Grab our RSS Feed

AND

Error in Motor Trend Magazine’s Plug-in VUE Advertisement Section

March 16th, 2008 | Posted in: Advertising, PHEV

One of our readers pointed out an ad the other day in the April edition of Motor Trend in which the Saturn VUE plug-in, slated for production in 2010 is described as having a 34 mile all-electric range. That news certainly got that reader excited, and potentially many others.

This information although exiting did not match with what the vehicle’s chief engineer Bob Reuter told me in Detroit. There he noted the car could go 10 miles all electric, but that it was a blended 2-mode hybrid design, and would only intermittently run on EV only, lending overall to a roughly 50% improvement in mpg over the current VUE XR line. This is not an E-REV, it is a 2-mode hybrid with a large plug-in electric battery.

Seeking clarification from GM on the ad, spokesman Brain Corbett advised me of the following:

“We’ve officially said more than 10 miles.”

and

“The writer mistakenly used the figure for the all-electric range of the Flextreme concept that was introduced along side of the plug-in Vue.”

Posted by: Lyle

50 Responses to “Error in Motor Trend Magazine’s Plug-in VUE Advertisement Section”

NZDavid Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 5:02 am

Ouch, poor nasaman. If the EV range had been 34 miles, I would have been sorely temped over the Volt.

(Quote)
mmcc Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 5:23 am

Me too!

(Quote)
BillR Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 6:05 am

For this very reason, I don’t believe everything that is printed in the media, online interviews by people other than Lyle, or other outlet information such as television.

Just as we can have a letdown regarding the AER of the Saturn, we also can sometimes have an uplift when we discover that some journalist who paints a gloomy picture for the Volt actually mis-quoted a GM spokesperson.

Therefore, it can go both ways, and I think it is key not to get too emotional over some of the reports that are issued by the media, regardless of whether they are positive or negative.

(Quote)
Sentinel Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 6:47 am

If it got a 20 mile all EV range AND had a 4-wheel drive system I could turn on or off at will it would probably sway me away from the Volt. My 4×4 Tacoma has came in VERY handy this winter too many times.

(Quote)
Van Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 7:36 am

Assuming the claimed AER of 10 miles (or equivalent AER) uses the same 5 miles per KWH non-real world expectation, then the battery uses 2 KWH in the charge depleting mode. And if that is 50% of the capacity, then the large A123/Cobasy pack would seem to be about 4KWH. And if the cost is $750/KWH, then the battery will add about $3000 to the price of the Vue. And that sure looks absolutely great to me for the first PHEV!!

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 8:34 am

1 NZDavid, 2 mmcc, 4Sentinel…..

First, thanks very much for your trouble in getting an official response from GM to this 34 mile AER ad for the 2010 Vue, Lyle!
…..And thank you, David, mmcc & Sentinel for expressing your interest in the Vue IF ITS AER COULD BE INCREASED.

Now, I want to explain briefly that this provocative subject got its start ~3 months ago with the Cadillac Provoq (pun intended) concept, identical in size & shape to the Saturn Vue ….and which GM billed as capable of 20 miles AER on a 9KWh battery. I’ll explain the details in a post here later, but for now please suspend your disbelief (if any) and play along with me in the assumption that the Volt’s 16KWh battery could extend the plug-in Vue’s AER to ~35 miles…..

As posters 1, 2 & 4 here have already commented, I want to know who else might be more interested in the Vue if in fact its AER could be extended from 10 to 35 miles as an added-cost option? Please simply say "Yes, I’d be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER" or "No, I wouldn’t……."

PS: I’ll be going to NYC this week & hope to continue this subject with GM there; your comments will be very helpful!

(Quote)
statik Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 8:37 am

There is no way the Saturn Vue Plug-In will only add 3k. Thats like taking a Cobalt and saying the battery pack will cost 7-10k so the Volt will be around 20k.

The current hybrid (with very limited production) is already 3k more expensive. I would say best, best, best case is you can order one for 29,900…probably more like 33,000…because GM like to bundle up useless stuff, so people have to pay more for what they want…then put a fancy name on it like…”Green Line”

The last caveat is availability, there won’t be any…so you go to the dealer and pay what he tells you. Today, if you buy a regular Saturn, you go to the dealership and then beat him down a couple thousand.

Even now you get $1,000 of MSRP before you even start…but guess what…in the teeny tiny fine print it says, “Offer excludes VUE Green Line Hybrid”

Difference will be minimum 10K, and I think that is being very, very optimistic.

(Quote)
Van Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 8:58 am

If I gave the impression I thought the PHEV would only cost $3000 more than a non-hybrid view, I certainly did not express myself very well. Given a hybrid Vue is already on the market, the idea is the battery alone, not counting the charger and charge control equipment would add $3000 to the hybrid price.

For example say that MSRP for a hybrid Vue is about $25,000. Then the PHEV version would be expected to cost more than $3000 more or around $30,000.

(Quote)
kent beuchert Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 9:26 am

Just another example of expecting journalists to know something about technogy. This is why the popular media is a useless source of information about anything scientific or technical. I’d like a nickle for every time there has been a
media broadcast or headline promising an imminently available cure for cancer.

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am

There is still a little bit of confusion at play.

BAS is the hybrid technology currently available for Vue. It is the "assist" design type. There is 1 small electric motor and the engine must always be in motion when the vehicle is moving.

TWO-MODE is the hybrid technology coming later for Vue. It will be the "full" design type, the one capable of supporting a plug. There are 2 large electric motors and multiple PSDs (Power Split Device) allowing the engine to stop while driving.

(Quote)
Jeff J Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 11:15 am

#6 nasaman , I would be very interested if the VUE got 34 mile range in EV mode , I have a young child & a business that I am always running parts plus I tow a small trailer 3 to 4 times a month . If the wifey takes the sport trac to work with her , always 5 things pop up where I need that pickup bed. BTW nasaman nobody can blame you for getting excited over a reporter that made a honest mistake. No harm No Foul.

(Quote)
Thomdbhom Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 11:15 am

#6 nasaman

Yes, I’d be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER

I want an affordable car with at least four seats and a decent all electric range. 35 miles AER works for me. Extra room works for me.

(Quote)
Rashiid Amul Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 11:50 am

Nasaman #6. "Yes, I’d be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER"

Once again the press strikes again.
Honest mistake? Sometimes I wonder.
They make so many, that it seems they are just too lazy and unprofessional to check their facts and proof read. Lyle has way more credibility than the main stream press has.

(Quote)
Rooster Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Yes, I would be interested…

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Thanks so much for your responses to my question guys! (The question is, "Would you be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER?")

BTW, the page from Motor Trend at the top is NOT written by the press or a blogger —it’s a GM advertisement that was written & approved by GM marketing! (But they make mistakes too, as we see here.)

PS: Here’s an excellent article with photos of the VUE (which the plug-in version is based on) that was designed by GM in Germany (Opel) and has enjoyed huge sales success in Europe since its introduction):

http://www.uberauto.com/news/opel/opel_antara_-_elegant_4wd_crossover_2006080242.html

(Quote)
Koz Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Nasaman,
Yes, I would be interested in an extended range plug-in view.
Provoq would have even more interest for me.

(Quote)
Dave B Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Folks, that’s why you get your information from more than one source. Always.

(Quote)
Joshua Hazelton Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

at #6 nasmanme too that would be sweet. A little more room for the dog and kid.

(Quote)
bruce g Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

"Yes, I’d be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER"

Of course I would. This technology has to be massed produced and the faster the better.

(Quote)
Jim I Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

nasaman:

From your post, I thought you meant the ad was a direct ad placed by GM for the Vue. Now I understand that is was just an article written by another hack "journalist" to fill up 1000 words for an advertising supplement.

Now with more accurate information, the pieces of that puzzle fit perfectly.

I apologize if my prior post seemed to come down on you. That was never my intent…..

And I can’t wait to hear what you and Tag and everyone else that is luck enough to go to NY has to say!

(Quote)
Brett Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Folks,
I bought a Saturn Vue last week and I love it!!! Of course, I could not get the Green Line (which I would have bought, even though it is currently a mild BAS hybrid), but everything about my XR model is fantastic except for the gas mileage. It is a very good bet that I will be trading my current Vue in for the PHEV version in 2012 (when my extended warranty runs out).

So, Nasaman, I will jump for joy if and when the Vue gets 35 mi AER. And, as much as I love the Volt, I would take a 35 mi AER Vue over a 40 mile AER Volt any day as my only car (assuming similar price).

I learned about the future PHEV Vue from discussion on this site, and found out that it currently stack up very well against competitors. In NYC, please tell the folks at GM that people are buying their gas burning cars now (over competitors) because of their promise of gas free cars in the future. This is why they are already advertising the Volt! The gas-friendly to gas-free campaign worked on me (albeit in a backward way… I should really be crediting Lyle and the posters on this site).

(Quote)
Tagamet Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

And I can’t wait to hear what you and Tag and everyone else that is luck enough to go to NY has to say!

ME TOO!

(Quote)
Jim F. Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

#6 nasaman

Yes, I’m interested in PHEV Vue. I have been following the Vue PR as well as the Volt comments. The two-mode Vue is due out the last part of this year and it has not been priced yet. Based on the cost differential of the Tahoe hybrid over the standard Tahoe, I suspect the two-mode Vue hybrid to be about $30K. When the PHEV Vue arrives with the larger battery, add another $3-5K to the price.

I sure li-ion batteries ramp up in production and go down in price!

(Quote)
George K Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

"No, I wouldn’t be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER"

Nasaman, I am waiting for the Volt!

By the way, how do you turn off "Bold"?

(Quote)
George K Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

No, I wouldn’t…

I am waiting for the Volt!

See you in New York!

(Quote)
Thomdbhom Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

#6 nasaman

Instead of a head count, why not point out that many Americans have demonstrated a willingness to forgo a sedan’s efficiency for an SUV’s versatility? I’m certain that mindset will continue in the Volt-Age.

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

20 Jim I….

Sorry, guys I need to repeat that the Saturn ad at the top of this topic is a GM advertisement that was written & approved by GM marketing!

(Quote)
Grizzly Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

It would’ve been nice if true, but the math for the 34mi SUV just doesn’t work at this time, or at least not 2010-11.   The reason is that the two biggest hurdles to AER right now aside from accessory draw are weight and aero.   WRT the latter two, the Vue has a sizable disadvantage in both, particularly aero.
Without any complicated formulas, how on earth with a SMALLER Li-ion batt is the Vue to deliver only about 6 less miles AER than the lighter and much more aero Volt?   Obviously it won’t.

The best part is that we’re on the right track. Or..I should say that GM is.   It’s just a matter of time.

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

OK guys….. here’s the more detailed post I promised earlier that summarizes the numerous posts I’ve made thru GM Fastlane & GM Next (on Bob Lutz’ & Larry Burn’s threads). I also telephoned Saturn’s General Manager (Jill Lajdjiak), who asked me to fax this question directly to her office at GM headquarters. The following is primarily an excerpt from my January fax…..

"The Cadillac Provoq concept just revealed at the ‘08 Detroit Auto Show this week is virtually identical in size (180.3″L x 67″H x 72.8″W) to the plug-in VUE also just announced. And my careful study of a detailed cutaway of the Provoq concept at….
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/detroit-2008-cadillac-provoq-fuel-cell-concept/560979/

….reminded me the Provoq has two HUGE hydrogen tanks under/behind the rear seats that the plug-in VUE will not have. The Provoq uses a 9KWh Lithium Ion battery pack under the center tunnel that GM claims will give it a battery-only range of 20 Miles (i.e., without help from the Provoq fuel cell). This tells me there should be ample space for Saturn to up-size the VUE battery to AT LEAST the Chevy Volt’s 16KWh pack by adding a "T" section under the rear seats (as the VOLT does) which should give the plug-in VUE…

Plug-in VUE max range = 16KWh / 9KWh x 20mi = ~35 mi/charge (not 10)!
.…So I’m wondering whether Saturn is deliberately down-playing the plug-in VUE’s battery-only range for marketing purposes or some other reason, or if you’re simply planning to keep the VUE’s cost down by using a smaller battery. I’m sure there are many thousands like me that would love to own a CUV like the plug-in VUE, even at a considerably higher cost .…IF IT GOT MORE LIKE 30-35 (instead of 10) MILES/CHARGE!

So why not offer an added-cost option for the plug-in Vue that makes use of the Chevy Volt’s 16KWh battery & the ample space available in the Vue ….a plug-in Vue CUV that’s capable of 30-35 miles/charge?

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

PS: The above question is one I’m going to ask again in NYC this Wednesday, so once again, please help me out by answering the following question in this thread….

"Would you be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER?"

(Quote)
Mike756 Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

Yes, I would be interested.

(Quote)
James Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 9:08 pm

In addition to the weight and CD losses that the Vue has as opposed to the Volt, it’s important not to forget that as a hybrid it also has a transmission that contributes to even more losses. So I doubt this is as simple as stated.

That 16Kw/h batt has been trimmed CONSIDERABLY. Grizzly is correct.

(Quote)
Mark Bartosik Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:37 pm

"Yes, I’d be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER"

(Quote)
NZDavid Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 3:08 am

Nasaman, as much as I want the Volt, I have to admit a 35 mile AER Vue would be more suited to my needs. At 10 miles AER I will stay with the Volt and hire a trailer as needed.

I have two questions for the meeting if you would be so kind.
1. At what stage would the Volt change from Concept to Pre Production, and, if possible, when?
2. Will the Volt be designed so aftermarket battery extenders (like Hymotions) can be fitted easily?

Kind Regards

(Quote)
Jon P. Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 9:54 am

Wow all the specualting we’ve been doing (very logicaly i might ad).
In 2 days we’ll be "hearing it from the horses mouth", is Lutz gonna be there?

(Quote)
doggydogworld Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 11:09 am

Yes I’d be interested. Don’t get your hopes up, though, this would be too expensive for Saturn which is GM’s entry level marque.

(Quote)
Thompsonite Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 11:50 am

#6 Nasaman

YES!!!

That would be a much better fit for my requirements. I currently drive a 2003 Matrix that I love but I want a reasonable electric only driving range. Living in Manitoba we pay only $0.05/kWhr that is generated by about 95% hydroelectric. My next requirement to replace my wife’s vechicle is something that is capable of pulling a 4-horse trailer that has a reasonable electric range.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

#27 Grizzly:
#31 James:

Well, as usual, you guys beat me to it. The thing weighs what, 4500 pounds? It has the aerodynamics of a brick. It is not going to do 34 miles on battery alone. Alas, the laws of physics havd not yet been repealed.

(Quote)
David L Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Yes, I’d be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER …

(Quote)
David L Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

#35 Thomsonite wrote:

I currently drive a 2003 Matrix that I love but I want a reasonable electric only driving range. Living in Manitoba we pay only $0.05/kWhr that is generated by about 95% hydroelectric.

Lucky you! In BC, were’re paying just over $0.06/KWhr and we are only about 90% hydro. Similarly, I’ll be looking for a second vehicle to add to our 2005 Suzuki Aerio (very similar to you Matrix). We have two kids … if we have a third, we are going to need a bigger vehicle – like a plug-in Saturn!

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

27 Grizzly, 31 James, 36 Noel Park…..

What I failed to explain here is that GM’s own electric drive team (at least some of the same guys working on the Volt, I’m led to believe) –NOT ME– calculated that the Caddy Provoq concept announced in January (well after the Volt’s wind tunnel testing was completed), and with the same size & shape as the Vue (but with louvers in the grill that close at higher speeds to reduce drag) would be capable of a 20 mile AER using a 9KWh Lithium Ion battery under the center console. The plug-in Vue could also use these same Provoq-like inexpensive louvers (which can be actuated automatically by car speed) to achieve the same reduced drag as the Provoq.

Also, remember that GM told us last year their testing/analysis/etc had led them to conclude that drag is more important than weight for electrically-driven cars, which is not the case for ICE-powered cars. This is largely a consequence of the fact that, irrespective of the mass of a vehicle, a substantial fraction of the electrical energy needed to reach road speed from a stop (or to simply accelerate) is recovered by the regenerative braking system & by other efficiency-enhancing systems they’re able to use for any electric drive. How else can you explain GM engineering’s calculated AER of 20 miles for the Caddy Provoq with a 9KWh battery!?!

So once again I need to ask everyone, assuming GM’s own calculations are correct, "Would you be interested in the plug-in Vue if it had an added-cost option for up to 35 miles AER?"

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

PS: Please remember that the Volt’s 40 mile AER range with its 16KWh battery is also calculated by GM engineering, not based on mule on other road testing —and that we’ve been led to believe the plug-in Saturn Vue has already started doing some road testing (the "mule" vehicles are the same as the 2008 Vue, so they already exist). So don’t dismiss this added-cost plug-in Vue option for a larger battery to achieve 30-35 miles AER too quickly, folks!

(Quote)
glenn Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

#6 nasaman

yes, i would buy a 35 mile aer vue over a 40 mile aer volt

(Quote)
David Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

Simple criteria… I want to burn zero gas on my daily commute. Hence, anything less than 26 miles pure electric won’t even get a glance from me. Also, an ICE vehicle with electrical assist loses in my opinion, all electric with electric motors is my next car.

(Quote)
nasaman Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:15 am

As designed, the Plug-in Vue should need only minor changes to its control algorithms (and the Volt’s battery technology to upsize the battery) to function exactly like an E-REV —hey, GM is already claiming it will have a 10 mile EV-only range!

The architecture is admittedly somewhat less efficient than the Volt’s series design, but that won’t prevent the car from functioning like plug-in Prius conversions do —or even like the Volt!

(Quote)
Jeffrey Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

#38 Noel, The Toyota RAV4 EV got 80+ miles on that huge battery it had in there – but I agree that the same battery (16kwh) shouldn’t give 40 miles in the the Volt AND 34 in the Vue – either more range in the first, or less in the latter…

Nasaman, not only would I buy a 34 mile Vue, I’d consider it at 25-30 miles, as that would cover 75% of my trips with that vehicle… and that seems more realistic than the 34 mile range! Of course, we’re hoping to make the Volt my daily commuter (about 50 miles a day) and longer range weekend choice, with the Vue my wife’s daily driver, so that would just make things that much more attractive for us!

(Quote)
noel park Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:48 pm

#46 Jeffrey:
If the market wants a 34 mile electric range Vue, and that helps GM to become a viable and survivable company, who am I to argue?

I am just afraid that, when enough battery capacity is hung on it, it will become so heavy and expensive that it won’t work financially. I mean, how many hybrid Tahoes do you think they are really going to sell at $53,000?

My biggest concern is that they will take their eye off the prize of the Volt. I hope that it will be as light and aerodynamically efficient as it needs to be to really make a world altering statement about fuel economy.

I fell in love with the Honda Insight. Clearly, Honda pulled out all of the stops to make the first hybrid statement. 1850 lb, all aluminum, with a no compromise aero package. I would have bought one, but my wife wouldn’t have such a small car. If it had been a GM product, I would have bought one anyway for my business driving. Clearly Toyota , and now GM, are a lot smarter from a marketing point of view to go with a 4 seater, but man the Insight was an engineering tour de force.

I only hope that the Volt will make a profoundly powerful statement, and allow US manufacturers to reclaim the technological high ground forever.

Bob Lutz seems to have acknowledged the absolute necessity of doing this. I only hope that he can make it so.

(Quote)
Tejera Says:
September 27th, 2008 at 10:35 am

Mr. Lutz or Burns Is there anyway that someone at R&D could contact me to talk about this great technology that i have been working on for the volt or other EV. It could help boost the Volts all electric distance from 40 miles to about 60-80 miles. It is done at relatively slow speeds from 20 mph. At 20 mph the batteries are already being charged. Is there anyway that anyone at R&D could contact me so that this technology can be discussed. This is done with items already on the market so it will make it relatively cheap to implement per vehicle. I estimated about $400 to $800 per vehicle. This is not a joke and no im not a tech looney either. But please have someone contact me via email or by phone. Thanks.

(Quote)
sImmemnAdverge Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 7:48 am

jewelry tanzanite sets yellow gold drops
http://usuarios.lycos.es/eljbj/christmasbe9.html christmas gammon recipes nigella lawson
http://utenti.lycos.it/ghjww/christmas79d.html new year latin america
gsa cc dollar
wrestling shoes blk gold
http://members.lycos.co.uk/kznwyroh/christmasd92.html everett ma sterling silver buyers
http://membres.lycos.fr/uypvhwfa/christmas34f.html macau casino showgirls
http://membres.lycos.fr/zjexn/christmas033.html sing christmas carols

(Quote)
jImmemnAdverge Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

http://members.lycos.nl/ownop/christmas9b0.html disney orlando new years eve attendance
http://membres.lycos.fr/flirek/black-ru5d/map.html chocolate christmas advent calendar
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bwebrkh/christmasaea.html rens christmas coloring
pagan christmas cards
http://membres.lycos.fr/wafgj/christmasfdf.html knitting patterns christmas stockings
http://utenti.lycos.it/idgfqdqs/gamblingdf/map.html citytv new years bash
nude men birthday card
cultured diamond manufacturers

(Quote)

Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts

Ayn Rand rising ... November 3, 2009
Ayn Rand rising: _Link_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/books/review/Kirsch-t.html) Rand, Malthus and even Nietzsche are being rediscovered,... […]
Jason M. Hendler
Sales Rise at G.M. and Ford, but Fall at Chrysler November 3, 2009
Sales Rise at G.M. and Ford, but Fall at Chrysler _Link_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/business/04auto.html) […]
Jason M. Hendler
Patented: Generator-powered car 100-150 mpg. November 3, 2009
Our patent office has screwed up of course! We've been yakking about GM's generator concept but this has slipped through the patent office. I think... […]
rhodomel
Berkshire to buy Burlington Northern Santa Fe for $34B November 3, 2009
Berkshire to buy Burlington Northern Santa Fe for $34B: _Link_... […]
Jason M. Hendler
CNT battery November 2, 2009
In two weeks Micro Bubble Technologies will debut for the world the CNT battery. This is battery that based on their claims will more than double the... […]
Desertstraw
Waiting Lists for Th!nk, Aptera and Fisker November 2, 2009
Waiting Lists for Th!nk, Aptera and Fisker: _Link_ (http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/2300-people-on-waiting-list-for-think-city/) Aptera... […]
Jason M. Hendler
Helix Wind`s S594 Turbine Withstands 80mph Storm in Alaska November 2, 2009
Helix Wind`s S594 Turbine Withstands 80mph Storm in Alaska _Link_ (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS113756+27-Oct-2009+BW20091027) […]
Jason M. Hendler

Error in Motor Trend Magazine’s Plug-in VUE Advertisement Section

50 Responses to “Error in Motor Trend Magazine’s Plug-in VUE Advertisement Section”

Leave a Reply

Recent Posts

Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts