The Wall Street Journal has decided to redeem itself after the recent illogical Volt editorial , and has now published an interview with GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz.
Reporter John Stoll writes that Lutz has "growing confidence" the Volt will indeed be produced in 30 months. Lutz recognizes that the Volt is a "must-win" project for GM. He is quoted as saying, "At this point, we don’t know how important the Volt is going to be," and that one reason for the project is to "eliminate this perception of GM as the environmental antichrist."
Lutz acknowledges that producing 100,000 Volts getting more than 100 mpg each will go along way to helping GM meet future CAFE regulations and even indicates E-Flex technology could be put into a small pick-up truck should it be necessary (why wouldn’t it?)
Source (Wall Street Journal )
This entry was posted on Friday, April 25th, 2008 at 11:16 am and is filed under Timeline. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Apr 25th, 2008 (11:23 am)Next move is for the E-Flex colorado and silverado!!
Apr 25th, 2008 (11:24 am)Now if he would only be that confident that it would cost below $30k!
Apr 25th, 2008 (11:38 am)I said this yesterday, an E-Flex pickup or small SUV would be just a mamouth win for GM. I hope they are spending as much on that setup as they are on the Volt right now.
It is good to here Lutz is growing more confident with the compressed time frames. I would think that indicates things are going well.
My wife paid over $4 for gas yesterday for the first time (in MD). The Volt can’t get here fast enough.
Apr 25th, 2008 (11:47 am)I have said it plenty of times here already. I will buy a e-flex small pickup truck tomorrow to go with my wife’s Volt. Sold Bob!
For the record. I have never seen GM as the “environmental antichrist”. What I have seen, as I think Mr. Lutz himself has acknowledged more than once in his comments about hybrid technology, is dumb management which couldn’t see its own enlightened self interest in providing the products which the market would demand when gasoline prices did what they inevitably would do.
The fact that they have offered such products in Europe for years makes it all the more difficult to understand. Maybe the idiotic actions of our own government, which have had so much to do with the current runup in oil prices, caught them a bit flat footed. Still, the handwriting has been on the wall for quite awhile.
I have been reading Kevin Phillips’ latest effort, “Bad Money”, which may have something to do with my feeling a bit testy about this issue this morning. I highly recommend it, if you can stand to read it, which I am having difficulty doing myself.
As to the spin connotations of GM executives mouthing labels like “environmental antichrist”, I will leave that comment for later.
Apr 25th, 2008 (11:54 am)Antichrist? Never.
One of the multi-headed hydra of vehicles-fuels-urban sprawl- pollution?
You make the call.
But like I said in a previous post, GM made a decision to get out of that situation, and the Volt is their bid to do it. I hope they achieve it.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:00 pm)Could it be that an electric vehicle might be easier to engineer.
Don’t get me wrong, i’m sure it’s been a challenge.
Will eFlex be fitted for commercial pannel vans?
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:04 pm)The only thing that I object to that Mr. Lutz said was this, “At the moment, Mr. Lutz is only committing to employ the Volt’s lithium-ion technology in a compact car, but he said the technology could easily be placed in a “small pickup truck” if fuel-economy issues were to require it.”
I realize he said they are not committed to it, but I truly believe E-Flex should be in every vehicle they make.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:09 pm)Noel, #4, you said, “For the record. I have never seen GM as the “environmental antichrist”.”
I never have seen them this way neither. However I have seen them as a dumb company making junk that no one wants to buy.
I have since made a turn around in that thinking and hope to buy a Volt at an affordable price. Prior to being a very proud member of GM-VOLT.com, I was well established in the 60% of new car buyers that wouldn’t even consider buying an American car. I feel very differently now. The Volt is on my very short list of new cars to buy. Actually, it is the ONLY car on my list.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:11 pm)Rashiid #6:
I would bet big money they have all kinds of plans drawn up for using the chassis in just about everthing; maybe not the Vette or the full size pickups.
They have a gold mine here, particularly as gas just keeps going up almost daily. I’m sure they know that. I hope they know that.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:13 pm)Rashid,
I think that when Bob said “The electrification of the automobile is inevitable.”, he was referring to all of them. Not just the volt.
It is the only logical choice going forward. Five years ago, a car such as the Volt would not have been possible. Five years from now, it will be not only possible, but better than traditional autos.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:14 pm)The issue with creating E-Flex in large vehicles is that it will require larger batteries to provide the same 40 mile on battery only range.
GM has good plan to first release E-Flex on compact cars and get the volume up to drop the battery cost. As the battery cost go down then we hopefully will see E-Flex SUV and small trucks and full size cars (like E-Flex Malibu). Today they could create a E-Flex
small pickup and what charge $70K or something like it.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:14 pm)30 months . . . That is October 2010!!
I’m Ready!!
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:15 pm)1. Take the Hydrogen Equinox…..check
2. Rip out Hydrogen fuel cell….check
3. Put in E-Flex…..check
4. Make enough to fund a hostile takeover of Toyota…..PRICELESS!
If GM could make the VOLT for 25-30k and an Equinox for 28-33k on E-FLEX they could easily sell over 1 million vehicles a year almost right away.
Thats assuming they have production capacity of course….
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:15 pm)Anyone with open eyes can see that GM has played a large role in hurting our environmnt. Sure, the other companies have as well. But we must not forget this. There is no need to sugar coat it.
There are cars in Europe as we speak that are more than doubling any MPG numbers we are getting here.
The argument exists that ” We won’t buy a small car here ”
My argument to that? Give me one worth buying and watch how fast I scoop it up. The Chevy Optra is hardly a good buy. The MPG is laughable.
As negative as this coment sounds, the sheer amount of HOPE gm is giving me right now with the Volt is amazing. I check for updates every single day now.
GM, I am rooting for you. Bring something to table that will revolutionize the planet.
Anxiously awaiting,
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:27 pm)Everybody’s rooting for the success of the Volt power train, but I wonder about the body style. It seems designed to appeal to testosterone-crazed speed freaks, whereas I think the initial buyers are likely to be like Prius drivers: practical, get-from-point-A-to-point-B-reliably-and-cheaply, environmentally conscious types.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:30 pm)GM and Ford have made the best SUV/Trucks on the road for a very very long time. If people want to buy SUVs that is their right and it is not GMs fault for producing the vehicles people want to buy. They are a company not an environmental group. If Toyota or any other manufacturer made a truck half as good as the F150, silverado, escalade, yukon, etc. a lot would be different. Heck, Toyota can even figure out how to keep a tail gate from breaking off!
People in Europe have had to pay much higher prices for fuel for a long time. It will take time for the American public to demand smaller and diesel fueled cars. As a country, we are on our way but it wont happen overnight.
Frankly, very few manufacturers make a desirable small car in the US. I drive a Chevy Cobalt because I drive about 100miles a day. I get about 33 highway but overall the vehicle is bland. The other options such as the civic, corolla, yaris, fit, versa, sentra, focus, caliber are all yawn mobiles and have no soul whatsoever. They are only appliances.
I am like you and want a good small car to complement my weekend V8. However there isn’t much out there in that segment. I pray for some of those small Opels GM sells in Europe. GM needs to bring over the Opel Corsa, refresh the Cobalt, built the Beat or Groove and bring out an alpha Cadillac immediately.
Apr 25th, 2008 (12:40 pm)It is somewhat off the mark to describe the earlier opinion column (by Holman Jenkins) in the WSJ as an “editorial”. Opinion columnists by definition write their own opinions.
Though the column gives plus and minus aspects of Volt development, all in colorful language, that conclusion is a compliment. Jenkins column concluded “GM has shown itself pretty compos mentis so far in its epochal turnaround, so we will continue to assume it hasn’t taken leave of its senses in developing the Volt.”
The WSJ has had 4 pieces on the Volt in April. That’s strong interest and reflects their view of its importance.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:27 pm)#5 karl:
Yeah, a commercial panel van works for me too. Even something the size of an HHR, with a bit more contemporary styling. Can anyone say Mazda 5?
#12 kushwail:
That works too.
I think that business owners are going to hit that “tipping point” pretty quick, if they haven’t already. I know I have. I use about 1000 gallons a year in my S-10, An e-flex equivalent could save me enough money to pay for itself. Businesses are potentially a larger market, because they run up so many more miles. Never mind all of the side benefits. Bring it on.
I said once that I might buy a Volt, rip out the hatch, and replace it with a wood pickup bed like something out of the Grapes of Wrath or the Beverly Hillbillies.
Great comments guys. You are going from strength to strength.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:28 pm)Knowledgeable people ( Jeff Rubin, chief strategist and chief economist at CIBC World Markets in Toronto) are predicting gas prices will double by 2012. A $40k Volt makes a lot of sense at that point.
It’s clear that the world is running out of oil when we are digging up oil sands in Alberta and burning enough natural gas to heat 3 million homes in order to process it and cuasing an ecological disaster at the same time.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:33 pm)ghost #13:
We do not have many small diesel powered cars here in the US because the perception of the noisy, smelly, dirty smoke belching models from the mid-70′s killed them with the buyers. Plus, gas was still cheap here, until recently, so buyers were not interested.
And it was only in 2006 that the new ultra low sulpher diesel fuel was mandated to be producedin the USA.
With the new “cleaner” diesels now being developed, I expect to see lots of diesel models being introduced for the 2009 & 2010 model years from all the manufacturers.
But I will hope that I can still be in line for a Gen-1 Volt!!!!!
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:37 pm)@17 Noel Park…
>> I said once that I might buy a Volt, rip out the hatch, and replace it
>> with a wood pickup bed like something out of the Grapes of Wrath
>> or the Beverly Hillbillies.
That would (or should I say “wood”) be pretty retro-cool, but of course it’d doubtlessly kill the aerodynamics. Oh, the humanity!
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:39 pm)If I recall correctly, Mr. Lutz used to be 97.5 percent confident. With this latest announcement, he didn’t state how much more confident he was. I’m waiting for him to be greater than 100 percent confident, which means we’ll see Volts before the 2010 timeline.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:52 pm)ksuhwail #15 – good point
How did GM build up its $$$Billions$$$ of cash reserves? Building what people wanted to buy. And until recently enough people still wanted the buy $50,000+ SUV and etc, which by the way 1 SUV earned more profit than several cavaliers or colbalts. They laughed at Toyota and etc. who could sell more cars than GM but make less money per car. But Quality and economics of scale have been hurting GM for a years now. But environmentally, somehow people often forget that even Toyota built the Tundra – not exactly a green machine…
I hope that, finally GM, has learned how to be profitable selling smaller cars and how to make quailty cars that sell, Malibu lovers unite…
They built what would sell burning $2 gas. Now they are building what will sell burning $5 gas.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:53 pm)#20 Mike-o-Matic:
My hope is that Mr. Lutz will be so terrified of the possible spectacle of Noel driving all over SoCal looking like Jed Clampett in my butchered up Volt that he will immediately order the building of an E-flex small truck or van.
It can happen Bob. You have been warned.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:55 pm)GM has been, is and will be a great American company. It will be a bigger success if they produce the Volt and it does as much or more than they claim.
I, for one, along with the vast majority of these people on this site wish them much luck and God’s speed.
Thanks to one and all of you….
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:56 pm)#18 BigB
Even if gas prices double by 2012, my salary won’t. I can only pay so much.
Basing the Volt price on the cost of gas seems irrelevant for a vehicle that, in my case, doesn’t require gas. GM may as well base it on the price of bread or some other nearly unrelated index. If I can buy a relatively inexpensive BEV that meets my needs, I’ll do that before I buy an expensive Volt.
Hopefully prices will be based on GM’s costs plus a decent, but not obscene, profit margin (plus government subsidies?). Hopefully there will be sufficient competition to keep GM’s pricing reasonable.
Apr 25th, 2008 (1:58 pm)GM is good,
GM is great,
please GM,
sell a Volt in my state.
Amen.
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:02 pm)Just for the record I am a testosterone-crazed speed freak and awaiting my chevy volt. If I wanted a prius I would have already bought one but I’m waiting for the volt because I can’t picture myself in one of those electric dork boxes and the prius comes close. Of course If I needed a car right now then it might be a prius because I want to give the gas companies the finger. I’m really sick of it. Pollution I breath, money I spend, old technology, giving money to conflict, and not getting full torque at 0 rpms. Go Chevy!
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:06 pm)But more on topic than my other post…
God Bless America and God Bless GM. I pray that the Volt, and more importantly the E-Flex power train, will be GM’s version of the model T.
Eventually i believe that the E-Flex becomes just E. But until that day the Volt will drive Americans. We can both “See the USA in a Chevrolet” and save the USA too.
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:35 pm)The further and further into this process GM gets the more and more I am convinced they just don’t get it.
Does any higher up at GM REALIZE that the volt will get better gas milage WITHOUT an battery any bigger than what is already in the car you drive today!
IT’S THE DRIVE TRAIN STUPID!!!
GM is sitting on a gold mine with the rev serial design they are implementing in the volt. And they are going to goof it up by dragging their feet on distributing that system throughout ALL GM vehicles.
Can anyone give ONE reason why GM (and toyota and honda and ford) shouldn’t move as fast as possilbe to convert ALL vehicles to the serial design.
How loud does one have to scream this to get the idiots at ALL of the car manufacturing companies to hear… and realize that their is a better why to power cars than directly with an ICE engine.
The longer this goes on the more I am convinced the next truck I buy will be a serial hybrid (rev) made by toyota even after they should have been beaten to the punch by GM.
I don’t give a crap who makes it. Give me my inexpensive serial hybrid (rev) now! The sooner the better.
I just bet in a few years the headlines will all be about how GM was first to introduce the volt style drive train but was overtaken by the competition as the competition implemented their own rev across all product lines sooner.
GM STILL somehow doesn’t get it!
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:38 pm)#24 N Riley & #28 Cantjam:
Amen. Preach on brothers.
BTW, I glanced at the Yahoo news items as I came back here. A US chartered ship fired waning shots a two unidentified boats in the Persian Gulf today. Oil went up $3 to $119.50/barrel.
Time’s a wastin’
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:42 pm)If GM had some vision (and some major cajones), they would be developing an Escalade E-REV in parallel with the Volt. I know there was some discussion about a PHEV Escalade, but I’m talking about a full E-flex derived EREV.
Escalades are not price sensitive, and the target market could likely afford to absorb the cost differential quite easily. They are also used by hordes of celebs, particularly in NYC. They’d love to make a statement like that, especially if they didn’t have to compromise on anything, which in this case, they wouldn’t.
Use a second motor/ for the rear axle. AWD, 320HP and 500lb-ft of torque. Monster performance. Bump up the pack size to compensate for the increased mass of the vehicle and the draw of the second motor.
Done.
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:49 pm)I’m a little confused by one part of Lyle’s post where he is quoted saying producing 100,000 Volts….
Are we talking about eventually? 100k was the initial number we heard from GM… but for the 1st year we’ve been told it’s been scaled back to half or less than that. especially with the phased roll out… Just curious if we are back to hoping for 100k of them the 1st year!
Apr 25th, 2008 (2:59 pm)Oh yea.. as far as the comment regarding needing bigger battery packs for when putting the Volt’s electric drive system into a larger (and presumably heavier) vehicle to get a 40 mile range/charge….
remember that at least when rolling off the line for the 1st generation Volt’s, the Volt is only essentially using 1/2 the batteries capacity to get that 40+ mile range. Ie. charge only to 80% state of charge max, and power up the genset when state of charge drops below 30%. I’m hoping that is being overly cautious in order to archive the 10+ year life for the battery. I’m still hoping that with more testing (and real world data from the Volt’s sold the 1st year) that they can use more than 50% of the battery packs potential.
ps to Lyle: I’ve been trying to get one of my email addresses off your mailing lists (not the one being used for this post but one I had used to email you directly with before). As such I’m getting duplicate copies every time you blast out an email notice about what you feel is an important thread/blog entry
Apr 25th, 2008 (3:08 pm)I think what’s missing here, and i’ve heard it mentioned before, is that if the e-flex system can get 50 mpg WITHOUT BATTERIES, just acting as a generator for the electric motor, why is this not the powerplant of the future for ALL GM VEHICLES?
Can someone help me here? What am I missing?
Apr 25th, 2008 (3:12 pm)Sorry omegaman66, I see you just posted essentially the same comment. I echo your thoughts. Can someone chime in here to tell me what I’m missing???
Apr 25th, 2008 (3:20 pm)According to Bob’s 30 month trajectory (and using my rudimentary math skilz) that would put the launch date at October 2010. I though previously it was slated for November/December. Is this news?
Apr 25th, 2008 (3:43 pm)30 & 36
So if something smells rotten in Denmark, maybe it really is. This 50 mpg is hypothetical like the 70 mpg Prius. The real Prius is between 30 is an 50 ish mpg depending on who drives, how and where.
I have read on this board and others where this Volt 50 mpg “MAY” be something between 30ish and 70ish mpg. Technically the question is whether the Higher efficiency of the AC Synch drive motor (better at highest loads) offset the losses in producing the electricity. So what I have gathered is that this 53KW gen set supplies enough (8KWs) power to run the motor but not really enough to also charge the battery above the 30% SoC level. Really the battery is the selling point. 40 Miles or so without turning the ICE Genset on. Infinite MPG so to speak. The motor is a range extender, not a main propulsion system. Most people here seem to hope that they will not have to turn it on much…
Apr 25th, 2008 (4:01 pm)I wouldn’t assume that the EEStor storage devices won’t work, because if they do, the Volt will need to morph into another form.
Apr 25th, 2008 (4:08 pm)Bob Lutz seriously needs to stop giving these backhanded compliments to his car. He always talks about how great it’s going to be, and then follows it up by calling the car a sop to uneducated consumers that have been brainwashed by green concerns.
We get it, Mr. Lutz, you hate the idea of selling environmentally friendly cars, and you’re only doing it because the government and consumers want you to.
Now, you could try selling the car as a way to, you know, save money on fuel. Considering that it might be $7.00 USD per gallon by the time the Volt is in mass production (http://research.cibcwm.com/economic_public/download/sapr08.pdf).
Even with the high sticker price of the car, it would make sense to a lot of people, just to take the stress of paying a constantly variable price for gasoline out of their day-to-day lives.
Apr 25th, 2008 (4:16 pm)Imagine…. Yes, it is good!!
Soccer mom in her E-flex suv
carpentor in his E-flex truck
and a hottie in her volt!!!
The future is good and I can’t wait
Apr 25th, 2008 (4:16 pm)Kent #39 and the good news is that the E-Flex can me a “Mighty Morph’n Vehicle”
EEStor or Hydrogen or cow stomach reactors or whatever !
The beauty of the E-Flex drive system is that the electric motor doesn’t care what generates the electricity. Once the electrical drive system is proven in a real production car GM and hook it up to any combination of battery and generator they want. Not to mention that we will certainly have after-market modifications available too!
Apr 25th, 2008 (4:54 pm)omegaman #30 & voltme #36:
The ICE and generator will sustain the motor, but from what we have been told, it would not be enough to handle bursts of high output, like when going to pass on a highway. The battery pack acts like a buffer to assist in those occasions. Also, with no battery pack, you would lose all the advantages of regen braking, which will help in the AER quite a bit during city driving.
The whole idea of the Volt is to get that 40 mile AER, BEFORE powering up the ICE/generator. And to do that, you need a large battery pack. It really is that simple….
If all you are looking for is a high mileage ICE based vehicle, go with a diesel, many of which will be available in 2009 & 2010. Just do a google for diesel cars. It looks like Ford will introduce trucks as well.
JMHO
Apr 25th, 2008 (5:04 pm)As was observed above, time is a wasting. Go Volt. As I was pumping premium at $4.17 into my Avalon yesterday, I noted some graffiti hand written on the pump, “You have just contributed to the death of our soldiers.”
Apr 25th, 2008 (5:08 pm)Jeff M #33
I don’t think the article infers that the 100K Volts are for the first year. It mentions that 100K of them would go a long way WRT CAFE.
I think they’ll probably stick with 10K for the first release, which seems like a manageable amount and a good idea. If all goes well, I’m hoping they’ll ramp up quickly so that volume will bring the price down.
Apr 25th, 2008 (5:56 pm)I’ve been pretty positive lately…but this is a BS story.
Says “Growing confidence” by Lutz, but isn’t this the same guy that when they said Nov 2010, he was ‘really confident’ like 95 percent?
GM has always been officially ‘super confident’ since they totally blew initial plans for 2009, then 2010, and from 100K to 60K to 10K, to a few copies in 2010.
A battery in a Malibu does not equal 30 months to production. Sorry Bob. I’m happy the mule is in existance now and is going to be put threw it paces, almost guaranteeing production (very happy actually)….but we deep down everyone knows none of us will be driving a Volt in 2010 (we just might not be willing to say it yet).
Apr 25th, 2008 (5:57 pm)Holy sorry about the grammar in that last post.
(and I mean BS GM story Lyle, not your story is BS, hehe).
Apr 25th, 2008 (5:59 pm)“At this point, we don’t know how important the Volt is going to be,”
Well, Mr. Lutz, you better find out fast or possibly blow a golden opportunity. Like, you do have marketing people.
Apr 25th, 2008 (6:12 pm)I consider myself an average American male (not a radical greener). I have signed up on the GM VOLT waiting list. Most people I have mentioned the GM VOLT to are not believing that GM can/will pull it off. I’m an optimist. I wonder if the GM high-ups fully understand the magnitude of desire average Americans have for being able to purchase a car such as the VOLT (especially if built by an American automaker). IF GM pulls this off, every single GM employee will have the standing to proudly wear a shirt or cap with the GM logo on it. The PR value GM would gain of a successful (on or before schedule + reasonable price + production capacity) GM VOLT launch is incalculable. What is it worth to GM to have America behind them…proud of them…cheering them on? What is the value of being a serious player in American pride? Do they really get it?
Apr 25th, 2008 (6:33 pm)I’m with the others that think only idiots blame the environment on GM in any way at all. The bulk of AGW comes from producing electricity and HVAC by a large margin, and now the bulk of it comes from China. GM is just one of many auto manufacturers too and you don’t see them producing anything much better than the Volt (Prius .. ha!), and before these advanced Li-Ion batteries it simply wasn’t doable.
GM was a bunch of morons though to not have this ready sooner. As was everyone else. A123 battery packs have been in DeWalt tools for a few years now, and nothing else in the Volt is especially novel.
Apr 25th, 2008 (6:49 pm)Rant time…
To hear some people talk, GM is nothing more than a for-profit company pushing their high profit margin products.
Hmmm…wait a second…they’re right.
One analogy would be the soft drinks at a restaurant. But what is the common denominator, SUVs and soft drinks do not have much in common.
Oh…I’ve got it. The consumer is the common denominator. The consumer makes the final decision about product selection. It must be too much to ask the consumer to be responsible.
No…that’s not it. I find most people handle responsibility within their own value systems. What could it be? Hmmm…
I’ve got it. It’s the wide variety of value systems in this country that is the problem. Per their personal value system, consumers buy SUVs for the safety and comfort and believe global warming has little merit to influence their purchase decision. Besides what harm can a few extra puffs of smoke generate? But is that a problem? Within limits…that is a right of democracy…the respect of different value systems (religions). Which means some values must be enforced with laws. I finally got it…it is the lawmakers’ fault. Finally…
Oops…hold on a second. How could it be the lawmakers fault? The consumers (general public) elected the lawmakers…the fault comes back to the consumer.
It must be everybody’s fault. Someone that has not lived in a smog filled city (or even visited) like LA or Mexico City has a tough time with paying to fix something that they consider not their problem.
Another line of thought…
I think Americans love the dramatic events. A company with one of the lowest average fleet MPG going “full tilt” to produce a high volume production vehicle that can go 40 miles with no gas. And with no foreseeable, measureable financial gains.
Sounds like the race to the moon…and another company has a 1-10 year head start. All this promotional hype…remember the Saturn promotional hype. Come on guys, just make a great product and people will buy it.
If you compare the Volt excitement to the Prius excitement, what is a fundamental difference? Toyota has done very little to generate promotional hype for the Prius. The enthusiasts are doing most of it. Sorry guys it is true…of course they have a 7-10 year head start.
A fundamental change of culture needs to occur at North America GM for the Volt (and their other small cars) to be successful for years to come. Small vehicles can be profitable, also. Just ask the competitors. They need to stop considering small vehicles a liability and fix the problems.
Apr 25th, 2008 (6:56 pm)“he motor is a range extender, not a main propulsion system”
If the motor powers the car after 40-50 miles for another 260 then I would say the ICE can be a main propulsion system.
I realize the batteries are a huge plus for the car. I am not trying to minimize the impact that they have. I realize you get basically the equivelant in cost of 150 mpg when using the battery when gas is about 3 dollars a gallon. And that 150mpg goes up with the price of gas. So 150 vs 50 (ball park figures IS like night and day! Agreed. We all agree the main goal is to drive on electric and not gas because it is way way less expensive.
But what has me pulling my hair out is that GM acts like the Volt is dependant on the li-batteries and it isn’t. Take a battery or two out of a prius and put those in the volt. (they are already proven) and the volt still beats the tar out of the prius!!! The volt would get much better gas milage with a battery 1/8th the size of the one that is going in the volt.
So both technologies (electric drive and battery tech) have already evolved past what is required for the volt to be a success and better than anything on the market. And if you read the headlines on new technology you will read about a new development in li-ion batteries that could make them better than the ones going in the volt now! Not all of these technologies will prove themselves worthy but it is unrealistic to think that battery technology will all of a sudden come to a screaching halt after it has recently taken off with all the new research being directed towards it.
So give me one senario where a volt might not be the best option out there? Name just one. And after you do name senerio I bet you would have to think it would be a very very long shot and your money would be on the volt style drive train.
Apr 25th, 2008 (7:55 pm)30 & 36:
A vehicle that gets ~50 MPG with no battery would indeed be excellent. However I don’t believe that the Volt has enough power without the battery to drive under high load conditions. Consider that even with the relatively large battery, the Volt tries to keep the battery at least 50% charged. Some of that is for battery longevity, but I believe others have posted that those power reserves are also needed to function under high load conditions (“Dear, please turn off the AC and the stereo so we can make it up this hill.”).
But your goal is a good one, and now you see why Toyota has the system they have. The Prius is able to drive the car with the gas engine or the electric motor and therefore doesn’t need the battery reserves that the volt does. The result is an affordable care that has been available for years that gets an endless near-50 MPG with a very small battery.
Perhaps GM could have such a vehicle too if they weren’t so focused on one-upping Toyota.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:10 pm)The whole idea of the Volt is that the mundane everyday commute is without gasoline. This is impossible for the Prius. And…in possible trouble times ahead, where there might not be much gas, the Volt can make the commute, the Prius won’t be able to.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:11 pm)I’m hoping for one day a high performance E-FLEX based Pontiac G8.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:17 pm)#52:
The Prius that has been available for years gets a solid 45 MPG. GM’s theoretical (will the MPG vary as did the Volt’s price???) 50 MPG in two years or so is theoretically competitive. However your assumption that you don’t need the battery is questionable.
As for when the Volt doesn’t work… your 150MPG is terribly simplistic. Just deviate from 40 Miles/day and see what happens.
At 10 mile/day you get an amazingly high MPG… but how long is the payoff for the extra $20,000+ of the volt over a Prius?
e.g. $0.1/kWh for elec, 2kWh/day for Volt, 45 MPG Prius, it would take $32/gallon gas for the Volt to pay off its initial $20,000+ cost over the Prius in 8 years
Drive 100 miles/day and the Volt’s MPG goes way down… but the payoff is actually much faster.
e.g. It would take $8/gallon gas for the Volt to pay off its initial $20,000+ cost over the Prius in 8 years.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:23 pm)GXT the VOLT’s mileage depends on average distance which is why mileage comparisons are of little use. And if cost was the only concern we would all be driving FITS.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:23 pm)#54 – I’m pretty sure the whole idea of the Volt is a PR one-up of Toyota.
Even assuming that isn’t the case, the Volt is such a niche vehicle that even if it uses no fuel the impact of the Prius will deliver much higher fuel savings. Picture 500,000K affordable Prius VS 0 Volt in 2008, again in 2009, and then another 1/2 million Prius in 2010 to GM’s 10,000 Volts (they hope).
Which saves more fuel? 1.5 million Prius or 10K Volt?
The Volt is a neat idea, but not so much in reality. GM’s games have real-world consequences even if the Volt itself doesn’t.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:26 pm)#57 – Totally agree Glen… but why do posts like #52 keep appearing and how come no one else seems to correct them?
It is about saving fuel, not $$$.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:42 pm)A few comments were made about trucks and panel vans that could be e-flex in design. There is a UK company out there called Smith Electric. It’s been in business for 80 years and makes electric trucks. The company is now moving to Lithium batteries. The Ampere (van) has a 24kwh lithium iron phosphate battery and a 50kw electric motor. It’s battery warranty is 1000 cycles or 60 months. The van does 70 mph and a range of 100 miles. I’m thinking the 100 miles is in town driving. They also produce 7.5 to 12 ton electric trucks. It’s amazing to look at the size of their big trucks.
The web site is very informative. The Volt should be a ‘snap’ for a company like GM when you see the Smith Electric producing huge electric trucks.
Main website
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/
Case studies
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/casestudies.asp
If I (6’4″) can’t fit in the Volt, there’s always the option of buying the Ampere, surely it will have headroom.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:46 pm)“”"”The Prius that has been available for years gets a solid 45 MPG. GM’s theoretical (will the MPG vary as did the Volt’s price???) 50 MPG in two years or so is theoretically competitive. However your assumption that you don’t need the battery is questionable.”"”"
The volt mules have been driven with prius size batteries. My point is not to toss the batteries but that the volt does not demand a new unproven battery technology to be vialbe. I am not saying toss the li-ion batteries just pointing out how there is no risk of the volt style drive system failing because these particular li-ion batteries fail. Put in a prius battery and the volt ALREADY beats the prius. No contest.
“”"”As for when the Volt doesn’t work… your 150MPG is terribly simplistic. Just deviate from 40 Miles/day and see what happens.”"”"
Yes it is and just trying to keep the post to something less than a novel. Take your pick, 150, 130, 120, 200, 100 etc the volt is still tons better than the a prius. Remove the big battery and the mpg will drop to something closer to a prius but slightly better. That is worst case senario. Still better! Never will a volt get 35mpg sometimes a prius might. But never with a volt even with a smaller battery.
“”"At 10 mile/day you get an amazingly high MPG… but how long is the payoff for the extra $20,000+”"”"”
The pay off for me is NEVER!!! I am not going to pay 20000 dollars more for the car. And that is another one of my points. The volt with a smaller prius size battery could easily sell for under 20,000 dollars after GM recoups some of its cost of development of the new drive train.
Give us a choice! If you don’t make a lot of money you can’t afford a volt. Give us choices. The design is not restricted to large battery packs.
“”"e.g. It would take $8/gallon gas for the Volt to pay off its initial $20,000+ cost over the Prius in 8 years.”"”
Exaclty! Cut the cost of the vehicle by producing a volt style automobile with a cheap battery. This could be a sub 20,000 dollar car. As batterys or maybe even ultracap’s become available then the bottom of the line vehicles will be able to come with increasingly larger and large batteries at no additional cost.
Here is one senario. Buy the 20k car with a 1/8 size battery. Drive it for 7 years and get better than current prius gas milage. Then upgrade the battery for 10k dollars and drive 150 miles gas free.
Not everyone can afford a Volt and I would hate to see the people that can least afford a volt get stuck paying the high gas prices when it isn’t neccessary.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:47 pm)NiMh Batteries are under patent which Chevron holds. you cannot use a bigger battery like the one in the EV1 or Rav4 EV because the patent covers that. Smaller ones (in hybrids) are not. THat is why you cannot get replacement batteries for the Rav4′s. Here is the quote from Wikipedia.
“Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron’s unit won a $30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. Only smaller NiMH batteries, incapable of powering an electric vehicle or plugging in, are currently allowed by Chevron-Texaco.”
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:48 pm)That is why the Volt cannot use NiMH batteries. Its not that they wouldn’t work are are not proven. Its because they don’t own the patent.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:53 pm)I don’t understand how these prius can save people money on gasoline , when it depents on gasoline to run and these volt doesn’t ? These Volt is starting on these delta 2 platforum which would make the volt a affordable price.
Apr 25th, 2008 (8:58 pm)Everything GM had done in the last 10 years prior could be explained by, “we need money, and we need it now.” They invented a lot of interesting technology, but failed to take the lead on it to provide a competitive advantage and branding. They sold the NiMh battery patent. They didn’t pursue hybrids. They took big government contracts for hydrogen, when it clearly won’t turn into significant commercial sales before battery powered vehicles. They’re not going to turn around overnight, but at least Lutz has talked them into taking some calculated risks and devoting time and resources to quality and style.
I can’t wait for the day when we are proud of buying American cars powered purely by American/Canadian energy.
Apr 25th, 2008 (9:05 pm)As well these ” E Flex Drive System ” is made for small car’s platforums, and use hydrogen-fuel cells, solar-panels, gasoline-power, biofuels, wind-power, geothermal, hydroelectric, natural-gas, clean-coal, and nuclear, too run these system. These Volt won’t start in small nummbers.
Apr 25th, 2008 (9:05 pm)Bob Lutz just dropped two bombshells in a conversation I had with him today via email. Details at my site, but here’s the skinny…
1) A Pure EV Volt is being considered to answer California’s requirement for a couple thousand zero emission vehicles…
2) Bob will take his first prototype ride in 10 days!
Apr 25th, 2008 (9:34 pm)#54
“Which saves more fuel? 1.5 million Prius or 10K Volt?”
** ** ** **
The obvious answer is 10K Volts. If the question were between 1.5 million Prius’ and 10K Vipers the answer would be 10k vipers. One point five million gasoline burning vehicles regardless of how efficient they are burn quite a bit of fuel, 10K less efficient vehicles still burn quite a bit less.
Seriously though, the point is moot. I can’t control how many Prius’ have been sold or will be sold, just that I will buy the Volt so that my daily commutes use no fuel at all. Additionally I will have a car that doesn’t look dorky, accelerates briskly, and can also use E85 when I need it to. And yes, the price of the Volt will come down.
Apr 25th, 2008 (9:42 pm)>> “Which saves more fuel? 1.5 million Prius or 10K Volt?”
What will the other 1.4 million people be driving?
Apr 25th, 2008 (9:47 pm)Oops! Typo. I shouldn’t have abbreviated…
What will the other 1,490,000 million people be driving?
In other words, that comparison lacked any attempt to actually be objective. When will the serious questions finally be addressed… like how the heater will work, since battery only isn’t actually the most efficient choice. Though no one has even bothered to consider that.
Apr 25th, 2008 (10:00 pm)Wanna raise confidence about the 2010 timeline?
Let’s get some answers. No detail, just vague status, certainly doesn’t inspire.
Apr 25th, 2008 (10:41 pm)The point is that it does matter how many Prius’ have been sold to date, or are projected to sell in the future, or how much gas the Prius has been estimated to have saved, *that* has no bearing on what I’ll decide (and many others) to purchase.
Why is it that the pro Prius people always try to pull these cost/benefit analysis’ or “greater good” type cases for their car? The reality is that that type of analysis is irrelevant in a purchase decision and we do not buy cars in hope that they’ll somehow pay for themselves.
Apr 25th, 2008 (10:48 pm)To the Pro-Prissy Prima Donnas;
The Prissy gets 40 to 50 mpg. End of story. Certainly respectable, a step forward. Still dependent upon gasoline, and for the typical 15,000 miles per year used by the EPA, this equates to 326 gallons per year.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
The Volt will utilize electricity as its major source of fuel. For some, they will use almost no gasoline. For others, they will consume a small amount (about 100 gallons for 5,000 miles of non-electric travel). The electricity will come from a variety of sources, including hydro, nuclear, coal, and renewables. This equates to true fuel diversification.
First, no one knows the pricing of the Volt, so it is senseless to talk in any definative manner about pricing comparisons (of course, the performance predictions haven’t been verified either). Also, no one has yet mentioned trade-in value for the Volt versus Prissy. If the Volt has a higher initial cost, and has a lower cost per mile to drive, it would stand to reason that it will retrieve a higher price at trade-in. So all of your economics are just babble at this juncture.
But the real important aspect of the Volt I have already mentioned, fuel diversification. Cars such as the Volt have the ability to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, and are the next step towards BEV’s in the future.
I like the concept of the Volt for many reasons, including a stronger economy at home, bringing our troops home, reducing our dependence on foreign oil, lower emissions, and personal economics.
Note that my home is designed to heat with home heating oil. Over the past several years I have burned increasing amounts of wood to offset the use of oil, to the point I am now reducing my consumption by 1000 gallons per year. I will be installing a new gasification wood boiler this year so that I can almost eliminate my home heating oil use.
When I factor in my time to stack wood in the spring to dry, move it to the house in the fall, feed the boiler, etc. I know its not worth my time in savings. However, if we don’t take steps to change the supply/demand curve for oil, the price won’t stop escalating.
Note that in the ’70s, we imported 9 million barrels per day of oil. By 1985, we had reduced oil imports to between 4 and 5 million barrels per day. Then the price dropped significantly!
We can do this again, and the Volt is one vehicle that can help us achieve this goal.
Apr 25th, 2008 (11:58 pm)omegaman66 #61:
Don’t you think that GM should finish the project they have started before they go off on tangents? Let’s get the Gen-1 Volt on the road first!!!
I get the feeling that you think a new car can be ready to go in a few months. That is just not how it works………
Apr 26th, 2008 (12:05 am)Jim I,
GM has been talking about how it has fastracked the Volt and I believe them.
But they must now feel confidence about the drive train because the mule is on the road.
Bob Lutz has been quoted a recognising the possibility of a small van, that does not seem too big a challenge, I hope they consider starting the Van now for delivery 2011, with a new design team of course.
I see Smiths are using the term Ampere so I gess that makes the Van a Farad.
Apr 26th, 2008 (12:05 am)john1701a #69:
Why do you think that you have the right to know every single spec for the new GM Volt product, but you do not ask the same of Toyota for the Gen-3 Prius? That is kind of a conflict of interest, don’t you think?
When Toyota has a Volt Nation type of conference, with the major players of the development team available to meet with the general public on a design that is 30 months away from delivery, then you can make your demanding comments.
It is in GM’s best interest to release some basic information, and keep some information internal? Why give away all the results, when they are paying for the basic research? I would not do it either!
Apr 26th, 2008 (12:07 am)bruceg #74:
Instead of Farad, how about the Maxi-Volt?
Apr 26th, 2008 (12:12 am)Yup, that is nice.
Either would be better than Henry.
Apr 26th, 2008 (2:48 am)“”"Don’t you think that GM should finish the project they have started before they go off on tangents? Let’s get the Gen-1 Volt on the road first!!!”"”
“”"I get the feeling that you think a new car can be ready to go in a few months. That is just not how it works………”"”
I realize that new cars especially when retooling to a new technology instead of ICE requires more time than a few months. I am not complaining about the timeline for the volt. The timeline for the volt is about as good as can be expected from any big company such as GM, Ford, Toyota etc.
And I agree lets get the volt out first. What I am growing less and less enthusiastic about is what I am increasingly picking up from the way they speak at GM. I believe GM is hitting the ball out of the park with the Volt. But as with any car… one size does not fit all.
Here is the quote from Lutz:
“”"At this point, we don’t know how important the Volt is going to be,” “”"
How can he NOT see how important the Volt is going to be!!! He is more involved in this project than just about anyone and he doesn’t appear to realize that the volt shouldn’t be just another car in the production line but should take over the production line. I am still waiting for one senerio where the volt drive train doesn’t win over all others.
“”"and that one reason for the project is to “eliminate this perception of GM as the environmental antichrist”"”
So did I hear this right??? The volt is being produced in part to counter a perception!!! Sounds a lot like “we are making the volt because we need part of our auto line to be green… but not all of it… EVER.
I don’t know what GM’s plans are! Just these type of comments don’t sound like lean mean fighting machine type comments of an agressive company trying to make the history books and change the world forever.
Apr 26th, 2008 (3:36 am)Omega-66 #78
Let’s let GM get the cherry sucker out the door in working condition and with as few flaws as possible. There WILL absolutely be 10,000 takers who like cherry for the first round.
After that they can work on more flavors, grape, banana, and what ever flies off the wheel.
Don’t be too concerned about what Lutz says, because he forgot to mention that not only will the Volt do wonders for GM’s green image, but for their lineup, and the company’s image as a whole. For the last 20+ years GM’s lineup has been so vanilla no one would ever have imagined they’d punch through and take the risk to produce a game changer like the Volt. So, considering GM’s 20+ year vanilla history, cherry might not be such a bad start.
One step at a time.
Apr 26th, 2008 (4:30 am)Omegaman66,
I can see your point of view, lets hope he is misquoted or the quotes are out of date.
Personally I think they are playing cards.
However I am sure the Volt will happen but quantities and variants are still a mystery.
Apr 26th, 2008 (5:10 am)$20K more than a Prius maybe close. There are extended range A123 packs available for the Prius that puts it on par with the Volt target for $17K. That is still out of my price range though.
The government should pass a tax cut for purchasing a high mileage vehicle. They passed a tax break for purchasing big SUVs a few years ago. How stupid was that?
I hope the Volt is a big success.
Apr 26th, 2008 (6:12 am)#32 – Todd, right on!
I want my E-Flex Escalade now, preferably with a couple of 200 hp UQM motors, http://www.uqm.com/press/news/08-06.html, or better yet 4 140hp wheel hub motors. Who cares about unsprung weight on an Escalade! Forget about the third seat, fill it up with more batteries…
Apr 26th, 2008 (6:33 am)32 & 82….
How about a slightly smaller, more stylish version of the Escalade GM introduced as a concept this January as the Cadillac Provoq…..
Although it’s range extender is a fuel cell right now, it could easily use the Volt architecture with an ICE-powered generator instead. The Provoq now has a 9KWh Li-Ion battery, but has ample space for a 16KWh battery based on the Volt’s battery. The car’s battery-only range is 20miles with its 9KWh battery, but this would be extended to (16KWh/9KWh)x20mi = 35+MILES! Not bad, huh? For details on the existing Caddy Provoq concept go to….
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/experience/news_provoq.jsp
Apr 26th, 2008 (6:35 am)Grizzly #54 said “And…in possible trouble times ahead, where there might not be much gas, the Volt can make the commute, the Prius won’t be able to.” To me this strength of the Volt is critically important.
However, I think of the Prius as a strength of the Volt. The big goal for the Volt is not Prius owners, but people who have neither, who still are the much larger fraction of possible customers.
Apr 26th, 2008 (7:04 am)>> Why do you think that you have the right to know every
>> single spec for the new GM Volt product, but you do not
>> ask the same of Toyota for the Gen-4 Prius?
Wanting to know the APPROACH taken isn’t the same as wanting to know specs.
Being informed about the METHOD chosen for heating the interior and the METHOD chosen for charging during the winter don’t require detail anyway. But that is a fundamental which must be addressed to explain why Volt is supposedly better. You can’t just claim it without reasoning. And all this celebrating before the product is actually delivered to consumers is quite unlike what Toyota and Ford have been doing with their hybrids.
Lastly, what else is their to ask about the coming Prius update? We already know specs in great detail from the 1997, 2000, and 2003 updates. For the next update… The speed of stealth is expected to be increased to 100 km/h (62.1 MPH). The physical size of the hybrid components will be reduced. The production cost will be lower. Efficiency will go up.
Apr 26th, 2008 (7:06 am)#83 nasaman You’ve put forward a really good idea. The market for the Cadillac Provoq is there, with the money to buy and the interest in being green and comfortable. I like it.
Apr 26th, 2008 (7:27 am)We already know this too:
A123 supplies a 5 kWh, 140 pound, 7,000 full-cycle, Li-Ion Nanophosphate battery-pack for Prius plug-in augmentation, via the Hymotion upgrade for $9,999.
Apr 26th, 2008 (8:27 am)Small electric pickup! I’ll sell my Tacoma in an instant for a Chevy electric. When can I get one? I prefer a small pickup over a passenger car.
Apr 26th, 2008 (9:08 am)FYI
Apr 26th, 2008 (9:10 am)Diesel-electric
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A number of vehicles use a diesel-electric powertrain for providing locomotion. A diesel-electric powerplant includes a diesel engine connected to an electrical generator, creating electricity that powers electric traction motors. Before diesel engines came into widespread use a similar system, using a petrol engine and called petrol-electric, was sometimes used.
This kind of power transmission is used by locomotives (see that article for details), used for pulling or pushing trains. Diesel-electric powerplants have also been used in submarines and surface ships and some land vehicles. In some high-efficiency applications, electrical energy may be stored in rechargeable batteries, in which case these vehicles can be considered as a class of hybrid electric vehicle.
Apr 26th, 2008 (12:30 pm)john1701a:
The approach for the heating/cooling has already been given. We have been told that it would use a heat pump.
As far as winter charging, I don’t really understand the question. You will still have to plug in the vehicle. It has been mentioned, but I do not believe verified, that the car may be warmed and/or cooled to a pre-set temperature while the car is still plugged in, to reduce the initial load on the batteries.
And my comment about Toyota was meant to be about what everyone seems to believe is on its way – a Toyota produced plug in version of the Prius. Do you get ANY information comparable to what GM has released about the Volt program from Toyota? No. Why not? Why is their program, if it exists, such a big secret?
Apr 26th, 2008 (1:54 pm)Today, the NYTimes had a story on A123 and their Hymotion conversion being available for sale to the public. The story is available at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/automobiles/27PLUGIN.html?ex=1366948800&en=ac09fb66cdd802ea&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
The story has also been picked up by GCC:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/04/a123systems-lau.html#more
>We already know this too:
>
>A123 supplies a 5 kWh, 140 pound, 7,000 full-cycle, Li-Ion >Nanophosphate battery-pack for Prius plug-in augmentation, via the >Hymotion upgrade for $9,999.
Apr 26th, 2008 (2:00 pm)Grizzly #80
Let’s let GM get the cherry sucker out the door in working condition and with as few flaws as possible. After that they can work on more flavors
I understand your thoughts on that train of thought and I think that is pretty much how GM is thinking. I just think that right now the competition is coming out with their own revs and such to counter the volt.
Does anyone believe the evolution ends at the volt without expanding into more and more of the GM lineup! If you think that there are more flavors to come I think it would be a wise business choice to start working toward supplying a whole lot more flavors than just the volt. After waiting 3 years for the Volt are we to have to wait another 2 or more for the conversion of other lines like the Silverado to the Volt style drive train. I think that is too long. Gas will be 10 dollars a gallon by then.
We need the volt now! Delays in widespread implementation of this across all vehicles is a matter of national security. Our economy will be in the cellar if the present increases in transportation cost aren’t countered.
Apr 26th, 2008 (2:07 pm)>> Do you get ANY information comparable to what GM has released about
>> the Volt program from Toyota?
Apples to Oranges.
GM is a very outspoken, spotlight drawing automaker. That’s just the way they are.
Toyota takes the modest approach, keeping quiet until the product is just about ready for purchase. That’s just the way they are.
Focus should be on the product itself, not how it is promoted.
Apr 26th, 2008 (2:10 pm)>> We have been told that it would use a heat pump.
Where is that mentioned? Remember, this website still lacks a central repository for detail. Random encounters are clearly not enough.
So anyway… are you saying the source will be pure electric, not taking advantage of waste heat available from the engine?
>> As far as winter charging, I don’t really understand the question.
Obviously. Try this…
Park your Volt while you work. During those 9 hours, the battery-pack cools down to the below-freezing outside temperature. Li-Ion cannot accept much, if any, charge when that cold. How does the system operate then? Will it lose the ability to recharge until after completely warming up?
Apr 26th, 2008 (2:32 pm)Hey John1701a –
>>>> As far as winter charging, I don’t really understand the question.
>>Obviously. Try this…
>>Park your Volt while you work. During those 9 hours, the battery-pack cools down to the below-freezing outside temperature. Li-Ion cannot accept much, if any, charge when that cold. How does the system operate then? Will it lose the ability to recharge until after completely warming up?
Smart employers across the country will be more than willing to intall charging stations in company parking lots – think of how much easier that will make recruiting employees – and how much money those employees will be saving on commuting costs. The E-flex economy will have less pressure on wages as more Americans can afford to commute to work. Cold weather will not be a problem.
As for GM, I hope everyone here is routing for them! If we want to see the VOLT produced and on the market in 30 months, we should all go out and lease a new GM vehicle for the next 30 to 36 months – like the new Malibu (a beautiful car that gets great mileage) and help GM drive the development of the Li-Ion and E-flex technology!
Go GM!!! Go VOLT Nation!!!
Apr 26th, 2008 (3:22 pm)>> Cold weather will not be a problem.
No one said it was going to be a problem. There is an efficiency penalty though.
Again… How does the system operate then?
Apr 26th, 2008 (10:51 pm)Omegaman,
Ranting about how GM just doesn’t get it is so far off the mark that it is ridiculous.
Have you ever heard of the concept of ramping up? First you have to have proof of principle…they’re doing that right now with the test mules. Then you have to bring it to market at a price that yields a profit and see if the people will buy. You may scream that everyone will buy, but let’s wait and see what the price-ploint demand junction is like. Finally, you can’t just switch a 15 million car industry overnight to a new powertrain. For one thing, you couldn’t build the factories fast enough to produce the batteries…assuming you could mine all the lithium you’d need.
There are very intriguing developments in the field, including a new lithium anode being developed by an assistant professor named Ciu that potentially could turn the 40 mpg lithium batteries planned for the Volt into 400 mpg batteries. Interestingly the development is being funded not by the USA, (we’re too busy funding the Iraq disaster to the tune of 120 billion a year). It is being backed by the Saudis!
So, all you Republicans out there who still cheer for Bush’s war. When we exchange overpriced oil for overpriced batteries, just look in the mirror and blame yourself.
But, back to the original rant, these things take time. From the time the auto was invented until the great depression, some forty years, auto production wasn’t close to the million per year range. This radically new technology will have to be proved, gain customer acceptance, find ever more advanced batteries, and THEN and ONLY THEN will it be moved across the line to all vehicles.
I know you think you know everything, and the thousands of engineers and scientists employed by GM are idiots, but forgive me if I go with GM.