Comments on: The Race is on: Toyota Now Admits it is Ramping up Lithium-ion Battery Production http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:47:39 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: AdSense Money Maker http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-25772 AdSense Money Maker Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:39:05 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-25772 <strong>AdSense Money Maker...</strong> Do you know how to make money from AdSense automatically? You don't!? I'll teach you how!... AdSense Money Maker…

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]]> By: Joe http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23281 Joe Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:20:58 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23281 Somebody states that Toyota was so considerate even when gas was $1.00 a gallon, they were building economy cars. That's a dumb statement to make because Toyota then only made small cars. Toyota comes out with the Prius and that immediately makes them the technological leader. How about giving our companies credit for their accomplishment? Oh, by the way, the Japanese cars years ago had quality problems just as bad as we did. Now the quality of our cars are just as good as the best if not better. Look at Toyota quality for the year 2007. It is horrible! Whereas on the other hand, Buicks have reached the same level as the Lexus and yet are much less expensive cars but just as good. Wake up America! Somebody states that Toyota was so considerate even when gas was $1.00 a gallon, they were building economy cars. That’s a dumb statement to make because Toyota then only made small cars. Toyota comes out with the Prius and that immediately makes them the technological leader. How about giving our companies credit for their accomplishment? Oh, by the way, the Japanese cars years ago had quality problems just as bad as we did. Now the quality of our cars are just as good as the best if not better. Look at Toyota quality for the year 2007. It is horrible! Whereas on the other hand, Buicks have reached the same level as the Lexus and yet are much less expensive cars but just as good. Wake up America!

]]> By: nasaman http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23279 nasaman Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:11:07 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23279 [quote comment="23275"] ...Our perception is that their (Toyota) cars are superior to ours and that is far from the truth. I've own Japanese cars and they were the worst cars I ever owned.[/quote] Joe... Did you miss my post #58 above? I've never owned a Toyota or any other Japanese car, but the most recent reliability data on well over a MILLION cars shows the Prius to be an exceptionally reliable car!!! Current data on repairs on 323 models of 2005-2007 cars sold in the US (provided by Consumer Reports subscribers) shows the following: The Toyota Prius has been 80% MORE RELIABLE THAN THE AVERAGE CAR. For this same ‘05-’07 time period, the 4-Cyl Chevy Malibu is 5% BELOW AVERAGE & the Cobalt is 15% BELOW AVERAGE in reliability. (BTW, engine & drivetrain components are weighted higher than cosmetic or other less-critical parts.) Sorry you got lemons from the Japanese, but the numbers just don't lie!!! [quote comment="23275"] …Our perception is that their (Toyota) cars are superior to ours and that is far from the truth. I’ve own Japanese cars and they were the worst cars I ever owned.[/quote]

Joe… Did you miss my post #58 above? I’ve never owned a Toyota or any other Japanese car, but the most recent reliability data on well over a MILLION cars shows the Prius to be an exceptionally reliable car!!! Current data on repairs on 323 models of 2005-2007 cars sold in the US (provided by Consumer Reports subscribers) shows the following:

The Toyota Prius has been 80% MORE RELIABLE THAN THE AVERAGE CAR. For this same ‘05-’07 time period, the 4-Cyl Chevy Malibu is 5% BELOW AVERAGE & the Cobalt is 15% BELOW AVERAGE in reliability. (BTW, engine & drivetrain components are weighted higher than cosmetic or other less-critical parts.)

Sorry you got lemons from the Japanese, but the numbers just don’t lie!!!

]]> By: Joe http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23275 Joe Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:59:27 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23275 Can you believe anything Toyota says? I think they are a bunch of conniving people and they'll copy and steal anything to discredit the American auto industry. Our perception is that their cars are superior to ours and that is far from the truth. I've own Japanese cars and they were the worst cars I ever owned. Can you believe anything Toyota says? I think they are a bunch of conniving people and they’ll copy and steal anything to discredit the American auto industry. Our perception is that their cars are superior to ours and that is far from the truth. I’ve own Japanese cars and they were the worst cars I ever owned.

]]> By: L Hayes http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23126 L Hayes Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:40:42 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23126 C'mon folks, let's get real. Toyota went out on a limb 10--yes, 10 friggin years ago with the Prius and built the first several thousand cars at a huge loss because they had the conviction that this was a car that would be needed--and wanted--by the public. Guess what? They were right. And this was at the same time GM was forcing its dealers--at huge expense--to take on the Hummer line. Tell me who was prescient and who had their heads up their proverbial arses. Believe it or not, I'm rooting for the Volt, if only to keep the pressure on the industry as a whole to step up to the plate and deliver what's needed to wean us off Arab oil. My only point is that Toyota led the way and continues to set the benchmarks here, and you're a horse's ass if you begrudge them for setting the standard here and upping the stakes in offering a state-of-the-art fuel efficient vehicle. Do you really think GM would be even mildly interested in hybrid vehicles if Toyota hadn't shown the way--and proved the market is thirsting for a high quality, high efficiency car? Give Toyota its due for goodness sake. This is a company that has shown the courage of its convictions, even during a time when gas was $1/gallon here in the US. Nuff said. C’mon folks, let’s get real. Toyota went out on a limb 10–yes, 10 friggin years ago with the Prius and built the first several thousand cars at a huge loss because they had the conviction that this was a car that would be needed–and wanted–by the public.

Guess what? They were right. And this was at the same time GM was forcing its dealers–at huge expense–to take on the Hummer line. Tell me who was prescient and who had their heads up their proverbial arses.

Believe it or not, I’m rooting for the Volt, if only to keep the pressure on the industry as a whole to step up to the plate and deliver what’s needed to wean us off Arab oil.

My only point is that Toyota led the way and continues to set the benchmarks here, and you’re a horse’s ass if you begrudge them for setting the standard here and upping the stakes in offering a state-of-the-art fuel efficient vehicle.

Do you really think GM would be even mildly interested in hybrid vehicles if Toyota hadn’t shown the way–and proved the market is thirsting for a high quality, high efficiency car?

Give Toyota its due for goodness sake. This is a company that has shown the courage of its convictions, even during a time when gas was $1/gallon here in the US. Nuff said.

]]> By: nasaman http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23051 nasaman Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:18:44 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23051 [quote comment="23047"]Why do people think Toyota is such a great technological company... quote]Joe, I hesitate to comment about this because it's an extremely emotional subject. However, as a guy who's never owned a Toyota, I feel compelled to answer your question from my viewpoint... Current data on repairs on 323 models of thousands of 2005-2007 cars sold in the US (provided by Consumer Reports subscribers) shows the following: The Toyota Prius has been 80% MORE RELIABLE THAN THE AVERAGE CAR. For this same '05-'07 time period, the 4-Cyl Chevy Malibu is 5% BELOW AVERAGE & the Cobalt is 15% BELOW AVERAGE in reliability. (BTW, engine & drivetrain components are weighted higher than cosmetic or other less-critical parts.) If you're a consumerreports.org member, you can see the data at this link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/types/sedans/reliability-comparison.htm PS: I agree that Toyota has probably NOT been as innovative as GM, but when it comes to quality, GM still lags way behind them based on these numbers from the most recent repair data! [quote comment="23047"]Why do people think Toyota is such a great technological company… quote]Joe, I hesitate to comment about this because it’s an extremely emotional subject. However, as a guy who’s never owned a Toyota, I feel compelled to answer your question from my viewpoint…

Current data on repairs on 323 models of thousands of 2005-2007 cars sold in the US (provided by Consumer Reports subscribers) shows the following:

The Toyota Prius has been 80% MORE RELIABLE THAN THE AVERAGE CAR. For this same ‘05-’07 time period, the 4-Cyl Chevy Malibu is 5% BELOW AVERAGE & the Cobalt is 15% BELOW AVERAGE in reliability. (BTW, engine & drivetrain components are weighted higher than cosmetic or other less-critical parts.)

If you’re a consumerreports.org member, you can see the data at this link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/types/sedans/reliability-comparison.htm

PS: I agree that Toyota has probably NOT been as innovative as GM, but when it comes to quality, GM still lags way behind them based on these numbers from the most recent repair data!

]]> By: Joe http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23047 Joe Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:36:12 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-23047 Why do people think Toyota is such a great technological company. They come out with the Prius and whoops that makes them the technological leaders. GM has contributed many many great inventions, but very few want to give them credit for anything. I know they've made mistakes but so did all the others. Today, GM is making world class cars with top quality but people still scramble to buy Toyotas even with their bad quality. I find it strange why we in the USA can have so much misguided criticism about our own companies. Toyota is worried today because a very powerful competitor has woken up after twenty five years of sleeping. I hope GM buries Toyota because they don't deserve the glory they are getting. Why do people think Toyota is such a great technological company. They come out with the Prius and whoops that makes them the technological leaders. GM has contributed many many great inventions, but very few want to give them credit for anything. I know they’ve made mistakes but so did all the others. Today, GM is making world class cars with top quality but people still scramble to buy Toyotas even with their bad quality. I find it strange why we in the USA can have so much misguided criticism about our own companies. Toyota is worried today because a very powerful competitor has woken up after twenty five years of sleeping. I hope GM buries Toyota because they don’t deserve the glory they are getting.

]]> By: L Hayes http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-22480 L Hayes Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:38:42 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-22480 The Prius bashers here might want to check out Edmunds auto site and read some real world owners reports, which are almost uniformly glowing. Like it or not, most Prius owners absolutely love the car, and I personally know several (very happy) Prius owners getting 50 mpg with the right driving techniques. And with the next generation Prius due out in fall of 2008 and Toyota claiming something like a 30% increase in efficiency, we may well be seeing a $25K car that can get 65 mpg. Meanwhile the Volt will still be, what, two years away from availability? And that 80% hybrid market share that Toyota now owns speaks for itself. In regards to the PHEV lithium battery pack issue, it is absolutely true that Toyota has put out huge mixed signals--and possibly deliberate misinformation--to the press, which may or may not be part of a stealth strategy to hide their real intentions from the competition--who knows? As they say, all is fair in love and war, and Toyota clearly sees this race as one they want to win. To further stir the murky waters here, I have read recent credible reports that Toyota has committed to a substantial purchase of PHET LiFePo battery cells from the only licensed mfgr in Taiwan in 2008. PHET is the original LiFePo formulation patented by the University of Texas and later tweaked by the MIT fellow who started A123. (UT has sued A123 for patent infringement, in fact, and the case is pending.) These cells are proven performers and ideal for PHEV applications as they boast extended cycle life, and my best guess is that Toyota is hedging its bets and will be using these PHET cells at least near term for development purposes in their plug-in hybrids. Buying batteries from an outside source directly contradicts Toyota's in-house supplier philosophy, which leads me to suspect that the PanasonicEV (T's in-house battery supplier--T owns a majority share of the company) lithium is NOT ready for prime time right now, at least not in a PHEV application. Very interesting that Toyota may end up at least temporarily using a battery originally formulated in the USA and supplied by one of A123's biggest potential competitors. Let the games begin! The Prius bashers here might want to check out Edmunds auto site and read some real world owners reports, which are almost uniformly glowing. Like it or not, most Prius owners absolutely love the car, and I personally know several (very happy) Prius owners getting 50 mpg with the right driving techniques.

And with the next generation Prius due out in fall of 2008 and Toyota claiming something like a 30% increase in efficiency, we may well be seeing a $25K car that can get 65 mpg. Meanwhile the Volt will still be, what, two years away from availability? And that 80% hybrid market share that Toyota now owns speaks for itself.

In regards to the PHEV lithium battery pack issue, it is absolutely true that Toyota has put out huge mixed signals–and possibly deliberate misinformation–to the press, which may or may not be part of a stealth strategy to hide their real intentions from the competition–who knows? As they say, all is fair in love and war, and Toyota clearly sees this race as one they want to win.

To further stir the murky waters here, I have read recent credible reports that Toyota has committed to a substantial purchase of PHET LiFePo battery cells from the only licensed mfgr in Taiwan in 2008. PHET is the original LiFePo formulation patented by the University of Texas and later tweaked by the MIT fellow who started A123. (UT has sued A123 for patent infringement, in fact, and the case is pending.) These cells are proven performers and ideal for PHEV applications as they boast extended cycle life, and my best guess is that Toyota is hedging its bets and will be using these PHET cells at least near term for development purposes in their plug-in hybrids.

Buying batteries from an outside source directly contradicts Toyota’s in-house supplier philosophy, which leads me to suspect that the PanasonicEV (T’s in-house battery supplier–T owns a majority share of the company) lithium is NOT ready for prime time right now, at least not in a PHEV application. Very interesting that Toyota may end up at least temporarily using a battery originally formulated in the USA and supplied by one of A123’s biggest potential competitors.

Let the games begin!

]]> By: john1701a http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-22476 john1701a Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:18:29 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-22476 AC = Alternating Current DC = Direct Current HSD motors operate on AC. Geez! AC = Alternating Current

DC = Direct Current

HSD motors operate on AC.

Geez!

]]> By: OhmExcited http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-22380 OhmExcited Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:58:53 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/27/the-race-is-on-toyota-now-admits-it-is-ramping-up-lithium-ion-battery-production/#comment-22380 john1701a, you continue to play semantics even while denying it. The Prius uses a permanent magnet electric motor. Put more simply, the Prius and former Toyota electric vehicle acceleration performance is lousy. Maybe they have something new up their sleeve, but it would be the world's best kept secret. john1701a, you continue to play semantics even while denying it. The Prius uses a permanent magnet electric motor. Put more simply, the Prius and former Toyota electric vehicle acceleration performance is lousy. Maybe they have something new up their sleeve, but it would be the world’s best kept secret.

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