GM’s Chief to Toyota’s President on plug-in hybrids: “That’s my speech”
CEO Rick Wagoner took some questions from bloggers today.
I asked Mr. Wagoner for his response to Toyota president Wantanabe’s comment that he looks forward to direct competition with GM in bringing a plug-in hybrid to market by 2010.
His response:
“The comments from Wantanabe-son are fine. Actually, I saw some summary of the stuff he talked about, and I read it and I said, well ‘that’s my speech’ (laughter).
In a way thats OK. That tells us first of all this is a competitive industry with some pretty good players on the other teams, and one of those is a pretty successful competitor and is seeing a lot of the same opportunities we are, maybe executed in different ways. It doesn’t make me nervous, it makes me think we’re on the right track.
Toyota s a very good company, very accomplished in a number of areas, but it is not a foregone conclusion that we and them are running the same race, that they win or we win, we have to play our best game.
There’s a tendency from depending on where one sits in a country like the U.S. with the trends of recent years, to say Toyota’s going to win this. I would invite you to visit China and think whether Toyota’s winning is inevitable where we had the same start 10 years ago and none of us had anything there and now we sell about twice as many cars and trucks there. They’re not doing badly but my point is on a level playing field we’ve shown in a number of new markets around the world whether it’s China or Russia or India, we can compete very well with them.
They are good and I’m sure their interest in this topic will motivate our people to hustle even more which we need to do to try to make these deadlines.”
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Related posts:
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- Toyota Makes a U-Turn on Plug-in Lithium-ion Hybrids
- Look Out, Here Comes Toyota: Plans to Mass Produce Lithium-ion Plug-in Hybrids in 2010
- Toyota Hybrid Manager Says Even His Wife Wouldn’t Plug-in Her Car
- GM and Toyota May be in Talks to Build Priuses Together and is Toyota Really Looking at E-REVs?
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32 Responses to “GM’s Chief to Toyota’s President on plug-in hybrids: “That’s my speech””
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January 15th, 2008 at 11:14 am
This is a good way to view the competition. This may also help moving the Volt into production without delays.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Although someone reported it here yesterday, Mr. Lutz’s comment at the Detroit Auto Show still leapt off the page of the LA Times when I got home last night. Nothing like seeing it in large sub-headline print to rivet your attention. This in the context of extensive discussion of the potential schedule delays of the Volt.
“Asked what he would tell people unhappy that they can’t get their hands on a Volt, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said: ‘That’s too bad. They’ll have to visit a Chevy dealership and buy a Cobalt or a Malibu.’”
More likely down to the Toyota or the Honda dealer to buy a Prius or a Civic Hybrid, IMHO.
How sad.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:32 am
[quote comment="27333"]Although someone reported it here yesterday, Mr. Lutz’s comment at the Detroit Auto Show still leapt off the page of the LA Times when I got home last night. Nothing like seeing it in large sub-headline print to rivet your attention. This in the context of extensive discussion of the potential schedule delays of the Volt.
“Asked what he would tell people unhappy that they can’t get their hands on a Volt, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said: ‘That’s too bad. They’ll have to visit a Chevy dealership and buy a Cobalt or a Malibu.’”
More likely down to the Toyota or the Honda dealer to buy a Prius or a Civic Hybrid, IMHO.
How sad.[/quote]
You are dead on Noel. GM still hasn’t seemed to figure out that there are thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans that are giving the finger to traditional vehicles because they burn oil just as they have the past 75 years. GET A CLUE BOB because I will buy foreign if I can’t buy this car as promised!
January 15th, 2008 at 11:40 am
I hope the critical response from the folks here at GM-Volt lights an even bigger fire under the E-Flex team’s behind
January 15th, 2008 at 11:44 am
If I were Mr. Wagoner, based upon what I have seen posted here recently, I would be doing a lot more worrying about what happens when Chinese cars arrive here in force, and a bit less bragging about my successes in China.
And how about the $2500 Tata?
January 15th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I would not trust the LA Slimes to keep a story straight for 1. But Obviously if GM wants to be in the game, it better have a quick huddle and come up with a new game plan. The battery testing is critical to production and they need to have 5 or 6 batteries in the lab running simultaneous / different tests to determine if they are going to meet all the requirements based on progress thus far. One or two batteries just is not going to cut it. Is the battery lab running 24/7 & staffed 24/7, if not GM is in no hurry to be first to market and if they are not demanding more batteries to expedite parallel testing to meet production goals, their goals are meaningless. I read the same article and I am not sure it was not taken out of context, IE current tense question about people not being able to buy a Volt today being inferred as an answer to a Volt not being ready in 2011. I think GM needs to either debunk the interviewer/ article or admit they are not as dedicated to this car as we thought with such an attitude!
January 15th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Maybe we can all chip in and get Rick an “I’m huge in China” T-shirt.
Next time someone asks, instead of “We’re not losing everywhere”, how about something more like, “I am confident that our solution will be superior. We are taking this technology to the next level, whereas Toyota seems to be modifying an older platform.”
January 15th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Noel,
Precisely. My choice is not between the Volt and the Cobalt. It’s between the Volt and some Nissan, or Honda, or Subaru, or Mazda (I recently noticed the Mazda 5, with 3 rows of seats - a nice alternative to a mini-van).
How likely do y’all think it will be that thieves will want to steal the Volt? Probably depends on how popular it becomes? What are they planning for theft protection, anyone know?
January 15th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
The ONLY reason why I am considering buying an American is so I can drive a Volt. To me, the only other option is a Nissan, Hyundai, or Subaru. So I will wait for the Volt for as long as I can. If it doesn’t come out, I will buy a foreign car. I just don’t know if it will be a Hybrid. I really think the parallel hybrids are the wrong approach to our energy problem. An EREV really seems to be the correct way to go.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
The China market share isn’t the most apt comparison. Many of the Chinese have extreme anomicity towards the Japanese for what they did during WW2.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-02-23-china-japan_x.htm
It is interesting to see that for all GM’s hype Toyota is already “ahead”. Of course until a reasonably priced battery pack is available it doesn’t really mean much.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
The USA is GM’s home turf. To get beat on their own turf either says something great about Toyota, or something bad about GM. I think the latter. Mr Wagoner should be doing a real lot to get back/maint leadership here in the USA. Make better cars that people want to buy. Don’t make excuses. Just do it. People are interested in the Volt. Just do it and do it right.
January 15th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I think the game changer will be the Chinese
EV’s, a reasonable range at a reasonable price.
I think GM believes it can command the world stage with technology rather than performance.
Not likely.
January 15th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
GM’s big, expensive, exotic battery pack strategy confounds me.
Batteries are best suited for energy and ultracapacitors are best suited for power.
The current Volt will begin to recharge its battery at 30% depletion and stop recharging it a 70% to leave room for regen braking.
GM is using only about 40% of the pack’s potential energy capacity because they believe that a “pack mass” strategy will offer a heat sink to maximize pack life.
This appears on the surface to be an expensive and foolish strategy!
Incorporating ultracapacitors would buffer the spikes and allow for a much wider range of charge, say 80%. This system would allow GM to use a 30%-40% smaller pack of “off the shelf” A123 cells and still have plenty of ENERGY for 40 miles and use a more simplistic thermal management system because the POWER would be supplied by the ultracapacitors which would also eliminate heat generating power spikes within the battery pack.
This generator - battery pack - ultracapacitors - electric motor design should lower pack size, weight and cost well in excess of 30% while improving power available for fast acceleration and regen braking.
Any electrical engineers want to chime in on this?
January 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Tim,
It sounds like you are describing the Saturn Vue REEV conversion done by AFS Trinity.
http://www.afstrinity.com/press-release-1-13-08.html
Lyle should corner these people while he’s at the show, for an interview.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
It would be interesting to know if Volvo is showing its C30 HEV
January 15th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Tim-
GM’s oversize strategy has absolutely NOTHING to do with power spikes or “heat sinks”. The deeper you cycle the pack, the harsher it is on the cells PERIOD. While data suggests the A123 cells could probably handle thousands of 80%DOD cycles anyway, it would still be harsher on the cells than a 50% strategy (which is the correct number, not 40% as you claim).
Using ultracaps is useful insofar as it makes up for batteries with limited discharge rates. Even if the Volt’s pack had such discharge issues, it still wouldn’t change the amount of energy it would need for a 40 mile range, and the resulting stress on the pack.
January 15th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Bruce G #15
I’m going to Brussels auto show next tuesday to ask some questions to Volvo people. The Volvo C30 Recharge is there. So if you want answers to particular questions, let me know, I promise I’ll try to get clear answers this time (usually here when you question Volvo about the ReCharge, you do not receive a clear answer, until today.
January 15th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Jean-Charles:
My question for the Volvo people is simple: is this anything more than a concept?
January 15th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Jean-Charles:
Thanks for asking, I second AES and I’m curious which markets they are considering.
January 15th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Rough croud today.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
My next vehicle will be a plug-in… period! I’d like it to be a Volt.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I say, regardless of who wins the EV race, being Toyota or GM…we all win in the long run. With the ‘prize’ of being off of foreign oil.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Jean-Charles,#17
Thank you,
Just about all the cards are on the table in Detroit, except the C30 so far.
All we need is a fortune teller to read them.
I guess the questions are similar to those we ask about the Volt, when is it due for production, is the development running on schedule?
My regards
January 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Volt Mule Delayed Because of Slow Acceleration
“Lutz had hoped to have test vehicles powered by lithium ion batteries ready for the public by early spring, but GM pushed it back to June because of acceleration issues.”
“Lutz didn’t initially care about acceleration on the test cars – until, he said, he learned it would take one full minute to go from 0 to 60 mph.”
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/FREE/45607755/1530/FREE
January 15th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Michigan is a stigma of the USA and bring shame to this country, PERIOD. People in California love Toyota and Honda and nothing else, not even Nissan!
January 16th, 2008 at 12:04 am
The slow acceleration story sounds like bad reporting. If the CPI packs can put out >100kW of power (as Lyle reported in his visit to the battery lab), that’s >134 horsepower. Given that it’s instant torque as well, less than 10 second 0-60 runs should be easy.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:19 am
http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/autoshowblog/index.cfm?blogID=226
“Lutz also said today that GM plans to start road testing the battery in vehicles starting in June. He said last year GM’s plan was to start the testing this spring. Testers will use old Chevrolet Malibus to try out the lithium-ion battery packs, he said.”
“The key issue engineers face now is getting the acceleration up to par. The car’s 0-60 time apparently still leaves much to be desired.”
“‘When it gets to the point where you need a calendar instead of a stopwatch, you know it needs more work,’ he said.”
Ouch, that last quote is harsh! I guess Bob just can’t resist being quotable.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:24 am
If mule acceleration truly is a problem, there are three possible explanation:
-Drivetrain/electric motors are too weak. This is pretty unlikely, given how quick Chevy’s fuel cell equinoxes are, and they’re using the same GM electric motor technology.
-Lithium battery discharge is too low. Again, unlikely given the >100kW results in the lab so far.
-The much more reasonable explanation is that they did some tests with NiMH packs to ensure that the mules are drivable, and NiMH tends to have much lower peak power density than lithium.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Well I said I don’t care about the 0-60 time, but a minute probably won’t work! Pretty tough getting on the freeway in LA.
Proud USA, #25:
What has happened to Michigan is indeed a disgrace. If the US auto industry does not begin to build products so superior that people cannot resist buying them again, it will only get worse.
Yesterday I mentioned Chalmers Johnson and his books. Professor Johnson says that the US has allowed its manufacturing base to be “hollowed out” as a quid pro quo for overseas basing rights for our imperial military.
That all came well before we decided to decimate our economy by throwing away trillions of dollars in Iraq.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
AES #18, Dave B #19, Bruce G #23,
Thank you for your global questions, they are noted,
For those of you who read French, here is the link :
http://www.involve.be/FR/news/article.aspx?G=06494ab7-e4b7-4304-b33a-7ab5995a3fa1
What is interesting is that they say that the C30 ReCharge has an E-range of 100km on a single charge (around 70 miles) and a complete recharge time of only 3 hours.
And if you read Dutch (we are in Belgium), here is the link.
http://www.involve.be/NL/news/article.aspx?G=06494ab7-e4b7-4304-b33a-7ab5995a3fa1
If I get clearer answers than before on Tuesday, stay tuned on this post, I’ll give them to you, and if I do not get clear answers I’ll keep you posted.
Regards
January 19th, 2008 at 6:01 am
[...] My second question and his answer were as follows (first question here): [...]
September 5th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
To ‘Proud USA’ that states “Michigan is a stigma of the USA blah, blah, blah…” dude, take an English class if you’re going to blog on American websites. Also, some people in California recognize that the Big 3 currently have offerings that are as good or better than Toy or Hunda….and spend their money on the US corporation’s product in hopes that there will continue to be an American corporation to GIVE US JOBS! Dork.