Latest Battery Pack Q & A with Denise Gray, GM’s Battery Director

January 10th, 2008 | Posted in: Battery, GM Q and A

Sam Abuelsamid of Autobloggreen went to Las Vegas for CES and had a chance to chat with Denise Gray about the latest developments of the Chevy Volt battery packs.

Key points:

-they’re still confirming the behavior of the first two CPI packs, but they appear to be conforming to predictions.-packs are still evolving and haven’t reached final design, they are taking an iterative approach.

-rumors about pack problems are untrue. They are not rising to too high temperatures even when tested without the cooling system

-She is unable to comment on cold and heat temperature goals and performance in those ranges, it is a work in progress.
-The first Conti/A123 pack will be delivered this month.

-Test mules are built and awaiting their packs. The first packs will be transferred from the bench to the mules this quarter.

To read the whole transcript, go here: (LINK)

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Posted by: Lyle

26 Responses to “Latest Battery Pack Q & A with Denise Gray, GM’s Battery Director”

noel park Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:15 am

Iterative approach? LOL.

Speaking as an engineer, we call it “The Process of Successive Iterations”. To the great unwashed, it is known as “Trial and Error”.

[Reply]
Dave G Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:17 am

I recommend reading the whole transcript from Lyle’s LINK above, or here:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/10/autobloggreen-qanda-the-latest-on-volt-batteries-with-denise-grey/

Excellent interview. Thanks Lyle!

[Reply]
Dave G Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:26 am

[quote comment="25945"] Speaking as an engineer, we call it “The Process of Successive Iterations”. [/quote]

I’ve always heard the term “empirical design”, and I think it makes sense in this case. The more observed data the better. It’s all new stuff.

It’s also very encouraging that their first iterations behave the way they expected. Their schedule doesn’t allow much room for surprises.

[Reply]
Jim G Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am

Mules operating this quarter? - with no hesitation on the dates - That’s great!

[Reply]
noel park Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:45 am

Dave G, #3:

Yeah, I agree. It just struck me funny, is all. I actually did LOL. And I think that it is more properly “The Method of Successive Iterations”. It’s been a long time.

I soon learned that “mules”, development and, in fact, “The Method of Successive Iterations” are all an integral part of creating complex new projects. They don’t just spring fully developed from the drawing board, or now the CAD/CAM hardware, ready to perform in the real world.

Now that I have gotten started, I just have to say that I am very troubled about how this level of buzz is going to be maintained for 3 more years without any product available. As I commented before, we have been shopping for a Chevy car to replace our old Impala SS in the interim until the Volt appears. There is nothing available that takes my wife’s interest anywhere near making something happen. How they expect to survive in the marketplace of $4.00/ gallon gas with the present Aveo/Cobaly offerings totally evades me.

[Reply]
Ethan Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:51 am

[quote comment="25960"]Dave G, #3:

Now that I have gotten started, I just have to say that I am very troubled about how this level of buzz is going to be maintained for 3 more years without any product available. As I commented before, we have been shopping for a Chevy car to replace our old Impala SS in the interim until the Volt appears. There is nothing available that takes my wife’s interest anywhere near making something happen. How they expect to survive in the marketplace of $4.00/ gallon gas with the present Aveo/Cobaly offerings totally evades me.[/quote]

Just wait when you see them driving around detroit… you’ll here the buzz then…

Get a saab or wait for the the hybrid vue.

[Reply]
kent beuchert Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 11:52 am

Here’s some more fallout : ZENN Motors, which has an agreement with EEStor to use their EESU storage devices in their electric cars, saw its stock jump 22% on the news that Lockheed-Martin had also
made an agreement to use their devices.

[Reply]
GXT Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

The wording around the status of the batteries was very telling:
‘The power and energy is confirmed to what they have said, I would get with this iteration, yes. But we are not done to our ultimate goal of our overall power, energy, manufacturability, cold temperature performance yet.’

I have had previous ‘discussions’ on this subject on this site. Contrary to what was previously implied (and apparently stated) by GM and claimed by the poster on this site, this wording shows that the current batteries would not meet the requirements of the production car.

Instead the batteries are living up to their expectations for the first iterations, and we have no idea how that relates to the final requirements except to say that the final requirements are higher.

I should explicitly say that this is not a surprise to me; it is what you would expect. I am just a little bit surprised that someone would expect otherwise.

[Reply]
Brian M Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Off-Topic, but Bob Lutz has a new entry on Fastlane marking the one-year anniversary of the original Volt unveiling. Here’s a quote from it:

“This program remains a top commitment to the company, and we are holding tight to our 2010 deadline.”

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/01/happy_birthday.html#more

[Reply]
AES Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

GXT-

Those are a lot of factors you listed. The essential energy content of the batteries (16kWh) and their innate functionality has never been in question - and that’s what you have seemed to be opaquely disparaging of in your past posts. I think it’s a rather bizarre criticism to assume that the first prototype will be perfect on every level - if anything you’re unintentionally paying Denise a compliment by pointing out her rigorous attention to detail and thoroughness.

Let’s not split hairs, and just take this announcement for it is - an affirmation of CPI’s hard work paying off. Thermal stability is a forte of their research.

This news also reinforces an important point of GM’s, which is that the cooling system is there to extend longevity, not to control red hot laptop batteries.

[Reply]
Dave B Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

Can anyone explain the difference between a mule and a prototype? What are the odds the mule will be the production version?

[Reply]
AES Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

For this particular case, the mules are just a basic test chassis with the battery and drivetrain in place (and maybe the range extender too?).

GM has stated in the past they are going to use old Chevy Malibus as mule chassis, meaning the mules will have no resemblance to the production version other than the technology moving it.

[Reply]
bruce g Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

I believe Volkswagen are introducing common rail diesels in the US this year.
We were doing 60mpg at 60 miles per hour in a trip at Christmas in our Peugeot 406 equivalent,and naturally 600 miles to the tank.
All figures are approximations of course…but it does make GM,s 2008 crop of cars look a bit silly.
GM needs the Volt desperately.

[Reply]
Tom Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

This battery news IS a bit of a disappointment to me. For the duration of the product we’ve heard about how A123 batteries are ALREADY on the market and ALREADY exceed the Volt’s requirements. And we’ve heard Lutz say “the battery people tell me not to worry, it’s no problem at all.”

Expectations have been set so high that I don’t see how anyone would NOT be disappointed by the news that the first packs aren’t living up to them.

[Reply]
Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

[quote comment="26006"]I believe Volkswagen are introducing common rail diesels in the US this year.
We were doing 60mpg at 60 miles per hour in a trip at Christmas in our Peugeot 406 equivalent,and naturally 600 miles to the tank.
All figures are approximations of course…but it does make GM,s 2008 crop of cars look a bit silly.
GM needs the Volt desperately.[/quote]
Bruce g #13 :

I completely agree, I’m doing approximately the same with my two common rail diesel Opels, they are (european) GM cars

[Reply]
AES Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

Tom- Don’t let GXT’s seeds of discontent grow in your brain :). If the packs are barely heating up without so much as a fan to cool them off, then they’re exceeding expectations. My small laptop still gets very hot even with a large heat sink stand and twin fans blowing on it. The CPI pack is bigger than I am, so the fact that it isn’t overheating is downright spectacular.

re:A123, I think we need to reserve judgement until that pack arrives.

[Reply]
john1701a Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

[quote comment="26006"]We were doing 60mpg at 60 miles per hour in a trip at Christmas in our…[/quote]

That’s called “selective sampling”. It’s not constructive and quite misleading.

Provide us with a LIFETIME MPG value instead, the true representation of what to expect based on a large quantity of real-world data.

For example, my data… 90,280 miles divided by 1867.251 gallons is 48.3 MPG.

[Reply]
john1701a Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

As for the interview, the effort is progressing. That’s what truly counts.

It’s a massive undertaking, so naturally there will be some hurdles bigger than others. I don’t look too deep into it as long as the momentum continues.

[Reply]
Tim Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

Solar Cells with 60% Efficiency

Nuclear Engineer Lonnie Johnson, best known for his invention of the super soaker squirt gun, has recently designed a new type of solar energy technology that he says can achieve a conversion efficiency rate of more than 60 percent. Considering that the best solar energy systems today have an efficiency of 30-40 percent, Johnson´s method could cut the cost of solar energy nearly in half.

http://www.physorg.com/news119107136.html

http://www.johnsonems.com/jhtec.html

[Reply]
James Stewart Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

Dave G #3:

I have to tell you as a very old Nash/Chrysler person that I had a 2005 Malibu to go with our 2004 Prius. Unfortunately my grandson totaled it at 13 kmiles, but that car far exceeded the Prius in all respects but the fuel consumption. My wife and I have had nearly 40 new cars (three prius) in our 55 years of marriage and I was amazed at the Malibu. It was a joy to drive. The 2008 is singing a siren song since I may not live long enough to get the Volt of my desires and it is getting rave reviews. However you can orget the pseudo-hybrid version.

JMS

[Reply]
PaulR Says:
January 10th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

I wish the interviewer had asked Denise about her opinions on EEStor.

Assuming the Lockheed Martin interview is to be believed, I think GM should be contacting EEStor ASAP.

[Reply]
Grizzly Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 2:01 am

Lockheed Martin even admits (in so many words) that Eestor doesn’t yet have a product. They’re basically looking to collaborate on promising technology.

Trust me, promising technology won’t power the Volt in 2010.

[Reply]
noel park Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 11:52 am

bruce g, #13:

Amen! Preach on brother.

[Reply]
Jake Says:
January 12th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

Can’t wait for the A123 pack to come in!

[Reply]
Kathy Says:
May 16th, 2008 at 2:53 am

google
google
test
test

[Reply]
judy Says:
August 11th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

real situation in Georgia
real situation in Georgia

[Reply]

Latest Battery Pack Q & A with Denise Gray, GM’s Battery Director

26 Responses to “Latest Battery Pack Q & A with Denise Gray, GM’s Battery Director”

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