AND 
Who do you Think Th!nk will Work With?
Th!nk is the Norweigian carmaker that is building a small electric city car, which will be running on lithium-ion cells made by U.S. battery maker EnerDel.
The Th!nk City, as its known, is an electric minicar, the first of which rolled off the production line in November 2007, and is expected to begin selling in Europe later this year. That car is capable of 180km range and a top speed of 100km/h.
Last week, Th!nk chairman Jan-Olaf Willums made the surprise statement that company is about to unveil its next-generation electric car, a five-seat sedan. Further was the tantalizing fact that it will be designed and engineered in collaboration with a major global automaker.
Other sites have theorized that the as yet unnamed partner could be Ford or GM, but we’ll have to wait until next week to find out.
Source (Greentech Media)
48 Responses to “Who do you Think Th!nk will Work With?”
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March 2nd, 2008 at 7:25 am
It’s an intriguing question, Lyle, especially since Ford has financial problems, has already “been there, done that” (they spent ~$150million on the Th!nk to make it meet US safety standards when they owned the company), then gave up and sold Th!nk.
The Th!nk model pictured above is reminiscent of the VW Beetle. As such, it’s a charming design when compared to the Smart or even the Prius and I’d bet the US model will be much closer in size to the Prius than to a Smart ….but still compete with both. I’d also bet that the new upsized model will have to include a range extender to make it E-REV like the Volt —from what I’ve read, its limited range as a pure EV has limited its sales appeal. And there’s one US company that has the cash to invest, has the technology needed and could probably be very interested in a Th!nk as what I’ll call an ECO-ECO car (is there an echo in here?) —meaning a no-frills, “peoples car” that’s both ECOnomical & ECOlogical. So to me it’s a no-brainer and I’ll guess the US partner will be….
GM!!!
PS: GM already has a major presence in Scandinavia –Saab– who could perhaps provide technical support (engineering, etc) to Th!nk
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March 2nd, 2008 at 7:48 am
Will it be sold in the US?
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March 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 am
2 RB
We may hear whether they’ll sell it in the US at Geneva next week (I know they had once wanted to bring a previous model over here.)
BTW, Th!nk has used an intiguing sales model: “Th!nk will exclude
batteries from the purchase price, and charge drivers a monthly
fee to “rent” them instead of buying fuel. That way, the car can
price around $16,000 to $17,000, and drivers will pay less per
month than they’d spend on fuel and maintenance for a regular
car, Mr. Willums says. Think also will use part of the fee to
offset carbon emitted from the electricity the cars use.” ….from: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/think_ev/message/3041
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:10 am
nasaman
Thanks for the heads up and the link. I hope Think does bring the car to the US, as it’s sales will be a measure of interest in cars of this kind. If they use the same kind of “fuel charge” we can find out if people will go for it. It’s unclear to me how the ordinary purchaser will mentally differentiate the battery payment from the car payment — already paying for the car once, why twice? I don’t think the Think is everyman’s car in the US, but selling some might resolve some issues (such as cold weather performance) and create a reference point for the Volt or others.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:31 am
why would GM partner with this? it’s in direct competition with the volt. the 2011 model will be a 5 seater with a IC range extender that would be built in the US. i would think it’s the volt’s first competition. gotta be ford or chrysler. if it is ford or chrysler, this is great news. And Toyota and Honda are still picking their noses?
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am
I think it will work here but a lot depends on pricing. With the backing of one of the Big Three there will be a network in place for servicing.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 am
I think it would makes sense only for an auto manufacturer that is totally behind the eight ball in electric vehicle design. The following companies have a good start in hybrid / electric vehicles:
Toyota, GM, Honda, Hyundai (Pheonix), Daimler, Mitsubishi
Nissan might. BMW might. Renault needs to produce an electric vehicle for Israel. Peugot might. Lotus seems content to design and do limited production.
Chrysler is in receivership, so I don’t believe Think! would merge with them.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
5. wrigley
You say, “why would GM partner with this? it’s in direct competition with the volt.”
I respectfully disagree. The Volt will be a 4-seat, 4-door Sport Sedan that I think of as the “Camaro Z-28 of E-REVs”, whereas the Th!nk is a no-frills econo car. They differ in design appeal, size, performance and price…..
Th!nk:
- Designed as a city or commuter car
- Small, comparable to a VW Beetle
- Top Speed ~60mph; Range ~100miles between charges*
- Base Price: under $20,000 (my estimate)
*As currently designed, the Th!nk City is a pure EV; For more details on the Th!nk go to: http://en.think.no/ —(unless you read norsk, be sure to click “english” at the top right)
Volt:
- Designed as an all-around, sporty sedan w/front & rear consoles
- Comparable in size to a Chevy Cobalt
- Top Speed >100mph; range >600miles between fillups
- Base Price: under $35,000 (hopefully)
So I see the Th!nk as complementing the Volt, not competing with it, and if GM deleted some battery capacity/space & included a tiny range extending engine/generator, it could be the lower-priced E-REV that GM needs to bring to market for those who can’t afford a Volt.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
Wrigley@5
I think it’d be excellent for GM to invest in this joint venture. First, GM could use a BEV, which so far, they have been completely mum about. People are still realing over the EV-1 debacle. I’d still like a BEV.
Second, the Th!nk partnership is to create a BEV and E-Rev, which seems to be GM’s focus at the moment. Why reinvent the wheel?
I wasn’t aware that Th!nk had planned on leasing the battery–is there s source for that? That would permit GM to dabble in a couple of different test programs to figure out what works. I’m hoping it’s GM.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 am
9. Dave B
As included in my post #3, the link for Th!nk’s battery “rental” idea is….
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/think_ev/message/3041
BTW, your thoughts about GM offering both a BEV version & an E-REV version of the Th!nk are very interesting. My guess is that both the extra battery space & the cost needed to go from a 40mi to a 100mi EV range would be largely offset by a tiny range extender. If that’s so, there could be a Th!nk 100mi BEV model AND a Th!nk 40mi EV/300mi E-REV model that should not differ dramatically in manufacturing cost from one another! And since Th!nk’s CEO has said the present car should cost $16-17K (when renting the battery), either model should be very appealing as an entry-level EV or E-REV in Chevy showrooms ….alongside the upscale Volt!
Anyway, it’s fun to speculate, at least until we know more from the Geneva auto show announcement next week.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:59 am
I’m kind of leaning toward ford on this, why? GM has been in battery what battery should we use debate, and still is. Well don’t you think whatever battery they would use in the Volt, they would carry that to the Th!nk too?
I really don’t see GM going with Th!nk, but Ford was partners with them at a time, so maybe Ford will be just like the old days..
It doesn’t matter to me in the least, the Big 3 need all the help they can get. Dodges’ R&D is lame these days, but maybe they pulled this off too. It’ll be very interesting to see what happens, but I really don’t think GM will be involved. Then again, I would be surprised if GM is involved!!
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March 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
I don’t think a Pure BEV is going to ever be a big seller in the US. Sure there was the EV-1 hysteria, but in reality how many would they have sold if offered for sale? 1,000, maybe 10,000? Not commercially viable in my opinion.
Put a range extender ICE in it and I might consider it.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 am
Every time I read about the possiblilty of rent/lease the batteries, I get an uneasy feeling. I want to own my car, not lease. I’ve never leased a car and or thier parts and don’t intend to. I’d rather pay the upfront price once and call it mine, all mine. In fact, my last two cars were paid by cash. Who needs another interest payment?
Just my opinion.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 am
nasaman,
You give a reasoned argument as to why GM might engage in such an agreement with Think!, but I just don’t believe the case is compelling enough.
I think GM has a huge headstart on the ultimate configuration that people will buy, and I don’t think they would distract themselves with any other efforts.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am
I think that there are only two possibilities: GM (for the reasons put forward by nasaman) and Ford. I think that Chysler is undergoing too much financial restructuring for Th!nk to consider a partnership.
As for Ford, I gather than most of their current hybrid technology has been licensed and that they haven’t been putting much R&D dollars into plug-ins and EV’s. Ford may have now realized the folly of selling Th!nk shortly after purchasing them – making them a candidate for teaming up with Th!nk again. Finally, there is this little tidbit in the article …
I guess that we will know on Tuesday …
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March 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Please let this car come to Canada…
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March 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Based on the assumption that GM cannot afford to offer Gas, EV, and EREV versions of all their vehicles, my recommendation to GM would be to start with the following:
1) Partner with Th!nk to release their little two-seater as a pure EV. Maybe brand it as the Saturn EV2. IMHO a little commuter car like this doesn’t need the range of an EREV to be successful.
2) Create a Chevy Corvette EV. Give it great performance (like Tesla) to help dispel the golf-cart image to the general public (who have yet not heard of Tesla). IMHO a high performance car like this doesn’t need the extra range of EREV.
3) Continue with the Volt as planned. IMHO a general purpose sedan like the Volt needs the range of EREV to appeal to the general public.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
#16 Mark wrote:
I think that there is a good chance that it will … the biggest problem getting EV’s into Canada right now is that provincial regulators have been very slow at licenseing EV’s for road use. BC and Quebec have recently improved a lot, and Ontario is showing signs that they will soon be licensing many more EV’s.
Small, energy-efficient commuter cars have traditionally sold well in BC and Quebec – the Smart Car sold like the proverbial “hot cakes” when they were introduced to the Canadian market in 2004. I’m sure the “Th!nk City” would sell equally as well …
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March 2nd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Feasible if it has a major auto behind it in NA.
Renting the battery = total garbage.
So you get this little crapper for 17k, figuring you got away from exorbinant gas pricing. Nope…here is your $150/month rental fee!
What would the MPG in a car like this be if it had a 75hp gas engine? 60mpg? So you’d have to go 9,000 miles a month (150g x 60miles) just to break even on the battery rental…then another 1,500 to cover the electric cost you would have paid had you not been leasing it.
11,500 miles a month is the breakeven? Enjoy.
Don’t even start to think (or do the math) about what a car that looks like this would sell for if it was just gas. Like $9,999? So you are also overpaying $7,000 for the non-battery part of the car.
I demand autonomy in my electric car! I want to own my electric car and be able to tell the rest of the world to take a flying leap. That is the premium I think we all are willing to pay for!
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March 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Not sure about Canadian “hot cakes”. I mean about 900 cars sold in 2004 with a sales total to date of about 11,000 doesn’t seem like a runaway hit. Like the parking space it fits, the Smart fills a tiny niche in the automotive market. I believe the Think to be an even smaller market.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
17 PaulR
Some GREAT ideas –especially your idea of branding the Th!nk City as a Saturn! Speaking of Saturn, let me comment that Saturn is the GM division that, more any other, has customers that have come to EXPECT innovative designs. GM knows this, and it’s why GM’s first mild hybrid was a Saturn & it’s why that’s being followed with a 2-mode Vue & then finally with a plug-in Vue. A Saturn Th!nk would fit right into the product line.
But let me again argue that the Th!nk’s 180km (108mile) range requires a pretty big battery —which is appropriate for a BEV. However, the battery could be scaled back in size by ~65% (for a 40mi EV range), which would go a long way toward saving enough space, weight & cost to allow a tiny (2 cyclinder?) range extender for an E-REV version of the Th!nk to also be offered. For those who are wary of being “stuck” with a drained battery*, an E-REV version could probably be sold for not much more than the pure EV version. Saturn customers would LOVE IT!!! ….I know, I’m a Saturn owner.
PS: I also like your idea of a Tesla-like Corvette, but I’ve read that *Elon Musk’s Tesla (SN1) was fully charged for a magazine’s test drive, and that its battery was essentially discharged after only 90 miles (or about 90 minutes) of driving. I honestly believe if Tesla could do it over, they’d have included a range extender in the car (as they plan to do in the next model). Corvettes are made for open road driving, not city driving, so if GM designed an electrically-driven Corvette IMO it should DEFINITELY be an E-REV, but with a bigger battery to get 100+ miles of EV range (Corvette owners can afford to pay for the bigger battery)!
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March 2nd, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I looked around and found some other specs on the Th!nk that are interesting. I converted them from metric to US:
Summer Range – 112 miles
Winter Range – 56 miles with 3.5 KW heater
0-50 mph – 16 seconds
Payoad – 364 pounds
Length – 10.24 feet
Pricing was all over the place. One site said $25,000 Euros, which is $38,000 including battery. Another site said $16,000 plus $100 per month battery rental. A third said $26,000 less tax credit of $4,000 plus rental of $100 – $200 per month. So I don’t th!nk (sorry, I had to do it..) anyone really knows what the pricing will be.
To me, the really interesting spec was that the range was CUT IN HALF while using the heater, so maybe GM knows what it is talking about when it says that it has to make the accessories low draw items…..
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March 2nd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
The article does not say that the “global automaker” was a US company. I just don’t see GM getting anything out of this. Why would they partner with a company a fraction of their size when they’ve got E-Flex that is planned to proliferate this technology through their product line? GM has it’s OWN facilities throughout the world. Doesn’t make any sense.
The company that would benefit from this is one with global reach and manufacturing that needs an EV jump start. It’s anyone’s guess, but I wouldn’t rule out Folks Vagen.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Grizzly,
Yes, I forgot to list VW / Audi in my previous list, as they too are behind the 8 ball in alternative fuel vehicles.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I emailed Th!nk some time ago to see if they were going to release in NZ (maybe in the future, focusing on Europe roll out first).
They said the battery rental also included all servicing. Seemed reasonable to me. Also avoids the problem of the battery wearing out.
#22 Jim
Very interesting about the heater, yet again, another arguement for a range extender i th!nk.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Why not a heater that uses the same fuel as the extender engine. It could be diesel or whatever. This is nothing new.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Video of UK test drive. Pretty good discussion on video about the car.
Text message the car to determine the state of charge!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Os5H7_3NA
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March 2nd, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Tesla decided to heat the seats, as a means of reducing the energy consumed to warm the occupants.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 7:28 pm
I’m guessing the summer range did not include air conditioning. If it did, the summer range would probably be less than the quote for winter.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Think EV – Just arrived in London
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7uuz–zXw
Think EV – Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Os5H7_3NA&feature=related
Think – company website
http://en.think.no/
The battery rental is an interesting concept. The rental fee is around 120 pounds a month. 125 mile range, 65 miles per hour. You just pay a monthly battery fee instead of a gas fee. Also, since battery technology is sure to improve significantly in the next 10 + years this may be a great idea. If Yi Cui can get his 10X silicon nanowire battery working Think can just redesign the battery pack and switch it out. You would then have a 1250 mile range (if you charged it for 5 days) without any change in monthly fee. Also, what’s to stop another company from offering a compatible battery pack for outright sale? I have to think (yes it’s going to be an overused pun) about this concept more. The company can hold on to the battery technology, can control recycling, take responsibility for technology upgrades, etc. What do you guys think?
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I’m anxious for the Chevy Volt to run off the production line. Come on GM, let’s launch the end of OPEC as soon as possible. No more Chavez, nor more King Fahd, no more rubbing American noses in @#!@#.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 pm
#20, DaV8or wrote:
I don’t have any of the sales numbers, but I can tell you that in Victoria, BC – there weren’t nearly sufficient Smart cars to meet the demand. The 2004 inventory sold out very quickly. In 2005, even if you went into the dealer with a stack of $$$ (like a friend of mine did) – there was a 2 to 3 month delay between payment and delivery. The city has designated parking spots for ultra-small vehicles like the Smart car … some other local communities have done this too. I guess that it totally depends on the market – but on the “left coast”, low emissions vehicles are very popular. I think the Th!nk will sell well, but the Volt will sell even better!
#27, Jason M. Hendler wrote:
That might be fine for most parts of California, but I can’t foresee any car having wide appeal without having a front defogger and rear defroster. So the Tesla doesn’t have any AC for cooling? (Ya, I know the windows can be rolled down … but when you are stuck in congested traffic and it is 30 C (86 F) outside, it’s just nice to be able to recirculate cool air.)
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Re post #31 – Yes, I know the Telsa is a roadster and rolling down windows does not do much when there is no roof on the car. My comment about rolling down windows and it’s nice to have AC applies to all EV’s.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Having a flat rental fee of lets say 100 dollars per month, is much better then seeing the price of gas go up and down at the whim of Wall Street. It would bring peace of mind, knowing that the price of gas can keep going up and up, and you can just drive by the gas station.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Found the original email from Th!nk as below.
Regards
“Dear Sir or Madam,
There is no AC in the car yet.
TH!NK city meets all the expectations one would have to a modern car. It satisfies European and American type approval demands. It is constructed with deformation zones and is installed with driver and passenger airbags, ABS brakes and belt contraction mechanisms. It has a solid, ingrained body which sustains some friction. TH!NK city is unique in one respect, it is free of harmful emissions.
The car costs from 199.000.- NOK. In addition, one rents a battery pack for 975.- NOK (plus tax) a month.
The indicated prices are for the Norwegian market and will be adjusted for in other countries. We have included the mobility agreement because;
1. The battery is still quite expensive.
2. Think is responsible for the battery functioning as it should.
3. Think will deliver a new battery when needed without any additional costs.
4. It will be possible to “upgrade” to other battery technologies when available.
The car will be launched in the UK, Norway, Switzerland and Denmark in 2008. In 2009 we will look to launching in more European countries plus the US and Canada.
The price of the battery pack includes maintenance service. One can compare what the pack costs to petrol, road tax, toll fees and parking expenses. This Mobility agreement is part of the car. The second hand value of the car in strengthened by the battery agreement since it is transferred to the new owner.
For more information, please view the attachments.
If you wish to reserve/order a TH!NK city car or have any additional questions, please contact our Head of Sales, Sjur Heglund.
Telephone 23 40 84 22, mobile 97 60 02 66 or via email she@think.no
Sincerely,
Think Global AS
Liv Nordby
Marketing assistant
Tel: +47 23 40 84 00″
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March 2nd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
“# 29
March 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Texas
The battery rental is an interesting concept…… What do you guys think?”
*** **** **** ****
For Europe it might just work. For the US and GM, I’m afraid it won’t.
The answer is making sure the pack delivers what it should and keeping the vehicle upgradeable. No one wants to buy a car with emerging technology like this w/o an upgrade path. Leasing of any sort for GM/EVs is out of the question IMHO. I’ll say it again, that GM did nothing other manufacturers didn’t WRT to CA mandate EVs, but this remains a sensitive issue and GM needs to respect this regardless of whether it’s fair or not. It’s part of moving forward and doing the right thing for a change.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
#19 Statik the math never lies , thanks for your input .
So raise your arm if you are willing to trade a gas payment for a battery payment , Hey OPEC here’s another way to keep your hands around our necks, just buy out all the battery Co. & only lease the product !!!!
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Nasaman #21.
Thanks, glad you liked my ideas. I also agree that EREV may be the way to go, depending on cost and range desired/required.
I suspect this may be the 90 mile Tesla test you were referring to:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080124/FREE/398811820/1024/FREE
Here is a paragraph from that article:
//
We got 93 miles out of the full charge we had on our day’s drive, which was, as we said, spirited and over twisting mountain roads. The meter on the dash went from 95 percent charge to 7 percent by the time we got back to San Carlos. Those numbers were with the car set to make full power. As it neared empty, the Tesla automatically went into a conservation mode that limited torque by 50 percent. That made the indicated 7 percent at full power jump to 21 percent remaining charge at half power, when the controller opens reserve capacity in the battery pack. The record so far for a Tesla drive in ideal conditions is 267 miles on a charge. It is expected to have an EPA rating of 221 miles.
//
If I understand this correctly, the Tesla would probably have gone another 46 miles (21% of 221) before it stopped dead.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
It seems like there are some pretty simple alternatives for heating and cooling that would not draw from the main battery system and decrease EV range.
For cooling, one could use a simple ice bath heat exchanger. Each liter of ice absorbs 333 KJ of heat as it changes from ice at 32F to water at 32F. The water can be automatically re-frozen when power is plentiful (eg, when plugged in or when running the generator). Seems cheap and simple with few extra parts, and it can be shut off in the winter when it’s not needed.
For heating, one could use a simple gasoline fired heat exchanger. It could easily heat the cabin when running off the battery. Once the generator kicks in, engine heat can be used instead. All this would be automatic. For a pure EV, a butane/propane fired heat exchanger could be used instead. Cheap little bottles of camping fuel are easy to find.
These might seem like strange ideas, but they are really no more strange that what’s in today’s automobiles. They key is to refine them and make them simple to use.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Holy cow that’s a great idea , I just wish I had big oil money , sure hope they don’t read my last post . oops hehehe!!!!
#35 Grizzly , I think that this rental gimmick (only 24% interest) has a great chance of catching on in the US , we are use to paying monthly for things that use to be free. It pisses me off but it is a fact of life , its the get now pay later way of life !
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Jeff J #39
#35 Grizzly , I think that this rental gimmick (only 24% interest) has a great chance of catching on in the US , we are use to paying monthly for things that use to be free. It pisses me off but it is a fact of life , its the get now pay later way of life !
*** *** **** ***
I’ll agree on all but the special circumstance of the now infamous “shredder”. Some things just don’t die, and one thing about Jack Welsh is that regardless of whether or not a corporation has to make a profit, ultimately it’s got to “have a heart and soul”. Because, if it doesn’t, it’ll never survive regardless of how good it is with income stmts. and balance sheets and stock holders.
I believe that Rick Wagoner and Co. now understand this. Not easy to come up from the depths of RED and rework your entire world. I’ve got to hand it to GM and their strategy, and I believe that the future is theirs.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 6:02 am
My guess is Ford.
………………………………………
does anybody have more info about the ZEBRA battery that the TH!NK is supposedly using?
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March 3rd, 2008 at 6:21 am
to 41.
oops, I was reading from think’s website, that mentions the ZEBRA battery. The above article
says li-ion battery.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 9:08 am
PaulR #38
Your heating and cooling idea sounds good as a way to save battery power for locomotion. In the 1930-40’s before many cars had heaters there were after market Arvin (brand name) gas heaters that could be installed. One advantage was instant heat, the engine did not have to heat up for there to be heat. This day and time I doubt if people would like to ride around with liquid gas burning in the passenger compartment, but the butane/propane cylinders with the right kind of safety designed into the system might be a good alternative.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
For my Th!nk I would like to have a small trailer with an ICE on it for a range extender if I need to get on the highway. Otherwise just zip around town without it. The ICE on the trailer could also be used for power outages at home. (inverter)
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March 3rd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Why on earth do people think that a 100 mile range is not sufficient for a smaller short range travel within a city car???? Didn’t GM study show that something like 80% of commutes are less than 40 miles? (I forget the exact numbers, sorry) How can you possibly get stuck with a drained battery when most of commutes are less than half of the max 100 mile range????
And this BS about there is not enough interest. Well duh, there was not enough interest few years back when gas price was half of what it is today. It is a different world today where only sky is a limit for oil price (actually with speculators buying oil futures maybe even the sky is not a limit). Of course there is plenty of interest. Nobody builds a house in burbs with less than 2 car garages. Therefore, it is trivial to have one BEV like this for city commutes and another longer range vechile for longer trips.
Clearly it is not in competition with Volt. On the contrary it is an excellent complement to Volt so long as doesn’t have a range extender but a bigger battery. As suggested it would be a great additiona to the Saturn line giving choice to all those who stated here that Volt is too expensive.
Not to mention enconomy of scale and reuse of existing work to use the same batteries and other bits (low current wipers, stereo, etc.)
So the fact that this car DOES NOT have a range extender is actually the selling feature. No engine to maintain, no oil/gas to mess with, etc. As for the limited range, in the worst case you get towed home. It should be clear to all that this is only a city car, so you cannot possibly be far away from a tow truck.
Now this could be a great entry level EV from GM. Then when you want to upgrade we have Volt, etc. GM *NEEDS* a car like this to capture large market share. Otherwise they risk missing most of the market due to Volt’s high cost.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Well I decided to actually crunch some numbers (location Canada)
975 NOK = US$ 200 / month
commute to work = 100 km = 62 miles
estimate 0.3 kWh/mile = 18.6 kWh/day
cheap electricity at night = $0.05/kWh = $0.93/day
(excluding fixed charges as already pay them now)
rental $200/month = $9.50/work day
total = $10.43/work day
gasoline regular today = $1.1/L = $4.18/gal
summer: Honda Civic CX 6L/100km
$6.60/work day
winter: Honda CRV 10L/100km
$11/work day
So the good news is that electricity used by the car is dirt cheap. The bad news is that even for my longish commute the battery rental cost is very high. Compared to my summer car it is too expensive. Comapred to my winter car it is about the same.
Now there are several other factors. My existing cars are paid for compared to additioanl chunck of change for a new Think. During severe winter weather days I couldn’t drive it while still paying for battery rental.
On the other hand there is little bit of less maintenance (oil and such). Motor should last foerever, but then it is rusting frame that kills cars here, not engines. If those $16K or thereabouts figures are correct it would be half the price of a Prius and even less compared to Volt.
The bottom line is that Think rental is no go until gasoline price roughly doubles. At that point my existing cars are costing:
summer: Honda Civic CX 6L/100km
$13.20/work day
winter: Honda CRV 10L/100km
$22/work day
By then battery will have a higher capacity *AND* will be cheaper, so then its cost will look favorable.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Don’t assume that rent will never go up. Apartment rent goes up. Car rental goes up. Video rental goes up. Tools rental goes up. Just own the battery and forget about for the next 10 year. When 10 years up, but another car or get a better battery then before.
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