GM Has Given the Volt Team a Blank Check
I’ve tried to find out how much the E-Flex/Volt program is costing GM, I’ve asked the top VPs. They are only willing to say that they know but generally do not disclose those numbers publicly. The Wall Street Journal has previously reported nearly $1 Billion is being spent, but that is unverified.
When talking with anyone on the Volt leadership team, they will tell you the company is sparing no expense and that money is no object. A typical quote is "if I tell them I need something, they give me the budget."
Here is a new article on the topic published in the Automotive News, and reprinted in the Hartford Courant, that one of our readers wanted to share:
DETROIT -General Motors wants the gasoline-electric Chevrolet Volt on the road by 2010 so badly that program managers have been given a blank check, reported Automotive News Magazine.
They can get as much manpower and resources as they need.
"The Volt is the No.1 priority project we have at GM. There are no resource shortfalls," said Frank Weber, Volt global vehicle line executive. "Whatever it takes, we will do. We are working with incredible speed."
Battery testing to simulate 10 years and 150,000 miles of usage is going on around the clock in labs in Detroit and Germany.
The production version will not look like the concept car. It has morphed into a fairly conventional-looking four-door sedan with a sloping roof and a high rear-end treatment that has a built-in spoiler.
Source (Automotive News - subscription required )
Thanks to Joe for the tip - and note what is said about the design.
Popularity: 4%
Related posts:
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- GM has Formed new Engineering Team for Hybrids, E-REVs, and Batteries
- GM Expands Chevy Volt/E-Flex Leadership Team
- Detroit 3 Viability Plans Go To Congress Today: GM’s CEO Will Drive to DC in Hybrid Malibu
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67 Responses to “GM Has Given the Volt Team a Blank Check”
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April 13th, 2008 at 8:35 am
It would seem that GM is grabbing the bull by the horns. Great to see and quite exciting. Go GM!
April 13th, 2008 at 8:50 am
I just can’t wait to buy one!!! Go GM, go!!
April 13th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I heard a more believeable report of $400,000,000, which would put each of the 10,000 Volt’s cost at $40,000.
What is saving the costs for GM is how quickly they are moving. Schedule is more costly than any other factor.
April 13th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I’m waiting too. I can’t wait to get one. I concept is pretty cool. I hope the final version doesn’t differ too much from that. I don’t want an electric dork box, I want something cool.
April 13th, 2008 at 10:08 am
I think this shows that GM has acknowledged their past mistakes, and is now on the right track!!!!
We are rooting for you GM, and the entire Volt project team!!!!!
April 13th, 2008 at 10:39 am
GM has been sparing no expense on it’s recent new models, with great results. The Chev Malibu, Cadillac CTS, Buick Enclave, Pontiac Solstice, Chev Camaro, Pontiac G8 and the new trucks and SUV’s all exemplify GM’s focus on excellent product, not expenses. If those models are any indication the Volt is going to exceed expectations and be the final step in the turnaround.
April 13th, 2008 at 10:42 am
it is nice to see that the volt project is so important. I really hope that there will be some kind of tax rebate involved from the government considering that there is a tax rebate when it comes to regular hybrids. This is very exciting.
April 13th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Here’s Toyota, who has had a mass produced hybrid car since 1997, and definitely has the reputation as “THE” hybrid car company. Do-it-yourself engineers have been converting Prisses to PHEVs in their garages since 2004. I’ve driven one and they work pretty darn well. Yet, Toyota may loose the race for “for sale to the public” PHEVs.
Contrast that to GM. GM came from no hybrid car at all in early 2004, to a “designed from the ground-up” car like the electric drive E-REV Volt, “for sale to the public” by 2010!
April 13th, 2008 at 10:56 am
GM, please make 60,000 units the first year!!
April 13th, 2008 at 11:05 am
I heard a more believeable report of $400,000,000, which would put each of the 10,000 Volt’s cost at $40,000.
What is saving the costs for GM is how quickly they are moving. Schedule is more costly than any other factor.
That would only be if the incremental cost of building a Volt were zero dollars. $400 million would only be the cost of development. You still have to build each car; pay the workers, purchase the batteries for each car, market them, etc. The batteries alone are supposed to be $10g each.
Lutz has mentioned that the “cost” of selling a Volt with no profit would be about $40g… that would be separate from the development costs.
Hence the true cost of the first 10k volts would be more like $80g. However, the development costs would really be spread over the entire production, not just the first years production, of course.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:19 am
In an age of CAFE as a government mandate, one cannot think of the cost or profit margin of a Volt alone. One has to think of the cost and profit margin of a Volt together with one or two other vehicles which as a duo or trio meet the CAFE requirement (remembering that CAFE= “corporate average..”). So if one Volt at little or no profit allows the sale of 2 Silverado trucks (or Cadillacs, or Hummers, or whatever) at a higher profit margin, the it is worth doing the Volt, maybe even at a loss if considered as a distinct product. The economic corollary is that Volt is worth more to GM in a place with a higher CAFE such as California.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Normally I would be saying this is great news.
But they are really “dummying” this car down too much now.
If they have an open budget, then build this car right.
Sorry for the semi-negative comment, but the gas tank thing
really ticks me off.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I keep having the distinct feeling that the EEStor devices will work as advertised and that this will become known later this year when
ZENN is scheduled to use first ones off the assembly line to convert existing cars. If it works, then the Volt will undoubtedly morph into a battery-only electric.
ZENN Motors only has exclusive use of those solid state devices for cars under 2800 pounds, and when used for conversions. So there’s nothing to prevent GM from buying them, as far as I can see.
April 13th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
As far as I know, there isn’t any proof that EEStor devices work as advertised. I sincerely hope they do because I think the 300 mile range plus an ICE will be a perfect marriage.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
First, the fact that GM will expend the resources necessary to bring the Volt to market tells me a couple of things:
1) First, they are committed to manufacturing this vehicle
2) They have faith that it will work (otherwise, funding would be used sparingly until they were convinced it would).
With that said, and now knowing that this is a real program, I expect some level of misinformation to begin. Bob Lutz has stated at the VoltNation event that the Volt will have about a 50 mile AER when the batteries are new and an expected 0-60 time of 7 seconds. That is very favorable, and probably true.
However, in light of the recent press day in MI for the Volt, the competition is now watching closer than ever. We have been told that the batteries from both vendors are meeting specifications (although, we don’t know exactly what GM’s specifications are!). These were considered the crucial items for this car.
All indications to the world (and the competition) is that these vehicles work, and they will be on the market soon (2 to 3 years, as planned).
At this juncture, it is not advantageous for GM to provide too many details. Note that Jon Lauchner told one journalist the drag coefficient for the Volt was sub 0.30. When the journalist asked for the actual number, Jon’s response was “nice try”.
The car’s price has been discussed as being anywhere from the original 25 k to as much as 50 k. Now we are hearing about range limitations with a smaller fuel tank and a more conservative exterior design. All this, IMHO, is designed to keep the competition guessing.
GM is onto something big and they know it.
#12 Rashiid,
I myself don’t like the compromise that GM has mentioned regarding the fuel tank, but consider what I have just said above. Also look at the picture of the new fuel tank. Although we don’t know its dimensions, one cubic foot equates to 7.5 gallons. So if this tank is 18 inches wide, 18 inches long, and can hold 9″ of gasoline, its capacity is 12.6 gallons.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I have some advice for Bob Lutz, Rick Wagoner, & all the execs at GM.
Build the Volt, at a loss, and don’t expect things to change for the first five years.
Take your lumps, just like Toyota did with the Prius.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Blank check? GM ?? Huh????
I wonder if it was Wagoner or Lutz or both that twisted the board members arms behind their backs to the tune of…. “UNCLE”. They must be tougher than they look because for the past 20 or so that board of “D” never wanted to spend a dime.
This is definitely a new GM!
April 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I’m a long time fan / lurker of this fantastic site.
I have no doubt that the Volt is the most important project at GM. I’ve been reading that in various reports for more than a year now.
My take on the Volt is this…
1. It’s superior engineering. The fact that this design will allow 80% of the owners to commute back and forth to their workplace solely on electric power is a game changer for the US economy.
2. When the Volt does roll off the production line (at an initial premium price), the thrifty but complicated Prius will finally begin to be viewed for what it really is: a Rube Goldberg invention on steroids. Here is a link to the complexity I’m referring to…
http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/prius-technical-info
Yes, it’s available now and it gets unbelievably great gas mileage but simplicity is always better in the long haul. GM should highlight this fact in their future advertising. Use the phrase “One Moving Part !”
3. The Volt (and other E-REV vehicles as they appear) will be regarded as more of a long term investment with financing to match.
The one area of the Volt I’m anxious to learn more about is the 1.0 Liter/Flex Fuel GenSet. I hope that GM has designed in “modularity”.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Is that $400 million to date? Or the expected final R&D cost? It probably doesn’t include all the normal costs of production startup which will probably be larger than normal becauses so many of the parts are going to be unlike those for any other car.
I wouldn’t be surprised at $1 billion and I don’t think that would set any records.
$10e9 / $10e5 = $10e4 or $10K in R&D and startup costs per Volt for the first 100K Volts. Not an insurmountable cost but certainly a significant one.
Oh, we also consider the time value of money. A GM’s junk rating, we’re probably looking at nearer $1.5 billion. Ouch.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Kent @ 13, “ZENN is scheduled to use first ones off the assembly line to convert existing cars. If it works, then the Volt will undoubtedly morph into a battery-only electric”
Where did you get the info they’re only going to CONVERT carts?
On the above-mentioned topic of a “blank check,” GM is playing a dangerous game. Whenever the federal government has a “blank check” like in Iraq or some of their damn military contracts, they go over budget by trillions. Set your limits, set your goals, and get the darn thing done on schedule.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I read an article recently about global platform sharing. When the Ford Escort was introduced in North America in 1990, it was re-engineered for the European market to the tune of $1 billion. It turned out to be a complete dud in Europe and a whole new small car needed to be designed. If the Volt only costs $1 billion to design it would be a bargain. A successful Volt would give GM technological leadership in the automotive industry, a platform for a global electric car, and a model for electric cars in the future. For the 5th largest company in the world, with annual sales near $200 billion, a blank cheque for the Volt makes complete sense.
April 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
“But, Weber said, those won’t be full-speed highway miles. Instead, the Volt should be able to reach 40 miles of electric-only range in city and highway driving.”
I guess highway driving is more strenuous than city driving for electric drivetrain cars? I’m pretty certain this is new news.
Here’s the complete article:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080404/COPY/70705572/1186/ane
April 13th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I also beieve as BillR stated that GM is (or should) keep SOME of it’s cards close to the vest. I wish their corporate image could stand releasing some DIS imformation, but I don’t think they have that capitol to spend. Being this candid about the development process is unprecedented for a reason.
I’d love to see the biggest piece of information to be “dishonest” - the release date! If they released it a year EARLY….. It’s hard to imagine the excitement THAT would cause.
April 13th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Charlie H #19
“Oh, we also consider the time value of money. A GM’s junk rating, we’re probably looking at nearer $1.5 billion. Ouch.”
*** *** *** ****
This is another thing about the Volt that people overlook. If the Volt is a success, even if not making money right off the bat it’ll do wonders for the price of GM stock. If Wall Street becomes bullish on GM this means they get more for each share of stock sold and helps their financial position as well as their ability to fund new products. It’s part of the success of any pub-held company.
April 13th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Grizzly, unless GM issues new stock it doesn’t matter what the price is to GM’s ability to fund new products. However, if the market does become bullish on GM’s future it could make it cheaper to get new debt financing.
April 13th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Dan,
There are so many classes of stock that at any given time any could be issued for any purpose, even preferred which has no equity attached.
Long story short, it’s good to be viewed as a leader and a company on the rise, and that holds for all companies, even private to a lesser degree.
April 13th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Sounds like GM needs to get real and get ahold of their budget, like Tesla did earlier this year. Going over the top with spending doesn’t do anyone any good. Ever increasing Volt car prices due to a boundless budget won’t result in more cars being sold.
It sounds like it is time to ship Volt 1.0 with stuff like off-the-shelf windshield wipers, instead of super-efficient wipers. Save the gold-plating for Volt 2.0 and start getting the income rolling in by getting Volt 1.0 to market now.
April 13th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Tagamet #23
This has been done two months ago in Western Europe with the Hybrid-diesel Peugeot 308, it was announced for 2010 and Peugeot announced it will be in the showrooms of Peugeot dealerships for mid-2009.
April 13th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
GM could sell existing stock that they own to provide income.
My only concern for GM is that they may have let the cat out of the bag a year early and given enough time for honda or toyota to come out with a similar design in 2009, stealing the prize away from GM.
And I am surprised to read about people upset about the smaller gas tank and how it impacts the range of the car. Just fill and drive for another 4-5 hours. Doesn’t seem like to much of a burden to me after all I do have to pee periodically anyway and I only take super long trips maybe once a year so the small tank equates to 1 extra fill up a year.
April 13th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Jean-Charles and Omegaman,
That’s why an ‘09 release would be so cool. “Expect the unexpected”!!
April 13th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Tag #29
I would too, but I’ve got to tell you that even 2010 is the “unexpected” for many in the know. I like the pace they’re working at and no time is too soon to say the least, but realistically let’s hope for 2010.
April 13th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Exp-EngTech #18
Here’s another “demo” site showing the Toyota HSD. Scroll down and play with the sliders to see the relationship between the power sources and MPH.
It seems complicated, but it does a good job of combining the power sources w/o a clutch, and ending up with a Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT).
http://eahart.com/prius/psd/
April 13th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
just to play devil’s advocate for a sec….
1) how much did tesla motors spend to create their new EV high end sports car ?
2) Tesla’s battery pack is supposed to get 200+ miles from a single charge. Now I don’t know it’s dimensions vs. what is targeted for the Volt…but I can’t image its that much of a difference. If it’s double the size…then their equivalent distance for a Volt sized unit would be 100+ miles. My point is….why can’t GM get the same kind of mileage out of their battery technology….as Tesla projects to get ?
-BMD
April 13th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
It takes money to make money. As stated elsewhere on this site, it will cost GM a lot if they don’t develop something green. Clearly, the world wants fuel efficient, low-pollution vehicles without sacrificing comforts, conveniences, power, and size. GM is shrewdly open about the Volt because the Volt is sufficiently tantalizing to make people wait to purchase their “green” car. Waiting for the Volt stopped me from buying a Prius, so far. However, GM needs to deliver on the promise of the Volt in a timely fashion. Those of us waiting for GM can only keep our old cars going for a limited time. If the Volt is not available when I absolutley must buy a car, I am going to give some other car manufacturer my business.
April 13th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I’ll take my volt tomorrow if it is ready. GM send me a mule. I’ll report back and keep accurate records for you. 239 410-8826. Florida would be a good test location. TED
April 13th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
#32
The Tesla battery is more than triple the size of the Volt. The Volt battery is 16KWH, while Telsa’s is 53KWH. In addition, The Volt team claims to get 5-6 miles/KWH while Tesla claims to get over over 7 miles/KWH.
I’d love to know why they’re so different. It could be the size/aerodynamics of a 2-seater sports car allows more miles/KWH than a 4-seater sedan.
April 13th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
argh, a built-in rear spoiler
My current car’s trim level came with a spoiler…. the dealer was able to take it off and credited me with what it would have cost to have added it to a lower trim level.
I hate spoilers! Unless it really decreases the drag, which conventional wisdom doesn’t make sense it would, since spoilers (from my understanding) on real sports cars are designed to push the vehicle down so it grabs the road better.
April 13th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
#32
Telsa is probably also driving their battery pack harder and not limiting it to 30% - 80% depth of discharge.
GM is effectively only using half of the 16 kwh of the battery pack. So Tesla could be effectively using 6 times the energy of the Volt if they use the whole pack.
April 13th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
BMD
Swim
This has been discussed many times before. Tesla is using off-the-shelf laptop batteries that have never proven themselves in duration.
I’ve argued chemistry vs rogue cells to the limit on this site, but quite frankly I don’t know how they’ll settle that battery and its performance a few years down the road. Simple math by the kw/h tells us that to affect 250 miles the 53kwh pack would need to be discharged down to about damn near zero on every cycle. How they’ll settle the life issue and their warranty is up to them, but I wouldn’t want any part of it.
April 13th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
#36 Jeff M, Given what the Volt must achieve and the limitations of critical systems, It’s very doubtful that GM would put a spoiler on that didn’t mean business.
April 13th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Off topic, but I posted another photoshop guess picture on the forum site.
April 13th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Pic is here:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/newthread.php?do=postthread&f=6
April 13th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
No it’s not. It’s HERE (lol):
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1906#post1906
April 13th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
YUP, that worked.
April 13th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I sure hope that picture is bogus. It would have limited headroom in the rear seat and a very small truck.
April 13th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
As I said: Just a guess.
April 13th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
April 13th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
#47 Bend over and crack a Large Smile
I guess your name pretty much states what you are.
April 13th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
BillR
Please don’t feed the trolls (or the cretins)
April 13th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Tag,
Sorry, that one was just too fitting to pass up!
April 14th, 2008 at 3:50 am
#48, BillR…Well said, my friend. Well said.
Goes ditto for me as well.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:55 am
#34, ThombDbhomb
Agreed. With 160,000 mile on my current car, I too am waiting for the Volt to come out. But if they keep “dumbing” it down, while raising the price, I will look elsewhere to buy a “green” car. I think by 2011, there will be plenty of competition to the Volt. GM needs to be this right and make it “nicely below 30K”.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:57 am
Tag, #43,
That pic does look nice, but wow does it look small.
I realize that it is a guess, but did you scale the size to the
tape covered car?
April 14th, 2008 at 5:06 am
Rashiid #52,
Same for me Rashiid.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Blank check has plus and minuses…
Even GM needs to make profit to survive…like any other company. How can a business case be made for the Volt if loses money unless their business plan shows a profit? Does a business plan exist? Will GM share the highlights with us?
April 14th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Rashiid #53
I didn’t “do” the pic. I got it on Green Car Congress. It IS hard to get an idea of actual size from the pics, but the concept car looked to be a good size and seemed a lot larger than a Prius (my daughter had one of those - great car, but I wouldn’t want to be in the back seat for long)
April 14th, 2008 at 11:30 am
#17 Grizzley:
Well I think that GM management finally realized that they were looking down the barrel of the cannon of doom. Frankly, I had just about given up, but the Volt initiative has given me guarded new hope. I think that many comments from Mr. Lutz only confirm that this is true. Either reclaim the technological high ground or perish.
#54 Jean-Charles Jacquemin:
Me too.
#56 Tagamet:
Well it sure works for me. From the comments I have seen recently, including the article quoted by Lyle at the top of this thread, I had sort of resigned myself that it wouldn’t be that sporty, but bring it on says I. Always assuming that they can get the Cd where they need it. Do you think that this version will get to 0.25?
April 14th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Noel:
With as much time as they appear to be spending in the wind tunnel, I would hope they can get the C/D down to almost 2.0!!!!!
April 14th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
#58 Jim I:
Now that would be something to brag about.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
#18 Your link showing the technical complexity of the Prius starts off with a diagram. The Volt design includes EVERY component on that diagram except the Power Split Device, which is a planetary gear small enough to hold in your hand. The planetary gear is very robust and would probably last 10 car lifetimes.
Prius control software, on the other hand, is quite complex. But software has no wear parts.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Every time GM management mentions this, remember that Congress already authorized and the President already signed authorization to pay for R and D of such a vehicle. When it hits the road, GM is going to send their congressmen and congresswomen a bill for the R and D of the Volt, with a note that says “you authorized it, now it’s time to appropriate it, so we can recover the cost of your unfunded mandate.”
If you are a taxpayer, you are investing in this car.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
#60 Eco:
Suits me. As a taxpayer, I am investing in a whole lot of other stuff that I like a lot less. And maybe this car can help to save some of that other investment.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Agree the wind tunnel numbers need to be decent, and the roofline can’t have tall guys craning their neck. But I sincerely hope this thing doesn’t wind up looking like your standard issue white bread sedan…
April 14th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
#62 StevePA:
Well I seriously doubt that anything with a Cd of 0.20, or even 0.25, is going to look like a standard issue white bread sedan. That said, I agree with you on both counts. Although……I think that someone said here the other day that a 2008 Corolla has a Cd of 0.29! If so, Toyota has done some sort of magic I don’t understand.
BTW, I agree completely with your comment on the range thread above. My experience is exactly the same as yours.
April 15th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I am really sad that
“The production version will not look like the concept car. It has morphed into a fairly conventional-looking four-door sedan with a sloping roof and a high rear-end treatment that has a built-in spoiler.”
I really liked the look of the concept car. The new revised look is okay, but does not invoke the same emotion that the original concept had which made me take notice.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:13 am
GM probably has a secondary motivation. They want to be seen as “moving ahead” and thereby eventually justifying a government take over of their large pension & health care costs.
Even if the first version is a flop, they will get credit for trying hard and making a clear break from past US automaker practices.
“Who Killed the Electric Car” probably hurt them more than they let on.
Oh regarding coefficient of drag. It is not widely understood but the total drag on a vehicle equals the coefficient drag multiplied by the frontal cross sectional area. So real drag should be in “meters (or feet) squared”.
I’ve never seen any auto magazine report the total drag numbers, which is of course what matters.
I bet the total drag on an efficient vehicle will be lower than a Corolla.
April 20th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
All this talk about price to production…
I find it funny how soon we forget (or just weren’t aware) that the price to production on the then brand new Ford Taurus was
$1 Billion.
With a “B”.
And that was back in 1986 dollars.
I’m sure one of you out there can convert that into today’s money…
Hey GM!!!
WAY TO GO!
You just may finally have a vehicle to take me away from my current brand that I’ve been with for the past 30 years.
I’m even willing to learn a new cockpit.
Switch and wiper lever locations etc.
As long as the battery pack can survive the heat out here near Death Valley,… sign me up…
One last thought….
The smaller fuel tank is a great idea…
Since most of my driving will be on batts, the fuel in a large tank would probably go bad before I had a chance to use it.
A smaller tank means I don’t have to drive to Reno just to replenish with new fuel. Then again, I could always add STABIL or something.
What about a diesel option for the genset?
Sincerely,
Paul B.