Chevy Volt Generation Two
No sooner than we hear the first Chevy Volt lithium-ion battery powered prototypes are tooling around the track, than a GM VP is giving an interview about the next generation Volt.
Fact is the Volt is here to stay (and GM-Volt.com along with it). Indeed we have heard GM North America president Troy Clarke call the Volt this generation’s 57′ Chevy (see post ).
For the first edition Chevy Volts, engineers have been taking the keep-it-simple approach and just making sure they have a robust vehicle than can be made reliable in the tens of thousands of copies.
They have heard our desires for snazzy and unique features, and many times when these ideas are brought up, we are told that might be for the next generation.
GM VP of R&D Larry Burns gave an interview for Road and Track Magazine.
Per the article "work is already under way on the second generation. He declines to give a timeframe."
He also goes on to refer to longer battery ranges, but implies fuel cells could be that range extender. In the past Burns has said the fuel cell Volt is slated for production in 2011 (see post ).
He also appears not to be keen on using E-Flex for large vehicles such as large SUVs and pick-up trucks, but rather indicates the 2-mode hybrid will serve for those.
What would you like to see in the next generation Volt?
Source (Car and Driver)
Popularity: 6%
(5 votes, average: 5 out of 5) 
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April 27th, 2008 at 9:14 am
The most serious improvement would be a greater all-electric range. More whimsically, I’d like to be able to blow the Mustangs into the weeds.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:22 am
A fuel cell version of the Volt must indicate that GM is able to make fuel cells very cheaply now. Fuel cells were targeted for the Cadillac version of the E-flex platform, the Cadillac Evok. If they are now planning on dropping them into a Chevy, it must not be a significant cost / price increase.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Hydrogen…get real!
Look how many E85 stations there are and how long it has taken to build them. Hydrogen is way to far away to truly be feasable. The beautiful thing about E-flex is that we all already have a charging station at home. Having charging stations in public areas is just icing on the cake.
While Hydrogen might be ready in 2020….we need E-flex, E85 and diesel for 2008!
I think they randomly put hydrogen out there in order to show the world they are on the edge of R&D and neither Toyota, Ford or Honda (with their new silly hydrogen car) have a leg up. I think its just PR but that is just my opinion of course.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:35 am
RB: Agreed! I like looking at Mustangs only in my rear view mirror. With the the instant available torque in an electric car it shouldn’t be a problem. It might not happen with the first generation but I’m sure there will be easy tweaks.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:39 am
They must be joking, GM use Volt purely for PR purposes, it is NOT clear if they can ever succeed, now they are talking about second generation, sounds like Hillary is talking about raising reelection $$ as the US president for a second term, even though she may NOT get nominated this summer, even nominated, she has little chance to defeat McCain. Oh, my god, it is certain to me that GM is losing and will NEVER recover.
Feel bad to most Michiganians for the declining of their communist Corporation called GM. I think who ever is buying any GM junkies those days should ask if this company will stay in business for more than 5 years.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:44 am
What I want to see in the 1st and 2nd gen Volt is a vehicle we can all afford. If the buyer wants to add a lot options that ups the price, so be it. But give us a vehicle we can afford first. One that will help get us off the mid-east oil supply. I would love to see the day that the only thing they have to sell is sand.
I don’t want to sound anti-Arab, because I am not. I just believe that the oil producing countries of the mid-east that proclaim to be our friends are helping the people who are planning to kill us here and abroad.
Sorry about the political statement.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Although Larry Burns may imply fuel cells, I don’t forsee them anytime soon, even with a major cost reduction.
Why? Because hydrogen isn’t cheap, and its not readily available. And while 2-mode may be good in larger vehicles, I forsee E-Flex for larger vehicles, with an electric motor for both the front wheels and rear wheels (the Evoq had a similar arrangement, only 2 in-hub motors in the rear).
Using the Volts electric motor of 120 kW, one in front, one in the rear, a truck, van, or SUV would have 240 kW or 320 hp available, not to mention AWD. The ICE and battery could be smaller (minimal plug-in capability) and the ICE could operate intermittantly and at or near its best efficiency (like the Volt’s ICE). This should provide excellent power, value, and flexibility. I would expect a smaller engine, perhaps the 2.0 L engine from the Solstice (260 hp turbocharged 4 cyl with direct fuel injection).
With an EPA rating of 20/20 city/hwy for the 2-move 4WD Tahoe, it is certainly an improvement over the conventional Tahoe. However, the Tahoe only needs 30 hp (22 kW) to move it down the road. The Volt needs about 12 kW at 60 mph (5 miles per kWh). If the Volt can achieve 50 mpg in ICE mode, the Tahoe should be able to get 27 mpg or more.
Therefore, especially for those who won’t need to tow heavy loads (i.e. soccer moms), this could be a much more efficient vehicle.
April 27th, 2008 at 10:07 am
I really want to see options for electric motor size, battery capacity, and engine size (all higher or lower). For example, I’d like to have less battery capacity (~20 miles), and a less powerful engine and motor to get better fuel economy at lower price (my commute is 12 miles round-trip not exceeding 55 miles/hr).
April 27th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Thanks for the opportunity to share. Naturally, if the first generation Volt does not have an adequate trunk, then a 13 cu ft trunk. And of course rear seat headroom of at least 38″. Turning now to new ideas:
Revo - like Tvo for the radio. It would record your presets and allow you to advance the recording in 30 second intervals to avoid those pesky profit centers.
Hardtop convertible, so as I cruise along without engine noise, I can enjoy the less polluted air.
And now for a really wild one, have the range extender be a liquid nitrogen engine/compressor so when you are plugged in, you not only charge your battery, you fill or maintain full, your liquid nitrogen storage tank. This would give the Volt a range of hundreds of miles without burning any gas whatsoever.
April 27th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Quote: “What would you like to see in the next generation Volt?”
Echoing what most have said, I would like a longer range, and all-electric would be nice…
A sport truck like the older Chevy Luv (although much bigger) would be nice for future SUV incorporation of the E-Flex Design…
…and finally, bring back the Fierro, and do it right with a “Spiffy” E-Flex design to compete with the “Spiders” and similar sized cars cruising around.
I still want a Volt in a Green & Gold Metallic paint…when do we see paint schemes?
Johnnie
April 27th, 2008 at 11:09 am
GM’s announcement that it is actively working on Generation Two of the Volt is a clear signal to their detractors who claim the Volt is not a serious long term effort by GM to change the landscape in the American auto industry.
Judging by actions and not words, GM is the only auto company selling cars in America (maybe even in the world) that has a plan to move away from our current dependence on foreign oil. First with Flex-Fuel vehicles; GM had millions of these vehicles on the road before anyone other than Al Gore were even talking about the importance of bio-fuels as a necessary first step in getting us off of foreign oil. Also near term, GM is adding hybrid assist to even their large trucks to boost mpg indicating a company wide commitment that AFAIAA no other auto company can match.
Longer term you have the Volt which will eventually come in 3 versions — All-Electric (BEV), Hydrogen Fuel Cell, and probably for decades into the future a Flex-Fuel ICE E-REV type which is the current Volt being road tested now. Also, consider their other brands like the Cadillac Evok and Saturn. I expect to see a more modest cost E-REV coming as a Saturn brand, and it looks like the Evok will be the “cadillac” of EVs with fuel cell and electric hub motors.
The other auto makers (the Toy company and Found On Road Dead?) seem to be providing nothing more than window dressing with hybrids that need ICE engine running the majority of the time and come out with great concept cars and blow a lot of smoke but in the end won’t change a thing when it comes to actually taking the foreign oil company gun out of our backs. Aren’t we all tired of their hands in our wallets month after month?
April 27th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Greater all-electric range would be the number one improvement I’d like to see for generation 2. However, I’m not sure if battery technology will progress enough between now and then that we will see a big jump in AER. But maybe it would work out. For example, if the current battery ends up lasting 10+ years handily, they could consider expanding the useful capacity to, say, 70% instead of 50%.
Getting the cost down is right up there with more AER. Gadgets are nice but I may not be interested if they keep the price up too high. I hope gen 1 and 2 offer basic versions of the car for people who don’t need or want all the wizardry. Of course, if these things can be had pretty cheaply, bring ‘em on.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Great topic Lyle!
I’d like to see V2G (vehicle-to-grid) capability. Also, a voice nav system. I’d also like to see the polycarbonate roof, and someone mentioned a few weeks ago, an exterior finish he had on a car that resisted scratching, etc.
I’d also like to see a 5 passanger Volt. Also, I’d like a switch to favor the generator over electric, so I could drive to a location on gas and arrive there for 40 miles of battery use. I live in a suburb that is 35 miles from dn-tn Chicago. Or, I may drive to a car demo and want to arrive so I can demo electric mode!
Oh yes, I really want a back-up camera, and perhaps cameras to replace side view mirrors. Also a warning if a driver is in my blind spot.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:33 am
No to the fuel cells!
April 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
I wonder if the fuel cell version might be targeted at China. From what I understand is that China may have the ability to produce a large amount of hydrogen fairly cheaply in the future due to the large number of nuclear power plants they are building. From what I understand there is a process to produce hydrogen from the waste heat from these reactors.
The idea is that since china has little infrastructure for gasoline currently that it may be cost effective for them to use hydrogen.
I’m not sure if it will pan out but I think this is one reason GM is pushing hydrogen in China.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:48 am
I agree! NO FOOL CELLS!! Hydrogen/fuel cell is a terrible way to store & use electricity.
2 mode PLUG-IN hybrid is fine for larger vehicles. GM can however use E-Flex E-REV for a small S-10 style pickup truck.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:48 am
I think it goes without saying, but I’d like to see every problem Gen1 has fixed in a timely manner so that Gen2 which should be a higher volume car has most of the initial design bugs worked out. I think this would be more important than adding bells and whistles this early in the game. There will undoubtedly be small problems with system function, ie when the ice comes on and when it doesn’t etc. and that will need to be tweaked even further.
If Gen1 does not have it, then Gen2 should have the ability to flash update the PCM to address future problems/deficiencies with an upgrade. This would go a long way in assuring volume buyers that this car will not be obsolete.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:54 am
If China doesn’t have a service station network, how will drivers there find hydrogen fuel? You would need a network of stations to provide either gas/diesel and/or hydrogen.
Electric cars with a longer range and quick recharging would be the best bet whether in China or the USA.
Get us off the oil kick and the service station as much as possible. The Volt as it stands in gen 1 form would be a great first step. Hopefully gen 2 will advance us further on the road to freedom from oil and service networks.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Hydrogen doesn’t make sense for all applications. But I’m continually perplexed at the visceral and dogmatic emotions it evokes when the subject is brought up. Reminds me of reactions when people challenged aspects of religion or followers of the Atkins diet. So at the risk of being labelled an apostate, here are a couple points to consider.
Hydrogen make sense mostly with larger vehicles and city vehicles, where local emissions are proven to affect health, notably of children and the eldery. They also reduce noise pollution, which increases the quality of life.
Large buses for example cannot be purely electrically powered. Neither can taxis or police vehicles, which drive all day and don’t have time for recharging. So if your goal is to reduce pollution in urban areas, zero emission fuel cells have its use.
But the auto makers should be careful to give us all the choices and let the market decide and let hydrogen live or die on its own merits. Making a fuel cell range extender variant doesn’t take away your ability to burn oil in your range extender if you have your heart set on that.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
#18
I see your point and will agree with it. It does make sense for inner city vehicles used for transportation, delivery, security, etc to use hydrogen. I think an electric vehicle for a large portion of the driving public makes much sense. There are applications where a Volt style will be ok, where a Prius style will be ok. Let’s develop multiple types that will help as many people as possible.
The old saying that “Variety is the spice of life” may still hold truth.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I’d like to see more than 50% of the battery pack’s 16kwh capacity be used…. that will give more EV only range right there.
Or use a 25% smaller pack but use 67% of it’s capacity to get the same range (67% of 12kwh would be 8kwh, same as 1st gen Volt’s have available)… that could reduce the cost of the battery pack (maybe by 25%?).
And yes, regarding the Hydrogen talk… even if they solved the dozen problems that have stood in it’s way for the past 20 years… including having a hydrogen filling station everywhere… do you really want to be duplicating the same problem you have today with gasoline… a single non-flexible fuel source where you are at the will of the big hydrogen producers (which is likely to be the same big oil/gas producers as hydrocarbons are the best source of hydrogen, it’s most economical to free hydrogen from natural gas (CH4), than from water (H2O).
There is no reason to believe that filling up with hydrogen to go a certain distance would be cheaper than gasoline. Especially as demand ramps up.
Battery EV’s are the ultimate flex fuel vehicle… electricity can be generated from so many sources. It’s even more likely that you’ll be producing your own electricity at home (from renewable sources such as solar pv or wind) than making hydrogen fuel cell vehicles economical. And the infrastructure is already in place to deliver and put that electrical power into your EV (like the Volt).
April 27th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
#20
Amen, amen….
April 27th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I would like to see a solar panel incorporated into the trunk, roof and hood so while I’m slaving away at work my car’s battery is charging itself. Same with the shopping mall or trip to relatives’ house or whatever.
Keyless entry should be standard as well!!!
April 27th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one…5 SEATS PLEASE!!!
If hydrogen fuel cells are so terrible I wonder why they are being pursued so doggedly by major automakers? Sure there could be a publicity/image aspect to it, but corporations also care a lot about money and they don’t like to throw money away on things. Unless they’re feeding off government funding for fuel cell research?
April 27th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
You could always just make your own hydrogen when the time comes.
Set up a windmill or solar panel and use that power to split water 24/7
(or whever its sunny/windy).
Then you’d just need a compressor to put it in your tank, and you’re done.
Very minimal investment for years of ‘free’ fuel.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Entergy Nuclear just reported an annual profit that’s up 73% in one year. They operate 11 nuclear reactors at $18 per megawatt-hour, 74% less than the cost for the most efficient combined cycle natural gas plants in use in California. If there were a competitive market for hydrogen, you can bet they’d find ways to pump it fast and cheap. Wouldn’t it be nice to see Entergy, Exelon, PG&E, Duke Energy go head to head with Chevron, Shell, BP, and more specifically Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran, Russia…
We need competition and energy diversity and throw everything and the kitchen sink at the problem. Not an academic debate that in the end fails to solve anything.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
CS Guy #10 says, “The other auto makers (the Toy company and Found On Road Dead?) seem to be providing nothing more than window dressing with hybrids that need ICE engine running the majority of the time and come out with great concept cars and blow a lot of smoke but in the end won’t change a thing when it comes to actually taking the foreign oil company gun out of our backs. Aren’t we all tired of their hands in our wallets month after month?”
Yup. They talk talk talk though because it seems that is what they do best. The Volt is totally different, and in my opinion, the first real answer to our fuel problem.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
# 23
I believe hydrogen may be better for the auto companies to continue their dealer’s service departments. Dealers make more on service than on selling new cars. Plus, oil companies (now morphing into “energy companies”) have a vested interest in providing hydrogen through their dealer network. Plus, hydrogen would be the death toll for all independent service station owners who would find it very difficult to fund hydrogen fueling stations. Of course, Uncle Sam will step in to help the large “energy companies” .
So, hydrogen offers a lot of promise in more ways than one. It offers the consumer a far worse choice. Hydrogen price hikes will take the place of gasoline/diesel price hikes in our future.
Electricity is a much better choice with as little dependence on an ICE as possible.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
OhmExcited (#25), I’d rather put solar PV on my house and tell ALL of them where to go.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Who is stopping you Tim? A solar PV on your house won’t power your range extender or a large vehicle, though. In fact it won’t power your car if you charge at night, only offset someone’s air conditioner being powered by coal or natural gas.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Solar panels on cars would be expensive, easily damaged and would look pretty bad. Having solar panels at home, work or in shopping malls make more sense. They would serve us better and reduce costs.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Match the Think car’s range and I’d be in heaven. 110 miles on a charge would be supreme. That would allow the GM Volt to cover 95% of the average numbers of commuters trip per day.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Fuel cells are stupid. I would rather see much progress being made on BEV range increase. This makes much more sense.
As Jeff M #20 says, “It’s even more likely that you’ll be producing your own electricity at home…..”
April 27th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Fuel cells? Now this sounds like a joke. What a let-down. Why not stick with what people are screaming for… a BEV version only for gen-2 with a long range. OPTIONS THAT MATTER, not pie in the sky fool cells.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
canehdian (regarding installing solar and/or wind to produce hydrogen)….
…. I do take it you are being sarcastic. We all know producing hydrogen from electrolysis (splitting water, aka H2O, using electricity) is a very energy inefficient way to store electrical energy. The hydrogen obtained from electrolysis I believe contains only 70% of the energy it took to produce it. Then as you mention, you have to highly compress it (it’s not like running your air compressor)… guess what, that takes energy too. And hydrogen as you know is the lightest and smallest of all the elements… ie. it’s hard to contain… it easily leaks out, and as it warms up while you have it stored it wants to “boil off”. And then look at how relatively energy inefficient a hydrogen fuel cell is at converting the hydrogen back into electricity (to drive the electric drive train of the vehicle)… sure it’s more energy efficient than a gasoline powered internal combustion engine/transmission, but pales when compared to a battery system.
It’s much more energy efficient to use that solar and/or wind home system to charge your EV’s batteries directly, power your home, and feed any excess back into the grid (running your electric meter backwards)….
… even if your system is solar power that only works during daylight, and you are charging your EV at night… it’s still more energy efficient (and hence cheaper) to charge your EV at night from the grid. Even better with solar if you have time of day metering where peak (daylight) power is billed higher than off-peak (night) power. In a way the grid can be compared to a battery for someone with excess solar energy. Very much more efficient than converting excess power to hydrogen and back again.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Agree with #18
In addition, think of a hydrogen distribution system of pipelines delivering hydrogen created from seawater at nuclear power stations or whatever near the coastline. And piggybacking off those supercooled pipelines would be high voltage electricity transmission lines made of superconducting materials to reduce electrical losses prevalent in the current high voltage AC transmission lines. (google it to see) This would save 7% of the electricity generated in this country, which we are currently losing.
PS, high temperature superconducting materials do exist but they are both far off in the future still and way more expensive. By using superconductors that need cooling it saves money and utilizes the hydrogen pipelines so costs are shared. It’s a win-win.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I would like to see an extended range. I would also like to mention that I think there’s a market for a solid but no-frills car. By solid I mean don’t make the interior (or any of the car) seem super cheap.
GM, here is my free idea for a commercial. Show file footage of some anti-US street rally where the people are chanting, burning an American flag, etc. You can put subtitles at the bottom of the screen that show that they’re chanting “death to America, death to America.” Keep rolling the footage but keep shrinking it down. As the footage shrinks a Volt driving along beecomes more and more visible as a backdrop. As the Volt pulls into the driveway of a nice suburban house the footage disappears into a pinpoint near the Volt’s charging port. The driver gets out to greet his wife. “How much gas did you use this week?” she asks. “None,” he says as he puts his arm around her and they walk inside.
99.9% of America would love you for it and the Volt would get all kinds of free publicity.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I filled up my Hyundai Elantra today. 87 octane, $51.00.
The Volt can’t get here fast enough.
#36, tiger alum, Good idea for the commercial.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Lyle, the Volt looks really cool in black.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Well that is just great. Volt 2.0 will be a $400,000 dollar fuel cell car that nobody can afford. And GM says the big heavy vehicles aren’t going to the volt drive train because of their size.
Like I said GM will squander this opportunity to be ahead of everyone else in the auto ball game. I just wonder why a volt drive train is good enough for a locomotive but not an SUV?
Hybrids are a stop gap measure until batteries or ultracaps are produced that can handle the load. And once they are you will have another 2 year wait because GM is dragging their feet.
If I controlled toyoto or honda or Ford I would have been shaking in my boots a year ago. But right now I would be thanking my lucky stars that GM is giving my company an opening to take the lead but dragging its feet in implementing the serial hybrid before everyone else can other than the low production Volt 1.0!
April 27th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
#24
“Very minimal investment for years of ‘free’ fuel.”
Are you kidding me. The car itself is going to cost more than your house and to generate hydrogen at you house is going to cost almost as much as the fuel cell car. I don’t think 95% of the people could afford an intrest only loan on all that crap.
hmmm… spend much more money on a system that is less efficent…. hmmm tough choice!
April 27th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Thrilled about the Volt..Can’t wait.. Just a crazy question do you believe that the oil companies will let this hit the market with all the politicians they have in their pockets and even future rep. presidents. And whats to stop the oil companies from dropping gas prices the day the volt hits the market..Think 6.599 a gallon one day and bam chevy volt released and 2.50 a gallon the public will go scrambling for suvs and trucks again..and GM will be there to supply..It will take a independent car company not selling suvs and trucks to get the car of tomorrow on the road..PR is great.
I’m interested in Zero pollution motors but also the volt the price is what will make my ultimate decision..love the site.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Jason D, #42. You bring up an interesting point. I don’t know if there is anything to stop the oil companies from doing what you suggest.
I do think the people are sick of the oil companies and I hope they are smart enough to realize the oil companies are only trying to scam us.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Jason D #42
That is a pessimistic view. And it is not just rep presidents in the pockets of big oil. It doesn’t get as much play, but the dems have been feeding at the same trough for years. Both parties are to blame for the mess we find ourselves in today. So, let’s stop blaming one side or the other. It’s easy to blame the oil companies, the auto companies and politics when it is us, the purchases, that have had control. We could have demanded more efficient vehicles, etc. But we did not.
Let’s do so now and in the future. Let’s hold both government and the auto companies feet to the fire until we get what we need to free us from the oil companies and the oil producers.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
The 57 Chevy was a simple car that looked good and could be modified. What might be cool for a 2nd generation Volt would be to open it up a little to third party developers. Allow for a bigger battery pack for extended range, but maybe make it a plug-in upgrade, so the geeks can take a stab at alternative forms of power, the hot rodders can add more power, and so on. If GM can make the Volt an open platform as much as a vehicle, they can get other companies doing research for them, and they also get the smart motivated people on their side.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
You can bet there will be plenty of third-party development for the Volt. It may take it a year or so after it is out.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Reply to “CS Guy” and wasting nuclear power and liquid hydrogen pipelines…
1st same problem with using nuclear power plants for electrolysis of sea water… why waste the electrical power on such an inefficient process? Much more energy efficient (and hence cheaper) to feed the power into the grid and charge battery EV’s than to electrolyze water, compress the hydrogen freed, pipe it***, transfer to (new) hydrogen delivery trucks, pump it into vehicles, and and then convert the hydrogen back into electricity to power the fuel cell EV.
*** regarding piping it… no existing pipeline can obviously be used for transporting hydrogen. H2 is just too small and light that it easily leaks. And because it needs to be highly compressed, almost like freezing it (as you said, super cooled), it also makes it that much more difficult as that can make lots of materials brittle.
ps: and while I’m pro-nuclear and live less than an hour away from a reactor myself (Seabrook), and do support building more reactors, I believe the price of nuclear only going up… not only are the cost of building them getting more expensive (as is any power plant due to esculating metal prices like copper, etc), but nuclear fuel is also skyrocketing due to demand and the fact that like fossil fuels, it’s a limited non-renewable resource. Hopefully new reactor designs will help extend the life of this fuel source (I think I heard that traditional reactor designs only consume single digit percentage of the potential energy in the fuel rods!).
April 27th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
“So what flavor of Linux would you like loaded into your Volt Mr. Paul?”
April 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
At $35K for Generation 1…$25K for Generation 2.
But a “blank check” program may make it impossible. At $35K…the Volt will probably be the most expensive Chevy car
April 27th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Hmmm,
They dont see a vehicle with twice the mass as appropriate for e-flex.
Fair enough, I guess we can fit tow bars if necesssary and use trailers.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Jeff, #49 says, “At $35K…the Volt will probably be the most expensive Chevy car”
Don’t forget the Corvette.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
For everyone that has heard the question…”What would you like your monthly payment to be?”
Some may not agree in the land of “easy credit, no down payment”, but the best feature of a car is a title without a lien..
April 27th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
I think that GM should run the PHEV/E-REV show like they have their entire product line. Introduce each vehicle one after the other with new models. Go through the entire product line and build each one up-to-date. Instead of even thinking about building a second generation Volt the way Toyota did the Prius, just build the first Volt right and keep it on the market on lightly modified for as many years as possible while focusing on new E-flex vehicles, and if possible introduce a new E-flexer model each year until there is an E-flex vehicle for each segment of the small vehicle lineup. If I had the money, I think I’d really enjoy to have an E-flex Solstice as a second car. But also make an E-flex Aveo equivalent, and Malibu, and Impala. Make E-flex a regular drivetrain option like SS is. And try to make them each the best possible so that way nobody notices that the 2020 Volt is coming out in LS, LT, and LTZ trims, and nobody realizes that it has already been on the market for 10 years. And maybe tie the trim selection to the AER, as well as other options, and make the LS a 20 mile AER, the LT a 40 mile, and the LTZ a 60 mile.
There is so much potential in using E-flex and plug-in 2-mode hybrid technology, along with flex-fuel engines, to change GM back into the powerhouse auto company it has historically been, and to restore the health of the American economy. Don’t miss the opportunity by getting ahead of yourselves. Just electrify the vehicle and integrate V2G as soon as possible. If a payback hybrid model of the car can be standardized, it will change auto consumer economics. With V2G, $35,000 for a Volt could really end up being the equivalent of $20,000 for a similar car. And if nothing else, the car can serve as a backup generator. But V2G capability is something I want to see in the first edition.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
V2G would be good. Anything to reduce total cost.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I just want the first edition to be extremely reliable and priced for the masses. And if they can make the car fly over traffic grid-lock, well, I for that too.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Rashiid,
Thats gen 5 or 6, I think.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
#47, the cost of nuclear will likely fall with the construction of simpler and more efficient nuclear plants. The cost of nuclear power is almost entirely made up of the cost of the original construction, the uranium itself is a tiny component. Uranium could go up in price 10-fold again, and the cost would go up only 1 cent per kwh.
I am firmly convinced that the best way to reduce carbon dioxide emissions is a combination of adoption of Volt technology and nuclear power world-wide. Have half of all cars electric and half of all power nuclear, I’d bet global warming and pollution cease to be a problem.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
42 Jason D
“”"”Just a crazy question do you believe that the oil companies will let this hit the market with all the politicians they have in their pockets and even future rep. presidents. And whats to stop the oil companies from dropping gas prices the day the volt hits the market..”"”"
1. Yes I believe the oil companies will let this hit the market. I don’t believe they can stop it personelly.
2. Gas prices are not earning refineries large margins. Refineries that were to drop their price of gasoline 40 cents a gallon would lose money. Since all companies that lose money end up out of business I doubt that they will cut their own throat buy cutting gas prices.
There are only two ways to lower gas prices. One: increase supply and opec isn’t having any part of that. Two: Lower demand. China and India and other countries are making that extremely unlikely.
That leave us with only a few options the best of which is to switch from using gas which is only about 30% efficient in an ICE to another form of energy, electric which is over 90% efficient.
Prius style hybrids on the road today ONLY take the gas and try to use more of the available energy from it by recapturing some of the energy that wasn’t wasted initially. Thats right the wasted 70% never get used even in a prius. Upside isn’t that high. If you think 50mpg is great then your expectations are extremely low compared to what we should be getting from our energy. No doubt brought low by dealing with gas engines your whole life and listening to their rheteric.
Whereas the serial hybrid or BEV both use no gas for the vast majority of the miles a person drives if not all of the miles. When a serial hybrid uses its gas motor it is at is least efficient. When a serial hybrid is at its least effiecient it can match the efficiency of a parallel hybrid when the parallel hybrid is at its most efficient.
A serial hybrid is just superior in ever way to a parallel hybrid. GM ALL your cars need to be serial hybrids are BEV’s. It is a no brainer that GM just can’t seem to grasp.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
V2G is something that I will never do. You stand to gain what??? 100 dollars a year maybe??? At what cost. Shortening the life of your cas battery and leaving the potential of having to throw away all those gains because you use the ICE engine prematurely because the battery was fully charged when you needed to leave the house.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
#57 Dan
Just for your information, you might want to look into this if you are going to type pronuclear comments. Nuclear waste can be destroyed so that it isn’t radio active anymore. Something to do with plasma. I don’t know how much it cost just that it is possible and that existing laws prohibit its use because they are old laws dealing with the handling of the waste before this technology was available. This process is not a new development either.
April 27th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I hope we have alternate means of producing some or all of our home’s power needs with the excess being sent back into the grid. A credit on our electrical bills will go a long way to off-set other costs. But I know, you have to overcome initial cost before considering additional savings. But, we have to start somewhere, don’t we?
April 27th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Benefits of the Chevy Volt:
1.) You are not tied to gas - fuel cost won’t change daily, you can actually budget your daily commute.
2.) You and your kids won’t breath in the hidden CO2 that is in your car and you don’t know it. Its low levels but still does some damage.
3.) It will be much cheaper to fuel, at least $10,000 savings over 5 years, due to buying electricity over gasoline
4.) Less maintanence costs, very few oil changes, brake changes, transmission flushes, air filters and more.
5.) 100% torque available at 0rpms
6.) Stealthy - quiet car
7.) More customization will be available because electronics and software will be running the car. A big boost to the tech sector.
8.) Looks great - although we haven’t seen the final version yet.
9.) Range extender
10.) Priced much cheaper than comparable electric cars
11.) You now have the option to create your own power using solar, wind etc. You have more freedom, not relying on others.
Cons of a Chevy Volt
1.) Limited electric range
2.) Great for daily driver but not for being a work vechile where a larger vechile might be needed
3.) Limited availability at first - still not confirmed
4.) No engine reving sound
April 27th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
The major thing I hope generation 2 has is 5 seats instead of 4 seats. I can’t get the first generation because I have 3 kids. So there isn’t enough room in the 1st generation. I need the second generation to have a total of 5 seats in it for me to purchase it.
April 27th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
More performance! (5,6,7 sec. 0-60)
5 seats (just make a break in the ‘T’ where the 3rd passenger’s feet go)
Charge us whatever, but give us options. Put this tech in the 2010/11 Cadillac CTS suitably dressed. Imagine the CTS-eV with magnetic ride control…
You think people with money don’t want oil-independence?
Thanks,
Ken
April 27th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
For the next generation Volt, aim for both the low and high markets:
High Market: Large sedan/crossover version. This version would not only hit the upscale markets, but could replace the limos and taxicabs in major cities. The big plus here is that most of these cards spend a lot of their time idling (waiting for passenger pickups). A Volt version of one of these could wait at a charging station, filling up on electricity and keeping the air conditioning running, and still use zero fuel until a ride took it more than 40 miles away. These cars typically drive 60K-80K city miles/year, so a Volt version of one of these would be a big winner once GM has a better understanding of battery life.
Low Market: Small compact/third-world version. Build a Volt the size of a Chevy Aveo, smaller range (8KWH battery), smaller ICE (1-cylinder or 2-cylinder diesel), and vehicle-to-grid capability. Not only would this be a good city car for US markets, but also would be a big hit for third-world markets where the gasoline infrastructure hasn’t been established yet. In addition to providing local electricity, these could also be charged on solar or wind power (since many of these countries don’t even have an electrical infrastructure yet). Right now, third world countries are increasing their carbon emissions faster than first-world countries are decreasing them. With over 1 billion car sales projected in the next 25 years in the third world, a non-petroleum car would get these countries started with a minimum of cost and oil consumption.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
#17 Grizzly Yes, you are right that perfecting all the little bumps found with experience in Gen 1 in highest priority for Gen 2. Gen 1 will finds buyers on novelty. Gen 2 must be a polished product.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Research suggests that V2G would net EREV and PHEV owners about $1500 per year. If that’s accurate, then that means $7500 in five years income from plugging in your car, and $15000 if your car lasts ten years with satisfactory remaining battery life. So that will more than make up for debt servicing costs. You’ll also save a few hundred dollars on a generator (if you were planning on buying one), as well as whatever tax incentives or subsidies will be available, probable reduction on the cost of electricity, and of course gas savings.
I’m not saying that I think everyone should use V2G, especially seeing as the consensus by everyone is that there a lot of unknowns regarding doing it, but at the same time I’m saying that I’d like for the Gen-1 Volt to be V2G-ready and that I’ll volunteer my vehicle when properly compensated for it.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
These are the cars: These’s are the car’s that are going to use the E-Flex Drive System First Generation: 2009-2010 Saturn FlexTreme E-Flex Plug-in Drive System, 2009-2010 Saab 9-1x E-Flex Plug-In- Drive System, 2009-2010 Chevrolet Volt E-Flex Plug-Dive System, 2010 Cadillac Evoq E-Flex Plug-in-Dive System, 5th Generation Hydrogen Fuel Cells.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
When I get in my Volt, I’d like it to be ready to go; no ice or frost on the windows and a comfy temperature. Perhaps a built-in, progammable timer could start the defroster and/or HVAC.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
I would like generation 2 to be made of carbon fiber. Less weight equates to less energy.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Speedy,
Whoa, hold on a minute.
I believe the Saturn is a dual mode hybrid with a nine mile electric range.
Presumeably the others are as well. However the Volt has a 40 mile electric range and is a serial mode vehicle.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Carbon fiber is also one of the more expensive materials out there…
April 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
I agree, the Volt Gen 1 should be V2G ready. I live in Florida and could really have used it, during the hurricanes, when we can lose power for a week or two. Now back to Hydrogen. GM keeps bringing this up and we are so wraped up in the battery development, we have not given this any real consideration. What if there were a breakthrough on the horizon, where hydrogen could be split from water on board the car, as you are driving along? Use it as you make it, with no storage or infrastructure problems. This would be a real “game changer”. I, for one, do not think we have been giving GM, and the other car companys that continue working on this, enough credit.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
“I’m not saying that I think everyone should use V2G, especially seeing as the consensus by everyone is that there a lot of unknowns regarding doing it, but at the same time I’m saying that I’d like for the Gen-1 Volt to be V2G-ready and that I’ll volunteer my vehicle when properly compensated for it.”
Absolutely, I agree! This has been one of my recommendations too. Fortunately, it shouldn’t be too difficult to retrofit but what about warranty? For me and many others, V2House for power outages is a much bigger side benefit than a few hundred dollars.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
>> When a serial hybrid is at its least effiecient it can match the efficiency of a
>> parallel hybrid when the parallel hybrid is at its most efficient.
66.2 MPG average from the plug-in Prius.
http://www.google.org/recharge
April 27th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
How about a built-in solar panel in the roof to trickle charge the battery while it sits in the parking lot!
April 27th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
The prius is not a plug in yet. I am referring to what is on the market now. And you post of 66.2mpg makes my point. Wupity doo the new prius gets less than the volt by about 100 mpg.
The only way to make parallel technology get many more miles per gallon than the current prius’s that are on the road is to add battery capacity so that the prius can operate with electric assist more frequently and into the future use all electric more frequently. As battery technology gets better and better the prius will get better and better mpg but the volt will be miles ahead and have to use equivelant mpg since gas will never be used by many. The prius isn’t anywhere close to being able to say that.
66 sucks. Give me 150!!!
April 27th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
For the second gen Volt, focus on trimming costs.
Consider replacing the ICE Genset with a replaceable battery like project better place. Then I can hiphop all over the place without ever touching gas.
While we are at it Make the (engine compartment) specs open source so 3rd parties can place the latest technology at owners preference.
Personally I don’t see fuel Cells EVER working in a car, just not efficient enough, & thanks to the 2nd law of thermodynamics never will be!
Must have options to extend EV range.
Oh and 5 seats.
Actually, I really need a 7 seater van. Put two T batteries in it, or a H design! 40kWh useable would do me.
Lets face it, the oil companies need the money, all the expense they are going to building wind farms and CSP arrays
#60
Yes, the radioactive waste can be destroyed, but, you need to build a high temp reactor just to do it! Way cheaper to leave it lying around for a few hundred years.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Regarding carbon fiber, one of the things GM found out with their extensive simulation is that aero plays a much bigger part than mass. Mass is important, but with regenerative braking the greater mass provides more regen. So reducing mass is not necessarily the biggest priority if that reduction comes at a big cost.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
We’ve heard a lot about the battery in the Volt, but I would like to hear more about the electric motor and GM’s plans for improving it in the future. Who is developing it? What is the goal? Why don’t they make it more powerful, when as Tesla showed, the more powerful you make it the more efficient it becomes.
It would be pretty easy to plop in a high performance motor 100 pound motor and make the Volt a muscle car. I see lots of opportunities for future teenage tinkerers.
April 27th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
“Zoltek, Hexcel and other carbon-fiber makers already are ramping up production to meet an anticipated surge in demand. But the mainstreaming of carbon fiber as a car-building material depends on prices coming down, and that can only occur with mass-production, said Brian Yerger, an alternative energy analyst at Jesup & Lamont Securities Corp.”
Source:
http://www.zoltek.com/aboutus/news/85/
April 27th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Yep 80 OhmExcited more info on the aspects of the car other than the battery would be nice. I mean how many gears.. manual vs auto etc etc etc. Specs on the motor etc etc etc.
Actually right now what I am really looking forward to is hearing about some other car maker come out with their own serial hybrid. Not as many may think just to spite GM but instead to light a fire under them. More competition is only going to be better for the consumer.