We patiently wait for the Volts to be built, and hope they will be available late 2010 as promised. We have heard for months that GM hopes to produce Volts in the tens of thousands; in fact 60,000 was a number tossed around previously (see post), and exec will tell you themselves they would be happy to sell them in the millions.
We are also aware that the first production models may have to roll out slowly with plans to ramp up to scale as demand requires.
Yesterday an article cited the Hawaii Automobile Dealers Association as reporting they expect to have 200 Chevy Volts in 2010.
Does this mean GM is actually orchestrating the geography of the initial rollouts or is it just a baseless claim. I cannot say based on any discussions I have had.
What do you think?
Source (The Honolulu Advertiser)
Thanks to Lyle L. for the tip!
This entry was posted on Saturday, February 2nd, 2008 at 6:00 am and is filed under Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (7:05 am)i think the news is sparce today…
Feb 2nd, 2008 (8:17 am)Lyle, I hope I’m not stealing your thunder by posting news links but here is one from boston.com dated today. The writer talks with Ric Fulop, A123 Systems.
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2008/02/02/in_volt_an_all_electric_pioneer/
Feb 2nd, 2008 (8:30 am)Some days ago someone mentioned starting a trend of the # of people on the waiting list. I started one in early Dec and here are the weekly #’s if anyone is interested in looking at them. I think we will be at 20k in no time.
12/9/2007 6404
12/15/2007 6922
12/22/2007 7343
12/29/2007 7686
1/5/2008 8500
1/12/2008 8978
1/19/2008 9601
1/26/2008 10003
2/2/2008 10920
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:00 am)Nice article mmcc. Thanks.
The Hawaiian article is interesting. I don’t know much about Hawaii but I wonder if they receive a certain percentage of new cars. If they do, that could be where the 200 number came from. This is pure speculation though. To my knowledge, GM doesn’t know how many Volts they are going to build exactly. I have heard 60,000 or 100,000.
So I doubt anyone knows how many any dealer is getting at this point in time.
My babbling is over.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:01 am)Jim said “i think the news is sparce today…”
I think it’s kinda sparse, too.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:04 am)Thanks mmcc, I wondered where were the numbers and thanks for the link. And have you seen the GM share quote the last days ? +2,73% yesterday. The financial slump does not seem bother GM share quotes (does the news about the development path for the Volt explain part of this ?) and a last news on the market (7 hours ago) is : GM sales up, Ford & Toyota down, Look previsions are not always correct, Toyota seems to loose terrain.
See link :
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?Feed=AP&Date=20080202&ID=8128850&Symbol=GM
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:15 am)And this, sorry I pushed the submit button too early :
GM Expects To Make ‘Tens Of Thousands’ Of Plug-In Volts
(…)
“We are not doing the Volt to sell 500 or 1,000 of these. We’re talking about tens of thousands of vehicles,” GM Vice President of Global Program Management Jonathan Lauckner said at a forum on plug-in electric vehicles here.
Lauckner told reporters afterward he is “encouraged” by the results of initial tests GM engineers have performed on a lithium-ion battery that is being developed for the Volt. (…)
“We’ve run an extensive number of tests, and we’re fairly confident that we’re going to be in very good shape on the 40 miles of EV (electric vehicle) range,” he said.
Thursday January 31st, 2008 / 21h40
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:21 am)Sorry for the source for #7, it refuses to be copied and when I write it in full the submission is not uploaded,
Hint : type in the words : Lauckner and Mainz in the advanced search of Google, normally its the first reference.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:22 am)mmcc #3. Thanks for those numbers. It really jumped the week after it hit 10,000.
You said, “I think we will be at 20k in no time.”.
I agree. I think the bigger the number gets, that faster it will increase.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:53 am)I think GM should allow GM-VOLT.com waitlist members have the first opportunity to order and take delivery of their Volts. This site has been a huge asset to GM and gives them an insight on how we think and react to issues and developments related to this car. We are truly passionate about this car and what it means. We would be the best people to inform others of what we are driving because you know many people will come up to us and ask about the car.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (10:27 am)10 ROMI
I totally agree!
Feb 2nd, 2008 (10:34 am)On a sidenote, supposedly Tesla is offering both a BEV and R-EEV version of it’s Whitestar sedan to compete with the Volt. Wouldn’t it be great if GM did the same? Just a thought.
http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9863202-54.html?tag=recentPosts
Feb 2nd, 2008 (11:04 am)I think that GM should start thinking in terms of a 100K per year. I think the market is going to find the car, but the biggest threat to the success of the Volt is short supply to be filled a few months later by Toyota’s competing product. If GM is on the fence as to the ability to sell 100k, then build contingency by introducing in other markets at the same time.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (11:21 am)10 and 11
I agree also. I think that as soon as GM nails down price and is able to provide photos and dimensions, they should put the car for sale in the form of advanced orders. They can charge $250 to put in an advance order which would apply to the purchase price and could be non-refundable. Additionally, they could allow perspective buyers to visit a prototype in a detroit showroom, a Walt Disney showroom (the GM pavilion) and a Las Vegas showroom.
Heck — charge $500 for the pre-order.
If this works well for them (and I think it will,) they could roll out the car 2-3 months before production by expanding the pre-ordering program to the 300 major US markets (1 car per market at a trusted dealership.) At this point, lower the price of the pre-order to about $100.
GM has an opertunity to make this the most successful new car introduction in their history — and I’m willing to help.
Here’s another thing — GM should be working with the 10 largest electrical utilities in America to see if they are willing to kick in $500-$1000 per car.
I think also that many large American companies would be willing to buy some of these in pre-order format as fleet vehicles and executive cars.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (12:07 pm)3mmc:
Wow!
14Wise Golden:
Amen!
Feb 2nd, 2008 (12:19 pm)#13 Wise Golden:
I think you are correct …there will be a huge demand for the Volt. In my opinion, GM should start production at 300,000 or 400,000 annually. Americans are sick and tired of relying on petroleum for a number or reasons (high cost, pollution, trade deficits, unrest in Middle East, etc.). GM needs to steal the show from the get go. Build it and they will come!!!
Feb 2nd, 2008 (12:24 pm)Where has the waiting list total been moved too on this new website lay-out???
Feb 2nd, 2008 (12:29 pm)My Volt project for yesterday afternoon was to send e-mails to my Senators and US Rep. asking for tax credits for the Volt. I commented on this on the thread below referring to the excellent comment by Mark in WI, #55.
My theme was that tax credits of about $3400 for Toyota and Honda hybrids were appropriate and had clearly helped to accelerate public acceptance. Since the Volt will get easily twice the mileage, and be produced in the USA by a US company with US workers, obviously an even larger subsidy would be in order. I modestly proposed $10,000 (ahem, ahem).
I think that, if all of the 10,000+ people on the waiting list sent similar e-mails, it might (would) create quite a buzz in Congress. Again, GM lobbyists are fine, but grassroots buzz is better.
Come on GM, how can we coordinate this with you?
I personally plan to follow up with additional short e-mails at least twice a month. It’s really easy, and only takes a few minutes. I daresay that every one of you is more computer literate than I am. Maybe you can figure out ways to leverage this effort. Thanks.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (12:30 pm)For one thing, we could refer them to this blog, which I didn’t think to do.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (12:59 pm)Lyle:
When you talk to folks from GM, will you ask them about this idea? I think that this is something concrete which we could be working on while we wait for the Volt.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (1:39 pm)I think we will see 2 different battery packs, very much like the EV1 1999 model, one will be LG chem. and the other 123. I bet the LG chem. will be the 40 mile one, and the 123 will give you about 60 miles. This way they will split the costs and give options. the LG chem. will mostlikely be the one around 30k and then the 123 will be around 35k. It makes some since that way those that want more range will help pay for the lower cost version. We will see.
I think the roll out will be similar to the project driveway, since they have service departments in those areas that handle the H2 cars, they will have the tools to handle those cars.
My guess that those of us that don’t live on the coasts will see them in 2011.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (2:01 pm)19 Mark H
ATTN GM!
Your idea, Mark, of offering EITHER an A123 or an LG Chem -based battery is very insightful! It seems entirely possible to me that the A123 cells (which employ nanotechnology) might have substantially higher energy density than the more conventional LG Chem cells ….thus your hunch that the A123 battery could have much longer range (say 60 miles) & that it very probably costs more seems like be a pretty good hunch.
ALSO, offering EITHER battery as an option (for “40 mi” or “60 mi” gas-free ranges) could help address a problem I’m truly concerned about ….that BOTH battery supplier’s full manufacturing capacities may be needed to allow GM to meet the huge market demand for Volts!
Feb 2nd, 2008 (2:02 pm)Noel Park #16 :
Some news about tax rebates in Europe, note that 1 Euro = more or less1.47 US $ today.
In Belgium : Income tax rebate (directly paid on purchase of the vehicle) of 15 % of the purchase price (with a maximum of 3,280 €) if CO2 emissions are lower than 105 gr/km
It’s 3% of the purchase price with a maximum of 615 € if if CO2 emissions are lower than 115 gr/km,( that’s what I got two years ago when I bought my Opel Corsa with a 1.3l turbodiesel engine).
There is a law proposal of a subsidy of 4,000 € if the main propulsion is electric and the E-range is “sufficient”.
More info for other countries on :
http://www.avere.org/state_subsidies.pdf
Feb 2nd, 2008 (2:48 pm)Noel @ 16,
Good suggestion on lobbying. It would help if you pasted what you wrote so we wouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel.
Lyle, what about a new spot for lobbying efforts?!
Feb 2nd, 2008 (2:55 pm)Tesla is rolling out – this is great news for Volt. The next 3 years will be very exciting.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (3:01 pm)#16 Noel
Great idea. My project for today was to place a 2-line ad in the local newspaper, used car/Chevy section:
Join the EVolution
http://WWW.GM-VOLT.COM
It will run for a week and should cost less than $10 if memory serves. They were closed today so will find out Monday on the cost.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (3:07 pm)Maybe I wrong, but I thought that I read somewhere that the rollout of the Volt supposed to occur in the US and Canada simultaneously (Europe and Asia to follow). I’m sure that GM has plans on what percentage of Volts to send to which regions, but I imagine that it is premature to have actual numbers, as they still cannot be sure when [1] full-scale manufacturing will start, and [2] how fast they can produce them.
As for #16 Noel Park – I suggest you sent up an online petition, collect digital “signatures”, then submit to your senator and representative.
In Canada, the federal government offers an EcoAuto Rebate which provides a rebate of $1000 to $2000 on fuel efficient vehicles. Various provinces also offer rebates, typically a discount on the provincial sales tax. One year ago, the BC provincial government said that it will work to cut greenhouse gas emissions by at least 33 percent below current levels by 2020 … so I’m sure that some major incentives for very low (or zero) emissions vehicles will be forthcoming.
Finally, with the Canadian and American dollars trading at “par”, I hope that GM doesn’t decide to try and sell the Volt for more in Canada than the US. For the past few years, this has been a policy of US and Japanese cars makers when selling cars in Canada. This has recently caused some Canadians to end off buying their “new cars” in the US (in which case they are not eligible for the above noted rebates).
Feb 2nd, 2008 (3:15 pm)Hmmmm..
I hope that GM is gearing up for 2 million e-revs per year.
Not just the iconic Volt but the markets that will want SUV’s, larger Saloons, Vans.
I cant put a formula on mmcc’s growth figures but this site may be able to take the first years production alone.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (3:26 pm)I got my toy Volt today, and I’ve got to say I really don’t like the way it looks. The roof looks like it has been squished down. I had the same impression from the pictures, but I thought it might have just been the way it looked in the photos. And what are those transparent things above the door? Are they the windows? Whatever they are, it makes the Volt look weird.
I think they need to raise the roof, make the door window line match the hood line and get rid of that weird bulge in the windows. If they do that, I think it would look pretty good.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (3:45 pm)I Hope GM is gearing of for millions of units world wide.
In Australia we want to buy them too and if they don’t delivery we may have to purchase the oposition Toyota Plug in Prius
I prefer the GM Volt, but people will buy what is available.
I hope this won’t be case in Australia & other non USA countries where Toyota will be in a position to supply and GM will not be geared up yet.
There is definetly a market for the volt type vehicle worldwide as long as it can fit 4-5 people and the marketing is done riight !
Summary,
GM should do a multi country launch with the Volt’s drive train to avoid Toyota taking advantage.
GM’s Volt advertising better feature a cool sexy green image / young hip famouse people promoting the many many advantages with also a patriotic side line thrown in for the USA.
GM profit & image would be on the up
Feb 2nd, 2008 (4:40 pm)30 AusMartin,
Yes, that sums it up.
The Volt is an icon, a symbol of peoples determination to get off oil
as a transport fuel.
As a icon it should be unique so I think a polycarbonate roof with a electrochromic glass veneer is great, and all the other fancy gizmos..
We will probably need other icons but above all we need scale.
GM can do it if they try.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (4:43 pm)As I’ve stated all along, I think the geographic roll out of the Volt should start about a year or so before the car is ready, and It should start with GM-VOLT’s sign up list.
A year or so before rollout, some GM team should start processing that list starting in a FIFO manner and contact the individuals on the list to make arrangements for sales. Obviously there will be some dropout, but I believe that by and large most will opt in.
At that point, each individual who makes arrangements for a purchase generates an order to GM deliverable to his/her local Chevy dealership, just as if you walked in to a dealership and “ordered” a car. This might also be processed through the dealership, the difference being that in 3 years there won’t be enough Volts for walk-ins and the preference will go to those on the list until it’s been completed. I think this would be the RIGHT thing to do.
GM shouldn’t have any problem delivering since this car will be built in an existing plant, and all volts will travel to dealerships on the car carrier alongside other vehicles ordered by dealerships. When your car arrives you’ll pick it up at the dealership.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (4:51 pm)AusMartin, you should not be worry mate, GM has a strong hold in Australia with Holden. I do not see a problem you guys having your own Volt either through a Holden version of the Volt such as an Astra Volt or just a Volt Just a thought..
Feb 2nd, 2008 (4:57 pm)Just before we plan the worldwide deployment of the Volt, does anyone have a feel for the training required for the service staff, apart from the risks of electrocution?
Feb 2nd, 2008 (5:05 pm)26mmcc:
Good for you. Thanks.
24 Dave:
Well I commented on their various websites, and the comments sort of get swallowed up without a trace. So each was a bit different as I found time to do them through the PM. I don’t claim to be that much of a writer, and it is always best if the comments are all a bit dirrerent, reflecting the individual words and thoughts of the constituent. They sort of discount “form letters” pretty quickly. So, whoever wants to improve on my poor efforts, more power to you. Having said all that, this is pretty much what I said:
Please create tax credits for purchasers of the new generation of plug in hybrid cars, similar to those which were given to purchasers of current hybrids, such as Toyotas and Hondas. I refer in particular to the Volt, being developed by General Motors.
The Volt will travel 40 miles on batteries before needing any gasoline. If this 40 miles is factored into the EPA city mileage cycle, the mileage rating will be spectacular, well over 100 mpg in my estimation. This will save millions of gallons of imported oil each year.
In addition, the Volt will be made in the USA by a US company, using US workers. This will help our balance of payments and preserve US jobs, both of which are critically important in these troubled economic times.
Credits of up to $3400 were given for Toyotas and Hondas. This was appropriate, as it helped market penetration substantially, which was clearly good public policy at the time. Given that the Volt will get spectacularly better overall fuel economy, and be a homegrown US product, a substantially higher credit would be totally in order. I suggest $10,000. This would help to offset the very high initial cost of the technologically advanced batteries. The resulting increased market penetration would introduce economies of scale, lowering the prices in the future. This has been shown to be true by the dropping prices of the Toyota and Honda hybrids.
A substantial tax credit for the purchase of the Volt would led to decreased dependence on foreign oil, cleaner air, and the creation and retention of US jobs. Please do everything in your power to make it so.
27 David L:
Alas, I’m not smart enough to do that. Also, I know from my own experience that a flood of individual e-mails, letters and/or phone call from individual constituents is much more effective than petitions.
I’ve said it here before, but a wise political operative I know once said that, for each person who will take the trouble to write, e-mail or call, there are several hundred others who agree, but will not take the trouble. That being the case, 10,000 on the gm-volt.com waiting list have the potential power of several million voices. I am dead serious.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (5:48 pm)Damn David, if you are not smart enough, what are you…A genius.That was great. I am going to copy and paste, and will send it to my New York senators right now. Thanks.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (6:20 pm)Noel #35. That was perfect. Hope you don’t mind if I “steal” some of it to use for my congressman. I highly doubt he will listen, but who knows. He can’t hear me if I don’t speak up. So I will give it a try.
And don’t put yourself short. Nice job on the letter.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (6:39 pm)#32 Grizzly –
Great idea. When it comes time to deliver the Volt, I can only hope that GM will consider the impact that this site has had.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (7:52 pm)We might also consider including our local City/State governments by persuading councils/legislators to offer a waiver on sales tax and yearly registration taxes.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (8:25 pm)I received my Volt model just a few minutes ago. It is smaller than I thought it would be. The front doors open and the car is attached to a pedestal. I like it and will put on my desk at work.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:02 pm)The latest from EV World’s web site:
GM’s global programs veep says the federal government needs to get plugged-in, so to speak, and realize that tax incentives are going to be necessary to get people to buy the first generation of advanced technology electric vehicles – cars such as the Chevrolet Volt.
Without tax rebates or write-offs, the vehicles are simply going to be too expensive for most people and demand will never get to the point that economies of scale kick in and technology costs drop, GM’s John Lauckner said during an energy forum this week at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
Despite the costs, GM still intends to launch its eagerly anticipated Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid car with a bang – “tens of thousands” of vehicles – rather than a whimper. “It’s not a niche market,” he said.
That’s not news – GM executives have said all along that they planned a hefty roll-out for the Volt.
What’s important is that the company is still saying it and, in speeches such as Lauckner’s, publicly sticking to its guns about starting production in2010 – albeit the end of the year rather than the beginning, which could mean introduction of the car as a 2012 model early in 2011.
Lauckner said battery costs for vehicles such as the Volt, which will rely on lightweight lithium ion batteries that are still under development, will be very high initially but will fall as technology improves and volume grows.
Auto and battery industry experts estimate that it now costs about $1,500 for each 10-mile increase in a hybrid or all-electric vehicle’s range on battery power alone.
The Volt, as repeatedly described by GM officials since its introduction as a concept car at the January 2006 Detroit Auto Show, uses an electric drive system and gets its power from a lithium ion battery pack that can be recharged by plugging in to a standard household outlet. An on-board, gasoline-fueled engine generates power for the motor and for recharging the batteries when the initial “plug-in” charge is depleted.
GM has said it expects to configure the car with enough battery power to run for 40 miles on that initial charge before the gasoline engine-generator would start operating. It would then run, providing electricity for the drive motor and the batteries, for about 40 miles, shutting down when the battery pack was fully recharged and able to power the electric motor by itself. The cycle would repeat until the car was parked and plugged in for an overnight recharge.
Although both Ford and Chrysler are testing pluig-ins as well, not all carmakers have jumped on the wagon. A Honda hybrid specialist told the forum that there still are too many issues of cost, reliability, efficiency and demand to warrant jumping whole-heartedly into plug-ins at the expense of other technologies including conventional hybrids, and improved-efficiency gas and diesel engines.
But for GM it is a matter of pride as well as of profit and growth. The carmaker has lost a huge share of its domestic market to Japanese automakers and has just lost its long-held title as the world’s largest automaker to Toyota Motor Corp.
It sees a successful plug-in as a means of boosting interest in its products and is racing to beat to market with the world’s first mass produced plug-in hybrid.
The Japanese car company has said it will launch its own plug-in hybrids in 2010, but only for sale or lease to businesses and government agency fleets.
Because they can run for a sustained period on battery power alone, plug-ins can post impressive fuel economy numbers – 60 miles per gallon or more depending on how often the gas generator kicks in – and are being positioned as one way to help reduce the nation’s gasoline use and dependence on imported crude oil.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:04 pm)I just wrote my senators. I think Noel is correct about the potential impact we can have. Lyle, perhaps you could put together a front page entry on how we can help with this. I think if it is made easy enough, we could get a good percentage of those visiting the site to write.
Here’s a page i found that will help you contact your senators…
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:06 pm)oops, #41 was from Edmunds.com NOT EV world, sorry, JD
Feb 2nd, 2008 (9:19 pm)wirenutjd #42 – what are you talking about?
Feb 2nd, 2008 (10:12 pm)I received my Volt model car today as well. Does anyone have any magic water to sprinkle on it to make it life size? It will be proudly displayed in my office at work.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (10:21 pm)I got mine too, I found the box on my doorstep but I was on my way to work and haven’t looked at it yet.
Feb 2nd, 2008 (10:27 pm)44Jimmy
My 1/32 Volt hasn’t arrived yet but here’s an excellent photo of it thanks to another guy/another thread here at gm-volt.com…..
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/whalemangler/Feb08016.jpg
He didn’t say whether it has a power cord (for lights?) or he added it. Does anybody know if the model Volt is a plug-in?
Feb 2nd, 2008 (10:30 pm)PS: Left click the photo to enlarge it
Feb 3rd, 2008 (12:00 am)ok, I have to ask – what is that thing on the table by the Volt in the picture????
Feb 3rd, 2008 (12:16 am)#46 nasaman:
Unfortunately, it is not a plug-in. I like the effect though. I can’t wait for the real thing.
Feb 3rd, 2008 (3:06 am)I can’t remember if this info was posted in the last few weeks, the story is dated Jan 4, but it’s about a new solar collector developed at the Idaho National Lab… interesting.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/7497/
Feb 3rd, 2008 (10:41 am)mmcc, #51. Thanks for that link. I haven’t seen it before.
My brother-in-law recently left the Idaho National Laboratory.
He worked there for a while. I will ask him if he knows anything about this that he can freely talk about.
Feb 3rd, 2008 (4:34 pm)Got my Volt. Wasn’t sure how big 1:32 for a vehicle was, here are some pictures.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/mkepalmer/DSCN0001.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/mkepalmer/DSCN0016.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/mkepalmer/DSCN0015.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j202/mkepalmer/DSCN0020.jpg
Feb 4th, 2008 (1:12 pm)36Haid D’Salaami:
Thanks for your kind words, and for taking the trouble to contact your Senators. It all counts.
37Rashiid:
By all means, steal away. It’s a very nice compliment. Thank you. Don’t worry, they listen. One letter may or may not make a big impression, but when they get 3 or 4 or 10 on the same subject, they start to realize that something’s going on.
39LyleL:
Excellent point. I just saw something the other day about a small city in Northern California that is giving a $6000 plus incentive to residents to buy a Honda natural gas Civic (!). they also offer another $2000 if you get the home refuelling gadget. So it can and does happen.