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	<title>Comments on: GM Considering a Pure Electric Chevy Volt Without a Range Extender</title>
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	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:07:32 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Wayne P. Bishop</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-109536</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne P. Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-109536</guid>
		<description>I have an idea / invention that would make an All Electric vehicle&#039;s propulsion system so efficient that it would be able to get the 200+ mile range that everyone has been looking for without any larger battery then is presently in the Volt.
If anyone has any suggestions as to who or where I can present this concept please let me ( wbishop321@comcast.net ) know so that it may be evaluated and if they find it to be as exciting an idea as I believe it to be then we can move forward quickly with prototyping, testing and implementing to make the True All Electric Vehicle finally a reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an idea / invention that would make an All Electric vehicle&#8217;s propulsion system so efficient that it would be able to get the 200+ mile range that everyone has been looking for without any larger battery then is presently in the Volt.<br />
If anyone has any suggestions as to who or where I can present this concept please let me ( <a href="mailto:wbishop321@comcast.net">wbishop321@comcast.net</a> ) know so that it may be evaluated and if they find it to be as exciting an idea as I believe it to be then we can move forward quickly with prototyping, testing and implementing to make the True All Electric Vehicle finally a reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Herm</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-71069</link>
		<dc:creator>Herm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-71069</guid>
		<description>The Volt motor is built-in to the &quot;trans-axle&quot; looking thing, with also the generator and the half-shafts going to the front wheels.. if you remove the ICE you are still left with a substantial piece of equipment, granted the generator, ICE, radiator and gas tank would be gone.. lots of weight savings, no idea on cost savings.

If the Volt used in-wheel motors then removing the ICE would leave a huge empty compartment.. a large battery pack could be placed there to replace the weight of the ICE. Disadvantage is cost, you would need TWO motors and two power controllers (vs. one of each for the standard Volt).. Unsprung weight is no big deal, in-wheel motors can come very close in weight to standard equipment.

GM would benefit from mass production of 60kw in-wheel motors and motor controllers (they would build 2 each for each Volt),  they can also be used in other cars with very little (to none) redesign.. and dont forget they can also be used to make electric 4wd vehicles with no efficiency penalties. You would also increase redundancy and reliabilty by having extra motors/controllers.

For long range travel just attach a small trailer with a generator (you could easily make one), maybe buy one or just rent it for the weekend.. obviously it could also serve to provide backup power. I already have a 12kVA generator, a small $200 trailer would carry it. Diesel generators are also available.

The present battery with no ICE would be perfect for me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Volt motor is built-in to the &#8220;trans-axle&#8221; looking thing, with also the generator and the half-shafts going to the front wheels.. if you remove the ICE you are still left with a substantial piece of equipment, granted the generator, ICE, radiator and gas tank would be gone.. lots of weight savings, no idea on cost savings.</p>
<p>If the Volt used in-wheel motors then removing the ICE would leave a huge empty compartment.. a large battery pack could be placed there to replace the weight of the ICE. Disadvantage is cost, you would need TWO motors and two power controllers (vs. one of each for the standard Volt).. Unsprung weight is no big deal, in-wheel motors can come very close in weight to standard equipment.</p>
<p>GM would benefit from mass production of 60kw in-wheel motors and motor controllers (they would build 2 each for each Volt),  they can also be used in other cars with very little (to none) redesign.. and dont forget they can also be used to make electric 4wd vehicles with no efficiency penalties. You would also increase redundancy and reliabilty by having extra motors/controllers.</p>
<p>For long range travel just attach a small trailer with a generator (you could easily make one), maybe buy one or just rent it for the weekend.. obviously it could also serve to provide backup power. I already have a 12kVA generator, a small $200 trailer would carry it. Diesel generators are also available.</p>
<p>The present battery with no ICE would be perfect for me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Marshall</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-39070</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-39070</guid>
		<description>An ICE could be a trunk mounted or trailer mounted option along with more batteries. To help the feeble hearted with the idea of a trailer for long trips, the trailer could be restricted in freedom of movement so that you essentially have a six wheeled vehicle. You could even rent the trailer when needed for long trips or use it for back-up home power. Just add an inverter. Until the battery packs get a lot cheaper, the trailer option is a good bet. If GM doesn&#039;t do it, guess who will? That&#039;s why markets work - you cannot repress innovation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An ICE could be a trunk mounted or trailer mounted option along with more batteries. To help the feeble hearted with the idea of a trailer for long trips, the trailer could be restricted in freedom of movement so that you essentially have a six wheeled vehicle. You could even rent the trailer when needed for long trips or use it for back-up home power. Just add an inverter. Until the battery packs get a lot cheaper, the trailer option is a good bet. If GM doesn&#8217;t do it, guess who will? That&#8217;s why markets work &#8211; you cannot repress innovation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave G</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-39056</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 04:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-39056</guid>
		<description>I would never buy an EV without an ICE range extender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would never buy an EV without an ICE range extender.</p>
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		<title>By: noel park</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38891</link>
		<dc:creator>noel park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38891</guid>
		<description>The more i think about this the better I like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more i think about this the better I like it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Hastrup - DENMARK</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38836</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Hastrup - DENMARK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38836</guid>
		<description>Would love a pure EV as cartax would be zero(VAT 25%) here in Denmark until 2013 - otherwise 25% VAT and on top of that 180% cartax !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would love a pure EV as cartax would be zero(VAT 25%) here in Denmark until 2013 &#8211; otherwise 25% VAT and on top of that 180% cartax !!</p>
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		<title>By: noel park</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38726</link>
		<dc:creator>noel park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38726</guid>
		<description>DO IT!  I&#039;LL TAKE ONE OF EACH! 

We only need one car for longer trips.  If I cannot schedule around that, I give up.  Especially if doing away with all of the range extender stuff will allow more battery capacity and electric range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DO IT!  I&#8217;LL TAKE ONE OF EACH! </p>
<p>We only need one car for longer trips.  If I cannot schedule around that, I give up.  Especially if doing away with all of the range extender stuff will allow more battery capacity and electric range.</p>
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		<title>By: Nixon</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38723</link>
		<dc:creator>Nixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38723</guid>
		<description>There needs to be a scale for people where they can rank their own personal range anxiety.  There are people who have built BEV home conversions driving around today with absolutely no range anxiety with less than 20 miles of range.  Other folks want 500 miles.

Here&#039;s where I&#039;m at on a 0-10 scale of anxiety:

Less than 40 miles == are you crazy?  AAA on speed dial.  Anxiety is at 10.
40-125 miles == I&#039;ll always be thinking about my range everywhere I go.  Anxiety is at 7.
125-200 miles == As long as I plug it in religiously I&#039;m fine.  Anxiety is 3.
200-500 miles == I&#039;ll plug it in when it is convenient to me, but no big road trips.  Anxiety is at 2.
500-2000 miles == even big road trip are possible with a little planning.  Anxiety is at 1.
2000+ miles == what the heck is this &quot;fill up&quot; thing you guys used to talk about?  &quot;dial&quot; a phone?  What&#039;s to dial, it&#039;s got buttons?  8-track tape?  Gee, you&#039;re funny grandpa!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There needs to be a scale for people where they can rank their own personal range anxiety.  There are people who have built BEV home conversions driving around today with absolutely no range anxiety with less than 20 miles of range.  Other folks want 500 miles.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at on a 0-10 scale of anxiety:</p>
<p>Less than 40 miles == are you crazy?  AAA on speed dial.  Anxiety is at 10.<br />
40-125 miles == I&#8217;ll always be thinking about my range everywhere I go.  Anxiety is at 7.<br />
125-200 miles == As long as I plug it in religiously I&#8217;m fine.  Anxiety is 3.<br />
200-500 miles == I&#8217;ll plug it in when it is convenient to me, but no big road trips.  Anxiety is at 2.<br />
500-2000 miles == even big road trip are possible with a little planning.  Anxiety is at 1.<br />
2000+ miles == what the heck is this &#8220;fill up&#8221; thing you guys used to talk about?  &#8220;dial&#8221; a phone?  What&#8217;s to dial, it&#8217;s got buttons?  8-track tape?  Gee, you&#8217;re funny grandpa!</p>
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		<title>By: Canuck</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38716</link>
		<dc:creator>Canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38716</guid>
		<description>I think this version without ICE - call it Volt Mini - makes perfect sense. It would compete with the Th1nk car.

Without ICE they remove both weight and cost. In fact, they would go further. They could remove other features that are not essential for a limited range car. They could even give up some performance with smaller electric motors - again reduce weight and costs.

Thus you would end up with a smaller/cheaper electric version without range extension. However, due to weight reductions it would likely get another 5-10 miles using the existing 16 kWh pack. So it may go up to 50 miles.

As for SOC, I would start visual (big red letters) and audio (annoying alarm) warnings near the min 40% SOC. Below this minimum SOC limit I would have the car enter a minimum power mode where max speed is reduced, all the alarams intensify and allow operation until 20% SOC. That way you have a chance to find some place to stop and plugin. So in emergency you may get yet another 10 miles or so.

In any case, the standard 50 miles range would be perfect for all sorts of local trips. I would buy such a car even though I may not drive it to work. It would still be perfect for the many local trips we make. If I can avoid gasoline for local trips it would still be worth it.

So even Volt Mini is not a general purpose car that can go anywhere (limited range) I think there is still a very big market for it. After all, I often see questions on the oil site about cars that travel less than 5K  for entire year. And what about that study about most people doing short trips.

Who knows. If gas becomes expensive enough I may end up driving Volt Mini to train/bus station and using public transport for longer tips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this version without ICE &#8211; call it Volt Mini &#8211; makes perfect sense. It would compete with the Th1nk car.</p>
<p>Without ICE they remove both weight and cost. In fact, they would go further. They could remove other features that are not essential for a limited range car. They could even give up some performance with smaller electric motors &#8211; again reduce weight and costs.</p>
<p>Thus you would end up with a smaller/cheaper electric version without range extension. However, due to weight reductions it would likely get another 5-10 miles using the existing 16 kWh pack. So it may go up to 50 miles.</p>
<p>As for SOC, I would start visual (big red letters) and audio (annoying alarm) warnings near the min 40% SOC. Below this minimum SOC limit I would have the car enter a minimum power mode where max speed is reduced, all the alarams intensify and allow operation until 20% SOC. That way you have a chance to find some place to stop and plugin. So in emergency you may get yet another 10 miles or so.</p>
<p>In any case, the standard 50 miles range would be perfect for all sorts of local trips. I would buy such a car even though I may not drive it to work. It would still be perfect for the many local trips we make. If I can avoid gasoline for local trips it would still be worth it.</p>
<p>So even Volt Mini is not a general purpose car that can go anywhere (limited range) I think there is still a very big market for it. After all, I often see questions on the oil site about cars that travel less than 5K  for entire year. And what about that study about most people doing short trips.</p>
<p>Who knows. If gas becomes expensive enough I may end up driving Volt Mini to train/bus station and using public transport for longer tips.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Marshall</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38618</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/26/gm-considering-a-pure-electric-chevy-volt-without-a-range-extender/#comment-38618</guid>
		<description>NorthernPiker,

Yes, the open platform, IBM spawned the PC industry with the published electrical bus, form factor specs and OS which eventually became the &#039;ISA&#039; bus and MSDOS, then blew it by introducing the closed PS/2 bus and OS/2 in an effort to get back control.  Apple used a closed architecture resulting in more reliability but more expense and longer development.  A group of leading manufacturers eventually got together and implemented the standards that we all benefit from today ... and then there&#039;s Microsoft.

GM has the potential to establish an open car architecture that takes advantage of what IBM, Apple, and Microsoft did for personal computers.  GM could provide a certification process for System Integrators that maintains warranties and dealer relationships.  Actually, the process GM is going through right now for Li-ion batteries is encouraging, just needs to be extended and ongoing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NorthernPiker,</p>
<p>Yes, the open platform, IBM spawned the PC industry with the published electrical bus, form factor specs and OS which eventually became the &#8216;ISA&#8217; bus and MSDOS, then blew it by introducing the closed PS/2 bus and OS/2 in an effort to get back control.  Apple used a closed architecture resulting in more reliability but more expense and longer development.  A group of leading manufacturers eventually got together and implemented the standards that we all benefit from today &#8230; and then there&#8217;s Microsoft.</p>
<p>GM has the potential to establish an open car architecture that takes advantage of what IBM, Apple, and Microsoft did for personal computers.  GM could provide a certification process for System Integrators that maintains warranties and dealer relationships.  Actually, the process GM is going through right now for Li-ion batteries is encouraging, just needs to be extended and ongoing&#8230;</p>
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