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A123 Systems Currently Makes Enough Batteries for 100,000 Cars

March 7th, 2008 | Posted in: Battery, Production

a123.jpg

A123 Systems is a U.S. based battery company that has created a patented lithium-ion battery chemistry using a nanophosphate cathode material. These cells are felt to be among the most energy and power dense as well as safest in the business.

They with pack-integrating partner Continental Automotive, are one of the two teams developing the Chevy Volts battery packs. As we know, 2 of the teams packs have already been delivered to GM, the most recent this week.

In a new article for the Detroit Free Press, A123 VP Ric Fulop disclosed that A123 is actually already producing enough lithium-ion cells to fill 100,000 vehicles and is producing 10 million cells (per year) from one of its plants in China.

The article also points out that Teslas Roadsters battery has to reply on 6831 individual conventional lithium-ion cells strung together, which is more technically demanding and expensive.

Chevy Volt packs however use about 300 custom large-format cells.

A123 already has 850 employees with all of its manufacturing plants in Asia operating at full capacity.

Source (Detroit Free Press)

Also see my interviews with Bart Riley, CTO of A123 and Ric Fulop, A123 VP of marketing

Posted by: Lyle

32 Responses to “A123 Systems Currently Makes Enough Batteries for 100,000 Cars”


  1. Rashiid Amul
    Vote -1 Vote +1Rashiid Amul     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 6:26 am

    Excellent.  This means we don’t have to worry about a shortage of batteries as a reason for a delay for the Volt.   

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  2. BillR
    Vote -1 Vote +1BillR     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 6:47 am

    Of course, if you want to listen to the "consultants" in this article, the Volt will not be ready for the 2010 launch date.

    It will be interesting to see how the battery story unfolds.  

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  3. Mike G.
    Vote -1 Vote +1Mike G.     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 6:49 am

    I have been wondering if the 60K to 10K was due to battery supply…  I guess not.  Good news.  

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  4. KariK
    Vote -1 Vote +1KariK     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 7:23 am

    If they are already operating at full capacity, then where are the Volt batteries going to come from?  

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  5. Jason M. Hendler
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jason M. Hendler     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 7:40 am

    I suspect that the cordless power tool market will continue to grow, so their current capacity won’t suffice for that market alone.  A123 will definitely have to open more factories, or start licensing to other battery companies.  

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  6. Ter Meenal
    Vote -1 Vote +1Ter Meenal     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 7:43 am

    A123 is also manufacturing batteries for Th!nk. I’ve copied the following from Th!nks website: (note the first piece of info regarding the Sodium based batteries being great in cold climates…..the Chevy Volt team may want to pay attention to this…..) here is the clip from their site….;

    Sodium batteries: ZebraThe Zebra (Mes-Dea) battery has high energy density, and provides long range performance, independent of ambient temperature. It is “hot” battery, which means that the operating temperature is between 270 and 350 degrees. The battery is also made from environmentally friendly materials. This option is perfect for users who have a regular and frequent usage pattern. Active materials in the battery are salt, nickel and iron. The hot materials are contained in a vacuum insulated and sealed container. Thus, these batteries operate very efficiently in areas with very hot and very cold climate.Lithium-based systems: A123 and EnerdelTH!NK city will also come with two state-of-the-art lithium-based battery options. Both lithium options operate at ambient temperatures. This means that the car does not have to be plugged in when not in use. Think is currently co-operating with two suppliers of lithium-based battery systems; a NanophosphateTM system produced by A123 Systems and a lithium manganese system produced by Enerdel.The Mobility Pack : A monthly fee with ”Batteries Included” We will own the battery, and take full responsibility for its performance: The customer will only pay a monthly mobility fee (of typically EUR 200) which includes a full maintenance service agreement, carbon offset payments and in some countries even all electricity used, and insurance. In other words, customers can drive with the peace of mind that everything is taken care of. We will continue to take responsibility for battery performance throughout the cars life span, (and exchange the battery when necessary). We also provide body panels which are practically indestructible and do not rust, dent or fade over time. This means that the car will remain “young and agile” throughout its lifetime, and the re-sell value of the car will remain very high, as we have experienced with over 1,000 previous models of the TH!NK city car that still exist on Scandinavian roads.  

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  7. NZDavid
    Vote -1 Vote +1NZDavid     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 7:58 am

    The article does not say they are at full capacity. Roll on Volt.  

    (Quote)


  8. Koz
    Vote -1 Vote +1Koz     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 7:59 am

    From the writers "lips" to … I hope this is accurate but it just doesn’t ring true that they are currently manufacturing enough cells for 100,000 Volts. This many Volts require 30 Million high capacity units. And notice it doesn’t say per year and any timeframe. There is no way they could be carrying that manufacturing capacity let alone production without an actual market. I’m not saying that they won’t be able to produce the volume the Volt will need once it goes to production, but having that production today doesn’t make sense.  

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  9. nasaman
    Vote -1 Vote +1nasaman     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 8:05 am

    6. Ter Meenal

    Not intending to hijack this thread, but I want to let it be known there is an answer to the question we raised here last week about a Fortune 100 automobile company "partnering" with Th!nk…..  I received an answer to an email sent to Th!nk marketing several days ago this AM which explains that the partnership is with General Electric, certainly a Fortune 100 firm but NOT an automotive manufacturer (yet). [However, I wonder if GE might be considering becoming an electric car OEM?!?!]

    Here’s the email: "The announcement that had been speculated on was indeed the GE one. There are at this time no plans for any new announcements about any automotive manufacturer.  Hope that helps."

    "Don Cochran
    Th!nk United Kingdom
    Sales & Marketing Director"

    This thread is now released & I surrender as a confessed but well-intended thread-jacker.  

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  10. NZDavid
    Vote -1 Vote +1NZDavid     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 8:26 am

    9 nasaman GE has also invested in A123 so they can ramp up production.
    6 Ter Meenal The Zebra battery is only made in one factory in Switzerland which is not interested in increasing production. Also they only last for 5 years, which Th!nk will replace as part of the rental.
    8 koz The announcement says they are making the ‘equivalent’ of 100,000 vehicles, they could easily be talking about hybrids with 1.2kw batteries. I would be surprised if it was 100,000 Volts.  

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  11. Ter Meenal
    Vote -1 Vote +1Ter Meenal     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 8:35 am

    10 NZDavid

    Thanks for the additional info on the Zebra battery. My intention in posting the original info was twofold:

    1) To let people know that A123 is not manufacturing strictly for the Chevy Volt.

    2) That there is a battery technology that works really well in colder climates (I would guess that the Chevy Volt team has probably looked into this issue)

    Ter  

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  12. Dave B
    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave B     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 8:50 am

    I do not agree or even suspect that the A123 approach is better than the Tesla Roadster’s battery packs.  200 mile range is nothing to sneeze at, and those packs have been in testing for the last couple of years, and have consistently proven that they can charge 1500 times and hit 100,000 miles.  Until A123 and GM shows me otherwise with the Volt, I’ll admire the success of Tesla’s product.  

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  13. Dave B
    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave B     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 8:51 am

    Oh, Nasaman @ 9,

    You managed to get an answer from Th!nk when numerous other bloggers were wondering whether one of America’s [former] Big 3 would partner with Th!nk.  Nice job.  

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  14. Jack
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jack     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    to #12
    I don’t call it any more of a success for Tesla  then GM. Until it has proven itself on the road, we won’t know which one is better, but I will bet on A123.  We’ve read that the A123 battery meets GM’s criteria so if we go by lab test Tesla has  no more proof than GM.  

    (Quote)


  15. kent beuchert
    Vote -1 Vote +1kent beuchert     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    I read that Detroit Free Press article and was appalled at how the author managed to cast a neative light on everything including a quote from some supposed "battery expert" that the Volt could not possibly be produced by 2010. No 
    particular reason was given - it just can’t be done. Why a battery exert would know anything about automotive development cycles remains a mysery. Better tell plug-in newcomers Toyota (2010 launch date promised)
    and isker (2009 launch date promised) and those others who are even promising all-electrics (Nissan – 2009). Then the quote from a GM Volt member that the battery lifespan
    of more than 10 years cannot be guaranteed as of yet (with no mention of LG’s comment that their battery would probably last 30 years if the component wires would last that long).  Then there was the quote from Denise Gray that "We’re not there yet" but no explanation of what exactly she was referring to, but implication was it was about the batteries and some deficient technology. Nothing, absolutely nothing has yet been mentioned about the battery packs lacking anything in terms of GM’s specs.  By anybody.
    My favorite idiot quote was from another of the article’s "experts" that the Volt was being rushed to market without sufficient safety testing.  The only thing he can possibly have any concern over would be the  battery pack, but after reading about the results of destroying fully charged batteries , the experience of many years with Toyota and Honda hybrids that have the capacity to electrocute their owners,etc I’d say this was another case of the author
    simply putting out another negative without explanation. Today’s automobiles are virtually all-electric.
    The claim that this is all new technology is totally ignorant and absurd. And electrically propelled cars like the EV-1 and Toyota Rav4 have been around for decades without any
    problems. Ditto for Prius and Civic hybrids. The only conceivable reason for including the vague and pointless and baseless comment was to cast more negatives on the Volt.  

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  16. Jake
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jake     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    I have great confidence in A123 Systems.  I don’t have any insider information but if cycle life is good enough, I would feel very confident having their batteries in my car.  As for safety…if their latest automotive cells are anything like their M1 (power tool and who knows what else) chemistry, they are nothing if not safe.  People have physically and electrically abused these things and they just don’t die.  And if they somehow do, they have a pretty benign failure mode.  

    (Quote)


  17. KariK
    Vote -1 Vote +1KariK     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    Holy cow, a 200 euro monthly fee is $300 per month.  And that is on top of your car payment.  Ouch.  

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  18. Grizzly
    Vote -1 Vote +1Grizzly     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    The news about the cells is obviously good, but the challenge is producing the pack because if I’m not mistaken there is no automated process to accomplish this.  It’s got to be done by hand.  I seriously doubt that all 100K packs would be hand assembled in Germany, and I’m pretty sure that the test packs that were delivered didn’t have, or have a full BMS on board.

    So there is still room for concern.  After all WRT what is considered the battery for the volt, the individual cells are just raw materials.  

    (Quote)


  19. David L
    Vote -1 Vote +1David L     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    #17 Karik wrote:
    <blockquote><i>Holy cow, a 200 euro monthly fee is $300 per month.  And that is on top of your car payment.  Ouch.</i></blockquote>

    Keep in mind that the car payments will be less due to the battery not being included in the purchase cost. Also gasoline (petrol) costs in Europe are typically double that in North America – so it is fairly typical for someone to already be spending US $300 on gas each month.  

    (Quote)


  20. David L
    Vote -1 Vote +1David L     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Darn … <blockquote>s aren’t working as expected. :-(
    (An "edit my post" function would be nice …)  

    (Quote)


  21. noel park
    Vote -1 Vote +1noel park     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    An item in our local paper this morning says the the local Pontiac -GMC dealer is closing tomorrow. 

    This is a business that has been in the same family for 40+ years that I know of myself.  It is located on 3+ acres in a facility that was brand new within the last 10 years.  It fronts on the busiest arterial street, a state highway BTW, in Torrance, CA, a fairly affluent suburb of LA.  

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  22. Will
    Vote -1 Vote +1Will     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    NZ David,

    The last line of the article is "A123 already has 850 employees with all of its manufacturing plants in Asia operating at full capacity."  I could be wrong, but that does sound to me like they are currently operating at full capacity.  I imagine though, that they are planning to build more factories in preparation for E-Flex.  I’m pretty sure the volt is only the first in a hopefully long line of EREVs.  

    (Quote)


  23. Jeff J
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jeff J     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    #15 Kent , After reading this article Iwas left with the same thoughts you have . Great post ! I would also like to know the Date at which these people are asked thier questons  , today 3-7-o8  or were these statements made six months ago . Just three weeks ago most people on this thread were just hopefull that Li-ion would work.
    #21noel park I’m just wondering  how much is gas today, in your neck of the woods , Its 3.25 gl. in kentucky at most pumps.  

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  24. thomdbhomb
    Vote -1 Vote +1thomdbhomb     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    #23 Jeff J

    In San Luis Obispo, CA (half way between Los Angeles and San Francisco) I pay about $3.65 for regular.  

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  25. Ter Meenal
    Vote -1 Vote +1Ter Meenal     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    17 Karik

    Part of the 200 Euro rental goes towards paying for the users electrical bill (the portion that is used to charge that battery). The rental agreement also provides for unlimited battery replacements. I suspect that the price in U.S dollars will not be a direct conversion. I point you to the price of cars in Europe compared to the same cars price in the U.S., they are not direct conversions.

    Ter  

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  26. noel park
    Vote -1 Vote +1noel park     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    23 Jeff J:

    $3.45 most places, $3.29 if you really search for the cheapies, and they have lines!

    24 Thomdbhomp:

    My younger son is a Cal Poly grad.  We have fond memories of SLO.  

    (Quote)


  27. Jeff M
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jeff M     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Like Koz said, I’m not sure what info is really in Lyle’s post… it says "producing enough lithium-ion cells to fill 100,000"… what does "fill" mean and which vehicle(s)?  It doesn’t say Volts… it could just mean Prius type hybrids….

    …. looking closer at the article Lyle references the accurate quote is "Today, we are providing enough batteries to power the equivalent of 100,000 vehicles,".  Ie. it means they are producing lots of batteries, but it does not mean the format or chemistry going into the Volt.  These could be laptop, cell phone, etc batteries.  Also "equiv of" is vauge as well… how many kwh do they imagine is equiv of an average vehicle?  Are they talking about enough to drive it 10, 20, 30, 40, or more miles per day?  

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  28. Grizzly
    Vote -1 Vote +1Grizzly     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Jeff M,

    Good point(s).  I got the feeling as well that A123’s production is for other current projects and that they’ll still need more capacity, unless they’ll use this when(if) it becomes idle.

    They have a very good point about Tesla’s pack.  How in the world would you get to one of those cells in the middle of that monster pack if it went bad?   With the wafer design, it would be like removing a CD or DVD from a carrying case, and replacing it w/ another.   Much smarter.  

    (Quote)


  29. ug
    Vote -1 Vote +1ug     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    "Holy cow, a 200 euro monthly fee is $300 per month. And that is on top of your car payment. Ouch." That’s why Th!nk’s business model is dead on arrival.    

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  30. Jeff J
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jeff J     Says:
    March 7th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    Thanks  Thomdbhomb & Noel Park ,  If ever there was a Time to launch this car this year is IT .  IMO look for GM to roll out the production model on 19 March . And remember you heard it here first. Have a Great weekend  Y’all!!!!!!!  

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  31. Ter Meenal
    Vote -1 Vote +1Ter Meenal     Says:
    March 8th, 2008 at 12:06 am

    29ug

    Read my post #25. (200 Euros does not necessarily mean that the cost in the U.S. will be a direct conversion…..for proof of this examine Euro car pricing)

    Ter  

    (Quote)


  32. GSP
    Vote -1 Vote +1GSP     Says:
    March 8th, 2008 at 8:51 am

    29ug,

    Th!nk’s business model is likely not to bad.  In Norway they have to pay a huge tax on new cars, about 100%!  Except for EVs.  That makes the Th!nk City very attractive to Norwegians, despite the battery rental cost.  Brits will like the City as well, to avoid the huge cost of driving a normal car into London’s congestion zone.

    GSP  

    (Quote)

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