AND 
BYD F6DM Plug-in Electric Hybrid
BYD is a Chinese automaker. Here in Detroit, they are displaying the slogan “building your dreams” as opposed to “bring your own drivetrain”. I suppose it probably stands for something else in Chinese.
Anyway I stopped by the booth and spoke to their export manager Mr. Paul Lin.
Paul explained that the car uses a lithium iron phosphate battery (hence why the call it an ‘iron’ battery). This is similar to A123’s technology but Paul advises is different. He was quick to point out that BYD is also a battery-making company, largest in the world. They also make electronic controls, so all things can be done in house.
The F6DM cut-out shown above has a 20 kWh lithium-ion pack capable of 60 miles of range and 120 kW of peak power. After 60 miles the car goes into an HEV mode, where the gas engine acts in parallel with the electric motor, as opposed to only recharging the battery as is the plan for the Volt.
Paul notes that there are already working prototypes running around China, and will produce them there this year. They plan to sell the car in the U.S. too but he admits that could be at least 3 to 5 years away. Delays include regulatory issues and lack of dealerships. The cost is low, and he said the whole battery pack and powertrain together is about $6000 USD.
On an interesting aside, when I showed Henry my GM-Volt.com card, he suggested maybe I’d like to make a website for BYD.
Anyway, I guess this thing could give the Volt a run for it’s money, so long as they don’t use lead paint.
33 Responses to “BYD F6DM Plug-in Electric Hybrid”
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January 14th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
As Mr. Burns on the Simpson’s says: Excellent. If this doesn’t put a fire under GM’s behind, I don’t know what will.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
At $6k for the bulk of the parts, they must be using slave labor.
Either that, or they simply did an economic projection of what LiFePO4 would eventually cost at large scale production, and used that figure as a marketing tool.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Lyle,
Its been a big day,thank you for keeping us informed.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I presume BYD offers a battery to GM, if not, perhaps they should, GM makes it clear they are open to offers.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I like BYD’s can do attitude, they will be starting production while the mules are still out on the road collecting data. LOL
January 14th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Will this be sold in Canada?
January 14th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I like the battery and the range.
The styling looks boring.
5 yrs….maybe 3!
The thing to watch out for on all these vehicles will be degradation in battery performance.
Loss of power and range over time.
January 14th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
[quote comment="27128"]I like BYD’s can do attitude, they will be starting production while the mules are still out on the road collecting data. LOL[/quote]
That’s fine with me. Let them get data from thousands of prototypes in China, then in 3 years sell me a proven car.
January 14th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I don’t like the fact that the ICE is connected to the wheels. I really like the
EREV concept. However 60 miles on a charge is very respectable if it is highway miles and not 25 mph city driving only.
Lyle, if you were to do a BYD website, where will you find the time to do your real job?
Excellent reporting this week, Lyle. Thank you very much for all this information.
January 14th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
For those of us old enough to remember, I had to laugh at picturing Lyle talking to Paul Lynde.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Interesting $6000 for batteries and drive train, including 20KWh of batteries. I wonder if that is the current production cost? Even if that meant $5000 for the battery that would be a very cost effective battery.
However, my attitude is free trade with free people, and since unions are massively restricted in China this car does not meet my criteria no matter how cheap it is.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
>>At $6k for the bulk of the parts, they must be using slave labor.
Huh ? If they are using a asynchronous motor i dont see why it would be more expensive than that. Power electronics and the ACIM motors really dont cost that much, materials and parts-wise.
And the fundamental selling point of LiFEPo4, apart from its inherent safety has always been potential for low cost, due to no expensive bulk materials going in. Being chinese manufacturer, they know all about optimizing costs.
January 14th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
[quote comment="27151"]
However, my attitude is free trade with free people, and since unions are massively restricted in China this car does not meet my criteria no matter how cheap it is.[/quote]
Ditto. Not to mention the safety and reliability issues that would inevitably arise with a Chinese car.
January 14th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
As long as it’s more crashworthy than that other Chinese car the Germans tested… and flunked spectacularly.
The Chinese are good at making cheap things. And they are just that – cheap things.
Now, if they make a car like that, and it gets at least a four star crash rating (all of them)and has a nice warranty, they may be able to sell ‘em here.
I doubt I’d buy one, tho.
January 14th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Welll…
We used to say things like that about the japanese as well…. made great cameras but their cars are made from recycled tin cans.
Probably true but it didnt last long..
January 14th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
… and the same thing was being said about Korean cars (Hyundai and Kia) even more recently …
I’d be curious to see how long the warranty is for, as the Spark EV Zotye (which is also made in China) will be offered with only a two year warranty!
http://www.spark-ev.com/zotye.html
January 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
[quote comment="27138"]The F6DM has a 20 kWh lithium-ion pack capable of 60 miles of range and 120 kW of peak power…there are already working prototypes running around China…”[/quote]
Will someone please tell Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz that the Chinese are making them look like a**holes.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Interesting car…let’s not forget about the Miles Javlon which is due out THIS YEAR, and is about $30,000 with a range of 150 miles all electric. That is a serious contender. GM had better keep moving.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
China is trying to do with EVs exactly what the Japanese did with small cars – become leaders by capturing market share with cheaper products in an emerging segment. BYD is the world’s largest battery maker. They already have the economies of scale. I have no doubt that that really is the price*. What they do not have is car manufacturing expertise. The question is if they can develop it.
It seems unlikely that BYD, with no dealership structure, and a host of other challenges, will be breaking into the US market before the Volt is released, it’ll be a few years anyway, but that probably is not what gives GM the willies about this product. China is a big consumer prize itself – http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8U563V81.htm
“China cruised past Japan in 2006 to snatch the title of the world’s No. 2 auto market, with total sales of 7.2 million vehicles — including trucks and buses — and production of 7.3 million.
China’s domestic passenger car sales continue to be dominated by foreign automakers … General Motors Corp., through its passenger car joint venture, Shanghai General Motors Corp., sold 479,427 vehicles in China in 2007, up 16.9 percent, the company said.”
The prospect of BYD hurting them there sooner seems more likely.
*And just where do you think A123 is going to make their batteries?
January 14th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Low blow with the lead paint reference! LOL
January 14th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Not all iron-based lithium batteries are created equal. I can’t speak for the quality of this battery pack, but one thing’s for sure…there is only one A123, and GM might get their batteries from A123. So this may be a very important advantage for the Volt. But we shall see…this is a promising car in a way.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
I pegged the BYD plug-in as the biggest challenge to GM (and all the other Japanese/Western automakers) when I fist
learned of it – a low purchase price and
relatively cheap batteries (as I recall, the
batteries need replacement at something like 150K miles and cost $2500).
January 14th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
What happened to James. He was always talking about BYD.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:19 am
News of this vehicle is old news… and other reports from the Detroit show indicated it’s likely this vehicle may never make it to the US market… so this is quite a scoop if they have reversed themselves on that.
Several things though… 1st is that from other press I had been led to believe they really didn’t have or plan to have the capacity to produce that many more vehicles than they could sell domestically (in China) since demand there is so high. Even if they exported to the US, how many units/year? GM is planning at least 60,000 Volts/year.
2nd, the price you hear is comparing apples to oranges. In addition the Chinese currency is being artifically kept low against the US$ and not floating on the free market. I believe our government wants to see it float though the Chinese don’t (want to keep flooding our market with cheap imports). If things change that could have a big effect on price.
3rd, also speaking on price, I wouldn’t be surprised if to meet US safety standards it added to the price as well.
Then again, they say we (the US) said years ago that the Japanese would never make inroads into the US.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:57 am
I think the Chinese will introduce a cost effective EV to the US in the next couple of years and it will have an effect out of proportion to the numbers sold.
I dont know what Toyota or GM will do about it.
January 15th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
what about all the buzz about ’splitting’ water to HHO gas as an alternative to electric hybrids?
does the technology (see http://www.preignitioncc.com/nw/index.htm ) work?
If so, why no one is really promoting it?…
January 15th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Sam, wrong forum for discussing, and it’s already been discussed under other threads. No need to give perpertual motion machines any more attention.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Like Rashiid Amul, I don’t like that it is a parallel hybrid. I suppose it’s great for aftermarket companies. Lots of parts to wear out and replace.
I’d prefer pure electric but I’d settle for a serial hybrid a la Volt.
January 16th, 2008 at 7:39 am
More details about it here: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/01/byd-auto-introd.html#more
It seems to be an serial EREV and a parallel hybrid to some degree … “… actually offers three modes of operation: full battery-powered EV mode driving its 75 kW, 400 Nm motor; series-hybrid mode, in which a 50 kW, 1.0-liter engine drives a generator as a range-extender; and parallel hybrid mode, in which the engine and motor both provide propulsive power.
The FD6M starts out in EV mode. At medium speed it will shift to range-extending series hybrid mode, and at high speed it will shift to full parallel mode. In addition to the 100 km of EV range, the HEV modes add another 330 km of range, for a total vehicle range of 430 km (267 miles).”
The design doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
January 16th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
I just ran into another article that gives more info on pricing ….
The price in the Chinese market is estimated to be $20,000 and $30,000 …. which is high end for the Chinese market when the average annual income in China is a small fraction of that price.
The article is at http://tinyurl.com/yq7rsa
October 12th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Interesting how arrogantly some writers on this board belittle the Chinese PHEVs. Sounds like the articles about Japanese cars in the 70s… The problem is that the learning curve seems to be radically faster in China than in Detroit. While Detroit is still comfortable to peddle pickups to Mid Western drivers who need 8 cylinders and 300hp to move their 300 pound bodies, their bottle of Jack Daniels and their rack of shot guns in their trucks, the rest of the world is moving on. If Detroit is not waking up rapidly and makes quickly many many reliable PHEV models like the Volt at competitive prices it will be too late. A sticker “Made with pride in America” wont cut it….. If you think my assessment is wrong, let’s discuss this in 5 years …
Vivifiant, Ohio
December 15th, 2008 at 10:10 am
hey it’s for sale today in China for $22,000.
GM better hope BYD stumbles over US safety requirements.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSSEO16159320081215
An Oregonian already has the rights to import Nissan electrics and wants to import the BYD
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2008/11/kulongoski_lobbies_to_bring_ch.html
December 15th, 2008 at 10:50 am
of course I’m an idiot and “mis-comprehended” shall we say? the role of Mr. Kulongoski in Oregon? but that’s no reflection on the informative article!