Feb 12

Congressman Jay Inslee on the Status of Plug-in Vehicle Tax Credits

 

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The other day I was surprised to receive a note from Congressman Jay Inslee. Mr. Inslee has been an instrumental proponent of plug-in electric vehicle adoption. Congressman Inlsee writes:

I am thrilled to discover your site. Thanks for spreading the news. I am a Congressman from Seattle who a leading advocate for renewables and clean energy in the House. I have been promoting plug-ins for some time and have had the first success this year with passage of an amendment to the energy bill creating a plug-in demonstration project. This is designed to help prove the reliability of the battery package particularly.

I have also recently co-authored the book “Apollo’s Fire:Igniting America’s Clean Energy Economy,” which features a good discussion of plug-ins as well as the budding host of technologies that can grow our economy while tackling global warming. I just met with GM officials at the DC car show about the Volt last week and brought it to Capitol hill to show it to my colleagues some time ago.

As an issue related to the cost of Volt ownership, I asked Mr. Inslee about the current status of tax credits for plug-in cars. He writes:

The road hasn’t ended, and hopefully it won’t be long, for the plug-in hybrid vehicle tax credit.

This December, I won a provision in the House passed energy package that would give consumers a $4,000 tax credit for purchasing one of these next-generation green cars. The Senate came within one vote of overcoming a filibuster of this legislation, but could only muster 59 of the 60 votes needed.

Later in December, Congress approved and the president signed a narrower energy package that did not include tax provisions. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said that passing the energy tax provisions, including the plug-in tax credit, is one of her top priorities for 2008. And based on how close we came in December, I’m confident the energy tax provisions can be passed in both chambers this year.

I’m also pushing another legislative vehicle for enacting the plug-in tax credit: H.R. 589, my Get Real Incentives to Drive Plug-in Act. This bill includes this tax break for American who buy plug-ins, along with additional research funding, tax incentives for U.S. auto manufacturers that make these vehicles, grant programs for conversion facilities, and a testing facility for plug-in manufacturers.

In other good news, the U.S. Department of Energy has started to support research that could get more plug-in hybrids on the road. In September 2007, the federal agency devoted $17.2 million to the development of plug-in hybrid batteries. It selected five projects in collaboration with the United States Advanced Battery Consortium that are aimed at making plug-in hybrids market ready. This is a small step in the right direction – commercialization of these vehicles. I look forward to taking the next important steps. Chief among them is the plug-in tax credit for consumers.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 at 6:39 am and is filed under Financial, Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 93


  1. 1
    Estero

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (7:39 am)

    Amazing! The text of the legislation (H.R. 589) found on the website of Congressman Jay Inslee indicates the tax credit to be $3,000, not $4,000.


  2. 2
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:22 am)

    Well Estero #1, nobody is perfect.

    I just copied and sended the text of Congressman Jay Inslee to our representatives in Belgium and at the EU Commission. Thanks again Lyle.


  3. 3
    nasaman

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:25 am)

    GREAT GOING, LYLE!!!

    Several people again raised the idea of tax credits in yesterday’s thread regarding the Volt’s cost. I frankly have not commented until now because I felt it might be premature to do so for a 2011 model. Apparently it would NOT be jumping the gun, so I want to renew the discussion by repeating some of what Drake suggested in yesterday’s thread. He said…

    “We have to fight for government tax credits.

    “What if the government offered a $10,000 tax credit for the first 10,000 plug-in vehicles purchased each year, resulting in a $25,000 Volt?

    “Would you buy a Volt at that price?

    “Let’s have a look at the cost of such a tax credit plan:

    “$10,000 X 10,000 = $100million per year

    “(The cost of the Iraq war is $177million per day. Yes, per day.)

    “Could there be a better investment than this? I can’t think of one.

    “This investment would (help to)…

    “1) Bail out the (struggling) U.S. automobile industry
    “2) Create/save thousands of American Jobs
    “3) Reduce our dependance on expensive, foreign oil more every year that such a tax credit is in place
    “4) Slow global warming”

    ….Thanks, Drake & forgive my plagerizing! Let’s get the ball rolling, guys!!!


  4. 4
    Dave B

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:26 am)

    Anything is better than nothing! And proactive Congressman…hard to come by. I’d give him a pass @ 1.


  5. 5
    mmcc

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:30 am)

    If you go to Congressman Inslee’s web site you can watch him speak about the Energy Independence Bill on the floor of the house. He mentions the Chevy Volt.

    http://www.house.gov/inslee/


  6. 6
    Demetrius

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:37 am)

    Reason to get a Volt – Hugo Chavez.

    Need I say more.


  7. 7
    john1701a

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:03 am)

    >> Could there be a better investment than this? I can’t think of one.

    I can, see the that previous topic (post #88) and keep in mind just how much design can vary.

    With the sales of almost 17,000,000 new vehicles each year in the country, credit to only 10,000 consumers is far too few.


  8. 8
    OhmExcited

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:25 am)

    I’m not crazy about tax credits. Picking winners hasn’t served us well in the past, and GM will likely just raise the price to reflect the credit. They may have done that already.

    If global warming is really an environmental disaster in the making, and if the massive importation of oil is really a national security risk, then tax carbon and tax oil to the level that represents its true cost. Everything else will take care of itself.


  9. 9
    Richard Poor

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:31 am)

    Keep in mind that solar electricity, un-subsidized, charging an EV or PHEV via the existing electric grid, is less expensive for comparable transportation performance than $3/gallon gasoline or other liquid fuel. While strictly cost of production figures with existing pollution standards show coal fired electricity to be about 3X cheaper than solar electricity, solar electricity remains much cheaper than gasoline. Keep in mind again that this is without subsidy for the solar electricity versus heavily subsidized gasoline and other liquid fuels.


  10. 10
    Mark in WI

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:32 am)

    Carrots (tax credits) are good things. So are sticks (taxing oil to reflect the true cost), but the price of oil is also one of the major forces that is pulling us into recession right now. If you believe that global warming is real, then we need incentives for electric cars, as well as a strong program for renewable electricity.

    BTW Today GM announced that it is trying to buy out all of its hourly US workers. Will the Volt, or any GM car be made in the US? If you are part of the pro-GM/pro-American crowd, where does this leave us?


  11. 11
    nasaman

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:37 am)

    7. john1701a….

    The vast majority of the vehicles sold in the US (15.5, not 17 million are projected for 2008) can’t justify ANY tax credit based on design, whereas the Volt has the potential to DRAMATICALLY reduce the amount of gasoline (& the amount of CO2) its owners use/generate.

    I won’t argue the numbers Drake chooses ….it’s the principal that matters. Bloomberg reported today that GM lost $38.7 Billion in 2007, and we all know Ford and Chrysler are doing even less well than GM ….both have been flirting with bankruptcy for some time now. Meanwhile, the Japanese government continues to subsidize risks and development costs of its automakers, as it always has.

    Bloomberg’s report today of GM’s loss last year also reminds us that “GM hasn’t posted an annual sales gain in the U.S. since 1999, while Toyota has advanced each year (since ’99).”

    It’s obvious our automotive industry needs help, and I believe the best way to help is to offer substantial tax rebates to buyers of plug-in hybrid vehicles!


  12. 12
    Tim

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:56 am)

    I support anything that lowers taxes, but I CANNOT support DIRECT payments of tax money to “For Profit” corporations.

    Why? This is simply a redistribution of wealth to corporate campaign supporters and lobbyists in the name of “investments” and “research.”

    Also, combining several different issues in ONE bill is unconscionable as it leads to PORK via EXTORTION. Want your “X”, then you’ll have to vote for my “Y”.

    Many think that the Line Item Veto would solve this problem but that would only shift the Constitutional “Purse String” power away from Congress and concentrates it in the Executive branch. Combined the Line Item Veto with Unconstitutional “Signing Statements” and “Executive Orders” and you have unchecked Despotism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotism

    The ONLY way to solve these problems is to follow (NOT interpret) the Constitution INCLUDING the limitations placed on the Federal Government by the 10th Amendment.

    FEW of our “representatives” (including Mr. Inslee) actually obey their Oaths of Office once they receive power.

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

    Now, Mr. Inslee, please READ and FOLLOW the Constitution!


  13. 13
    Texas

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (10:01 am)

    Dear Congressman Jay Inslee, If you keep up this great work I’m going to paint your name on my Volt!

    If anyone that just read that article and sensed how hard it is to get green technology legislation passed has any doubt about the powers EVs are up against than you are delusional. The benefits of going to EVs has gotten past the point of obvious and the resistance encountered is frightening.

    I truly think there are people out there that would rather see the US fall than to change their way of thinking. I’m not talking the crazies locked up in their bomb shelters but powerful CEOs and political leaders. I’m not too worried however. If the US doesn’t get it right some other country will and they will be the ones to reap the benefits. Coming to the market first or in the very early stages has proven to be extremely important for commercial success.

    Come on people, there is nothing more important than the world’s energy problem. Battery and solar technologies are the two most important solutions. How about we stop beating around the bush (pun intended), hold hands, and admit it. Silly little $500,000 dollar projects are not going to get us anywhere fast enough. Germany, Japan, China and others are going to kick our butts if we don’t get serious!


  14. 14
    Mark in WI

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (10:28 am)

    Texas #13: Amen brother.


  15. 15
    Jason The Saj

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (10:55 am)

    The U.S. government should offer $6,000 tax credit + an additional $4,000 tax credit if you add a solar or wind power generator to your home. This would theoretically allow you to recharge batteries on clean renewable energy making the 40 miles of your Volt 99.9% clean energy.

    :)


  16. 16
    Mark Bartosik

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (10:58 am)

    Look up HR 1618 at thomas.loc.gov (library of Congress), and you’ll find a better bill:

    ..
    .
    .

    LIMITATION PER VEHICLE- The amount of the credit allowed under subsection (a) for any vehicle shall not exceed the sum of–

    `(A) $4,000 in the case of a plug -in electric drive vehicle with 4kWh traction battery, and

    `(B) $250 for each additional kWh of traction battery capacity of such vehicle as exceeds 4kWh but does not exceed 50kWh.

    That would be $5000 or $7000 credit depending on definition of ‘traction battery’ (does 16 or 8KWh get used for traction).


  17. 17
    Rich Anderson

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (11:13 am)

    Yet another infringement of government. Really, TAX CREDITS are a fraud. If the government would let market pressures adjust and drop all of the manipulations of commerce we’d be much better off. Stop using tax code to shape industry, for that matter anything! Establish a consumption tax with fiscal responsibility to hold spending in check. Competition and innovation is what lowers price, not government subsidizing. When will people realize government programs cost much more! Just think how much more spending power consumers would have without funding TAX CREDITS.


  18. 18
    noel park

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (11:33 am)

    nasaman, #3:

    Amen brother. Preach on!


  19. 19
    Dave B

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (11:44 am)

    I forgot to mention Lyle,

    If we can assist Congressman Jay Inslee, please tell us when and what to write our Congressman to relay the message to support his bill. I mean, dates, votes, you name it…and THAT would make a difference.


  20. 20
    Jeff M

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (12:07 pm)

    I still belive tax credits are just a give away to the car makers and/or the dealerships that are relfected in the selling prices. Look at the Prius tax credit… as soon as the credit expires for it, Toyota drops the list price.

    However I’d rather see tax credits for plug-in’s than being given to big oil!

    On the Senate side, Dick Lugar is a proponent of plug-in’s, see http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7850954&nav=9Tai


  21. 21
    Wallace McMann

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (12:22 pm)

    A Ron Paul suporter, small government guy here, but sometimes government needs to give a new technology a push. I’m all for direct credits from the government to buy a GM Volt. Although it needs to be an electric car like the Volt with a generator backup system. The Prius does not cut it, even if they go plug in. Also, it needs to have an American brand and be mostly built in USA, why should our tax dollars support money going to foreign companies. We are trying to replace imported oil, so we should not support anything foreign to replace it with. The only time I think government should get involved is to better our lives, otherwise stay out of our lives and mind your own business. Non-intervention domestic or foreign, that’s the way to go. BTW If you didn’t support Ron Paul, you have no business saying that you are conservative.


  22. 22
    john1701a

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (12:26 pm)

    What is the purpose of the tax credit… to reduce fuel consumption or to promote the new technology?

    Many here claim the first. The argument in the past was always the second. There’s a big difference based on the vehicle quantity.

    10,000 is clearly just a niche, especially spread among several automakers.

    100,000 for the current hybrids (60,000 plus phaseout quarters) for each automaker really does kick start production with the intent of mainstream penetration.


  23. 23
    Grizzly

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (12:34 pm)

    Great and timely post Lyle. Hopefully there will be more to keep the issue alive.

    WRT tax credits, our IRS isn’t going away. The problem with capitalism is that like any thing else, it isn’t perfect and while people can talk about “pure market” forces and the like they should understand that there is also no such thing, just as there is no such thing as “pure competition”.

    That said there is nothing wrong with tax credits as they help foster that which would not otherwise, by encouraging something like the Volt to be produced. The pure expense of developing the Volt might very well have deterred any manufacturer from even attempting it. GM has done the right thing, but I assure you it’s expensive.

    As has been mentioned on this thread, does anyone think that the Prius sits on car lots because Toyota just dreamed it up and swallowed the development cost without help from “both” shores?


  24. 24
    jkh2000

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (2:20 pm)

    Finally a congressional person who is interested in what is good for the economy as well as the environment instead of what lines their pockets. We have too much of that here in Washington State. I would love to be the first in Washington state to own one of these vehicles.


  25. 25
    Tim

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (2:39 pm)

    Wallace (21) “…but sometimes government needs to give a new technology a push.”

    Yes, by ending ALL forms of corporate welfare and by promoting the common welfare by dismantling monopolies so that the FREE market competition can produce the BEST solutions. Using public funds for tax rebates or research grants gives an unfair competitive advantage to those technologies.

    Read (not interpret) the Constitution! It is there specifically to limit Federal power so the people can remain free. When it is ignored, power shifts from the people to the government. If Power Corrupts, what happens when it is concentrated without checks and balances?

    When government “gives technology a push” they usually choose them by the best lobbyists and best campaign donors, NOT the best technologies. Recent on point examples include Oil, Corn Ethanol and Hydrogen.

    You can’t be Half-Pregnant. You can’t be Almost Fee. You can’t be Partially Constitutional. Freedom is NOT easy because the other side of the coin is GREAT personal responsibility. Responsibility is so scary that many people can’t handle it. These Sheeple (Democratic-Socialists and NeoCons) need the government to make decisions for them so they can blame somebody else for the disappointments in their own lives.

    You can choose to be free or you can choose to be a Sheeple. You can’t have it both ways and you must CHOOSE!


  26. 26
    MIke Clark

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (2:40 pm)

    I do not have a political axe to grind like most posters leaving their poitico BS on this site. Nope my intent is simple, do bodily harm to the OPEC Nations and those who sponsor terriorism and bolster OUR nations future. I say let them eat their oil! I want a electric car and I want it now. Does it matter who produces it first, nope not at all. Hopefully it will be a US company but with GM pulling the plug on the EV-1 program I don’t see it happening at all. The EV-1 program was a winner. Why? How many people have you seen take GM ro court to KEEP a car! Only those lucky few who leased the EV-1 and they fought like hell to keep their cars. GM is a player don’t forget that! Is the price of gasoline falling? Yes it is.


  27. 27
    David L G

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (3:15 pm)

    I’m glad #25 doesn’t have a political axe to grind!


  28. 28
    Wise Golden

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (3:17 pm)

    # 10 Mark
    Carrots (tax credits) are good things. So are sticks (taxing oil to reflect the true cost), but the price of oil is also one of the major forces that is pulling us into recession right now. If you believe that global warming is real, then we need incentives for electric cars, as well as a strong program for renewable electricity.

    BTW Today GM announced that it is trying to buy out all of its hourly US workers. Will the Volt, or any GM car be made in the US? If you are part of the pro-GM/pro-American crowd, where does this leave us?

    Wise Golden,
    Yes to the carrot and stick aproach. A tax increase on oil could be refunded to people in the form of an average credit on their income tax resulting in an average zero fuel tax, however, those who chose to conserve would still get the average tax refund and would end up saving money. Those who chose not to conserv would still get the refund, but would end up paying more. That would not harm our economy because the net is always zero effect. In fact, it would dramatically help the economy as people rush to invest in new auto technology.

    As for GM trying to buy out all of its employees — that’s not true. They offered buyouts to all employees, but only the highest seniority employees within a certain quota will be allowed to excersize the buyout. They only want to downsize a certain amount (not certain of the number,) and that’s fine because it will improve their efficiency. They will always likely make cars in the US, and probably moreso when they become more streemlined.


  29. 29
    Jim I

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (3:41 pm)

    Not to be a pessimist here, but the Congressman wants us to be happy that his bill “almost” passed.

    If it had passed, then I would be happy. It didn’t, so I am not…..

    It doesn’t matter if it missed by 1 vote or 455, It did not pass.

    You get credit for success, not for the attempt. In the immortal words of Yoda, “Do, or do not. There is no try.”

    Words to live by…………… :)


  30. 30
    Gordo

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (3:56 pm)

    Some of the comments here show a lack of understanding of what a tax credit is. If you pay $35,000 for a volt and get a $3,000 tax credit and you are in say a 25% tax bracket, you end up paying $34,250 ($750 tax savings and that ONLY if you are one of the minority that itemize deductions). Add say 6% sales tax and your final cost is $36,700.

    I believe the Mitsubishi Miev, which is going to beat the Volt to market, will only cost around $17,000 (less than half the price of the Volt). Love to see how GM competes…

    We don’t need tax brakes, we need reasonably priced cars that pay for themselves in fuel savings. Free market works!


  31. 31
    ziv

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (4:12 pm)

    Gordo, I believe the Mitsubishi is going to retail for $19,000us, but will only be sold in Japan, as Mitsubishi notes in the article below. 90 mile all electric range but no range extender so it is a pretty nice option as a second car.

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/10/11/mitsubushi_denies_electric_car/index.html?section=cnn_latest

    $19,000 price point…
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7816102/


  32. 32
    noel park

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (4:29 pm)

    Gordo, #28:

    A tax credit is directly subtracted from the amount of the tax. A deduction applies to the gross income and is subject to the tax rate, as you discuss.

    People who bought one of the first 60,000 or so Priuses got to take $3400 directly off the bottom line of their tax bill. A similar amount applies to the Honda Civic hybrid, and a somewhat lesser amount to others which are less efficient. These include, but are not limited to, the Ford Escape, Nissan Altima, Toyota Camry, and even the Chevy Malibu and Saturn Vue.

    A credit is a direct credit. A deduction is subject to the tax rate. Not the same thing at all.


  33. 33
    nasaman

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (4:40 pm)

    30 Gordo….

    I’m glad you raised this, Gordo. It’s much simpler than most might imagine …..my tax prepayer (who has filed for hybrid car tax credits) says….

    “A tax credit for a hybrid car is obtained by filing for it with the IRS and HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR BRACKET OR WHETHER YOU OWE FEDERAL INCOME TAXES OR NOT. It’s also completely independent of any State income or sales taxes.”

    So for example, if the Tax Credit for a Volt is $6,000 and you owe NOTHING on your 1040, you’ll receive a check from the U.S. Treasury for $6,000! [Of course, if you owe any tax, that will be subtracted.] :)


  34. 34
    Jon P.

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (4:56 pm)

    For the Record:

    From Kellys Blue Book http://www.kbb.com
    2008 Base Models:

    Acura TSX :31,005
    Chevy Malibu: 27,445
    Chrysler Sebring: 28,190
    Ford Taurus: 26,085
    Honda Accord: 28,695
    Nissan Maxima: 28,895
    Toyota Camry: 28,780

    2010 Chevy Volt 35,000

    35K Dosen’t seem so crazy now. If you want to make comparisons about initial cost stop with the cobalt, pruius, civic, altima, corolla, comparisons, and compare price tags to a comparable car. If you want to buy a Chevy Aveo go do that, and stop cryin.


  35. 35
    john1701a

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (5:28 pm)

    >> …HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH…

    Better get a new tax prepayer.

    ATM causes some to get less of a credit and a few to get none at all.

    People have been complaining about gotcha for years now.


  36. 36
    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (5:44 pm)

    Well, if nothing else, our group has passion on its side. My hope has been that we will be able to stay focussed on the goal of getting the Volt Version 1.0′s wheels on the ground. Although I’m not exactly the ETERNAL optomist, I’m pretty close. Even so, it’s hard to picture how so many vastly differing passions can all come together to achieve OUR common goal.
    There’s always prayer (wry smile).
    God Bless
    PS No offense to the agnostics/athiests on the list.


  37. 37
    nasaman

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (6:01 pm)

    35 John 1701a….

    You may very well be right for your particular case, John. The ATM (Alternative Minimum Tax), was devised to keep wealthy taxpayers from avoiding paying tax, does indeed reduce the hybrid car tax credit for certain taxpayers. Typically, those at risk are wealthy, married with more than two children, own a home and live in a state with high income taxes, such as California, New York and Michigan.

    But for MOST middle-class taxpayers in the other 45+ states, a tax credit should result in a 1:1 reduction in your taxes owed, or if you don’t owe any tax, an outright check from the U.S. Treasury.*

    I agree, you better get a new tax advisor if you’re “bumping into” the ATM.

    * In any case, a tax credit is NOT treated like a deduction


  38. 38
    Jim I

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (6:08 pm)

    Tag:

    Agreed.

    It is one of the reasons I really believe that the Volt will be such a success. It is not just one particular group that says “I want that!”, but a very wide range of people from many different sides of every debate platform.

    This is the right car at the right time!

    IMHO, the only way that the really touchy price issue is going to be solved is to have three different models (basic no frills model-mid range model-high end supercar) with associated pricing, or one model with a long list of available options. In my year here, that seems to be the most devisive issue. It will be interesting to see how GM handles it…..


  39. 39
    Glenn

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (6:17 pm)

    “Not to be a pessimist here, but the Congressman wants us to be happy that his bill “almost” passed.

    If it had passed, then I would be happy. It didn’t, so I am not…..”

    OK, here goes the partisan thing again:
    If there had been a few more democrats in the senate or if we didn’t have this particular president, this bill would most certainly have passed. In fact, the bill DID pass, but with one vote shy of of overriding a presidential veto. And he tells us we’re addicted to oil.

    I realize that there are lots of democrats here and lots of republicans and lots of independents and others. I’m sure we disagree on lots of issues. What brings us together is our common desire for this new technology, regardless if it is for climate change, foreign oil, balance of payments, or for our own personal budgets.

    My vote will go to the candidate who I think will make a difference on this one issue. Its not a republican.


  40. 40
    Rashiid Amul

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (6:43 pm)

    Glenn, #39,

    “My vote will go to the candidate who I think will make a difference on this one issue. Its not a republican.”

    I’m a republican and I’m not voting for one neither.


  41. 41
    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (7:41 pm)

    Glenn,
    You sound like you’re guilty of doing exactly what you complain of with Inslee. “Not to be a pessimist BUT. Not to be DIVISIVE or POLITICAL ***BUT*** if we just had more Democrats…..
    The more we keep politics out of the discussion, the more focused we can be as a group.


  42. 42
    Gordo

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (7:42 pm)

    Thanks for the clarification regarding tax credit vs. deduction – shows what I know. At any rate, so a volt at $35,000, add in say 6% sales tax, then take off your $3000 tax credit, and you end up with a $34,100 car, add the title, transfer, and window etching and your $35,000 volt is slightly more than $35,000 when all is said and done :)

    I still say its not the best idea to make taxpayers subsidize electric cars, let the free market work. People will be more than happy to pay for a car that pays for itself. Look at all the people interested here, how many would buy only if they got a tax credit? Competition is what will drive down prices, if the government wants to get involved they should fund “X Prise” type competition for first DOT approved car to mass market under a certain price point, or prizes for engineering acomplishments that will improve the industry, etc. I think google is already involved in this sort of thing…


  43. 43
    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (7:48 pm)

    Gordo
    Scoot over to Greencarcongress.com. They have several posts about Ferseral grants aimed at funding 30 million $’s in research.
    HTH,
    Tagamet


  44. 44
    Ed Moreau

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (7:54 pm)

    I still would like to now the Price…


  45. 45
    Koz

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:05 pm)

    Yes Gordo mixed up a Tax Credit (dollar for dollar offset of tax owed) with a Tax Deduction ($ reduction in taxable income).

    John P – Thank You for doing the research. It’s frustrating to keep seeing comparison $13,000 econoboxes. Somewhat equivalent cars to the Volt as proposed (not considering the differing drivetrains) are $23,000-$31,000 today. So, yes the Volt is more expensive but if the production version is similar to what we have seen of the concept then it will be roughly $2-$10K more than it’s apples for apples competitors. If there is a tax credit in effect for plug-ins, it could be substantially less.

    You will have to factor in your own driving habits, gas, etc to come up with actual and unique financial comparisons; but at $35K it’s not looking so bad for most people that want a car in this class. For those that want or can only afford the cheapest first cost, this will not be the car for you. If enough people buy the more expensive first generation plug-ins (GM or otherwise), you can be confident that future generations of BEV’s and plug-ins will meet your needs. It won’t take that much improvement and/or increases in gasoline prices to make electric drivetrain vehicles economical for everyone, but it has to start somewhere.


  46. 46
    Grizzly

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (8:36 pm)

    Folks,

    Hugo/Exxon….*no*t at all good. But it’s also small potatoes compared to what could happen with the middle east. I’d have doubted this a decade ago, but we can’t discount China and other emerging economies as alternate clients of OPEC.

    Anyone who thinks of the E85 capability of the Volt’s 3-banger as insignificant is dead wrong.

    Again, GM is doing the right thing and I want to start a fight for the right tax credit to make this affordable to not only myself, but the masses if at all possible. It may not be Gen1 or 2 but the ball will definitely start to roll.


  47. 47
    Jim I

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:01 pm)

    #39 Glen:

    I was not trying to be partisan, I was just trying to make the point that I am tired of ALL politicians telling us that we should be proud of the work they are doing, when basically, they end up doing almost nothing, except getting themselves re-elected…..


  48. 48
    gr

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:01 pm)

    Let’s keep in mind that the $3,400.00 tax CREDIT significantly drove sales of the Toyota Prius in the United States. Incentives is one of the good things government CAN do to help its people make major changes in technology, resource consumption and behavior patterns. Our transition to BEVs and PHEVs will result in benefits to all Americans – hence the logics of encouraging people to purchase new technology.

    At the same time GM needs to bring this car to market at closer to $25k so it can compete with an entry level Prius – which is no where near as efficient but will be a PHEV shortly after the Volt introduction.


  49. 49
    azkie5

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:07 pm)

    Political party aside, input from us DOES make a difference. Why don’t we each write our congresspeople and senators?

    What I’ve learned from doing this before….
    1. Email or a phone call is the way to go. By the time snail mail goes through all the clearances for bombs and germs and such, it can takes weeks to get delivered.
    2. The email or phone call should be brief. Did I say brief? Like “My name is ____, I live in (your state) and I want Congressman/Senator____ to support a tax credit for EV. (If there is a certain bill being considered, you can mention that number.)” A Congressman once told me that the long letters that go on and on get a cursory glance and that’s about it. They just don’t have time to wade through alot of stuff. Be brief.

    US House of Representatives:
    http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml

    US Senate:
    http://www.senate.gov/

    Let’s get’er done! ;-)


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    Grizzly

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (9:17 pm)

    “gr

    Let’s keep in mind that the $3,400.00 tax CREDIT significantly drove sales of the Toyota Prius in the United States.”

    === ==== ===

    Yes it did and the Prius can’t be practically driven w/o gasoline. The Volt can for 40 or under, and even if OPEC reserves weren’t available to the US, you would still be on the way to your vacation with moonshine. ;) We have/can/will produce this *MANY* ways.

    I really don’t think that 10K as a deduction is out of order for the Volt. I just don’t think right now Big Oil or B.O. lobbied congress sees it this way.

    There is really only one thing stronger than a lobby…..GRASS ROOTS. It takes time, effort and education but I really think we need as a group to work on this.

    I’m hoping Lyle will keep these blog headers going and keep the heat on.


  51. 51
    Drake

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (10:33 pm)

    We need real leadership to help promote plug-ins. Plug-ins represent an intermediary between a pure ICE vehicle and the power systems that will fuel the cars 75 years from now. They also represent freedom. Until we can produce the energy we need to run our economy, there will be no true freedom. Until then, we are all economic slaves to those that have the energy in the form that we need.

    I for one am tired of all of the hoops the world has to jump through to get the oil we need to keep the world economy running. We are in Iraq now for oil. Anyone who disagrees with this is not being truthful with themselves (will we spend $2trillion to free to non-oil-rich nations of Africa from their dictators? I think not.)

    Without oil, our economy dies. Expensive oil means our economy slows and heads toward recession. Why is this issue not #1 on the political stage?

    Global Warming
    War
    Economic ruin
    The ending of America as a super-power

    Do we really need anymore reasons to end our usage of foreign oil?

    FTA: “In September 2007, the federal agency devoted $17.2 million to the development of plug-in hybrid batteries.”

    $17million? Really? Is this a joke? We spend more on saving endangered turtles. Why not save ourselves and our economy?

    Everyone please consider our current energy situation when you vote in the coming elections.


  52. 52
    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (10:51 pm)

    Lyle,
    Is there a way for individuals to filter posts?
    Thanks and God Bless,
    Tagamet


  53. 53
    The Anti-Oil Jihadi

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (11:02 pm)

    Congressman, have you ever considered the concept of minimum prices for gas and diesel fuel? Perhaps something reasonable like $2.75 a gallon.

    I worry that if demand for oil ever decreases because of alternatives, then oil’s price will decrease to such a degree it will be competitive again.

    I want oil made mostly obsolete for transportation purposes.

    http://www.oiljihad.org


  54. 54
    Gregory Laney

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (11:30 pm)

    Why does the government seem to think they need to give people tax credits for using fuel efficent vehicles. Stop tacking our taxes and giving the money to other people. Better yet stop tacking our taxes at all.

    Man what a scam.

    Yes I love the concept of the Chevy volt but why does everyone have to pay taxes for people to drive. Driving a car is not right. If you can afford to drive the car than drive it but if you can’t than find something else to drive. Don’t make everyone pay for your pleasure.

    Gregory Laney


  55. 55
    David L

     

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    Feb 12th, 2008 (11:35 pm)

    I live in on the west coast of Canada. Currently the federal government offers a rebate of up to $2000 for fuel efficient vehicles. The BC provincial government offers a 50% reduction of the sales tax payable, up to a maximum of $1,000. I think a reduction or elimination of sales tax is a better option than a rebate as it does not influence car manufacturers and dealers to “artificially” inflate the sale price.

    Three years ago, I purchased a new Suzuki Aerio SX. At that time, the federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) was 7%, and the Provincial Sales Tax (PST) was 7%. The list price was about $21,000 and with delivery and various other charges – the price was about $22,500. Taxes (a total of 14%) added $3150 to the purchase price!

    Even with the currently reduced GST rate of 5%, new cars in BC have both GST plus PST added to the purchase price, for a combined rate of 12%. On a $35,000 Volt, 12% would be an additional $4200. I dearly hope that by 2011 – that the federal and provincial governments make REV like the Volt “tax free”. I think that this would be much more effective than offering rebates.


  56. 56
    Estero

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (7:18 am)

    Jean-Charles Jacquemin #2 said: “Well Estero #1, nobody is perfect.”

    You overlooked the point. When Congressman Jay Enslee (or others) comes onto this forum touting the legislations he sponsored, one would reasonably expect that person to have his facts straight and to know the legislation. In this case, the Congressman came up a litle short!


  57. 57
    Harvey Maddrix

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (7:26 am)

    to #36
    none taken. Keep praying just in case.


  58. 58
    Gary Ciaschini

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (7:49 am)

    I can only hope the government doesn’t get too involved otherwise the Volt and other plug ins won’t happen in my life time. Secondly I would buy an electric car even without tax credits. We must free ourselves of fossil fuels.


  59. 59
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (8:25 am)

    Estero #56

    Good remark,Estero, I agree with you.

    What I wanted to say ironicaly – but I was too synthetic – is that we all understand that politicians want to show what they have done well for a particular group and I suppose we all know that they overstate certain facts, or actions, or …

    What is important is that some elected representative (and not only in the US) take the issue we defend here seriously to the point that they propose supportive legislations.

    But they are as we are : human beings …, and moreover they want to be re-elected …


  60. 60
    Estero

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (9:51 am)

    Jean-Charles Jacquemin #59. I too agree with you.

    When it comes to proposed legislation, I would hope we could have a legitimate debate on the issues of the legislation in this forum. We can decide then whether or not to support the legislation and those who sponsored it.

    There is no question this forum has caught the attention of GM and has had an affect upon many of there decisons. Perhaps a debate of legislation issues could have a similar affect upon the sponsors of legislation. It is worth the effort!


  61. 61
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (10:48 am)

    Estero #59,

    The first piece of evidence of the necessity of a political support and, in fine, appropriate legislations is the strong recommendation of the International Energy Agency to take political decision. Particularly when it comes to give citizens non ambiguous signals in case of a necessity for a significant change in the habits.

    Sorry, I lost the link but I remember that the IEA says that the private sector cannot do it alone.

    Indeed, competition and market shares must be defended even at short term and private companies are not rewarded for the positive externalities they could generate by introducing new products respectful of the environment.

    It is for this reason that the citizens (through state intervention) must compensate them (as it is done on the contrary when taxing them when they pollute), and that polluting citizens must pay for the negative externalities they generate.

    Look what happened when California decided on ZEV’s.

    So, I’m in to discuss political initiatives in the field of EV’s


  62. 62
    Gordo

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (11:43 am)

    If the government wants to do anything, it should be an across the board mandate for higher fuel economy standards that actually has some teeth. I’m not talking about junk like 25MPG by 2025. Stuff like that just makes me angry at the legislators for wasting our time and money. How about 40MPG by 2015?

    Then again, maybe its pointless for the government to interfere at all. You have to kind of assume its an issue of just waiting for the technology to come along that works, then the free market will take care of itself. Because high gas prices alone haven’t spurred EVs in Europe any sooner, they’ve been paying $6+/gallon for years now. The result has been smaller cars, and a lot of diesel cars, but not EVs.


  63. 63
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (1:54 pm)

    Gordo #62,

    You write :
    “Then again, maybe its pointless for the government to interfere at all. You have to kind of assume its an issue of just waiting for the technology to come along that works, then the free market will take care of itself. Because high gas prices alone haven’t spurred EVs in Europe any sooner, they’ve been paying $6+/gallon for years now. The result has been smaller cars, and a lot of diesel cars, but not EVs.”

    That just what we Europeans are struggling against, the “free market” did not take care of itself and we pay more and more on gas because the car makers do not offer anything else than ICE cars and we do not have the choice to buy anything else.

    It is silly to say that the Europeans do not want hybrid cars as I read on a blog of GM, there are only two on sale now : the Prius and the Honda. the Prius costs twice the price here than in the US and is not competitive with better European cars, the Honda is less efficient than the Prius. and that is all, … until perhaps one or two years ….

    The non existence of EV cars in Europe is the proof that the free market is either no sufficient, or at least too slow. As the IEA said, a strong political support for EVs is recommended to get them asap.

    I live in a country where Z. Gramme invented the dynamo and where Camille Jenatzy reproduced the the world speed record (105 km/h) that he earned in an electric car, the “Jamais contente” in 1905. It’s a shame that the monopoly power of car makers did not allow the development of electric propulsion since then. And it is for the reason that car makers have a monopoly or oligopoly power that I put quotes around “free market” because it does not exist in today car industry.


  64. 64
    Gordo

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (4:43 pm)

    Jean-Charles Jacquemin, I just can’t bring myself to buy into the conspiracy theories. I mean there are a bunch of companies out there solely focused on electric cars, but none have produced a viable product yet. I don’t think it has anything to do with big bad oil. Have you read GMs own blog response to the conspiracy nuts?

    http://fyi.gmblogs.com/2006/06/who_ignored_the_facts_about_th.html

    Do you really want the government inself to start building cars? When have they ever done a good job at taking over industry? I’m still not sure what the market will be like yet for EVs. Most people I talk to ignorantly assume they will not want one because of limited distances they can travel, or some perceived safety concern. There are still tons of people that think a big SUV is safer even though they are only making the roads more dangerous for everyone. EVs are definitely the way of the future but you still have to wonder how successful these companies will be in getting people to make the switch.


  65. 65
    Gordo

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (4:47 pm)

    Another idea for those that think government involvement is good. Make it mandatory for ALL cars sold to show current MPG and MPG for last tank at all times. This teaches people how to drive efficiently.


  66. 66
    Gary Hill

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (5:19 pm)

    To bad the name of the legislator who put this up for filibuster wasn’t singled out for being the low-life special interest skum bag that (s)he was. THERE’s someone that needs to be straightened out.


  67. 67
    Gm's Volt: Made In China? - PriusChat Forums

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (5:32 pm)

    [...] (at least some of them) are trying to get tax credits for future purchases of the Volt. GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Concept Site


  68. 68
    noel park

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (8:06 pm)

    Gm’s (sic) Volt: Made in China? – PriusChat Forums, #67:

    Ha, ha, ha, LOL. This from people who have been the biggest beneficiaries of US tax credits for hybrids. 65,000 Priuses X $3500 = $227,500,000 in taxpayer subsidies for a Japanese corporation. Not to mention further tens of millions to Honda.

    Do you see Japan giving any subsidies to imports from the US any time soon? Ahhhhh, I doubt it.

    I’ll say it again. If the US government can subsidize Japanese hybrids to the tune of $3500 each, it can damn well subsidize US made Volts, which will average several times the mileage, to the tune of $10,000.


  69. 69
    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (9:03 pm)

    Toyota has at least two plants in the US.


  70. 70
    Wise Golden

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (9:24 pm)

    68 – Noel, you’re right.
    69 – Tagamet, you’re right that they have two plants, but the Prius is made 100% in Japan. Not cool to subsidize an import. Toyota should build the Prius here — we buy more than they do in Japan.


  71. 71
    T

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (9:44 pm)

    I think a tax credit ($5000 or whatever we can get) is a good idea. People who want to help this country on a path free of it’s dependency will buy the cars no matter what but the credit is a nice way to lessen the premium they have to pay to be leaders and help make the market. It helps as an incentive for some as well.

    Once there are several versions of these cars and the market builds then the larger production and competition will take care of itself. Not to mention the technology will improve greatly now that GM and others are making it a priority.


  72. 72
    T

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (9:54 pm)

    Also on the research front the government can help by moving funding into areas that will benefit this cause and the US auto companies can piggy back on this similar to how the companies in the research triangle in NC do it for biomedical and systems technology. It creates tons of great jobs and furthers advances that are good for everyone. This is a good model and it is proven to work.

    Now I’m not sure the auto companies would want shared research on batteries that might be their competative advantage but certainly for bio fuels or other areas that would benefit them it could be useful.


  73. 73
    T

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (10:01 pm)

    70 – Wise Golden – Your right on there

    Toyota built the prius in Japan first and it was brought here more to market them and jump on Honda than anything and they just got lucky. They should be built here but Toyota is not interested in doing the right thing they are just interested in making money.

    They build and sell a hybrid minivan in Japan that gets like 40 miles to the gallon. Why not here? I’m guessing since they build and sell Sienna’s just fine. They are just maxing the profit. Why spend all the $ and cut into their own sales? They should build a hybrid plant here and start selling some of those models they don’t import. Hopefully by the time they get to that we will have beaten them to it.


  74. 74
    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 13th, 2008 (10:31 pm)

    Golden: actually they have or are building 5 plants in the US, but they mostly bulid the big vehicles. My guess is that they A) make more $ in the US on large vehicles and B) it’s cheaper to ship a Prius. Their huge government subsidies available to Toyota obviously give them an edge, but even they lost money on the Prius for the first three years. Most of the recent press states that GM will also lose money initially on the VOLT. **IF** that’s true, I really believe that that would be very short term. When people see us sillently circling them at the gas pumps, it’ll sell. (g)


  75. 75
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

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    Feb 14th, 2008 (10:41 am)

    Gordo # 64 & 65

    I think we express exactly the same thing but with different words and cultural references.

    We all know I think that it is folly to ask the government to produce a manufactured good or a commercial service, look at what happenned in USSR, etc.

    But what you advocate is clearly a strong political intervention : “Make it mandatory for ALL cars sold to show current MPG and MPG for last tank at all times”.

    I am not believing at a great conspiracy either. But I strongly believe in vested interest of monopolies and oligopolies like there are in the car industry.

    We consumers pay what the economists call rents on systems that have been paid for since a long time like ICE, parts, etc.

    The price of cars has been shown to be too high for the actual product.

    Look at the price of tV sets, computers, washmachines, etc.

    The real price of cars should be more or less 1/3rd of the price of the fifties even taking into account technological progress.

    The public intervention I am advocating is to put the good incentives to divert the rents from pure monopoly/oligopoly premium to R&D useful for the common good.

    As you propose with the mandatory mentioning of MPG’s


  76. 76
    robert bevil

     

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    Feb 14th, 2008 (12:48 pm)

    we need the volt asap. will purcase one the first day available.


  77. 77
    noel park

     

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    Feb 14th, 2008 (2:10 pm)

    Jean-Charles, #75:

    Thank you Professor. Nothing like raising the level of the discourse!

    Somebody here said the other day that the cost of the war in Iraq is $177 million a day. I believe it. Actually, when the long term hidden costs -long term disability care of thousands of wounded, economic cost of the loss of productivity of the dead, economic cost of the loss of productivity of the permanently disabled, interest on the borrowed money, just for starters – it’s probably a lot more.

    So, the direct cost of 1 day of the war would fund a tax credit of $10,000 for 17,700 Volts. The cost of a week (it goes on 7 days a week, in case anyone didn’t notice) would fund the credit for 123,900 Volts – way more than the first year’s production.

    So what’s better – Volts, or dead and maimed kids and a bankrupt nation?


  78. 78
    Jean-Charles Jacquemin

     

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    Feb 14th, 2008 (2:22 pm)

    Noel Park #77,

    I cannot say more than agree with you, and sorry for the involuntary hints, you guessed well. Thank you.


  79. 79
    MikeJ

     

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    Feb 16th, 2008 (7:11 pm)

    Why doesn’t the government just give us a $40,000 tax credit, making the cars free? Then we’ll all have one, and we won’t need to use any foreign oil ever again!


  80. [...] even heard directly from Congressman Jay Inslee on the status of tax credits for plug-ins and the fact that it [...]


  81. 81
    james a lewton

     

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    Feb 17th, 2008 (8:05 pm)

    i drove a lead acid battery volkswagen beetle hybrid in 1974 powered with 11-lead acid batteries and a highoutput delco-alternator and a polaris-wankel snowmobile engine that got 75mpg made in akron,ohio at a cost of $6,000 dollars during the arab oil embargo and the same vehicle could be made today. heck with the lithium-ion developement get this simple hybrid-on the road today and into the hands of american consumers. 2-17-2008


  82. 82
    Gordo

     

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    Feb 18th, 2008 (8:53 am)

    “Why doesn’t the government just give us a $40,000 tax credit, making the cars free? Then we’ll all have one, and we won’t need to use any foreign oil ever again!”

    Great idea, save GM and American jobs! And while they’re at it, they should give us free healthcare, free college, and guaranteed jobs for life. They should just do away with the income tax all together. Don’t forget to convert your dollars to gold and buy a few guns…


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    Ed Moreau

     

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    Feb 18th, 2008 (12:26 pm)

    I dont think the Federal Goverment will let You sell or owen a car that thay can’t tax you on the fuel it runs on.Do you? The Volt is The Car we need But Most Familys can not afford it Even with a tax credit.And whet about older and none tax payers That Can not afford $36,000 Pluss.For a car. Ed.


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    noel park

     

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    Feb 18th, 2008 (2:58 pm)

    MikeJ, #79:

    Not so far fetched, when you think of it. Some smart blogger said the other day that the war in Iraq costs $177 million/day. For that, you could give out $40,000 credits for 4425 Volts per day. Since the war goes on 365 days/year, that’s about 1.6 million Volts/year.

    Of course the fully loaded cost of the war is much higher, but 1.6 million is probably more Volts than GM could produce in the first year anyway!

    It’s pretty well acknowledged that the war has cost $1 Trillion so far. Many say 2, or even 3. $1 trillion would provide 25 million $40,000 tax credits, which would make a pretty good dent in oil consumption.

    If the “endless war” continues much longer, $1 trillion is going to look pretty cheap.


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    Tagamet

     

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    Feb 18th, 2008 (3:10 pm)

    Noel,
    Do you thinnk that politiciziing the Volt does anything to ADVANCE it? I know you have issues about which you are passionate, (so do I) but I thought that this list was about the Volt and the things we can do to “Get it’s wheels on the road”.


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    noel park

     

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    Feb 18th, 2008 (3:46 pm)

    Tagamet. #85:

    Well maybe this is just a hangover from going through all of the comments on today’s post about tax credits. Obviously, many people are opposed to the idea of a government, or governments if you include the states, which are essentially broke and operating on borrowed money, spending even more to incentivize something like the Volt.

    I think that it’s legitimate to point out the spending priorities of said government(s), and the size of that spending, as a context for what those tax credits would cost. I am personally convinced that those credits would save us back many times their cost over time.

    I believe that initiatives such as the Volt are inherently political at some level. Is our national interest best served by spending money to wean ourselves off imported oil, or fighting to defend the sources thereof? One can also make a case that the credits would pay for themselves in the lowering of the huge health costs of air pollution, never mind the national security issues.

    For example, you could provide 3500 – $40,000 volt tax credits for the cost of one (1) F-22.


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    PJK

     

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    Feb 18th, 2008 (6:41 pm)

    I’m all for tax credits… anything that will help get the all electric drive on the the road… I drove a EV1 for two days in LA … have been wanting a electric car ever since. Japan keeps all US autos out of Japan by adding at least $12K to every car the US tries to import. I say we do the same to their cars coming here. We even let them build plants in the US and pay no US taxes which gives them a $2K advantage per car over GM and FORD.. I don’t think the incentives should include the Japanese… they would never give incentive in Japan to buy American cars.


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    noel park

     

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    Feb 19th, 2008 (12:05 pm)

    PJK, #87:

    I could not agree with you more.


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    Steve Holtzclaw

     

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    Feb 19th, 2008 (4:28 pm)

    As a 2 time Honda Insight and current Prius owner and recipient of several previous tax incentives, I can attest that I would never have left “Buying American” if the less than intelligent leadership of US auto manufacturers had listened to our pleas earlier. I will buy a Volt sight unseen as soon as it becomes available. While tax incentives are welcome, I would much rather see the entire tax code thrown out along with the unconstitutional legislators that use taxes to manipulate our activities. Fair Tax 2008 …. go, go, go.


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    Mark Bartosik

     

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    Feb 19th, 2008 (11:55 pm)

    Clarification:

    The $4000, that Jay Inslee talks of was in the 2007 Energy bill, and republicans in the Senate sold that out (as well as solar and wind tax credits) in favor of oil exploration tax credits.

    Jay’s bill has a $3000 credit. However, it is not so easy for less senior members of Congress to get bills passed. So don’t hold your breath for that to get passed.


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    Need My Volts Now

     

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    Feb 20th, 2008 (10:28 am)

    I would love to see a substantial tax credit on the Volt but chances are there will be a little one that will hardly make a difference. I also think GM will again shoot itself in the foot again by dragging its feet and let several other foreign car manufactures deliver the working plug in cars to the American public NEXT YEAR. By the time 2011 comes rolling around the market will be saturated by the other brands that it will not have a long production life. Why you ask— GM has this absurd belief that the American Car Buyer does not want something economical or environmentally sound. My last attempt to purchase a hybrid Vue at a Saturn dealership was quite interesting. The sales man did everything he could to talk me out of the hybrid Vue, telling me it is not worth it and I really would not get the benefit of the Hybrid unless I was going to keep it for more than a few years. I told Him that is what I really wanted and he told me that the gas mileage really was not that much of a difference from the regular gas engine. I then went to a Chevy dealership and pretty much heard the same story with one exception that the hybrid I was looking at was a Yukon and even with it being a hybrid the actual gas mileage wasn’t any better than 20 at best. HELLLO GM I am looking for 30+ MPG. There is a very limited array of GM cars that get that kind of gas mileage. If the VOLT were out now I would have three of them sitting in my driveway.


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    Jim I

     

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    Feb 20th, 2008 (10:55 am)

    Car salesmen try to sell you what they have on the lot, so they get their commission now.

    If they have to order you a car, then they have to wait to get paid.

    They really do not care what you want, they just have to close the sale ASAP.


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    Tim Oakley

     

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    Feb 21st, 2008 (5:00 pm)

    Wake up america, tax credits,(Incentives,…) fed. funding grants for research (on existing products) with no returns expected, will have to end. Pure research is worth the effort (space program cir. 60′s). Advanced materials were the result. Can you say: Electronics, glass ware, biomed. inst.. We are being mis-led by “Industry”, remember: crashworthiness standards (passenger compartment penetration, etc.) seatbelts, catalytic converters, airbags. All mandated as with a time limit for introduction in new vehicles. California’s ZEV was designed with an existing vehicle (EV-1) not vaporware. We are innovators, give us a problem to solve it will happen. GM used faulty batteries in gen.1 (delco’s), then Ovonics in gen.2 (50 mile range with short lived batt.s to 120 mile range with -> 10 year life). EX; Toyota Rav4-EV has a 100,000 mile club ( the few that did not get crushed). Federal reg.s should specify this as a min. in 2 years with a penalty of $xx per vehicle after due date. CAFE should be 40 mpg by 2020 cars, light trucks 30 mpg, heavy vehicles are already good but can get better (owners look at operating costs as well as purchase price). It is possible. We are addicted to OIL (have you seen GM tv commercial with the fuel logo’s about a car that does not exist.) I support buy american in this order (US co. mfr.d in US, US co for. mfr.d). My next vehicle will be 100% electric, I wish for US co. I have sent Email to Ford ( I own 2 Ford vehicles purch. new) stating this. I liked GM’s EV-1. I tell auto sales people this when i see them. I tell Citizens everywhere Buy US first (where will you work while you pay for that foreign item) Electric vehicles are possible, See: Tesla, Tzero, Solectria (they ran from boston to NY city on one charge in //’94) small co.’s making a difference, large co.’ selling more SUV.s. I wait for the VOLT (large batt.s, they are out there. ), or another US vehicle. But if I have to I will convert one of my own. I have already converted my housboat. 2mpg -> 33 mpg eq. Thank you for listening.