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Tesla Denies Rumors that Whitestar or Darkstar are DOA

December 8th, 2007 | Posted in: Competitors

siry.jpg

Darryl Siry

In our last post, we noted that Jalopnik published “inside information” that Tesla’s upcoming electric sedan, the Whitestar might not make it to production. Of course this information is anonymous and unverified.

GM-Volt.com has been notified by Tesla VP of marketing Darryl Siry, that these rumors are not true.

He said:

It is simply not the case that Whitestar (and clearly darkstar) are doa

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Related posts:

  1. Is Tesla Pulling the Plug on the WhiteStar?
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  4. Is Tesla Running out of Juice?
  5. Tesla Motor’s Chairman Elon Musk on Production Plans

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Posted by: Lyle

19 Responses to “Tesla Denies Rumors that Whitestar or Darkstar are DOA”


  1. Guy Incognito Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    GM has’nt bought Tesla yet?
    What are they waiting for?


  2. Jack Foy Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    I have been a loyal GM buyer my entire life. When I first heard about the Volt, I was excited and thought GM has really thought about what the American driver wanted and has taken action. Then I found out this car of the future is exactly that. When I personally called GM to find out where I can look at this car. The GM person after putting me on hold for 14 minutes came back to tell me that she had no idea where or if the car would be shown again. I asked if they were doing pre-ordering, she said no. I asked when this car was planned to be produced and she said 2011. I asked what was the hold up, was there a technical problem or a design problem that would cause such a delay to market. She was very forth coming and matter of fact stating that GM was focusing on the larger trucks and SUV’s to make them more economically efficient, and that they were pushing out the new Cameo. I was stunned that a GM representative would actually admit that the focus of GM is not on a car that could redefine the auto industry as we know it and cause a ripple effect in our economy that could change everyday lives, but to bring2bigger and more fuel hungry vehicles to the showrooms near you. I went to the Volt Bogs to see if I might be able to get any better info. There were Engineer Techs talking about the fuel cells and the battery life. They were saying they wanted a longer battery life before release and that strides have been made, but nothing was definite. The hold up is the technology. A longer battery charge is what the hold up is. I personally would be happy with the charge life of the existing battery, but I understand my needs are not like most. I drive 6 miles to get to work and very seldom stray from the course other than to make a stop at a store on the way home. I suggest that they go with the batteries that they now have and by the year 2011 they could do a retrofit (upgrade) into the cars that have been sold and have been in use. This household would have two of them in our driveway tomorrow. GM stop farting around with an SUV that even with your tinkering can not get a better MPG rating than 22 to 28 MPG’s and focus on a car that can change the world.


  3. Brian M Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Jack Foy:

    Talk about thread hijacking.

    But to answer your question, a car cannot magically be produced right away, especially by a big corporation like GM. Once any car is approved, it takes 3-4 years to completely design and manufacture the car. This is especially true for the Volt because it is a totally different car than any other GM has ever made.

    Any engineer will tell you that GM’s timetable for the Volt is completely reasonable, and probably accelerated when compared to a normal program.


  4. law Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 4:13 pm

    Jack Foy #2, the truth is the volt is not a production car yet, it’s a future car, so that lady is correct, GM is in need of making trucks and SUVs that are more efficient now while the volt has it’s own team with 600 engineers. But GM has a lot on their plate with putting out hybrids and getting trucks up in MPG.

    We live in a market economy. Only customers can make the volt happen and only customers can make them more serious about the volt by getting that waitlist number to increase. So spread the world about http://www.gm-volt.com

    Take time to go to dealerships and ask them where the volt is, that you won’t be buying a GM car until it comes out.


  5. Grizzly Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    # Guy Incognito Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 2:58 pm Quote

    “GM has’nt bought Tesla yet?
    What are they waiting for?”

    **** ******

    The question is, what would GM get? The reality is that Tesla is 97% Lotus and 3% Tesla. Remember that Lotus doesn’t just make the chasis, they build the entire car, suspension, steering, electronics etc. and even integrate Tesla’s battery pack.

    It seems from this site that the assumption is that Tesla has some dynamite engineers. I don’t know. The founder Eberhard is a silicon valley entrepreneur and not a car man. The company to date has not produced an EV.

    GM on the other hand has 1000’s of engineers with track record, not the least of which are the former EV-1 team.

    So the question is, what would GM gain from buying Tesla?


  6. SteveF Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 7:09 pm

    I agree with Grizzly, it would not make since for GM to buy Tesla. Tesla has started the fire for EV based vehicles again. Even GM has said in past that the market response to Tesla had influence on them creating the Volt prototype. I really like Tesla and really hope they do make it but time will tell. The automotive market is tough to be successful in.


  7. AES Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    I’m normally not a Tesla fan, but I’ll come to their defense here:

    Tesla is probably focusing 100% of its efforts on the Roadster, and ignoring the WhiteStar for now. That makes a lot of sense since improvements in the fundamental technology (electrics, transmission, manufacturing) that come about during the Roadster program will benefit any and all future Tesla cars down the line.

    So it’s probably not DOA, or even on the back burner - it’s just been wrapped up in tin foil and put in the fridge until the stove is fixed.


  8. Dave G Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    Guy Incognito Says:

    “GM has’nt bought Tesla yet?
    What are they waiting for?”

    Tesla is not for sale. Elon Musk has put up the majority of Tesla’s financing from the money he mad when PayPal was sold to eBay. Tesla has no public stock. So even if GM wanted to buy it, they couldn’t.

    Note that Tesla has hired some ex-GM engineers from the EV1 (e.g. Wally Rippel).

    —–

    Grizzly Says:
    “The reality is that Tesla is 97% Lotus and 3% Tesla.”

    Yes, Tesla uses Lotus for the majority of the Roadster production, but Tesla has made many major design changes to the baseline Lotus Elise, so much of the Tesla Roadster is being made by Lotus to Tesla’s designs. Note that Tesla chose Lotus for thier first high-end sports car because Lotus has the best and most efficient production process for low to medium volume cars.

    The Whitestar and Bluestar will be produced in Tesla’s New Mexico production facility, which is starting to ramp up.

    I love the Volt, but don’t discount Tesla.


  9. Grizzly Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    I think it’s imperative that the Roadster succeed before they even consider the White Star. There are so many issues for a car company of this size, and if the Roadster is delayed or has significant reliability/warranty issues, it could be a long road.


  10. Butters Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 11:08 pm

    Does anybody know what problems in particular Tesla’s having producing the Roadster?


  11. Don Says:
    December 8th, 2007 at 11:32 pm

    AES,

    How do you think their battery approach will translate down to the needs of mass appeal cars? My semi-educated guess is poorly and that they’ll eventually need to go with one of the other approaches but I defer to your knowledge.


  12. Mark H. Says:
    December 9th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    Butters,
    “Does anybody know what problems in particular Tesla’s having producing the Roadster?”

    From what I understand it is the transmision they first chose, didn’t work. They are trying to find one that works. What I don’t understand is why they wanted a two speed anyway. They should have built the Electric Motor to have dual ranges with a high speed and low speed windings so they would not need a dual speed tranny.


  13. AES Says:
    December 9th, 2007 at 2:01 am

    [quote comment="18525"]AES,

    How do you think their battery approach will translate down to the needs of mass appeal cars? My semi-educated guess is poorly and that they’ll eventually need to go with one of the other approaches but I defer to your knowledge.[/quote]

    Tesla’s cars are inherently up-market, so I apologize if I implied mass-market in any way.

    But to clarify my earlier statement - any technical problems that they are having now would surely rear their ugly head with any subsequent projects, WhiteStar etc, so it’s best to lick them now.

    For example, WhiteStar and Roadster are different kinds of cars, but there’s going to be a lot of shared DNA between the two - battery software, transmissions, etc.


  14. Dave G Says:
    December 9th, 2007 at 6:27 am

    Butters Says:
    “Does anybody know what problems in particular Tesla’s having producing the Roadster?”

    Transmission reliability.

    ——–

    Mark H. Says:
    “What I don’t understand is why they wanted a two speed anyway.”

    To compete in the $100K sports car market, you have to get from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds. Shifting gears is also fairly burned into the mindset of this market.

    ——-

    AES Says:

    “Tesla’s cars are inherently up-market, …”

    The Bluestar will sell for $30K. The Whitestar will sell for $50K. I don’t think either will have a transmission.


  15. Don Says:
    December 9th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    I would agree with Dave G.’s implication. If a $30K car isn’t fairly mass market then the Volt is DOA!

    Is it even conceivable that they’d succeed in translating their battery approach to that price point?

    There are no additional economies of scale expected in production of standard 18650 Li ion cells (as opposed to those expected as large high power cells ramp up and the fixed costs can be spread over a larger batch of production). The costs of their various safety features (required to offset the potential for thermal runaway with this battery type) are one thing factored into a large complete pack for an extremely high end car, but factored in a smaller battery pack for a car at a $30K price point?

    Don’t get me wrong, I am very grateful to Tesla and I wish them every success. I want those roadsters out there showing everyone that EV ≠ golf cart, that EV = performance instead. I think they can succeed in that higher end niche and that success will make selling EREVs that much easier. And the more EVs and EREVs and PHEVs on market the better. But I am at a loss to see how they could adapt their current approach to a higher volume market. Again, I may be missing something here, which is why I’m asking.


  16. Dave G Says:
    December 9th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Don Says:
    … “But I am at a loss to see how they (Tesla) could adapt their current approach to a higher volume market. Again, I may be missing something here, which is why I’m asking.”

    I would bet that the Bluestar and/or Whitestar will be range intended electric vehicles with much smaller batteries and a small gas/E85 engine, as discussed here:
    http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/07/is-tesla-planning-to-build-an-e-rev-too/

    Also, the Tesla Roadster is intended to be just their first way of making money quick. They are investing the money already made from Roadster pre-sales into a production plant in New Mexico for higher volume cars.

    I’m not saying that Tesla will definitely succeed with high volume cars, but don’t discount them based on their current size and product offering. They are positioned to grow.


  17. mykallb Says:
    December 9th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    Dave,

    The complexities involved in being a participant as in the current “Tesla” / “Lotus” agreement are nothing compared to trying to bring your own manufacturing plants up to scale in an industry where you have very little experience. GM is only “ONE” of the many including Ford, Nissan, Toyota..etc who will eventually be producing these cars.

    Tesla’s chances of survival are “slim” in the best possible light.

    I’m guessing that they’re hoping to sell off once the NM plant is built as a “functioning” EV manufacturer. The only problem is, any of the Big 5 could build (or convert) a BETTER and, probably on an economies of scale , more efficient plant from scratch for less.

    M.

    M.


  18. Dave G Says:
    December 10th, 2007 at 6:53 am

    mykallb Says:
    “I’m guessing that they’re hoping to sell off once the NM plant is built as a “functioning” EV manufacturer.”

    The major investor in Tesla is Elon Musk. He made around $300 million when PayPal was sold to eBay. Now he is building a rocket company to “help us become a space faring civilization” (www.spacex.com). He has also founded SolarCity (www.solarcity.com). You can find out more about him in the “Entrepreneur of the Year” article in Inc. magazine
    http://www.inc.com/magazine/20071201/entrepreneur-of-the-year-elon-musk.html

    So I don’t think he is out to make a quick buck with Tesla. He seems to want to change the world. Whether he succeeds or not is anybody’s guess.


  19. mykallb Says:
    December 11th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    I’m well aware of Mr. Musk. However even Warren Buffet will tell you that the world is full of “misguided” investors who either spread themselves too thin, or bite off more than they can chew.

    I’ll bet that either or both are the case with Musk, and that his rocket company has a better chance than “Tesla”. Sometimes a little market research, and forecasting are a “good” thing.

    I hope that Tesla succeeds but the Volt will start something he never imagined. And again, if the Volt is just another “PHEV” as many on this site suggest, then why is it that the Prius and Insight have seeming NO effect on the prospects of the Roadster or Whitestar?

    M.

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