Comments on: E-Flex/Chevy Volt Battery Lab Tour and Update

By: Jerry

Jerry — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:23:23 +0000

#74 Noel
Yep, I’ve heard all that, too. It’s like they can’t see the forest for the trees. At 55, I remember when them “Japanese” cars were few and far between in the Roanoke, VA area. I also remember listening to many disgruntled friends saying, “I’m tired of poor quality American cars. Japanese cars are better.” Now think back to Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima, etc. and tell me who won the war afterall. It’s one of those, “You reap what you sow” examples for what the “Buy Foreign” mentality has done to GM, Ford, Chrysler… America.

I know the Toyota / Honda plant(s) in the US employ Americans but you’re right, the leftover $$ go back to the homeland. Let’s convert those plants (and the employees) to 2009 Cobalt and Chevy Volt facilities. Nahhh, let’s don’t…all this foreign stuff is good for competition…gives us more selection…weeds out the weak American companies that pay their workers too much.

Well, I’ve said too much…this really isn’t the forum for this, so I apologize. I guess it all started with the Chevy Volt possibly being “Made in China”. Ohhh!! The thought of it!!!

By: noel park

noel park — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:00:59 +0000

#73 Jerry:

As I can see the handwriting on the wall re delivery of the Volt, I started thinking about getting another, better mileage, car to bridge over. There are quite a few rumors about the 2009 Cobalt – restyled, possible 6 speed automatic and possible 1.4L turbo engine. Made in Lordstown, Ohio. All good.

Then I saw the news that 2009 Cobalt production will be moved to Mexico.

Non-starter.

A lot of folks here have reminded me that many “Japanese” cars are manufactured in the US, using American workers. I have always said, “No way, Japanese profits go back to Japan.” Now we have the spectacle of “American” cars being built overseas with overseas workers. What is a Chevy loyalist to do? Is it more important to have US jobs, or profits for US corporations? Does it make any sort of useful statement to drive around in a car with a bowtie on the front which was made in Korea? Alas!!!

By: Jerry

Jerry — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:19:25 +0000

For months now I have been following the progress of the Volt, hoping GM (America) will reap the rewards of their efforts into this “Next Generation” vehicle. Unlike in the past, the public may now be ready to buy electric vehicles because of $4.00/gal gas. Marketing the Chevy Volt will be much easier and more convincing to the public than during the EV-1 timeframe. I’ve been set on buying one even if it cost above $30,000. Kinda my way of spittin tobacca juice in the eyes of Hugo Chavez, Ahmadinejad, etc. for the high dollar crude. PLUS, I would like to see an American car company excell in America. (Silly, huh.) But, today I had the wind kicked out of me after stumbling on some posts suggesting that GM will build the Chevy Volt in China. This is exactly what I will not support. I want to see America get turned around in my lifetime. I’m tired of seeing “Made in China” on everything. Please GM, say it isn’t so.

By: noel park

noel park — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:53:48 +0000

#68 MLRTYME:

We run a 55 and a 58 Corvette in the vintage road races. We are also restoring a 1917 Chevrolet which was converted into a “speedster” in the early ’20s in honor of the 100th anniversary. It will have a 5 gallon fuel cell. We hope that it will get somewhat better mileage than the 265 and the 283 in our other cars.

By: Jean-Charles Jacquemin

Jean-Charles Jacquemin — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:33:09 +0000

John, #70

It is just a matter of choice for the consumers and a way of elaborating the good fiscal incentives. This video and report is just an additional piece of information for the citizen who wants to have a critical view on the advertizing of car companies.

I’m sure your PZEV beats both vehicles in the test.

By: john1701a

john1701a — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:03:02 +0000

What debate? Ignoring price & emission-rating and using selective numbers, it’s easy to greenwash. The same precedent you setup for the competition will later be used on Volt too. Be careful.

The 95,500 miles of real-world data from my PZEV clearly reveal the true story.

By: Jean-Charles Jacquemin

Jean-Charles Jacquemin — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:56:49 +0000

Just to add a little to the debate on the Toyota Prius vs other cars, the Battery Vehicle Society run a test between a Diesel BMW5 and a Prius between London and and Geneva.

The movie of this test may be found here and guess what : the Prius didn’t won on the mileage.

Link : http://www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/wordpress/?p=394

By: MLRTYME

MLRTYME — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:39:15 +0000

64 Economist… well said. Moving forward, it will be difficult to justify using your volt to go pick up sheets of plywood to help build the addition to your house (or whatever…) but knowing that you don’t have to drive a full-size truck all the time makes perfect financial and ecological sense. Rent that U-Haul Silverado when you need it.

Also, even vehicles that run only via ICE’s are becoming more financially and ecologically friendly. We see cars getting 35-40 MPG more frequently, and the numbers continue to rise in most occasions. Even for those who chose not to buy a hybrid, there are other options on the showroom floors currently, that get MUCH better gas mileage than their 1998 Oldsmobile (or pick your older full-size vehicle here).

As options increase (even the Hybrid Tahoe), we see people choosing better options than what they had just two years ago. Heck, even making sure your current car is tuned up correctly and has a clean fuel system will do a part (albeit very small) towards reaching long term goals.

Noel…I have to ask. What type of cars do you race? Mag, Ti, and carbon are expensive, so I’m interested to know what you run. Our family runs a small NHRA race team so I had to ask. And yes, the tank is my car holds only 7.5 gallons and I’ll use about 4.5 per 1/4 mile, so we only fill it to 5.5. Keep that weight down in those ICE cars!

By: CM

CM — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:38:20 +0000

There could be several reasons for GM to retain both battery suppliers:

The demand might outstrip the production capabilities of either batters supplier – they might need both!

They might decide to use the LG/CPI packs in the Asian and European E-Flex models, and use the A123/Cont packs for North and South American E-Flex versions.

If one is higer energy and the other higher power, they could use the high energy packs in longer EV range vehicles, and use the high pwer packs for ripping performance cars! Anyone for an E-Flex Corvette? E-Vette!

By: economist

economist — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:31:43 +0000

Some people here seem to think that electrics have to completely replace internal combustion engines instantly to be meaningful. Not so. First, anything takes time to adopt, even if there is massive desire for change. Production of 10,000 electrics a year sounds like a nice, easy first baby step. Second, in its present state, electric based transportation is best viewed as more of a complement than a substitute. That doesn’t mean there’s no market for it – quite the opposite, it’s a market expander. Electrics are far superior at most things than an internal combustion engine (ICE). ICEs excel at non-stop range and, currently, rapid refueling. The beauty of electrics is we need pretty much no change in our infrastructure or behavior to use them and the benefits (such as to national security) are immediate and can be accomplished by individual action. Buy an attractive, new electric vehicle and save a soldier’s life. Who knew that environmentalists were patriotic (hint: they care about handing over a relatively undamaged county to our descendants and recognize that a healthy environment makes for healthy people (or do you want increased health costs instead?))? As electric vehicle adoption become greater, we can slowly modify our infrastructure to best match actual transportation mixes changing over time, which will include a saturation of faster refueling options. Finally, rentals and multiple vehicles have their roles, now and in the future. Does everyone own a moving truck because they move once every few years. Why own a long range vehicle when you can rent a different one each year for your extended family vacation or other long distance road travel? Many people/families own both bicycles (and/or motorcycles) AND a car (and/or a truck), etc. Based on the average American’s schizophrenic driving habits, I would think that owning some variant of an electric vehicle (for errands and up to moderate commutes), leasing a battery, and renting a long range and/or heavy duty vehicle once in a while would work best.

For example you could rent a Lamborghini Murciélago once in a while, if you could, for fun, and tear around at top speed for an hour. Then, when you run out of gas, despite having a 26.4 gallon gas tank, your spouse could come pick you up in a Tesla Roadster, an electric car, which has a longer range than the Lambo and similar mid-range performance, despite having more than 300 horsepower less. See, complementary.

Yes, for now a Range Extended Electric Vehicle appears to make one vehicle do the best at completely different driving requirements. That one vehicle can do it better all around, an unnecessary restriction, compared to the current choices perfected over 100 years, makes it clear what a no-brainer it is to start manufacturing electric vehicles in general. Why, even Silicon Valley start-ups are doing it.

As an economist and consumer, what I like best is more choices. Electric based motion and energy carriers provides excellent opportunities to tailor different energy source/carrier blend options for marketing, as folks here have noted.

Who would have thought that the fundamentals of motive power choices would become marketing cream? People are excited about gearboxes now, for goodness sakes, which can only improve quality.
Yes, a strange but very wonderful world.