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	<title>Comments on: Honda Still Hasn&#8217;t Plugged in Yet</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:07:32 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-43407</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-43407</guid>
		<description>GM, Honda &amp; Toyota all know that with plug-ins,  the money now generated by replacement parts along with maintenance money will be virtually eliminated.  Worse, the *%^!  plug-ins will take forever to wear out.  If they build the lost revenue into the cost of a plug-in, it is possible that they will be unable to sell at a price most customers would be willing to pay.  None of the car manufacturers make much on their smallest models now.  They all want to continue to sell behemoths as they bring in the largest profit margins, not because they are stupid.  Finally, research indicates gas-hogs are actually LESS safe in accidents than the average car.  Funny, the car manufacturers aren&#039;t advertising this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GM, Honda &amp; Toyota all know that with plug-ins,  the money now generated by replacement parts along with maintenance money will be virtually eliminated.  Worse, the *%^!  plug-ins will take forever to wear out.  If they build the lost revenue into the cost of a plug-in, it is possible that they will be unable to sell at a price most customers would be willing to pay.  None of the car manufacturers make much on their smallest models now.  They all want to continue to sell behemoths as they bring in the largest profit margins, not because they are stupid.  Finally, research indicates gas-hogs are actually LESS safe in accidents than the average car.  Funny, the car manufacturers aren&#8217;t advertising this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jes</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-42215</link>
		<dc:creator>Jes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 04:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-42215</guid>
		<description>I am on the pre-order for this book.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/Seth-Leitman/e/9780071543736/?itm=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/Seth-Leitman/e/9780071543736/?itm=2&lt;/a&gt;

I travel intercity to 5 appointments a day.  Today is the very 1st time I went past 100 miles, but go over 40 every day. If Tesla or some company does not make an all-electric mid-sized car (as I&#039;m over 6 ft &amp; 250 lbs) that reaches 150 miles to the charge soon, I will be building my own near maintenance free all electric car.  Leave the expense of oil canges, radiater flushes, exaust maintenance, fuel injection cleaning, transmision flushes, etc. out!!!!! I don&#039;t want a more complicated system with more things that can go wrong. I&#039;d much rather have an all electic at that can get more miles than a more complex flex fuel vehicle that only goes 40 &amp; relies on an ICE afterwards to charge the battery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am on the pre-order for this book.<br />
<a href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/Seth-Leitman/e/9780071543736/?itm=2" rel="nofollow">http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/Seth-Leitman/e/9780071543736/?itm=2</a></p>
<p>I travel intercity to 5 appointments a day.  Today is the very 1st time I went past 100 miles, but go over 40 every day. If Tesla or some company does not make an all-electric mid-sized car (as I&#8217;m over 6 ft &amp; 250 lbs) that reaches 150 miles to the charge soon, I will be building my own near maintenance free all electric car.  Leave the expense of oil canges, radiater flushes, exaust maintenance, fuel injection cleaning, transmision flushes, etc. out!!!!! I don&#8217;t want a more complicated system with more things that can go wrong. I&#8217;d much rather have an all electic at that can get more miles than a more complex flex fuel vehicle that only goes 40 &amp; relies on an ICE afterwards to charge the battery.</p>
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		<title>By: koz</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-42207</link>
		<dc:creator>koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 02:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-42207</guid>
		<description>Sorry, malfunctioning mouse posted my partially cooked thought.

The technology will advance rapidly in the first few generations of E-Flex. GM is on the steep part of the learning curve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, malfunctioning mouse posted my partially cooked thought.</p>
<p>The technology will advance rapidly in the first few generations of E-Flex. GM is on the steep part of the learning curve.</p>
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		<title>By: koz</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-42206</link>
		<dc:creator>koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 02:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-42206</guid>
		<description>omegaman66
&quot;
And if you look forward and it is a long range big win over time because as supercaps and batteries improve the all electric distance can be increased with no increase in cost. Or if hondas belief in fuel cells pans out then bam simply put one of those on the volt immediately. No real new engineering needed.
Basically right now we here need to realize that the volt is basically on par with the prius but has the added benefit of large batteries and the added cost to offset that benefit. But the benefit for future models will always be there whereas the added cost will slowly or quickly disepate.&quot;

Thank you for bringing this up again. Although said before, it bears repeating every once in a while. THE WORST VALUE PROPOSITION E-FLEX VEHICLE WILL BE THE FIRST GENERATION VOLT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>omegaman66<br />
&#8221;<br />
And if you look forward and it is a long range big win over time because as supercaps and batteries improve the all electric distance can be increased with no increase in cost. Or if hondas belief in fuel cells pans out then bam simply put one of those on the volt immediately. No real new engineering needed.<br />
Basically right now we here need to realize that the volt is basically on par with the prius but has the added benefit of large batteries and the added cost to offset that benefit. But the benefit for future models will always be there whereas the added cost will slowly or quickly disepate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for bringing this up again. Although said before, it bears repeating every once in a while. THE WORST VALUE PROPOSITION E-FLEX VEHICLE WILL BE THE FIRST GENERATION VOLT.</p>
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		<title>By: doggydogworld</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-42203</link>
		<dc:creator>doggydogworld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 01:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-42203</guid>
		<description>#74 Omegaman said &lt;i&gt;&quot;the beauty of the Volt drive train is that it is ultimitely CHEAPER!!!!!&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This is not correct. E-Flex is elegant and flexible (thus the name), but not cheap. Serial requires the highest investment in motor/generators and power electronics. Serial is simpler and gives designers more freedom in stuff like generator type and location.

Today&#039;s systems (HSD, IMA, Two-mode, BAS, E-Flex) each have different strengths and weaknesses and are chosen to match the needs of specific applications. The most cost effective EREV system I&#039;ve seen is the one I believe BYD chose.  It&#039;s tricky to get right, but it could match Volt&#039;s performance with half the motor cost, 35% lower power electronics cost and slightly less expensive batteries. These are significant savings, though they come at the cost of design flexibility. BYD can&#039;t put the ICE anywhere they please like GM can nor can they easily swap in a fuel cell or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#74 Omegaman said &lt;i&gt;&#8221;the beauty of the Volt drive train is that it is ultimitely CHEAPER!!!!!&#8221;&lt;/i&gt;</p>
<p>This is not correct. E-Flex is elegant and flexible (thus the name), but not cheap. Serial requires the highest investment in motor/generators and power electronics. Serial is simpler and gives designers more freedom in stuff like generator type and location.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s systems (HSD, IMA, Two-mode, BAS, E-Flex) each have different strengths and weaknesses and are chosen to match the needs of specific applications. The most cost effective EREV system I&#8217;ve seen is the one I believe BYD chose.  It&#8217;s tricky to get right, but it could match Volt&#8217;s performance with half the motor cost, 35% lower power electronics cost and slightly less expensive batteries. These are significant savings, though they come at the cost of design flexibility. BYD can&#8217;t put the ICE anywhere they please like GM can nor can they easily swap in a fuel cell or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry K</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-42088</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 04:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-42088</guid>
		<description>In reply to #41, john1701a, re: Driving a Prius on electric only. Here is the FAQ from Toyota.

13. Can Prius run on electricity when it runs out of gas? 
No. Though Prius can operate in electric-only mode when gasoline is in the tank, it is not designed to run without gasoline. Doing so could cause severe damage to the hybrid system, so drivers should be sure to keep gas in the tank at all times. 

This faq can be viewed at http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2008/prius/faq.html

So we are still comparing apples and oranges. Please note that I am not flaming Prius owners. They still rule for best MPG in gasoline cars. The Volt is simply a different breed of car.

The best thing to compare the Volt to is a diesel locomotive. Both use an ICE to generate electric, to turn wheels connected to electric motors. Some locomotives have battery packs to help move the train, an even closer comparison to the Volt. 

I hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to #41, john1701a, re: Driving a Prius on electric only. Here is the FAQ from Toyota.</p>
<p>13. Can Prius run on electricity when it runs out of gas?<br />
No. Though Prius can operate in electric-only mode when gasoline is in the tank, it is not designed to run without gasoline. Doing so could cause severe damage to the hybrid system, so drivers should be sure to keep gas in the tank at all times. </p>
<p>This faq can be viewed at <a href="http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2008/prius/faq.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2008/prius/faq.html</a></p>
<p>So we are still comparing apples and oranges. Please note that I am not flaming Prius owners. They still rule for best MPG in gasoline cars. The Volt is simply a different breed of car.</p>
<p>The best thing to compare the Volt to is a diesel locomotive. Both use an ICE to generate electric, to turn wheels connected to electric motors. Some locomotives have battery packs to help move the train, an even closer comparison to the Volt. </p>
<p>I hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-41964</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-41964</guid>
		<description>It seems to me like more and more Honda and Toyota are currently making the same types of mistakes that GM made in the early hybrid days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me like more and more Honda and Toyota are currently making the same types of mistakes that GM made in the early hybrid days.</p>
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		<title>By: noel park</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-41955</link>
		<dc:creator>noel park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-41955</guid>
		<description>#58 Speedy:

Are you saying that those cars are actually coming?  If so, where do I get one?  Or, are you suggesting that GM should build them?  If so, I totally agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#58 Speedy:</p>
<p>Are you saying that those cars are actually coming?  If so, where do I get one?  Or, are you suggesting that GM should build them?  If so, I totally agree.</p>
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		<title>By: BillR</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-41921</link>
		<dc:creator>BillR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 15:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-41921</guid>
		<description>#82 Nasaman

Well, Nasaman, you&#039;ve made me dig back into my archives, but here is an article on PM motors that I think you will find interesting.

http://www.allbusiness.com/defense-aerospace/defense-industry-defense/6229341-1.html

Note that I myself am not an expert on electric motors, however, I have been following some of the developments in electric drive.  A defense contractor, DRS, claims that PM motors are 1-2% more efficient at full load, and 10-15% more efficient at partial load.  Note that their large motor for ship propulsion is 99.3% efficient!

Note, I have seen this 36.5 MW motor from DRS, and it is quite impressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#82 Nasaman</p>
<p>Well, Nasaman, you&#8217;ve made me dig back into my archives, but here is an article on PM motors that I think you will find interesting.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.allbusiness.com/defense-aerospace/defense-industry-defense/6229341-1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.allbusiness.com/defense-aerospace/defense-industry-defense/6229341-1.html</a></p>
<p>Note that I myself am not an expert on electric motors, however, I have been following some of the developments in electric drive.  A defense contractor, DRS, claims that PM motors are 1-2% more efficient at full load, and 10-15% more efficient at partial load.  Note that their large motor for ship propulsion is 99.3% efficient!</p>
<p>Note, I have seen this 36.5 MW motor from DRS, and it is quite impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: ThombDbhomb</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/21/honda-still-hasnt-plugged-in-yet/#comment-41904</link>
		<dc:creator>ThombDbhomb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1077#comment-41904</guid>
		<description>#67 DaveP
Point taken. Here is a link concerning gasoline and diesel prices

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#67 DaveP<br />
Point taken. Here is a link concerning gasoline and diesel prices</p>
<p><a href="http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp" rel="nofollow">http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp</a></p>
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