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Volt Nation Press Coverage: A Million Volts, GM expects to Lose Money at First

March 20th, 2008 | Posted in: Volt Nation

Another great outcome of the Volt Nation event is that we are getting considerable press coverage. This will help spread the word. It is interesting to see how reporters describe our efforts.

First up, Katie Merx at the Detroit Free press wrote this article on how the Volt fans are energized.

She noted how Bob Lutz sensed our energy, and how chief engineer Tony Posawatz hopes to learn from us. I got called a cult leader again..oh well.

Next there is a piece from ABCnews.com. This one showcased Mr.Lutz’ answer to one of our readers questions, about how GM was wrong in not producing a hybrid at the earlier time as Toyota did, he conceded that GM already had the technology to do so but did not want to take the financial risk at the time. They do plan to take that risk now on the Volt, which is the headline of the third article from The Detroit News. They also reported that GM hopes one day to build a million Volts. Unfortunately that report didn’t mention this site.

Welcome to any and all new readers of the site…please join us in the discussion, the debate, and the revolution.

Video is forthcoming.

Hats off to nasaman, Tagamet, and GeorgeK who all were interviewed in these articles.

Posted by: Lyle

79 Responses to “Volt Nation Press Coverage: A Million Volts, GM expects to Lose Money at First”

Statik Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:52 am

Quick question as I wasn’t able to attend.

Did the statement of a 40k Volt come up…but fettered with ‘we hope rebates’ will bring it down to the low 30s come up?

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:01 am

Statik, #1

As I recall, the price question was answered with, "We don’t know".

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Jon P. Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:18 am

I asked the question that Lutz is quoted as answering in the ABC News article. (second to wipe the big cheesy smile from my face)

They didn’t give a price, but honestly i got the distinct impression that they totally understood that the pricing of this car was going to be a main part in it’s success. Lutz said they would sell them at a loss, the other price guy said in response to one our questions "we will not price the volt out of the market".

I left there with the feeling that they were taking the promise less deliver more approach. Lutz said 50 miles all EV in the beginning of the batteries life, earlier he said around 30K. He said a 7 second car, but the other guys were saying 8 seconds.

Bob i love you man!

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2Snowboard Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:20 am

Did anyone address what the timeline was for the other ICE’s to go to production? I’m particularly interested in getting a Volt that runs on (bio) diesel rather then gasoline, which I’ve read is planned for with the E-Flex but am getting the impression is being pushed further back that 2010. My question, if I wait till 2011 or 2012, will I be able to by a hybrid-diesel Volt?

Great job Lyle on organizing this, you’re no cult leader, just a guy courageous enough to put his time into his vision and others follow. Hope VoltNation becomes an annual event.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:30 am

Snowboard, #22, they were adamant about K.I.S.S. It is really important to them to get the car right. I don’t remember hearing anything about a hybrid-diesel Volt. But if it is something they need to "invent", I doubt it will be as early as 2011.

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Mary Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:32 am

Did they mention holding additional Volt nation events around the country? LA would be great.

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Estero Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:42 am

Lyle wrote in a previous thread "It is clear that we are on to something here. The grassroots development of the site has become too large and loud for GM to ignore, so it seems we are now guests at their house. We are making a difference here, this type of direct access to regular folks like us to high level execs is unprecedented."

There is no question that is a fact! And, it none of that would have happened without the efforts of Lyle. We and the entire nation would Lyle a debt of gratitude! Keep up the good work!

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MetrologyFirst Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:44 am

Jon P:

I was there also and was very impressed with the GM folks. The discussions after the meeting were full of content. Your question was a good one. But I was really disappointed about a majority of the questions from the audience. Some of them were just horrible. I was really hoping for some more technically oriented questions. Not whether the ICE fully recharges the battery during driving. I guess I’m spoiled by the discussions here.

A few things that stuck out for me:

1. Lutz saying the Volt will have at least 50 mile range when new; 40 mi. at end of life cycle. Most of us have speculated on this but I think its the first time I’ve heard it stated so emphatically. I am actually expecting 60 miles when new.

2. Weber’s very strong and confident statements that when the Volt is released, there will be nothing else like it. Sort of like, "ignore what the other guys are claiming, we know they are full of it, and we are going to knock your socks off." His confidence was clear.

3. It is apparent that if anyone truely had questions if this car was going to make it, those should be gone now. The Volt WILL happen. These people seemed genuinely pumped up about where they are with it right now.

4. Lyle, you did a fantastic job. Unbelievable effort.

5. A gripe: there were a few people who seemed to be there to grind some axes. I heard the EV1 brought up by several people in several conversations. (I even heard someone ask why they destroyed them. What point was that making??) I heard people saying that other battery chemisties are better than what GM has chosen. I heard some folks ask questions that seemed to imply that GM was not genuine.

This bothered me a little. I don’t want the GM people to think we don’t support their approach to this car. Don’t get me wrong, overall the communication was great. It’s just that somwtimes those with an agenda seem to sort of dominate the discussions not allowing other questions to be asked. The GM folks did a great job sifting through the questions without becoming rattled. That has to be tough.

I don’t know if other had this experience. And maybe I’m stepping on some toes here as to who I’m speaking of. But this meeting was about gleaning info on the VOLT, nothing else IMO.
I know one thing, I can not wait to see this thing in my garage. Overall a great event.

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Ed Noble Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:10 am

If they are going to build a car like no other, why not include this generator…I understand it will run on almost any fuel….Ed Noblehttp://www.runonideas.com/newsletter/11200501/index.asp

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Grizzly Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:12 am

Metro #8

I sure hope that GM does promise less and deliver more. That 50 mile range has been speculated about on this site for quite some time and IIRC that’s not the first time Lutz has mentioned that. I’m going to keep 40 in my head and anything more will be a pleasant surprise.

WRT to the EV-1, it’s amazing just how many people watch a film and draw conclusions, like the conclusion that GM was the only one who crushed EVs. Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chrysler and Nissan all crushed theirs as well, but where do you ever hear that mentioned? All those companies’ risk assessment lawyers recommended the same thing and that’s what was done. These people have just got to put the past behind them.

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Dave B Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:12 am

Metrology @ 8,

Good points; especially about not blasting GM with their approach of openness.

Possibly a 50 mile range? Terrific! I also heard mention about some mules that were built. Can anyone confirm that were lucky enough to attend?

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Jon P. Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:22 am

They showed pictures of some of the 1st mules on the road during the presentation.
We didn’t actually see them, but assuming they weren’t lying, the mules are here.

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Jon P. Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:24 am

check out this article, my favorite part is the answer to the question "who will buy a plug in electric car"

you know wierdos who care about silly stuff like the enviroment, national security, and energy independence.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08080/866505-28.stm
It’s hard to say if this anti-electric propoganda or if this guy just dosen’t know anything but "fill her up".

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Jon P. Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:32 am

Why is it so easy to call a group of people all interested in the same thing a "cult".

It’s a damn car, i didn’t see one guy there that fit the "weirdo, eco cult crowd" description. I don’t know if you guys can tell from all my posts i’m a little fired up. Did i mention that ABCNews quoted a response Bob Lutz was giving to me, on a question i asked him.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:37 am

I also heard the EV-1 come up in conversation. This thing has been beaten to death. Let it go. It’s history and no one can change that. Let’s move forward and embrace the Volt. Let’s embrace it to the point where it can’t be crushed.

I walked away from VoltNation convince that GM is truly behind this technology.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:46 am

When does a cult become mainstream? I believe we are more mainstream.

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SteveF Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:52 am

I am excited to hear all the first Volt Nation details in the next day or so. I am located in Detroit area, so I am hoping the next Volt Nation meeting will be held in Detroit at the N.A. Auto Show in Jan 09. That will be about 1.5 year until production release. GM may be ready to show the full product design of of the Volt by then. Also maybe then show a fully functioning mule (based on Volt production design and not the initial modified old style Malibu’s). Time will tell. In addition, I wanted to thank Lyle for all your efforts and in really making a difference. Was cool to see your picture in the Detroit Free Press this morning.

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Grizzly Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:56 am

Rashiid,

You’ve got a real point that might explain why in 2008 we aren’t already driving electric cars.

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noel park Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:19 am

Many thanks to all for making this huge effort. My hat is off to you.

#15 Rashiid Amul:

Well said. We are the mainstream. they just don’t realize it.

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noel park Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:20 am

#15 Rashiid Amul:

Yet!

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BillR Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:21 am

#14 Jon P.

Sorry, I may have started this because in my letter to Bob Lutz I posed the question "Why is there such a cult following for this vehicle?"

Of course, thanks to the media, we always seem to associate "cult" with a negative connotation. My dictionary has one meaning of cult as "Extravagant devotion to a cause".

So, you be the judge.

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FlyingMonkey Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:23 am

Heck this is all fantastic – can’t wait!! And if they wanna call this a cult, then I’m drinking the cool-aid…

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thomdbhomb Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:24 am

Don’t let the "cult" label bother you too much. Modern usage of the word "cult" has diluted its meaning. You know that this is an intellectual (i.e., not religious) pursuit. The reason the Volt strikes a chord is because it is pragmatic on many levels. When the ignorant become educated, their labels will change. The Volt will speak for itself. I have "faith" that GM is not offering a religious idol for our worship. GM is developing a product to sate an identifed demand. We represent that demand. We are not a cult, in the strict sense of the word, and I am secure enough in my beliefs to let others say what they will. It won’t change what is already happening – the revolution in personal transportation.

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Schmeltz Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

To anyone who attended Volt Nation:

Was there any concern or mention whatsoever of either of the battery packs being pursued not being able to accomplish the original GM specification of 10 years / 150,000 mile battery life? I know from reading the posts this morning that it was mentioned that the daily range would be shortened depending on how much the Heater or AC was being used. That just made me wonder if living in an area with either high/low temp. extreme year round would diminish the long term durability of the battery as well?

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john1701a Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

>> Why is it so easy to call a group of people all interested in the same thing a "cult".

Don’t shot the messanger, but VOLT NATION is rather self-defeating by putting focus entirely on a single vehicle. Emphasis on the technology instead would help to avoid that.

Notice how the BAS and TWO-MODE hybrid types are marketed with reference to design, not by vehicle name.

Volt is following the history of Insight, generating a strong following of devoted supporters, but with no clear migration path to other vehicles using the same technology.

Again, don’t hold it against me for sharing those observations to attempt keeping the effort constructive.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

John1701a, #24.

I respectively disagree. I strongly believe the Volt technology will spread across the entire GM line. I think when we talk about the technology, it is in the hope. SUVs need this. So do the trucks. But for the moment, the Volt is the only one. So we talk about that. But the technology is what I am really interested in.

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Tim Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

John1701a (#24) - So Lyle should rename it "E-REV Nation" or "E-Flex Nation" so that it supports an entire class of vehicle instead of just one example?

Example: "Model-A Nation" vs "Automobile Nation"

Interesting idea.

Thoughts anyone?

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kent beuchert Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

I keep telling every blog that screws up Volt news that its readers need to come here for current and accurate information. The pop media is doing its usual crappy job at reporting technology and the internet is continuing in its tradition of being populated by 12 year old pimply-faced
junior conspiracy buffs who are skepical about everything except the bizarre and implausible. Believe it or not, but Consumer Reports even has a comment in a recent article that it hopes the Volt program "isn’t a sham." How does one explain dumb? I suppose you really can’t.

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MetrologyFirst Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

#24

I disagree. There is a clear path for the technology. A focus on the Volt, IMO is a vote for the E-flex chassis design. The Volt is just car #1. The Opal Flextreme, Caddy Provoq were all there at the show too. These are examples of the progression of the chassis.

This car will be game changing, that was and has been obvious to me. As far as I’m concerned, GM wants to take advantage of us through getting the word out. Most people still have no idea what the Volt is. i’m sure there are Prius clubs out there. I don’t see Toyota producing any other cars on the Prius chassis, or am I incorrect?

I could have spent hours talking technology with these folks. Weber was very impressive, Alex, the senior powertrain engineer; she absolutely knows her stuff. Very impressive also. I wish more technology was talked about Wednesday. But then again, There were a few questions asked that the reply was "I can’t talk about that."

I was very glad that was answer, to tell you the truth. GM doesn’t need to show all their cards to everybody.

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MetrologyFirst Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

A few other tidbits:

1. Alex said the battery will not have reduced performance if it is drained and charged twice a day.(good news for me with a 100 mile roundtrip commute). The battery models had this and other scenarios; there was no degradation.

2. A problem they are working on is how to address "old gas." If you never go beyond the 40 mile range, the ICE would never kick on; the gas in the tank would go bad. THey are working on algorithms that may have the ICE occasionally run to keep the components lubed and the gas from becoming stale. She also said the gas tank will be pressurized, as this will help keep the gas fresh longer.

I know there was more, I just went blank. I have to pull out my notes.

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AES Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

GCC is reporting from the event that 10 battery packs have been delivered.

TEN!

So enough for the mules, it seems.

Also 9 second 0-60. I’d like that to be a bit better, but maybe one could put in a different gear ratio to improve acceleration at the expense of top speed and AER.

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Bob Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

I was the one at the Volt Nation event who asked the question about pricing. On my follow-up I mentioned that their answer seemed to be "fence straddling". I just wanted to know if they planned to price the vehicle competitively and affordably for most people. The response seemed to be a resounding yes. They were well aware of the necessity to reach critical mass, which can only be done if the vehicle is priced right. The meeting was truly unprecedented with lots of information about the chemistry of the batteries and the complications of making it all work together.
Bob Lutz’s bold admission that GM made a mistake by not pursuing a "Prius" type vehicle was refreshing in this day and age of "politically correct" speech by all people including corporate executives. He said, GM will not make that mistake again and see the Volt as part of GM’s future success.

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Jon P. Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

#23 Schmeltz

Was there any concern or mention whatsoever of either of the battery packs being pursued not being able to accomplish the original GM specification of 10 years / 150,000 mile battery life? I know from reading the posts this morning that it was mentioned that the daily range would be shortened depending on how much the Heater or AC was being used. That just made me wonder if living in an area with either high/low temp. extreme year round would diminish the long term durability of the battery as well?

Honestly i talked to Launaker in detail about the 2 battery suppliers, and honestly i got the impression both of the batteries were coming in way beyond expectations. He further told me that we have nothing to worry about as far as LG’s ability to ramp up production, that they could probably build a 100,000 right now and have been making li-ion batteries in the millions for years. Now A123 he said didn’t have the production experience that lG-chem had but to quote him directly "if they have production problems we have a little experience with that, we built 9 million cars last year and we will help them thru that".

as far as the batteries lifespan, Lutz made reference to "50 miles in the begining, 40 towards the end" talking about the miles per charge during the batteries lifespan. Obviously until they get some experience with these batteries not just in cycle test, but in real world conditions it’s going to be hard for them to guarantee anything. I think that’s a big key in the build process. They probably want to give these Volts 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranties to stick with the "just like any other car" approach to the consumer, but if these batts are only going to last 7-8 years than they have a fiscal nightmare on their hands.

Also i did not get the impression that there was going to be signifigant ev range loss with the climate controls on. Actually to the contrary, minimal range loss.

#24 John1701a,

I disagree, the Volt is the only car offering this kind of powertrain, so of course its the car of choice. The entire e-flex line is the path of migration to other vehicles. Example, the cadillac provoq, the saturn flextreme, and more to come. Tesla is the car your talking about, it has no path, it has no product line, its just a manufacturer making 1 car, selling to a very small niche market.

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MetrologyFirst Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

Another one:

The car will have a small tradition braking system in addition to the regenerative system with all the standard features; ABS, etc.

The regen brakes are 99% efficient at the energy they recover. I get the impression that depending on how fast you want to stop, the standard brakes kick in as supplementary.

As far as servicing, you will still have brake pads to change, oil to change (the ICE is lubed), coolant to top off. I think she said the ICE coolant system will also include the battery coolant system. Don’t quote me there though.

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Estero Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

There is a common thread through all the comments made by those who attended the VoltNation Conference in New York. They are 99% positive! That is the most reasssuring!

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Estero Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

What has happened to nasaman? I had thought we might hear many things from him today!

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thomdbhomb Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

#24 John1701a

Thanks for the suggestion and the tone in which it was offered.

"VOLT NATION" is the opposite of self-defeating. By putting focus entirely on a single vehicle, we are building "buzz."

If you are a regular here, you know we support E-REVs in general. The Volt will herald the emergence of E-REVs. If another E-REV was imminent, I have no doubt Volt Nation would give it due attention and consideration. But, right now, we are enthusaistically supporting the leading chance for an E-REV; the Volt. If we made our focus more generic, the buzz wouldn’t be so loud.

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thomdbhomb Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

#24 John1701a

"VOLT NATION" is uniting. Look at the growth of the waiting list. Look at the press coverage and attention.
As awareness grows, the "cult" label will fade away.

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Kevin R Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

I come to this site daily to view the progress on the Volt. I doubt seriously that I would if it was just a general site discussing the new technology but little about the actual car that I want to purchase.

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noel park Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

#5 Rashiid Amul:

"adamant about K.I.S.S." - Excellent!

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noel park Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

#36 thomdbhomb:

Perfectly said. Every time I get ready to make a comment I find out that you guys have beaten me to it.

When the Volt gets into full production, maybe then we can revist the focus of the blog. I would love an e-flex small pickup or van to replace my S-10, but let’s not go there until the first vehicle is up and running.

You have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. "Focus like a laser beam", as Mr. Clinton used to say.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

Estero #35

The worst for us could have happened, as I said in a post yesterday, our Nasaman must have been kidnapped by GM for his technical advices.

Bob, #31

Simply, thanks for you update it clarifies the information we had until your comment;

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Jon P. Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

I think NASAMAN flew in to NYC from florida, i’m sure he either stayed an extra day, or has major jetlag. He was definitley there though. He spoke to Bob Lutz directly and even gave him something.

I remember thinking damn did he just give something to Lutz, what could he have offered to Lutz the rock star( i think it was a buisness card).

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

So Jon P. 42, I think the same as you but I could not be there.

Do you think Nasaman could have given Bob Lutz his special plans for the Volt, perhaps with him in command the range could be the moon ?

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N. Riley Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

I can’t wait to get one!

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

When I talked to Nasaman at the show, I THINK he said he’d given the group’s questions to Lyle to pass along or had done so himself, so meeting time would be saved. Re: kidnapping – a possinility, as "Bob" came bookended by men talking into their sleeves…

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Tagemet, I’m sorry to not have met you. I didn’t know who anyone was. We had name tags, but with our real names on them. Oh well, next time, we should all wear our blog names.

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

I could tell you what he gave Lutz, but then I’d have to kill you (g)

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Arch Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

Did anybody ask if the generator runs at a constant speed?

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

Arch,
Yes, they are working on determining what the best/most efficient speed is.

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noel park Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

#42 Jean-Charles Jacquemin:

Well I just hope it was GM and not Toyota or Mitsubishi!

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Arch Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

Tagamet

Then they are doing it backwards. You figure out the load then the speed and then you design the motor. A motor designed for a given load and speed can give you twice the milage of one designed for many loads and speeds.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

Arch, as I understand it, the motor isn’t new. It’s an off the shelf model that was design for variable RPMs. They just need to figure out what constant RPM to use.

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john1701a Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

>> I don’t see Toyota producing any other cars on the Prius chassis, or am I incorrect?

Chassis has nothing to do with it, though Echo was actually a child of the classic model Prius.

HSD, the hybrid technology within, is available on quite a few different vehicles now… hatchback, sedan, minivan, and SUV.

E-FLEX is what the focus beyond Volt will need to be, to break beyond the mindset of a specific vehicle. I’m simply suggesting to do that sooner, rather than later.

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

Arch,
Although they are working on a lot of things parallel to each other, it seems likely that they know that they have to communicate among the teams. In fact, they mentioned regular (weekly?) joint meetings of the teams.
I loved the part where Lutz said "And I told them "Don’t hide the problems, I want to know about them and I want them fixed. If it costs money, so be it. We need them fixed before it goes out the door.

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Arch Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

Rashiid

Thats what I was afraid of! I hope in the next go round they design an engine just for this purpose. Maybe they will at least change out the cam.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

Arch, their argument is this: GM doesn’t have time to reinvent everything for Volt 1.0. They will have more time for 2.0 and 3.0. Their concentration now is simply to get it working and get it out the door in perfect working order. They admit they can’t afford any screw ups and they don’t want any. So I would say wait for the new versions to be better designed and with
newer inventions. Perhaps the motor will be one of them. But I see the motor being phased out somewhere down the road. But probably not for 20 years or so (my guess) so there is time.

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MetrologyFirst Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

I also am concerned about the obsolescence of Volt 1.0 in the future, as I fully expect to be an early owner. Mostly in the areas of battery upgrades, software upgrades and such. It sounds like the next generation batteries may not necessarily plug into Volt 1.0 which is a little unfortunate. But, to look at the glass half full, as long as they offer replacement original batteries down the road, (probably at a significant cost reduction if there are newer, better designs), I would be more than happy to replace my Volt 1.0 battery with another 40mile battery in 8-10 years.

It’s not like Volt 1.0 will be looked down upon in the future.

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Mike756 Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

Does anyone know why Denise Gray wasn’t there? Is she still in charge of the batteries?

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

Does anyone know why Denise Gray wasn’t there? Is she still in charge of the batteries?

They had to leave someone behind to watch the batteries cycle….

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Tom Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

Okay, I’m sticking this here because it came up in a conversation I had at the session but it isn’t really on target. It relates to marketing targeting. Somebody said GM would do well to focus on people who commute to work by train. This might at first sound like an unlikely market, but these folks would potentially be all electric during the week, and might need extrended range for a weekend jaunt. Since I’m in that category I agreed. It’s the natural car for this market segment. I see BMWs, Lexus, and other expensive cards in the lot along with my ‘84 Camaro and other "station" cars. The Volt could be the new status car of 2010 and beyond! If GM is listening, I’ll even volunteer to run free test drives in my new Volt at my train station if you guys move me to the front of the queue.
–Tom
–Tom

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Lyle Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

They told me Denise couldn’t make it..it’s OK with me if she was back in Michigan getting the batteries ready.

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Thom Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

See this link for my pictures from the show. I took pictures of some of the images in the slide show including a zoom in of the clay model of the new body style in #27. Feel free to add comments to the pictures on what you remember being described. Would love it if someone can put in comments of everyone in picture 22 from left to right.

http://picasaweb.google.com/tlellenb

NASAMAN in 24 & 26.

Lyle shaking Bob Lutz’s hand in 23.

Picture of Test Harness for Battery Packs in 13.

Picture of Mules in 16 & 17

Picture of Design Studio in 18 with attempts to zoom in on that model in 19-21 and further attempts to zoom in with a photo editor in 27.

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

I THINK my pictures can be seen here:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v95/Tagamet/VOLTNATION/
All the ablums are public access, so if you like flowers fell free to browse.
Lyle, if you want to link to any, there’s an easy way at this site (Photobucket)

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Arch Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:57 pm

I would like to thank all of you who went to Volt Nation for sharing what you saw. I enjoyed it. The one thing that makes me sad is to here that GM is going to pull an engine off the shelf to drive the generator. Its not that big of a deal to make that engine match the load it will be working under. Thats where GM has lost out to Honda and Toyota. They do not take care of the small stuff that makes a BIG difference. JMHO

Take Care
Arch

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Tagamet Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

Arch,
Why are you assuming that there isn’t a genset motor that DOES match?

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Arch Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:50 pm

Tagmet

I am only going on what I have been told. I have been told that it is an older off the shelf multispeed engine. If you want
maxium mileage you have to match the engine to the RPMS
and load. Not find the most efficent RPM range of a multispeed engine. Design the engine for the load and RPMs
you need. You can double the mileage this way. JMHO

Take Care
Arch

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Swimdad623 Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

49Arch

Did anybody ask if the generator runs at a constant speed?

I had a long conversation with one of the engineers on this. While the IC engine would have an optimal speed where it would be most efficient, it doesn’t work this way under all circumstances. He said that it looked like there would be 2-3 optimal speeds, which would depend on things like engine temperature and battery drain. This is one of the details that they’re still working on.

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Arch Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

Thats a bunch of BS

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Koz Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

AES, there was some inconsistancy with acceleration. I believe it was Frank Weber that stated 9 seconds 0-60MPH and later Bob Lutz mentioned 7 seconds. Bob motioned to Frank to verify and Farnk shook his head yes, so perhaps the 9 was a mistake. IMO 7 seems fast for the motor specs they’ve given, but it’s too early to say.

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Tagamet Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:05 am

"Thats a bunch of BS" – Arch

Arch, you may be the best engineer on the planet, but how could you know this when you CAN’T know all the variables that the GM team is juggling? The BS quotient at that meeting was remarkable low (trust me, I’m a shrink who’s fairly well atuned to BS)

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Tagamet Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:09 am

Hey Lyle, I just noticed that the website didn’t recognize the Daylight Savings time change. Don’t sweat the small stuff though. It’ll just change again in 6 months (g).
That was quite a "happening" on Wednesday. THANKS AGAIN!

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MLRTYME Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:20 am

It would make sense to have a system that was capable of working at more than just a single speed, for differing variables. I know that when we run engines on the dyno, we are consistently working to find the highest volumetric efficiency to produce maximum output. When the engine temperature varies, so does the optimal RPM range, as shown by the readings printed out after a pull. We have also seen engines show output increases at a different RPM range when we place different loads on them (add a stage to the dry-sump system, run a magnetic pick-up distributor vs. a crank trigger system, etc…). Having seen numerical figures specifically identify that changes in the system state causing fluctuation in optimum RPM for max % volumetric efficiency and/or maximum output capabilities, I can easily see why the engineers would need to allow for flexibility in the system. By creating options for the system to determine which RPM is most desired for the given generator’s output capabilities, I see the ability for the system to optimize fuel economy.

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nasaman Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 10:42 am

35 Estero….

After everyone else had left Volt Nation, a couple of us (our Thom, also a "technoweenie" & myself) stayed over until much later that night to "chew the rag", visit a few other displays like Nissan’s & Saturn’s & get some pictures. Thom then graciously drove me back to my hotel (it was raining steadily) and all he got in return was the worn-out excuse of an umbrella that’s lived in my briefcase for 10 yrs, forgotten in his car! Thanks a million Thom –toss that piece of s**t umbrella out, as Lutz might say it!!!

Then at the last minute I decided to stay over another day (my daughter, her husband & my two precious grandkids of theirs live in Cold Spring NY & he works in NYC). Sooo, paraphasing Mark Twain, my abduction by aliens ….uhh, I meant by GM ….has been greatly exaggerated!

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nasaman Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:02 am

46 Tagamet…..

You said, "When I talked to Nasaman at the show, I THINK he said he’d given the group’s questions to Lyle to pass along or had done so himself, so meeting time would be saved…."

You’re right, Tagamet. I decided not to single out any of the many questions (some frankly trivial, many important) that I culled from this site to ask during the meeting, but instead to give Bob Lutz a folder (of 15 copies) directly —enough copies to pass along to key Volt team members if he so choses. I’m still debating whether to post these questions here because I don’t want to start a firestorm of discussion along the lines of "why wasn’t THIS question included instead of THAT one?" ….I’ll first send our tireless leader Lyle a copy of these questions by PM & give him time to offer his wise advise this.

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nasaman Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:18 am

BTW, regarding Lyle, I’ll be bold enough to retell a couple of things I learned from his lovely & very dedicated wife (dedicated to the Volt, that is ….her jury might still be out on Lyle ). I always prefer asking forgiveness rather than permission, so here it is…..

The night BEFORE Volt Nation, Lyle was presented an award for breakthrough work in his "day job" at one of the hospitals he uses in his practice of Neurology. She said the thing seemed to weigh about 20 lbs!

She added, they have a 6-yr old son who’s already started his own blog (I wonder how long it’ll be before Lyle’s asking his son, as well as his wife, for help with gm-volt.com!)

I was impressed by this "inside information" …..aren’t you?

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omegaman66 Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:56 am

On the cult thing. I am as far away from a tree hugger as you can get and I am here. Why? Not because I want to save the enviroment but because I recognize the Volt E-REV is the wave of the future. I want a E-REV because it is so much cheaper to drive than a gas powered car or truck… I want one because they should be more dependable and last longer… I want one because eventually they should be cheaper than a ICE car or truck.

As I have said I am no tree hugger in the traditional sense of the word but that doesn’t mean I WANT to destroy the enviroment… nobody WANTS to destroy the enviroment.

Cost effiecient technology is the only technology that is going to be used enough to "Save the Plantet". And I see this is the way to go! Wind and solar are getting closer to powering this country AS THE COST comes down.

I have to laugh when I see articles stating that wind OR solar could power 20% of our power needs ultimately. What a joke. If solar covering a roof can power an entire of grid home that means potentially all homes could go off grid.

But I digress… the point is that anyone that thing the groundswell of support and interest in the Volt is by a small group of tree huggers they are just plain wrong. This die hard hunting and fishing, boat towing, conservative is dying for this type of technology to sweep the auto industry.

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George K Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 4:41 pm

My thanks to Lyle for making this historic event happen! It was also great meeting nasaman, tagamet, reshiid, and others, as well as the GM people!

One tidbit I got was from Tim (don’t remember last name) words directly for Bob Boniface. He said that the inside and outside design were almost frozen. He also said the size will be larger than the current Cobalt and that the car sits higher than the show car, and the trunk is larger.

Tagamet #64, thanks for the photos Thats me # 27 and 28 asking the question about the volt roll out.
I’m on a library computer and about to get kicked off.

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Koz Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:04 pm

Nasaman, perhaps Lyle can extract GM’s responses to the questions in your folder. This way only the questions with answers need only be posted and thus GM is setup as the fall guy for not answering the questions that didn’t make your cut.

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