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Chevron and the Chevy Volt?
February 27th, 2008 | Posted in: Financial
The Car Connection just broke a story that the battery supplier Cobasys, which makes the nickel-metal hydride cells for GM’s hybrid Aura, Malibu, and VUEs is in deep financial trouble. Cobasys is co-controlled by oil giant Chevron, who is apparently in a financial dispute with the other co-controlling company, EDC.
The article goes on to say that GM has actually opted to buy the batteries for their new 2-mode hybrids (Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, and Sierra) for none other than Toyota-Panasonic.
Perhaps the most concerning, yet uncorroborated and undetailed comment was:
“Cobasys also has a key contract in the development of GM’s much-anticipated plug-in hybrid, the Volt”
Source (The Car Connection)
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Posted by: Lyle
20 Responses to “Chevron and the Chevy Volt?”
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February 27th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I am pretty confident that Chevron will be able to scrounge up a few bucks to bail them out.
February 27th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
If the component exists, why not purchase it from Cobasys, rather than just license?
That or it’s time to start talking to multiple suppliers…
February 27th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
“GM expects that it initially will have to absorb part of the cost of its planned plug-in hybrid-electric car, the Volt, which is scheduled to go on sale in 2010. “It’s going to be expensive,” Clarke said.”
Yikes. I don’t like to sound of that. I hope he didn’t mean expensive for the consumer.
February 27th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
They probably goofed, and meant to say plug-in Vue, instead of Volt. Cobasys is well-known to be building packs using a123 cells for the vue project.
February 27th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Well surprise surprise!!!
Chevron-Texaco in its effort to crush Ni-MH battery technology also crushed the demand and market for the product, making its battery division an instant money loser.
Keep up the good work guys.
February 27th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Do we know anything about EDC?
February 27th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Surprise, surprise, by running the battery supplier down, they eliminate the chances of us going to plug-ins….
February 27th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
This looks like a promising development … “Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline”:
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=JSK3F0UCQ15LEQSNDLPCKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=206801669&pgno=1
I always wonder whether these things they can do in the lab are ACTUALLY going to make it into final products like the Chevy Volt. Let’s hope so. I want the Volt to be a huge hit when it finally comes out. I want the Volt to blow everybody’s minds … especially the oil companies and OPEC!
“The first commercial product inspired by QuantumSphere’s technology will debut later this year: a battery using a cathode coated with the startup’s nanoparticles, thereby increasing its energy density 5x over alkaline cells and boosting power by 320 percent. The first commercial nonrechargeable batteries with this increased capacity will be announced by an as-yet-unnamed major U.S. battery maker in the second half of 2008.”
It looks like A123 and the other possible GM Volt battery suppliers ought to call QuantumSphere. I think it is going to be mind boggling the technology that comes out in the next 10 years. Nanotech is definitely a red hot field to be studying in college right now.
Silicon nanowire lithium ion batteries (http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/21/gm-voltcom-interview-with-dr-cui-inventor-of-silicon-nanowire-lithium-ion-battery-breakthrough/ ) along WITH this new nanoparticle technology for the cathode?
Lithium ion batteries that are 10-20 times better than the best ones out today? That’s what you call “paradigm shifting” for the the whole energy world right there. It changes everything … radically.
I never thought we’d really be filling up our hydrogen fuel cell cars with WATER but it looks like that might actually become a reality. Maybe they really can split water into hydrogen that cheap pretty soon. Who knows? That would be revolutionary alright. No need to have expensive catalysts or genetically engineered bacteria to make the hydrogen. Just make hydrogen “on demand” with water under the hood of your future 2015 model Chevy Volt? Wow. I have a feeling that Chevron might not like that too much. They won’t make much money off of water.
February 27th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
4 AES….
You may be right when you say, “They probably goofed, and meant to say plug-in Vue, instead of Volt. Cobasys is well-known to be building packs using a123 cells for the Vue project.”
Regarding Cobasys, it’s anybody’s guess what GM might do if their parent companies won’t bail them out, but Panasonic-Toyota could certainly supply the NiMh batteries GM needs, with one possible caveat…. Toyota has said it can NOT increase Prius production beyond about 180,000 cars (last year’s sales, I think) and I would guess that’s because the Panasonic-Toyota joint venture is trying to ramp up Lithium Ion production and/or perhaps also because Nickel is becoming somewhat scarce. (Just guessing —no inside info)
February 27th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
# 3 Rashiid Amul
#4 AES
I don’t think it was a goof. To me, it says that, initially, GM will take a loss on the Volt. That seems like the normal course of action when introducing a new product. In the long run, when production and sales ramp up, the Volt should bring in some decent cash for GM. The cost to the consumer will be carefully considered and has been discussed quite a bit in Lyle’s other posts.
February 27th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
@8. GM Volt Fan
Huh? If you have improved battery life, you use THAT to drive the car. If current batteries can run a car for 40 milies, and you get a 10 to 20 times improvement, that means 400 to 800 miles on a charge. Why would you waste all that energy to convert water to hydrogen? That makes about as much sense as using a hot plate to boil water to spin a fan to run a generator to produce electricity. The energy loss in the process is a complete waste. Good batteries completely eliminate the whole pointless hydrogen powered car. The only reason Hydrogen was ever proposed is 1. faster fillups than electric, 2. longer range than electric. With improved batteries, both advantages are eliminated, and hydrogen can be completely shelved, where it should be anyways. Hydrogen is HUGELY wasteful energy wise, measured wind-to-wheel or solar panel-to-wheel, just straight battery electric vehicles will get you 4 times or more miles per generated watt than hydrogen EVER could.
February 27th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Using batteries to crack water and then using Hydrogen to generate power is pointless. Better to run from the battery straight off. The only use for Hydrogen would be in a, high mileage, rapid refuel context; eg buses, taxis, trucks.
#11 Eletruck I agree.
February 27th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Electruk, NZDavid,
I’ll third that one!
Except that by the time Hydrogen would be viable, we’ll have rapid recharge batts, and the infrastructure already exists.
February 27th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Eletruk:
Yeah, you’re right. When the batteries get good enough, if they ever put hydrogen fuel cells into cars, they’ll probably be taken out just like the internal combustion engine for the 2010 Volt eventually will. Hopefully, some of these genius scientists and engineers are going to come up with this inexpensive, 400+ mile range superbattery soon … BEFORE we spend a lot of money on hydrogen R&D and infrastructure.
I’m hoping GM will surprise us and at least come up with a 100 mile range battery for the Volt by 2010-2011. Even a 100 mile range battery would be huge. The U.S. government and the private sector should be spending BIG bucks on battery research. I heard today that gas could be over $4/gallon by spring … and it’s probably only going to get worse in the next 5 years because of all the new drivers around the world. Battery researchers need to “get it in gear” … 3 shifts and people in other time zones … TURBO R&D … whatever it takes. The world needs better batteries fast.
Maybe GM will have standardized battery pack sizes for the Volt that you can easily remove … so “early adopters” can trade in their original battery packs and use that money to pay for “new and improved” 200 mile/300 mile/400 mile ones as the battery technology improves.
Maybe truckers could still use a hydrogen fuel cell when the big rig companies get around to making trucks based on E-REV technology. Maybe they would want the fuel cell as a backup in case they were driving out in the middle of nowhere in Canada or something. Those Caterpillar road graders and bulldozers might want a hydrogen fuel cell … they’re energy guzzlers to say the least.
February 27th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Cobasys has no involvement at all in the Volt program. They are partners with A123 in the PHEV Vue program. Cobasys has no expertise with lithium ion so they partnered with A123 to do the pack integration for the Vue.
February 27th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Sam, #15,
Thanks, that’s what I thought. This is at least the second article I have seen that makes the Chevron-Volt link erroneously. Apparently the press has no idea what they are talking about (but what else is new?)
February 27th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Since Chevron was one of the big reasons for GM destroying their totally electric car, why the Hell would anyone trust anything they say or do. I would be willing to bet they kill the Volt before it is done. Big Oil = Big Bastards.
February 28th, 2008 at 6:22 am
Big oil has the national distribution system in place for any type of “liquid” fuel they can control and which they want to retain. Ethanol, hydrogen or whatever. When you can “plug” your vehicle in at home to “refuel”, you bypass their profit center. They are well aware of this and will everything to derail any EV.
When Linden President was president in the 1970’s, during the energy shortage he promised that 200 nuclear plants would be built to make us energy independent, it never happed. But it did happen in France, which generates 75% of its electrical power from nuclear.
What we need now is a national energy policy, which addresses all forms of energy consumption because our national security is at stake if we fail to do this now.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:09 am
For those who suggest the oil companies are trying to kill the electric car, I really don’t think the oil COMPANIES care if they make their money from selling oil or from selling batteries. They want to make money! The source matters not. They do however want to control it, whatever IT ends up being.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:32 am
SuperSchupp (19)
Sorry but I have to disagree with you on that one, and many others here will too.
Oil companies would only make money from you ONCE if they sold you an EV traction battery, but when they sell you petrol (gas for the Yanks) they make money from you for the rest of the car’s life (and if they get their way, for the rest of YOUR life).
Yes, big oil obviously exists to make money but in order to keep doing that why on earth would they WANT to sell you the keys to their own hand-cuffs?
Maybe later on when the rEVolution has started they’ll have to settle for only making money from you just the one time, and to that end some are hedging their bets by getting/remaining invloved with battery science.
So I’m sorry mate but I firmly BELIEVE in the ’suggestion’ that big oil’s interest in controlling batteries is only to maximise the time period over which they can sell us petrol - or more precisely, the time period over which they can sell YOU petrol - I’ve been running on electrons for over 2 years now .
Cheers!