No Mad Rush Yet to Buy GM’s Large Hybrid SUVs
In following GMs development of the Volt, one cant help but notice the automaker has been developing other higher-fuel economy vehicles.
One effort thats hard to miss is the production of 2-mode hybrid versions of the large SUV Chevy Tahoes and GMC Yukons. These massive trucks have remarkably advanced 2-mode hybrid systems that allow electric-only propulsion at both slow and high velocities. For engineering details, read my test drive here. These are the largest production hybrid vehicles available anywhere.
The SUVs were first introduced in late 2007, and get a 50% mpg improvement over the standard models achieving 21/22 city/hwy mpg, extremely impressive for trucks of this size. There is no plug, or lithium-ion battery, and the price tops $50,000.
GM’s initial analysis was for U.S. sales of 10,000 - 15,000 combined units annually.
The first trucks trickled out in February, and March was the first full month of sales. So far they have sold a combined 1000 units in March and April. This is compared to 13,000 combined sales of standard Tahoes and Yukons in April alone.
So with gas and oil prices rising as they are is it too little too late to save trucks, do people still not know about them yet, or is it just a matter of availability?
Only time will tell.
Source (MSNBC)
Popularity: 7%
(3 votes, average: 5 out of 5) 
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75 Responses to “No Mad Rush Yet to Buy GM’s Large Hybrid SUVs”
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May 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Could be the lack of PR, I suppose, but it seems like simple economics to me. Unless you drive enough miles to recover the added cost, what’s the point?
One should not discount the maintenance cost risks of the added complexity when doing the math, either…
May 24th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I am a tech at a dealer, we have already sold 2 Tahoe’s and 1 Malibu since late march, the Malibu was on the lot for about a day and half.
If you haven’t had a chance to drive a 2 mode yet you need to, the General (& Dalmer BMW) have really done there homework of this one and is absolutely seamless.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:33 am
So with gas and oil prices rising as they are is it too little too late to save trucks, do people still not know about them yet, or is it just a matter of availability?
Why don’t they sell?
TAHOE BASE MSRP $35,530
TAHOE HYBIRD BASE MSRP $50,490
AND!!! They give you money to take one of these ‘regular’ dogs of there hands, at the moment $4,500. You know what they give you off the hybrid? Yupe…jack squat.
Side note: 85 percent of SUV buyers, already have one. Check the resale on a big SUV of late…it’s unreal.
No bigger ripoff in the market than hybrid trucks. Your paying for good vibes…nothing else.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:38 am
What I find of interest is that, based on recent NADA data comparing sales for April ‘08 to April ‘07, many lost SUV sales may be resulting in CUV sales….
Following is a complete list of the CUVs showing the greatest increase in consumer interest at NADAguides.com in April 2008 compared to April 2007.
Hyundai Veracruz: 343.9% increase
Mercury Mariner Hybrid: 165.3% increase
Buick Enclave: 125.0% increase
Subaru Forester: 115.1% increase
Porsche Cayenne: 90.4% increase
Saturn VUE: 83.5% increase
Ford Escape Hybrid: 73.8% increase
Chevrolet HHR: 51.5% increase
Toyota Highlander Hybrid: 50.9% increase
Mazda 5: 44.6% increase
Coming off the heels of a 30.7% sales increase in 2007 compared to 2006, the mid-size CUV market remains strong and continues to grow.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:43 am
The data above (my post #4) suggests that the downsized version of the 2 mode system used in the Saturn VUE 2 mode and slated for the VUE Plug-in 2009 may allow the Plug-in VUE to NOT be so adversely affected as the truck-based SUVs.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:46 am
People who can afford $50k for a vehicle aren’t worried about the price of gas.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Good point Nasaman!
The trend to ‘bigger smaller’ is very much alive. I will note the Toyota Highlander as a good (ok, decent) example of large hybrid marketing.
Highlander MSRP $27,500
Higlander Hybrid MSRP $34,200
Highlander Limited MSRP $32,900
Highlander Limited Hyrbid MSRP $40,450
$6,700 base difference in price. It almost makes sense…almost.
Your still probably never going to recoup it, but it’s not stupid crazy. If you drove it decently 5 years you probably break even (I still don’t really get the point). And if you want the ‘jackass mobile’ in hybrid…they will sell that to you as well.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
I agree with the above. It’s too pricey. A $15,000 premium? No thanks.
When the Vue comes out, I might take a look at it, depending on it’s economy ratings. I’ve already thought about a Prius, if I could find a used one when the 09s come out.
I’d have to be able to get some benefit, since my current daily driver is averaging 33-35mpg for my commuting. Hard to beat that!
May 24th, 2008 at 10:35 am
On the one hand, those who can afford an SUV can afford the gasoline to drive them, so gas prices won’t be the impetus for those buyers to acquire them. I also doubt the premium price for the hybrid is preventing wealthy buyers from selecting them over less efficient models.
Perhaps there still exists the perception that a hybrid lacks the power / comfort that market desires. GM keeps advertising the green aspect of the vehicles, but I recommend they emphasize the power / comfort of those vehicles, as well.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Most dealers one have one or two if they are lucky. When I go looking for cars or trucksthe dealer never orders them the way I want them. It is not a surprise that they have not sold many, they have not made many either.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:57 am
you cant compar price of a base tahoe and a base tahoe hybrid. The hybris already comes loded standerd and the only options avaliblae are sunroof and rear dvd player. if you want to compair price the hybrid would have around the same optons as a LT3 or even a LTZ
trim
May 24th, 2008 at 10:58 am
I saw the way GM’s dual mode Hybrid system for the Tahoe type vehicles works at last year’s SEMA show here in LasVegas. A GM engineer had a cut away model of it in their exhibit. Bassicly they had streached out a 4L80E transmission and added 2 electric motors bettween the planetaries for the hardware part.
I was impressed with the layout, reports on the operation are very favorable. It looked like a lot of work to repair. I was unimpressed with the belt drive hybrid design, adding an electric motor where the alternator was with a big ribbed serpentine belt on it, the engineer explaining it was very proud of his design for a belt tensioner that worked both ways. Looked like a crude way to build a hybrid.
#6 ditto
May 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am
I think there is a tendancy to forget WHY people buy large SUVs…because they MUST.
Only my Suburban with the “extra” third row of seats will tow my boat to the lake with my family of six. Even a Tahoe won’t fit my family! A mid-size SUV is like a Volkwagon Bug to us. A larger mini-van and/or a full size Van or Suburban are the only production vehicles that exist that will accomodate a family of five or more, and a minivan won’t tow squat.
SO…Here’s the problem as I see it:
Those who NEED a large SUV still don’t have a Hybrid option…The last time I checked the Tahoe doesn’t seat any more people than a Camry…5. Those who merely WANT a large SUV don’t care about gas $ or the environment anyway so there not shell out $15,000.00 extra for a hybrid.
Duh!
May 24th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Fully agree - price differential. As they unload the gas guzzlers at huge losses, in enough cases at half the hybrid price (counting the used market), than why would people buy. It’s simply another engine choice at this stage. When the new supply (substantial production cuts) and demand equations are remetered in 5 years or more, than the hybrid will flourish. Not today though.
As a side note, they’re now predicting $5.00 - $8.00 a gallon gas within a few years only makes - “dump the gas version” intensify this round of pricing point recomputations. Give it all time, the hybrid is here to stay.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I have been following the development of the 2009 Saturn Vue 2 mode hybrid pretty closely. I’m thinking about buying one, but have been unable to get a good idea of what the MSRP will be. If the premium for the Vue 2 mode is the same as for the Tahoe 2 mode ($15K), it will cost around $36K, which is too much when compared to its competitors (Ford Escape Hybrid, etc.)
The Saturn Vue 2 mode is due out in the 4th quarter of this year, so pricing should be available this summer.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Another reason for the slow sales is the production numbers. I suspect GM doesn’t have rafts of hybrids sitting in a lot somewhere waiting to be sold. I know Ford is selling hybrid Escapes as fast as they build them. My dealer says he might be able to get one if it was ordered but other than that….nothing.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:15 am
#11 Li
Thats the EXACTLY problem I was trying to get at…GM gives you no option to just get the hybrid (which if you are in the mind of someone thinking ‘cost saving’ is the priority).
It’s like their ‘packages’ Oh, you want ‘X’ feature…well it only comes in the ‘XYZ’ package.
Example: I need a hatch back ‘ute for my business my Civic is getting old. So I went to GM to get a new Vibe (I get the GM discount, so another reason I always have GM products,lol).
Big ‘ole sticker says $15,995. I’ll take one, just throw in A/C. Then the salesman tells me, the $15,995 Vibe is ‘as is’…no options available to add on. I have to get the $18,995 one. +A/C, lol. (Note: this is in Canada…they bump the starting price down to appear similar to US…and the only way to get it, is if you like shifting, hot afternoons, stylish hubcaps and winding your own windows…welcome to the 70s.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Why don’t they sell?
TAHOE BASE MSRP $35,530
TAHOE HYBIRD BASE MSRP $50,490
Apples and oranges. The base hybrid has a larger engine, leather upholstery, 3rd row seating, bigger wheels, etc., etc. Adjust for this and the hybrid premium is about $8000. At 21.5 mpg vs. 17 combined cycle and $4/gallon gas the hybrid saves 5 cents per mile. You make up the $8000 in 160k miles, roughly the life of the vehicle. If gas prices go up you do better. The hybrid premium is high but not ridiculous as your numbers misleadingly indicate.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Statik and Li-Ion
Too true. Same for Camry hybrid and others. This has been swimming upstream for hybrids. Everybody wants to compare them and most often pick a base, lowest price model to do it with. The price diffferential is used as the hybrid incremental cost. The auto manufacturers should always have a base hybrid model available and make sure there is a comparably powered non-hybrid or don’t offer a lower power version. This is one of the reasons why the Prius has done so well. Toyota didn’t shoot themselves in the foot by giving “pundits” a poor frame of reference.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:31 am
GM read the market wrong again. What else is new? Get cars into the marketplace that equal or better the competition or die. Next case.
Regular is $4.15/gal at the gas station across the street this morning.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:32 am
GM will keep the experiment going, but it seems they have already concluded that plug-in hybrids are the way to go, and are betting the farm on the Volt, which I think will end up falling into the cross-over class of vehicles.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:34 am
15 Jim F….
I’ve also been following the VUE 2 Mode closely, but primarily because the VUE Plug-in due a year later is based on it. In fact, I’ve been communicating technical suggestions in person to Bob Lutz, and via fax, email, Saturn’s blog, etc to Saturn’s GM & the VUE 2 Mode chief engineer since this January. This has all been regarding offering an option for the Plug-in VUE that gets >35 miles in EV-only mode at hwy speeds (feasible because they have two 74HP —148HP total— electric motors to work with, by using a battery derived from the Volt’s battery design).
I’m therefore waiting for the Plug-in VUE (big/powerful enough to tow my boat, haul my family & lots of stuff around, take long trips AND TRAVEL UP 35 MI W/O USING A DROP OF GAS!) Not as sexy as a Volt, but it does it ALL, so I’d be willing to pay more for it and park it alongside my Volt.
So I’d encourage you to wait for the VUE Plug-in. Oh, and as to MSRPs? I have NO inside info, but I believe Saturn MUST price these CUVs to the market, which to me suggests little more than $30K for the base 2 Mode or $35K for the base Plug-in. We’ll see.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Many people are sheep. They follow the herd toward the current trend. Very few people that were buying Tahoes and Expeditions like crazy three years ago actually needed a vehicle that big, just the trend was towards bigger is better. Reasons given at the time were, “I have room for my kids and the dog”, “I could tow a boat” and most significant “I feel safe in this truck.” The trend now is towards smaller because only gas mileage and our “carbon footprint” matters at the moment and suddenly those other reasons are out the window. These folks are now headed toward crossovers and sedans and their not even considering a vehicle of this size.
Some people do need a truck that big, but for them, $15k premium and the risk involved with new technology is enough for these buyers to just go conventional. If GM doesn’t want to take a complete bath on these vehicles, they need to lower the price at least $10,000 and forget about profit so that they can recoup at least some of their R&D investments. Toyota has shown that the successful way to be in the hybrid business is to sell at a loss in the beginning. GM has a hard time with this because they are publicly traded in America and you can’t have too many projects running at a loss or they dump you. Also they just don’t have enough other profitable endeavors to compensate.
It’s too bad. Their 2-Mode is really very impressive and many Americans would love to have a hybrid Tahoe, they just can’t afford it.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Sorry about the run on paragraph. Every since the spell check got turned on, I can’t figure out how to do proper paragraphs. I put spaces in and when I submitted, they all got taken out.??
May 24th, 2008 at 11:43 am
I agree with #13 Eric E. People buy the ultra large trucks to tow boats, horse trailers, and fifth-wheel RV’s. These people tend to be older, more conservative, and far less likely to jump into new, untested technology. As my father would say, “It just one more thing that can go wrong, like power windows and seats”.
As for me, I am 100% Volt. 22 MPG? I get that mileage with my 6 cylinder Honda minivan. Big deal. Of course, I don’t have anything I need to tow. I just have to wait until 2010 while I watch gas prices go up, up, up.
Imagine the future of the truck. Once Volt technology is established and becomes trustworthy for most people, all GM has to do is scale up the technology for large trucks. Look how much weight diesel locomotives can move with electric motors. Most trucks are asked to move a tiny fraction of that weight, at most. Battery tech will move on and become lighter, less expensive, and much more competative.
It will not be easy to change the hearts and minds of older owners of large trucks, who has never heard of an ICE, though they use one every day. Even $8.00 a gallon gas may not change their habits. But many truck owners will switch, when they see their friends laughing every time gas prices go up, as they get into their GM Volt to get groceries.
If GM can make America’s dream happen, the future is bright. If not, I don’t even want to think about what happens if GM fails. I don’t want to learn how to ride a horse. Ask Christopher Reeve how much fun that is… oh wait, you can’t.
I also want to pre-order the Volt-based riding mower, please. lol
May 24th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I don’t think the people buying the large SUV’s and trucks have really been into the fuel economy crowd.
Another point - 22mpg still isn’t any good.
Good for it’s size? Maybe - but good? No.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Follow-up to NASAMAN’s comments.
I believe he and I feel similarly from prior posts. There are those who need the incredible pulling power of the Tahoe’s and Yukon’s and their hybrid versions are a wonderful engineering feat.
Then there are a lot of people (myself included currently driving a hybrid Highlander) who don’t, but like the all wheel drive, look and extra space of a CUV. The hybrid Tahoe’s and Yukon’s are overkill for us. I know GM is working on the Plug-in Vue, but I think they are missing the boat if they are not planning on producing an e-flex CUV in the not to distant future before the competition beats them to it. They already have the Cadillac Provoq concept, replace the fuel cell with the gas/E-85 generator (the same as the Volt) and they get two vehicles appealing to a wider audience to spread the development cost of e-flex over.
On MSNBC this morning, there was an analyst espousing the “Peak Oil Theory” and gas at $15/gallon in a matter of months or a few years (I personally don’t buy in to that price level - but I think it is clear that the price of gas is not likely to be substantially lower in price a few years from now). Considering the development time to put a vehicle in production, I hope GM has a production e-flex CUV right behind the Volt.
In my family (living in Michigan - where SUV’s are everywhere), we would like to be the first to sign-up for a Volt AND an e-flex CUV.
Personally, I am tired of my dollars going to the mid-east and regardless if gas is $4.00 per gallon or $15.00 per gallon I would rather send the money to GM and the local utility. My Highlander gets 28 mpg (actual), I want my next CUV to get 40+. I believe if GM can deliver a Volt and an e-flex CUV in the near future they may eventually start taking back some market share for a change.
I know everyone at GM is working hard (we are here to support your efforts and buy quality products from you), but I think you need to expand the e-flex platform to include an all wheel drive CUV ASAP and you will have tremendous market penetration.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
In the past, circa 1973, when demand exceeded availability, it was not that the price went to $15 per gallon, it was that you could not get it at any price. Many people depend on there car to get to work, and there is no alternative, not car pooling, not mass transit. So they will pay 30 or more dollars to get to a job that pays 60 or more dollars a day. That is the cold calc.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
GM needs to stop wasting time, money and resources promoting and making old technology. They need to discontinue production of non-hybrid vehicles where a hybrid exist or is in the pipeline. They need to take a lesson from other industries. Does Microsoft still make, sell and promote Windows 98? Does Sony still make and sell VHS video cameras? No they don’t! It’s a waste of company’s resources to continue to spend money on old technology. At some point they need to cut the chains that ties them to old tech and fully embrace new tech. That’s when GM will fly; the public will see their commitment isn’t temporary and they aren’t flapping back and forth like a cheap politician.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
A little off topic, but we seem to equate SUV drivers of the past with wealthy…I’m just not sure how we conclude this.
If anything, (at least from my own friends who drive them) I think of them mostly as middle class with a penchant for over-indulging/over-spending. I know this isn’t true of all large SUV owners, but I would wager it is a good bulk of them. I think maybe the sales reflect it too. Clearly it’s true a ‘wealthy’ person is unaffected by paying $6,000 a year in gas over $4,000.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I now pay $1500 per year for gas compared to $4500 in my Jeep Cherokee. I love my Honda insight and it will pay for itself by the time my VOLT is delivered. My VOLT will pay for itself compared to my Insight but it will takes it a little longer. But keep in mind OSAMA (bin laden) not the presidential candidate hates both these cars.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
GM’s over-supply problem was foreseeable years ago. Americans have made a conscious shift to demanding electric cars (and fuel efficient cars), ever since 9/11–away from large vehicles. I know because I’m one of them. The “if you build it, they will buy it” mantra has got to end before GM bleeds to death. Yet once again GM overestimates its units. STOP BUILDING THESE THINGS.
Perhaps GM should take a clue from Fisker, Tesla, AMP, Smart, and numerous other start-ups…and take RESERVATIONS. Much easier to determine supply when they know exactly how many to build.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Let’s wait for these hybrid SUV’s to been seen more on the roads - that’s the best advertizing. I expect the mix to increase for the hybrids, but you need to give it more than a mere two months.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
It is the price premium and the image problem of the Yukon. Take note, because the price premium of the Volt over the competitor’s hybrids will be about as much. Also, the cost savings of the Volt over the competitor’s car hybrids will never come close to comparing with the cost savings of the hybrid yukon over a regular yukon. 12 City AWD vs 20 city AWD is a 67% improvement. If you drive 12,000 miles/year and gas is $5/gallon, you save $2,000 per year with the hybrid yukon. You will never save anything close to that much with the Volt over the Honda/Toyota hyrbids of similar sizes. The Volt won’t have the image problem that the yukon has, but it makes much less sense financially.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Another poorly researched article from MSNBC. The reason the Tahoe/Yukon aren’t selling is they aren’t available due to the axle strike. If the author had gone to a dealership he would have found out the vehicles are not being produced. I have had an order in since January and still no Tahoe. The Tahoes produced before the strike are selling for $5,000 over MSRP in Denver.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
31. TED… please back up that statement… how far do you drive per day? What MPG are you currently seeing with your Insight?
Here are my quick guesses. You are paying $3.5/gallon, which works out to ~428.5 gallons/year. At 50 MPG, that is 21,420 miles/year. That works out to ~58.7 miles/day. With the Volt Assuming 40 miles/day electric (30 miles is probably more reasonable, but I will give the Volt the benefit of the doubt) that is ~18.7 miles/day on gas @ 50MPG and $0.8/day of elec for a total of ~$770/year. That is a cost savings of $730/year over the insight.
What is it going to cost you to get into the Volt? Because I doubt that it would ever actually pay for itself at that rate. Maybe at $10/gallon… then you would be saving ~2,600/year. That would save you ~26,000 over the reasonable life-expectancy of the volt. Of course you would have been about have bought an sub $20,000 hybrid instead so you would still be upside down.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
People just can’t afford a 50K dollar car especially with the price of gas compounding that cost. Some of it is undoubtable supply/options playing a part.
I hope GM learns from this and applies it to the volt. Enough numbers to allow people to get the car options that they want and at a cost that will sell. Get greedy and ask for another 8K might cost a whole lot more than it makes.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Whoops… I posted that last one a bit too soon. @$10/gallon and assuming that electricity doesn’t go up (unlikely) and ignoring financing costs, $40,000 for a volt-$26,000 in cost savings for fuel/elec is 14,000, and that would actually be less than a sub $20K hybrid. Absolute best (and unreasonable) case for the Volt it does pay off.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Eric E #13
I agree. Most people who buy a large SUV like my brother in-law, want the extra power of the large engine to tow their boat or what have you. The idea of paying a $15K premium for a hybrid that will net a few more mpg isn’t a consideration for most buying this type of vehicle.
If you were considering a large SUV as a pure people mover, you can get an GMC Acadia or any of the other lambda platform CUVs which l seat as many and have the interior room of a Suburban, but get 24mpg on the highway. I suspect that most who don’t have a boat to tow are taking this route.
I’m thinking that a large CUV would find a better audience as a 2 mode hybrid than any boat tower would.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
GM has said for several years the there is more fuel to be saved by taking an SUV or light truck from 15 mpg to 25 mpg than there is by taking a small car from 30 mpg to 45 mpg (all round figures for the sake of argument). Even if we grant that this is so, it totally misses the point of the hybrid movement.
Many car purchases are emotional, and so it largely is with hybrids. It’s about best mileage bragging rights, making a statement (fashion or not) about being environmentally aware, creating minimum air pollution, and/or doing one’s bit to minimize the disasters now being visited upon us by our dependence on foreign oil, just to name a few.
Thus, Toyota sells every Prius it can make, and hybrid Tahoes sell like cold cakes, with apologies to the late, great Jim Healy.
Whether GM did this out of a desperate hope of saving its treasured SUV/truck profit center, or out of some sort on Machiavellian “greenwashing” scheme, or for what other reason, I have no idea. I am saying that it has been an insult to my intelligence since the beginning, and a tragic diversion of resources away from the real existential issue, finding an effective way to compete with Toyota, Honda, et al.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
#39 Noel,
By your writing style, I can easily tell that you have no intelligence to insult. GM’s decision is offer its top selling vehicles with optional hybrid upgrades was a good place to start, as we’ve seen Tesla Motors and Fisker Automotive succeeded in signing up hundreds or thousands of potential buyers at the premium end of the market. Selling 1,000 units in the first two months is a rate that is half its annual goal, and I’ve read many reports that dealers can’t keep the hybrids on the lot, so it’s far more about supply than demand. It also shows that GM can sell these upgrades at a profit, which is always the smart way to do things.
As I stated previously, when those hybrid SUV’s drive around for awhile, that is the best advertizing possible, and people will start to notice.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
When I drive to work (in my 92 Subaru Wagon with 230k miles that still averages 29 mpg) the last three miles is a 55 mph four lane divided highway. I am usually traveling at slightly over 60 mph and every morning ten to 15 large SUVs blast past me like I was standing still. I estimate they are traveling at 80+ mph. These people don’t make any more money than I do, but are more than willing to pay for the priviledge of traveling at high speed in their tanks. Rarely is there more than one person in the vehicle. I do not believe these people will be moving to a hybrid anytime soon. I do not buy into most SUV owners “needing” their large vehicle rather I believe that is the exception.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
The business aspect is always present. It’s important to understand once again, that these companies are in business to make money.
GM has long been criticized as the antichrist of the green car movement and the purveyor of huge SUVs. Truth be told that SUVs have sold extremely well for the past decade or so, and if you don’t believe it, open your eyes next time you’re in traffic. They are also very profitable, much more so than selling Cobalts.
The stated purpose of the large SUV 2-mode hybrids is that you enjoy all the benefits these large vehicles have to offer, and get city mileage on par with a Camry or Accord. Whether or not they’ll ever sell in volume is anyone’s guess, but that’s the plan.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Well, I can understand the towing part. But there is no way every large SUV driver has a boat. The majority of them are either rap stars who use it as proof of their endowment, posers who want you to see all of the money that you do not have, or soccer moms weighing 94 lbs. that some overpaid car salesman has convinced that there is inherent safety in 9200 lbs of metal. No disrespect to GM but I think that a hybrid SUV is kind of an oxymoron, like a religious prostitute. I do not understand how anyone can quantify “but it gets 21 mpg highway. That’s good!” Compared to what? A Peterbuilt? Give me a break. Anyone guy that has a wife, five kids and a boat probably doesn’t give enough of a crap about an extra 4-5 mpg to spend anything extra for a hybrid. Hasn’t the Volt taught us anything? Haven’t sports cars taught us anything? Weight and wind resistance are the enemy. Take a 9200 lb. SUV, add a 200 lb driver, his 100 lb wife, his 5 kids totaling 650 lbs, a 50 lb dog, 125 lbs of crap and you have 10,325 (5+ tons of car and people) plus the weight of the boat. GM? Make more CUV’s-people? get real.
May 24th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
What I can’t understand, Is for that once or twice a year trip with a large family and boat. People need to have a large SUV all year ?
Thats like me driving a 5T truck (Just in case I need hardware supplies delivered).
This is insane. Either take two cars / one van or pre- Hire an SUV for that special occassion.
No wonder OPEC have got the the west by the short and curlys.
People have for to start thinking and not follow th heard or the BS Hollywood pumps out.
PS most films have manufactures sponser cars in film & No your typical suburban family doesn’t need a MASSIVE vehicle to drive to work . LOL
May 24th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Some say “sell the Tahoe for a lost”. Others say “sell it for no profit”. I say, GM is in business to make money.
I’ve driven the Tahoe hybrid and it is quite a piece of technology. Most people don’t know what it’s all about. GM is doing a lousy job in advertising and sure could use some help in doing so.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
GM initiated these big cars while they were selling well. The resent big shift away from them is at most 1 year old and probably less than that.
What these trends in lack of suv sales and the lack of the hybrid tahoe sales tells me is that the shift BEFORE 2008 was for enviromental reasons and now the big shift is for finacial reasons.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Sounds a little like those that couldn’t afford a nice SUV are venting.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
GM needs to look into producing Bi-Fuel Natural Gas trucks and vans again. CNG is .80 to $2.00 per gal equivalant. With home refueling units people who need trucks could aford to drive them.
GM could even convert its current inventory.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
The integrated electric motors in the tranny looks like a maintenance nightmare. That has to drive the cost of the tranny up to the point where it would be cheaper to replace the car than the transmission! I don’t think I would ever buy a car with one of these. Too complicated!!! Give me a power source and an electric motor, as simple as possible!!!
May 24th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Honestly people, can’t we stick to civilly discussing all things Volt without getting all stupid political?
#41 Jason M. Hendler
I think Noel’s writing style demonstrates intelligence. Your writing style could use work. A paragraph typically consists of a unifying main point, thought, or idea accompanied by supporting details. You opened with an intelligence assessment based on writing style, then went in a completely different direction. I think that a writing professor would probably give Noel higher style points than you.
#31 TED in Fort Myers
Speaking of intelligence, your “Osama/Obama” linkage is classic, low-brow stuff. You must crack people up over at rushlimbaugh.com.
#48Vincent
Sounds like you think everybody wants an SUV. Perhaps that is what you’ve gleaned from your world. You should get out more.
May 24th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Let’s see, Toymota makes the Land Cruiser (13/17 city/hwy), Nissan makes the Armada (12/17 city/hwy), and Audi builds the Q7 (12/17 city/hwy). Yet GM designs a full size hybrid SUV that gets 20/20, and some people can do nothing but bitch!
Face reality folks, SUV’s are great vehicles. They have a quiet and confortable ride, and carry up to 8 people in most versions today (including the Tahoe). If its snows 6″ or more, just hit the switch and you are in 4WD. Use them to pickup lumber, hardware, furniture, groceries, etc. with plenty of room and GVW to spare. Tow a boat, camper, utility trailer, or log splitter with ease (note, I save more oil by burning wood than most people will ever save by purchasing a small hybrid).
GM’s sins are not that they build SUV’s, its just that they make them so much better and more affordable than everyone else, so you see them everywhere.
Yet with all the capablity and utility you get from these vehicles, they have one major problem, they use a lot of fuel. GM has taken the first step to improve this situation, and I expect more improvement in the future.
Expect future generations of the Tahoe/Yukon to get better. Li-Ion vs. NiMH, direct gasoline injection, smaller engines, improved aero, etc. Perhaps even some plug-in capability.
Although some people talk of moving into the future with technology, such as with the Volt, they seem to think SUV’s should be eliminated (backwards thinking). The answer is, if you don’t like them, don’t drive them. But for many millions of families in this country, SUV’s will continue to be THE family vehicle, and GM’s ability to improve their economy will be welcomed by many.
I think we need to give these large hybrids a little more time before we are so quick to judge their overall appeal.
May 24th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Hi ThombDbhomb,
Actually what I said is 100% clear.
Just as it reads and exactly how it was meant.
Quite the extrapolation there my friend. Have a fantastic evening.
May 24th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
#52. Precisely
May 24th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
#52 BillR
I completely agree…GM builts the best large SUV, hands down. This is truely GM’s niche…and they do it to perfection. Unfortunately it is currently a imploding market.
To me, the hybrid angle is still pretty nonsensical at this point, maybe when the tech allows for ‘hybrid-type’ mileage at a reasonable premium the market will understand/adopt it in a greater volume.
I just don’t think MPG is on most people’s minds when they go to buy a tricked out Escalade or loaded Tahoe/Yukon.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
GM should make all their large vehicles hybrids so that the fuel savings start now - for all.
I’ve got to laugh……
The reality is just like Open Season where the forest creatures looking at a large SUV - how may humas does this carry ?
“Oh usually …. Just One”.
Same in Australia except here mothers have them for their school kids in the city ?
Little do they know, should they be in a roll over, in most models they will be worse off due to our safety laws.
PS this bigger and better safety argument is great, how to protect your kids the wife get a Mack Truck ?
The issue is the real users of SUV type of vehicles are farmers and rural people & can’t afford them so they buy a 2 wd ute or a Toyo / Nissan product, while all City crowd with small weeners have the Large SUV 4Wd’s.
It’s a strange world and the rising oil price will bring a heavy reality check to us all…..
May 24th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Well after reading all these post it is quite apparent that a fair number of people think big suv’s are evil and that people that drive them or ignorant jerks that they are happy to see suffer.
Funny thing is the electrification of the automobile specifically the e-flex that you so love is going to make the SUV feasible again. How ironic.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
#53 Vincent
I agree that what you said is 100% clear. I didn’t dispute that.
Your, “Sounds a little like those that couldn’t afford a nice SUV are venting” seems more extrapolatory than my, “Sounds like you think everybody wants an SUV.”
Love ya buddy!
May 24th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
#57 omegaman66
Let me start by saying I don’t hold an extreme opinion about SUV drivers. I wish they didn’t succumb to the “bigger is better” mentality. But, I understand the allure. Even electrified, SUVs will still require more energy, be harder to park, clog roads more, and result in more injuries and fatalities (high CG).
May 24th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
“Face reality folks, SUV’s are great vehicles. They have a quiet and confortable ride, and carry up to 8 people in most versions today (including the Tahoe). If its snows 6″ or more, just hit the switch and you are in 4WD.”
Sure. Except I’ve driven in a lot of very bad stuff (Maine, nor’easters) with a variety of RWD and FWD vehicles and gotten through just fine. If the snow is so bad you shouldn’t be out in a FWD or RWD vehicle, you should stay home.
The principal purpose of AWD and 4WD is to make today’s suburban warriors think they’re ready for anything if they have it. News bulletin for you: you’re not.
GM made a big mistake with these vehicles. The people that can really afford $55K for an SUV have no particular motivation to buy a hybrid. They don’t particularly care about the environment and they can likely afford the fuel.
If this was a $5K or maybe a $8K option on a base vehicle, people who are price-sensitive would be likely to consider it.
However, as things work out, buyers can switch to a CUV and lose very little in terms of capacity or tow capability (the Tahoe hybrid is limited to 6K lbs or so - a Lambda does 5K). And they get the improved fuel economy for less money overall.
One also has to wonder at the marketing genius of offering a Chevy hybrid for $13K more than a Lexus hybrid. While the Tahoe might be a somewhat more capable vehicle, people who really don’t need all its capabilities (probably a large majority of the buyers, in fact) are bound to look at this price and realize that they could have a Lexus for less. Or a Highlander for a lot less.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:25 am
That is right Charlie H. most people that have SUV’s want and SUV but don’t need an SUV and that huge hunk of the former SUV market is looking elsewhere for new vehicles.
May 25th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Not that we didn’t already know this, but SUVs are going to continue to take a hit. Interesting article here, all known already but nonetheless:
http://tinyurl.com/4maput
Just another reminder that GM never needed time consuming “market studies” to assess the potential for the Volt/E-flex. Common sense rules the roost on this one, but it’ll be the change in policy and B.O.D. stodginess that will forever transform the company IMHO the way the 747 and its development forever changed Boeing.
Sometimes you’ve just got to believe in something, cut through the B.S. and get it done. That is EXACTLY what this Mgmt. team has done at GM. Financials are not great right now at GM but you’ve got to pay the price to pull out of a losing strategy, recoup, re-invent your business strategy and move forward. There will be more rocks in the road ahead, but I’m predicting ultimate victory.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Jason M Handler, #9 says, “On the one hand, those who can afford an SUV can afford the gasoline to drive them, so gas prices won’t be the impetus for those buyers to acquire them. ”
I’m not so sure. I live in New England. The snowy icy roads can be miserable. The SUV or AWD is required, especially in upper New England. Required, that is, if one needs to drive in very inclement weather. I for can afford one, but won’t. They seem to me to be a waste of money. Of course, I don’t tow anything, dislike driving automatics, and really hate paying for gas.
You also say, “Perhaps there still exists the perception that a hybrid lacks the power / comfort that market desires.”
I wonder if it is the other way around. Does the general public know that hybrids use less gas? Does the general public realize the premium just isn’t worth it? I for one have to say that a 50% increase in MPG doesn’t impress me. 50% of zero is still zero.
I’m being a bit sarcastic but you get my point. The 2008 Chevy Tahoe gets a whopping 14 in the city. A 50% increase gets what….21 in the city? I just don’t think that premium is worth that. But then again, we pay for satellite radio when we can get radio for free. So who am I to guess what the American public will spend money on?
May 25th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I’m not sure the hybrid savings are easy to calculate. My full sized Avalanche, (same chassis as a suburban) gets 21-22 mpg on the highway when you drive it gently and let it get into V4 mode as much as possible.
Now the hybrid probably isn’t going to be able to improve on that because mostly hybrids increase their efficiency in the city due to regenerative braking and batteries that were charged during highway cruise.
So if most of your miles are on the highway the 2 mode hybrid is a waste of money.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I work at a Southern California Chevy Dealer and we get inquiries about the Tahoe Hybrid almost every day. The conversation ends when they hear the price: Over $49,000.00 because the vehicle is loaded down with expensive options the same as the Tahoe LTZ’s.
What Chevy should be doing is placing the Hybrid System in a stripped down base model and then measure the sales response. From the conversations I’ve had with customers, they want one, it is just too much money.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:31 am
22mpg urban in a big hog like a Tahoe is pretty good. But most Tahoe buyers are rural or suburban, so it means squat to them. The few people with big families and towing needs tend not to live in congested cities. I am an exception. What we do is drive a minivan with the family in the city, I commute out of my city into a suburb in a Nissan Versa, and we tow with an old truck that we store with out trailer and boat.
This allows Dad to take off early to set up the trailer and boat.
You can’t have everything.
Now, an 8-passenger people hauler, and I don’t mean a Highlander, something that can take two big teenage boys, their sisters and a baby brother, plus dogs and a small cargo trailer, and I’ll buy it. Put electric motors on all four wheels to make it AWD. Add a nice big electric motor. Lots of pulling torque. And beef up the body so it can tow.
We have a Toyota Sienna. Beat that, and make it tow, and you win.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:58 am
I drive a Chevy Colorado crew cab because I need a pickup truck that works like a truck (towing/hauling) but also works like a passenger car (seats 5/reasonable fuel economy/fits in my garage). I cannot afford to buy a truck for the towing/hauling AND a car for the seating/fuel economy. Therefore I have had to compromise.
I have given my friend’s dealership a down payment on the first Volt he can get his hands on. However, if GM made a Colorado-sized E-FLEX pickup truck that could do everything my Colorado does, but better, then I’d buy it in a heartbeat.
So in 2010 I hope to own a Chevy Volt for my commuting/passenger car needs and keep my Colorado running for my towing/hauling needs until it falls apart.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Vincent # 48,
I’ve driven SUVs, and I don’t particularly like them. They take extra care to park, and don’t provide any benefits that I wouldn’t get out of a much-cheaper Subaru Impreza.
In fact, the Subaru Impreza wagon came on my radar because I first looked at a Ford Escape Hybrid. But the Escape is ugly (IMHO, and I’m the potential-buyer in this scenario) — and the Impreza can tow more (1700lbs) and costs about $12k less when reasonably outfitted.
I can see situations where big SUVs would be appropriate — but I’ll wait until I’m faced with one of those before I consider one. I’ve driven a number of other large vehicles when traveling for work and, while I’m one of the more attentive drivers in any traveling-group, the the vehicle are surprisingly nimble, I just don’t see why I’d go to all of the extra effort of driving a large vehicle safely.
So a big vehicle provides no extra benefit for me, so the only way I’d consider one is if they were cheaper than my current benchmark vehicles: the Subaru Impreza wagon, and the Toyota Prius.
Anyway, good luck with your trolling!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Strange, I know someone who is looking for a large vehicle. They would like a Tahoe hybrid. No one in the region has one.
I think the low sales is due to high unavailability. You have to realized there are three types of SUV drivers.
1. Necessities (these fall into two sub-groups)
a. Self-employed who need a work horse vehicle, tow the trailer, etc. And they have one of the following: truck, van or SUV.
b. Large families, these have either a mini-van or SUV.
2. The Means - this category has the occasional use needs but not really the necessity. But they have the means to make up for the fact that the SUV might not be the optimum efficiency purchase. They find the conveniences worthwhile. This group will often buy a high end model.
3. The PIMPS - this category get it for a statement. They get the top of the line models with extra over-sized tires. And add a ton of 3rd party aftermarket accessories. Money is the last issue. But they will quickly buy a hybrid because it’s more bragging rights.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
#51 ThombDbhomb:
Thanks!
#62 Grizzly:
Man, I sure hope so!
May 28th, 2008 at 10:00 am
I suggest that the extra options on the hybrid trucks don’t raise the price very much. I think they are added to soften the blow of the hybrid price premium. Options are high margin items. GM can afford to throw them in to sweeten the deal.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Heh, c’mon. If it weren’t for the Tahoe hybrid, Sean Hannity wouldn’t be able to self-aggrandize on hybrids.
I daresay the problem is $50K and 20 MPG. For $50K, I’d replace my SW2 with a Prius and my Relay with an Escape Hybrid. I’d get better mileage, for both me and the wife.
May 28th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I had to Google “Sean Hannity”.
If you *need* the big truck you can always use 1/3 better mileage.
The police where I live drive the Tahoe now that the Crown Victoria is no longer available. They get about the same gas mileage, given that police cruisers spend a *lot* of time idling.
I don’t know if the Tahoes are hybrids. The city certainly has jumped on the green bandwagon lately. Hybrids might even be cost-effective.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:41 pm
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June 1st, 2008 at 3:26 am
In my case the price isn’t the problem. It’s not a huge jump from similarly equipped Tahoe. The problem is I need a Suburban as the Tahoe just isn’t big enough for the whole family and all our gear (strollers, bikes etc). If they could sell me one of those we’d have already traded in our 2001 Suburban. I’m fan of vehicles for a purpose. I want a Volt to commute in even though it’s only 13 miles each way. I’ve got a total of 4 cars for various purposes and for family hauling I need the space of a Suburban.