If the US could ramp up from basically zero to the huge, massive, military equipment output achieved in WWII in 5 years, getting the Volt going by 2010 should be absolutely doable.

Think about it. The B-29, the P-51, and so many other then advanced weapons systems went from a clean sheet of paper to production of thousands, or tens of thousands, within that short time. Atomic bomb? GM played a huge role in that effort.

I have said it a hundred times, the engineering and design talent is clearly there if the mangement provides the political will and the resources.

Yes, I see them now. I must just have missed them in the sheer comprensiveness of the data! So power density of 1.14 to 2.66 kW/kg; energy density range of 56 to 76 Wh/kg. That’s really not so hot, is it? Altair, for example, has power density of 4kW/kg and an energy density of 90Wh/kg and can stand pretty complete discharge cycles. I think that A123 is expected to be around 100Wk/kg and I think about the same as Altair for power.

That leaves EnerDel pretty back of the pack (if I’ve gotten that right), so to speak. The Voltishness performance goes so far as acceleration but much less mpg equivalent given the small ability to go all electric (the most was a 20 mile range). It could be a much more inexpensive however. A well powered sporty small car with good mpg for not much money.

Roger Penske is doing soething very similar with the SMART. A recent article ,in the LA Times business section I believe, outlined their sales strategy.

They are trying to change the model by selling most of the cars as you suggested – taking deposits and building them to order. They believe that this will reduce inventory costs and get away from dealers having to order equipment packages on spec, which leads to cars nobody wants sitting around eating up floorplan costs, and having to be discounted to get rid of them.

My son recently bought a Mini Cooper this way. Their website allowed him to track the production and shipping of the car day by day. It took 6 weeks or so, but it wasn’t really that much of a problem. The fun of tracking it every day helped take some of the curse off the wait.

Of course this could ruin our car buying strategy. We usually wait until the end of the year and bottom fish for the leftovers.

john1701a, #35:

Well I don’t know how they did it but, according to friends of mine who bought Priuses early on, and articles in our local press, the dealers got their money somehow.

I don’t know about anywhere else, but the tax CREDIT in California was over $3500 until a certain number had been sold.

Another big selling point which I failed to credit was the stickers allowing the first few thousand Prius and Civic hybrids to be driven in the carpool lanes with a single occupant. According to the Bluebook, one of those stickers adds about $4000 to the price of a used Prius. I think it’s supposed to sunset in 2011, however.

Anyway, if Toyota can successfully control the dreaded dealer markups, more power to them. Maybe GM can find the backbone to do the same.

If there is only a limited amount of a product, and there is a large demand, some people will be willing to pay more, and that is their right. IMHO, they are stupid, but there are lots of stupid people out there………..

You always have a choice. If you think the price is too high, walk away. When enough people do that, the price will drop. So what if you do not get it on day one?

When I went to buy my Crossfire, it had a $5K Dealer Markup tag on it. I laughed and told the manager at the dealership that when they were serious about selling the car to call me, and I got up to leave. He took the tag off the car, and asked me if that would help to keep me interested. It did.

Emotionally, I really want the Volt. But before I sign the sales agreement, it will have to make sense to my logical side as well!

And if GM does the marketing and manufacturing correctly, there will be a balance of supply and demand, so this becomes a moot point.

Don, I think that this paper – among the other ones on the site of Argonne labs – was the most interesting because the authors modelize a car similar (if not better) in performance to the Volt.

They present a lot of data on the batteries, look at TABLE 10 (page 13) to have a idea of the electricity consumption under different driving conditions.

Noel Park at 33– I agree, dealer mark-up is going to get ugly with this car. I think this has already been rejected by GM, but why not truly REV-olutionize the industry and offer this thing over the internet like Tesla.

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VERY good point. Does anyone remember in the mid 90’s when the internet really took off, GM (and others) had serious plans to sell directly to the consumer via the internet and cut off the middleman?

I don’t know what happened, probably law suits etc. but it does raise a very good issue.

M.