Apr 17

Volt Mule Spy Photo Clarification: the Real Deal

 

As you have seen in our last post, there are pictures of the Chevy Volt mule car in motion circulating on the Internet as spy photos. There has been related conjecture about whats under the hood of that mule. I understood no li-ion pack mules are running yet, but other sites reported the vehicle has an li-ion pack in it.

I always, as is the mantra of this website, try to get the real facts. Per my request, here is the truth per GM EFlex spokesman Rob Peterson:

"We have had E-Flex mule vehicles testing components on our test tracks in Milford for over five months. However, the one being shown is not one of them. The photo circulating on the web is a Volt ride and handling test vehicle. It does not include E-Flex propulsion components – specifically, it does not include the li-ion t-pack."

Note the picture we show here above and below is a real E-Flex mule with the E-Flex drivetrain, but no li-ion pack.

This entry was posted on Thursday, April 17th, 2008 at 9:55 am and is filed under Images. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 66


  1. 1
    Jake

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jake
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:05 am)

    What is that huge thing with the orange cables?


  2. 2
    Rashiid Amul

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:31 am)

    Well done, Lyle. You do a good job trying to keep everything truthful and honest. Thanks for the clarification.

    And as Jake #1 asks, “What is that huge thing with the orange cables?”


  3. 3
    George K

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George K
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:34 am)

    Orange cables mean high voltage. So it’s something with a lot of juice. Looks too small to be an inverter.


  4. 4
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:52 am)

    Get ‘er done! Time’s a wastin’!


  5. 5
    Grizzly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Grizzly
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:52 am)

    That’s got to be part of the motor controller, or regen. braking. Sure doesn’t look like there’s much room under that hood.


  6. 6
    JR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JR
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:59 am)

    I would be happy if GM simply used the new Malibu body for the Volt. I imagine it would not be too difficult to do that. Probably would be cheaper also.


  7. 7
    AES

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    AES
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:00 am)

    The cables look like they are in sets of threes, which to me implies they’re delivering alternating current.


  8. 8
    GM Volt Fan

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    GM Volt Fan
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:36 am)

    I expect to see a lot of scenes at gas stations like in this cartoon in 2011 with new Volt owners and people still stuck with their huge, gas guzzling SUVs and trucks. :)

    http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/04/oh-shut-up-pump-resized.jpg

    Gas prices could be $6 per gallon or more by then. Who knows? The Chevy Volt will probably be THE car to have in 2011. I think GM is going to surprise everyone and the Volt is going to be a darn good all around car with pretty good performance, a good exterior and interior, low maintenance costs and VERY low gasoline costs. Hopefully, GM gets VERY good grades for the Volt from the folks at Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, JD Power, etc.

    C’mon GM, I want to see you “shake up the world” with the Volt …. like Muhammed Ali used to say at his championship fights. :)


  9. 9
    GXT

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    GXT
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:36 am)

    Lyle, are you purposely being obtuse with your bi-lines?

    First there was the “Will the Volt be Too Powerful?” spin.

    Now, to clarify an earlier post as to whether a spy shot is a full-on Volt test mule, you have the following: “Volt Mule Spy Photo Clarification: the Real Deal”. That seems to imply that the Volt Mule was the “Real Deal”, but after reading your full post I see that you are claiming that you have the “real deal” and the volt mule spy shot wasn’t the “real deal”.


  10. 10
    mien green

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    mien green
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:52 am)

    Carburator. You like?


  11. 11
    Rich F.

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rich F.
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:53 am)

    To #9: I don’t think Lyle is doing anything other than getting relevant Volt articles on the site as quickly as possible. I don’t see that as taking sides. The whole purpose is to stimulate discussion. The second mule article was a clarification to the previous one and it is not Lyle’s claim about anything. He printed a quote from a GM spokesman telling us specifics about the two vehicles shown in the pictures.


  12. 12
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (12:18 pm)

    There is a nice article about the Volt in this week’s Autoweek. I found the comments about the styling to be quite encouraging in light of the disguised wind tunnel model shown here and the resulting discussions. After quite a bit of discussion of the styling revisions we have talked about at length they say:

    “Even with the changes, the car is expected to bear a resemblance to the Volt concept which attracted attention for its eye-catching looks, says Bob Boniface, the car’s design director.”

    “‘All of those pieces that were important to the show car are still there…. If you see a car on the road, you’ll know it’s the Volt,’ Boniface says”


  13. 13
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (12:20 pm)

    #11 Rich F.

    Not to worry, it’s just good old GXT stirring up the animals.

    Next case.


  14. 14
    RB

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    RB
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (12:33 pm)

    Lyle — Great job getting the situation clarified. That’s what makes this site so good — verified information, not just speculation.


  15. 15
    AES

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    AES
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (12:36 pm)

    This actually isn’t the first time we’ve seen this particular Malibu mule. There was a presentation GM gave at EV23 that had a side shot of this exact car. Let me try to dig up the image somewhere – it’s a small, blurry slide.


  16. 16
    Jim I

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (1:05 pm)

    I don’t know what those wires do, but they were in a picture of the chassis from April, 2007.

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee9a3a5/cmd.233/enclosure..ee9a3a6

    Now I suppose we are going to have a discussion about the preference of cable color in our Volt!!!

    :)

    And Lyle, just keep doing what you are doing………….

    I do have a question for Lyle – When are we going to be able to add a location to our place in the wait list????????? We need GM to know that “limited availability” is a BAD IDEA!!!!!!


  17. 17
    Jason M. Hendler

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jason M. Hendler
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (1:10 pm)

    Lyle,

    It is awesome that you can get the straight dope from the right people – great job.


  18. 18
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (1:16 pm)

    You know, maybe I am wrong, but with the testing of the battery packs as far along as they seem to be as is the mule placements for real world testing, could it be possible we may see the Volt in the first half of 2010? I believe it is surely possible. I feel sure GM wants VERY much to beat Toyota to market with a plug-in car. Toyota has stated they would probably have one by the fall of 2010.

    What do ya’ll think? I want GM to be successful and beat Toyota and all of the others to market with the very best car available.


  19. 19
    MetrologyFirst

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MetrologyFirst
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (1:17 pm)

    GM Voltfan #8:

    Don’t expect GM th get an atta boy from Consumer Reports. These clowns wouldn’t recommend a GM project unless it was to close the company down. I have no respect for CR as far as car information goes. Their job apparently is to convince us that a car purchase is nothing more important than buying a toaster or a hair dryer; keep emotion out of it, just look at the facts, as compiled by CR of course.

    The sad thing is most of the lemming public doesn’t seem to recognize that they are being treated like idiots by CR.

    We can only hope the truely independnet media will give the Volt a chance to impress. And doesn’t try to pigeon-hole the Volt into being a conventional hybrid competitor.


  20. 20
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (1:25 pm)

    #19 MetrologhFiirst

    I don’t want to start an argument, but I subscribe to CR and I do remember quite a few GM vehicles that were reported as good purchases. But, after saying that, I will certainly agree that it seem CR is very much a believer in Japanese automobiles. But that could also be because of better quality. I have owned mostly Chevrolet cars and trucks during my life (I am 64) and quality has suffered. I have seen some pretty darn bad quality in Japanese autos, also. GM and Ford does seem to very much up-to-date in producing quality autos in the past few years.

    So, maybe, maybe, maybe CR will not let bias affect them. I don’t think they will. Time will tell.


  21. 21
    N Riley

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    N Riley
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (1:31 pm)

    Also, I should say that my last few cars have been Honda’s. I almost purchased the 2007 Chevy truck when it first came out. I didn’t because of worries about operating cost. I work for an oil company and I know one thing for sure: Gasoline and Diesel will be a major cost item in household budgets in the next few years. We are seeing it now.

    That new Chevy truck design is great and it is a super buy. I still wish I had purchased it. Quality was top notch. I do not like the Toyota Tundra’s look. The Honda Ridgeline would a great truck if it was a lot more fuel efficient.


  22. 22
    Paul-R

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Paul-R
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (2:33 pm)

    That huge thing with the orange cables is the Flux Capacitor.

    “1.21 Gigawatts!!!”

    ;-)


  23. 23
    ThombDbhomb

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ThombDbhomb
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (2:35 pm)

    #19 MetrologyFirst

    To confirm your general accusation, it would be an interesting exercise to compare past Consumer Reports recommendations to actual data. How often has CR gotten it right? How often has CR gotten it wrong?

    For that matter, concerning the recent article by Paul Niedemeir titled,

    “The Great Hybrid Showdown: Chevrolet Volt vs. Toyota Prius”

    (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-great-hybrid-showdown-chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius/)

    I’d like to know how Mr. Niedemeir’s past predictions have fared. What is his success rate at predicting things?


  24. 24
    MarkFLL

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MarkFLL
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (2:41 pm)

    I’m just happy when I see any new information posted here. It’s when I don’t see anything new or updated, then I begin to worry. Thanks for the updates, Lyle.


  25. 25
    BillR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BillR
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (2:50 pm)

    #22 Paul-R

    I particularly like the scene following the “1.21 Gigawatts” where Doc grabs the picture of Thomas Edison, looks him in the eye and says “Tom, how can this be!!”


  26. 26
    Grizzly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Grizzly
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (2:51 pm)

    Jim I #16

    It seems that the Volt in your picture is the fuel cell version. If you look closely at the components and behind Tony P. you can see the H2 tank.


  27. [...] 3, ‘Chevy Volt EFlex Mule And Rendered Speculation ‘); [GMVolt.com, Popular [...]


  28. 28
    Ruby

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ruby
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (4:27 pm)

    Why not just put that system-
    electric motor, small gas generator, and small battery, in every car?
    It would get 50 mpg (GM’s figure for recharging mode), be quieter, need less maintenance (less moving parts in electric) the heat could come from the small engine. Might not need a muffler…
    Am I missing something?
    Any thoughts?


  29. 29
    Brian M

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Brian M
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (4:33 pm)

    The box with the orange cables must be the inverter/converter, and has two sets of three-phase cables coming out. I assume one set is bringing in AC current from the generator, and the other is delivering AC current to the drive motor. That box probably also has a set of DC cables coming from the battery that we can’t see, as well as the AC cables from the charger.


  30. 30
    Rob

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rob
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (4:37 pm)

    MetrologyFirst #19

    I don’t wish to be flamed on this site, but in my experience CR’s take on autos is pretty fairly balanced. Who among us is “objective”? Sure, I’m prey to styling, options, colors, etc. when choosing a car. But if a vehicle’s mechanical underpinnings and fit-and-finish are questionable it doesn’t matter how attractive it is.


  31. 31
    NZDavid

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    NZDavid
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (4:54 pm)

    Great photos Lyle. Looks to me like the big black thing running from side to side in front of the dash is the inverter. The silver box looks like the motor controller with AC out. The two orange bars on top look like the HV disconnects.

    #’s 22 & 25 hahaha. You two are showing your age;-)

    #16 Jim I. Orange is the international standard denoting HV be careful.

    Do you think the white round thing in front of the dudes hand is the generator? Lyle, not to be too picky, but, can we have a more vertical shot?


  32. 32
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (4:56 pm)

    #30 Rob:

    I have to agree. When I choose a car I am more influenced by the sort of buff books – Autoweek, Automobile, and so forth – and GM-Volt.com, I hasten to add! – but CR certainly provides a useful service and often a counterpoint to the more enthusiast oriented publications.

    The exhaustive list they did last year of gas mileage of cars was extremely valuable for example. It was clearly a very useful comparison shopping aid, and a way to counter the spin coming out of the car companies – so many models over 30 mpg highway for a horrible example. They even devised their own mileage test cycle to compare to the highly suspect EPA cycles. I actually quoted that list several times here, and at GM Fastlane.

    Knowledge and information are power. CR is a good source of both. Enthusiasts are well advised to factor CR’s opinions into the mix and decide for themselves what is s**t and what is Shinola.


  33. 33
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (5:08 pm)

    #13 NZDavid:

    Talk about showing your age, it took me a minute to get it. Maybe we can put up a picture of Dr. Lyle holding up a picture of Mr. Lutz and saying “Bob, how can this be?”


  34. 34
    NZDavid

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    NZDavid
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (5:39 pm)

    33 Noel

    Hahaha, that will be when they announce the final price! ROFLMAO.

    Regards
    David


  35. 35
    omegaman66

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    omegaman66
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (5:54 pm)

    #28 Ruby

    I am with you. Start cranking out the volt and all cars and trucks with the electric motor right now.

    Battery technology is not an issue and their is NO RISK in moving forward. Lets assume all li batteries explode after 1000 miles of use. What happens to the volt at that point? Do we trash the car and go back to what we have today? NOT IF WE ARE SMART. The electric motor driven entirely with a gas generator to supply elecricity is better than anything on the market today.

    Cheaper, more dependable!!! Do it now! Convert NOW! The volts success does not depend on even having big battery.


  36. 36
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (6:18 pm)

    #34 NZDavid:

    Well I didn’t quite ROTF, but I literally did LOL! Thanks.

    “Too true to be funny”, as my old Daddy used to say.

    What fun to joke back and forth with folks on the far side of the world. Maybe it will bring us all together in the end, as Jean-Charles has so wisely suggested.

    All the best.


  37. 37
    Jake

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jake
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (6:27 pm)

    Makes sense that the box with the cables is the motor controller. That actually occurred to me after I posted, but I didn’t think of it at first because it seemed too large. When I think about it the size seems more reasonable.


  38. 38
    butters

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    butters
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (6:41 pm)

    Thom #23, try my cost/benefit analysis:

    Assume gas costs $4/gal, electricity costs $0.15/kWh, both the Prius and the Volt get 50 mpg, and the Volt gets 5 mi/kWh. Then the operational cost savings for the Volt is $0.05 per electric mile. If both cars are driven M miles and R is the ratio of electric miles for the Volt, then the justifiable first-cost premium for the Volt is 0.05*R*M.

    For example, if the Volt is driven 12,000 miles per year for 10 years and 75% of these miles are within battery range, then we can justify a purchase premium of $4500 over the Prius. Since the Prius starts under $22K, then even if the Volt starts at $30K (which now seems somewhat unlikely), it’s still a bad deal.

    Given these energy cost assumptions, a Volt owner would need to drive 160,000 all-electric miles over the life of the car to justify paying $30K. Only a prodigious increase in the price of gas relative to electricity can mitigate this situation.

    As for carbon emissions, the Volt is essentially a wash compared to the Prius based on the current average U.S. electricity mix. Within battery range, it would be about three times as carbon-efficient based on source and vehicle efficiencies, but grid transmission losses (about 67%!!) completely wipe out these gains.

    However, Volt owners with access to particularly low-carbon electricity can realize a substantial reduction in carbon emissions. For example, my electric service from Alameda Power is 84% carbon-neutral, about 2.5 times better than average. If 80% of my miles are within battery range, then my Volt would have about 50% the carbon footprint of a Prius.

    In conclusion, extremely few Volt owners will be able to realize a life-cycle cost savings over the Prius. The Volt is only a rational purchase for those with access to comparatively clean electricity who can justify spending more money to reduce their carbon footprint. There’s no question that the Volt is a superior design that definitely lowers energy cost and potentially reduces carbon emissions compared to the Prius. It’s just not superior enough to justify $30K, let alone $40K and beyond.


  39. 39
    bruceg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    bruceg
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (6:55 pm)

    butters,
    Wiki says transmission losses in the US are about 7.2%
    Perhaps you mean the generation efficiency of a coal fired power station?


  40. 40
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (6:58 pm)

    #38 butters:

    I think that it is pretty optimistic to assume that the average price of gas over the life of a Volt is going to be $4.00/gallon. If it keeps escalating at the rate it has the past few weeks, it will be more than that by the end of the year.

    Even so, you are right that it is almost imposible to justify the projected increased price of the Volt over the Prius on financial terms alone. There has to be more to it than that.

    Call me naive, or idealistic, but I am willing to spend a few bucks extra on the basis of preserving the US auto industry, saving American jobs, reducing the balance of payments debacle, reducing the justification for “oil wars”, and all of the other sort of intangible, or maybe even metaphysical, issues we have discussed here at length.

    Why to people buy a Benz instead of a Volkswagen? Or a Lexus instead of a Corolla? Or even a Cadillac instead of a Cobalt, come to that? You can’t justify any of that on a financial basis, but it’s done thousands of times a day.

    They say that in California “You are what you drive.” I’m not driving a Toyota.

    Having said all that, there is a limit. $48,000 is a non-starter. What the true maximum is, who knows. I guess we will just have to wait and see.


  41. 41
    Grizzly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Grizzly
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (7:24 pm)

    Are we all forgetting that aside from its green aspect that the Volt is a performance car? How many people purchase performance cars on cost justification?

    I’ll agree that the price of the Volt has to come down, but to think that it being a bit high initially will trump the entire E-flex project is ridiculous.


  42. 42
    nasaman

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (7:30 pm)

    Off topic….. For anyone interested in the 2009/10 Plug-in Saturn VUE as a Volt alternative (or like me, as a “stable-mate” to my Chevy Volt for hauling my boat, lots of kids & other stuff around) check out my current post at our forum…..

    http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2150#post2150

    Return to topic……


  43. 43
    ThombDbhomb

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ThombDbhomb
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (8:02 pm)

    #42 nasaman

    How can you be so sure that there will be a 2009/10 Plug-in Saturn VUE? I read your referenced forum post. What I read didn’t indicate definite plans for a 2009/10 Plug-in Saturn VUE. It seemed like Mr. Lutz listened politely to your proposal. But, that doesn’t convince me that it GM will produce such an auto.


  44. 44
    Brian M

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Brian M
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (8:15 pm)

    ThombDbhomb:

    GM has already announced that they will produce the plug-in Vue.


  45. 45
    Jeff

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jeff
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (8:35 pm)

    The amount interest in the Volt is clear with this website…will it rival the interest in the Prius for years to come? Will folks enhance their production Volt to get more electric miles?

    Only few vehicles get the status of legend…and much fewer are not considered a sports car. The Volkswagon Beetle comes to mind…unless it has been modified.

    One thing that most “car legends” share is affordable price. Why? because the masses can afford to own and drive it.

    Something to think about…


  46. 46
    Van

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Van
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (8:51 pm)

    I too seem to recall GM indicating a Plug in Vue with a 10 AER would be on the market in 2009. However, I believe that date has slipped to 2011.


  47. 47
    Grizzly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Grizzly
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (9:24 pm)

    It looks like they’re planning for 2010 and a 10mi AER

    http://tinyurl.com/6bk4da


  48. 48
    ThombDbhomb

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ThombDbhomb
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (9:25 pm)

    #44 Brian M

    The Jan. 14, 2008 GM announcement (see link below) said “Saturn Vue Green Line Plug-in Hybrid SUV May Begin Production in 2010.” So, a 2009/10 Plug-in Saturn VUE doesn’t seem likely.

    http://www.gm.com/explore/fuel_economy/news/2008/hybrids/plug_in_vue_011008.jsp


  49. 49
    McLovin McFly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    McLovin McFly
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (9:59 pm)

    Looks like a fuel cell mule.

    #28 Ruby

    I too would like to see a plug free EREV, equipped with a smaller battery and at a greatly reduced price.


  50. 50
    Brian M

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Brian M
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:01 pm)

    #48: OK, I thought you were saying it might not be built at all.


  51. 51
    Ron

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ron
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (10:45 pm)

    #38 Butters,
    If the primary concern for a vehicle was cost/benefit analysis numbers, not one single NEW car would ever be purchased. I can buy a nice used Corolla for $5000 and it will give me 100K+ miles of faithful service. I could also buy a new top-o-the-line BMW for $90,000(?) and get that same 100K+ miles of service. Cost/benefit says that nobody should ever buy a Beemer, but last time I checked, BMW was selling every car they make!

    The Volt is just another entry in the long list of things I’ve either already purchased or plan to that can’t be justified based on cost/benefit. Some others include a private pilots license, a Stihl chainsaw, a diesel pickup, a fishing boat, several motorcycles, 3 bicycles, Turkish bathroom tile, oak furniture, a swimming pool, and 6 acres of land. I justify most of these things with “because I want it” and I make no apologees for any of them.


  52. 52
    srschrier

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    srschrier
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:06 pm)

    Dr. Patil of Compact Power discusses the Volt’s battery pack in this April 17 audio interview:

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/04/17/sae-congress-08-qanda-with-dr-patil-of-compact-power/


  53. 53
    nasaman

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:22 pm)

    Re: GM’s Plug-in VUE….

    NOTE: My technical analysis/dissertation on the Plug-in Vue design, which I faxed to GM in summary form at the request of the General Manager of Saturn (Jill Lajdziak) in January this year and gave to Bob Lutz personally in March in NYC, concludes that the Vue design should be capable of approximately 35 miles AER by employing the Chevy Volt’s 16KWh battery as an added-cost option. Although I DO NOT WANT a discussion of the Plug-in VUE to distract from our primary topic here —the Chevy Volt— I’ll be glad to provide the 2-page dissertation I gave to Bob Lutz to anyone here who requests it by PMing me through the gm-volt.com forum….

    http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2150#post2150


  54. 54
    Grizzly

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Grizzly
     Says

     

    Apr 17th, 2008 (11:27 pm)

    Ron #51

    Correct. The issue of the Volt paying for itself has been discussed over and over on this board.

    If anyone had to sell their pickup or sedan and justifying the cost of a new Prius paying for itself with gas savings over an extended period they probably wouldn’t be able to.

    That said, since when is the Prius necessarily competition for the Volt? One is an Hybrid and the other is a range extended EV. One is a performance car and the other is supposedly a green car. Turns out that in this instance, the performance car is not only greener, it’s also more frugal. How is it that these two are necessarily direct competitors?


  55. 55
    MLRTYME

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MLRTYME
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (12:38 am)

    Grizzly… right again. We’re comparing apples to oranges. Those who like the Prius will purchase the Prius. Those who like the Volt will purchase the volt. I believe the asking price that GM dictates upon rollout will help any fence-sitters decide for themselves which is the car for them.

    I suspect that this debate needs to be answered by each person individually. How do you intend to drive the car? What are your current driving needs? What is your limit for purchase price?

    This silly rivalry between the Prius and the Volt cannot and will not be solved by groups…only individuals. I argue with my brothers that driving a dragster is better than their funny cars. We both make valid points. However, there is no black and white…only the shade of gray that suits you!


  56. 56
    MLRTYME

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MLRTYME
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (12:40 am)

    BTW…Lyle, thanks for the clarification. It’s nice to know there is a place we can count on for valid, up-to-date information. I know the car is a long ways off, but your efforts to provide current and reliable information are appreciated.


  57. 57
    jscott1000

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jscott1000
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (1:51 am)

    Thanks for the clarification Lyle…

    I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the Volt will be marketed at a competitive price regardless of how much it costs to build. I don’t think the market will support a small Chevy car that costs over $40K unless it says “Corvette” on it somewhere. Expect the Volt to be in the low $30s.


  58. 58
    Bryon

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Bryon
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (7:42 am)

    THe federal Government needs to get behind this new technology and be proactive!!

    How about giving GM tax breaks for making the cars, and the consumer tax breaks for buying them, and hears a thought how about passing the bill before the first VOLT rolls off the assembly line. But i guess thats probably wishful thinking.


  59. 59
    jabroni

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jabroni
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (8:46 am)

    Don’t you just envy these guys who test drive and tinker with the mules?


  60. 60
    Jason The Saj

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jason The Saj
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (11:12 am)

    Regarding…
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-great-hybrid-showdown-chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius/

    TOTALLY WORTHLESS ARTICLE, BIASED is an understatement. Summary of just the first page and comments.

    ***

    gas -electric plug-in
    (Seems bias to call the volt a gas-electric plug-in, when it is really an electric drive-train with gas aux. So I’d at least place electric first.)

    “efficiency-optimized (non-E85)”
    (Has this been stated by GM that the generator will be non-E85 ???)

    “The Volt’s target price started at $30k. More recently, GM’s Car Czar declared that the Volt would sell for about $48k.”
    (The target price was originally $20K+, and has been declared to be closer to $30K. And if you factored in development would need $40K. But development is usually spread over the life of a vehicle and/or platform. )

    “Even if plug-in hybrids are driven on cycles that maximize their EV range, greenhouse gas (GHG) reductions are surprisingly modest, and highly dependent on the carbon-intensity of the electric source.”

    Okay, so after decades of the fact that a power plant releases let emissions because it’s a single source with more advanced scrubbing technology. We’re now dismissing that fact just to oppose the Chevy Volt.

    He totally fails to mention solar panels on homes and garages could supply the fuel and make it completely free for short trips. Of course, he’s already cut the range of the Volt dramatically to 20 miles or less, and raised the cost of a Volt to $48K. Sorry, I don’t think he’s comparing the vehicle GM is actually building.

    “But let’s be clear: both eco-consciousness and the Toyota Prius have moved beyond fads, into fully blown trends. (Federal legislation sealed the deal.)”

    Yes it did, and it also killed GM’s EV1 pure electric. Thank you Toyota!!!!! For always taking the easy road.

    “Most people looking for this kind of vehicle don’t care about speed and performance, they care about saving (gas, the environment, their own money, etc).”

    Small thinking for a small crowd = no solution. If the only people to buy Prius’ are that small crowd you speak of. Then we’re doomed. Yes, I own a Prius as a commuter vehicle. And it is quite lacking on a number of facets. Eventually, everyone who is soley about gas & environment will own a Prius. But 95% of the population won’t.

    We need to get beyond that small crowd to the majority market.

    “If anyone remembers, Maximum Bob staked GM’s repuation late 2007 on bringing the Volt by Easter 2008.”

    Can someone reference this. Because I’ve always heard 2010 as the date.

    “The Volt is just plain hideous”
    Maybe to you, but to 90% of the people…it’s actually considered quite sexy and attractive.

    “is anyone ACTUALLY looking forward to the Chevy Volt coming to market? ”
    Yes, thousands…

    “Whereas, there seems to be more anticipation for the Prius.”
    Really? I hear very little buz about the 3rd Gen Prius. Even from the Prius owner groups I’m on.

    “GM’s Volt is more expensive WITHOUT generating a profit for them and doesn’t actually bear better fruit than the Prius. ”
    So we skew all the numbers to worst case scenarios. Forget the fact the Prius wasn’t profitable to begin with either. And then dismiss a vehicle that isn’t out yet. Hmm…BIASED…just a little eh?


  61. 61
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jean-Charles Jacquemin
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (12:05 pm)

    Thanks Lyle, hard facts are the best things we have found in this site and I’m sure we shall also get them in the future.


  62. 62
    noel park

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    noel park
     Says

     

    Apr 18th, 2008 (3:38 pm)

    #60 Jason The Saj:

    Where ya been man? Welcome back. Y’all come!


  63. 63
    jbfalaska

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jbfalaska
     Says

     

    Apr 19th, 2008 (9:07 pm)

    I drive Buicks for GM quality reasons, sportiness, and gas efficiency. 3 Regals right now in my garage. Waiting for the Quietude of the Chevy Volt.

    More importantly

    CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American FUELED. Buy American
    Retired US Air Force veteran.


  64. 64
    jbfalaska

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jbfalaska
     Says

     

    Apr 19th, 2008 (9:12 pm)

    True commenter – the Prius wasn’t profitable for quite some time. Now look at Toyota rolling in American dollars.

    Let’s get the Volt on the road. I have my $10,000 deposit ready to go today.

    Thanks

    CHEVY VOLT: American-made, Union-made, American-FUELED

    As a retired US Air Force veteran, this car will do more to help us win in the Middle-East than all the bullets and bombs put on target. Let’s hope the next administration takes this approach for our country’s sake to heart. And for the men and women fighting over there. Go General Motors.


  65. 65
    Lauren

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Lauren
     Says

     

    Apr 25th, 2008 (11:01 am)

    If the Volt comes out, when, and how much will it cost. Will it have the same body as the concept, or just any other car? Oh and when will the concept comaro come out?


  66. 66
    Mark

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark
     Says

     

    Aug 9th, 2008 (6:02 pm)

    No, those wires are John McSame’s pacemaker wires!!