchildren and our homes, but that’s just me. Everyone has a choice and that is where the real problem lies. How much ego can you give up to be Earth friendly? Can you live Greener and more Earth friendly are do you still need to feel you are somebody in your own mine by having all the big toys on the block or tell all the guys about feeling superior to the little guys driving the small cars that you pass and look down on? Oh, by the way keep in mine that the guy in the little read car may be driving to his mega yacht of Gulfstream jet, humm maybe size is not relevant after all?
BDP Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am

Why does the hummer have to die? Upgrade it to volt drive systems & keep the useable size that I want & truly need.

Someday we’ll be off the oil, but not this decade.
Hummer McFly Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 10:24 am

#54 ThombDbhomb

Not sure what the statistics show in regards to which size vehicles are safer. I read somewhere that trucks/SUV’s tend to rollover more than cars.

However, it’s been my personal experience that larger vecles tend to withstand collisions better that small vehicles.

There’s not doubt that if my Titan collides with a Honda Civic, my vehicle will fair better than the Civic.
Jay Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 10:56 am

Hummer McFly – Your Titan should NOT collide with a Honda Civic. Just because you drive a tank does not give you the right to run over people in small vehicles. Also hope you’ve got good insurance and a good lawyer.
How big of a tank does one need? I’m sure your Titan would not fair so good with the impact of an 18 Wheeler, Humm, maybe size does matter and we all need to drive large trucks, the bigger the better?
Doesn’t make much since to me, but we could then really make the Oil companies rich and burn up the remaining oil from our planet a lot quicker forcing the vehicle manufactures to come up with an alternative methods of power to move our big trucks, hun!
Stupid is as Stupid does! – Forrest Gump.
Statik Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am

#99 Hummer McFly

Not sure what your point is really.

I can get behind someone saying they need a ton of interior room because of ‘XYZ’ or they need to haul something big.

But saying you buy a bigger vehicle so that if you plow someone in a smaller vehicle you win…is insensitive to the human condition and further undlines the stigma that Hummer/large SUV drivers are jackasses.
Dave G Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am

#99 Hummer McFly,
It doesn’t really matter how your vehicle fairs. It’s how YOU fair in an accident that matters. In crash tests, cars that are made to crumple actually fair better for injuries. Hummers are off-road vehicles. They are rigid to handle off-road abuse. So a big Hummer may actually cause more injuries to the passenger than a small Honda.
N Riley Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 11:20 am

Lyle,

Thanks for stopping the spell checker. Now things are back to normal. And thanks for the great job you are doing.
voltme Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am

I visited the Birmingham Hummer dealership yesterday to get their reaction on wagoner’s announcement

They are in complete denial

They think its a cyclical event and that the Hummer buyer is not affected by high gas prices

I told him perhaps they could retrofit the showroom for volts
He wasn’t amused
Anthony BC Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

R.I.P. Hummer, Long Live THE VOLT!

GM, let me know when you want my deposit!

Great work, Lyle!
mien green Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

A few years back I was in a hobby store looking at a matchbox car series that was based on the Monopoly game. Each square was represented by a different vehicle model. The Hummer was the $75 Luxury Tax space. Apropos even more so now.
eisemann Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

What every happed to this Concept Hybrid Electic hummer that you could recharge like that volt.

A hummer would be cool if It used no gas.

GE
Hummer McFly Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

#101 Statik

My point is simple. I believe the mass of larger vehicles gives their occupants a safety advantage over those people that drive smaller vehicles.

I never said I drive a large vehicles so I can plow into someone and win. If that were the case, I’d be driving a freight train.
J Snow Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

It would be nice that the US Government guarantee that GM survive the transition to electric cars and flex vehicles. Then again, George Bush is afraid that GM’s unions (what is left of them) will want to share in the government’s largess.
N Riley Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

J Snow

Must be nice to know what George Bush is thinking. I do not think it is the proper time to be considering a government bail out of GM.
gaff Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

My family owns two Ford Explorers by choice. I like their ability in snow, cargo capacity and vacation travel. The ownership of an SUV need not be made a moral imperative. As for being “green” the Chinese are adding two coal power generating plants a week. No one can or should dicate what i should drive.
Jason The Saj Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Why doesn’t GM build a hybrid Hummer off of the Tahoe system (at least the Hummer 2/3 which if I recall are based off the same frame)?

That, and I think they should build the Hummer Mini (essentially, body has same styling of the Hummer, but it’s essentially an off-road mini-cooper).

And if you buy a full size Hummer I, you get a free Hummer Mini and a tail hitch mount.
Kurt Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

#6 OhmExcited:

It’s simply not true that GM hasn’t provided hybrid and electric drivetrain technology. GM has sold hybrids for many years now. It’s just that the public wasn’t aware of it because they were on large city busses (which is a superior application for hybrids than is a small compact car). A GM hybrid won the “Green Car of the Year Award” at the LA Auto Show, and no one will introduce more hybrids in the next 2 years than GM. And of course, this site is all about GM’s leadership in electric drivetrain technology.
Tagamet Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Jim I, I agree with you re choice (as usual). Statik, …. oh, never mind (g)
(I really just posted to get email updates to the comments)
Be well,
T
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

#108 Hummer McFly
I know you don’t want to hurt anybody, you just want to be safe. I get your point about mass (impulse and momentum). NHTSA keeps data on car/truck/SUV incidents. Trucks and SUVs do rollover more. They have bigger blind spots. They are involved in more incidents. You are more likely to get hurt, or hurt someone, else in a truck or SUV than you are in a sedan. From a public safety standpoint, they are a scourge.
Tank McFly Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

115. ThombDbhomb

After seeing many intersection collisions in the greater Tampa Bay area (a least once a month), my family feels more safe traveling in this 5,000 lb scourge. It may be a public disservice but, we’re not willing to jeopardize our safety (perceived or not) to be more “eco-friendly” or considerate to sub-compact drivers.

To quote my wife:

“You can be the can – or the can opener”.

I would like to see the NHTSA data details trucks/SUV’s having larger blind spots as well as having higher rates of accidents with injuries to the operator and/or passengers…
Martin Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 2:20 am

Bummer for Hummer

But I gotta wonder… gas/oil consumption rising in India, China, etc is part of why gas prices have risen so.

E85, if/when it catches on, easily raises corn prices (I think they have already?)

Should the all-or-mostly electric car catch on, don’t you see our electric prices rising? Certainly not to equivalent of current gas prices, but it will certainly be notably higher… save today’s news articles on “price at the pump” then in a decade or two replace it with “price at the outlet,” swap “gas” for “electric,” etc….

Not to mention, at least in the US and especially the western US, the power companies already can’t keep up with demand; they just can’t/don’t/won’t create enough electricity… blackouts, brownouts, etc will all become more frequent….

Hmmm… at the least the money stays here and we screw ourselves (*laughs* what a nice post to be ruined as I just did
DaveP Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 2:47 am

Hummer McFly, there’s a lot of reasons to drive a truck or SUV, however, safety isn’t one of them.

You are 11% more likely to “dye” if you drive an SUV than if you drive a car. You also are more likely to cause someone in a car to “dye” if you drive an SUV as well. You see, it’s not a zero-sum game. Just because you make someone else worse off doesn’t mean you don’t make yourself even more worse off.
Think about it. All that mass that can do so much damage to someone else’s vehicle does just as much damage to your own vehicle if you hit something that doesn’t crush. Like a tree or cement barrier. Or worse yet, roll over and crush everyone inside. That’s typically why SUVs are more lethal to their occupants.

And SUVs are continuing to become less safe compared to cars, all the time, too:
http://tinyurl.com/5uwfhy
JohnL Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 7:59 am

Have no fear, I see people driving around 2 mode H3 hybrids. I wouldn’t be surprised if you see an eFlex Hummer some day…
Ken Grubb Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 9:55 am

Say goodbye to the era of the Armored Personnel Carrier.
mien green Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 9:58 am

Transform the Hummer into a wide wheel base CUV as a 2-mode hydrid and/or all wheel drive and utilizing a TDI diesel engine, and it’ll be a long-legged model which the public will continue to buy because of its iconic looks. It’s not the testosteronic image that’s outlived its usefulness, just the truck platform it was wedded to.
Tank McFly Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 11:13 am

#118 DaveP

People need to drive slower and buckle up.
nasaman Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

[I've posted this here because this thread is about SUVs --it's also posted on the next 2 topics for exposure in the hope you'll take advantage of my offer to send a dissertation on electric CUVs.]

Last fall, Bob Lutz, Jon Lauckner & apparently many other key people at GM were said to be somewhat surprised to learn that DRAG has a larger effect on EV range than MASS —based on the Volt concept’s wind tunnel testing & analysis. Since that discovery, I’ve often wondered if GM wishes they had instead (or also) decided to promote a somewhat larger vehicle —one that could command a higher MSRP than the compact 4-seat Volt.

Although the market for large SUVs is imploding (down ~15.9% in the past year), sales of CUVs are EXploding (up 30.7% in 2007 compared to 2006). And on top of that growth, the CUV Saturn VUE’s sales were up another 83.5% between April 2007 & April 2008*. As a result, I’ve wondered if it wouldn’t be wise for GM to begin recovering more of the E-REV development cost by producing a Cadillac Provoq concept like that shown as a fuel-cell concept this January —BUT AS AN ENTIRELY-ELECTRIC CROSSOVER/ COMPACT SUV that borrows heavily from the design of either the Plug-in Volt, the Plug-in VUE, or both.

Consequently, I have been vigorously lobbying GM at the decision-making levels since January to produce an electric CUV with an EV-only range of 35-40miles, and have hand-carried or emailed a 2-pg dissertation containing the technical & marketing arguments explaining it to several GM executives. Anyone here who’d like a copy (2 pgs in MS Word) of the exact document I’ve given several members of management at GM is welcome to it. Just email me at nasaman@earthlink.net & ask for the “Plug-in CUV Proposal to GM”.

*Data is from http://www.NADAguides.com
LostPrairie Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

I haven’t read through all of the posts so I don’t know if this has been addressed yet. There are a lot of comments about electric Hummers and electric SUVs and I want to make a point about that.
The energy required ro propel a 5000 LB vehicle is more than the energy reqired to propel a 3000 LB vehicle no matter if it is gasoline, electric, coal, nuclear or bananna peel. There is no way around that. The savings in energy from driving the smaller vehicle could be used to fuel other things like keeping the lights on in a school or powering someone’s electric stove for example. After you have used your vehicle to tow your boat or holiday trailer to the lake 3 times a year you are pushing around all of that extra weight that does nothing for the remaining part of the year. (if this is your primary vehicle that is)
So, why are we driving these things again?
Tagamet Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

LosPt@124
The only point of the SUV and EREV tech was a discussion that with sun and solar, the propulaion wouldn’t be oil dependent therefore more options become available.
Tagamet Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

Duh Sun and solar should read sun and wind power
Tbay Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

I agree that GM should create a pre-order build program for the HUMMER brand similar to Rolls-Royce and Maybach. Because not a huge amount of people (are going to) buy these cars, it would be wise to build a smaller amount of them and allow buyers to “customize” them. HUMMER could then be the only “ultra-luxury-SUV” brand because it would be limited-quantity and user-customized. Perhaps under this new persona, HUMMERs will fare less popular with the suburban/commuting crowd and be aimed more at the targeted off-road enthusiasts (who want premium luxury as well). ALSO, if GM wants to put HUMMER on the ‘green’ wagon (while keeping the HUMMER-ness), they could reduce the vehicle’s overall weight by using different materials, improve aerodynamics with some subtle style changes, and make the vehicle more practical (for example; its big on the outside but it doesn’t reflect on the inside, handling/turning circle is poor, and visibility isn’t that great.) Fix these problems by tweaking some designs and components, and HUMMER is a saved brand. If the rumored diesel engine ever comes along (or even the E85 one), new HUMMERs could easily be able to squeeze more mpgs on the city and highway and they’ll be more
clean and efficient. HUMMER is not a lost cause and certainly is not dead. With proper marketing and a long-term plan, HUMMER can bring a decent amount of profits to GM and cater to consumer’s wants. HUMMER is an Icon and if GM can improve it’s overall efficiency and practicality, it doesn’t have to be a bad one.
Kelub Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 12:13 am

I’m glad to see the Hummer go too, but I’m not fully on board with electric or hybrids. Electricity is still primarily generated by oil burning or coal burning plants, so finite resources are still being drained to charge your electric car.

In addition, the cost of making the new cars in terms of fuel consumption far outweighs what’s being used by many vehicles today. Check out the Dust to Dust report: http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf

Granted it’s from 2005 so numbers have most likely changed slightly, but as of right now, it’s better to get a vehicle that’s manufactured cheaper and will have a longer lifespan than to get a hybrid whose battery could need replacing in 5-7 years and might not be on the road at all in 10-15 years.

All the “my conscience is clear b/c I drive a hybrid” is annoying; I drive a jeep, and while my fuel efficiency isn’t Corolla-esque, knowing that my vehicle will most likely still be on the road in 20+ years (thereby reducing the number of new vehicles required to be built) and is American made fancies my conscience just fine.
Tagamet Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 9:14 am

Hi Kelub,
Our family has had Jeep Cherekees forever, and have two right now. Combined they have over as quarter million miles on them. The point is I’m far from a tree-squeezer.
The article you cite is not only old, a lot of the “facts” have been debunct. Anyway, my point is that even @ 20 mpg that our vehicles get, it’s expensive and we’re using a lot of “unfriendly” countries oil. My major JOY at the thought of driving a Volt is the 40 miles all electric. It costs 80 cents to charge for that 40 miles and if, like 3/4ths of the country I drive less daily, NO GAS. Still able to take trip with it sipping gas, too.
Just a thought.
Be well,
Tag
james Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

We’ve always had wars, but now that all of us are in the same Peak Oil Elevator and checking each other out for the first time, we might have to all try something different. After all, our species instincts favor cooperation, not competition–otherwise we would not have survived this long to even ponder that fact.

Welcome to Spaceship Earth. Nobody’s passenger. Everybody’s crew.

And what is it about “love your enemies” that don’t we understand?

But since this is really about automobiles, can anyone answer the question “What Did Jesus Drive”? Well, in John 8:42 the Galilean said “I came not of my own Accord.”
Tagamet Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

james,
With the new edit button, you could change that cap in “Accord” to the lower case as it’s supposed to be….
Keerthi Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

Hummer being sold to TATA?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126869
Fred X Says:
June 15th, 2008 at 11:21 am

What an idiot. If you mean you as in environMENTAL cases that prevent drilling where we have oil in the USA then yes. But that is not a note of distinction.

High gas prices MOVED the line. While sales maybe down It has not killed it.

The volt is all well and good but we need to drill drill drill for oil anywhere and everywhere the USA has it. That includes your mothers arse if its got lube.
james Says:
June 15th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

I prefer the “green approach” used by the current administration.
Using the latest in technology, the US has been able to continue extracting a harmful toxin from the nation’s soil for years. It involves developing what are called “derricks” to literally “pump” the poisonous black fluid from the ground.
Only historians assessing this trend years from now will be able to determine the true legacy of this activity.

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Who Killed the Hummer?

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