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GM Has Ten Volt Prototype Battery Packs - Picture of A123/CPI Pack
March 21st, 2008 | Posted in: Battery, Volt Nation
Some of the premier green blogs gathered some great new information from our Volt Nation event and have posted it for the world to see. We had in attendance AutoBlogGreen, GreenCarCongress, and Treehugger.com.
GreenCarCongress was told by Frank Weber that GM actually possesses a total of 10 battery pack from both teams. We also heard from Frank that those packs will be in mules within weeks.
Treehugger video producer George Spyros caught some hi-def footage of Bob Lutz holding up special pictures just for the Volt Nation attendees of the CPI/A123 pack, which is shown above.
That’s what I call spreading the word! And to any new readers coming from those sites, welcome, and join us in the Volt revolution.
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Posted by: Lyle
43 Responses to “GM Has Ten Volt Prototype Battery Packs - Picture of A123/CPI Pack”
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March 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Reinforcing what other VoltHeads have said, I think there ought to be a way for those who can to put our $ where our philosophical position lies by making a deposit on a Volt - NOW, in 2008. In all fairness, GM’s skittishness on the topic of taking money for a future vehicle about which significant technological and mass production questions remain to be answered is understandable. (And I’d never write a check for a car without a guarantee in writing that it would be refunded if necessary!) But this strikes me as another way for those of us in Volt Nation - and, after all, we’re the tip of the spear - to keep the pressure on GM to see the Volt through to production, as an affordable, reliable automobile. What do the rest of you think?
March 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Rob,
I couldn’t agree more that GM should start taking deposits. $2,500 sounds reasonable. It’s not the mere $99 that Smart required; it’s a little more serious. You are right that it should be fully refundable and come with a reservation slot. It would also help GM project the true demand out there for this new car as well as market it.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I’m okay with the deposit also, as long as it can be refundable.
But part of me thinks that having it refundable doesn’t make us sound serious enough.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
In my experience a consumer protects her/himself by requiring from a vendor the ability to recover a deposit on an automobile. (Toyota held onto the deposit for my ‘06 Prius for over a year, with the ability in writing for me to get it back, with no quibbling.) Frankly, I think GM will be astonished (in a nice way) by Volt Nation members’ willingness to plunk down the brass so far before the Volt hits the showroom.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I think as a multi-billion dollar corporation GM really doesn’t need or want deposits for a car that is still very early in development. Do you really think a few thousand bucks here and there is going to influence them one way or another to produce the car or change the way they roll them out? This isn’t a new gimmicky startup like SMART. Just let them do their thing in their own way and time and soon enough the product will available.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
What I’m talking about may be nothing more than a symbolic action, but sometimes symbolic actions have an impact far beyond their size.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:44 pm
What I am most struck by is how this very same battery pack could easily be placed into a small battery-only personal commuter vehicle, even a three-wheeler. You would think that GM would recognize how easy this simple incremental technology would meet the California Air Resources Board proposed mandate for Zero Emissions Vehicles. Why do we have to take our "entire house" with us just for a simple commute to work? Why not something small and highly efficient to commute to work?
March 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I"m in for a deposit. A refund is without question should they not follow through, anything less would be tantamount to fraud. $2500 is reasonable and shows definite seriousness on the part of the buyer. It’s also not a few thousand dollars here or there. It’s a lot of money when you take that times 1,000 or 5,000 buyers. It also would allow us to be given a slot to receive one of the first cars. I want one when it goes on sale. I don’t want to wait till 2011 as I don’t think my 2000 Bonneville will make it more than a couple years.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pm
On the deposit. If GM has production scaled back initially to for fear of out producing demand then the deposits might help alleviate those fears and get them to realize that demand IS out there. Return on deposit only if you aren’t allowed to buy a car because one isn’t available for you.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Jim,Actually, a kind of vehicle to which you allude does exist, albeit with acid gel batteries. The ZENN car (i.e., Zero Emissions, No Noise) is built in Quebec. Classified in the U.S. as a Low Speed Vehicle, it’s batteries will take you between 30-50 miles at 25 MPH, depending on how you drive, road conditions, etc. The ZENN will only hold two people, and as it’s a LSV, cannot be driven on the highway, and has no airbags. This description makes the ZENN sound like a glorified golf cart, but its more than that!
March 21st, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Ten battery packs multiplies the amount of testing that can be performed concurrently and also provides a lot more confidence when it comes to reliability and longitivity
estimates.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pm
T he picture of the Volt battery pack is very impressive! I can only wonder how it would be replaced should that need/desire ever arise. I would assume it would be from the vehicle underside. Of course, the alternative would be to dismantle the interior to remove/replace the battery pack.
Has anyone ever asked GM this question? Does anyone have any knowledge how this would be accomplished?
March 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
#1 Rob:
#2 Dave B:
#3 Rashiid Amul:
As you know, I have been advocating for a deposit program for quite a while as well. I said that I would accept that it be refundable if GM backs out, but not if I back out. I agree with Rob at #6 that the symbolic impact can be huge. Smart got a lot of ink out of their 30,000 deposits at $99. Imagine the buzz if GM got 30,000 deposits at $2500.
The only problem I have now is the ever increasing price. Every time it goes up another $5000, it takes me a few weeks to rationalize it and regain my enthusiasm. I would like to keep the number of escape hatches to a minimum, as they quickly reduce the symbolic value of the deposits. However, I am coming to the point where I have to think that there would have to be a maximum price point, beyond which the customer could bail. Frankly, I’m thinking that I may have passed it already.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
banjoe, SmartCar’s aren’t from a gimmick startup… they are part of Daimler, Germany’s largest car maker.
Sadly those SmartCar’s I think get worse miles/gallon than a Prius
March 21st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Hey, Lyle!Feel free to jump in on this topic whenever you wish; after all, you’ve had far more face time with the GM folks than the rest of us. (smile)
March 21st, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I can see the value of a deposit and even support the concept but I can also see the downside of deposits from the GM perspective. Let’s not forget that deposits are likely to come from around the world should GM decide to accept them.
How is it that GM can take those deposits now and give a reservation slot (#2 DaveB suggestion) when they are still struggling with rollout and dealer training issues?
March 21st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Continuation of #16.
Wouldn’t GM have to settle the rollout and deatler training issues before the could ever consider accepting deposits and giving reservation slots?
March 21st, 2008 at 3:28 pm
#12 Estero
The Volt battery pack is installed into the car from the bottom.
If you go to the post with "…GM Expects to Lose Money…" and see comment #63 by Thom, he has a link to some pictures from the VoltNation meeting. Slides 16 & 17, upper left hand corner show the battery pack from underneath the vehicle. These pictures are from a presentation by GM.
Also, if you haven’t been to the gallery, there are some graphics which show the chassis and the location of the batteries.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Noel Park, #13 "However, I am coming to the point where I have to think that there would have to be a maximum price point, beyond which the customer could bail. Frankly, I’m thinking that I may have passed it already."
Sadly, I know exactly how you feel. It is very disheartening learning that the car you strongly desire and strongly feel will change our country forever, is slowly being priced out of our budget. Please don’t let it get you down yet. It’s too early. Things keep changing rapidly. Let’s wait until 2010 to figure out what we are going to do. By then, there will be many competitors to the Volt. But I really want to support GM on this.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
It really does not matter. I am sure would not mind to deposit my money to GM. If GM do not use deposit. Then I just wait til the car is ready. Either way, at the end of the progress, I’m getting the volt. You two just don’t want to miss it or it have to be the first car off the line.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:52 pm
#18 BillR
Thanks for the information. The pictures tell the story!
March 21st, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Volt Nation:
I just read a bunch of this ebook by Amory Lovins called "Winning the Oil Endgame". You should check it out if you can. You can register on this website and then download it for free:
https://nc.rmi.org/NETCOMMUNITY/SSLPage.aspx?pid=186&srcid=269
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
He pretty much has the vision that me and a lot of people have about the future of the auto industry. It looks like Lovins might be one of the main guys you ought to google when it comes to energy independence and the efficient cars of the future.
http://www.oilendgame.com/TheAuthors.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amory_Lovins
He convinced me that lightweight new materials like carbon fiber are going to be just as important as the new lithium batteries and the E-flex drivetrain, etc. Weight and aerodynamic drag are going to be crucial to getting the most out of new E-REV cars that are on the way.
I’m hoping that Bob Lutz and his key engineers have read some of Amory Lovins’ stuff. Maybe GM will have him do some consulting on the Volt project. He might have some ideas they haven’t thought of. He knows a lot about lightweight materials.
He may have a funny name, but the guy really does know his stuff when it comes to energy issues and getting the auto industry headed in the right direction to the cars and trucks we need. Oil is a lot more critical to the world than you might think. The U.S. government spends MAJOR bucks just on the military to keep those oil supplies safe and flowing … a big cost you don’t hear much about. You’ll probably hear more from him on TV and in magazine articles if the price of gas keeps going up.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4569577556800822039
Charlie Rose and other TV shows ought to have him on to talk about "cars of the future" and energy independence more often. This is definitely a hot topic with gas at $4 per gallon in some places already. I’m sure the truckers want to know if we’re doing everything we can to deal with these gas prices. Their businesses are on the line.
America and the rest of the world needs to go to rehab for our oil addiction. Amory Lovins will be a good counselor who will help us see the light and wean us off oil in an efficient manner. He’s all about efficiency that’s for sure.
March 21st, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Why would I get involved in a deposit program that would tie up my money until late 2010? After all, in December of 2010, I can walk into a Chevy dealer and offer them the price of whatever hybrid they have on hand or - if they can’t satisfy me - I can walk down the street to Toyota and pick up the latest Prius (almost certainly a significant improvement over the already excellent current Prius) with no waiting.
And who knows what I’d be offered down the street at the Honda dealer. Perhaps Ford will have something new in play, a follow-on to their street-proven Escape hybrid, which hit the market in 2005.
March 21st, 2008 at 4:59 pm
"SmartCar’s aren’t from a gimmick startup… they are part of Daimler, Germany’s largest car maker."
Yeah, I know, but they are new to the US. They need all the help they can get for a tiny car that gets pretty crappy mileage for its size. The VOLT won’t need anything to help sell itself as long as the price is right and gas stays expensive.
March 21st, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Is it just me or is anyone else having problems visualizing the battery in that photo? I see the table and on the rear left what looks like a rectangular battery in a silver casing with what appears to be a reflection on it’s side, and then something to the right. The batt should be T-shaped, but maybe my mind is playing games on me.
March 21st, 2008 at 5:21 pm
The battery is indeed T-shaped. There was — briefly — a wonderful video on YouTube courtesy of Autobloggreen from the 2008 New York City AutoShow Volt Nation meeting where someone from GM, I think it is Frank Weber[?] did a surprising "Open Kimono" on the battery pack, including shots of it attached to the undercarriage of test mule. Bolt on the bottom, not slide-in. Obviously, a T-shaped pack doesn’t make for a slide-in. I think he also said 16 Kilowatts, 250 nominal cell count, although I don’t know if that makes any sense or not? But maybe he Open Kimono’ed too much because minutes later the video magically disappeared from YouTube!
March 21st, 2008 at 5:45 pm
At only 10,000 units rolling out for the first year GM doesn’t need to take ‘deposits’ they will sell everyone, even at 60k.
Also, with it only being available in 5-10 cities, it is a logistical nightmare taking/validing deposits.
March 21st, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Don’t know what is going on with YouTube — its indexing of the Autobloggreen postings re Volt Nation don’t seem to be working right — but here is info on the Frank Weber "battery open kimono" segment:
NYIAS 2008: Volt Nation townhall 2 of 6http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJl4U4gZUTs
March 21st, 2008 at 6:42 pm
It looks to me like GM has a few folks pushing the Volt, but it still appears that there are many in management who are not convinced of the saleability of the vehicle. One way to prove that there really is a market is to produce customers. A deposit program would do this.
March 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pm
For those that have disposable income and have to be the first on the block a deposit may make some sense for that "feel good" feeling. For most everyone else it makes little sense to put money down on a product that is still on the drawing board and unproven. Who knows what else may be out there by 2011? There may be even better options both economically and technically. It’s just too far out in the future to have any certainty. I want a Volt just like everyone else but before I commit hard earned dollars I need to see what I’m buying
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 am
GM = Green Machine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Big Oil . start shaking in your boots ,your time is almost over.
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:24 am
#29 Banjoez, keep your money in your pocket, Buy the car you want, If you have fears then WAIT . A couple of years from now the e-flex system takes off then buy one. banjoez, n0 body is forcing you to buy a Volt. I guess the question is, What’s your Point ?
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:14 am
Quoted from Green Car Congress…
“In the next few days”, revealed Weber, “we will be signing off on the final production design of the Volt. It is the highest priority project that this company has.”
So are we going to see the final design soon?
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:45 am
Sure hope so. I’d like to know what the final interior will look like and hopefully they’ll ditch those stupid paddle shifters. There is nothing wrong with a familiar time tested short throw stick like the Ev-1 had. Am I wrong on this??
I’m also hoping that the interior is more pleasing than that awful white in the concept vehicle. I am encouraged by the slightly higher ride and more trunk space.
Let’s see the final (frozen) design!
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:22 am
"#29 Banjoez, keep your money in your pocket, Buy the car you want, If you have fears then WAIT . A couple of years from now the e-flex system takes off then buy one. banjoez, n0 body is forcing you to buy a Volt. I guess the question is, What’s your Point ?"
Jeff J: My point? Common Sense.
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Now I understand Lutz’ comment that the production battery packs would NOT be chrome plated. From where I was standing I could not see the pictures but could hear his comments. The video of Lutz showing these pictures (this is one of the shots he showed) posted to this blog later includes his "chrome plated" comment.
March 22nd, 2008 at 9:50 pm
It’s the chrome and the reflections in the photo above that gave me trouble seeing the battery. Particularly the top of the "T" on the right which appears to be reflecting colors off the ceiling.
It actually looked to me like a container with colored rags in it.
And of course the fronts of the two main packs are reflecting something just below the camera.
March 23rd, 2008 at 10:08 am
Dear Volt addicts, I too am an American, retired US Air Force, tired of seeing my friends and neigbhors kids now taking turns at dying in the Middle-East for Oil. I pray this car comes soon and proves a hit.
Dear GM, I’m standing by with my deposit check for $10,000. Ready. Able. Hopeful.
March 23rd, 2008 at 10:11 am
GM, if this is an added incentive, I’m in a van pool that just started up when gas hit $3.25 a gallon here in Denver CO. All of us own American brand, American made vehicles. None of us are in our own cars, none drive much anymore. None will drive again until electric cars, not powered by Mid-East hatred Gasoline. All of us are retired military from one branch or another. All of us are watching the Volt develop.
March 27th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Thanks to all you VoltHeads that responded to my March 21st trial balloon about encouraging GM by placing deposits for the Volt a couple years before it hits the showroom floor. Obviously we are a diverse and opinionated group - and that’s a good thing!
March 29th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Forget deposits. Let GM roll this vehicle out however they want. We’ll all get a chance eventually.
I may not be able to buy a Volt for a few years. But I will reward GM for its innovation with the Volt and millions more Flex Fuel vehicles now on the road by purchasing my next car from them. It may be smaller and cheaper but hopefully flex fuel capable. I encourage all of you to do the same. For those of you who can afford to buy a Volt my hat’s off to you. For the rest of us, we must reward GM for their forward thinking and vision when all the other big car companies have been sitting on their hands protecting their short term profits.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:27 pm
You cannot buy a fwd thinking vehicle NOW. So, you lose. And so does GM. In a few more years, you’ll still be saying “I may not be able to buy a Volt for a few years”. Lose now, lose tomorrow - ’sgreat.