Bob Lutz gave a rather extensive Chevy Volt interview to the Australian publication Go Auto, and let out remarkable details we didn’t get to hear at Volt Nation.
For one thing he told them the Volt will be sold in Australia in 2011 or 2012.
In terms of production volumes, he said:
“Initially the production is going to be pretty low as we ramp up and make sure the battery suppliers can follow us with the volume etc, but at a very early stage we want to get to 60,000 a year, and then it’s ‘you name it’.”
The article claims Lutz said the Volt will be introduced first in California, next in Washington, and third in Florida. No mention of NY, guess I won’t be one of the first owners 
He describes in detail the difficulties in making the battery packs fit in the space they are supposed to, but confirms there are no cell problems.
For the design, he confirms the freeze has occurred. He states:
“The back-end looks a lot like the concept car, but the front-end and cabin look quite a lot different unfortunately,”
and
“The show car, while it was very interesting design and very interesting looking, from an aerodynamic standpoint it was a complete train wreck. We had to fundamentally start over and we reshaped the vehicle for aerodynamic efficiency and make sure the Volt graphics, the grille and headlights are still there and the dropped belt-line on the side is still there. I think it is still going to be a very attractive car – it is just going to be a slight shock for people who expect it to look exactly look like the show car.”
How’s that for detail?
Source (GoAuto)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, March 26th, 2008 at 7:58 pm and is filed under Design, Engineering, Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Mar 26th, 2008 (8:21 pm)I can’t wait to see what the new look actually looks like. I think the old look was too much muscle car look for a lot of people, like a car for a single high roller, maybe that is just me. Not that that is bad but I think the target market for a hybrid should include more of a middle class look. All the new goofy car looks are starting to grow on me a little. Guess I am getting old.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (8:29 pm)Looks like I might not get a Volt at first either, Lyle. GM, if you’re listening, maybe you could let me drive one of those mules up here for some cold weather testing! Lots of lake effect snow near Syracuse, and I also make trips to NH often (approx 375 mile drive one way)… Perfect to test the generator!
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Mar 26th, 2008 (8:29 pm)I live in California! Send me my Volt! I want an electric blue one; maybe with lightning "flames." I’ll name her Electra.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (8:30 pm)I actually hope that, while they may choose to roll out the vehicles to specific cities at first, that they still make an initial volt available to everyone on the sign-up list who still wants one, regardless of their geographic location.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (8:40 pm)The good news is I live in California, the bad news is I am not in the income class to afford a $40,000 plus vehicle.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (8:47 pm)I think the Volt is going to be pretty darn ugly. Of course no one is going to buy it for its looks. It’s a shame you might not get one right away, maybe they’ll make an exception?
The three markets seem smart, all large with moderate climates. I wonder if Australia is going to see the Volt before Canada does?
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Mar 26th, 2008 (8:57 pm)Read between the lines: $58,000 Cobalt
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Mar 26th, 2008 (9:03 pm)The GoAuto article ends on a Flex Fuel note, including;
"[Bob Lutz ] argues that GM’s push to replace fossil fuels with ethanol made from waste is a far better solution than simply reducing engine sizes and taking similar measures to reduce fuel consumption."
I think the Volt will show that other options; besides reducing engine and car sizes; are available. He should give the competition more credit.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (9:04 pm)Living in Maryland, I guess I will have an opportunity to get an early model. I am commited to that, but my out of pocket has to come in around 30-35K. Any more than that and I really am going to have a hard time convincing my better half that this is a good idea. After all, I’m the one driving it down to DC for work! (maybe if I promise to swap with her a few times a month?? hmmm…)
We have talked this car to death at this point. What I want now is some discussion from GM about how they expect the car to behave in the dirt, heat, snow, ice, traffic, parking lots, etc. The car will be an attention-getter, no doubt. What are they planning for keeping it secure? Will it be "tamper-proof"? Are they planning on some sort of central hub service dept to handle any issues that may render the car immobile? Will the cars be accessible to their engineers via ONSTAR for 24/7 diagnostics and for how long? I have no problem with that mind you.
I am going under the assumption the car will be available and I will purchase one early. Are they planning on a point in time (or mileage) following purchase where the car is essentially "cut loose" and will be required to sink or swim on its own?
I know these questions are a little goofy, but for a car requiring this level of paradigm shift, I think some of these uninteresting questions need addressed as well. Maybe its just too early.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (9:06 pm)Front end above looks more traditional, but still very good. Larger head lights are a plus. In many ways the Volt will still be very unique.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (9:31 pm)oh man I can’t wait to see the final design.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (9:45 pm)Why is it that California always gets the new cars first! What about GM’s home state first….Michigan?
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Mar 26th, 2008 (9:57 pm)There is a God! Can’t wait till it comes down under, I was expecting to have to wait years.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (10:32 pm)Hmm, a 640 mile range, probably not too bad to Texas, though a long drive. I wonder if the dealers in other States will service the Volts? Does this mean I have to find a California Chevy sales manager to wine and dine? That’s gonna be expensive with the airline tickets included.
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Mar 26th, 2008 (10:48 pm)Dan, exactly what it looks like to me too…. they don’t want to introduce it to colder climates initially. I may have to move to Florida… which I’m thinking about anyway after this last New England Winter! Also it sounds like electricity is cheaper in Florida than New Hamsphire, so an EV would be cheaper to recharge down there as well….
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Mar 26th, 2008 (11:20 pm)Just got back from Volt Nation trip. What a great thing to be able to listen to, and give feedback to, senior members of the Volt’s design team! Where else could this ever happen?
Thanks so much, Lyle, for putting this whole event together! I don’t know how you find the time.
Jeff, I’m betting you don’t have to live in those places. I’m counting on driving from Chicago to Washington to buy mine.
Here’s a link to the full article:
http://leaseplan.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6AFD352FFED04EAACA2574170017524F
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Mar 26th, 2008 (11:39 pm)One interesting comment Lutz makes in this article explains why the battery picture he revealed at VoltNation shows the battery in TWO halves. He said, "….the big T-shaped battery pack has to (be) interrupted in the middle because of the cross car beam that is necessary for the dynamic side impact." To see the split battery photo he showed us in NYC, go to…..
http://www.gm-volt.com/2008/03/21/gm-has-ten-prototype-battery-packs-picture-of-a123cpi-pack/
==========================================================
PLEASE REMEMBER: A new forum thread is now available for everyone to RANK the top 10, 15, 20 or so questions not yet answered (or not fully answered) by GM at VoltNation or elsewhere.
Go to….. http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175
There you can rank these questions I’m calling the "Lutz List" from most important to least important. The deadline is Wed, April 2. (If the above link doesn’t work, copy/paste it into your browser’s URL address window instead.)
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:15 am)Glad to hear that the cabin doesn’t look like the concept. I hope that means the gaudy white interior, the awful dash, and last but not least the paddle shifters are all gone.
IIRC they did mention that trunk space was increased and the car would sit a little higher than the concept.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:18 am)The body design freeze is a good sign, I’ve been waiting for that. I’m kind of surprised they took the "old" concept car to the Voltnation given the known body changes for quite some time. I certainly hope it doesn’t end up looking like a Malibu clone, but even if it were, what counts is under the hood.
I’m excited that CA gets 1st dibs, I feel assured living in LA I’ll get a crack at one in 2010 now, question remains, what will it cost?
Come on Lyle, they gotta hook you up with one the first year.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:35 am)As goes California, so goes the WORLD. Woohoo!!!!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (1:11 am)I want pics of the final body design!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (1:48 am)Wow, Fantastic – it’s going to be sold in Australia.
But I am deeply concerned at what price ?
US companies have a shocking habit of slapping up prices here.
It would have to be in the base Commodore range price to work. After all I’ll be down grading in size from a large Australian RWD car to medium Opel Astra sized car.
Thumbs up,
Let hope it’s not some over priced signature status symbol, but rather a car built for the masses aka the Chevrolet bracket.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (2:13 am)They should put a turbine in the front of the car that would charge the battery from the power of the wind as the car is moving. They should use lithium batteries from the company called altair nano technologies. They could keep up with production, it works great in hot or cold temperatures, charges in as fast as 10 minutes with special power and can go over 100 miles on a single charge. As far as design goes, the doors should open up, not out. More people, more cars, less room.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (6:44 am)I won’t get a first one either, Lyle.
But we live close to each other. We could car pool to Washington and buy one (or two?) each.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (6:56 am)What? No cars for Idaho? Go figure! NZDavid will probably get one before some of us. Nasaman you lucky dog! Just don’t be driving around with that left turn signal blinking.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:15 am)I live in Florida! Can’t wait to get my Volt! Any color will do but cashmere or red would be perfect!
A brand new Chevrolet dealer opened earlier this year just a couple miles away. Guess I’m gonna have to give them a visit and get acquainted.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:16 am)>> first in California, next in Washington, and third in Florida
Cold climate testing took place before Prius rollout in the United States. That obviously can only be conducted during the winter. How will GM be addressing this?
Reports from owners in the north was proof that the technology was robust. It really isn’t a good idea delaying that, especially if it is an entire year.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:35 am)Three rollout spots and one of them is not populous NY or Chicago. No Seattle, Detroit, and DC is as far North as it gets…hmm. So we know that even with two suppliers the battery packs are going to be an issue. Cold weather also appears to be an issue. No NY means either a) Scale up problems, or b) an intentionally restricted market. NY is THE ideal user market for this range EV. Supply & demand…, well 50k is looking a lot more real right now. I am amazed that this new interview also did not include a newly revised price. Maybe Think/VLNC know something GM/A123 doesn’t?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:39 am)John1701a, # 26 "Cold climate testing took place before Prius rollout in the United States. That obviously can only be conducted during the winter. How will GM be addressing this?"
My suggestion is for GM to visit Barrow, Alaska next winter to do their testing. The avg. high in February is -9.9 °F(-23°C) with the avg low being -22.1°F (-30°C). This could be a nice cold climate to test in winter.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:40 am)California!!! Thats the deployment state for the EV1…Why not Deploy in Georgia, or Tennessee?…Hopefully Alabama will not be last on the list (conus only)…
…of course, since rent in California can go for $2800 a month for a cave dwelling, maybe GM can fetch $100 grand per Volt sold in that state.
Either way, Green & Gold Metalic paint (like the 73 Camaro) and I’ll purchase one in Alabama when available.
Johnnie
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:48 am)I have a feeling that this will end up looking like the new malibu, to include the interior, hopefully with some of the style that have in the show car.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:49 am)So the design is finalized, GM has ten packs, what else do they need to complete a mule? I’d be willing to bet by the end of April it’s complete.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:52 am)Well, It looks like my uncle and aunt in Florida will be buying me a VOLT. Next question is what do we do for service if the car is taken out of those states ?
Great job again Lyle.
God Bless America, Go VOLT
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:03 am)Is it Washington state or Washington, DC that will be one of the first to get one? Other states are mention in the list, like California, so I think it is Washington state. I sure wished it were Washington DC, instead!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:26 am)if you think about it, who cares what it looks like if it is above $40K. it will be a niche market. the used ones wont come down that much in price for many many years as the moving parts are limited and supply and demand wont allow it.
i guess it falls on me, why am i on this site.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:27 am)I think it would be awesome if GM made the Volt look like this car …. the 2008 Holden Coupe 60 Concept:http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z15074/Holden_Coupe_60_Concept.aspx
http://concept.holdencampaign.com.au/
I think this Holden Coupe car design will be a smash hit! No doubt about it. I like the front grill, side and the rear end design … everything. Whoever designed this car should be promoted. This is one of the coolest car designs I’ve seen in a long time.
Holden is a GM subsidiary from Australia you know, so maybe they can use the basic Holden Coupe 60 design and somehow still make it look cool with 4 doors on it for the Volt.
Maybe in 2012 or something, GM could just add the E-flex propulsion system to this exact Holden Coupe 60 design and sell it as a high-tech luxury hybrid sports coupe with 250+ horsepower or something. Maybe when I get a few promotions and save up some moulah I can actually get me one.
Do this car design GM! Build this car! It’s a winner!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:37 am)#32 Joe
Since Bob states in the article "for political reasons", I believe he means Washington, DC.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:40 am)I am assuming Washington DC. There are lots of reasons, political and otherwise, why having these cars around there would be a good thing.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:42 am)#28 – GM has a Cold Weather testing facility in Kapuskasing, Ontario. They test all sorts of vehicles there so I’m sure the Volt will be heading there this fall. From October to April temperatures range from 0 °C to –40 °C. Refer to http://gm.ca/inm/gmcanada/english/about/FeaturedStories/Story037.html
There will be a lot of training required for service people to work with the new technology in this car. So staging the rollout is the smart choice – it will be much easier for GM engineers to be dispatched to a relatively few locations at the launch of the vehicle. That way any startup glitches are easier to contain and correct. Tesla has done the same thing.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:53 am)#32, Joe. "Is it Washington state or Washington, DC that will be one of the first to get one?"
I was wondering the same thing until I read the whole article.
It says, " Mr Lutz said GM would then introduce the Volt in Washington “for political reasons”"
So I assume Washington, DC because it states "Political reasons".
*note: This is the 4th time I am trying to get my comment to post. Lyle, there is something wrong with this site. Did you ever find someone to rewrite it for you? There are plenty of IT people here who should be able to help.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:58 am)Have you noticed that the supposed price of the Volt goes up every time the price of gasoline goes up? I wonder what the price of gasoline is in Australia? I know it’s 4 bucks a gallon in Cali, and close to that in DC. Don’t know about Florida. Texas is a warm climate state, why don’t they test it there?
Oh I remember. Texas has the least expensive gasoline in the US.
it’s all about the lifetime cost of owning and operating a vehicle for me. If the Volt is no better than a smaller traditional car, I’m not taking the bait.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (9:19 am)Obviously I am not thrilled, since I live in Ohio……
So movie stars, politicians, and old geezers in FL will be the beta testers……….
That would have been my choice too!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:00 am)I have another question for ya’ll??
Being that the test mules are Malibu’s, am I to assume that this will be the approximate size of the VOLT ?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:03 am)Jim @ 42,
I live in Ohio to and am not thrilled with GM’s selective release approach. Why they don’t reignite the rust belt (which frankly needs the help from big auto which has shipped all its work overseas) and give first dibs to the average Joe is sad.
On another note, why doesn’t GM follow Tesla one more time and offer the Volt in two versions. One with an E-Rev and another as a full-blown EV. It may cost $100K, but how difficult can it be? Why not look to the OTHER PACK SUPPLIER?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:33 am)#41 Eco
The price of regular gas (87 octane) in SW Florida is $3.29 to $3.43 in the Ft. Myers/Naples. The price is somewhat higher along the east coast around Hollywood; $3.43+.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:40 am)#40 Rashiid Amul said "This is the 4th time I am trying to get my comment to post. Lyle, there is something wrong with this site. Did you ever find someone to rewrite it for you? There are plenty of IT people here who should be able to help."
I can’t say for sure, but the response times suggest a possible server problem rather than a software problem. If so, Lyle should be able to work this out fairly quickly with the company providing the "host" service.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (11:04 am)Dave B #44:
Most everyone here is screaming at a price of anything over $25K, so for GM to introduce a $100K EV does not make much sense, except to the movie stars, and politicians….
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Mar 27th, 2008 (11:13 am)Rashiid and others.
We are using an automated anti-spam feature that sometimes pulls comments into moderation. It’s often weird what winds up in there.
Intermittently I check it and release the normal comments..there are 1000s of spam per day so the feature is an absolute necessity.
I have also found the server I am using limits RAM, and that’s why the 500+ comment post got hung. I now have to pony-up for a dedicated server..and pay for a migration..the price of success I guess.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (11:18 am)Florida is a natural, with everyone already used to recharging their golf carts, the Volt will appear to be a relatively quick recharge using a 220 feed. Retirees are almost tailor made for the Volt : few long trips, every trip a short one to the doctor, grocer, restaurant, pharmacy and back home for a recharge. At our age, we’ll probably have forgotten where the gas stations are by the time we ever need to use one.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (11:19 am)It better not look like a Prius!!!
Next up… Volt SUV. Can you say E-Jeep?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (11:36 am)This must be good karma for me (if I believed in such things)! I live in Alabama (I understand your concerns, Johnnie Ray-#30) but in about 6 months, I’ll be moving to Florida (be seeing you, Estero-#26). I already told my wife I planned to travel to wherever it will be sold, purchase it and drive or flatbed it back. This kinda works out well as my parents live in Baltimore, I’m moving to Florida and my sister + her husband live in Cali. I guess when deposit time comes up, I’ll be sending it somewhere. As far as cold weather testing goes, you have to work around mother nature or test in Canada. But as happy as I am about it, I do not think it is fair for others. In order to acquire fully viable data on operating conditions, I would’ve done a 7-city rollout: (Los Angeles, New York, Detroit, Cincinnati, Orlando, Dallas and Seattle)…but that’s just me…
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:03 pm)They may be targeting markets where there is strong solar energy potential. All the other electric battery powered car makers use the prospect charging their cars with solar power as a selling point.
If that is their intention, GM should also consider testing/early sales in Colorado. Here we have the option of purchasing 100% of our residential electricity from Wind Power. That would be a very strong Green statement from GM. Showing how the Volt could be powered entirely by green energy sources without having to modify your home at all.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:06 pm)I completely agree with you Pablo….it should be rolled out across the country in seven to ten metro areas at once. That would allow people who really want one to be able to get to a major metro area with relative ease. I’d have to go to Detroit but that is a small price to pay to be able to buy one and in GM’s home state too boot.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:22 pm)Sorry folks, they could have rolled out wherever they wanted, it should be very apparent that they did not want to roll out to cold, or the heavily populated Northeast areas. No Michigan rollout shows how loyal these guys are to their fan base!! The JJC might have been stormed if NYers knew this – a first in LA but not NY – a regular riot!!
Maybe they took Ebay’s lead and will smack CA folks with a huge destination charge too (profit on the sale and shipping too. Makes sense since they will NOT be for sale in the state they are manufactured in for the first year (or even nearby)!
Not treehuggers, just plain old profitmongers.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:28 pm)I live in California, so I guess I should be happy. The truth is though, that I am rapidly losing interest in a car which is 3 years + out with an ever escalating price.
I really have to wonder what GM is playing at here.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:40 pm)I was riding in a new Chevy rental on travel a couple weeks ago. As the inside looked cosmetically pretty OK, I asked my co-workers if they thought Chevy’s reliability had improved to the level of the Toyotas, etc. One responded, No, that he had a Camaro a few years old, and things like electric window motors keep failing, etc. He said Chevy goes out and buys the lowest cost parts, and they fail…..and you have to constantly be replacing them.
Well, I like the volt concept, but I dont appreciate the price concept changes, and the reliability reputation.
Chevy will need to win my business. I will be watching what happens with interest.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (12:53 pm)I live in Fort Lauderdale, so maybe there’s a chance to get an early version afterall. And no, I’m not an "old geezer", as someone put so eloquently. But I do have a 2 car garage with both 110/220. Woo-Hoo!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (1:49 pm)#17 Nasaman
I checked out your questions but could not remember what password if any I used when I signed up months ago so I will respond here:
19, 2 , 1, 7, 18, 9, 14, 11, 10, 20, 13, 12
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Mar 27th, 2008 (1:56 pm)I already posted this but I gotta say after coming across this car today, I think GM ought to highly consider bringing this car to America …. the 2008 Holden 60 Coupe. All I could say is …. wow, this is like the perfect exterior design for the Volt. I’d buy one in a heartbeat if I could.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/269977,15074,0,0/2008_Holden_Coupe_60_Concept_Photo.aspx
http://www.holden.com.au
Holden is a GM subsidiary from Australia. Put the E-Flex powertrain in it. Somehow price it around $35,000 (after good government incentives) and I guarantee you that GM would have a hard time keeping up with demand for it.
Put series hybrid (Volt) technology under the skin of a nice looking car like this and it could be a phenomenon …. the biggest car in GM history maybe. It would be like the Tesla Roadster and get a lot of good publicity and reviews. A real attention getter. It would probably help make all the new hybrid electric cars be in high demand and really get the electrification of the automobile going. If GM wants to have a really good "halo car" to be the flagship for GM technological leadership this would be it.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (3:33 pm)So I guess we’ve determined that Washington is DC and not state, right? As opposed to Texas, Ca and FL I’d have to say that DC isn’t exactly warm in the winter. For years I lived in the beltway area and temps could regularly get to 20F in Dec and Jan. May not be Barrow or Green Bay but DC isn’t warm in the winter.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (3:41 pm)Al #54
No profits to be made in the first year. In fact it’ll probably be years before they’ll see any. All companies must make a profit to stay in business, this is something that unfortunately most "tree huggers" fail to grasp . If they were "profit mongers" as you call them, they wouldn’t have even attempted the Volt.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (4:17 pm)I repeat, I am confused by the limited roll-out. Even with cars that are not produced in huge numbers, like the Corvette, they are still widely distributed.
The Volt should only be marginally more difficult to support and service than a car like the Malibu. The only difference is that it has a battery, a motor, and some extra power electronics. Really we’re only talking about 3 "new" parts, all of which should theoretically be very reliable and relatively easy to service.
So why is the Volt’s rollout any different from any other "all-new" GM model? The only theory I have is that GM wants the option of being able to pull the plug on the program like they did with the EV-1.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (4:43 pm)The Volt is a whole lot more that just "3 new parts". It is a new car from the ground up with components that interact in a totally new way.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (4:47 pm)Glenn G #23 You have been pushing that wind turbine idea for months now, give it up pleeeease! Think about it they reworked the aerodynamics to reduce drag, you add a windmill to the front & you have an exponential increase in drag, any energy gained would not = the extra energy expended to move the car forward against the increased drag. There is no 150% efficient generator or electric motor that I know of, heck not even 100% so your not going to break even anything you do that takes wind is going to cost you much and gain you nothing end of story.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (4:47 pm)We are never going to get off of foreign oil if GM and the rest of the auto manufacturers keep beating around the bush..
Somebody needs to use the whip on Lutz so we can get the Volt going and I mean alot sooner than three more years…
WE need the Volt NOW !!!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (5:01 pm)#63, Estero:
Really? Does the Volt have an entirely new suspension that interacts with the rest of the car in a "totally new way"? No, it doesn’t. (It has a Cobalt suspension.) Same with a million other parts.
Can you think of a single reason why a Volt would be harder to service than an "all new" whiz-bang Mercedes or BMW, with rotating headlights and laser rangefinders and adaptive suspensions? Give me a simple motor and battery any day.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (5:03 pm)As far as California, they have the most liberal green wantabe Legislature in the world, who are always trying to one up each other to claim they are greener than the next guy! Even the Gumbynator has professed a new leaf, not sure he gave up his Hummer yet though. Heck California sets the emmission standards for half the nation it truly will be the most politically receptive State bar none. PS the California cave prices have fallen a lot lately due to repos, but sounds like if you buy a Volt you will have to live in it to make the payments as the days go on!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (5:08 pm)I figured out what Chevrolet stands for:
Chevrolet
High cost
Electric
Vehicle
Relegated
Only to
Luxury
End
Transportation
Lutz was right when he said it was priced for a Chevy!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (5:17 pm)For you guys thinking about driving to another state, I am sure they have that covered in the sales/lease contract along with a stipulation it can only be sold back to GM or a GM approved buyer to insure limited location distribution, but if you rent a uhaul you can drive it back to the state you bought it in ( have a PO box in) for service if you want one bad enough. Don’t worry if price keeps climbing there will be plenty available for 40K & North OTD. Even I won’t pay more than the car is worth, it is all about TCO.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (6:06 pm)Grizzly 51 & all other wishful thinkers,
No profit in year 1, hahahahaha
I guess Lutz told you that! At over 50K there will be plenty of profit, which is why I believe GM is making this car. The California rollout is very specifically targeting the real buyer as well as DC. High-end, EnviroConscious, lower carbon footprint, well-heeled, buy America, technocar buyer. What is with Florida??? A safe, warm , 3rd outlet for retired, wealthy, high-end Environmentally conscious ….
The idea, no profit. Do you really believe that? How about some oceanfront Arizona property. Let me guess, they will make it up with volume hahahahaha. Why didn’t GM loose a few Billion on EV1 sales? Wonder why Toyota doesn’t try that trick? hahahaha PT Barnum had someone pegged.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (6:11 pm)California, Washington, Florida and … Australia? So why did they bother having Volt Nation in New York? I feel like I’ve been had. It will be really disappointing if Australia gets the Volt before New York. I thought the idea was about getting America off imported oil!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (6:15 pm)Now that the new "aero design" is fixed. What is the CD number?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (6:20 pm)AL #70
How about some figures to back up what you’ve posted? First, where do you come up with $50G? The rest of it is basically incoherent.
Sounds like you watched one too many EV documentaries on the web and bought it.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:02 pm)Dear Grizzly,
Be sure to NEVER play poker, and please stay away from car dealers!
Here it is nice and slow:
1) Price when the Volt was announced – under $30,000.
2) Price when battery manufacturers were announced – around 40K(that is 40 Kilo bucks or $40,000 for the non-engineers)
3) Last Lutz bombshell set the 1st year Volt price around $48,000.
(48 Grand for folks even older than me, phew)
Elapsed time, under 1 year I believe.
Now we have 31 months left, thousands of complaints about the cost, and the price just keeps climbing. I predict we get over 50K prior to years end, but you have to admit we are nearly there now.
You, of all people may be the one to say “I told you so” if the Volt price is still LE (ops there I go again – Less than or equal to) $48K by year end. If I am wrong – which I seriously doubt based on the REAL numbers above – I will so publicly state.
The EV1 should remind us all of the sage advice: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME.”
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:14 pm)Al #74
The Ev-1 is dead and buried along with all it’s competitors like the Honda EVplus, and the Rav-4ev. Excepting the 300 or so Rav4evs that were reluctantly sold for about $45K, they all met the same fate. The Ev-1 was the Ev-1, the Volt is the Volt, not the same car, not the same time, and not the same circumstances. Time to move on.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:20 pm)Interstate I-90 from Detroit to California runs right through the wilderness mountains of Montana. I got me a spot where I can sit with my buddies and our rifles an we’ll see a truck comin with a Volt on it fer a good 2-3 miles.
Looks like its time fer a good ole fashion stagecoach type robbery.
I’ll get my Volt in 2010 come hell or high water!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:27 pm)Like David #12 I live in NZ. I have been fascinated by the Volt all along, and have been following the debate with great interest, but also rather like a small boy with his nose against the toy shop window. Forever yearning, but with the Volt forever out of reach. I want a Volt, but thought that I would have to wait for many years… O joy! There is a god indeed!
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:38 pm)Ross #77
I must admit I was surprised to read about Australia getting them that early. The question I had was do they actually sell Chevy in AT/NZ or would you be getting a Holden branded Volt equivalent?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:45 pm)Grizzly #78
That, is an excellent question.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (7:48 pm)75 Grizzly
George Santayana
“Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
Ever hear that down on the old GM unionized assembly line?
I would love to tell you my story about a nice Camaro with just a bit over the 36,000 mile mark when the transmission failed (clutches.) You guessed it, GM would not fix it.
I subscribe to Consumers Report and they don’t like the build quality of any GM car. Do you really wonder why I am skeptical?
You also don’t want to know about my Corvette engine that failed way before my cheap Toyota either…
By the way, there was a nice movie out in most theaters about the EV1, see it by any chance? A lot of folks have….
Did you know that your discussions are highly repetitive?
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:30 pm)#59 GM VOLT FAN
That is a nice looking car. Maybe we should all move to AU or NZ.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:30 pm)GM quality poor? Pleeeeeese!
I own a loaded 2001 Suburban with 146,000 miles on it. Every single knob, and accessory works. Basic maintenance is all that has ever been done…not a single repair!
I tow my 2800 pound boat, my 5400 pound travel trailer, and load it with my wife and four kids.
I would have traded it in by now except that I love it more than any other car I’ve had…and it just runs great. Since buying it, I’ve upgraded all my business vehicles to GM (mostly Chevy AWD Express vans) and I couldn’t be happier.
By contrast, my wife has a 2004 Dodge Grand Caravan with 67,000 miles on it and its…well frankly…a POS. The fuel gauge doesn’t work, two speakers have failed, the front end is shot…today. So we’ll fix it…AGAIN, and finally trade it for a Chevy Uplander.
My moms Olds Cutlass Supreme has 240,000 miles on it and she won’t give it up.
I cannot identify with those who say that GMs quality is poor…when I need a new car, I simply go straight to the nearest Chevy dealer.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:34 pm)Hey…Bob Lutz…make that check out to Eric E, PO Box…….;)
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Mar 27th, 2008 (8:44 pm)Oh Yeah… There was a recall on the dash light dimmer. Took my dealer about an hour to change out while ate lunch and didn’t cost me a dime.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:04 pm)Grizzly,
The only Chevs we have seen in Australasia in the last sixty years are those we import privately.
Our local GM dealer sells Holden,Opel and…wait for it…Toyota.However I get the impression GM may want to market the Volt internationally under the Chev brand, left and right hand variants.
If Chev gets the Volt into production they deserve the credit.
(With all due respect to our Aussie cousins across the Tasman)
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:38 pm)bruce g,
I’d heard Lutz say that he wanted Chevy to be the world brand, but in Europe the Flexstream will be their Volt. With the time line given, I didn’t think that an Aussie plant would be building the car, but that possibly the Volt might be "Holden" branded right out of Hamtramck.
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:52 pm)The problem with things mass-produced is, your bound to come accross some "bad apples." When was the last time you seen some mass produced that didn’t have problems?
Things will go sour, some people have better luck with foreign cars, and some believe in American built cars. I’ve seen good Chevys, and good Toyotas. Guess what, I’ve also seen bad Chevys, and bad Toyotas, does this make both companies bad? No, just can’t be perfect 100% of the time. There is just a certain tolerance things can be built to….
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Mar 27th, 2008 (10:58 pm)Grizzly,
On reflection the Holden brand has been renowned for its big engined big cars, which is why the Holden dealer sells Toyota.
Toyota filled the niche for small cars, lots of them.
Overall I think Bob Lutz is making a good call, though his reasoning will be entirely different to mine.
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Mar 28th, 2008 (6:48 am)I live in a hilly area. Electric motors are notoriously bad on hills. I wonder what the range and performance will be like if you don’t live in a flat terrain part of the country?
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Mar 28th, 2008 (9:02 am)Mark, Estero, Nasaman Call me when you hear what city in Forida will have Volts. I live in Fort Myers Shores. I doubt it will be the first Florida city to have em. Estero we can ride together in my 2006 Honda Insite to get our first Volts. 410-8826 call me. TED
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Mar 28th, 2008 (9:03 am)Mark, Estero, Nasaman Call me when you hear what city in Florida will have Volts. I live in Fort Myers Shores. I doubt it will be the first Florida city to have em. Estero we can ride together in my 2006 Honda Insite to get our first Volts. 410-8826 call me. TED
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Mar 28th, 2008 (9:46 am)I just googled up what I was hoping to read this morning. GM is going to share their E-Flex (Volt) technology with other GM divisions as soon as possible. This will very likely include the Holden subsidiary of GM in Australia. Yeaa.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story/D97B5CB29FE19FB9CA2573F0001E668E?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,volt
I love the exterior design of the 2008 Holden Coupe 60:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/269977,15074,0,0/2008_Holden_Coupe_60_Concept_Photo.aspx
It would probably end up being a $40,000+ car, but Holden and GM should definitely consider putting series hybrid (Volt) technology into this new Coupe 60. High tech 21st century electric drive, fuel sipping, ultra low CO2 series hybrid (Volt) technology along with an exterior like the Coupe 60 would make for a very nice car that GM would have a hard time keeping up with demand for. That’s a problem GM would like to have I’m sure.
If a series hybrid Holden Coupe 60 is built they should definitely sell it in America …. make it into a Cadillac if they think it is necessary. All I know is I like the Coupe 60 design, I like E-Flex series hybrid technology and I want to get me one. I don’t care what they call it.
I hope the Volt’s exterior design ends up looking as cool as the Coupe 60. Maybe the designers of the Coupe 60 are working with the Volt exterior designers. I usually don’t get so worked up about how a car looks on the outside, but I definitely think this Coupe 60 looks like a home run for GM and Holden. Hopefully, the marketing and engineering people at GM really do come to this blog website and read what us customers are saying.
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Mar 28th, 2008 (11:44 am)Well, California just dropped a bomb. They reduced the requirement of having 25,000 zero-emission vehicles on the road by 2014. They reduced it to 7500. Hummmm, now I think GM should introduce the Volt in Michigan where the economy is the worst…we could certainly use the gas savings.
Here’s the link
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/03/28/zero.emission.ap/index.html
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Mar 28th, 2008 (2:02 pm)Quotes from Bob Lutz
-"The back-end looks a lot like the concept car, but the front-end and cabin look quite different unfortunately,"
-“The show car, while it was very interesting design and very interesting looking, from an aerodynamic standpoint it was a complete train wreck. We had to fundamentally start over and we reshaped the vehicle for aerodynamic efficiency and make sure the Volt graphics, the grille and headlights are still there and the dropped belt-line on the side is still there. I think it is still going to be a very attractive car – it is just going to be a slight shock for people who expect it to look exactly look like the show car.”
I’m a die hard fan of the ‘form follows function’ design school, and I could tell just by looking at the show car that it needed real aerodynamic reworking. Streamlining will make the final body style look futuristic, perfect for the Volt.
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Mar 28th, 2008 (2:47 pm)My guess is that they don’t want introduce it to the colder climates because;
1. Lithium ions aren’t quite as good – even though they are improved.
2. Running the cabin heater, window defoger and radio empties the batteries in 5 minutes….
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Mar 28th, 2008 (3:17 pm)#93 Kevin R:
Yeah, but if you read on you will see that they required that the electric cars be replaced with 60,000 plug-in hybrids. I heard the Chairwoman of the Air Resources Board interviewed on the radio about 2 hours ago, and she said that specifically. So it’s actually very good news for the Volt, IMHO.
#94 Guy Incognito:
OMG, here I go agreeing with you again. What’s this world coming to?
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Mar 28th, 2008 (6:59 pm)Guy 94, Noel 96
One thing that I’ve been wondering is if the final deign will have a grill. The picture on this thread with Lutz behind the wheel seems to suggest this, but that picture also looks fishbowl distorted and may not be accurate. The video posted below where Bob Boniface reveals part of the "new Volt" suggests it doesn’t. It’s possible that those slats are temporary and are where the grill would go. Personally I prefer the smooth front on the one that doesn’t, and I think it really complements the vehicle. I’d also have to believe that aerodynamically, the smooth front would also be slipperier through the air, but I guess it’s anyone’s guess.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x-JVPLZ22Tg
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Mar 28th, 2008 (7:02 pm)Guy 94, Noel 96
One thing that I’ve been wondering is if the final deign will have a grill. The picture on this thread with Lutz behind the wheel seems to suggest this, but that picture also looks fishbowl distorted and may not be accurate. The video posted below where Bob Boniface reveals part of the "new Volt" suggests it doesn’t. It’s possible that those slats are temporary and are where the grill would go. Personally I prefer the smooth front on the one that doesn’t, and I think it really complements the vehicle. I’d also have to believe that aerodynamically, the smooth front would also be slipperier through the air, but I guess it’s anyone’s guess.
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Mar 28th, 2008 (7:13 pm)Sure looks like when you include a link, that post gets an "administrative hold". The other day one was held for quite some time, and I believe another never actually posted. Sorry for the double post again!
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Mar 28th, 2008 (10:19 pm)Ask yourself why GM would bring out a concept EV that was never aero designed from the begining? It seemed to supprise them that it was better in the wind tunnel backward, than it was forward. The big wide tires on the concept, were the opposite of low rolling resistance tires. The EV1 was aero designed. They seem to have forgotten many of the lessons learned from that car. Also why did it have that big plastic roof, that would never heat or cool well in an EV? Could the answer be, that they never intended to produce this car?
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Mar 28th, 2008 (11:37 pm)Oh CRAP – they’re going to make another dorky, unattractive goofy-electric-box-car. So when you drive it around it screams "I am a complete dork-nerd who hasn’t gotten laid – ever"
My hopes have been dashed…
Will there ever be an electric car that looks cool?
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Mar 29th, 2008 (12:42 am)Ed 100
The answer is because it was a concept car, and concept cars always change as they move toward production. The story Lutz gives is that he asked Boniface to design a cool car that seated 4 or 5 and was unique, and they took it from there. He did not ask him to work out all the aerodynamics of the first ever E-rev car on the planet w/ low rolling resistance tires, and total thermal insulation etc. all in one sitting. Even the original Impact was modified to become the Ev-1.
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Mar 29th, 2008 (1:30 am)cw 101
I must admit that I feel similar. I understand the need to maximize the efficiency of the vehicle. I also understand that there are many people in the world who are content driving a car that looks very similar to many other cars on the road. I don’t normally fall into that category.
I really liked the concept look! However, it’s evident that changes are in the works. I am more than willing to give the car a shot, as the technology is an idea who’s time has come.
My concern is the recent escalation of estimated pricetag in recent months. I am concerned about ROI more than "sexy" looks. I was willing to put my $35K down on the vehicle. I would say that at or above $45K doesn’t offer any noticeable financial return. The average consumer can afford LOTS of $4 a gallon gas in their sub $10K Aveo (on sale as a last year’s model) with that price difference, and still feel that they are making a difference by purchasing a car that is light on fuel useage. Then drive that for 3 or 4 years while automotive companies start competing more in the E-Rev market and prices are driven down to a more reasonable level.
This car was to be my present to myself for completing a 5 year project on time and under budget (keeping fingers crossed), but not at an inflated pricetag! I can take roughly $25 and build a streetable Cro-Moly tube chassis frame and slap a USBody fiberglass ‘68 Camaro body on it, and drop in an LS2 engine/tranny from a late-model GTO. At sub 2300 lbs (with all creature comforts) and that drivetrain, I’d have one SEXY looking 26-27MPG vehicle, and pocket the extra $20K. That price includes the purchase of a junk old ‘68 and transferring the Cowl tag,Vin, and title to the new frame while sending the junker to the crusher. This way I can keep it street legal, and still feel good about a car that gets reasonable fuel economy, offers suprisingly clean emissions, and then wait a couple of years until 4 or 5 major manufacturers have E-Revs on their showroom floors.
I hold out hope that GM will leave enough neat features to make it stand out from every Nissan/Honda/Saturn cookie cutter mid-size car out there, but it could look like the new Corvette and I still wouldn’t pull the trigger if it financially doesn’t make sense.
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Mar 29th, 2008 (1:34 am)Sorry, that was 25K. I do all the work myself…but even I can’t build a car for $25. Don’t I wish….
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Mar 29th, 2008 (2:29 am)Good news for me and the family! I live in California! My wife and I were already arguing over er discussing who was going to drive it on daily basis. My 8-old likes it because he wants a sports car he can drive some day.
But Dear Bob and Company (GM), PUHLEAZE do not tamper too much with the visual styling of the Volt. And do not make it "cater" to the "middle class". Because I fear that what many folks here think of as "middle class" is far off the mark for some like myself who is middle class.
Frankly, I dread getting GM rental cars because they are about as bland and lifeless as a car can be.
The Volt prototype has an edge. It has a soul. It makes a statement. If wanted a hybrid that didn’t make a passionate statement, I’d have bought a Prius or a Honda or an Acura or a Hybrid SUV.
But I’m a guy who lusts after a Tesla and the Fisker Karma. And for that, I’m willing to pay $35K to $40K. But if you try to foist a Chevy Cobalt or Malibu on me and the buying public, well, can kiss this buyer goodbye. I won’t touch that piece of [expletive self-censored].
So you push as hard as you can on the engineers to build me (and the rest of us) something that has exterior looks and interior looks as *CLOSE* to the concept car as possible and still carry a family of four comfortably.
BTW, I’d prefer a biodiesel model. I’m trying to convince the McDonald’s down the road to install a drive-up filling pump so I can "gas" up while buying the happy meals for the kiddies.
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Mar 29th, 2008 (3:36 am)Carb has reduced the requirement to 7500 BEV’s per year, and added in the BEEV (EREV) option. So if GM sells 60,000 Volts a year they will comply. (Explains why they are rolling out in CA first.) A simlified version of the rules is at : http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/03/california-air.html#more
Also see the staff proposal which shows how the credit system works. The Tesla Roadster gets the maximum 5 credits per vehicle. A GM Volt with a 50 mile range would get 2 credits. With a 40 mile range would get a bit less than two. (See page 19) http://www.arb.ca.gov/board/ma/2008/08-3-5pres.pdf
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Mar 29th, 2008 (8:05 am)What a shame. First the cool roof and now the front end. I guess I wont be getting the neat door’s either.
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Mar 29th, 2008 (8:23 am)Looks like when I get my Volt I will have to park the car with the rear bumper towards a building…would not want anyone seeing that ugly posterior anymore than they have to…Please GM…fix that ugly Volt ’gluteous’!! I’m sorry, but this "baby ain’t got back."
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Mar 29th, 2008 (8:59 am)101 cw said "Oh CRAP – they’re going to make another dorky, unattractive goofy-electric-box-car. So when you drive it around it screams "I am a complete dork-nerd …"
When I’ve talked to people about the Volt, I’ve found the above to describe what they are expecting — a slow, boring, ugly car that is sort of a merger of their present feelings about the cars from GM and the performance of golf carts. From the concept car I thought the Volt would prove them wrong, as the concept car looks like it is fast and exciting…even daring.
Unfortunately it’s beginning to look like the actual Volt will prove them right and me wrong. I suppose there are a few people who will buy a slow and unattractive but still expensive car from feelings of guilt about using gas, such as some moonbeams in California (smile), but I don’t think there are very many.
Oh well, maybe Mitsubishi will sell their car in NC, so at least we will have something slightly interesting to look at (smile again).
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Mar 29th, 2008 (1:06 pm)#98 Grizzly:
Didn’t I read here at some point that there were going to be automatic grill slats which stayed closed to clean up the aero until some more air flow was needed for cooling loads? Sounded pretty elegant to me.
I’m really not too worried about what it looks like. Yesterday somebody said "form follows function" Amen. The other day somebody asked "What is the Cd of the revised body?" Good question. I’d be really interested to know too.
Don’t worry for a second about trivia such as double posts. I’m the self-acknowledged king of the typos, but I can live with it. It’s blogging, man, it’s part of the fun. Actually this blog is outstanding as to spelling and typos. Maybe you guys are more "mature" than the general run of bloggers!
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Mar 29th, 2008 (9:36 pm)110 noel park…..
GM has said on various occasions (most recently in describing the Caddy Provoq concept) that they’ve developed actuator-operated louvers (or slats) that can be used to close grill openings at road speeds to improve Cd.
The picture at the top of this thread seems to show closures behind the grill —so I believe there’s a good chance they’ll use this means of improving Cd, which Bob Lutz said, following the Volt’s wind tunnel testing & aero improvements, is "in the mid 2’s" —i.e., ~0.25, which is extremely good.
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Mar 29th, 2008 (10:23 pm)Noel,
IDR anything like that but possibly I overlooked it. I’m not overly concerned about the looks, but if you compare the Lutz picture above with the front that Bob Boniface shows a part of on the link I posted above there is quite a difference in the way the vehicle looks. Recently I’ve kind of developed a taste for the grill-less look.
Nasaman, if what you’re saying is correct (and I believe it is) then GM is seriously putting an effort into this vehicle. Since most of the cooling would be for the ICE those louvres would be shut for most in town commuting, unless the controller is air cooled.
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Mar 30th, 2008 (3:49 pm)I first want to apologize in advance for the negativity, but some of the thinking at GM and with Lutz drives me crazy!!!!!!!!!!
1. Why did Lutz give a more in dept interview to an AUSTRALIAN publication rather than the Volt Nation? That seems pretty sorry to me.
2. If the aerodynamics of the concept were horrible and they knew it, why did they even introduce it? Sounds like you need to hire new designers.
3. I have a feeling it is going to look just like a Dodge Caliber which if I wanted that I’d just go buy one from Dodge. GM could have saved alot of money and just gone to Dodge and used their parts. Which could have lowered the price of the vehicle.
4. I drive a diesel Jetta and get great gas mileage…..pretty much the top in any range plus I use biodiesel. Lutz needs to get off that “I don’t believe there is any future in small diesels” he stated awhile back. Ask Volkswagen if you can buy some of their small diesels and put them in GM vehicles.
5. With the looks sounding more and more like they will take the Volt into the ugly and “God I would never be caught dead in that dorky thing”, say goodbye to alot of buyers.
You have got to appeal to a different crowd to bring in new buyers and convert other traditional gas guzzling purists over to a better option. I love AMERICAN mussel cars just as much as the next true American. I had even converted most of my American muscle car buddies over to thinking about buying a Volt,
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Mar 30th, 2008 (3:53 pm)Somehow it sent in the middle of me typing……
I had even converted most of my American muscle car buddies over to thinking about buying a Volt, because of it’s great looks. Now we’ve lost them……..
“Who killed the electric car…….” sadly enough it was it’s own looks…..
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Mar 31st, 2008 (6:37 pm)#112 Grizzly:
Or we could use duct tape, a la NASCAR. If the temp gage starts to go up, make a pit stop and peel of a piece of tape.
I bet they didn’t need to take much off at Martinsville yesteday, 40 degrees at the start. Of course downforce (lack of lift?) probably isn’t much of an issue at Martinsville.
I have some pictures of a 55 Corvette like ours running on the beach at Daytona in the old days. Zora had the whole grille taped up except for one little opening about 3″x4″ in the middle. Nothing new under the sun.
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Apr 1st, 2008 (11:34 am)I agree there should be the option to purchase if not in the initial release states. I also think 40 k is too much. I understand the costs, and so I’ll still deal at 35K.
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Aug 1st, 2008 (9:45 am)Automakers for the most part follow 4 simple rules:
1 Financial (Cost, profit margins, market size and marketability)
2 Safety (Liability)
3 Customer service (Reputation)
4 Short term and long term reliability (Dependable)
They tend to stay away from the following::
1 If you build it they will come
2 Release now manage risk later
3 High cost with low profit margins
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