Grab our RSS Feed
Follow us on:
AND 
AND
About 10,000 Volts will be Produced in the First Year
February 24th, 2008 | Posted in: Production
There have been discussions about how many Volts GM plans to produce at first. We have heard before that as many as 60,000 could be built and more recently that tens of thousands were intended to be built.
In a recently published article by the Globe and Mail, GM vice-chair Bob Lutz gave a much more specific prodcution plan. He said:
“Volt will be about 10,000 units the first year, just to make sure we’re prepared for any issues that might come up, and then ramp up production from there,” and “So we’re not going to see a wholesale move to electric vehicles right away.”
He was implying that there will be development issues in need of optimization before full mass production could take place.
Source (Globe and Mail)
Thanks to James F. for the tip!
Posted by: Lyle
92 Responses to “About 10,000 Volts will be Produced in the First Year”
Leave a Reply
Recent Posts
- New York Times Report on the Chevy Volt Generator Mode Driving Experience
- CNBC Test Drive of the Chevy Volt in Charge Sustaining Mode
- Chevy Volt Will be Able to Hit 104 MPH
- Chevy Volt and Battery Program Update
- GM to Announce Initial Volt Markets at LA Auto Show
- Coalition of Industry Leaders Releases Roadmap to get 120 Million Electric Cars on US Roads by 2030
- Op-Ed: GM Reports a $1.2 Billion Loss, but Has the Cash To See Volt Well into Production and Beyond
- Three Chevy Volt Paint Color Finalists Announced
- What BMW Has Learned from the MINI E Program So Far: That They May Need to Build EREVs
- GM: EVs are Cool, but EREV’s are Really Cool
Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts
- Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud? November 20, 2009This is how open minded liberals operate. "And, perhaps most reprehensibly," Delingpole writes, "a long series of communications discussing how best... […]BigCityCat
- Is the Volt Engine Direct Injected? November 20, 2009I recently read that the Cruze's engine will be DI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Cruze#Chevrolet_Cruze Obviously the Cruze's engine will... […]omnimoeish
- First Reports of the Chevy Volt's Charge-Sustaining (Generator) Mode Operation November 20, 2009The first two journalists' reports of what it's like to drive the Chevy Volt while in generator mode operation have been published. 1) New York... […]admin
- Florida giving $5000 rebate to convert Prius to plug-in November 20, 2009- Probably Hymotion - $10,400 standard price - $5000 state rebate - $1000 additional federal incentives - $4,400 final cost. Hurry because their... […]Texas
- New York Times CSM story November 20, 2009Link to the New York Times story of November 19, 2009 about a test ride of the Volt in charge sustaining... […]srschrier
- New video: Volt drive in Detroit November 19, 2009November 19, 2009 Detroit Free Press story with video featuring a Volt drive with Andrew Farah in... […]srschrier
- New Video: Volt Corrosion Testing November 18, 2009From GM VoltAge, the Volt's corrosion... […]srschrier
GM-Volt.com is not affiliated with General Motors Company
All contents copyright 2007-2009 GM-Volt.com, LLC - All Rights Reserved
Home | Contact | Privacy Policy | About | Back to Top
February 24th, 2008 at 7:02 am
The source article in the Globe & Mail is almost entirely about diesels and contains some surprising (to me) items, such as…..
“BMW is using the experience it has with diesel engines in Europe, where 67 per cent of the vehicles it sells are diesels, to introduce the award-winning twin-turbocharged, six-cylinder, clean-diesel engine to the 3-Series sedan and to the X5 SUV to North America by this fall. That will give BMW’s smallest sedan 420 lb-ft of torque in the 335d, or only three lb-ft less than the gargantuan 6.0-litre V-12 found in BMW’s 760Li, its largest and priciest full-size luxury four-door.”
The article’s “snippet” quoting Bob Lutz on the Volt, in the context of this fairly detailed article that’s ONLY about diesels otherwise, leads me to wonder if the coming “North American invasion by diesels” may be a contributing factor in GM’s apparent decision to limit Volt production to ~10,000 the first year. Diesels are how Europe is dealing with high petrol prices of up to ~$9/gal. And GM might want to see if diesels catch on here like in Europe, and if so, whether they will negatively impact the Volt’s market appeal.
Here’s the brief item in the article about Volt production: “GM’s vice-chairman and product chief Bob Lutz said the Volt and other E-Flex plug-in electric series hybrids are a long way off from high-volume production…..”
“Volt will be about 10,000 units the first year, just to make sure we’re prepared for any issues that might come up, and then ramp up production from there,” Lutz told a group of auto journalists, noting that there were still significant development issues to overcome before the technology could be optimized for mass market use. “So we’re not going to see a wholesale move to electric vehicles right away.”
This makes me wonder if GM is worried that diesels could become enough of a marketing fad that they’ll largely eclipse the Volt and E-FLEX as a whole. In any case, this is the first indication I’ve seen that GM is hedging their bet —for whatever reason(s).
Could my toy Volt wind up becoming my ONLY Volt for more years than I had hoped?!?
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:17 am
It sure is sounding that way, Nasaman. It may only be referring to 2010 production, not 2011. Time will tell.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Both BAS and Two-Mode rollout have taken longer than originally hoped. Learning a lesson from those experiences and planning accordingly makes sense… especially when you become aware of just how long that will make order delivery. Knowing ahead of time that you may see Volts on the road a whole year before you get your own helps.
Just look at Prius history. The 6-month waits were a challenge for some and a deterrent for others. But at least they knew what they faced ahead of time. It’s a bitter reality though.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Considering all the interim shortcuts GM is taking to make sure the Chevy Volt gets released as early as possible, this makes great sense.
Moreover, the low volume allows GM to sell the Volt at a higher price to all the early adopters – hopefully, they will sell it “at cost”. I don’t believe businesses should suffer for doing the right thing.
I expect that the second year design will not contain all the short-cuts, will fold in lessons learned from the first year, and might even be cheaper to build.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 9:41 am
That’s just not enough! I better get one in Ohio!
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:08 am
There it is fellas.
10,000
“…Volt and other E-Flex plug-in electric series hybrids are a long way off from high-volume production”
Niche.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Bob likes to back-peddle a lot. We thought GM was doing the volt for global warming, and foreign oil. Lutz was quick to clarify that, and I’m not going to start the global warming thing here though. Then Lutz says it should be coming in comfortabily under $30k, now it’s $35k. Now Lutz says 60k units the 1st year, now it’s 10k. Does this IDIOT know anything? Does he also need help in the bathroom? (wiping his butt?) Seriously, he’s the head cheese, and it sounds like he don’t know s**t!!!! Maybe he should retire, I believe he’s suffering from Alzheimer’s, or maybe he likes pi**ing us off.. Probably a bit of both.
Nasaman, I sure hope we can get one the 1st year, but I don’t know about you, but the light was bright, with all he good GM claimed, but now it’s getting pretty dim. It may come out, but who’s to say it won’t be nothing more than a glorified Geo Metro. Big oil probably called him up, and said something like: You know, we don’t like what your doing, so don’t make so many the 1st year, and claim there’s MANY problems with them, that way nobody will purchase any. Then we’ll slightly increase volume up to maybe 15k units/year working out the bugs….
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:17 am
I guess I’d be dreaming to think the first 10,000 +/- Volts would go to some of the people who have been following it’s progress in this site. The article wiped the smile I had right off my face!
Mark
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:20 am
The FUTURE of cars will mirror the history of the desktop computer. Every year you will see improvements over previous year models. Faster… better and eventually cheaper but not initially.
Luckily for me I am not in the market for a car like the volt. I follow GM-Volt.com because it is the beginning of the cars of the future. We have had hint and peeks from other companies (ie Tesla etc) but 2010 will be the dawning of a new day in the automotive world. GM isn’t the only one headed toward the Extended Range or All electric vehicle and 2010 seems to be the year that the movement will be able to be tracked at the production phase and not the development phase.
Todays GM-volt update tells me that GM already knows they will have a ton of improvements to implement that just won’t be ready for prime time the first year. I would imagine that the NEW price is a direct reflection of GM making the conscious decision to purposly scale back production because they don’t have time to work out known improvements/bugs/fixes before late 2010.
This brings up a seperate issue. 2010 is a long long ways away and the buracracy and red tape in getting things done at most huge corporations opens the door for someone to prempt the volt.
Are the Japanese and Koreans really going to not develop a Volt killer when they know they have until late 2010 ( really late 2011 now) to do it. Will the death of GM be because in the slowness in getting a good product to market? Will the headlines for GM in 2012 be “To Little To Late”?
I refuse to believe it SHOULD take this long to get a decent product to market. The batteries will be freaking ready but GM is too slow and bloated to get the rest of the car finished properly by then????
Sounds like a great idea but too much red tape. GM is out the blocks first but is too fat to carry the lead to the finish line as the leaner meaner Honda and Toyota and a handful of chinese and Korean automakers blow by them the last 20 yards.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Hey remember this?
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/10/31/massive-breaking-news-gm-receives-first-chevy-volt-lithium-ion-battery-packs-from-lg-chem/
or this?
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/11/16/more-bob-lutz-volt-q-a/
Good times…and comments that are only 3 months old.
They have been flat out lying to us. I wish I was going to New York now for the ‘Volt’ get together…should be exciting.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:45 am
I sure a lot of people regardless on this site or not would agree with me. GM was flat out stupid for killing the EV1. They had the heater, wipers, stereo, and GOOD batteries!!!! GM is dragging along, about as slow as a snail. They really don’t want this. IF they would of kept the EV program going instead of the P.O.S. Hummer line, they could of had a BIG jump over Toyota.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Hey Statik, I wish I could go to, but they probably wouldn’t like me waltzing in with a baseball bat..
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Highly disappointing we have more than 10,000 on our wait list alone, how many by 2010?
After EV1 and GM claiming that it was the battery holding things up, I believed that is was a simple matter of engineering to get the rest right. Diesel is just no comparison to REEV. I hope that by first year 2010 was meant (up to 31 Dec) not the model year.
If your driving habits are over 100 miles a day, then diesel makes sense. If your driving habits are less than 100 miles a day then REEV makes sense.
Otherwise it looks like GM wants early adopters to pay a large premium and be beta testers. This may make sense for reducing risk, but there is a risk of not doing something too — like another manufacturer will come along and eat their lunch.
On the other hand I am skeptical of what many reporters write, too many get their facts wrong.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Disappointing, but let’s not close up shop and go home just yet. 100,000 vehicles the first year may not be the best approach anyway. Remember the Fiero? 136,000 units the first year, and GM expected to sell that many every year. It’s not going to happen for a niche vehicle, which the Volt will be initially.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Ok, I sound pretty negative….and give the events I think it is justified (under 30k to maybe 40K, dumbed down restyle, 100K to 60K to 10K production). It’s true, but my comments were coming from a general public point of view.
Personally now:
I AM ALL OVER IT NOW! This car is a collector…how much would you love a EV1 right now? How much would it be worth? How cool would it be.
GM, you fabulous bastard! You got everyone all excited for this. You are only going to see a few copies to the early adopters and celebrities again…I know you, hehe — I know your game. You got the PR ‘GREEN RUSH” and look at all your Malibu-Vue-Tahoe-Yukon (soon Sierra-Silverado) Hybrid sales from it…nice work!
Hook up that depost/wait list baby! I’m ready to commit the moment I see it. Just don’t pull the Michigan/California only-lease trick on me.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:09 am
If GM is bothered about how many it will be able to sell, and that is the reason for reducing the production target there are many practical solutions to that…
1) Have a GM Volt credit card with the rewards counting ONLY towards purchase of a Volt within 1st year of production. Maybe only counting towards optional extras rather than base price.
2) Open up a deposit scheme. I’ll write a 10K check today.
3) Look to Uncle Sam to purchase slack. If you look up HR 2112 on thomas.loc.gov you’ll find a bill for US gov to purchase 50,000 vehicles. I say a better solution is for US gov to purchase one vehicle for every vehicle sold to the public if there is insufficient demand in the first year. Effectively soaking up over production if there is less demand than expected. But allowing public to get them first.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:20 am
And you know they will probably only be on sale in Southern California.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Keep in mind people, that this is the company that spearheaded the death of the CARB ZEV mandate and the associated electric vehicles. Be very careful believing much about whatever they say concerning what great new gas saving technology is “just around the corner”. I’ll believe it when i see it.
Diesels are just another way to keep us hooked on oil to maintain the insanely huge Big Oil profits, at least until they’ve sucked the reserves dry. Then, of course, I suppose electric vehicles will be entirely doable.
Just came from the Toronto car show. The only companies that seem to be honestly addresing the over-comsumptiveness of regular cars are Toyota and Honda with their Hybrids that are available for purchase right now. The rest, just seem to be boasting about some insignificant gains on thier present models and, of course showing “concepts” of hybrids and electrics whose technology we should already be driving.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:37 am
10,000 Volts
10,000 GM-Volt .com participants
Works for me
I’m more interested in what they have planned for 2015.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:39 am
#16 Mark Bartosick
Thats just it, they don’t want to produce this thing. They want the hype, and they got it. Just watch them at the auto shows, lol. The hype this car generated is selling the beejeebus out of the hybrid line for them. GM looks credible now. Sure I’ll buy that ‘hybrid’ pickup truck that gets a extra 3MPG…WTF?
Think about it…they are cutting production already to 10K and saying no future plans to mass production. CUT? What, already? They have no wait list! They have no place to put down your $$$! They don’t even want to know how many people want this car.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:44 am
More bad news?! I feel like there’s no hope for this vehicle. It’s just one disappointment after another.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I signed a peition to bring the Mitsubishi MiEV to the U.S., which is slated for productionin 2009. This is the fist full-blown EV from a major manufacturer. If GM doesn’t produce it, someone will. I suggest everyone here sign the petition as well:
http://www.petitiononline.com/iMiEV/petition.html
GM has got to compete for our business, and 10,000 Volts that may show up in 2010 or 2011 for about $35K is not as appealing to me as a 100 mile range EV here in 2009 for $24K. Granted it isn’t as pretty and practical, but I’m sick of burning oil.
I will have my EV in two years!
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Hate to inject a little realism when you guys are having so much fun with conspiracy theories and looking to Asia to save the world, but I believe this is about liability exposure. This technology is such new territory, and it is being rushed to market, that there could be significant problems after release. Now which would you rather have to do, a recall on 10,000 cars or 100,000 cars? What if the batteries do catch fire and they just sold 60,000 cars? A recall like that could really hurt GM at a vulnerable point. It is far more likely that Bob got a call from the accounting and legal departments than from some Oil fat cat in a dark smoke filled room.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Bob (if you’re listening),
I am not a GM fan. I’ve never bought a GM vehicle, not even a used one. I don’t really see myself buying one in the future, with one caveat: I you come out with the Volt and other eFlex cars/trucks (that I can plug in) I can 95% guarantee you that will own 2 and never look back. When I heard about the Volt and learned that you were forging ahead with these ground breaking ideas, I was (am) really impressed and excited that an American car company was going to lead the entire industry into the future. If you’re having production problems with the new technologies, I can understand, and am rooting for you, but if you’re just jerking my chain and playing games here, then every bad thing I’ve heard about GM will be confirmed.
Am I alone here? Am I the only one that thinks this way? When I read that 60% of Americans won’t buy a domestic car, I see that I’m not.
The bottom line is that I will buy a plug in car, one way or another. I hope it’s one that is conceived, designed tested and produced in Michigan. If you can’t or won’t pull it off, I’ll guess I’ll be buying a Prius after all.
make the pledge
http://www.pluginpartners.org/whatYouCanDo/onlinePetition.cfm
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
1. GM is fighting toyota and every other Car Co. out there so you would be foolish to think that they are going to release production numbers until the first Volt are roll down the line .Case in point I live in BG KY home of the Corvette, even the plant employees have no idea what the new horsepower & style changes or production numbers are going to be , until the first units are rolling down the line . Just Makes sense.
2. Brand New Technology , comes with Brand new problems , you don’t make 100,000 volt’s and throw them on the road just to find out that One of the three or four CPU”s fail causing a melt down issue after 35,000 miles in 15% of the Cars .
3. 2011 is a every nice goal date , Don’t freak out production could easily be mid 2012 or early 2013 . A car that will change the way the world does things will take time and is worth the wait.
4. You will find out the real price a couple of weeks before the Volt hit the show room floor.
5.Mr Lutz job is to get the Volt on he road and make GM a profit . Thats It.
6. Sure is fun thinking about the future.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Pull at straws, pulls at straws.
I wonder if people continue to defend GM because of a fierce and intense desire to own a Volt…or just because they don’t want to be wrong.
Some people should look back at their old posts where they literally ‘tear others a new one’ for making GM accountable for their actions.
Maybe those people should be start apologizing rather than continuing to try and make up ridiculous stories about hypothetical secret ‘future actions’ or consequences that in no way can be confirmed or denied.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
In case you were wondering … here’s the guy heading the development of the Volt … Frank Weber.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/BUSINESS01/802240692
He might have one of the most interesting jobs in America … developing what I hope is a smash hit electric car that even the hardcore car guys at Motor Trend and Car and Driver will rave about.
Hopefully, the Volt is going to be the “game changing” car that finally helps us deal with our addiction to foreign oil, saves us money at the pump, and doesn’t affect the environment as much. I bet the Volt is the first of many car and truck models based on its technology.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
10,000 Volt’s in the first year…lets hope that we can actually BUY them, and NOT lease them. We don’t want another EV1 disaster and no one will buy the Volt if there is even the slightest hint of another “Lease/take back/destroy” model they used before..
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Uggh, that means the dealers are going to gouge the crap out of everyone. A friend of mine paid a 10k premium for his Honda (s2000?).
I will be first in line but I will pay not a penny more than sticker for this thing.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
What a bunch of cry babys….It`s the me first crowd..
Gm has the whole company to think about not just the Volt..How about the thousands of cars on show room floors or the thousands on the production lines…Saying they will produce 100,000 volts the first year, they might as well just cut there own throats…They might just make 100,000.. But I would not tell anyone…Their motto should …Volt what Volt..I don`t have to show you no stinking Volt….
Ed Noble
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
I would prefer to see GM roll out the Chevy Volt, sticking their toes in the water, with a low volume first run, to determine market response.
I suspect that they would sell more E-Flex vehicles if they installed it in their hot selling Chevy Malibu, than ramping up the Chevy Volt.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
RE Voltman
I’m with you on that. I’ll be one of the first in the queue, and will offer GM a $10K deposit now sight unseen. But I’m very unlikely to pay more than a few hundred dollars above sticker price. A dealer offers me very little added value, I know what car I want, so the dealer show room is a waste of space for me.
If there is an under supply I would rather see a national Internet based auction. That way at least GM gets the extra dollars not the dealer. After all it is GM that is taking the risk here, not the dealers.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Classic GM mistake. Making 10,000 of the most widely anticipated car in the history of automobiles.
This is crazy. Lyle – tell them to get this thing fixed and make more units — many more units.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
#16 is right — if GM is worried about being able to sell them, they should let the buying public prove that the car will be a sucess before they start building.
I’ve said it before – pre-sell the car now. Set up a display at Disney World, Las Vegs, NYC, LA, Chicago and Detroit (as well as internet) and let people plunk down a non-refundable $500 for the right to buy. When the car comes out, if they don’t buy, they loose $500 to GM.
The idea about the Volt only GM credit card is another great idea. If you make it available alongside a GM card, and a bunch of people sign up and start using it exclusively, then GM has a form of answer in that data.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
10k Volt’s ,… how utterly disappointing and disgusting.
I hope this doesn’t mean GM is back peddling on their commitment going electric and getting US off of oil.
Hey guys, we are all speculating what is going on with GM.
Lyle, we need GM to explain to US, some of their biggest boosters at least for the Volt, their reason for saying 10k when they were saying 60k units the first year. Try to get Bob to give GM’s rationale. Otherwise without some explanation there are lots of angry people out there. We need to know why? Is GM loosing so much they need the revenue of 5 more years of conventional auto production?
I can understand trying to mitigate risk, so they only have 10k cars to recall rather than 60K as DaV8or #23 says.
Since the referenced article was primarily about diesel I would be ok with a diesel for the generator rather than a gas ICE, but get US the Volt.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I don’t think it’s any surprise that they would drop the target number being being built after raised the target price. A lot less folks will be able to afford the up front cost (even though overall cost of ownership over the life of the car is likely to be less), another group of folks who could afford it with that price will take a wait and see approach, and for all we know, GM is expecting by the time they roll out the Volt, to have more competition in this market niche segment.
10,000 is still an impressive number however given no other single EV that we know of to date plans a yearly production run that large.
And the so called “wait lists”, that’s worth the paper it’s written on… ie. nothing. GM is not taking reservations so good luck trying to get GM to honor it.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Just a follow up to one of the 3 reasons I gave for the (sharp) downward revision of their 1st year production quota… ie. competition in what is still likely to be a niche part of the market…
I just ran across http://venturebeat.com/2008/01/10/27-electric-cars-companies-ready-to-take-over-the-road/ and 2010/2011 could be an interesting time for us fans of EV’s.
Also curious if anyone ordered one of these “The Zotye – North Americas First Affordable Full-Speed Electric Vehicle!” from SparkEV. Reading the info they are actually doing these as conversions of this ICE based SUV. They claim it’s out this year for $20k! Though I wonder how few they can do a year as it says they are not taking any more orders. See http://www.spark-ev.com/zotye.html … 110 mile range using 2,900 Lipoly cells (sounds Tesla type approach), with a software limited max speed of 75mph. Depending on further details, sounds like a great deal for $20k!
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Hey folks:
It’s February 2008, right? It a long time till late 2010. I will believe nothing I read (especially online mags ) until about mid 2010.
People are asking questions GM can’t or won’t answer for awhile. I don’t care what Mr. Lutz or anyone else says right now. Everything we are discussing may be moot in 4 weeks let alone 2 years!
GM is working on a new paradigm. No one else truely is. The sarcasm and pessimism here is amusing. I would imagine most of it is from people who have never really believed GM would or could do this. So if it makes you happy to think you have been “proven right”, knock yourself out.
In reality, we know very little about what is going on, and I’m sure GM wants it this way. The stakes are too high for anything less. One thing I do believe, they have spent a TON of money on this already. That says volumes.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
#33 Jeff M. Exactly right. The two go hand in hand. High price will only sell as a niche vehicle; don’t bother to produce more.
Add in the reality that, despite Fulop’s assurances to the contrary, building up the capacity to produce this kind of battery volume from near naught in that time window is an unlikely target to achieve.
Finally the fact is that no manufacturer knows what kind of tax credit help they’ll getm (if any) for selling these things until a new administration has a chance to do their thing.
It’s time for every good bean counter to hedge their bets. The prudent decision is to try to milk the early adopters then build up capacity and lower the price. The bold decision would be to get ahead of the competition, to salvage GMs reputation from a dinosaur into a company of the future. But GM is not so bold after all and it is hard for a dinosaur to evolve quickly.
Oh well. Consider it a 2011 to 2012 launch for a real mass market car with a year or so for on the road testing with “early adopters.”
EREVs PHEVs and BEVs are going to be on the road. GM may not get the prize and may end up slowly fading away as an irrelevant company, or they may be part of the change. But either way the change is afoot.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Hey, all of this is to confuse it’s competitors. That’s I would do if I ran a business. Toyota also does the same thing.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Reducing the production in the first year will lower the pressure on the supply chain. In particular, the battery suppliers will be able to gear up their production at a more reasonable pace. Each Volt will have quite a few battery cells. Suppose each Volt has 100 cells in its battery pack. That would mean 1,000,000 cells would be required for the first year of production.
And, remember that GM is building the Volt for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is to improve its technology reputation and its environmental reputation (Bob’s comments notwithstanding!). Having the Volt on the market is all they need to accomplish the reputation change.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
We know that they spent a billion to develop the car. Interest on 1 billion is 50 million per year. That’s $5000 per car they intend to build in the first year just on interest to do the research and that doesn’t touch the principle. The cost of this car is research and development and interest. If they intend to build 100,000 over 10 years, they will have about $15,000 per vehicle in research, development and interest — that can’t work. Consumers wont pay that.
They need to build and sell 100,000 in the first year, assigning $10,000 to each car to recoup the development cost. Then, in the second year, they can start earning a profit of $10,000 per vehicle without changing the price. They ought to be able to do that, but for some reason, they just don’t want to. It’s inconceivable to me that they are making a business decision to make 10,000 units — that just doesn’t make any sense.
I’m mad over this.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I agree with #35 MetrologyFirst.
GM is not going to put all of their cards on the table at this time.
And as far as a “niche” vehicle, because of the cost, has everyone forgot that you can lease a vehicle for a pretty reasonable price?
Even though I have never leased, in this case I might consider it, especially since it is such a new type of vehicle. I think about every time I bought into new technology, such as computers, CD’s, DVD’s, LCD screens, etc. I paid a high price, and then within a year or two, they introduce new models with twice the features at half the price. That may well happen with the Gen-1 Volt. So if I lease for two or three years, I can turn that back in and then buy the newer and better model. But I still had the advantages of driving an E-REV.
And as far as today’s “Lutism Comment”, I truly believe that Mr. Lutz is just testing the waters to see what we really think.
And don’t forget that 250 of you will get to ask about many of these things in just a few weeks. Maybe you should start a list on the forum, so you don’t all keep asking the same 10 questions over and over.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Hmmm,
GM could at least aspire to equal the Prius first year sales which were 18,000 I believe.
Im sure the Japanese engineers felt nervous as well.
mutter mutter mutter…
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
10,000 or 60,000 to market in 2010; either way, GM gets E-REV bragging rights. However, limiting liabilty by limiting production will limit sales, at least in my case. You see, my wifey wants to replace our junker ASAFP. I keep selling her on waiting for the Volt concept to come to fruition. I tell her that, in 2010, I can buy an E-REV for $30k. I can’t hold her off beyond 2010. If GM doesn’t make it happen on time, I’ve got to buy something else. Even a 10-mile would work for me, my commute is not far. A plug-in would eliminate trips to the fueling station. A diesel engine wouldn’t eliminate those trips for me.Toyota will probably have a reasonably-priced plug-in widely available by 2010. I’ll probably go that route. I tend to keep my cars for many years. So, I won’t get around to buying a Volt for many years.
My daily commuter doesn’t need to be fancy. If GM keeps it simple for the first production run, they can expect fewer problems. If they can expect fewer problems, they can feel more confident about a larger production run. I would much rather have a Volt now, even if it design deficiencies emerge. If a recall should occur, I would understand, given the rush to production. I wouldn’t complain as long as GM fixed my Volt in a reasonable timeframe and without a poor attitude. I hope Volt testing gives GM the confidence they need to produce many no-frills Volts right away.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
#44 – get a two year lease on a small car, save some gas and apply money save to the Volt in 2 years.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Yeah, GM is just ‘testing’ us. LOL. They have a secret plan to make all our dreams come true!
I’m sure all the recent bad press is just so we’ll have a really big surprise in the future. Or maybe they want to throw a wrench at the Prius, which is only RIGHT NOW ramping to it’s production line to produce 500,000 copies a year for the 09s.
I’m sure 60,000 of us will all be driving around in 2010 in our under $30,000 Volt, that looks just like the concept.
/reality check time
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I recall reading last year that the Volt was only going to be 10 K units in the first year and only sold in Michigan. The second year would be 60K units, the third up to the market. So nothing new here.
As far as the article goes, well thats the beauty of the E-Flex design. If oil burners are what people want, and not E85, then the Volt will have a diesel generator instead of a gasoline generator. Its just a generator to change NOT the whole drive train.
Personally I think given the hangups everyone here has with initial pricing, GM should send the whole 10K units to N.Z. (R/H drive please), a good fit for our market size, far enough away to slip under the radar while fixing start up bugs, and a different currency so when ramp up complete could market the 60K production to US customers as a new market.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
#43 NZDavid
Really, you read 10K units in first year and only sold in Michigan? Link please!
You might have read someone hear optimistically postulating that they might only produce 10,000 in calender year 2010. You will never see this car in NZ. Just like we never see all those crazy Euro gas sippers in NA.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Also, how is there ANY bragging rights for GM if they put out 10,000 cars in 2011?
Tesla is already delievering FULL electric cars to ACTUAL CUSTOMERS! The roadster has 52 scheduled deliveries by March 30…and 650 by years end (all sold). 1,800 in 09. The sedan (at 50K) is scheduled to start actually PRODUCING cars to the customer in 2009…hey guess how many? Yupe 10,000. BTW. Tesla started a whole company and got to market on 60 million…they just got another 40 to finance building the sedan.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Lyle
I note the wait list has more people on it (12800+) than initial production.
So, as it is illegal for GM to receive deposits for a product that does not yet exist, how about you collecting deposits of $250.00 per person to test the real commitment of ‘wait listers’ to the Volt?
The service you will provide for our $250 is to hand the entire list & a check to Bob Lutz (or whoever) by 2011, or earlier. Place the money in a separate interest bearing account and use the interest to fund GM-Volt.com. You will have two lists then. The current one “wanna bes and could bes” and “true believers”.
How about it?
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
#45
I’ll have to hunt for the link.
I point out that Tesla is also starting production slowly (650 year one) then ramping up in the second year as you point out.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
This is obviously one of the problems with openly sharing the development details of a vehicle. If this had been done behind closed doors and 10K were produced the first year no one would have uttered a peep.
Delta is the MO whenever you’re on the cutting edge and especially so when you allow the public to track your progress.
Ok, not only will there be many more roller coasters in the next 2.5-3+ years but I’m going to predict total success for GM nonetheless. This is the right thing to do, and it MUST and will be done!
Remember that the glass is ALWAYS half FULL despite what might be said as it’s being filled.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
#47 NZDavid
Fair enough. I am willing to conceed to that point.
(=
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
This is a good a move after all. I want GM to get very very familiar with the Volt first before they ramp production. I hope Lyte gets one of those 10k Volts. Then we all will know all the details about in a fair and balance way while the rest of us wait for our.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
About 12 months from now the next generation Prius will hit the marketplace. And if the rumors prove true, it will be ideally suited for conversion via a Hymotion kit to a PHEV. Able to travel 60 miles per hour in EV mode only, and with the mod able to go more than 25 miles in EV mode, we will have a way to avoid the pump. The question we must ask is why wait to at least 2011 and perhaps longer? Say it costs $24,000 and the kit adds another $12,000 for a total of $36,000 for the real deal.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
The Tesla is a niche car. Once the well-to-do early adopters get their fill of the Tesla it will be done.
The Hymotion kit is not yet available for sale, at appears to me from reading their website.
So we are comparing two mythical cars. Until the Volt and plug in Prius are in showrooms and available for purchase we will just be bench racing them.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Van # 51
All I ever dream about are theoretical Prius modifications and rumors. It’s because of these that I haven’t slept in quite some time.
One thing I share with GM is that I haven’t sunk BILLIONS into that ridiculous “hybrid” flywheel/tranny/crappola that Toyota is now saddled with.
The VOLT will be produced regardless of what Toyota and it’s pundits think or say. CAPICHE ?
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
A new interview with the Volt’s Chief Engineer appeared as a feature story in the Sunday February 24, 2008 edition of the Detroit Free Press, looks encouraging: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/BUSINESS01/802240692
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
#37 MetrologyFirst – well said.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
If we want GM to produce more Volts early on them we need to get the federal government to share in the 10 year warranty on batteries that no one will have tested for ten years.
If you were in GM’s financial position, would you risk warrantying 100,000 cars with $5,000 batteries ($0.5 Billion)?
While the governments at it, they should create some new jobs here by guaranteeing the loans to build our own on-shore battery production facilities.
Finally, rebates of at least $5,000 a car should be made available.
The net benefits to the government, industry and customers will all be far greater than the cost. Anything that reduces our dependence on imported oil, reduces our global warming footprint and creates jobs can’t be all bad.
Within a few years, we will have lines again at gas stations. Then the demand for Volts will become insatiable. Will GM be ready?
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Geez, why is everyone getting so worked up.
As has been discusses, many components are new and very different from existing designs that are massed produced. Clearly they cannot have the sufficient production level of all the component ready in a couple of years. What a surprise?!?! Duh.
As pointed out, battery pack is big. It has many cells, so number become very bug very fast. My guess is that the battery pack production is holding back Volt production level. There is a big difference between making a 10 cell pack for laptop computers and several hundred cells pack for a car.
I never did expect a large production run from the start and always assumed that the 60K estimate was simply an ambitious target. Which by the way is the standard practice for all projects. You always make ambitious overly optimistic targets, then miss deadlines. Happens in software industry all the time. Just see Windows Vista as an example.
Don’t read too much into every single statement. Keep in mind that a lot of numbers are ambitious targets. Some are “hard” targets that cannot be compromised (such as 40 mile range) while others are “soft” targets (like 60K production).
So cut them some slack and relax. They have a tough job and some things won’t go according to plan. That is life.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
I think Lyle might have accidently dropped a “0″ off the total number of released units. :>)
Seriously, there will be more than 40,000 people on the waiting list by the time the Volt is released and these 10,000 units will be long sold before any of us get a chance to see them in the showroom :>(
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
If you go to the car museum, you will find the first cars produced in 1900-04 were all electric. Now, back then people didn’t drive to far, and,batteries were nowhere as good as they are now, . Gasoline was a bi-produce of producing oil for other purposes,and the gasoline was dumped into rivers since they didn’t know what to do with it. When the combustion engine was invented, the electric cars dissapeared. In over a hundred years since then, you would think they could have done something different
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
#54
Haid! How are you doing? Long time, it’s me. Good to see you. It’s Hous, You remember? Houis Bin Pharteen
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
>> One thing I share with GM is that I haven’t sunk BILLIONS into that ridiculous
>> “hybrid” flywheel/tranny/crappola that Toyota is now saddled with.
Share with who?
GM has a FULL hybrid too… called Two-Mode.
As for your lack of understanding how it works, try to focus on purpose instead. You’ll discover just how much they have in common with Volt.
(Quote)
February 24th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Also, don’t forget about Ford.
Their next generation FULL hybrid system will be available this fall.
Between Camry-Hybrid and Fusion-Hybrid, GM will be in a position to push Volt progress pretty hard. Why not be an ally in the effort to replace traditional vehicles?
Large volume at affordable prices is the point… right?
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 1:06 am
#49 Statik
If my point was about who got an electric car to market first (that wasn’t my point), It wasn’t Tesla. As
Jimee#10 said, in response #61, “If you go to the car museum, you will find the first cars produced in 1900-04 were all electric.” Yes, Tesla has sold electric cars. They might even deliver a few. But, Tesla is unlikely to penetrate the market with their $100k roadster and their $50 to $70k sedan as much as an affordable, plug-in from Toyota or GM (or Volvo). Let’s face it. The real show, the big leagues , concerns the Toyota/GM race to make plug-ins main stream. Whoever does that gets bragging rights by being first to market.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 1:10 am
I haven’t read all of the comments, so sorry if anyone has mentioned this. I would expect a limited release at first, in a concentrated area. GM will probably have to train their dealers to service and repair the Volt, and they sure won’t be able to train everyone all at once.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 2:42 am
GM is holding their cards close to their chest? Yeah, right. GM’s been tossing cards in all directions for months now. GM is continuously giving information that even they don’t really know. These are not the actions of a serious company intent on building a serious product.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… the Volt’s biggest advantage is that it doesn’t exist. 100,000 –> 60,000 –> 10,000 units, 2010–>2011, well under $30K –> Sub $30K –> $30K+, 40 mile range –> 40 mile range no AC/heater –> 40 mile range no windshield wipers/Stereo (J/K, I think
… watch the downward spiral continue as reality hits.
And to think that just a short while ago some on this site were claiming that GM had actually jumped in front of Toyota.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 3:36 am
Thing is the Volt doesn’t even exist yet as a mule as GXT said so LOTS of things can change from now to 2010/2011. So don’t expect too many firm things that won’t change. I don’t think GM is wrong to ramp up production though as it IS new tech and a new car; very similar to how Tesla is slowly ramping production but they are doing so more because it is their first car.
#65 Thomdbhom
I’m a Tesla fan; I also feel you are right that the roadster & the $50-60k sedan won’t penetrate the main auto market as a plug-in like Toyota or GM can. However, I feel that they will do more than just “deliver a few.” I know $100k sounds a lot to most of us normal people, but don’t forget you have plenty of porsches, MBenz, BMWs, (IE 911, M6, CL class, CLK63) that sell @ ~$100k too, selling way more than 2000 units per year (some even reach 9000 unit mark in US). Sounds ridiculous but some US people have tons of money to throw at sports cars.
Don’t bash me though, as I am very for the development of the Volt and I hope it will be released on time.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 9:00 am
It’s not that GM is only producing 10K the first year, it’s GM releasing incorrect information and then back peddling. GM has contradicted itself time and time again and everyone on this site defends them. That’s your right to do so but why do you constantly defend a company that lies and lies and lies to you. Statik you told it like it is:
Some people should look back at their old posts where they literally ‘tear others a new one’ for making GM accountable for their actions.
Maybe those people should be start apologizing rather than continuing to try and make up ridiculous stories about hypothetical secret ‘future actions’ or consequences that in no way can be confirmed or denied.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I hear a lot of frustration, and I feel it too. I always bought american, supported the unions which make up about 1 in 7 jobs just from the car market alone, and hate to see more good paying jobs go away, which will affect all of us. But what really urks me, is how all the U.S. manufacturers of cars, bought interest in foreign car companys to compete with their own cars here. I can’t see where the idea came from that they have to build the perfect car the first year. Many other models were produced and the public lived with them. ( Vega, Pinto,etc.) If the price is right and the car works close to what they want, everything will be just fine. Every car ever made, has flaws. Just ask any Big three mechanic, and they will tell you almost every car they work on is in for the same repairs. They never worried about this before, so why now.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 9:43 am
“john1701a
As for your lack of understanding how it works, try to focus on purpose instead. You’ll discover just how much they have in common with Volt.”
Who has in common with the Volt? What are you talking about?
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 10:14 am
At this point in time, GM can not afford to have another Vega disaster. That would end E-REV type vehicles for GM. This car has to be right as of serial #1.
I have heard a lot of people say that if the Volt has defects, they will put up with them, but does anyone really believe that? They will be yelling loud and clear that “For $35K, this car should work!!”. And I believe that is a justified comment. I know that I do not want to buy this car and have to see it in the shop for extended periods of time to fix problems that should have been caught and corrected before production began.
And from GM’s point of view, they do not want to have to replace 100,000 battery packs at $10K each, or major sub system components after only a few years.
As far as everything else in this thread, our only other option it to have everyone at GM become very tight lipped about this project, so that they can no longer be accused of lying to everyone. Then when the car is released with a final set of specs, it will be what it will be. Is that what you want?
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Problems with the Volt… Aren’t the “mules” hitting the streets shortly? If so… the test “pilots” should be driving the heck out of them… punishing it at every turn….abuse 10 times worse than the average motorist can accomplish in 10 years of driving… in a very short time span…. You will see the flaws….errors….or areas of the car that have to be looked at and addressed…Give one to me… I could probably give their technicians more headaches than they can handle but most of the “bugs” would be discovered in very short order…. I run a service company and the abuse of rushing short trips, long trips, stop and go all day long does not take long to see how a vehicle will stand up… Send me a Mule…….
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Glenn #24,
You are not alone.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Sorry to repaeat myself, but here goes anyway. Actually, I doubt if anyone remembers any comment I make here from one day to the next anyway, so I’m probably on safe ground!
We drive a 12 year old Chevy with about 115,000 miles on the clock. It’s comfortable, and runs as well as it ever did. The gas mileage is lousy by today’s standards, but new cars are expensive, so we just minimize our driving. We have the capability in our business to keep it running for another 12 years and 115,000 miles, UNLESS Chevrolet comes up with something so exciting, and/or with such good mileage, that we feel compelled to take the financial hit. They haven’t done it yet.
The only current car which would make my wife consider a change is the Prius. As I have said here many times, I will not be seen dead in a Toyota, so that’s not an option. When Chevy comes up with something equal to or better than the Prius, we are there on day one.
Is that 2010? 2011? 2012 before Volts arrive in quantity, as someone suggested above? Oh well, we can wait. How that helps GM’s business plan, I don’t understand. Bob Lutz has said plenty of times, it’s all about the products. If you build it, they will come. If you stall around for 3 or 4 more years, I truly fear for the future of GM.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
>> I will not be seen dead in a Toyota
You might be in a Chevy though. Sorry to be ironic, but it does highlight the fact that the financial hit is well worth the safety options you get in return.
Older vehicles simply aren’t worth keeping at some point.
Newer ones can be dramatically cleaner too.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
76 john1701a:
Maybe, but it is going to take a big Suburban or Excursion to take on the sheer mass of the mighty Impala SS! Toyota? Forget it.
I am a road racer by avocation, so I totally understand the theory that accident avoidance is more important than mass vs. mass. Try explaining that to my wife, however. She looks at an Aveo or a Smart and just rolls her eyes toward heaven.
I’ll say it again. Show me a Chevy that competes with the Prius on gas mileage, and I am there to buy it. Until that day, I’m not having the “discussion” with my wife. The mid 20s mileage of the present fleet just does not do it.
Maybe a Cobalt with the 1.4 turbo and a better transmission. We’ll see
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Most car companys are tgiht lipped and for a good reason, they don’t want to give incorrect information. They lose credability. I would rather GM keep quiet and build the dam thing. I just feel GM is using this as an image builder. I hope I’m wrong. Give me a diesel 50 mpg highway and I’m happy for now. 50% reduction in my fuel usage. Cannot wait till 2010 / 2011 / 2012.
(Quote)
February 25th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Perhapd GM will wise up and listen to public opinion and change their mind about production figures.
Lets hope that 100,000 + cars will be available come 2010…
Lets hope!
(Quote)
February 26th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
The new documentary has just come out, it is called “Who will kill the Volt”.
If you watched “Who killed the electric car”, then you should watch and you will like “Who will kill the Volt” because I smell too many similarities there.
My 2 cents
(Quote)
February 26th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I agree about the non-refundable deposit. I’ll gladly put down a few thousand now to guarantee one of these. Of course I’d also be willing to pay whatever it takes to get one when they are produced as well (price gouging is fine with me), so it doesn’t matter.
(Quote)
February 26th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
10,000 in the first year for a car so fundamentally different is reasonable and even ambitious. One has to get the parts, see how well it works, see what the demand is, and go from there. 10,000 is a lot, considering, and if the demand is there, the numbers are sure to rise.
(Quote)
March 4th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Hey Number 24 Glenn,
at least its not a FORD
Fixed
Or
Repaired
Daily
Found
On the
Road
Dead
(Quote)
March 4th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Quote)
March 4th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Found On Rubbish Dumps
Fix Or Repair Daily
Fails On Rainy Days
Fails On Race Day
Found On Roadside Dead
Failure Of Research & Development
Found On Road Deserted
Fast Only Running Downhill
Factory Ordered Road Disaster
Factory Ordered Rebuilt Datsun
Flip Over Read Directions
Four Old Rusted Doors
Ford Owner Really Dumb
For Only Retarded Drivers
(French) – Fabrication Ordinare Reparation Dispendieuse
Ford Owners Recommend Datsun (Dodge)
Flipped Over Russian Dunebuggy
For Off Road Death
Fords Only Run Downhill
Fat Old Rusted Dog
Freaking Old Rusted Dodge (Datsun)
Forget Out Running Datsuns
For Old Retarded Drivers
Fucked On Race Day
Found On Rangi’s Drive
First On Recycle Day
(Quote)
March 13th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Here’s some resent news on the release of the Volt. Looks like it could be limited to a few cities and dealerships.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-volt-to-see-limited-availability-at-launch.html
(Quote)
March 13th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
The diesel threat is nonsense. Most of the people want the Volt for commuting and diesel can’t do that w/o using fuel. The Volt technology is so new and sophisticated that GM does not want to chance a huge recall in case of problems. A huge recall could be very costly. If only they had more time to gruel test the Volt before selling it, that would be great, but GM does not have the needed time to do this. Of course things can change and if everything works out perfectly, GM might decide to sell more than 10,000 . We can only hope for the best.
(Quote)
March 13th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Jack, I agree but I think this is the first time GM has stated the intial release in late 2010 would be limited to 5 cities and only a few dealerships. Or maybe it was mentioned before and I missed it.
(Quote)
August 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm