Comments on: Mercedes-Benz May be First to Put Lithium-ion Battery into a Mass Produced US Car: S400 BlueHybrid

By: PJK

PJK — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 01:17:20 +0000

I wonder if GM is considering batteries as a option.. smaller ones to keep the cost down and larger ones for people who want longer EV range? And the option to add batteries after you buy the car.

I rented a EV1 for 2 days in LA… I gave many rides to sceptics… every one was convinced in less than 10 seconds.
That first acceleration from 0 to EVgrin … nothing like it!
A first gear that never stops… no shifting…
Effortless acceleration… capturing energy while braking…
Once these EV’s get on the road… people will wonder why it didn’t happen sooner.

By: Kyle

Kyle — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:51:33 +0000

Maybe I’m really missing something here, but why are they not using the two-mode hybrid system that they developed in conjunction with BMW and GM? Does it not fit under the hood of a sedan? After all, we’ve seen it announced that Saturn will use Li-ion for their 2-mode Vue.

By: padredos

padredos — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:51:30 +0000

Hope the Volt intro is closer to 2009.

Its range, size (and looks!) would be a good match for my needs. Assuming 1) GM will in fact build it for production, and 2) price it realistically (don’t wipe out the marginal fuel cost efficiency vs similar mission vehicles), I would buy it the day they ship unit 1.

By: nasaman

nasaman — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:51:33 +0000

35 stopcrazypp

You’re right —I should have explained my comments in post #6 re the Mercedes S-class hybrids.

My thinking was based ONLY on marketing considerations, not technical or performance comparisons. So what I meant (and should have said) is that the vast majority of buyers in the $85-100K price range are those who consider PRESTIGE above almost everything else. And, unfortunately, the majority of these folks are not too concerned about the cost of fuel or climate change –they just want a "better" car than most other people have. So although the S-class mild hybrids just announced by Mercedes are totally different (and to me technically inferior) to the Tesla, the mere existence of a "hybrid" label is about all most "prestige" buyers will need to decide to buy.

BTW, GM knows this, and I think it’s why they have several prominent "Hybrid" badges plastered all over even their mildest hybrids —they want to keep those cars moving off showroom floors.

By: stopcrazypp

stopcrazypp — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 02:39:34 +0000

#6 nasaman
Sorry man that comment is just off. The next Tesla sedan is not even competing in the same class as the S-class. They are planning a sporty 5 series size sedan. Needless to say even just based on weight even the 299 hp V-6 S400 that will get 29.7 mpg won’t be as fast. The S300 BlueHybrid with a 221 hp twin-turbo 4 cylinder expected to get an impressive 43.6 mpg will be even slower. Do a quick calculation with the fact that Tesla will be using the same or similar pack as the Roadster for the sedan and assuming the sedan will get half the efficiency of the roadster (basing this on lotus exige closest in power to roadster getting 23/29 mpg and BMW 550i V8 15/22 mpg… 550i averages to about 70.5% the efficiency of exige but I’m saying 50%): 33705Wh/gal * 110mi/72kWh (Roadster gets 220mi/charge, 72kWh/charge is because of battery temp management and charging inefficiencies for the 53kWh battery) = 51.5mpg. Even the S300 isn’t close with it’s 43.6. Plus you can charge on renewable energy and electricity is usually cheaper than gas esp. diesel. The best you could hope for in the S400/S300 is biodiesel.

Come on nasaman, you are a Volt fan; trying to compare an assist hybrid like the S400/S300 to the upcoming Tesla sedan (either the EV or the E-REV model) is like trying to compare a current Prius and a Volt, they are completely different. A lot of the same arguments can apply to both senarios.

By: Texas

Texas — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:18:41 +0000

Jimee #10, Please check out the following link on High-voltage DC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC

Lightbulb above Jimee’s head about to turn on in 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1…

By: Jimee#10

Jimee#10 — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:08:22 +0000

Shawn, you are sure right on that, if they don’t need to transmitt it very far, so big gauge wire doesn’t have to be used. Like in a home.

By: Shawn Marshall

Shawn Marshall — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:16:24 +0000

Jimee #31

DC might start looking a lot better for homes with solar cells and high energy density batteries. AC won the early battle because you could use transformers to up and down the voltage and get high power transmission at practical current levels. Things may change someday with all this new battery technology on the horizon.

By: Jimee#10

Jimee#10 — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 13:07:29 +0000

When electricity was first said to be put in homes to lite up your house, (1900’s) people were terrified at the thought. Electricity all around you in the walls, what are they nuts. Edison even tried sabotaging Westinghouse’s AC current with his DC power which was not the best of the two as we know today. You are not a conspirerest if you believe that any company wouldn’t do anything to get the jump or derail another company from making a profit first.
Who ever is first, with the right combination of price and milage, will make that profit.

By: Grizzly

Grizzly — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 10:53:12 +0000

Texas…..

Yes….the consequences are great. The beauty about 2008 as opposed to 1996 is that this is GRASS ROOTS. All the lobbying and big corp shenanigans will ultimately fall short, and they are essentially powerless once the grass roots grow. We’re right on the sewing edge, and we need to cultivate. This is exactly why sites like this are so important.

Keep up the participation and we’ll see this through.