As people have pointed out in the comments of the last unrelated post, Larry Burns who is GMs chief of R&D has been quoted as saying, with respect to the Volt:
“We’re not going to sell it in every city and we’re not going to sell it though every Chevrolet dealership,” and
“It just doesn’t make sense to do that yet. You’d have to set up the service parts in all of those dealerships and train all of those dealers to service the vehicles. We might concentrate it in five or ten cities and say that is where we want to start.”
Earlier reports have quoted Bob Lutz as saying 10,000 Volts will be made in the first model year, and there are ~4000 Chevy dealers in the U.S.
Part of the purpose of this site is to let GM know how many of us are out here and wanting the car, and our numbers are growing.
I tried to confirm these plans for limited launch with GM officials. It was indicated that any new car takes time to roll-out, but there is no limit to how many GM hopes to sell. I have been told by executives that they would love to sell Volts “in the millions”.
Source (just-auto) via (Truth About Cars)
This entry was posted on Thursday, March 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pm and is filed under Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Mar 13th, 2008 (3:17 pm)Looks like history is repeating itself. They limited the EV-1 roll out and ‘claimed’ that it didn’t sell well. Are they going to do this again, just to claim that "The Volt didn’t sell well, so we’re scrapping it" ? I’m skeptical about this..
Mar 13th, 2008 (3:27 pm)If you have car, will travel!
Mar 13th, 2008 (3:30 pm)I’m not sure that the chief of R&D is the best source for information on production volumes, but it would not surprise me if most of the Volts in the initial months were targeted for large urban areas like LA, NYC, Houston, etc.
This provides a large cluster of vehicles in a small area so several dealerships can get their maintenance staff trained on the Volt.
With time, I expect the car to become distributed in suburbia, and finally the rural areas.
This is obviously going to be an important product launch, and GM doesn’t want to take chances. When the Trailblazer/Envoys were first introduced, GM had dealers hold them on the lots for a suspension component problem, even though some were already sold! They didn’t want the same fiasco that Ford got into with tires on the Explorer.
Mar 13th, 2008 (3:41 pm)Say the Volt does roll out in October 2009. That’s 3000 Volts a month. Over 2010 thats 36,000 more. If sales are greater than volume I’m sure GM will increase the monthly runs. If GM can find a way to put the sticker under $30,000 I think they’ll sell every one they make well into the next decade.
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:08 pm)Rich @ 4, all of your figures are wishful figures, but dead wrong. 2009 has never been a possibility mentioned by GM; the under $30,000 figure has been rejected completely by GM; and 36,000 Volts in 2010 seems a pipe dream.
Mark @ 1, I do share your concerns that history does seem to be repeating itself. Let’s just hope the Volt is actually for sale rather than on a lease.
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:12 pm)Sounds like a good plan to me, walk before you run. So Lyle, how do you feel about having several thousand "flatmates" for a month or so while everyone takes delivery? LOL.
I am sure the early adopters will find ways to get around the limited roll out. The rest of us will just have to wait.
As I said in a previous post I expect they will limit to fleet roll outs for QC and reliability reasons, just as Toyota will do for the PHEV Prius. 2012 will be a big year for us.
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:23 pm)I hope they send a dozen or so up to Canada during the initial production run. At least give us a chance to test them up in the cold and during some winter conditions.
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:23 pm)GM could make a lot of people happy, if this forum were to be the place where the first release dealers were listed, giving us an early heads-up.
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:41 pm)With limited supply and demand like this, I’m wondering what mechanism will be in place to keep dealers from gouging?
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:43 pm)IMHO, if GM does it this way, they are making a HUGE mistake…..
Keeping them all confined to a few smaller geographic areas does nothing from a reliability standpoint. If the cars all fail in New York City, or anywhere else in the country, what difference does it make? They have still all failed. And they will still all have to be fixed. Come on, it is not like they can’t get parts to any dealership within a day or two…. Fed-Ex does work!
Also, as has been posted here previously, what is to stop anyone from flying to any of the limited areas of release, buying one, and driving it home. Or are they trying to say that they will refuse to sell it to me if I do not live withing 50 miles of the dealership? You know the dealers would love to try to enforce that one, when a customer has a check in their hands! If it fails, will GM refuse to fix it? Or what if I live in LA, buy one, and drive it to see my kids in North Dakota, and it fails. What am I supposed to do – flatbed it back to LA? That will be a real positive experience that the owners will love to tell everyone they know…..
This car has to be ready to go for a nationwide rollout. There may only be a few sold from each dealership, but Chevy dealers in every part of the country have to be ready to deal with this car. Anything else is a disaster waiting to happen.
Another way to handle this would be to only deliver cars to the dealerships that have committed to training, equipment and parts. That way, there would be a list of the available dealers ready to sell and service the Volt anywhere in the country. And only those dealers would have access to the available Volts. With incentive like that, the "Dealer Markups" you know they are going to put on these cars will make them more than enough to cover the inital investments.
The "walk before you run" statement does apply to the initial quantity of vehicles produced. That is how they will be able to track the initial quality and reliability. But to try to limit the sales to some pre-defined geographic areas is simply not workable!I refuse to believe that GM could be this short sighted……………
Mar 13th, 2008 (4:59 pm)It’s an ALL NEW VEHICLE and getting the dealer network up to speed with parts and training will cost FAR more than pre-production R&D. There WILL be massive growing pains for both buyers and GM.
As much as I want one in Richmond, VA, it is wize for them to "roll them out" city by city, state by state instead of trying to service every market everywhere all at once.
Mar 13th, 2008 (5:08 pm)Not sure what all this means. But if Volt production begins in late 2010, then roll-out (referring to the cars becoming available in the selected dealerships) would begin in the Spring of 2011. And if the 2011 model run is limited to 10,000 cars, it would be late 2011 or early 2012 for a regular joe like me to have an opportunity to buy one. So we are looking at the possibility of yet another one year slip.
Mar 13th, 2008 (5:27 pm)Late last year I wrote the owner of a big Chevy dealership here in Southeast Michigan. I lauded the Volt, saying how excited I was at the prospect of purchasing a green car produced by one of the Big Three, and that I hoped the dealer would someday have a Volt waiting list. What did I hear back? Zip, zero, zilch, nada.
Mar 13th, 2008 (5:31 pm)http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN1334279820080313
GM to road test Volt battery packs in July
Mar 13th, 2008 (5:40 pm)They seem to have a failure fixation at GM.
What is going to fail? The batteries and the motors? Unlikely, they will be tested to exasperation.
They may have rumours of unexplained performance issues traceable to the software or the occasional system reboot on a motorway but that isnt a terminal failure.
Fear of failure has never stopped Apple, or Microsoft, they thrive on it.
inmho
Mar 13th, 2008 (5:51 pm)If they keep screwing around like this with delays and limited number of vehicles, Toyota, Honda and Mitsubishi will have cars out and capture the market.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/11/06/transportation-tuesday-toyota-i-miev-sport/
One of the most innovative electric sports cars by Mitsubishi, the i-MIEV Sport, was just shown off at the Tokyo Motor Show. This cute and sporty beetle-esque electric car comes with optional photovoltaics for solar power, and will be powered by a pack of Li-ions that will allow drivers to go about 100 miles before needing to recharge. While concept electric vehicles are released every year that never make it into production, this snappy little vehicle gives us hope for the future, because it will go into production in 2009
Mar 13th, 2008 (5:55 pm)As a Canadian, this bugs me. There are at least three cities in Canada which constitute big enough markets for the Volt (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, with Toronto being a particularly large market – the fourth-largest in North America – and Vancouver being a particularly environmentally-conscious one), but if it’s only being sold in ten cities, I have a feeling they’re all going to end up in being American. I could stretch my purchase of a car to the Volt launch date, but if it turns out we’re going to need to wait another two years to get one in Canada, I’ll be off to buy a plug-in Prius one of the new clean diesels Honda and Nissan are working on.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:07 pm)Oh great! Frankly, I don’t really want to deal with GM or my local dealer, but I’d like to support US workers, and I want to buy a car like the Volt yesterday.
However, from these comments, I’m pretty confident that they won’t be selling the thing in my area. I do not want to have to drive hundreds of miles to buy one, and I most certainly do not want to have to drive hundreds of miles just to get the thing serviced.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:11 pm)OK, so what if I demonstrate that I really want to buy a Volt? Will they then allow my local dealer to sell me one? and will they then allow my local dealer to service them?
(This scheme would limit the speculation necessary on GM’s part.)
How normal is it for GM to introduce a new model and limit its availability to this extent?
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:18 pm)How much service will the Volt need? Part of the allure of electric cars seems to be fewer moving parts, therefore less service. Obviously service will involve replacing consumables like wiper blades, tires, fluids, light bulbs, fuses, air cleaners. Replacing consumables shouldn’t be too hard. If a service call is for work on the electric motor and/or battery, aren’t the electric motor and battery relatively modular and easy to replace…or would the tech crack them open? The techs already have a lot of experience with ICEs. I’m sure, with a little training, techs coulds master the Volt’s ICE. If a software problem occurs, perhaps a service technician could connect the Volt’s computers to the internet for remote diagnostics/repair. If a board gets fried, call the Geek Squad or some such entity to put in a new one.
Maybe the plug’s prongs will get worn out.
If the Volt is really a "moon shot," all of GM, even the dealers and service people, need to step it up. To really establish the Volt as an icon, to make people associate the Volt with the electric car the way people associate the Prius with a hybrid, the Volt needs to get out there, in numbers, before anyone else. Why does R&D have to work so hard, only to be held up by the service people? Get Volts to market! I need one now! I can only hold out so long before I have to buy a new car.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:20 pm)Hey Jay (#17) don’t forget about Calgary as being an economically strong marketplace. Folks out here have plenty of money to spend on new toys like these.
I’d say dump 5 in each Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:32 pm)I saw this news release earlier this morning and posted it on an older blog. I guess it makes sense in the long run to ensure reliability of the car but it’s looking like 2011 now for most of us. BTW, I check Chevy’s web page daily for updates on the Volt and thought there might be something brewing this morning but I guess they just made a mistake and linked the page to "Fuel Solutions" in error. Maybe someone at GM will read this and it will get fixed. Here’s the link.
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:33 pm)Thomdbhom (#19)
My father bought one of the first Oldsmobile diesels (he was a truck driver.) It was new technology he wanted to encourage, but there were problems GM didn’t anticipate.
I’m a technical guy. I would like to encourage this new technology. However, I fully expect that GM will find bugs in the early Volts. (Maybe the batteries won’t perform as well as expected when cold, or hot or… maybe the motor won’t be up to snuff…) Who knows?
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:36 pm)This is a fascinating article, hehe. I’m afraid we are in a ‘overpromise-underdeliver’ scenerio.
GM only has one vehicle to watch out for if they truly want to eventually sell alot of Volts, (no, it’s not the Prius lol). As mentioned earlier in this thread its the Mitsu i-Miev.
It is all electric, it comes in two forms, a 80 mile and 100 mile range. It has the same number of doors and seats the same as a Volt. It has a established dealer/service network. It’s coming to market in 2009 (limited test fleets), full production in 2010 and MOST IMPORTANTLY, confirmed to North America at the auto show this year.
Sure it has it’s faults, like what if I want to go more than 40 or 50 miles one way? Or why does it look like a nerd’s shoe?
I have a feeling alot of us will not be able to resist buying the first ‘real auto manufacturer’ production electric car. Of course we could always buy two…I know I’d be happy to have a odd pair, lol.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:43 pm)The trick to servicing the Volt and having dealerships prepared is having a strong Master Volt tech Help desk for dealerships. It would be impossible to have every dealership trained to service the Volt and when people take trips they may need service at one that isn’t.
Since most technicians are versatile they would just need help with the Volt. By centralizing a Master Volt Help desk with vid conferencing etc. they would be able to get expert help in diagnosing the problems and learning along the way. Or does anyone think that a week end cram at "Volt school" is going to make a tech that’s never actually worked with one experienced?
BTW, I’ve heard that Toyota is still having problems with dealerships that are not equipped to service the Prius and its complicated drive train.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:45 pm)#22 Frustrated would-be Volt buyer
Thanks. I appreciate the strategy to minimize liability for surprises that might arise. I guess I was just venting my own frustration. GM needs to find the right balance between caution and risk. The "moon shot" statements suggest that traditional approaches, like a slow roll-out, will be reconsidered.
Mar 13th, 2008 (6:47 pm)The Volvo Re-Charge looks interesting. When might we see them?
Mar 13th, 2008 (7:16 pm)Us Canadians will likely get screwed out of the Volt for a year or two. Only 10 cities? Most likely ALL in the U.S. And if/when they ever do get to Canada, only the bigger markets will get them first (Toronto, Vancouver). What about Winnipeg? If they bring one to Winnipeg I will in fact buy one.
Mar 13th, 2008 (7:20 pm)Rockyroad @ 15, you make a good point about competition. I love the Volt, but I’ll buy my EV where and when I can first walk in and pay and walk out with a vehicle.
Mar 13th, 2008 (7:42 pm)I’m crushed…I was really hoping to get one of the first production Volts….but since I live in podunk central Ohio, I doubt if my odds are good……sigh.
Mar 13th, 2008 (8:03 pm)Well, what about Walla Walla, Wash.?? Kalamazoo, Mich.?
Thanks, and a tip o’ the hat to Walt Kelly.
Mar 13th, 2008 (8:07 pm)I guess I’d better start wining and dining the local Chevy sales manager. Canadians may have it easy, by the time the Volt comes out and they come to the States to buy, it will be half price to them with the dollar exchange rate.
The article was neat, thanks. At the bottom it said the Volt can go 40 miles assuming a full battery. I always wondered about the 80% to 30% cycle, but this makes it 100% to 30%, or about 11 kWh. That may be enough for 40 miles, it is 3.6 miles/kWh.
Mar 13th, 2008 (8:40 pm)>> I’ve heard that Toyota is still having problems with dealerships that are not equipped to service the Prius and its complicated drive train.
Watch out for those trying to tarnish reputations. They will later come after Volt too.
Dealers were trained & equipped even before HSD expanded to Highlander or Camry. Also, how could "drive train" be considered complicated? The PSD is trivial compared to an automatic? There’s no gears and the power carriers are always engaged.
Mar 13th, 2008 (8:57 pm)John1701a
There are no reputations at stake here. If I can find the link to the article I’ll post it. May very well be that there are dealerships that won’t want to service the Volt after it’s released, we’ll find out.
Mar 13th, 2008 (9:21 pm)Disappointing doesn’t say it.
Mar 13th, 2008 (9:27 pm)Grizzly 33
"May very well be that there are dealerships that won’t want to service the Volt after it’s released, we’ll find out."
That would be a big P.R. mistake. The Volt is, after all, not a one time shot. It is GM’s future power train. If a dealer refused to sell or service Volts, they are offending more than a Volt driver. They are telling the public that when E-Flex starts being fit to Malibu’s, etc. they are "old school" thinking. A reputation becomes hard to change.
If, on the other hand, they are stuck because they can’t get parts or training for a tech. from a back-logged Corporate, that’s different.
Mar 13th, 2008 (9:46 pm)#24 Grizzly ,its just not that easy , when you have a Car that can KILL the Tech you just don’t take that risk, (law suit heaven) I can see the line at the court house now. New Technology new problems. #27 mark count yourself luck , let us Lower States folk slug it out for the next 5 years . LOL then swoop in and pick up my car for pennies on the dollar.#23 Statik most people I know still feel that their car is their car, what I mean is my wife and I own two auto’s but in my mind I own one SUV and she owns one car, and if push comes to shove and she walks I need to know that I can drive my ride to cali & back if I have to , most americans will not risk being stuck on the side of the road if you have to take the EV car IMO. Hey guys I don’t what to be a downer , hell I love life and I always try to look for the bright side , But lets get real we have a car that I believe can change everything that we know and how we use Fossil fuel forever, but is kind of change doesn’t come easy and if you think for 1 sec. that you are going to get your way at your price then good luck and keep dreaming. I bought a Lottery to today too.
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:07 pm)We’ll I was assuming that every dealership service dept would have a rubber suite like those kid’s PJ’s with the slippers built in and start from there…..LOL.
You’re right though, and I’ve always understood that this is no small undertaking, that’s for sure.
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:09 pm)….er that should read…"suit" not "suite".
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:18 pm)#36 Jeff J
What’s all this about killing techs? People have been handling electricity for a while now. My Honda has an electrical system that has never hurt anyone. I suppose I could get a few sparks if I shorted the circuit.
Aren’t there safeguards GM could install to forestall electrical crises? What is the probable mechanism for tech electrocution? Someone previous mentioned a tech just poking around the Volt and getting electrocuted. Is there more to that fear than just a vague possibility? Is tech electrocution a realistic concern?
I’m not an electricity expert. But, I’ve been around electricity. I realize that electricity can kill. But, I still allow it into my house. So, if you could explain the probable dangers to me, I would appreciate it. I want responsible information aired and fears relieved.
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:20 pm)Well, we can sit here and guess forever what the reasoning behind the supposed remarks of Larry Burns are, assuminghe actually made those remarks. Or we can call him and ask for an explanation. I’d vote for option number two.
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:30 pm)After a bit of thought, I’m not so sure that ANYONE really knows how many will be built, supposedly that first full
year of production. It will certainly depend in large measure on battery and vehicle costs, which apparently will recede at an unknown rate in successive years. It will also depend upon just how confident GM execs are that the car won’t have a bunch of hidden killer deficiencies. Nobody wants to
put a lot of cars on the road that will require a very costly recall. The fact that so much of the technology is new is
working against the confidence needed to build lots of cars.
How things will look three years from now is practicallly utter speculation, so I wouldn’t take very seriously any comments (by ANYONE) about how production will proceed. I think it’s way, way too soon to make any kind of an educated guess. All estimates will be so conditional as to be practically of no value.
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:32 pm)I should certainly hope that the 10,000 signatures on this forum would receive due consideration. I mean, Lyle only took a lot of his personal time to put this site together to bring notice to GM’s efforts that without web coverage might not have the exposure it has. Part of me understands why they want to limit the rollout, but the other half of me says it’s not fair to the potential buyer. I live in Alabama and after reading the many comments here, I certainly hope I’ll be able to purchase one. But if push comes to shove, I WILL travel to another state to get one.
The reality of the rollout is that something like this has never been done bafore (the car, not the rollout…). So I can understand that in the halls of GM there is a measure of trepidation. There are potential buyers wishing for its success-at the same time there are a lot of nay-sayers and anti-American Auto Mfg. people who are waiting for this to fail just so that they can shout "I told you so."
I won’t get religious or philosophical, but as a Christian, I firmly believe that if God didn’t build it, a material object at some point will fail. It is our job to make sure that the failures are few and far between. But despite all that, if I have to fly from Alabama to Baltimore to get a Volt and drive it back, then that is exactly what I will do. Maybe one of the major cities will be Atlanta or Orlando…I hope…
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:34 pm)There was a remark, it was something like, it would be too hard to equip the dealers at one time to handle all the Volts.
They could do it IF they wanted too, but like the old EV1, they LOVE to p*ss money away, about $1 bllion worth. (Then they bitch when they don’t have enough)
Now they have raised the price on the Volt from(well under, as per Bob Lutz) ~$30k to $35k. Now they want to sell in select areas, so us folks in smaller cities can’t purchase one? I don’t know about some people, but this deal is getting worse by the day.
They get our hopes up, then cut us off at the knees. The bateries could be produced tomorrow, and the excuse they give for the radio/HVAC is a "crock" as well. Sure, electric heating/AC is a power demanding item(s). You can’t get around it. What are they going to do? Run the radio at 300vdc?
It’s sounding like they really don’t want to build this thing, they tell us they really want to build it, but look at the picture as a whole. They feel reasomably sure it’ll hit in 2010, but in reality they could have it mid 2009 IF they want to, it’s easy making excuses about various things, it’s too hard to take the blame.
Mar 13th, 2008 (10:54 pm)Sigh.. It’s looking like a similar regional plan that was used for the EV1 with it’s California and Arizona locations. Back in the 90′s I was so excited to hear the EV1 was going to be built. Is it going to be "Who Tried to Kill the Electric Car Again?". It will be a serious wound for GM. The reasons we all want the Volt are as varied as the people who post here so why go through the list again… I will say this to GM:
I will acquire an electric that goes at least 40 miles on battery at highway speeds. As Statik stated above, Mitsubishi has a very nice i-MiEV. Yes, it doesn’t have an ICE. I used to have a concern about range anxiety but no more. Just a bit more thought (about a years worth) produced the realization of keeping a good condition older petroleum (gas) car. Older means no taxes, lower purchase price, no exotic parts and associated costs, lower insurance requirements (keep just the bare minimum) then go out and buy the MiEV. The MiEV will handle 95% or more of my driving requirements. If traveling further than the 90-100 mile range of the car, put it in the garage and take out the gas burner. This situation may not work for everyone but it’s just fine for me.
GM, I will have an electric whether you sell it or not.
Mar 13th, 2008 (11:11 pm)Little bit off topic, but I stumbled upon this interesting interview with Andrew Farah, the Volt (ICE) chief engineer.
Apparently, there will be quite some carry forward from the EV-1.
http://tinyurl.com/ytbpwl
Mar 13th, 2008 (11:37 pm)GM may end up with the best of all problems: a great car and a greater demand. It’s going to take the wisdom of Solomon to not end up pi$$ing off substantial numbers of potential customers (myself included). A month ago, I wasn’t nearly as apprehensive as I am tonight.
I’m hoping that the folks at the Javitz Center are candid, and don’t try a Dog and Pony show. In any case, I think I’ll know more on the ride home from NYC on the 19th.
Like they say on the local news: Film at 11…..
Mar 14th, 2008 (12:00 am)Mules on the road in July, says Lutz.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN1334279820080313
GOLETA, Calif., March 13 (Reuters) – General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) will road test lithium-ion battery packs for the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid beginning in July, slightly later than expected, Chief Executive Bob Lutz said on Thursday.In an interview with Reuters, Lutz also said that GM may not name a battery supplier for the Volt’s next-generation lithium-ion power supply until the second half of the year."We were hoping to do that in the first half," he said when asked when GM would name a battery supplier. "That may also be a little bit longer now, as we need a better handle on who has the technological capability we need and who is going to have the production capability." (Reporting by Nichola Groom, editing by Leslie Gevirtz)
Mar 14th, 2008 (1:21 am)Any big company should be able to build an electric car in a few weeks/months. We are presumably waiting YEARS for the Volt because it will be a mass market product, i.e., this time is being spent making sure that manufacturing is ramped up, the supply chains are all in place, technicians across the country are getting trained, etc.
It seems like this project is being sabotaged. The price will be too high because of BS like "windshield wipers" and the availability will be ridiculously limited. The commercials are already f*****g terrible, with the greenie pedophile and the dog licking feet. Of course sales will be terrible and the project will be killed off just like the EV-1.
Mar 14th, 2008 (6:22 am)This is all very new technology for the auto industry. GM has to maintain control over the roll out or it will be a disaster. I agree that the roll out has to start in areas that would give the best sales and support. Then spread out sales as time goes on and production and support improve. This is one of those situations that can not be viewed as an instantaneous event. I don’t think this will be a EV-1 situation. To much is riding on this for GM.
Mar 14th, 2008 (9:26 am)#32 Reply: Hey Karik, going state side would be a great way for Canadians to save money and get a deal if pricing regimes continue as they are. The only problem with that is GM Canada has this stupid policy about Canadians staying at home and if they do buy new, state side they will not honour the warranty. When it comes to a vehicle like this I want all the warranty I can get.
Mar 14th, 2008 (9:37 am)I read this every day, but have never posted till now. What is the deal with all this negativity and reading the tea leaves assuming this post makes the Volt the EV1? Quit with all the baseless assumptions, am I the only one that remembers the Volt Nation conference coming up on the 19th?
There will be plenty of opportunities to get specific questions answered there.
Remember, GM didn’t kill the EV1, the consumer did, just as they will the Mitsubishi that only goes 100 miles.
Mar 14th, 2008 (10:04 am)Snowboard, your kind of right. California quit the Zero emmision mandate, and the car went away. People wanted the thing(purchase), but GM said NO.
You see, GM had a good working car, probably the best working car, and they killed the program to pursue bigger things – Hummer..
Haven’t you noticed, when was the FIRST thing GM has done GOOD that wasn’t mandated? The ONLY reason GM built the EV1 was because Cali mandated it! It wasn’t because they wanted to build something different.
The companies generally don’t do something unless somebody makes them do it, and the only reason why GM is doing this now, they’re scared of the middle east. but this isn’t the 1st time that sort of thing happened either.
Lutz done said he could care less about global warming, I will give creidt where it’s deserved. I’m glad GM is going to build the Volt. It looks like a cool car!
I can’t attend Volt nation, but I would love too….
Mar 14th, 2008 (10:36 am)I’m from NJ so maybe i’m a little biased. (NY or Philly rollout is fine with me)
But if you live in the middle of nowhere, don’t expect to drive a game-changing revolutionary car like the guys living in the big city. I’m pretty sure when ford introduced the Model T he did the same thing GM is proposing.
Some of you guys are saying things like "this will be a major mistake for GM" . Obviously most of you are only thinking like consumers. Look at it from GM’s perspective. Rollout 1 million cars nationwide, and hope for the best. Or have a responsible buisness model where there is limited production in the 1st year (10-20 K) sold in mostly metropolitan areas. Where you can gauge the interest and base your next years production numbers off of that.
Cmon guys this isn’t the gold rush, unlike alot of yours GM mindset isn’t "get there as fast as possible now matter the cost, or loss" I want this thing now, but i can see and understand responsible buisness practices.
For the record there were over a million Ford f-series trucks sold last year. In just about a year we’ve got 14,000 people on our waiting list assuming their all serious. So it’s not like the Volt has the "tickle me elmo" level of demand. I know were all really excited, but this site dosn’t represent the feelings of the masses. I think the country is starting to realize the need to electrify but there is still alot of people who like their Expeditions & Hummers, so give GM a break for taking a logical approach to building such a revolutionary car.
Mar 14th, 2008 (10:47 am)#49 Tom,
"It seems like this project is being sabotaged. The price will be too high because of BS like "windshield wipers" and the availability will be ridiculously limited. The commercials are already f*****g terrible, with the greenie pedophile and the dog licking feet. Of course sales will be terrible and the project will be killed off just like the EV-1."
Why don’t you go on about your buisness and check back with us in 3 years. It’s obvious from your comments you don’t expect anything good to come from this. So until it’s 2010 and we can say "here it is now shutup" just go back to spewing hate somewhere else. Your wasting my time with your non-informative post and your getting me down. I’ll have plenty of propoganda from big oil to deal with in the next 3 years, so i don’t need you polluting my hope for a better automobile.
Mar 14th, 2008 (11:12 am)Adam #53
<i>Snowboard, your kind of right. California quit the Zero emmision mandate, and the car went away. People wanted the thing(purchase), but GM said NO. You see, GM had a good working car, probably the best working car, and they killed the program to pursue bigger things – Hummer.. </i>Adam, this demonstrates precisely the mentality that I am frustrated with. Its kind of joke here in CA that the only time people ever saw EV1′s in CA was on the back of a trailer, being towed back from somewhere because they ran out of power!<p>
They DIDN’T have a good working car, that’s what well meaning people need to grasp. They had a really neat car with a fatal flaw that made it impractical by 98% of the buying public. GM’s own feedback from EV1′s leasers proved that most of them didn’t even want to be tied down to such short distances and long recharges. Heck I’m fascinated by this technology and I wouldn’t touch the EV1 with a 10 foot electrical poll. <p>This animosity towards the Hummer, that GM won’t do anything they aren’t forced, and conspiratorial rumor mongering is just the kind talk that marginalizes the alternative energy movement. For the record, the EV1 buried itself by its own myopic design. No one would have bought it and the followup electric cars would have been tainted by the stench of its public failure. As it is now, its gained this cult following in certain quarters. Silly, but I have no problem with that so long as people use this passion to pursue the Volt’s superior design and make it a commercial success.
Mar 14th, 2008 (11:58 am)Grizzly #46
Great link! I can never get enough of this stuff.
The EV-1 lives on after all. I believe they are using parts and ideas from the fuel cell Equinox(Project Driveway) as well, as it is also electric driven.
Mar 14th, 2008 (1:31 pm)Gas will be $6-7 a gallon or more in 2010 and they will be releasing the Volt like they think it won’t sell??
Mar 15th, 2008 (2:55 pm)The coverment of Sweden has declared that Plug-in hybrids/electric cars are the next generation enviromentel friendly cars.
Stockholm the capital city of Sweden has just begin to build a big network of charge station over the city, ready to 2010.
So I think GM are very velcome to sell the Volt to Sweden
Mar 15th, 2008 (3:37 pm)Snowboard sez, "They DIDN’T have a good working car, that’s what well meaning people need to grasp. They had a really neat car with a fatal flaw that made it impractical by 98% of the buying public. GM’s own feedback from EV1’s leasers proved that most of them didn’t even want to be tied down to such short distances and long recharges."
You are misinformed. Unhappy customers wouldn’t be hiring lawyers in an attempt to keep the cars they leased. For a report of an EV1 rental, see:
http://www.portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm
One guy even took his on a 3000+ mile trip (for which it was certainly not intended) and created a nice website at :
http://www.kingoftheroad.net/charge_across_america/charge_html/chargehome.html
His EV1 FAQ answers a lot of questions about how the EV1 was to live with.
For whatever reason GM destroyed them, customer dissatisfaction with the car was not a valid motive. GM published a lot of crap after they killed the program.
Mar 15th, 2008 (9:02 pm)California, Florida, and New York, and the rest of the county can forget the car —- I wonder if this is what GM is saying. If so, it will bring back all the old cynicism left over from the EV-1.
Mar 15th, 2008 (9:21 pm)So for those of us from NC who had been planning to go to the Javits Center, I guess the question is whether there is any point in making the trip, if no NC cities are going to be on the "top 5" list, which I imagine is extremely unlikely.
Mar 15th, 2008 (9:40 pm)62RB,
Maybe all the more reason to go. One would hope there’ll be SOME answers that let us knwo that we can "Abandon all hope" or "have to be patient". "We have no idea at this point" shouldn’t be an option for an answer.
Mar 15th, 2008 (9:45 pm)It does make me wonder though, IF GM didn’t do the dirty, where would batteries be today if they studied batteries at an earlier state?
Mar 15th, 2008 (10:31 pm)>But if you live in the middle of nowhere, don’t expect to drive a game-changing revolutionary car like the guys living in the big city.
The car may be game-changing and revolutionary for all practical purposes but mechanically it’s just like any other car on the road, except that it has a motor and a battery. It would take very little extra training for any car mechanic to fix it, so there’s really no reason for this limited release.
Mar 15th, 2008 (10:39 pm)>It’s obvious from your comments you don’t expect anything good to come from this. So until it’s 2010 and we can say "here it is now shutup" just go back to spewing hate somewhere else.
Actually, I’m posting because I DO (or at least DID) expect something great from the Volt and I’m very emotionally invested in it. That’s why I’m so upset when I hear about this nonsense about windshield wipers and the price and the service training, etc.
I could just as easily tell you to stop reading this blog for the next 3 years so you can think happy thoughts about rainbows and unicorns and not have to hear any potentially negative discussion about the Volt.
Mar 16th, 2008 (6:21 am)My guess on the 5 cities is Detroit, New York, Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles. This is a big disappointment for all the rest of us.
Mar 16th, 2008 (12:31 pm)"But if you live in the middle of nowhere, don’t expect to drive a game-changing revolutionary car like the guys living in the big city. I’m pretty sure when ford introduced the Model T he did the same thing GM is proposing."
Those of us out here in the middle of nowhere (NC, the 10th largest state), remember the history of Ford’s Model T somewhat differently. Ford’s introduction emphasized small towns, such as those in Michigan and Ohio, by pointing out that gas-powered vehicles would work in such places. Remember that the big cities were then the domain of short trips with electric cars. I guess one might say "here we go again." Ford, to his credit, was thinking about mass production. GM, with the Volt, apparently has regressed and again is thinking about a niche car.
Mar 16th, 2008 (2:06 pm)RB #68:
That is a GREAT idea! If GM is really concerned about the reliability of the first run vehicles, they should only be sold in an area that is close to the assembly plant, in case there are serious recalls!
So I think the initial 10K Volts should be sold in Detroit and Kalamazoo in Michigan, and Columbus, Cleveland, and Youngstown, in Ohio. That will give them good testing areas for both winter and summer driving, hilliy and flat terrain, city and highway driving.
Now how do you people in NY, LA, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, or Miami feel about the limited release????
:)
Mar 16th, 2008 (8:38 pm)#60 Storm Connors
Fantastic web links Storm, it was great to read how well the EV1 with NiMH batteries worked and the interesting bits of information on the 3000 mile road trip by the EV1 with lead acid batteries. Seemed like the car sparked interest everywhere it went. I wanted an EV1 when first announced over a decade ago and it’s so frustrating, GM knows how to do it. They did it 15 years ago. I’m expecting the Volt to have nothing less in capabilities of the 2nd generation EV-1 (NiMH batteries), that would include a range of at least 40 highway miles, not the city driving cycle range. You clearly demonstrated the technical ability to produce the most advanced electric car that existed in that time, my expectations are the same for 2010.
Mar 16th, 2008 (11:08 pm)From what I’ve been reading, the bureaucracy in Canada may prevent you Canadians from registering your Volt anyway. Two Canadian EV manufacturers can’t sell their cars in Canada even though they meet all the requirements.
Mar 17th, 2008 (12:51 pm)#69, Jim I:
I live in LA, and my response is – whatever works. I can see the merit in what you are suggesting. If GM deems that to be their best strategy, we will just have to deal with it.
I think that many of us are making the calculation every day as to whether to wait for the Volt, or change our present cars for something with better mileage now. I usually keep my cars for 10 years plus, so the decision made now impacts what I will eventually do about the Volt. If I can’t get one until 2012 or something, I may have to go to Plan B.
It is really instructive to look at the history of the introduction of the Corvette. With its FRP body, it was fairly revolutionary for the time, They made 300 basically toolroom models in 1953. They parceled them out to Hollywood personalities, and other VIPs, thinking that it would get them a lot of good press exposure. The result was that they lost the interest of the public. When they went into larger scale production in 1954, the car sold very poorly, and they almost quit making them. Only 700 1955s were produced, for example.
Is history about to repeat itself?
Mar 18th, 2008 (2:47 pm)#69, Jim
— Great idea! Thanks. :)
Mar 18th, 2008 (2:55 pm)#72 noel
Thanks for the note on Corvette history. I didn’t know it. Another good reason per #69 to limit sales to Michigan and Ohio — real people there, and nice people too
Apr 1st, 2008 (8:10 pm)[...] GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Concept Site always has something good to say. I like this one posted earlier today. Follow the link for the whole thing. As people have pointed out in the comments of the last unrelated post, Larry Burns who is GMs chief of R&D has been quoted as saying, with respect to the Volt: “We’re not going to sell it in every city and we’re not going to sell it though every Chevrolet dealership,” and “It just doesn’t make sense to do that yet. You’d have to set up the service parts in all of those dealerships and train all of those dealers to service the vehicles. We might concentrate it in five or ten cities and s [...]