In this segment, the GM execs answer questions about performance, saying it will be stable whether the generator is on or off. Also discussed is how fun an experience electric driving can be. Weber says “it’s fun to eco-drive”.
The team was asked about roll-out plans, Volt chief engineer Posawatz says first the integrity of the vehicle will have to be “spot-on”, and that the achievement of that goal will drive the roll-out pace .
Posawatz and Chevrolet president Ed Peper acknowledged interest in the GM-Volt.com community’s feedback to them and advises that we may be first to hear about taking early deposits for early production cars.
[flash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghj8DBLZM-o]
This entry was posted on Monday, March 24th, 2008 at 12:00 am and is filed under GM Q and A, Volt Nation Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Mar 24th, 2008 (12:29 am)Ok I agree. Not sure w/ this type of ground breaking technology how it could be done any other way. If 2010 is the target, it’ll be done with a controllable 10K copies. They’ll be first to market and they’ll have a manageable real world test fleet.
So…for most of us 2011 will be the target. IMHO this is the year they should respect the GM-VOLT sign-up list for future distribution.
Mar 24th, 2008 (5:50 am)As much as I hate the small roll out, it makes logical sense.
Keep it small and keep the problems to a minimum. If it all works fine, then increase production the following year. I suspect some of those first 10K customers are like us, and will post what they think of the car. When it comes time for the rest of us to buy it, there should be enough information on the web to make a good decision. I really want GM to succeed with this car. I hope the news will be good.
Mar 24th, 2008 (7:02 am)Notice that this video has TWO gm-volt.com guys who are both Prius owners. The second guy said, "this is the most exciting car he’s ever seen" (paraphrased). And the first guy’s question (& GM’s answers) brings out a MAJOR difference in the Prius & the Volt…. after the battery in the Prius reaches a minimum SOC, the "fun is over" as the first guy put it. That is, with the electric motor’s power source at a minimum in the Prius (when a turtle icon lights up on the dash) there is a noticeable drop off in acceleration. Both Andrew & Weber assured him that will NOT be the case for the Volt —that there would be NO effect on performance at all at a 30% SOC.
My independent engineering appraisal is that the Volt’s ICE is indeed powerful enough that both the Volt’s acceleration & top speed (as well as high road speeds for long ranges) should not be affected AT ALL by the battery SOC.
I also agreed with Weber that (again paraphrasing) the Volt’s 160HP electric motor will make the car a real BACK-SLAPPER when accelerating from a standing start. Owners may instead start calling the Volt’s accelerator the "exilarator"!!!
Mar 24th, 2008 (7:19 am)I have no real problem with the limited release numbers for the first year.
But they should be sold to people who want to be basically "beta testers" and will work with GM to get it right. If they just sell them to the movie stars in LA, and there are some problems that need to be ironed out, the Volt will not be well reported in the press. And that could be a disaster for the E-REV platform.
This is why GM should give serious consideration to putting the first cars into the hands of people like us on this site, who will be willing to give the necessary feedback to correct those initial problems that are bound to sneak up after the cars hit the real world. If they want to screen people to make sure they would be successful candidates, set up an online application for prospective buyers of the initial vehicles, which could include information such as daily driving habits, occupation, willingness to provide feedback reports, the capability to upload and download information directly from/to the vehicle directly to the engineers at GM, etc., etc, etc.
Having been involved in the beta testing of many different computer systems over the last 28 years, I know first hand that this help the manufacturers get the kinks out before the major release of their systems.
I am willing to do this with GM as well, and I am sure many others on this site would be ready to do the same!
Mar 24th, 2008 (7:31 am)#3 nasaman -
I certainly hope that is correct in regards to the ICE. Some months ago it was reported that the generator would only be rated for the average requirements of the motor which made me wonder where the power for HVAC, etc. would come from in worse case senarios. I say go ahead and size the generator appropriately even if it affects equivalent gas mileage when running on the ICE because 78% of the time the ICE is not used anyway. And the few times I take long trips that require the ICE it won’t concern me much that I’m only getting 45 mpg instead of 50 because I’ve driven the last 3 months without using any gas.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:00 am)One question I wish someone had asked at Volt Nation was what GM was going to do about tires for the Volt. I would love to see GM get some competitive prices from the top tire manufacturers and have the Volt come out in 2010 with tires that have a great combination of low rolling resistance, good ride, low noise, and tread life.
Consumer Reports shows that the Michelin X Radial and the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred get high ratings for these attributes. Let’s hope that the top tire manufacturers are working closely with GM to get the perfect tires for the Volt at a reasonable price.
From the looks of these Michelin websites, it looks like they are serious about making "green tires".
http://www.michelin-green-meter.com/main.php?cLang=en
http://www.michelinman.com/forward/
I’ve been happy with Goodyear tires in the past too. I’m sure they’ll have excellent "green tires" as well by 2010.
http://www.goodyearassurance.com/
Tires can make a big difference in fuel efficiency you know. People tend to overlook the tires. "Low rolling resistance" is the thing that gets you good mileage out of your car. The Toyota Prius has good low rolling resistance tires. Hopefully, by 2010, the tire manufacturers will have radically improved super low rolling resistance, super quiet, no compromise tires on the market … maybe with these new nanotech advancements like "nanoprene" I have been reading about.
http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=4106.php
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:10 am)I agree with #4 Jim I. Having "been there, done that" I can assure you that oftentimes it is the "least expected" that really bites one.
Jim’s point is well taken. Put the early Volts in the "wrong" hands and GM is likely to get negative press with each and every little problem. But, put those early Volts in the "right" hands and they are likely to get help!
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:16 am)>> That is, with the electric motor’s power source at a minimum in the Prius (when a turtle icon lights up on the dash) there is a noticeable drop off in acceleration.
Comparing a 2003 model anything to a 2011 is hardly objective. And selecting such a rare scenario makes it even worse. Over the 59,827 miles I drove that design, the turtle only appeared once!
Let’s please keep to comparing 2011 vehicles to the choices available for new purchase in 2011.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:54 am)#6
Refferance low rolling resistance tires.
I recently got a set of Nokian tires to replace the Michliens on my Golf TDI and not only gained 2 MPG but they are also much quieter, the rib tread design does pick up on grooved pavement though.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:57 am)The Prius turtle icon reference was in terms of discussing design parameters for the Volt, not yet another nose-to-nose comparison between the two vehicles. I personally liked their response to the "depleted" battery scenario.
Mar 24th, 2008 (10:30 am)I also agree with the limited roll out scenario of the Volt to fix any “ghosts in the machine” before mass production.
However, once bitten, twice shy and the painful memories of the limited roll out of the EV-1 will produce Deja Vu which will manifest doubt about GM’s sincerity about the Volt program.
The press and bloggers will have a field day at GM’s expense. The PR of a limited rollout of the Volt MUST be handled very carefully or positive momentum could be lost.
Full disclosure as to the reasons for any limited rollout MUST be made and made often.
Mar 24th, 2008 (10:57 am)#5 mmcc
"Some months ago it was reported that the generator would only be rated for the average requirements of the motor"
Wherever that report came from, they probably got confused between the ICE supplying average power and being rated for average power.
Mar 24th, 2008 (11:22 am)I absolutely agree with JimI in 4.
This is precisely the approach that could and should be taken. The testers need to be carefully screened for effectiveness. Non-disclosures signed. Willingness to be inconvenienced somewhat. This is a serious rollout with serious issues. The testers need to be equally serious. They must put the Volt’s success as job #1. They must be willing to put money up front if necessary for purchase or lease.
GM needs people that want GM to succeed. My family has historical dedication and current vested interests in GM succeeding. I have to admit, if this was Ford doing this, I wouldn’t be so interested in assisting.
Mar 24th, 2008 (11:31 am)This is interesting after listening to what GM is planning for the Volt battery management: (unlike Toyota, GM seems to be on the right track)
Three big problems with the Prius – Tape 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hh8hW6jK_E
Mar 24th, 2008 (11:44 am)I am interested in helping out. My 101 miles a day should really be a good testing environment. Hot humid summers. Cold snowy winters. Highway, back roads, hills, pouring rain, stop-and-go traffic, etc. I want GM to succeed with this. I have AAA so breakdowns will be covered if needed. Our country really needs this. I have a friend serving in Iraq. I don’t want another "war over oil" to ever happen again. Nor do I want what happened on 9/11 to happen again. I will help GM succeed if I can. We really need this Volt and many other GM lines built on the same technology. GM needs to get it right, and I am more than happy to help them do just that.
Mar 24th, 2008 (12:14 pm)Hmm. It seems to me that the success of the Volt will bring about its obsolescence. Say that 25% of new car sales use this technology. This will bring about a SHARP decline in the world oil demand (actually I think it would only take 1-2% of new car sales to cause a total oil price collapse). If oil comes down to a buck again (1999), who will want to pay an extra 10 grand for a car whose electicity cost is the equivalent of 60 cents/gallon?
Does anyone else think like this?
Mar 24th, 2008 (12:16 pm)I’m not in a position to watch the video right now but I’m surprised these performance questions are even coming up. Of course the Volt will not slow down, etc. when the ICE kicks in.
As for the power the ICE can supply, it will be "average" in the sense that a 71 horsepower engine can not supply full power to a 160 horsepower motor. Eventually you will run out of juice if you keep going at 160 HP. But 71 is enough to sustain 100 MPH, and definitely enough to sustain 75 MPH + all accessories at full blast.
Mar 24th, 2008 (12:16 pm)Those execs had to feel the excitement of the crowd, and probably went back to GM totally pumped. These types of efforts can be emotionally draining, but this type of "pep rally" will help them keep their nose to the grindstone.
Mar 24th, 2008 (1:06 pm)#15 Leon
We saw oil prices increase in the 70′s and early 80′s, only to be followed by a price collapse in the mid-80′s. This was primarily due to a shift in the supply/demand curve.
However, times are different now. Countries all over the world, China and India inparticular, are industrializing and increasing their energy usage. A technical magazine I read projected petroleum usage in the US to increase about 2-3% annually over the next 20 years, while China, India, and other developing nations would see 30 to 40% annual increases! Complicate this with the fact that the world may not be able to produce any more oil than it does today. As new fields are discovered and developed, others become depleted. Its not a pretty picture for consumers.
I’m sure a broad adoption of the electric vehicle (and I mean globally, not just in the US), will help to curb the rise of oil prices, however, it could be a decade before enough vehicles are on the road to make a difference.
Mar 24th, 2008 (1:55 pm)#12 Mike756 and #16 Tom Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking that "average" was something like 50 MPH with few accessories running.
Mar 24th, 2008 (2:02 pm)Bill,
Good points. But as jittery as the market is, it’s hard to tell. A month or so ago oil fell 10% on the "possibility" of higher than expected inventories. It can be very volatile, and there are many speculators right now. My guess is that the mere successful roll-out of the Volt (and the publicity that will go with it) will cause a sharp decrease in oil prices.
In fact, if the world knew what we, here on this blog) know, I think many speculators would jump out of oil right now and we’d see substantially lower prices.
You mentioned that though our usage is increasing at 2-3% per year, China and India are growing at 30-40%. But how much smaller are they than us (in terms of oil usage) to start with? 40% growth on 10 barrels per day is nothing compared to 2% growth on 50 million barrels per day (I exaggerate for effect here).
I’m just sayin – if the Volt does what we all want (get us off oil; hurt the oil producing countries, etc), lower oil prices must result. It may take 1 year, 10 years, or 1 month, but it will happen or the Volt won’t have done what we want it to do.
Mar 24th, 2008 (2:13 pm)One thing I think people are overlooking in the "Volt will make oil prices fall" debate is that the Volt will effectively put all the energy companies in direct competition with one another. I.e. the power companies will be competing against the oil companies, the ethanol companies, etc. That will reduce prices on energy PERIOD.
Mar 24th, 2008 (2:26 pm)#20 Leon
Here is a link to projections on the World oil consumption by the Energy Information Administration.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/oil.html
I think before the speculators start to lower their price escalation, the Volt will actually need to be on the market and selling well. The traders have access to oil inventory and consumption data just like us, and if oil usage doesn’t decline, why lower the price?
Mar 24th, 2008 (2:37 pm)MetrologyFirst #13:
I agree with everything you say, except for the non-disclosure agreement. I would agree to that without question, if it is part of a Project Driveway program from GM, as those vehicles are provided to the testers for free, are not for sale, and specifically for testing and reporting. But if I am buying a vehicle, and I agree to be part of a bug reporting program, I should still be able to say that "on Monday I reported a problem with XXX and by Tuesday afternoon, GM had downloaded a fix to correct the problem".
Leon #15:
Once I make the jump to an electric vehicle, I am never going back, because price is not my main motiviation. I am sick of being held hostage by people that would just as soon kill me, for no other reason than I happen to believe in freedom in all areas of my life, including the freedom to practice, or not practice, any religion I choose.
Mar 24th, 2008 (2:43 pm)No doubt about it, the Chevy Volt coming out in 2010 is going to be an important breakthrough for lots of reasons. There is a ZERO percent chance that this car will only be a concept car and not make it to large scale production. It’s going to happen. It’s a big step in the right direction.
General Motors should be congratulated for their leadership in the auto industry with this car. I’m sure GM will do their best to build us the most optimal Volt they can at the best prices they can. I bet the government will offer some very good incentives to buy it when it comes out. It’s that groundbreaking and good for the country … and the whole world.
America had better wake up and realize that "the age of cheap oil" is probably already over and things could get pretty ugly on the backside of the "peak oil" curve if we don’t get very busy doing things about it. The world may be a big place, but we simply have no idea how much oil is under the ground or where the heck it is.
Just go to YouTube and type in "energy independence" or "peak oil" and you will realize how important it is we wean ourselves off oil in a hurry. One of the documentaries out there is pretty eye opening called "A Crude Awakening":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or-TyPACK-g
With all the new drivers in China and India, we are going to HAVE TO make our cars more efficient with all the technology we can come up with … ultralight materials, high tech tires, electric drivetrains, miracle lithium batteries and ultracapacitors, etc. I have read about all sorts of stuff they might implement in 5-10 years. Things like wireless battery chargers that automatically keep your car charged up when you are in wireless range and efficient thermoelectrics that can convert heat from the tailpipe and ICE into electricity.
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc=emerging08&id=20248
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/20448/
The thing we should all be praying for is a lightweight, proven, safe, quick charging, cheap breakthrough in the batteries. If A123 or Conti/LG Chem came up with an optimal battery for the Volt that increased the range from 40 miles to 300+ miles, it would be world changing. That’s not overstating it at all. That’s why I’ll be googling the developments in the battery industry closely in the next 5 years or so. I just "know" somehow that they are going to come up with this monster breakthrough in battery technology. Once the world’s best minds get focused on something, amazing things tend to happen … often quicker than people think.
Whatever individual or company comes up with this 300+ mile quick charging battery is going to be famous for a LONG, LONG TIME that’s for sure … they’d be right up there with Einstein, Edison and Tesla, no doubt about it.
Who knows, we might already have seen who that famous scientist is in the past few months. Maybe it’ll be Dr. Cui at Stanford. Let’s hope (pray actually) his group’s "silicon lithium ion nanowire battery" will be inexpensive to manufacture and able to increase the battery capacity by 7-10 times like he’s saying.
http://www.technologyreview.com/Nanotech/20000/
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/21/gm-voltcom-interview-with-dr-cui-inventor-of-silicon-nanowire-lithium-ion-battery-breakthrough/
Mar 24th, 2008 (3:03 pm)#15 Leon said
"If oil comes down to a buck again (1999), who will want to pay an extra 10 grand for a car whose electicity cost is the equivalent of 60 cents/gallon?
Does anyone else think like this?"
Hopefully, the cost of batteries will come down fairly rapidly and the extra 10 grand for a car will disappear.
Mar 24th, 2008 (3:30 pm)#25 Estero
Given the rapid industrialization of both China and India, I don’t think gas coming down to a buck a gallon is enough of a possibility to merit concern. I’m not saying we’re in for record costs going forward, but the days of it remaining below $2 a gallon in my opinion have passed. For Leon to say "it would only take 1-2% of new car sales to cause a total oil price collapse" even if that were to include those country’s new car sales is to misunderstand the global demand/uses of gasoline.
I think there is a much higher probability of various batteries coming down in price. If cars like the Volt are a success I’d say this is a certainty. Even more certainly, there is a 0% chance of a successful Volt bringing about its own end, if a Volt cost under 20K in 10 years yet gas was $1 a gallon who would want to still want put gas in their car every couple weeks? Forget the economic, political, environmental and sustainability factors, (which would not be addressed by a sudden fall in prices) convenience of an EREV will make the Volt more appealing then cars in its class.
Mar 24th, 2008 (3:59 pm)I hope there is a part 3
Mar 24th, 2008 (4:00 pm)It makes good sense for the generator to keep the battery at 30%. You generally don’t want it to recharge the battery. You want it to get you home with a minimal use of gasoline.
I think the long term solution might be to program the competing factors into the car’s computer, and let users select an option — that would include the cost of gasoline/ethanol and electricity. Do they want to minimize gasoline usage? Minimize cost?
Additionally, the computer needs to give visual feedback on the rate of energy that is being consumed (or fed back via regenerative braking). That would have the effect of teaching the driver how to operate it in the optimal way.
Mar 24th, 2008 (4:15 pm)Much of the so -called energy crisis is hysteria, and not much more. Substitution is the ordinary answer to all scarcity, and Oil is no different. But it has taken an extended period for one industry to find a suitable substitute. Almost forty years.
Substitutes have been found and implemented for petroleum ove the past four decades for all but the Transport sector.
As HVAC, and electrical generation, and to a degree chemical hydrocarbon feedstocks as well, have shifted to other sources, Oil has in effect become a single customer product.
80% or so of all Oil pumped ends up as transport fuel. If and when an automotive substitute becomes practical, and starts to replace oil, first oil demand growth will slow, then stop, and then start to decrease out right. The US is not necessarily the only, or even the first place, that electrified autos will achieve market penetration.
Many other markets already accept limited vehicle size and performance. They enact heavy price premiums for oil. Even were oil prices to collapse in the USA to $1.00 per gallon, the comparison would still be to electricity at $0.60 gallon equivalent to $4-5 dollars per gallon of oil in the EU.
In short, the conversion to electrified transport will proceed irrespective of whether oil prices collapse. And they will.
It is deliciious to anticipate the prospects of Commissars and Oil Sheiks begging anybody to buy their Oil, at any price, but that is obviously what will indeed happen.
Mar 24th, 2008 (4:19 pm)Jim I ,#23 "Once I make the jump to an electric vehicle, I am never going back, because price is not my main motiviation. I am sick of being held hostage by people that would just as soon kill me, for no other reason than I happen to believe in freedom in all areas of my life, including the freedom to practice, or not practice, any religion I choose."
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
——————————————————–
For you guys who think gasoline/oil prices may drop because of the Volt, no offense, but I think you are be too optimistic.
I’m not saying I think you are wrong, just too optimistic. I know that I would like to home heating oil to drop back to the $1.05 USD I was paying back in the winter of 2003/2004.
Mar 24th, 2008 (4:49 pm)I think Rashiid is right about the high amount of… optimism here, and I welcome it, but it doesn’t seem to be rooted in a full understanding of the variables.
stas peterson,
I think it is important to remember that even if 1% of new car sales were an EREV, (you would still need the range extender to be on BioDiesel/Fuel Cell or they’re still burning gas) we are still dealing with 100 years of gasoline infrastructure. Granted I assume cars only operate on average for about 10-20 years, but even if 100% of American new cars sold were EREV that used EFlex that didn’t burn gas, which is not realistic, you would still be talking about a generation for autos not be dependent on oil to be out of the system.
Mar 24th, 2008 (4:54 pm)#30 Rashiid Amul:
Well I would go you one better and say that they are wrong. If and when the Volt and its competitors actually materialize, they may slow the rate of increase in oil prices somewhat, but collapse? Not likely.
I can see one or more downturns maybe, to try to woo us back into our gas guzzlers. As others have pointed out here, this has happened in the past, but draw the trend line through the peaks and valleys and it is ever upward.
Mar 24th, 2008 (5:29 pm)Where do I send My deposit… I would be thrilled to be a beta tester. My next car will be electric… Yes is my answer to the Chevrolet Volt…. I would beta test a mule….. Next month is OK… TED
Mar 24th, 2008 (5:39 pm)The idea of a hybrid car is not new. The idea goes all the way to the early 1900s. The thing that is different now is that we
now have the technology to make it all work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle
Go down to the history section. Series is the way to go.
Mar 24th, 2008 (5:47 pm)Demand for oil, going away? No way. China and India are scouring the globe for to insure they provide their citizenry with sufficient supplies. Any drop in demand in the USA will be instantly lapped up by others.
We need the GM-Volt to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, not to speak of Global Warming.
Mar 24th, 2008 (6:21 pm)On the subject of oil as a strategic commodity, the best analogy I’ve heard is from former CIA director James Woolsey. Salt used to be the only means of preserving food. Countries fought wars over control of it. Refrigeration made salt as a preservative obsolete. Now, nobody cares how much salt costs or where it comes from.
Mar 24th, 2008 (6:22 pm)#15 Leon said"If oil comes down to a buck again (1999), who will want to pay an extra 10 grand for a car whose electicity cost is the equivalent of 60 cents/gallon?Does anyone else think like this?"
The prospect of gas dropping due to the rollout of cars like the volt is not going to happen. Global demand is growing and the introduction of cars like the volt and the prius will not happen over night. Couple this with the fact that even if ALL cars in 2010 were 100% all electric with no gas backup it would still take quite a long time for gas demand to come down because 99% of the people don’t buy a new car every year and many never do. So it is going to take some time before all gas cars end up being crushed.
Also the price discrepancy will all but vanish down the road. Batteries will get cheaper, and assuming batteries can be improved (cost/charge time etc) even a little then the range extender can be dropped altogether… at least in many of the cars offered. Remember more car option into the future.
*note: There is already a car that is going to be manufactured (can’t remember by who) that will have a battery that is capable of being recharged in minutes. If that technology gets widespread then gas stations will start offering recharge stations and then the need for the range extender is nolonger needed at all!
And what if these supposed new improvements in ultracapacitors is not false! This would be another way to allow superfast charging.
Mar 24th, 2008 (7:36 pm)I agree that some monetary risk and an application should be part of the process to give GM a wide initial beta-type assessment of the Volt for a defined time period.
China’s BYD auto is attempting to beat the race as fast as possible. Even if somewhat inperfect, the Volt needs to get on the road ASAP with upgrades available as it progresses. All auto companies hold themselves to warranted safety and specs even after the vehicle is aging.
I am particularly interested in the plug-in aspect of this vehicle based upon a solar source of electrical power.
Mar 24th, 2008 (7:36 pm)Once electric cars are the mainstream, I would like nothing more then for the oil industry to be on their hands and knees BEGGING for people to buy their product.
When that day comes, it’ll be on OUR terms, not theirs.
Mar 24th, 2008 (8:26 pm)I just noticed that most (all?) of the Volt-Nation videos are posted on the AutoBlogGreen YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoblogGreen The ones I have watched seem to have slightly better audio/video quality.
Mar 24th, 2008 (8:37 pm)*sigh* Anybody who thinks terrorists are after us for our "freedom" needs a reality check and a history lesson. There are many free countries out there, some arguably more free than ours. (Holland… Switzerland… etc.) The terrorists are after us because of our joke of a foreign policy in the middle east… the installation of the Shah in Iran, funding and sales of weapons to Israel and Iraq, the Afghanistan-USSR war, etc. Remember, Saddam and Osama are products of OUR gov’t, and we’re currently best friends with (and selling weapons to) Saudi Arabia, where 19 of the 9/11 hijackers came from. But if you want to believe that they arbitrarily hate us for our "freedom," fine.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:23 pm)As a retired Air Force veteran, I spent twenty years with so many destinations all ending in the Middle-East for Oil. I’ll be a proud, true-blue American with a car that starts to point us away from war over pumping oil. Have you been there? It’s the equivalent of a poor country watching our streets to keep us safe. They are LOADED with American greenbacks. Every person in Kuwait had bags of money compared to the far poorer enlisted and officers protecting (said facetiously) them.
CHEVY VOLT – American-made, American FUELED.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:25 pm)$10,000 deposit ready to go. This former military is tired of Oil for our young men and women’s lives.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:30 pm)I need to be on record as being the FIRST person with his hand up and the FIRST person that he pointed to and said "SOLD" regarding a deposit. I may be old, but I can still be quick (g)(Don’t go there). A verbal contract like that is binding, isn’t it? (just kidding – kinda). I do agree that enthusiats who’ve been carefully screened (by someone like, say, myself) should help GM with the beta rollout. "If not US, WHO????"
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:52 pm)There seems to be a slight disconnect in our posts. On the one hand, most seem to realize production of EREV vehicles will end our dependence on foreign oil, and yet go along with one OEM slowly bring one model to market. Years ago, we had a song about how many this or how many that, with the answer blowing in the wind. How many soldiers must sacrifice before we start building EREV’s? The answer my friends is blowing in the wind.
Mar 24th, 2008 (9:52 pm)I offered Ed Peper a $10K deposit right there. I actually had a check in my hand.
He said yes to be deposit, but heavily implied he meant deposits to be taken sometime in the future (he didn’t actually take it from me at Volt Nation).
Ed appears to be thrilled at the prospect of such grass roots support for the vehicle. He wants to keep it a premium vehicle for sometime, how long was unclear, but at least a couple of years was my impression.
Mar 24th, 2008 (10:16 pm)"I need to be on record as being the FIRST person with his hand up" – Tagamet
You already were.
"By the way, when a "real" waiting list came up and deposits were mentioned Tag’s arm went up with the speed of li…ummm…Volts. They kind of two-stepped this issue too." -me on Volt Nation Has Arrived
Mar 24th, 2008 (10:26 pm)Tom, the terrorists certainly do hate us for our freedom. An example is Bin Laden recently threatening Denmark and some other small European countries over cartoons that have been published. He also said that the insulting cartoons were a greater crime than the military ones.
So, they do hate us for our freedom. But that’s not the only reason by any means. There is a very long laundry list.
What I think we can all agree on is that the following policy is insanity, if we can choose otherwise with a little innovation.
"I worked for four administrations under three presidents. And in every one of those, our policy was that we would go to war to protect the energy reserves in the Persian Gulf. That is a major and very significant national security interest that we have."
– Secretary of State, James Baker III, October 2001
And I hope everyone of all parties and all continents fully understand the gravity of the problem and find solutions to it as soon as possible.
Mar 24th, 2008 (10:49 pm)#40 Tom,
I read the whole thread and see no evidence of what triggered this stream of consciousness, but you should consider peddling these tiresome half truths on other forums, this is about the Chevy Volt. Some people hear that Saddam was a product of "our" gov or that we sold him weaponry and they just accept that its true without asking for hard evidence. Its not, for future reference, but when "we" allowed that same Shah to be overthrown to appease these people "upset about our joke of a foreign policy" started the real trouble.
I think we all agree that getting America off all foreign oil is a critical goal for a myriad of reasons. Please Tom, leave the empty political talking points to empty political forums. Thank you.
Mar 24th, 2008 (11:01 pm)On the issue of cost rationalizing the Volt vis a vis gas prices I’d say this. People are not going to buy the Volt because the math works for it paying for itself over the years, especially if you’ve got a fairly new car. Every year there are people looking to buy a new car simply because theirs are old and they need a new one. For what ever reason it’s usually been on the order of 16-17 million a year. Faced with the choice of buying another Opec supporter (especially with current gas prices….future??) or the Volt, the premium looks much smaller and viewed this way it will most likely pay for itself over the years if not in gas savings, then in satisfaction.
Someone on this thread mentioned Opec dropping the price back down to a dollar a gallon. Unlikely? I’d say it’s possible because Opec is watching this entire thing. And as we all know Opec is a cartel, and cartels take care of themselves regardless of what they have to do. They are anti competition and self serving by definition. So if they thought that taking that kind of hit to achieve their goals of killing EVs was necessary, they wouldn’t hesitate.
The best part about the Volt is that if you believe the $1/gal Opec scenario, and I’d say it’s possible, one drive and instantaneous torque in pure silence and you’ll ask yourself …..why are we driving ICE vehicles anyway? The success of the vehicle isn’t totally dependent on it’s efficiency, it’s a performer.
Mar 24th, 2008 (11:28 pm)Ah, I see. People can say things like this:
I am sick of being held hostage by people that would just as soon kill me, for no other reason than I happen to believe in freedom in all areas of my life
Which is as political as it gets, but when I reply with an opposing viewpoint, everybody jumps all over me. I should expect nothing less than a bunch of rednecks on an American car fan site, even if the car is electric.
Mar 24th, 2008 (11:51 pm)Grizzly #49:
I think OPEC would have a hard time dropping the worldwide price of oil back to the 1970′s level. They are spending that money, and like it. Also, the leaders of those countries hold on to their power because of the money flowing in from oil revenues. Take that away, and the power also goes away. Do you think that anyone would seriously listen to Hugo Chavez, if he was not in control of all that oil based revenue? So they are kind of between a rock and a hard place. It would probably be simpler for them just to buy up all the major auto manufacturers…..
It may take 20 years to fully convert personal transportation off of oil based IC engines, but the sooner that clock starts, the better….. And I truly believe that once this conversion starts, the momentum will be too strong to be stopped.
Mar 25th, 2008 (1:01 am)I have been called a lot of things in my life, but never a redneck….. Now I can add that to my list.
Rant starts here:
Tom, since your comments have been directed specifically at me, I would like to respond, and then I will let it go, and you can say or believe whatever you wish:
1. Do you seriously think we would be able to have these types of discussions in Tehran or the Taliban controlled portions of Afghanistan? If not, why is the USA to be blamed?
2. I would like for you to explain to the mothers, sisters, and daughters of the Muslim cleric authorized "honor killings" of women in those countries about the freedoms they enjoy, and again how this is all to be blamed on the foreign policy of the USA.
3. When the Pope made some comments that were not complimentary to Islam, and an al-Qaeda militant group vowed war against "the worshippers of the cross" and the West, I again ask how this is the fault of the USA?
I am sorry, but IMHO, whenever religious extremists of any faith take political control of a country, the first thing that happens is that personal freedoms are restricted. That is why one of the principals of our founding fathers was the idea of a government separated from any religion, and that was put in place as First Amendment of the Bill Of Rights. And it works………..
I get awfully tired of having my country blamed for every problem in the world, by the very people that have nothing to propose as a solution but hate.
End of rant, and end of my discussion on this topic.
I apologize to everyone for the hijacking of this thread.
Mar 25th, 2008 (2:06 am)1 dollar a gallon gas MIGHT delay electric vehicles but it certainly won’t STOP electic vehicles. Electric is simply better and ultimately will be almost as cheap or possibly even cheaper to buy than a complicated ICE auto. And without a doubt electric will be cheaper to drive and cheaper in maintenance cost. When the cost become equal depends on the price of gas but the progress of the electric car will go forward regardless of the price of gas.
Mar 25th, 2008 (2:37 am)Do you seriously think we would be able to have these types of discussions in Tehran or the Taliban controlled portions of Afghanistan?
Strawman argument. Okay, we’re free (sort of), they’re not. You win that point, which nobody was arguing anyway. How does it follow that they want to kill us because of our freedom?
My solution for all of this is not hate, it’s a noninterventionist foreign policy. I campaigned for Ron Paul, I donated to him, I caucused for him, and I voted for him in our primary. I did what I could but unfortunately it didn’t work out.
Mar 25th, 2008 (11:30 am)Jim I #51
I agree with you. I guess I wasn’t clear enough in stating that while I don’t think it’s anywhere near likely, it is possible. The point I was trying to make is that a good part of the Volt’s success will be it’s appeal beyond the tree hugger aspect. Incidentally, this seemed to be the point Frank Weber was making at Volt Nation.
Mar 25th, 2008 (1:41 pm)Tom,
No, what you quoted was not expressly a political point, only your "opposite" point that you uncontrollably spewed forth was. Your response demonstrates how disconnected this propoganda has left you from reality. I pity you. Being a Ron Paul supporter you are comforted by blaming America for all the problems in the middle east, which is simplistic, myopic, and worse, untrue– still awaiting on that actual evidence that the US sold weapons to Saddam or that America created Bin Ladin. I know it sounds nice, you’ve heard it often, and on Ron Paul forums these things go unchallenged, but in the real world intelligent people ask for proof. Hence your preferred candidate got throttled in every primary for that reason, he had a web of innuendo and rumor, nothing more.
Nice ineffectual comeback attacking people here as rednecks. The irony is most of the people on here are quite technical and educated, they follow the scientific method which leaves them skeptical to less educated people who make baseless claims and get upset when their "faith" that all problems are based on some "joke" of America’s policies gets challenged. If you can’t grasp that you need to take a break and read the posts on here rather then attacking them.
Mar 25th, 2008 (2:56 pm)To GM Volt Fan #24 as has been said before, Dr. Cui’s breakthrough will have no effect on the overall capacity of a battery he said it himself! There are two parts to a battery, anode & cathode improvement in one without the other will make no overall gain. Although 1/2 promising I would not bank on it just yet, the Volt is much more promising than a 10 fold improvement in overall battery capacity. Regardless of who wants to kill us or why, if you take away there bullets & swords it is a lot harder for them to do it. If we stopped buying their oil tomorrow it would hurt their economies but in no way cripple them as many have invested elsewhere. But it would end the foreign policy excuse of why we must send our men & women to die in distant lands and it sure to HEQQ is not "to make this country safer", the lie spread from the oval office that has maintained open borders by policy for the last 7 years & has done everything it can to relax not strengthen our border security via DHS & its policies. This country has itself to blame for putting people & parties like this in office. There is no choice in 2008 that will change this they all want open borders & to instill disrespect for what it means to be a US Citizen. There is no US loyalty in those who would be legalized, their goal is to return the Western US to Mexico and it will happen whether or not the flag flown changes it will be the same, it is almost there now! Learn Spanish it will become the National language before English does because of the jellyfish in DC. Long live the second amendment!
Mar 25th, 2008 (3:44 pm)57. Neutron Flux:
I’m certainly not an expert in battery technology, but I know how to google pretty well.
I was reading a few weeks about this company NanoSphere that says they can use nanoparticles to improve the cathode for batteries (and improve fuel cells too).
http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=HX0CFVMAZ12PAQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=206801669&pgno=1
"The first commercial product inspired by QuantumSphere’s technology will debut later this year: a battery using a cathode coated with the startup’s nanoparticles, thereby increasing its energy density 5x over alkaline cells and boosting power by 320 percent. The first commercial nonrechargeable batteries with this increased capacity will be announced by an as-yet-unnamed major U.S. battery maker in the second half of 2008. "
http://www.qsinano.com/apps_batteries.php
I’m thinking that combining Dr. Cui’s silicon nanowire anode with these nanoparticles for the cathode could make for a helluva battery … maybe even one with 5-10 times the performance of the batteries GM is considering from A123 and LGChem. I’ll take 3 times better any day. I don’t know if it’s technically possible, but I’m sure somebody out there is trying to see if it is.
I’m sure there are hundreds if not thousands of hardcore scientists and engineers all over the world trying to make the next big breakthrough in lithium ion battery technology. You just never know what they might come up with. I bet there’s a bunch of small and large companies doing "skunk works" research and development that you won’t don’t hear about until they are about ready to sign contracts with auto manufacturers.
I suspect we’re going to get a lot of pleasant surprises in battery research in the next 5 years. World changing battery technology breakthroughs hopefully. A123 and LGChem hopefully already have some scientists and engineers grinning in their labs right now because they know they can increase the range of their batteries from 40 miles up to 300+ miles … and charge them up pretty quickly.
No more ICE "range extender" needed in cars like the Volt. Hell, they might get rid of the ICE engine if the electric range gets to 150 miles much less 300. 150 miles might be plenty for those people who are afraid of getting stranded with no juice. It’ll get rid of the cost of the ICE engine and other car parts, etc. There will be "city cars" and "interstate cars" for long trips …. one of each in every household.
Here’s some stuff about battery technology I googled up a few days ago.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/technologies/energy_storage/index.html
It’s pretty technical but still interesting. Lots of brainpower going into the cars of the future these days. I’m ready for these "future cars" to get here fast. I don’t want to be paying $6-10 bucks a gallon for gas in 2012 because the people in China and India are getting just as addicted to oil as we are now and the oil companies can’t seem to find another monster oil field like they have in Saudi Arabia.
Mar 25th, 2008 (6:40 pm)Where were all of you when the EV1 was being developed?
I’ve been very interested in EV’s since the inception of the EV1.
One moving part in the engine… no transmission. After maintaining ICE engines for 35 years that sounds soooo good.
I actually drove a EV1 for two days. Put 150 miles driving all over LA while on vacation. I’m from Pgh. land of potholes, salt in winter and hills. Our cars are driven on torture tracks every day. This simple driveline is very appealling. If the VOLT is half the car the EV1 was …. you will love it.
It will be a long time before a car as efficient as the EV1 will be built.
Mar 25th, 2008 (6:45 pm)I hope GM is planning a practical… utility version of the VOLT.
Plain and simple .. with the cost at a minimum.
Rugged and durable materials.
Like the original Saturns.
Mar 25th, 2008 (7:09 pm)0-60 in 9 seconds?
If GM makes another Save-the-World-Compromise-Mobile then they will have changed nothing. Prius and Smart Car will have that market sewn up.
Mar 26th, 2008 (8:05 am)Here is a suggestion for the rollout:
(a) Give all the readers of this blog a sequential VoltNation number, in the order in which they put down their name for a new Volt
(b) Give everyone with a number the chance to put down a deposit of $10K at a dealership.
(c) Provide service training to those dealerships that have one or more deposits.
(d) Deliver the cars in the order of the VoltNation number.
(e) As soon as those deliveries are complete, deliver the cars to other customers.
One could do the above without the VoltNation part, just by accepting deposits, but: Doing the above insures that the car is first in the hands of people who have more than average interest and knowledge. Additionally, it’s a procedure that starts up the dealer network in a way that is cooperative factory-dealer-customer. It will create buzz, because people from VoltNation like to talk about the car. Presumably the introduction will be a brief transient phase of just a few months, but in that critical phase the people involved will want the car to be a success and inclined to have a positive outlook as the initial kinks get worked out.
Mar 26th, 2008 (8:29 am)IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: A new forum thread is now available to everyone to RANK the top 10, 15, 20 or so questions not yet answered (or not fully answered) by GM at VoltNation or elsewhere. Go to…..
http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175
…..to rank these questions I’m calling the "Lutz List" from most important to least important. The deadline is Wed, April 2 ….1 week from today.
Mar 28th, 2008 (9:46 am)Where do I send My deposit… I would be thrilled to be a beta tester. My next car will be electric… Yes is my answer to the Chevrolet Volt…. I would beta test a mule….. Next month is OK… TED
My sentiments exactly. My current car is electric, but I’d like a better one. If I were GM, I’d have electrified an existing model and had EVs for sale by now. The more revolutionary the product, the more chance for failure. Personally, I’d rather have an adequate product now than the perfect one in the dim future. Current projections make it look like I have no reasonable expectation of really buying a Volt before 2015.