Lutz: Volt Prototype Road Tests Bumped to July

32 Responses to “Lutz: Volt Prototype Road Tests Bumped to July”

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   Grizzly Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 12:17 am

   Every little slip in the schedule is making 2010 look closer and closer.  
   
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   Thomdbhom Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 12:19 am

   I’d hate to be person who caused the delay.   
   
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   Spin Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 1:23 am

   I’m still looking forward to driving my 2012 Chevy Volt  
   
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   Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 2:11 am

   To me this statement makes sense and, maybe paradoxically, confirms the seriousness of GM involvement in the Volt.  
   
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   Ausmartin Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 2:17 am

   mmm too many delays and us here in Australia might be driving a Mitsubishi Imev before we ever see a Volt or one based on it’s chassi.
   The only thing holding it up is the battery issue.
   Eg.
   Electic AC motor – Done Proven
   Electric Cars & Accessories - Done Proven
   Electric Generator – Hey even the Chinese can build these!
   Electric Car Dealer training – Done EASY -Even Toyota sells the Prius world wide, so their are electrical precautions.
   Big deal… for anyone with half a brain.

   Just get those batteries verified / improved and get some massive production of these going or others may pass GM by and that would sad.
   Enough said.  
   
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   NZDavid Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 2:51 am

   I wonder when the Volt will move from concept to pre production.  
   
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   mmcc Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 4:16 am

   I want pictures and a model of the actual car, not the concept.  
   
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   Jack Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 6:18 am

   Why is so much expected from GM? Toyota keeps everything  secret, but that seems  ok for the rest of the world.  
   
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   Jim I Says:
   March 14th, 2008 at 6:50 am

   Jack #8:

   Because GM said they would be open on the development of this vehicle, and Mr. Lutz made very public and grandiose statements such as "Mules on the road by Easter, 2008" and "60,000 Volts for sale before the end of 2010" and "the Volt will be nicely equipped for well under $30,000".  When someone this high up the chain of command at GM says these things, you would like to be able to believe him.

   But now we hear July for the mules, 10,000 Volts for the first year’s production, only available in 5 cities, and priced at up to $40,000.  I think that makes people want to ask for some definitive information that can be depended upon for accuracy.

   And my question about the battery pack is:  If GM is having a problem with getting them to work for a 40 mile AER for the Volt, then how can Mitsubishi say they will have a 100 mile BEV ready for 2009, using a L-Ion battery pack?  They have to be able to get them from somewhere, and they must think they work, right?  So why do the execs at GM keep saying that production capacity and capability of the battery pack is still a problem?

   Don’t get me wrong, I am still a believer, and I think that the E-REV is the rght way to go, but I do not understand the inconsistancies in these statements.

   And I REALLY hope that the production Volt does not end up looking like the Mitsubishi or the Prius, which to me, are just not attractive at all.  
   
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    Van Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 7:20 am

    All this info is completely consistent with the 3 month slip in the arrival of the A123/Conti pack.  This pushed everything back.  And it looks to me that all the mules shown to the public will be equipped with only one vendor’s pack, not two.  Time will tell.  
    
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    statik Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 7:32 am

    It’s a bittersweet day.

    On one hand, I feel sort of vindicated for the hurricane of trouble I have received over the past year for saying how  unreasonable all of GM goals were.  and all my /Easter is coming posts, lol

    On the other other hand, I really didn’t set out to be the ‘badboy of doom and gloom’ on the boards, I really want one…and would have been happy to be wrong if that meant a shiney Volt in my driveway.

    I think if we adjust our expectations to hopefully getting a Volt in 2012 we will be a much happier group in the long run.

    /cheers to better news in the future  
    
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    Dave B Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 7:50 am

    2012 far too long to be paying $4 + gas in this country.  I can wait to 2010, but beyond that is a stretch. 

    Tesla is officially in production in 3 days, Li-ion packs and all, on a shoestring budget.  I’d rather GM roll the dice in a make-or-break fashion, a page out of Tesla’s play book. 

    By 2012, BEVs will be all over the place and GM will have serious competition from numerous manufacturers.  
    
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    Eco Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 8:06 am

    I’m giving up on the Volt, but not for the reasons that have to do with the car itself.  I’m glad it will be produced, it will make a great contribution to the advancement of transportation.  But in the end, it’s still an automobile, the worst financial investment a person can make.   When GM can make an e-rev for less than 75 percent of the median family income for a year, I’ll be interested.  
    
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    Schmeltz Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 8:18 am

    There’s no contest in my mind about this….I would much rather be patient for a while longer, and have the finished product right, vs. a rushed to market piece of junk.  The consequences of getting the equipment wrong are far, far more disastrous than any delay will ever be.  I understand the naysayers will continue to ridicule Bob and others for some of the time declarations made in the past…so be it.  Big picture, do these time delays matter more than the fact that they are truly committed, and working on a ground breaking machine?  I’m not trying to be an apologist, just a realist.

    My advice to GM is to first, make less time declarations to the public–continue to keep us informed, but resist the temptation to suggest Easter, then June, then July, then…?

    Second, keep your eye on the ball.  Don’t get distracted by what Toyota is saying this week, or what the politicians are saying, or the price of gas this week, or the myriad of complaints and gripes everybody has to throw at you.  Just stay focused on making the product the best in world-class quality and design–bar none.  Concentrate on making your products the new bar, to which everyone else needs to shoot for and catch-up too.  In doing that, we’ll all be winners for it.

    Lastly, (and I can’t stress this enough), always, always, always, UNDER-PROMISE and OVER-DELIVER!  
    
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    Jim I Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 8:31 am

    Eco:

    I just looked up the median income for a 2 person family in Ohio from the US Census Bureau.  It is listed as $48,332.00.  75% of that is $36,249.00.

    So I would say that the price that GM is talking about is right in the ballpark of where you say you want it to be.

    Pricing is not my area of concern.  It is all the conflicting statements by so many different people at GM.  I think that Mr. Waggoner should appoint a single person that is responsible for releasing accurate information about this car.  And if there has to be a change, give a real reason why. 

    That is all that I am really asking for.

    If the mules are late because of the late arrival of the A123 battery pack, or the LG pack is really not working up to spec, or there is a problem with software development, or the assembly plant really won’t be ready for volume production until 2011, just say so.  I can live with the reality of the situation, but it has to be based on good solid information.

    Mis-information, and speculative comments by people at GM, who may or may not be authorized to make these comments, do nothing but hurt the long term outlook of this vehicle in the eyes of the people that are waiting to purchase it!  
    
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    DieselGuy Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 8:45 am

    #4 is right about this being a positive indication of GMs committment. A slip like this in a major automotive development happens all the time. The only thing is that it is usually not revealed to the public. And just because an intermediate milestone is missed does not automatically mean that the end date has to move out. For instance, by increasing the number of mules they will be able to ensure the number of targetted validation miles are achieved.  
    
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    cantjam Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 8:47 am

    Just be glad that there are plenty of other choices coming our way.  Hey GM, Americans have bought plenty of other brands for years. Don’t expect us to wait on you for E-REV either.

    I want GM to get this vehicle right, but i’m not holding my breath waiting.  I’ll electrify my Olds Calais and bite the gas bullet for longer trips before i think that GM is going to save me with the Volt.   
    
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    BillR Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 9:13 am

    #14 Jim I

    I know that the misinformation that has been provided can be frustrating, however, the media can be a powerful tool.

    If you remember the Gulf War, General Schwarzkopf broadcast practice videos of an amphibious landing, and said any invasion of Kuwait would require this manuver.  However, in the end, there was no amphibious landings, and the Iraqi Army was completely surprised.

    Don’t you think GM might use some of these tactics to distract their competition?  I’m sure they will be honest with us, but will they reveal secrets that might hurt their competitive position?  I don’t think so.  They might be testing mules right now, but don’t want anyone to know or see them until July.  It is just good business.

    So my $.02 worth of advice is – don’t always trust everything that is said by the GM executives (some show aren’t even on the pulse of what’s happening), and expecially don’t trust what is said to the media.  
    
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    BigRedFed Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    My suspicious mind at work in reading into Lutz’s words:
    A123/Conti have the better technology, but GM is worried about production, with their agreement w/ Mercedes, they are not sure that they will be able to package enough for the Volt.  Since they are also co-producing the battery they are also not happy w/ Conti’s agreements w/ Mercedes and maybe looking for a different packager.

    LG Chem has the production capacity, but their technology is not as good as A123, not saying that it’s bad, but it may be borderline for reaching the 40 mi electric goal and the 10 year warranty goal.  GM  doesn’t want to have a situation where a bunch of the cars batteries fail in the first couple years or people don’t achieve the 40 mi range in normal conditions.

    There’s also all the developments that are happening all the time, like w/ Valence Tech and other battery companies and GM maybe wishing they had more time to go back and choose a new battery company altogether.  
    
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    Luke Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Instead of making statements about the dates of milestones — could they release a Gantt chart that we could use to follow along?  That way, we wouldn’t have to get so worked up over a big milestone that may slip due to a minor issue.

    Also, it seems like it’s about time for some more sketches of the body/interior design…  
    
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    Jeff J Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 11:06 am

    #14 I Totally agree with your post.  I can sit back until 2013 and see how all this plays out . 50 years from now your         e grandkids will not give a hoot about the year this car changed the world . But if GM screws the pooch on this car 50 years from now are grandkids could still be burning fossil fuels. So I will bite the bullet and wait IMO its worth it.#11 statik Agree ,If everybody could take that outlook it would be better.  
    
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    Rashiid Amul Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    If the time needs to slip, then fine.  GM can’t just bite the bullet and start production.  IMO, they already have a bad reputation for making junk.  Whether or not this is a deserved reputation can be opened up for debate.  GM must get this car right.  They must build it so that it is very reliable, good looking, comfortable, priced for the masses, easy to drive, etc.   GM is trying to turnaround their image.  The last thing they need to do is release a car that is simply not ready.   The Volt will get here.  Personally, I would rather see it come out as a winner, than another loser American car.  I believe the stakes are high and GM needs a big win.  The Volt is the way.  Let’s all mediate on that thought.   
    
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    Jon P. Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Honestly i might ask at the Volt Nation if we can get a Gag order on Lutz.
    If he isn’t making all these "big" statements the process so far would be totally normal.  
    
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    Mark Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Delay, delay, delay. 

    Every thing that Bob Lutz has said is now being re-worked.  First it was 60,000 units in the first year, at under 30,000 with test mules done in March.

    Now its 10,000 units in the first year, only 5 cities will get them, over $30,000 and test mules delayed till June.

    Let me ask..are they serious about this car?  Every little delay equals ’stall’ in my mind.  If they were serious, they would try desperately to maintain their original goals. 

    I will have an electric vehicle as my next car.   Whether it is produced by GM, Toyota or Mitsubishi, or even a start-up like Th!nk.   
    
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    GXT Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Guys, this is just a 3 month delay while GM gets a handle on the whole 8-speaker stereo issue.  

    In the end, I think we will find that this delay is indeed trivial.  Lots of bigger problems have not yet arrived or have not yet been disclosed.  
    
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    Jeff M Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    A 3 month delay doesn’t bother me either… I work in software and even with a non-physical product we had to push various milestones out.

    However GM does have a big problem… they are in serious trouble like the other 2 of the big 3, and every delay decreases their lead over the competition (and in fact the competition may beat them), and they need to be a leader, not playing catch up all the time.

    Now Nissan just announced their EV will be out in 2010, though only for fleet sales in California, and a general roll out in 2012.

    Off topic: Lyle, this new forum editing box is REALLY SLOW! Obviously lots of javascript in it  Also seems buggy…  
    
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    Ron Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    #19 BigRedFred,
    Your implication that GM is trying to be the exclusive customer of A123/Conti and might be carying on a urinary olympiad over Mercedes also being a customer is misplaced. GM, Dodge, & Ford all installed axles & transfer cases made by Dana/Spicer for many years and still do today. A Dana 60 front axle from a Ford won’t interchange with a Dana 60 front axle from a Chevy due to specific features that each company ordered such as spring mounting specs, but a vast majority of the internal components (such as bearings, gears, seals, & carriers) will interchange.  This is an easy way for the supplier to leverage mass production and basic tooling while still supplying a customer specified functionality.  
    
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    Jim I Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    #18 – BillR:

    Here is my problem with your position:

    Either GM is going to be open about the development of this vehicle, or they are not.  They can’t have it both ways.

    And if they are releasing mis-information to Lyle, who in turn passes it on to us, to try to introduce FUD to their competitors, then I find that to be just plain insulting.  That makes this entire web site just a pawn in their chess game with Toyota, et al.

    And to everyone else concerning the delays, I agree and understand that there will be delays on a project as massive as this.  They are to be expected.  But as I said, if they are truly committed to being open in this process, then give real reasons.
    I really think that #20 – Luke and #23 – Jon P.  have great ideas!  
    
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    John B. Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    I agree with Dave B’s statement in #12, "2012 far too long to be paying $4 + gas in this country.  I can wait to 2010, but beyond that is a stretch."

    I would make the same point even more strongly:  by the time the Volt is mass-produced in 2012, the national average pump price for 87 octane will hit not four, but FIVE dollars per gallon.

    Many factors account for the recent acceleration of US gas prices, and none of them look to be subsiding anytime soon.  

    One obvious cause of higher gas prices is global demand  consistently rising faster than global supply (particularly due to rapidly rising demand from China & India).

    A less obvious, but also important factor is the drastic decline in our dollar’s value relative to gold and to other major world currencies.  In turn, reductions in short-term interest rates tend to weaken the dollar.

    The Federal Reserve’s Open Market Committee next meets March 18 and early May.  Those meetings will result in a combined reduction of overnight/short-term interest rates by at least another 0.75%. 

    These rate cuts will weaken the dollar further, making the dollar price of gas even higher than it would have been otherwise.

    In short, the more the US dollar declines, the faster we’ll get to $5 and $6 gas.  Even if I wanted to pay those prices till GM finally gets around to selling me a Volt, I can’t afford it.  
    
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    John B. Says:
    March 14th, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    p.s.  Look for Toyota and Ford to offer plug-in versions of the Prius and Escape hybrids before GM mass-produces the Volt.  
    
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    Jeff J Says:
    March 15th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    #22 opinions are like A-holes most of them stink!! I’m just a low life autotech And my opinion sinks most of all. But please don’t put down GM ,I work on every make and model of car as a tech for over 23 years and Gm is soooo much better is not even close, And what I mean is is a GM rolls in my shop I can Daig. the problem in half the time and the parts to fix said problem are half the price , ie happy customer , and GM is not the car&trucks I see the most I just love Nissan & Dodge and the best car ever made the "NEON"  (can you say HEADJOB), Its the car that makes me money. I make my living on shitty cars, enough said. PEace be with you Amul.  
    
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    Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
    March 17th, 2008 at 6:08 am

    I wonder when – given the official standards of GM – the +/-200 prototypes will be on the road.

    for this number of +/- 200 see :
    http://www.gmeurope.info/social_media_newsroom/archives/361-Camouflage-and-disguise-fight-against-prototype-paparazzi.html

    You can read there :
    "around 200 test cars that have to be disguised in the run-up to series production. "  
    
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