CEO of Compact Power on His Charge to Build the Volt’s Battery
Compact Power, Inc. (CPI) is a Troy Michigan-based company with 50 employees (on its way to 100) which has teamed up with the massive battery maker, Korea’s LG Chem, as one of the teams vying to make the Volt’s battery pack.
A new interview with CPIs’ CEO Prabhakar Patil is published by Edmunds.
Patil indicates he believes one reason his company was chosen by GM (from an initial filed of 27 contractors) was becasue LG Chem already has an existing high volume battery production operation.
He noted that CPI is also negotiating with other automakers.
Patil agrees that GMs 2010 Volt timeline is a challenge, and states “The miraculous part of doing this battery in the required time period was that, at first, we didn’t even have a cell (of the proper size).”
Speaking of the technological achievements that have had to occur, he said, “There was a great degree of difficulty: We literally had to double the energy capability of the cell that we had developed for hybrids prior to Volt.”
He confirms the success of the prototypes, “the packs we’ve delivered to GM have worked very well – line on line with how we said they’d perform.”
Finally he concedes his companies “marathon at a sprint pace” is being run by his employees becasue “they relate to this not just as a job, but it has become a cause bigger than themselves,” referring to the game changing nature the Volt represents for the auto industry.
See my prior interview with CPI execs: Part 1 , Part 2
Source (Edmunds )
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74 Responses to “CEO of Compact Power on His Charge to Build the Volt’s Battery”
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April 29th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
I am ThombDbhomb’s 10-yr. old son. I hope the Volt makes the world better with its gasoline efficiency and its pollution reduction.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Good article.
Notice how all his comments about the “timeline challenge” and the “miraculous part” are in the past tense.
He seems quite convinced that the battery is performing to GM’s satisfaction. This is good news and just confirms that the battery is no longer responsible for delays.
He also seems confident they will be able to fulfill the production requirements because he infers that it is the very reason GM chose them.
All good news to my ears! And he’s right, this is bigger than all of us.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Sounds like the next miracle is how to make the packs affordable!
April 29th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
If you want a best guess at the initial cost of the Volt, here’s one opportunity to find out how much. I’ll bet Lyle asked how much these packs would cost a consumer if produced in large volumes…right Lyle
April 29th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Amen brother. I think everyone sees this development effort as equivalent to the Tennessee Valley Authority, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, etc., in its impact on the US economy’s future health / growth.
It is an opportunity to really change the dynamics of our security / economy / environment, and everyone involved is diving on it - no excuses.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Great new information. I hope the sprint and marathon get us to seeing a Volt on the road in the new design this summer!
April 29th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
I still think that it’s possible that CPI could be producing packs from an
A123/Conti design. It seems that GM is more interested in their capacity than their technology. While they haven’t suggested one pack is better than the other, there were Lutz hints about how excited they were when the received the first of the Conti packs.
GM is also developing cells with A123 which sounds like a strategic long term project. I can’t see them going with CPI unless for production reasons.
http://www.a123systems.com/#/news/news3
April 29th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Well, with all this battery cost being an issue talk, why not have a volt that comes without the battery? ! ?
Maybe I am slow and this is already being considered, but if the volt travels at 50mpg without the battery, then why not just make a volt without a battery? Might shed 12,000 dollars off the price. It would also increase range because of the battery weight. And it would be great to have the option to buy the battery later of course when the battery gets cheaper and better. This would be a modular car, updating parts on a whim. I could imaging all the third party addons. I would buy a volt without the main battery just because of its high efficiency!
April 29th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
OK, NVM!
I just read the article about my idea……well thats good that the idea is being considered.
April 29th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Armed M: The Chevy Volt without the battery would not be able to get 50 mpg. The battery is a key enabler for the higher efficiency. The Volt uses regenerative breaking (i.e. when you press on the break, it converts the forward momentum back into electricity by spinning a generator). Moreover, the gas engine for the Volt will be specifically tuned as a generator — i.e. it will operate at most optimal RPMs and it would probably use more the more efficient Atkinson cycle. The engine would probably also not produce enough power for adequate acceleration. … Perhaps you would like the Chevy Cobalt XFE?
April 29th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
The Volt would need a battery, perhaps 2 KWH capacity to provide for acceleration, etc, while the gen set just operates at optimum speed to provide replenishment. Hence, when the car is operating at steady state, the generator would be recharging the battery (steady state demand plus replenishment) but when the car is accelerating, or going up hill, the battery would provide the extra ooph needed. And even at 2 KWH, if the car encountered a long upgrade, the battery would be depleted, and the power available limited to the generator rating, not enough to hold speed.
I guess what I am saying is leave the Volt design right where it is with at least 8 KWH of usable capacity, and everything will work just fine.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Very good news. Glad to hear that the battery guys are working just as hard as GM.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
The object of the Volt is to run the EPA cycle without using gas. I am sure GM would like to have multiple suppliers. More batteries would equal more Volts. Am I wrong?
The Volt itself is the first step in a long road to energy independence. Prabhakar Patil’s analogy is correct.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Important article…Lyle, do you have access to all of the Volt suppliers? One Volt part missing is an incomplete Volt. The battery is a hot topic item, but what if another item slowed progress?
Progess reports from the suppliers could help GM keep timelines.
It also would give all of the suppliers an opportunity at the spotlight. I’m sure that some of the folks on this site may have more detailed info the other suppliers’ product(s).
April 29th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
I wonder if CPI has an edge because they delivered their packs some 3 months before A123? That’s a lot of time working directly with GM, improving and tweaking.
ThombDbhomb #1, How does your daddy pronounce his name?
April 29th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
#13, Red HHR, I agree. if both battery suppliers are able to produce the batteries on the scale needed, what harm would it bring to GM for using both? I’m sure either battery would cost the same as each other..
April 29th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
We have to realize something about using electric cars. Our governments are addicted to oil taxes and electric cars throw this tax system into chaos.
This may be the real reason that the government really wants us to go ethanol and then Hydrogen - because the tax system of using a fuel remains.
Electric is a real threat to government. If we went electric, then they would have to tax us directly some other way to extract the $1000.00 they get from each car every year.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
As long as they don’t pick from the Chevette parts bin like they did for the Fiero, I’ll be a happy camper…
(Am I THAT old??? Oh my!!)
April 29th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
One of the good things about CPI is that Volt battery production, or cell production wouldn’t have to rely on China, since CPI’s cells come from LG in S. Korea.
I know A123 had problems with stolen intellectual property, and had to end their joint venture with one Chinese company. Another disruption like this could spell disaster for the Volt. Regardless of whose technology, if the cells are produced in S. Korea this would be a good thing.
April 29th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
#17 Demetrius
Its not hard, they tax diesel vehicles directly here based upon the road mileage used. The reason is farmers and other off road users Don’t have to pay a fuel tax.
The point is, the system here is already set up for electric vehicles.
Although with a gas/petrol ICE you would have to pay the fuel and road tax. In other words, when the ICE was running you would be paying twice, hence my hope the RHD version comes out with a diesel genset.
April 29th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
I have a question :
Why does the volt only get 40 mile range when the EV-1 got a 100 miles range?
I am not seeing the big problem with getting a battery to achieve 40 miles.
April 29th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Lyle,
Now that you are going to be rich as well as famous , do you think you could send Denise Gray some flowers from the GM-Volt crew?
April 29th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I think it is funny how all these execs talk about “2010 being a challenge”.
There is only really one question for each of the parts that GM has outsourced, and for the Volt Team itself:
Can you deliver your component, in quantity, at the specs required, and at a price point that will keep the vehicle affordable, so that GM can have vehicles in the showrooms ready for sale to the waiting customers by Nov, 2010?
If you can do that, just say so!!!
If you can’t, be honest and say that as well!!!
The last thing that GM needs is for the Volt to be ready to go into assembly, but that a major part (The Battery Pack), or some minor part (High Efficiency Windshield Wiper Motors) are not ready and holds up production.
And by this time, it should be known. Test mules are on the road. Design freeze of the interior and exterior should have already occurred, or is very close to being finalized. As soon as the data is from the mules has been verified, the drive train can be released from engineering and set for production.
The sooner each of these steps is completed, the sooner an assembly plant can be geared up for production, then get through the required crash testing, etc., and get these vehicles on the road!!!
April 29th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Jim I # 23
The reality is that it’s more than just outsourced parts. Even if everything fit together today like a glove, there is so much testing and system integration that must be done to ensure these things won’t self destruct that it boggles the mind. With everyday ICE vehicles, GM would be working from a known parts list and with known variables, after all…how long has GM been producing ICE vehicles? This is not the case with the Volt. This is why this project has been referred to as a “moon shot”. It’s much much more than just a matter of outsourced parts.
April 29th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
ghost #21:
The two vehicles had different design goals.
The EV-1 was a BEV, and ran the battery packs pretty hard to get a 100 mile range. And the car was never really designed to be able to work in all areas of the country.
The Volt is being designed to give daily commutes of 40 miles AER, which will give the battery packs a long life with 4000+ recharges and the capability to work as a worldwide vehicle. But to give the car the versatility we demand, the small ICE and generator will give the consumer a car that can be used for all driving requirements. This design spec will allow almost 80% of the daily drivers to use little or no gas.
For my driving requirments, the EV-1 range would only have worked for me five of the seven days per week, and I doubt that it would have worked much at all in winter in NE Ohio! The Volt design will allow me to utilize one car for all of my driving, while cutting my gas consumption by 90%. As a first step to the elimination of oil consumption for transportation, I think this is a remarkable achievement!
April 29th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Grizzly #24:
I agree, but the system integration and testing is being done in-house at GM. We have already seen how the battery packs are being tested in the labs and now in the mules.
But if the hand built components being delivered for testing work as advertised, but then can not be delivered in quantity for manufacturing, then delivered vehicles will not happen.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:01 am
21 Ghost…..
You ask, “Why does the volt only get 40 mile range when the EV-1 got a 100 miles range? I am not seeing the big problem with getting a battery to achieve 40 miles.”
There’s really not an insurmountable problem in designing a battery for 40 miles. The Volt’s design tradeoffs make it very attractive to about 4/5ths of the US market. A 100 mile EV battery would add FAR too much to the car’s cost for that market. Or to put it differently, the Volt’s range-extension ICE/Gen is MUCH less expensive than increasing the battery size enough to also meet the needs of the last 1/5th of the market would be.
In other words, GM’s tradeoffs between battery size/cost & ICE/Gen cost for the Volt are very nearly IDEAL for the North American market!
April 30th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Jim I #26
If that were true you are correct. But with 2 years to work that out I don’t see that being an issue. With a ground breaking vehicle like this I will quote Maximum Bob, “We don’t know what we don’t know”.
This would not be something said of producing another ICE vehicle. Again, I just want to stress that no one should under estimate just what it takes to bring a vehicle like this to market, and in a compressed schedule nonetheless. THIS IS NOT EASY.
GM will produce, and GM will win. I’m confident.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:22 am
#15 George K
I saw an opportunity to make the first comment on this post. I thought being first would be a childish reason to post. Luckily, my son was with me. So, I let him be first. He was excited to do it. But, he also sees the merits of the Volt in addressing a lot of important issues that have a bearing on the world he is inheriting. He knows how excitied I am about the Volt. We share this Volt experience.
“ThombDbhomb” has some silent letters that throw people off. It is pronounced like “Tom da bomb.” That name is a little childish too. I couldn’t think of anything more clever at the time and it is established now. When I’ve said enough stupid things and you people can’t stand me any more, I’ll change the name and have a new identity.
Now, about the batteries…Unless they are putting on a good face, achieving the specs seems to have been too easy. We must be in for some wonderful news about battery capabilities. How did they double the energy capability of their cells?
April 30th, 2008 at 12:52 am
After reading all the material here and reading between the lines I believe that the reason for the low initial car production volume is because of battery supply reasons. If not that I think there is also the fact that GM wants low volume so that they can get the car ironed out before really ramping up volume big time.
For the next several years if not for the next decade or more li-ion batteries are going to be in such high demand that GM would be crazy not to buy every battery they can from both suppliers even if they don’t have a car to put it in. Better too many than too few.
I am thinking more and more that I might have to have my present truck converted to all electric before I am able to buy one from GM, Toyota etc. All electric for 15K. Beats waiting 5 years for the first truck to be produced with the volt rev.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:29 am
#18 Paul… I happen to own three 88 Fieros and at that point the Chevette based suspension had been discarded for the custom designed suspension. But it was too little too late.
You are right that GM has a history of throwing together cars and then slowing improving them at the expense of the early adopters.
Past performance suggests they will do that again with the Volt and there will be parts bin stuff thrown in there that if the car survives 5 years might be designed out, but let’s hope we are both wrong.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:02 am
I think it is a pretty safe bet that there will be a good bit of changes from volt 1.0 to 2.0! The REV is new and being thrown together quickly by GM standards. I would expect many many tweeks to many components of the car as they are refined and made better over time. It is unrealistic to expect GM to come out with a highly fine tuned vehicle when they are making the first one ever. Just like the old computers of 20 years ago have been improved so will the Volt.
Fine tuning the battery to the proper SOC setting is probably a given. What are the chances that GM hit that nail on the head before the batteries even existed. Heating systems driven by electricity in cars is new so likewise you can expect new developments and tweeks there as well. And on and on.
Anyone buying volt 1.0 that doesn’t expect their car to be technologically old in a matter of a couple of years better hold off on buying one.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:43 am
#32 omegaman66
“Anyone buying volt 1.0 that doesn’t expect their car to be technologically old in a matter of a couple of years better hold off on buying one.”
That’s exactly right, just look at version 1 of the Prius.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:31 am
“What keeps people going is that they relate to this not just as a job, but it has become a cause bigger than themselves,” he said. “They’re doing something specific for the country and for our technological reputation, as well as for the environment. And rarely do you get a chance to be associated with something that is literally a game changer in the auto industry.”
Exactly why I’m buy a Volt!
April 30th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Here is a link to show the details of earlier GM contract with CPI/LG chemical team and the A123 system for the Li-ion battery for Volt.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/06/gm_awards_advan.html
Even today there is no definite direction in the development of battery for BEV / E-Flex which is made clear in the link below that gives a fair amount of details on the developments by more than a dozen manufacturers. It is difficult to show who will be the ultimate winner.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/batteries/index.html
Now there is a fair degree of consensus that Li-ion battery ,which is a technology that is about twenty years old ,is the hope for the future, but remember NiMH battery which is the second best in terms of cost, energy density, weight etc took almost 50 years to reach the present state of reliability.
So my point is that we should be prepared to show more patience in expecting a Volt in the dealers shop.
May be it is certain that ThombDbhomb junior will be driving one with a reliable system
April 30th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Pleased to hear CPI is making progress with the battery.
Problem is, if Maximum doesn’t get the cost of the battery down to a reasonable level ($5,000), I’ll never be able to afford the Volt.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Honestly, I think there is a zero to 2 percent chance CPI gets a sniff at the Volt. The only reason GM hasn’t hooked up with a123 is because they are trying to delay/extort a better price.
A123, is a real company.
CPI, is a little offshoot of a big battery maker, mostly a distributor…we are talking about a company that for a 3 million dollar bribe set up it headquarters in Michigan not 3 years ago. They just ‘ramped’ up to a few dozen employees.
A123 has over a thousand employees, nobody makes more nanophosphate based cells. It’s backed by GE, Alliance capital, Motorola, Qualcomm, Proctor and Gamble, etc. etc. It already has large working deals with Chrysler, Ford, GM, et al. If you got a high end power tool, probably the battery is from a123.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:09 am
Also:
Unlike CPI, A123 is ready…so much so that they are already producing 5KW battery packs AND INSTALLING THEM IN PRIUS’ themselves, with warranty. Why wait for GM, when you got half a million potential customers already I guess.
First non fleet customers get their installs in 12 weeks! So in 12 weeks, you can convert your Prius (in 4 hours no less) to a 30-40 mile EV…for $9999, with warranty. We aren’t taking ‘development’ stage, or ‘bench testing’ or ‘mules’ or ‘put a deposit down and you’ll get one in 2 years’. They are ready now.
I’m sure everyone knows it but, linky anywhoo:
http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/home
A123 has upped the antie on GM here. By going directly to the public, doing everything from making, to installing, to giving warranty.
A123 is saying, do whatever you like, we don’t need you. We have 500,000 potential customers already and it’s growing everyday. This action by A123 actually threatens GM’s potential client list.
I myself am very tempted to do this. A 35 mile EV, with warranty on the car still thru Toyota and warranty on the battery thru A123. I can get a new Prius and battery for $29,999. Or buy a used, year old one and convert it for like $22K. And have it this summer! I am really struggling to see why I am waiting for 3 years…
April 30th, 2008 at 8:32 am
GM posts loss today of $3.3 billion in the quarter:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080430/earns_gm.html
Someone here before said to me that GM wasn’t ‘in trouble’ because it had 25 billion in cash. I mentioned that at current burn rate they would be at 10 billion in two years, which at that level GM loses it’s credit rating entirely…then filing for protection
GM went down from 24.6 to 21.3 billion this quarter. You can say ‘one-time’ charges, but there have been no fewer than 8 ‘one-time’ charges in the last 3 years.
Revenue has dropped, sales are off, strike at American Axle, 33 plants shuttered, all truck plants cutting a shift, impending CAW (Canada) labor war, GMAC financing taking major ‘lending’ hit with ResCap…and oh yeah, still trying to bail out Delphi bankruptcy.
If you want a GM Volt you better hope the dems get in, because they are the only party willing to prop up GM (ala Chrysler style) when it files.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:29 am
What maintenance is needed for the volt?
April 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Statik #38
“A123 is saying, do whatever you like, we don’t need you. We have 500,000 potential customers already and it’s growing everyday. This action by A123 actually threatens GM’s potential client list.”
*** *** ****
I don’t think A123 has ever said anything of the like. They would like nothing more than to be the supplier of cells for a revolutionary car like the Volt, just as CPI would.
You certainly take liberty with facts. Only DeWalt, which is Black and Decker’s high end line of tools uses A123 packs.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:39 am
GM has to get on the ball and get the Volt out ASAP… the Ford Escape hybrid is already boasting 50 MPG in town… the Prius (depending on who you talk to) is getting 60 - 79 MPG in town.. Honda is not far off on any of these either.
The Phoenix Corp. has an all electric SUV available with a 100 + mile range on a charge..
The choices are getting to be more and more interesting… and available RIGHT NOW..
I am hoping for my Volt mid 2011 in Central Alberta, Canada. If not someone else is definetly getting my money…
Lets go GM……
April 30th, 2008 at 9:42 am
ThombDbhomb #1
Young people like you are one reason we all want the Volt to succeed. You will see many changes in your life. Good luck and I wish you the best. God bless you…
April 30th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Great news…. hhmmm!
How much is stock in CPI?
April 30th, 2008 at 10:40 am
#39 Statik:
Alas, i just heard that news on the way in.
This while I am in the midst of reading Kevin Phillips’ latest effort, “Bad Money”, which is doing nothing for my peace of mind either.
Pretty scary.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Noel @ 45,
Yep, scary. More scary that GM didn’t see a problem with producing a surplus of gas guzzlers when people didn’t want to buy them. I think the criticism of greenwashing may have some truth to it. Even people on these boards have suggested they will buy a GM product while they wait for the Volt. To those people I say do not buy without a plug. Sorry GM (and all auto manufacturers).
April 30th, 2008 at 10:56 am
GM may lose some money. With out a doubt they are going to have trouble selling their large trucks and SUVs. Most of the trucks will sell because everyone needs a truck, right? An SUV is a luxury item. Most of us don’t really need one. We buy them because they seem safer for the wife and kids to ride in or we think we have to keep up with Jones. My apology to the Jones.
GM is not going broke. They will be ok. OK?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:03 am
#46 Dave B:
Or at least, as I have said here about 100 times, something with mileage equal to a Yaris/Fit/Versa. Which they have in Europe, but not here, alas.
It is going to be a long time before there are enough e-flex technology vehicles available to staunch the flow of red ink. Meanwhile the products you correctly cite above will continue to sell like cold cakes.
If they don’t offer something which will actually sell in the interim, the cash will run out before the Volt can ride to the rescue, as Statik correctly warns above.
Will the Feds bail them out? I dunno. Kevin Phillips is not too optimistic.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:12 am
#47 N Riley:
I don’t think that’s a given.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Noel Park:
Yeah, I know you could be right. But let’s hope not.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Did I hear that VW was interested in buying GM?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Noel @ 48 “It is going to be a long time before there are enough e-flex technology vehicles available to staunch the flow of red ink. Meanwhile the products you correctly cite above will continue to sell like cold cakes.”
Well, I can think of a scenario where the government would license or seize the technology and begin manufacturing vehicles if the pipelines stop flowing. For example, during the World Wars, it was common for manufacturing efforts to crank out weapons for the war efforts. Would it be so different if suddenly tomorrow we could not fill our tanks? I hope it does not happen, but believe me, I foresee it as a distinct possibility in these troubling times.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Battery tech is here now, and aftermarkets like cited above (statik #38)
are going to help ToYOta firm up it’s lead over GM.
I have plans in hand that could electrify my everyday car for about $6,000, if i do it my self. Albeit i would be using flooded lead batteries. But, it looks like an additional $10,000 would get me a modern battery too! This would be in the near future - still a year i bet or more. I want to get a package deal like the Volt.
Listen up Auto makers WE DON’T NEED NO STINKIN’ GUSLERS! No one should buy any car that doesn’t have a plugin port. I will not buy a standard ICE, period.
Hurry GM! and get the price down or we will have to look else where.
Still Cheering for Volt, but i’m liking the options too.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
#50 N Riley:
Well I hope that you can tell from my history here that I devoutly hope not. I am just trying to add my voice to the chorus saying that business as usual is not going to get it.
I mean, it is going to take hundreds of thousands of Volts and Volt derivatives to take up the slack from lost sales of GM’s traditional bread and butter vehicles. That is not going to happen for several years. Something has to be done to plug up the leaks in the meantime.
Show me one of those British GM Vauxhalls rated at 56 mpg combined, and I will buy it today. Or Jean-Charles Jacquemin’s Opel, come to that.
Turbo 1.4L, 6 speed automatic Cobalt anyone? How about the belt hybrid system on an Aveo?
In 1992 Jon Moss took a bunch of parts out of the bin and turned the ugly duckling Caprice Classic into the Impala SS, which has a pretty good cult following in SoCal to this day. As I have said many times before, “Where is Jon Moss, now that we really need him?”
April 30th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
#54 Noel Park
Or bring the Holden from Australia. It sounds and looks like a good car. GM may need to “jazz” up their line up and reduce models that are not selling.
Well, I am on vacation the rest of the day. Ya’ll hold down the fort.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I guess we’ve veered from CPI and batteries to GM’s financial viability.
Yes, GM is in a down cycle. That’s business. I think GM has sufficient financial assests and business acumen to correct themselves. They are already on the path with the Volt program.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
ThombDbhomb, # 56 says, “I guess we’ve veered from CPI and batteries to GM’s financial viability.”
Some people get angry about this, but it seems only natural to me.
One a person has a conversation, it often switches subjects.
It seems the same way here. I don’t mind it all at, but certainly some people do.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Sorry, should say “When a person has a conversation……..”
April 30th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
“”"”What maintenance is needed for the volt?”"”"”
I don’t claim to be an expert or anywhere close to an expert but here are my thoughts on this question since nobody else has reply to it.
1. Li-ion batteries need NO MAINTENANCE as long as they are discharged to deeply and then the only maintenance is charging them seperately so that they can all be balanced so you can once again use each cell to its maximum energy density. I am not sure but if the cells in the volt become inbalanced I think the Volts might take care of this itself. Does anyone know for sure???
2. You will have to put air in the tires.
3. You will have to make sure the you change the oil in the generator once every 30 years!!!
Actually this will vary with individual but I would bet for most people an oil change once every two years would be enough. Of course if your commute uses the ICE it would be more frequently. I know people or going to say to never allow the oil to go for that long regardless of use, but I don’t believe that if it is only used 5 times a year.
4. Wash it periodically to make it look good.
5. Add fuel stabilizer to the gas tank so that it doesn’t go bad on you.
6. And probably the biggest maintenance job will be to manually force the ICE to run every couple of weeks just to keep the fuel system from gumming up.
Wouldn’t it be great if the largest part of you gas bill was running the ICE for no other reason than to keep the ICE engine in good enough shape so that it will be available IF you ever need it.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I get bothered when the thread gets hijacked and goes on political rants. That is usually when I speak up. I have a son in the military, and when I start to read how we are the murderers, it does get me fired up!!
But this change of topic still concerns GM and the Volt, so how can that be a problem????
I do agree that with current gasoline pricing, that many people are going to have to do something sooner than 2011. I think that GM should put a diesel power plant in a Cobalt or one of their other smaller vehicles. That should be able to be done pretty quickly, and would attract a lot of buyers, don’t you think? And those assembly lines are already set up, and could put out vehicles in quantity. I know that the Lordstown plant here in Youngstown, OH where they build Cobalts is only running two shifts right now, so they could boost production quickly by adding a third shift. But there has to be a reason to do it, and the only reason that people care about this minute is increased mileage per gallon of fuel!!
April 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
I can’t see putting a desiel in Cobalt in Canada where the price of desiel is almost 10 cents per liter HIGHER than gasoline.
The only “cheap” fuel right now is propane which is running at about 1/2 the price of gasoline… only thing with propane… you use a 1/3 of a tank more to go the same distance asa tank of gas. Some savings as the conversion kit is only about $ 1500.00
April 30th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
#61 Theoldguy:
Good idea. According to Mr. Gereon Langlitz, who comments often on the Fastlane blog, you can buy a brand new Aveo today in Germany with a dealer installed propane system. He ought to know, he drives one. Propane is about 1/2 the price of gas in Germany as well. It’s also cleaner, as I understand it. I would buy one in a heartbeat.
#60 Jim I:
A diesel Cobalt would work for me as well. I do not believe that GM has a small diesel US emissions certified yet, alas. Diesel costs more than gas here at the moment as well, but you more than save it back on the better mileage, I believe.
How about CNG? Honda has a CNG Civic with an available home refueling device. Talk about a cheaper way to drive. It is also legal to run with one occupant in the carpool lanes, which would be a huge plus in SoCal.
And thanks. I do believe that this pertains to the Volt. If the corporation cannot keep its head above water until the Volt and its siblings come into general use, we will never get one.
Finally, I have made a few comments about Iraq here from time to time. Just understand that I want to weep whenever I hear of our soldiers being killed and wounded. I used to cut the military obituaries out of the LA times every week and send them to the White House, until I finally decided it was a waste of time. I only hope with all my heart that your son, and every single one of his colleagues, remain safe and sound, without a single mark on any of them.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
The price is higher for diesel, but wouldn’t you increase the mileage from 25 mpg city to 45+ mpg? For a car you can buy that has a reasonable price, doesn’t that make sense for the short term?
And it should not take too much of an engineering or assembly plant update to implement……..
April 30th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
#44 Jim Rowland
Compact Power, Inc. is a private company. Compact Power, Inc. is partnership with LG Chem. LG Chem is a Sub-subsidiaries from LG Corp. The LG Corp stock is 003550. If you have a broker that can deal with international stock exchange.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=003550.KS
http://www.lg.net/investor/management/management02.jsp
April 30th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Surely GM must be working frantically to get a diesel into their Saturns that are derived from Opels.
Lets hope for GM’s sake they are ready next year.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
#41 Grizzly
I realize they didn’t actually say, “do whatever you like, we don’t need you,”and I don’t think anyone would take it the way I wrote it in a literal sense. But by taking action and going direct to the customer they are ‘telling’ the automakers they are going forward regardless.
And BDK and Dewalt have the majority of the market share for high end 36 volt power tools…obviously no one supplier is going to have 100 percent penetration. I said ‘if’ you have a high end tool it ‘PROBABLY’ has a A123 in it.
Let’s not split hairs if we can help it. If you have a conflicting opinion thats cool, free country and all. Hit me with your opinion of why A123 has gone to market to with a Lith battery, if not to make money in a segment faced with no major automaker deal. Or tell me who does own the market share in the high end power tool business, if not A123.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
#54 Noel
“Turbo 1.4L, 6 speed automatic Cobalt anyone? How about the belt hybrid system on an Aveo?”
Beauty! My thoughts exactly. I guess the plan is to do exactly that for the 2009 model Cobalt (woohoo). But GM really needs to offer a more thrifty engine choice in alot (maybe all?) of it’s models.
Seems like a easier fix. Somepeople…well more and more people care about MPG now, and care less about how ‘peppy’ it is.
Nice post.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Statik,
My reaction to why A123 wants to do conversions is that they are undoubtedly more profitable than selling batteries to GM in compettition to CPI and they may not want to develop the capacity to build those 16KwHr batteries for a low volume trade with GM.
Those addon kits are only 5KwHr I believe.
Also they got burnt in China and may want to play it safe for a while.
Howwzzaat?
April 30th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
#67 Statik:
Thanks.
As to the Cobalt, I sure hope you’re right.
As to more and more people caring about MPG, I know you’re right
April 30th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Let me make one thing perfectly clear, my next car and every car after that will be electric. $35,000 $40,000 whatever. Every time I drive past a gas station I will smile! It’s a matter on principle now, not pure economics. GM will deliver!
May 1st, 2008 at 12:43 am
#8 Amed M
The Volt gets 50 mpg BECAUSE of the battery. You can’t really get rid of it to cut costs and make it a 50 MPG car by itself. The combustion engine charges the battery and has no mechanical connection between it and the wheels. So it would be less efficient if JUST the engine were powering it. Plus making a 50 MPG car isn’t THAT big of a deal. Diesel already does that and hybrids ALMOST do. (honda insight does). So if they just made it a 50 MPG car people wouldn’t go ALL that crazy, but a chance to never use gas again? That’s why this site exists.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
#71 Mike D
You nailed to number one reason. “but a chance to never use gas again?’ says it exactly the way most of us feel. I want to kick the habit and kick the oil producers and distributors at the same time. (And I work for an oil company.)
May 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
GM needs to produce cars starting now that will get better gas mileage. Everyone here agrees with that. How they do it does not really matter as long as the fuel is readily available to the public and is environmental as good as current gasoline and diesel. Gasoline and diesel is still the best fuel until the Volt or others like it is on the market. I know GM can build high mileage cars. They just need to junk a lot of the excess weight and options (that cause some of the weight) and offer a “base” high mileage car that would be good for commuting. With today’s fuel prices and the way they will increase in the future, GM could sell every one of them and not meet demand.
So, listen up GM. That might keep me from buying a Prius until the Volt comes out.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:36 am
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