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Will GM Use One or Both Battery Pack Teams for the Production Chevy Volt?

December 29th, 2007 | Posted in: Battery, Production

Following on the heels of our last post in which we discussed exclusive right of E-REV cells for GM, there is another issue to discuss.

Again we were told at the time of the battery contract announcements that the winner of the two teams (A123/Conti vs LG/CPi) would be chosen to make the Volt’s cells. We wonder, though, if both teams produce capable and robust packs, could GM then use both varieties among production Volts?

I asked E-Flex team spokesperson Rob Peterson about that.

He tells us the following:

CPi and Conti advanced development contracts were signed in June 07. The contracts included a variety of development activities/deliverables scheduled to take place over a 12 month period. By the end of this period we expect to have enough data to select one, or both, approaches for the production vehicle. This also aligns with the necessary lead times for supplier(s) to prepare facilities and processes to meet the Volt’s production timing.

So it seems the possible then that the production Volts may contain two different packs among them.

Posted by: Lyle

43 Responses to “Will GM Use One or Both Battery Pack Teams for the Production Chevy Volt?”

Dave B Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 10:26 am

I liked the anology of the Intel vs. AMD chip to the battery backs, because it’s a key component to the car. I could car less about what manufacturer makes the door handle, just as most people could care less who makes the hard drive when buying a Dell.

I think the multi battery pack option is a good thing. There a chance we could have higher than 40 mile ranges here? I’d pay more for that option, for say the premium model. Give us the choice in generation 1 if there are multiple packs available and GM will sell more of these. 2 manufacturers selling 2 inherently different packs will lead to different results and a batch of cars people won’t want if the other option is a better buy.

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Estero Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 11:37 am

#1 Dave B said:

“… just as most people could care less who makes the hard drive when buying a Dell.”

That is mostly true today but it hasn’t always been the case. During the 80’s & 90’s, the hard disk manufacturer was very much an issue because of speed, access time, MTBF, etc.

The manufacturer of the Volt battery pack could very well be an issue during the first few years before settling down into a non-issue.

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Estero Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 11:48 am

It would not surprise me the least if the eventual manufacturer of the Volt battery pack one day becomes a Division of GM, perhaps under ACDelco. This would open the door for GM to become supplier of battery packs to other car companies (i.e. Ford, Chrysler, Tesla, etc).

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kent beuchert Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 11:49 am

If the Volt sells like gangbusters, and follow-on vehicles from Saturn and/or Opel are ready, I would guess that you might need both battery types to meet production
requirements. I would guess that GM would like to avoid mixing battery types in the same vehicle, since the two types apparently require two different frame structures.

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Tim Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 12:26 pm

I have a question about solar energy powering a Volt. Let’s say today with current stats on the Volt that we have that I want to charge it entirely on solar energy from solar panels.

What equipment would I need to just be able to power the Volt alone and how much would that run?

Thanks!

To a Greener future!

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noel park Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 12:28 pm

I have to agree with Kent, #4, that I cannot imagine using different battery types, if they would require different frame structures, for the same car.

What is to prevent GM from determining which one best meets the needs, and then contracting with the other company to manufacture it as well, under some sort of licensing or other arrangement?

In WWII, the identical M1 carbine was manufactured by Winchester, GM’s light bulb division, Remington Rand typewriter company, Rockola jukebox company (!), and several other disparate concerns, if memory serves.
Manufacturing is manufacturing, it would appear.

I’m sure this must be the case today, where GM spec parts are made by more than one supplier.

Estero, #4:

Alas, isn’t AC Delco now part of bankrupt Delphi, which GM has spun off, and then struggled to get out from under the historic “legacy costs”?

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butters Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

So I guess GM is still leaving the door open to using both pack designs in the Volt, although, syntactically, the statement suggests that they might be leaning toward selecting one or the other.

I repeat my caution from yesterday that introducing the Volt with two different pack designs and marketing it as if the consumer shouldn’t care which pack they get would become a critical strategic error should it later turn out that there is a substantive difference between the performance, reliability, or longevity of the packs.

If they’re going to ship both pack designs, either they should be incredibly confident that there will be no perceptible difference between them, or there should be enough of a difference between them that they can be directly marketed as options based on their respective specifications.

If the packs are, as they say, close but no cigar, then GM really ought to pick one of them, and my sense of the competitive situation leads me to believe that this is the most likely outcome. I don’t expect that, for example, A123 will surprise us by producing a pack that gets 50 miles to CPi’s 40, enough of a difference to establish a value proposition.

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noel park Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

I just this minute heard Mr. Lutz on a rerun of the NPR “Wait, wait, don’t tell me” show mentioned here earlier in the year.

He really did sound excited about the Volt, didn’t he?

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nasaman Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 4:35 pm

[quote comment="22803"]I just this minute heard Mr. Lutz on a rerun of the NPR “Wait, wait, don’t tell me” show mentioned here earlier in the year.

He really did sound excited about the Volt, didn’t he?[/quote]
Yes, Noel, he sounded VERY excited! And for those who didn’t hear the show, that excitement came right after he had gotten all 3 of NPR’s (ridiculous) multiple-choice questions WRONG (a real downer to most guests) …and his exuberance about the Volt was in reply to their very non-specific invitation to make ANY comment about cars!!! I shouted with glee!!!!!!!

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nasaman Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

[quote comment="22737"]I have a question about solar energy powering a Volt. Let’s say today with current stats on the Volt that we have that I want to charge it entirely on solar energy from solar panels.

What equipment would I need to just be able to power the Volt alone and how much would that run?

Thanks!

To a Greener future![/quote]
Tim #5: Based on my decades of work with solar arrays for spacecraft (and my intense interest in consumer-friendly solar panels that are affordable), I’m sorry to say that, right now, enough panels & peripheral electronics needed to fully recharge a Volt overnight would cost about what the Volt itself costs.

However, if/when Nanosolar Inc (& others) get the cost of commercial panels down to ~1 dollar/watt, I’LL BE THE 1ST IN TOWN TO INSTALL THEM ON MY ROOF TO RECHARGE MY PLUG-IN E-REV AND/OR “TURN MY METER BACKWARDS”!!!

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bruce g Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 4:50 pm

Noel,
Best laugh Ive had for a long time.
Ge,s light bulb division?
lmao

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Mark Bartosik Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 5:24 pm

SE Tim – solar powering your Volt

Rough average for many people 10 200W panels, e.g. 10500 miles on Long Island NY USA.

Here is how to do the calculation….

First you need to know the effective hours per year multiplication factor to convert KW to KWh/year for your area. For Long Island (latitude 40 degrees, NE USA) it is roughly 1100 effective hours. This is a rule of thumb number, because it depends on many other factors, which direction panels face (south is best for northern hemisphere), angle (a few degrees less than your latitude is best as a good rule of thumb). For Long Island under optimum conditions (facing south at 35″ pitch) it is about 1250, for west facing at steep 40″ pitch it is more like 850. If you local utility has a rebate program they may have a “solar calculator” for your area. In southern California there will be more effective hours per year. (effective hours is my term for this number)

For solar please be aware that any shading it death to solar power.

Now look at the energy required for your miles…
I’ll use mine as an example.

8000 miles per year.
That’s 8000/40 full charges == 200 full 8KWh charges or 1600KWh.
I’ve got two roofs suitable for solar panels (both already covered with panels). On my better located roof the factor is about 1100. So the DC power rating is: 1600KWh/1100 == 1.45KW.

Now panels typically come in sizes like 175W or 200W. So that might be 8 x 175W panels. The 175W panels measure about 40″ x 50″.

However, that is below the minimum size for many inverters. For a typical Xantrex (xantrex.com) or SMA (sma-america.com) inverter, the minimum turn on voltage will not be reached. There are “string sizing calculators” on these web sites. If I assumed Kyocera KC175GT panels (popular panel) then I would need 11 panels to reach the minimum turn on voltage in my climate. Or 10 KC200GT 200W panels. For 11 175W panels, this would give me 1925W, (x1100 effective hours) 2.1MWh or enough for 2.1/8*40 = 10500 miles.

This 10500 miles is quite typical.

So you’ve got a detailed answer here, and a short answer of about 10 200W panels or a typical 10000+ miles in Long Island area.

If you need to know more best find a local solar contractor.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 5:38 pm

Cost of a 10 200W panel system INSTALLED.

The cost of installing about 10 200W panels with all other equipment and the labor to fit to your roof, AND get a UL inspection, and manage town permitting, is about $15,000. BEFORE rebates and tax credits.

For Long Island, after rebates and tax credits, that would be only $4,125.

That assumes installer quoting $7.50 per watt for installs. I’ve seen between 7 and $8.5 /w here. My installer works around $7.50/w in rough terms.

It assumes $3.75 per watt rebate. On Jan 1st, it goes down to $3.50 here.

It assumes US federal tax credit of $2000 (ends Dec 31st 2008, but if Democrats win next election it will likely be extended to 2014 and be increased to 30% up to $4000).

It assumes NY State tax credit of 25% up to $5000.

Not only do I have multiple solar systems installed on my house, I’ve helped others get them fitted too. I’ve got the invoices and photos to prove it.

So answer YES VERY AFFORDABLE if you have rebates and tax credits available — e.g. $4,125 for 2KW.

Or about $15,000 without rebates or credits for 2KW.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 5:57 pm

DIY costs of solar….
There are places on the web that will sell you a whole system, panels, inverters, wire, disconnects, the lot. However, it does require quite a bit of knowledge to install.

The panels make up the majority of the cost.

An example price on the web for the 175W panels, that I referred to Kyocera KC175GT are $802.90. So 11 of these would do in my example above. Once you factor in delivery, for 2KW of panels, you are likely paying about $10K BEFORE rebates and tax credits.

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ziv Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

Would it be that much of a savings to charge a bank of old lead acid batteries, (or a couple older secondhand Nimh batteries no longer able to hold a full charge) during the day when I am at work and then charge the Volt from the battery bank in my garage, or would it be cheaper in the long run to simply use my Nanosolar PV array on the roof of my home (one can hope) to run my electricity meter backwards while I am at work, and then charge the Volt off the grid overnight?
I live in Virginia and I am not sure if we get energy cheaper at night but it is only about 9 cents a kilowatt, if memory serves.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

RE Ziv:

Old lead acid batteries – bad bad bad.

There is a federal bill pending that will REQUIRE net metering in all states. This will likely be law by the time the Volt arrives.

If your state has a law requiring net metering just run the meter back a little in the day. Frankly, even if there is no net meter law in your state, as long as you only have an old system analogue spinning disc meter it will either just spin backwards anyway.

Is it legal to spin the meter backwards…
depends on your state, and utility company.

Will the utility notice the meter going backwards a little? Well not as long as your monthly reading still goes forward, and the meter reader does not notice by physically watching it, and it is an analog meter.

Details for solar rebates in US here:
http://www.dsireusa.org/
You may also be able to find out about net metering in your area here. Also call you local utility.

Batteries for solar systems are almost never a good idea if you have a grid connection.

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Firefly Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

First Comment:

Set performance benchmarks for both battery companies. I wouldn’t be so mad at GM if some Volts got 41 miles per charge and others got 48 miles per charge, as long as they guaranteed me the 40 miles I was promised. Besides, when the charge is at the lowest allowable percentage, the engine will kick in and recharge them anyway. So while I cannot decide for my colleagues, for me GM promised me 40 I’ll take 40. Anything else is extra, of which I’ll be very appreciative.

Second Comment:

Concerning the solar array on the roof scenario. I was thinking the same thing, as I am about to buy a house and planned on having a setup installed on my home anyway. It just seems to make sense. If I could charge a Volt from just the array, then whoo-hoo! If I can run the meter backward and charge the Volt at night when energy is cheapest, then whoo-hoo! My goal is to reduce my spending significantly. I may not eliminate it all but if I can knock out about 80-90% then I think I’d be doing good. After all, an annual E85 cost of $150 and a $144 per year utility bill isn’t so bad. Consider this, many of us already pay much more than that per month.

Just make sure that if you are using a solar power array to make sure you get a high enough Kw rating, and to help charge your Volt, it might help to get compact fluorescent bulbs, more efficient appliances and electronics and remember to not leave everything on as much. Also make sure your state does net metering as 9 of the contiguous states do not. I live in Alabama and they do not participate in net metering, whether I have photovoltaics or not.

(another Volt lover)

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Estero Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

#6 Noel said:

“Alas, isn’t AC Delco now part of bankrupt Delphi, which GM has spun off, and then struggled to get out from under the historic “legacy costs”?”

You are right; ACDelco is included in the bankruptcy reorganization. But, does that really doesn’t change anything?

The battery pack is equivalent to the car engine and GM historically makes their own engines. Isn’t it logical that GM will want, at some point, to make their own battery packs?

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Mark Bartosik Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

RE Firefly #17
If you are doing new construction, or find a house that happens to need a new roof, then check out http://www.openenergycorp.com for their Solar Save tiles. Much more expensive than panels, but looks great. My house is one of the listed/example projects.

Also make sure you buy a house with a large south facing roof.

I would like to see building codes require a south facing roof where practical.

RE Nanosolar, that many mention. The whole sale cost of polysilicon panels is about $4, nano solar say that they could sell at $1. But bare in mind the installed cost of panels is $7.50 for installed panels inc inverters etc. So they are talking of reducing the price by $3. But they won’t be available for another 3 years in the USA, and polysilicon will likely be another $1 cheaper by then, so maybe only $2 difference then installed, and Nano Solar need more roof space. So I wouldn’t wait for Nano Solar (indeed I didn’t).

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Dave G Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

ziv #15,

Yeah, I used to think that a home solar system would use batteries, but it turns out that they usually do more harm than good.

Remember that the power companies peak demand is during the middle of the day – especiallly on hot summer days with everyone running air conditioners. Remember rolling blackouts? This is exactly when your solar system output is the highest. So power companies usually love home solar systems because they help offload peak demand.

Batteries also have issues with cost, efficiency, heat, and life span. So unless you live off the grid, it’s better to forget the batteries.

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Dave G Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

Mark Bartosik #19,

Home solar systems I’ve seen run about $5/watt. This includes panels, inverter, cables, etc., but does not include installation. Here’s an example:
http://www.affordable-solar.com/gt-estimator.htm

Since I would install this myself, my final cost would be around $5/watt. If nanosolar could reduce this to around $2/watt, that would be a very significant savings.

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Dave G Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

With regard to using battery packs from 2 different suppliers for the Volt, I think this is a good idea. Not only does it keep the price under control, but with 2 battery companies having a vested interest in GM E-REVs, I think this would accelerate advances in battery technology and production within both companies.

In my experience, competition is almost always a good thing. When companies compete, they make better products that people want more, so the market expands. It’s usually a win-win for both companies that compete.

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john1701a Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 11:37 pm

[quote comment="22832"]as long as they guaranteed me the 40 miles I was promised.[/quote]

You won’t get that.

Volt is not immune to YMMV.

The estimate of 40 was for city driving only, without use of the heater or A/C. Battery capacity may be less in the winter too. Internal load will also reduce distance.

So the “promise” will come many disclaimers… just like all the other estimates.

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OhmExcited Says:
December 29th, 2007 at 11:57 pm

Much like the guaranteed 55 mpg of the Prius? At least the 40 mile range of the Volt is calculated for end of life.

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john1701a Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 12:12 am

[quote comment="22889"]Much like the guaranteed 55 mpg of the Prius?[/quote]

The Prius bashing is getting tiring. EPA estimates were misleading for all vehicles. Now they have been fixed, yet you used the older value anyway.

Why are you fighting a vehicle helping to grow battery production?

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 1:14 am

[quote comment="22888"]The estimate of 40 was for city driving only, without use of the heater or A/C. Battery capacity may be less in the winter too. Internal load will also reduce distance.[/quote]

If you’re interested, there are some good estimates in the forum threads of how much the accessories will lower the 40mpc (miles per charge). Our estimates seem to be around 10% less (36 miles) with high beams, air conditioner on full blast, and other accessories.

To answer the original question, the Volt’s 40mpc seems to be either city or highway, since city gets a boost from regen brakes and such, similar to the Prius.

The Prius is a good car – probably the most efficient city car out there right now, but I think the Volt will be better, at least I hope so. Driving for months with no gas will be great!

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 7:42 am

[quote comment="22889"]… the 40 mile range of the Volt is calculated for end of life.[/quote]

Yes, I heard this as well. 40mpc is targeted to be after the battery has been used 10 years. I think this came from GM in one of Lyle’s posts.

Anyway, since 40mpc is end of life, it stands to reason that the Volt will have significantly more than 40mpc for the first few years…

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 7:55 am

With regard to Volt battery performance in the winter, I really don’t know how this will work. Charging and discharging should keep the battery warm somewhat, but I have no idea how much. They could also add a small electric heater to the liquid cooled battery pack, but I have no idea if CPI or Conti are doing this. I also don’t know how lowering the battery temperature when the car is not charging or discharging will affect holding a charge.

Lyle, could you ask GM if they’ve made any progress answering these questions? Since we both live in the NYC metro area, we have a vested interest in this subject.

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john1701a Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 9:16 am

[quote comment="22938"]40mpc is targeted to be after the battery has been used 10 years.[/quote]

We must include a distance too; otherwise, it could easily be perceived as disingenuous.

There are many that travel more than 15,000 miles per year and expect a vehicle to last longer than the usual amortization life of 150,000 miles.

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

[quote comment="22960"]We must include a distance too; otherwise, it could easily be perceived as disingenuous.[/quote]

For battery life, a more significant metric is the number of charge/discharge cycles. If you plug in every night and drive 40 miles every day, that’s just under 150,000 miles in 10 years. If you drive more than 40 miles, the ICE turns on and the battery is just a buffer. Specifically, the ICE turns on when the battery gets down to 30% state of charge (SOC). Once the ICE turns on, it produces just enough power to keep the battery at 30% SOC, so there’s no significant charging/discharging after that. This would indicate that mileage is not that significant for battery life.

So I think years is a good way to measure it. Other parts of the car will wear with mileage, but battery life doesn’t seem like it will be affected.

That being said, there are those that will plug in their car during the day. This would not only shorten the life of the battery, but also really screw up the grid if E-REVs go mainstream. For this reason, many EV advocates are saying that we shouldn’t even think about plugging in during the day.

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Jeff Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

“That being said, there are those that will plug in their car during the day. This would not only shorten the life of the battery, but also really screw up the grid if E-REVs go mainstream. For this reason, many EV advocates are saying that we shouldn’t even think about plugging in during the day.”

Why would plugging in during the day shorten the life of the battery?? It would only effect the grid during periods of extreme weather, IMO, better to use electricity than gasoline, if possible.

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john1701a Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 12:47 pm

[quote comment="22998"]So I think years is a good way to measure it. Other parts of the car will wear with mileage, but battery life doesn’t seem like it will be affected.[/quote]

Study hybrid history. You’re in for quite a surprise. Like it or not, miles will be required as a measure of lifetime expectation. The number of years or charging cycles is simply not enough.

Volt will exist in a world dominated by non-hybrids for a very long time. You will have no choice but to convey information in terms that can be directly related.

Achieving mainstream sales volume will require some ideals to be set aside until later. Reality is that emphasis of similarities to the traditional will accelerate acceptance. It’s counter-intuitive to the enthusiast, but already well proven by Prius.

Ask yourself what you truly want to promote… a vehicle that stands out or one that will be purchased in quantities so great it will just become a common sight?

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Mark Bartosik Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

RE: Dave G, #21

This might be useful for you…
For about 5KW standard panel install on a nearly flat roof, it took a crew of 4 experienced installers 1 day to do the entire job. It is definitely a minimum 2 person job.

For the materials & delivery they used I could have purchased at about $5.70/w last year. So I paid about $1.80/w for planning, permitting, UL cert, labor.

I agree there is definitely a lot of money to save if you DIY. I would be confident to DIY if I wanted to, but I would HIGHLY recommend anyone considering DIY to go on a course first, or do a lot of reading, and take a close look at an installed system. Also bare in mind if your utility offers rebates that the rebates are constantly going down.

My utility is just cutting rebate from $3.75 to $3.50/w. If materials cost comes down to $3/w you can be sure that the rebates will be minimal. So the end cost won’t change so much, where there are currently rebates.

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

john1701a #32,

All of your posts seem to compare the Volt to hybrid cars like the Prius. The Volt is not a hybrid. It really is an EV with a range extender.

Specifically, hybrid cars use “charge sustaining” batteries, while EVs like the Volt use “charge depleating” battery technologies. Not only is the chemistry quite different, but the amount of energy stored in a charge sustaining battery is 1-2 orders of magnitude less. For more info, look up the past articles gm-volt.com:
1) EnerDel releases Li/Ion hybrid battery
2) Denise Gray addresses congressional hearing
for more details.

For a charge sustaining battery, yes mileage matters. For a charge depleating battery, it’s the number of charge/discharge cycles. I don’t beleive that mileage is a big factor.

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

Jeff #31,

The battery life is a function of the number of charge/discharge cycles. If you plug in both at night and during the day, you’ll probably wear out the battery sooner due to the increased number of charge/discharge cycles.

Also, I can’t find the links at this minute, but Google around and you’ll see many EV advocates talking about the problems of daytime charging. If everyone plugged in during the day, the grid would be toast.

My biggest concern is that this could hurt public perception E-REV sales. If E-REVs just start ramping up market penetration, and the grid starts overloading, many would-be buyers will get a bad perception of E-REVs and EVs. Without mainstream market penetration, the county will continue to use oil. Yes, the individual Volt owner will use less oil, but it’s not about you or me, we need to get most people driving E-REV type cars.

Everyone agrees the currnt gird will support mainstream night time charging with little or no modifications.

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Dave G Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

Mark Bartosik #33,

Yeah, this sounds about right. I would guess 2-3 days with someone to help for at least 1/2 day. Lots of wiring.

And yes, I would read up a lot before even ordering a system.

But right now, I’m waiting for a system that can break even in less than 10 years. Even with rebates, I can’t find that. Might be because I live in the North-East.

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Don Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 6:18 pm

If someone already posted this link and I missed it, my apologies.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/continental-aut.html#more

“Continental Automotive will begin series production of automotive lithium-ion packs in 2008, according to CEO Manfred Wennemer in an interview with auto motor und sport.

It will not be a hundred thousand units a year, but certainly a few thousand…. This is the battery of the future: for both full- and mild-, as well as plug-in hybrid drive and pure electric cars.
—CEO Manfred Wennemer

In addition to being one of the providers to GM for battery packs for the Volt (earlier post), Continental is also a development partner with VW and Daimler. Wennemer declined to name customers for the batteries.”

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john1701a Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

[quote comment="23042"]All of your posts seem to compare the Volt to hybrid cars like the Prius. The Volt is not a hybrid. It really is an EV with a range extender.[/quote]

That’s another red herring. The target market is the same regardless of whatever terminology you prefer.

It’s the fact that the consumer purchase decision will be between traditional and “some new technology” which should be getting attention.

Why do so many have a problem remembering that there are 17,000,000 new vehicles purchased in the US each year?

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Rob Says:
December 30th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

It looks like GM (Saab) and Volvo are cooperating on plug-ins in Sweden using batteries of another supplier:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/12/volvo-and-saab-teaming-up-to-bring-10-plug-in-hybrids-on-the-road/

Saab and Volvo in large plugin project

Saab and Volvo will begin a large scale project on plugin-cars. In the
project the two car manufacturers will test 10 plugin-cars in traffic during
the next year. “We will be testing larger Volvo models working as PHEV, says
Klas Niste at Volvo Cars.

There are a lot of hush hush around this project. But in the corporations
request for subsidies from the energy department, the goal is clear. The
corporations wants to create a swedish market for plugin-hybrids. Or as they
write themselves “Demonstrate how a simple customer-attractive total
solution for plugin-hybrids could look like”.

Included in the project are Vattenfall and battery manufacturer ETC AB in
Nol, Sweden. And what the different corporations are supplying is obvious.
Volvo and Saab will provide ten PHEV cars. Vattenfall will provide technical
solutions for loading the cars in a efficient way. ETC Battery will provide
with their lithium-ion batteries.

The project should run through 2008-2010 and the ten plugin-hybrids will be
in traffic in 2009.
Total budget is 62 million crowns, approx 10 million US$ and the
corporations has been seeking half the budget in subsidies. But to recieve a
50% financing it was demanded that more research and development was
included in the project according to the committee for the vehicle research,
who gave clearence for a third of the total budget in subsidies.

-The next step will be that the four corporations returns with an
application where they assure that they pay for 65 percent of the finances,
then it can proceed to the energydevelopment committee, at the Energy
department, who decides for subsidies surmounting 10 million crowns. I think
a decision will be made in januari-february and if they keep their promise
on 65 percent of the finance they will get an OK, says Gunnar Lindstedt at
Vinnova, secretary in the committee who recommends that the project should
receive 20 million crowns in support.
Both car manufacturers are secret in which models that will be provided with
PHEV functionality. So far the Volvo Cars has only shown the C30 as a PHEV.
But according to Klas Niste at Volvo Cars there will be larger models
included in the project.
But what larger models has Volvo developed with plugin technology?
- No comments, says Klas Niste.

Fact on the Plug-in project
Project description in the application for money from Program counsil for
vehicle research.
“Application is regarding financial support to establish a common
development and demonstration project for plug-in hybrids between SAAB
Automobile, Volvo Car
Corporation, Vattenfall AB and ETC AB. With the collaborations the parts
want to strengthen the possibillities to create a future swedish united,
political and industrial, force for plug-in
hybrids. Plug-in hybrids has a big potential to give a large contribution
for Sweden to reach national and international climate goal and lessen the
dependence on fossil fuel.

Goal.
-To construct and put ten PHEV on the road by year 2009
-To evaluate vehicles and infrastructure under real circumstances
-Demonstrate how a simple customer-attractive total solution for plug-in
hybrids could look like
-Contribute to increased acceptence and insight on the role plug-in hybrids
can have to reach national and international climate goals, increase the
safety for energy supplies
and promote the future of swedish competition in trade and industry.
-Contribute to research and development within the area through
collaborations with for example
SHC. The project is investigating the possibillities for SHC to be able to,
from the data collected in this demonstration project, 1) evaluate batteries
2) analyze driving patterns 3) verify/calibrate simulationprograms for PHEV
and HEV drivelines.

Financing.
…
Written by: Kenneth Samuelsson

(Quote)
noel park Says:
December 31st, 2007 at 12:05 pm

bruce g, #11:

Thanks, I think. Back in those days, GM made everything, including its own automotive light bulbs, right here in the good old USA. It was either Guide division or Inland division, I can’t remember which.

Estero, #18:

Yeah, I was just commenting on the current sad state of Delphi/Delco. I would be thrilled if GM made its own batteries, especially if they did it here in the good old USA. God send that Delco and Delphi shall regain their health and provide jobs and economic development for the communities where their plants have been traditionally located.

Any bets on when the waiting list will pass 8000?

(Quote)
noel park Says:
December 31st, 2007 at 5:04 pm

bruce g, #11:

OK, I looked it up, which I should have done in the first place.

M1 Carbines were manufactured by Winchester, Standard Products, Underwood-Eliot-Fisher, Quality Hardware Machine, National Postal Meter, Rock-Ola, IBM, Irwin-Pedersen, Inland Division of GM, and Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM.

I am the proud owner of a Rock-Ola M1 Carbine, which I never have the time or opportunity to shoot. It is just a cool curio of The War, and the Rock-Ola manufacture speaks to me about the resourcefulness of the American economy when it is really pressed.

I hope that the Volt does the same. I guess two battery manufacturers should be manageable if these guys, most of whom never made a firearm before or since, could make over 6 million carbines, whose parts were all interchangeable, and which shot a lot of bad guys. All of this with 1940s technology.

Of course, now the bad guys are good guys, so I am probably totally un-PC. They are merrily exporting cars to us and driving the late “Big 3″ to the wall and beyond.

Happy New Year to all!

(Quote)
don cazer Says:
July 9th, 2008 at 10:01 am

what is the expected KW load, for the new GM VOLT, on a utility for the overnight charge

(Quote)
Raphael Beck Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 6:48 pm

inxaze9gi7wa8tna

(Quote)

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