Grab our RSS Feed

Breaking: Chevy Volt A123/Continental Prototype Lithium-ion Battery Pack Delivered!

January 31st, 2008 | Posted in: Battery, Production

The next major Volt milestone has been achieved.

GM has confirmed receiving the first Chevy Volt specific lithium-ion prototype battery pack from the Continental/A123 Systems production team. The pack was delivered to GM’s Mainz Kastel laboratory in Germany on the morning of January 31st.

GM already has at least two prototype packs from the LG Chem/Compact Power production team since the first was delivered on October 31st.

The Conti/A123 pack was expected in January and is thus on-time, therfore keeping the entire vehicles production schedule on track.

GM had planned to evaluate both teams packs until this summer when they will decide on moving either one or both towards production.

Todays is an extremely important landmark in the Chevy Volt development story as it further validates the concept, now that two independent teams have shown they can build properly behaving 16kWh lithium-ion packs.

Popularity: 6%

(15 votes, average: 4.8 out of 5)

Loading ...

Posted by: Lyle

93 Responses to “Breaking: Chevy Volt A123/Continental Prototype Lithium-ion Battery Pack Delivered!”

Sentinel Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 7:50 pm

Truly good news!!! I can’t wait to hear some test results!!!
Brian M Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:06 pm

GM truly has a great bunch of engineers at the Mainz-Kastel site. Here’s to hoping the A123 packs will impress us.
Rashiid Amul Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:10 pm

I hope that waiting until the last day means the battery is perfect.

Congrats A123 and GM! Go Volt!
Mike756 Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:11 pm

Great news, can’t wait to see how it performs.
AES Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Get some photographs, please!

Interesting how it got delivered to GM Europe instead of GM North America. Shows how global an effort this is. At the same time though - are they going to be doing the evaluation of the Conti pack in Germany instead of in Detroit? Might make sense to help keep either team focused on their test subject, provided they have the exact same test criteria.
AES Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:50 pm

FYI, it seems that the Mainz-Kastel facility was originally one of GM’s fuel cell development labs.
Grizzly Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:58 pm

So Lutz was right in his last comment. It WAS definitely on it’s way.
This is good news since there needs to be at least 2 in contention IMHO.

Now if my 1:32 would get here .
GM Toyota Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:59 pm

Breaking news: GM lost 78 billions dollars in the last quarter and failed to seek equity-backed loans from major bank and is burning 115 millions dollars per day, Bob Lutz is fired, so is other 3,000 employees from its Warren Technical Center, GM is also negotiating to sell Shanghai SAIC GM to SAIC of China, Holden (Australia) to PSA of France, Opel to Volkswagen, Saab to Renault, and its Russian entity to Fiat. Chapter 7 filing is expected on Monday.
Associated Press contributed to this story.
David G Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

Part of a post I left on another forum, it seems relevant here.

As a business, I would like to see the battery priced separately, as I think it could be classified as a consumable (100% tax deductible) based on Tesla Motors claim of “replacement needed after 5 years or 100,000 km whichever comes first”. Certainly, GM’s Lobbyists should be pushing for this kind of interpretation in the tax code. It would really help fleet sales!!!!!!!!!!

Great site Lyle. Way to go A123.
Brian M Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:04 pm

To answer AES, #6,

GM’s advanced Powertrain work is headquartered in Warren, MI and there are satellite sites in Honeoye Falls, NY (mostly the actual fuel cell technology), Torrance, CA (power electronics and electric motors), and Mainz-Kastel, Germany (system integration, vehicle packaging, etc.).

The inclusion of the fuel cell work in GM Powertrain is a recent change (last year - I believe there is a thread about it on this site), and has helped to integrate fuel cell work with hybrid and EV work.
David G Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:08 pm

#8 GM Toyota

You are telling lies. This is illegal.
Jimmy Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

#8 GM Toyota:

You can be sued for slander for your statements in addition to several other criminal offenses. Someone should call the FBI on this loser.
Statik Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:23 pm

#8

Another legendary post…nice work.

Tip: make your ‘Chapter 7′ filings nonesense farther than a few days off (maybe you should read some Bob Lutz posts, he is a master at saying both nothing and something about sometime in the future).

I know GM is in a bad way…but your post is quite ‘nonsensical’ (I can use that word if you can say ‘78 billions dollars’)

Seeing how the stock has rebounded 10 percent this week, and still has a 16 billion dollar market cap. I guess I have to assume you are a insider and you are disclosing insider information and are in violation of S.E.C. regulation FD, in which case I guess the SEC will have some questions for you on monday…or you are full of crap.

PS) GM has 44 billion in cash and short term receivables…they could lose 115 million a day for 400 days before the well runs dry.
Drake Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:27 pm

This is great news. Toyota is lining up battery suppliers for their E-REV/PHEV too. One way or another we will be driving PHEVs soon.

It’s really happening folks.

Viva la Volt!
Brian M Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:28 pm

Let’s not litter this wonderful blog with garbage. Just ignore him and he will quit eventually.
Jimmy Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:40 pm

On a positative note …this is great news. Hopefully the Contintental / A123 batteries work as well as everyone expects. I wish the Volt was available today. I just added up how much I spent on gas last year. Wow. I sent over $10,000 just on gas. The gas was used by myself, my wife, and my son. My wife and I each drove about 15,000 miles last year while my 18 year old son drove 25,000 miles. Maybe I should just take the car away from him.
TomW Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Hey GM Toyota “Man”, you really got to teach all of us constructive, positive people on this blog to do what you do. Open your “mouth” and have stoopid stuff come falling out. Keep it up, your good for a laugh and a dose of the unreality that you live in. The count down is on for everyone else on the site!!! Sixty odd days till Easter! I cannot wait till I see pictures of this car rolling around Michigan, (and maybe Germany too?) I don’t know if I can afford one (1st gen), but I am keeping POSITIVE that this will work, and it will change the world as far as the future of the automobile!
Mikro Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:48 pm

I’m staring at the picture of the battery wondering how big that is drawings show the battery taking up the center of the car unless these battery modules are combined in series to produce the pack shown in the concept pictures the picture a bit confusing but it’s great news everything buzzing along at shocking speeds :p
Keith Rogers Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:58 pm

January 31st… glad they got it by the end of the month!
Grizzly Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:34 pm

Mikro #17

I think that’s an old picture, because the spec calls for a “T” shaped battery that should be exactly the same size as LG chem’s.

However, since I don’t think either will go into Mules, I could be wrong.

Anyone know? Hopefully we’ll get a picture here soon.
voltman Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:38 pm

Thats an old pic. Its one of the many that will go in the t shaped well (they stack side by side with the gold tips up).
Rooster Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:43 pm

Wow, A123/Continental already has a firm grasp on the JIT inventory concept…these guys learn fast!
Mikro Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:44 pm

19Grizzly thanks I figured it out that’s it as the Name says A123 I read up on it the picture is one cell of a 123 cells that make up the Battery pack for the Chevy Volt.
David G Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:47 pm

# 17 & #19

The picture is of a single prismatic cell.
Obviously they would line them up to fit the “T”.

Cheers
nasaman Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:55 pm

19 Grizzly & 17 Mikro

The photo Lyle used at the top of this thread is a *single* A123 cell; the entire pack would most likely look very similar to the previous photo of the complete pack delivered by LG Chem more than a month ago (as you imply, Grizzly).

It’s very likely, IMO, that BOTH of the competing “T-shaped” battery packs will be installed in Volt mules ….or else follow-on packs from both suppliers manufactured soon after these first packs were delivered will be used for mule testing.
Mikro Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:58 pm

21DavidG You can read up on the A123 over at the site
http://www.a123systems.com/ It doesn’t look like a T but a box with cooling fans and a 3 pin plug that plug into the car also test results that shows how GM knows it can do 40 miles per charge.
Grizzly Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:59 pm

NASA,

Thanks. Depending on how you look at it it looks like a huge square battery, especially when gaged against that tire behind it.

I was also thinking they might have just submitted a battery regardless of shape with the correct specific output characteristics for bench testing and then submit another later, but that would probably be a waste of time, which is of the essence.
Be There For the Cure Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 11:58 pm

http://www.a123systems.com/#/applications/phev/pchart6/

Here comes the deep strike against the Sheiks….

After the initial model, come the cheaper models with less range, and more expensive models with more range. And figure an ebbing manufacturing cost tide…

40% of US transportation oil consumption here, 30% of consumption there, pretty soon, you are talking real reductions in foreign oil.

This and a 100 nuclear plants and you would never here any more about peak oil.
Kel Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 8:25 am

@ ‘Everyone’ for ‘GM Toyota’ comments

Obvious troll is obvious
Eco Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 8:49 am

“The project is proceeding as planned” is great news. And mules will be working in the summer. Congratulations to the companies, and their employees.
Neil Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 9:26 am

Don’t feed the trolls.
Firefly Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am

1)GM is still in the right track…

2)the Volt is still cool…

3)GM Toyota has officially replaced George W. Bush as the biggest crap talker…and

4)GM Toyota has beaten Britney Spears as the first person so ignorant that he has officially lost custody of himself…thanks for leveling the playing field. With all of these intellectual thinkers and positive posters in here, I thought we’d be devoid of ignorance. Thank you for tipping the scales evenly in favor of those with low IQ’s. They would be proud.

God bless America
Jason The Saj Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:02 am

I still prefer REEV to E-REV.

And have since discovered others do as well. I think they’re trying to keep with the E-FLEX system. But I think that’s a bad idea.

They’ll gain more word of mouth marketing if they switch to REEV. For the mere fact that I am never going to fondly say it’s an E-REV vehicle. Too wordy…

But man, it’s so catchy to say it’s a REEVer. And that little gem of ease to slip the term off of one’s tongue translates into uber-catchy free marketing.

- The Saj
Haid D' Salaami Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:08 am

I am really getting annoy of these jans and chans and their brainless comments. I am really trying to keep my cool, but one thing they are doing is making me to repugnance anything that have to do with them. This is a site to discuss the development of a car the world is longing for because in some way we are killing the only planet we have. I see lot of us here giving credit to Toyota, Honda for their effort, but you are out of line and your hatred, and senseless comments are making me stronger that my next car will bear an American brand. Thanks Lyte for your great work. GM, if you build it, we will drive it. GM, lead the way. Good luck Giants.
Sentinel Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:12 am

@ #33

I agree Jason, REEV is a much more catchy term.

You can REEV up your Volt with out a drop of gas.
Plug it in, REEV it up, no gas required.
Be part of the REEVolution!!!

You get the idea…
Estero Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:28 am

I still like RxEV!
Estero Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:30 am

I agree with #34 Haid D’Salaami!
David G Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am

#26 Mikro
http://www.a123systems.com/#/applications/phev/pchart4/
http://www.hymotion.com/index.htm
This is a picture of the range extender as sold by Hymotion. The photo for this post appears to be a single intregrated battery module. Going by the figures of 7 times range extender for the Prius, I estimate you would need about 40 - 50 for the Volt.
David Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 12:18 pm

Great news. I’m excited to hear the test results.
Tim Oliver Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

I have a question about the battery and forgive me if this has been answered before. First a statement. My wife and I bought a Prius last year (which we love) and the car gets better gas mileage in warm weather because the battery needs to “warm up” (for lack of better understanding) to work efficiently. Now the question: Considering that the first 40 Miles for the Volt are all electric, does the temperature come into consideration with regard to the efficiency of the battery? Or is this battery impervious to temperature differences?

And now a second statement…. I want a Volt!
AES Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pm

@Tim Oliver-

I haven’t seen temperature performance curves for either of the battery chemistries that GM is implementing (at least insofar as how temperature affects in/out electrical efficiency or power). Generally speaking though, lower temperatures do tend to decrease any battery’s power. The folks at the Killacycle project (who also use A123 cells) actually HEAT their batteries to above ambient and keep them wrapped in a blanket in between drag strip runs. That way they keep them at prime power temperature. Your prius batteries seem to be the opposite situation.

If GM incorporates heating elements and insulation in addition to cooling systems for the battery pack, this could be minimized though.

ps- sell your prius when the volt comes out
David L Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

#40 Tim Oliver:
… the car gets better gas mileage in warm weather because the battery needs to “warm up” (for lack of better understanding) to work efficiently…

Just curious, what is the temperature range (winter/summer) where you live. I live on the West coast on Canada where average daytime temperate is 5 C to 25 C (41F to 77F). (It rarely freezes.) I assuming that this temperature range is “less harsh” on a battery than most other parts of North America.
Jeff M Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Bigger news than this from a Reuters article yesterday….

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN3133952220080131?sp=true

GM plans large run of all-electric Chevy Volt
Wise Golden Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm

Lyle — this is a great site. It’s none of my business to tell you this, but take the following for how it is intended — an honest suggestion for improving an already superb site.

Edit the trolls. Take their comments off and don’t allow them past moderation. I think one of the bigest mistakes made by quality forums and blogs is a misplaced belief that everyone should be allowed to have a voice. Obviously, #8 has a mental illness and he/she should not be allowed a forum. It would be like allowing a crazy, rambling person to interupt David Letterman’s monolog every night — it just isn’t allowed.

I’m not saying to edit well worded and apropriate on topic disagreement from people who think GM is pulling our leg — rather, I’m saying dump the crazy and let him go bother some other group.

Keep up the good work Lyle. GM — let’s get this thing built and don’t go cheap on production capacity — you’re going to sell a million.
Brian M Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 3:18 pm

#40:

Are you sure its the batteries that “need to warm up”?

A gas engine gets horrible gas mileage for the first 5 minutes of a trip, while it is warming up. That may be the culprit in your case, rather than the batteries.
Brian M Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 3:21 pm

Jeff M, #43:

It looks like the article is talking about the normal Volt with the gas range extender, not an actual all-electric Volt. I think they just chose some weird wording for the title.
noel park Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm

45Brian M:

I agree. That’s my reading as well.
Glenn Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 3:51 pm

Jimmy #16: “Wow. I sent over $10,000 just on gas.”

I figure I spent about $2,500 last year, and that’s with my Honda Fit 31/38 mpg.

I’m hoping the MSRP comes in reasonable for gen. 1, but I’ll probably buy one whatever I have to pay for it. I figure that I’ll just find something to give up. Owning this car is worth sacrificing for.

I think my gas cost will decrease to more like $500/yr. If that proves to be true, I would save $20k over the life of the car (at $3.00/gal.). That’s why its worth whatever the MSRP.

And, Mr Lutz, this will be the first GM car I’ve ever owned.

Go Volt!
Rashiid Amul Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 4:44 pm

#45 Brian M ,and #46 Noel,

I agree also. The wording is strange. But isn’t our Volt all electric anyway because only the electric motor drives the wheels? Or am I playing with semantics?
Larry Parylla Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:07 pm

A few questions
My Lexuas RX400h lease ands in Oct of 2009 so doing and Mods like an extender and plug conversion to a car that will be turned in doesn’t make sense

Will the Volt be in showrooms by Oct 2009?

Or will other makers have the same type car ready by them.

Although I do own a hybrid that I love I really don’t know anything about new research.

I do like the Lexus / Toyota there are things about the NAV system that I hate.
Larry Parylla Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Rashiid Amul

I can thell you one thing about trains. The trains that run on diesel engines are really electric because all the diesel engine does is run an electric generator but it is considered a diesel rain engine. Perhaps the same theoru applies to the Volt
Jim I Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Tim #40: This has been discussed here at length. What we have heard from GM is that there will be a liquid heating and cooling system around the battery pack. But during the current testing cycles, they have not yet hooked those up, and the packs are still running within limits, which is a good sign!

Jeff #43: That article looks to me like GM is about to start making the case for tax incentives to help lower the cost of the Volt to the end user. There really was not much else that we would consider new info….

As to the initial topic, I can’t wait to hear what Denise Gray has to say about the performance of the A123 pack!
Larry Parylla Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:13 pm

The tax issue doesn’t help people that are retired and don’t have enough income to file a tax return.
Grizzly Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:28 pm

It sure seems they’re having some trouble getting any sort of tax credits out of congress. No doubt the strong oil lobby has a part in that, I expected as much.

You’ve really got to hand it to GM for sticking this through. Think about it, how many companies would take a chance like that with technology this new and seemingly (at this time) w/o any help from congress?

We’re going to get this car with or without congress, and regardless of what big oil does.

That’s what I call a leader.
Mark in WI Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pm

Larry #48/51, The earliest available date appears to be 11/2010. Sorry, you’ll have to figure out that 1-year gap. I was in the same position when the current-gen Prius came out in 2004.

Jeff #43, Thanks for the great digg. I certainly hope that the US Gov’t provides direct assitance to GM, tax incentives to consumers, or both, to help promote the Volt. Imported petrol is a huge chunk of our trade deficit. It is in the national interest to lower that deficit and reduce our dependence on foreign oil as much as possible. It would be great if we could take action as a group to push Congress on this topic.
Kevin R Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:41 pm

#8 GM Toyota:

Folks….who is this person? Where does he get his giberish? There’s nothing anywhere on the web, nor at Associated Press about what he speaks.

Lyle…I’m not one for banning but man, his garbage doesn’t have anything to do with the Volt, nor is it in the realm of truthfulness. Opinions are one thing. Falsehoods, distortions, and just plain lying and rabble rousing have no place here. There’s plenty of blogs out there for this one to vent his anger and hatred of whatever he’s angry and hateful at!
Grizzly Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm

Kevin #54

Just a troll. Ignore and he’ll go away.
Robert.V Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Consider how much money the government makes on every gallon of gas you buy. Gas taxes are a HUGE source of income for the government. Then ask yourself “Why would they encourage a vehicle that will take money out of their pockets?”
MikeFromEastCoast Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 6:45 pm

What if there was a “troll” button beside each message that people could click on to notify the moderator of such messages instead of watering down the thread with complaints?
Rockyroad Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 6:46 pm

56RobertV ..
“Consider how much money the government makes on every gallon of gas you buy. Gas taxes are a HUGE source of income for the government. Then ask yourself “Why would they encourage a vehicle that will take money out of their pockets?”

The states also get a source of income from gas taxes. Where will this money come from if we go electric. Income tax ? Sales Tax?
It has to come from somewhere to supprt the existing infrastructure.
Rashiid Amul Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Here is exactly why I want the Volt out asap.

Exxon shatters profit records
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/01/news/companies/exxon_earnings/index.htm?postversion=2008020114

Oil companies need to go away.

And as far as taxes are concerned, the government can stop giving away the money to foreign powers, or lifetime social services, or what not. Give it back to the people who pay the taxes.
Guy Incognito Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm

#56 Robert. V said:
‘Consider how much money the government makes on every gallon of gas you buy.
Gas taxes are a HUGE source of income for the government.
Then ask yourself “Why would they encourage a vehicle that will take money out of their pockets?”’

-You know, I never thought of it that way…
Where will our government get the money it needs to build more bombs and missles and occupy foreign countries.
This is some serious s h i t.
What are wo going to do about this?
Grizzly Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 7:24 pm

Thanks Rashiid,

Besides the “profit margins” there are plenty more reasons in that article to support the Volt. One of them being the comment that exploring for new oil is going to get more “expensive”.

Of course E-M and all other oil companies don’t want the Volt and as I mentioned earlier will do whatever is possible to thwart it. They know as we do that once it’s out there will be no stopping the ball rolling.

Again I give tremendous credit to GM for making this happen, and hope they’ll get some help from Uncle Sam.
David L Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 7:40 pm

#57 MikeFromEastCoast:
… What if there was a “troll” button beside each message …

Great idea! I’ve seen other sites with a “Report this post” type functionality.
Tim Oliver Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm

To # 50. Thanks Jim. That makes sense and it seems like Toyota should have thougth of it for the Prius.

#44. I’m pretty sure that the battery does need to warm up. The car switches back and forth from electric to gas, but the amount of energy from the electric side gets stronger as the car runs for a little bit. Additionally, in cold start ups, the electric side is almost no help at all for the first few minutes, then after a bit, it gets to be pretty strong. I know that gas engines need to warm up before getting great MPG, but you can feel the threshold of the electric to gas switch on the accelerator pedal rise to favor the electric side as the car warms up. And I am referring to speeds under 35 MPH in temps below freezing (Philadelphia climate - 10 to 30 degrees in the morning).

#41 My wife will get the Prius, I’ll get the Volt !! (That sounds like some level of heaven to me)
Haid D' Salaami Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 7:56 pm

“We’re going to get this car with or without congress, and regardless of what big oil does. That’s what I call a leader.” # 52, I agree with you. You Grizzly North America bear, I have been saying all along that we should give credit to GM and support its effort in bringing this car to the people. Whether it is under 30k or 40k, I am getting one and now my girlfriend is in the market for a new car. We were thinking of a Toyota Camry, but lot of thanks to #8, we are getting a Saturn Aura Hybrid instead. I sure other will follow with their support to GM. By the way, The Aura is a nice looking car. We cain’t wait to get it.
Good Luck Giants…
Montana Man Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 8:32 pm

I can’t wait for this car, it will probably be the next car I WANT to buy.
Larry Parylla Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Haid D’ Salaami

Do not trust me on this because I could be wrong so check what I say yourself. I think that the Saturn hybrid is not the same as the Toyota / Lexus. If I remember correctly the Sat will keep the engine running when you are stopped at a light or stopped for traffic. That is the reason I got the Lexus. Please do not trust me because I may be mistaken or my memory can be wrong
mmcc Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm

At some point we will probably have to start paying substantially higher vehicle registration fees to make up for the gasoline tax… but it should take the politicians a couple of years to figure it out.
Brian M Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm

#68:

The Saturn Aura hybrid has “stop-start” functionality, which means it turns off the gas engine when the car is stopped. It has a small battery and a motor in place of the alternator, so accessories are kept running when the engine is off, and can provide a small amount of boost when accelerating. It also recaptures electrical energy through regenerative braking. Here’s a link:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/news/one-hybrid-priced-below-them-all-saturn-aura-green-line-lowest+priced-hybrid-at-22695-245193.php

It’s a very nice car, I would recommend it (I hope you enjoy yours, Haid). Of course I work for GM so I might have a little bit of bias towards it.
Larry Parylla Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:00 pm

Thanks for clearing that up I looked into the Saturn but I wound up getting a Lexus. I got a three year lease because I felt that by the time the lease was over there would be many improvements.

By the way I get about double the MPGs I got with my Jeep. Jeep got about 12 to 16 Lexus 22 to 28. I get better MPGs around town than I do on the interstate. The Lex has 4 wheel drive but is is as good for the deep stuuf as the Jeep. But I just moved from NY to SC so 4WD isn’t that important.
The Anti-Oil Jihadi Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:09 pm

Important progress for the Jihad has occurred. Today is a good day. If one battery design fails, at least another one has a chance to succeed.

death to oil -> http://www.oiljihad.org
Larry Parylla Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 10:21 pm

Brian M

I don’t know how high up you are in GM but I would like to make a complaint that you may be able to do something about.

I have had a lot of GM cars and when I was younger I was GM only. I have owned a lot of Corvettes which were and are great cars, my 1996 and 1998 were both museum delivery. I am willing to put up with some problems with a new car but if there is a problem I expect it to be taken care of in a timely manner. I had a lot of problems with the local dealer and I made a complaint the the zone mannager. I was told that the company has little control over the dealer when it comes to service. I don’t know if the is still true but it was in 1998 and now that I am thinking about a Volt the issue of resolving problems with the dealer makes me a litte concerned. The issue with the 98 Vette was close to 10 years ago so I forgot what the problem was with the dealer. But the way I was treated still bothers me. One other thing that I noticed was service with the Cadillac dealer was top knoch but a Corvette is just a high proced Chevy and you get the same level of service in a $50,000 Vette than you do in a $8,000 Aveo
bill Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 am

I have read in a few posts people wondering where government will get the money to replace the gas taxes. I’m sure that when the tens of billions of dollars stay in our economy instead of going to the middle east the government will find a way to pull their share back out!!!
Brian M Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 am

Larry:

I am a lowly engineer, so sadly I have absolutely no clout.

I couldn’t agree more about the quality of GM dealerships. I wish GM would overhaul the dealership network and get rid of all the oldschool dealers that just try to screw people out of their money. I’m sure there are good ones, but the bad ones give GM a bad rep (by the way, this is true of all the auto companies, not just GM).

I can’t help but think that in the not-too-distant future, people will order a car online and have it delivered to their doorstep, and then have it serviced at a garage, thus cutting the middleman (dealer) out of the equation. Of course, people still want to do test-drives, and people like personal service, so who knows.

As for the Volt, it is well-known that electric motors are much more reliable than IC engines because they have few moving parts. Electronics and battery packs will probably have to be swapped out if there is a problem (rather than a grease monkey digging around trying to fix them). The gas engine won’t get a lot of “miles” if you are doing mostly short trips. So maybe with a Volt you wouldn’t need to visit the dealership very often.
Grizzly Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:06 am

“As for the Volt, it is well-known that electric motors are much more reliable than IC engines because they have few moving parts”

**** ******

I’ve always wondered about the AC electric motor. Will it lose any efficiency like an ICE when it’s got 100K miles on it? Surely the wear won’t be the same because there are no pistons, valve guides, main bearings etc, but can’t moving parts within the motor tire as opposed to just dying? And how many miles will one of these motors like the one that will go in the Volt get before it’s spent?

Thanks
Brian M Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:14 am

I’m not a motor expert, but the only part I can think of that would wear over time would be the bearings, which would probably be a relatively easy fix.

I know there are permanent magnets, so maybe they lose their magnetic properties over time? Honestly I have no idea, just a guess.
Grizzly Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:21 am

Actually I don’t think the motor in the Volt has perm. magnets. I believe that the magnetic fields are induced from coils within the motor and this field can vary. So, if I’m not mistaken there are no rare earth magnets in an AC induction motor, and this is how it performs efficiently at moderate load levels.

Can anyone verify/clarify this?
Brian M Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:24 am

I don’t know what’s planned for the Volt, but I think PM machines are more efficient than induction machines.

But again, I know little about motors so don’t take my word for it.
Haid D' Salaami Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 am

Larry Parylla # 68, Thank for your concern,
But we did research the whole field and the Aura came on top for us. We compered it with the Camry and we decided we were getting more from our $$$ with the Aura than the Camry. I will let you know when I get a chance to really drive it when I take it on I87. Anyway, I am all about the Volt and that will be my new car. If GM buil it, I will drive it.

” Saturn Aura Green Line - the Lowest Priced Hybrid -Certified for $1,300 Tax Credit. The Aura is assembled at the General Motors Fairfax Plant in Kansas City , Kan. , and Green Line hybrid models are beginning to arrive at Saturn retail facilities.

The hybrid system in the Aura combines sophisticated controls with a precise electric motor/generator mated to a 2.4-liter engine. The system delivers fuel economy gains by providing electric power assist during acceleration, through early fuel cut-off during deceleration with torque smoothing and by shutting the engine off at idle. The system also captures electrical energy through regenerative braking. The vehicle’s hybrid powertrain produces 164 horsepower (122 kW) at 6400 rpm and 159 lb.-ft. (215 Nm) of peak torque at 5000 rpm.”
Van Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:07 am

Still waiting to here that the A123/Conti packs arrive at the GM lab in Detroit, where there is a space waiting for them. It sure looks odd to me that space was waiting for the pack, then it is shipped to another site in Germany. But maybe, in order to do testing in parallel with the LG pack, they needed to use another lab.
Larry Parylla Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 am

Well if you consider that generators are basically electric motors and the generators on the Hoover dam have run 24/7/365 for over 50 years, that says to me that if the volt generator / motor is 1/10 or even 1/20 as good the motor should outlast the car.
Wise Golden Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:50 am

Since we have questions on the Saturn Aura Green, I’d like to chime in. I own one (and I am not in any way affiliated with GM.) The car is often compared to a Prius, but they are different types of Hybrids. The Saturn gets a bad rap from some people for not being hybridy enough. The Saturn Aura (not to be confused with any of the GM duel-mode hybrids) will never run entirely on electric. Instead, the car uses regenerative breaking to charge a large battery (not a small battery) which is used to provide power to a 75 HP electric motor. The car has a 4 cyl. ICE of 2.5 liters gererating about 150 HP. The Aura and the Malibue are very large and roomy. I park my Aura next to my wife’s Cadillac DHL in the garage each night and I always notice that the Aura is just a foot shorter. The theory of this type of hybrid is that the system allows a 4000 lb car to be driven effectively with a 4 cyl. engine. By combining the power of the two motors, you have the power of a nice 6 cyl. with the economy of a 4 — at all times (highway and city.) Additionally, the ICE stops when the car is stopped, saving more fuel.

I have driven the car for 13,000 miles now without ever re-setting the Average Milage Counter. I’m at 37.7 MPG for the life of the car in a combination of city and highway driving. That’s very good for a car of this size — very good. I traded a Mercedes 320e for the car, and I like the Aura better — it’s more comfortable, quieter, and a better driving environment. The quality apears to be the same.

The Prius is able to clobber the Aura in milage if driven properly, but it is a much smaller (and more expensive) car. The Camery can beat it too, but again, the Camery is a solid $8k more expensive. I love the Camery/ Prius/ Lexus Hybrid and would encourage anyone to buy one, but if you want a better business decision, look at the Aura/ Malabue. The battery pack on the Aura is guaranteed for 100,000 miles. The Prius (Lexus, Camery) only has a 50,000 mile guarantee. The Aura’s battery pack cost $1500 to replace. The Prius (Lexus, Camery,) cost about $4500.

The Aura that I have will save $9000 in fuel over the first 100,000 miles and I paid $1,800 for the hybrid option. I’m getting a $1,300 tax credit this year which brings the cost of the hybrid option to $500!! Not a bad price to pay to save $9,000 in fuel in 100,000 miles. All this in a car that would be very desirable even in the non-hybrid format. Could the Prius really be cosidered desirable if the hybrid function was not a factor? I’m not knocking the Prius — it’s a hero car, but I’m just saying, it only has one thing (one very important thing) going for it.

The Saturn Aura Hybrid has been declared the highest content American made vehicle. The U.S. made batteries are the key to pushing it to that position. It was 2007 car of the year and in my opinion, highly deserved. I like the new Malibu better.
noel park Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:18 pm

55 Mark in WI:

My project for yesterday afternoon was to send e-mails to my Senators and US Rep. saying basically the same thing you said about tax credits for the Volt. You comment is right on target. I strongly urge you, and others, to send it via e-mail to your representatives in DC. GM lobbyists are fine, but grass roots static is even better.

Hey GM, how can we coordinate this effort with you?
noel park Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Southern California guys. This is where it is all happening. There is a reason why all of the Japanese companies have design studios here. If you can get market penetration here in the face of Japan, Inc., you can get it anywhere.
Larry Parylla Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm

I love my Lexus but I think there will come a time when a hybrid will not be enough. I lived though the long gas lines when gas wasn’t available at any price. I think that when we again have gas shortages it will be a necessaty to have some kind of plug in Volt type vehicle as transportation that will allow us to be gas-less that will at least get us to the grocery store and hopefully back an forth to work. I just hope this things are read to be sold and I have one before there are gas shortaqges. It all happened without warning before. One day you could get gas and the next there were lng lines and signs that said out of gas.
Pete Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Wondering can our power suppliers provide the juice needed in the summer when every one runs thier air conditioners and we all plug our autos in?
Rashiid Amul Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Larry Parylla, #86, I remember those long lines. I was too young to drive but I remember sitting in the back seat of the parent’s car waiting for it to be our turn. Sometimes that never came.
My brother-in-law is a little older than me and we was working at a gas station at the time. One of his jobs was to put a sign on one of the cars in line that read, “Last Car”. Everyone after that car had to leave and find gas elsewhere. He tells me that people were swearing and cursing at him, but there was nothing he could do. Back then, No Gas meant No Gas. Today, I drive 100 miles round trip. Having a gas crisis like that one again would be real bad for everyone.
nasaman Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm

87Pete

You have a valid concern, but it’s not a near-term problem for power companies (except for long range planning purposes) because….

1) MOST plug-in E-REVs will be charged during the night when air conditioning loads (and other electrical demands) in homes & businesses are much lower than during working hours, and

2) Even if most of the world’s automakers started selling plug-in E-REVs in 2011, the number sold in the first 5 years, say, would still be only a tiny fraction of the vehicles in operation

….So the nation’s power companies will experience only a very gradual increase in demand, which will be primarily at night, and they’ll have ample time to respond (by offering to install “demand” type meters that sell electricity at much lower rates at night, etc).
Grizzly Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm

nasaman #89

I agree, and it would be like the effect of Air Conditioning on the grid in the late 40’s and throughout the 50’s etc. Except that AC was run throughout the day. Nonetheless it didn’t happen overnight and there was plenty of time to plan and upgrade.
Van Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:02 pm

The inability to build enough generation capacity to handle the hybrid load is not technical or financial, but political. The Cave people prevent the construction of any and all types of generation. Lets say a hybrid uses 1 Kwh every hour. So 1000 hybrids would add 1 Megawatt.
David Morris Says:
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:37 am

I have an idea to make the Volt quite a bit cheaper. How do I get ahold of someone important that makes the Volt car? Is it General Motors?
Jon P. Says:
February 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

#8GM Toyota or should i say
MichagantoDIEfor

Thanks,

Due to your ridiculos statements lyle has created a new forum, where users will have to be held accountable for their statements. I’m sure most of the die-hard gm-volt posters will register for the new forum, i just hope all the 1st time viewers, or passer byers will register and join the community.
Here’s the link: http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/
Please get over their quickly and start spouting your garbage so lyle can block your user account.
For the rest of us this is a open forum where all you have to do is post, and put a made-up name and email address at the bottom. If you want to be inclusive, or exclusive you’ll need to migrate over to it. Until then all Lyle can do is delete post, and maybe block the ip address.
But remember opposition opinions keep us grounded, and motivated. I actually find it quite refreshing to be reminded that this is something were going to have to fight for. So when the Volt is released i’m going to try to buy the 1st one. Not wait for ver 2.0, or 40k puts it out of my price range. What is 5k in the face of the security of our future? You think this guy is bad, what kind of negative media blitz do you think Big Oil is gonna put out when it becomes a reality that these things are coming out. I can see it know commercials of electric cars on fire. “news reports” about batteries in thermal runaway.
I will be ready, because of guys like him!

Breaking: Chevy Volt A123/Continental Prototype Lithium-ion Battery Pack Delivered!

93 Responses to “Breaking: Chevy Volt A123/Continental Prototype Lithium-ion Battery Pack Delivered!”

Leave a Reply

Recent Posts