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Your Questions Answered by Top Chevy Volt Executives, Part 6

November 27th, 2007 | Posted in: Engineering, GM Q and A

Q: One of the most common request we get are whether GM will out solar panels on the roof, are you considering that?
A: “As Denise mentioned there are certain technologies we do scans on continually. Before we started in the Volt program and E-Flex project her team had made assessments that battery suppliers were building the technology to handle it. Did they have the business acumen, i.e. integration into the vehicle, etc, etc. So were looking at a lot of pretty cool stuff. Solar panels in particular we’ve got a study team looking at it. But, in all honesty, from a Gen-1 perspective”..” it is very unlikely.”..”You’d hate for the battery to work, and then you have an issue with the solar panels.”..”And those are the kind of things that I think are a key message.”

Q: How is the drivetrain configured, will a clutch mechanism be necessary?
A: (TP) “The internal combustion engine will be directly connected to the generator and the generator will be mechanically connected to the output shaft.”..”There’s two electric motors.”..”The primary traction motor is what drives the wheels all the time.”..”It is constantly engaged.”..”Some of the nuances is appropriate to share when we have hardware”..”Will be able to share more of this with you mid-next year, we’ll do some cutaways and things like that.”

Q: Can the car be configured so that is can be temperature acclimated while it’s plugged in, before you begin to drive it, so as not to waste battery power, are you thinking about that?
A: (Smiles and winks) (DG): “Yes we are thinking about it. ”

Q: What is the top speed of the vehicle?
A: (TP) “100 mph but transient spikes to greater velocities will be permitted to occur.”

Q: Will using the Volt as a back up power generator possible?
A: (TP) “This function is not being designed into the first generation car. V2G won’t be possible, but future versions may very well have these capacities.”

Posted by: Lyle

132 Responses to “Your Questions Answered by Top Chevy Volt Executives, Part 6”

David Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:47 am

Interesting points made.

I’d love to see a “solar cell blanket” that can be drapped over the clear roof of the Volt and a DC charging port. Of course in my town (South Florida) it would have to be bolted down so no one steals it.

One day roadways can have built in microwave power emitters so EVs can charge while driving home.

Who knows… perhaps if you put the chicken in the glove box then you can have it cooked in time for dinner as well.

Maybe a 20 mile extension cord instead.

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Mike756 Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:59 am

“and the generator will be mechanically connected to the output shaft”

What is the “output shaft?”

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Peter Wang Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:12 am

I think a full aerodynamic study should be done! It is very possible that solar panels on the roof will eat up more energy in wind drag than they will generate for the battery. Theft and breakage / malfunction are a problem.

As a bicyclist, I’d be using my Volt when it’s raining or at night, so the solar contribution would be about zero. Why drive when the weather is nice and you can bike???

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Jim I Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:48 am

Mike756 #2:

I don’t think that the original question was answered at all. What I think he said was that the output shaft (drive shaft) of the ICE is connected directly to the generator.

What was being asked was if there was going to be a transmission and clutch needed for the electric motors. That was not answered.

Maybe next time…..

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Dave G Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:58 am

Lyle – thanks for all the answers. This definately helps. Great site!

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David Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:08 am

Mike754 (#2): The “output shaft” is a generic term for any shaft that transfers torque between devices or gear assemblies.

This confuses me in that I expected the generator to directly charge the batteries without any torque linkage. I would be interested in seeing these future cut-aways illustrating the need or use of any output shaft. Perhaps the term was simply misused.

Peter Wang (#3): Miami is way too hot to ride my bike during the day. Besides; I’d rather be drinking a Margarita with my wife, with me feet dipping in the pool, during the daytime.

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Jim I Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:36 am

Oh fine, if that is how we are playing….

It is 39 degrees outside, so my bike is stored away for the winter!!!!!!!!!!!

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:37 am

Many of the things that won’t be offered by the GM in Gen-1 will be available via the aftermarket including v2g. Once GM puts the bones together the market have a cool car with a huge generator, a giant battery and a sophisticated computer to play with. What’s happening with the I-Phone will pale in comparison as to what the customizers will do with the Volt! The market ALWAYS fills a void.

Don’t’ worry, just buy 1 or more!

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Mike756 Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:37 am

David

I hope there is no torque linkage between the generator and batteries. LOL

I think the statement was just redundant.

“The internal combustion engine will be directly connected to the generator” (via the ICE’s output shaft)

“and the generator will be mechanically connected to the output shaft”
(of the ICE)

A more succinct way of saying it might be:

The generator has a direct mechanical connection to the internal combustion engine output shaft.

I would have been surprised if it was otherwise.

I agree with Jim that the question was not answered.

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Scott Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:45 am

“100 mph but transient spikes to greater velocities will be permitted to occur.”

Transient spikes??? LOL!!! Spoken like a true electrical engineer.

Scott

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Scott Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:45 am

“100 mph but transient spikes to greater velocities will be permitted to occur.”

Transient spikes. LOL!!! Spoken like a true electrical engineer.

Scott

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OhmExcited Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:53 am

The concept vehicle didn’t show a clutch. The EV-1 didn’t have a clutch. I can’t see how a clutch would be necessary when you have maximum torque at zero rpm. I would bet big money on no clutch.

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 11:07 am

GM today announced pricing for the 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon Hybrids, the only full-size, fully capable SUVs whose two-wheel-drive (2WD) models offer the same EPA city fuel economy as a conventional four-cylinder midsize car.
Manufacturer’s suggested retail prices for the generously equipped Tahoe Hybrid are $50,490 (2WD) and $53,295 (4WD); and $50,945 (2WD); and $53,755 (4WD) for the Yukon Hybrid. Prices include a $900 destination charge and, based on current adjusted EPA fuel economy calculations and pending IRS approval, buyers could be eligible for a federal tax credit.

A federal tax credit for a Tahoe or Yukon?????

Many people are only buying these monsters for their winter 4×4 capability. A 4×4 Volt @ $30K would take MANY giant SUVs off the road!

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noel park Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 11:55 am

Keep it as simple as possible. I love it. “You’d hate to have the battery work, and then you have an issue with the solar panels.” Amen.

My wife will be driving the first Volt in the family most of the time. She parks in a covered parking structure in the daytime, and the car is garaged at home. Solar panels, while elegant, wouldn’t really help us that much.

When you think of it, it will be such a leap to implement the basic concept that it is just smart to minimize the extra bells and whistles in the beginning.

“Simplicate and add lightness” -Clarence “Kelly” Johnson

“What ain’t there don’t give you no trouble” – Harwood E. Park

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Jim I Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

Noel Park #14:

“When you think of it, it will be such a leap to implement the basic concept that it is just smart to minimize the extra bells and whistles in the beginning.”

Where is the fun in that?????

I want lots of cool stuff to play with!

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noel park Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:12 pm

Jim I (Is that an I?), #15:

The fun is in driving down the highways and byways instead of going down to the dealer to try to get the bugs fixed under warranty.

In my simple minded case, it is also fun to spend the money I saved by not having to pay for stuff I don’t need on my hobbies, or paying down the mortgage.

We have worked on a lot of transitional year Corvettes, 1968 and 1984/85 for a couple of horrible examples. As a result, buying a first year example of any GM car is a giant leap of faith for me, but I will do it in this case. I would just prefer to limit my exposure to problems as much as possible.

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Steven B Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

I would definitely expect it would be available aftermarket, but I’m kind of disappointed in hearing the V2G capability won’t be built into the first edition. In my personal experience a generator would be very useful considering that blackouts where I am tend to either happen in the middle of the winter when it’s freezing or in the middle of the summer when it’s sweltering hot. Considering that it doesn’t happen more than 5 times a year, if at all, it doesn’t justify the expense of a generator, but having V2G would. I guess AC Propulsion will have the upgrade available to the public by then. Oh well.

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law Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:23 pm

The cool stuff should be in the aftermarket, I just want a simple volt. I want it to look good, be efficient and have as little as possible to increase the price.

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Talks Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:23 pm

Lyle,

Where is picture of LG Chem battery pack

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

Nice to have a set of answers.

As I thought, no generator in V1.0, nice to see it under consideration for V2.0 or even V1.1.

Interesting that they spoke of two motors and the “primary motor”. Note that GM have their 2 mode (2 motor) hybrids e.g. Tahoe (post #13). So we could have a 2 mode system in the Volt, real leading edge! If that’s the case the primary motor can be sized to be most efficient at local sub 45 mph range, and the second motor kick in above 45 mph (my guess on figures).

This might even be an advantage over in-wheel-motors (e.g. Volvo system). You need four in-wheel-motors to be able to disengage motors for efficiency. I wouldn’t want to disengage one motor in a two wheel motor system (torque on only one side).

While motors do have a instant torque they do not have a flat efficiency curve. But two motors significantly flattens the efficiency curve as a whole.

When the cut-away pictures are available, one it going up on my wall.

BTW: The Chevy Tahoe hybrid, has just won the “green car of the year” award from Green Car Journal (www.greencar.com)

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szyszek Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

While I understand that solar panels are expensive and will not provide much power, I really, really want to use the Volt as a generator. It would be easy and cheap to add that feature. I live in Florida (hurricanes) and I do not want to spend $2k-$3k for a generator when a perfectly good generator is sitting in my garage. Plus, camping would be great if Volt could be used for that purpose. Imagine, air-conditioned tent! Just plug in a window unit Don’t laugh, you really cannot camp in Florida in the summer. So Volt team, if you are listening: PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRY ON TOP, GIVE US AN OPTION TO MAKE ELECTRICITY WITH THE CAR WHEN WE NEED IT. It would be a huge selling point and the coolest and the most practical feature on the car.

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pstoller78 Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:45 pm

I think a combination of the current proposed volt drive system and in-wheel motors might be a good setup. Have the rear wheels powered by the two-motor setup currently proposed for the volt and two smaller in-wheel motors for the front wheels (or vice versa). This would give the ability for all wheel drive, but the in-wheel motor could undersized as they would only need to provide enough power to provide stability control.

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Mike756 Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:47 pm

“PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRY ON TOP, GIVE US AN OPTION TO MAKE ELECTRICITY WITH THE CAR WHEN WE NEED IT.”

You can do this right now with any car. A good inverter should only cost a few hundred dollars.

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David Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

So now I’m wondering… if I plug my cell phone into the car will it charge my phone’s battery or will it act as a range extender?

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John Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:50 pm

[quote comment="16620"]While I understand that solar panels are expensive and will not provide much power, I really, really want to use the Volt as a generator. It would be easy and cheap to add that feature. I live in Florida (hurricanes) and I do not want to spend $2k-$3k for a generator when a perfectly good generator is sitting in my garage. Plus, camping would be great if Volt could be used for that purpose. Imagine, air-conditioned tent! Just plug in a window unit Don’t laugh, you really cannot camp in Florida in the summer. So Volt team, if you are listening: PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRY ON TOP, GIVE US AN OPTION TO MAKE ELECTRICITY WITH THE CAR WHEN WE NEED IT. It would be a huge selling point and the coolest and the most practical feature on the car.[/quote]
Please be serious people!

A generator–whatever the cost–would be far, far more practical, efficient and user-friendly than any 3000 lb Chevrolet Volt.

It’d be a nice feature with some limited use, but you’d be much better off buying one or two conventional generators if you live in an area so prone.

It’s hilarious to say that you’d rather a $30,000, immovable (for all intents and purposes) generator over a portable one for (allegedly) one tenth-the price.

I mean, it’s all cool and stuff, but let’s not get carried away here…

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

The particular question answered by (I’m assuming TP) where he talks about 2 motors obviously raises more questions than it answers. My initial thought was that one could possibly be dedicated to regen braking and have nothing to do with propelling the vehicle, but I doubt that.

M.

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szyszek Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

Mike756: It is not the same, in a conventional car I have to run a big engine to get power plus the car is not really setup as a generator, Volt has a generator built in.

David: I vote for your comment to be the funniest comment ever on this forum. Good one! :):)

John: You would be right if I needed a generator all the time. I just need it as an emergency backup just in case plus on an occasional trip. I will not buy a $30k car to use as a generator, but I would like my car to have that feature so I can save $3k and NOT buy a generator. I have a generator in my garage now, bought it 2 years ago. I have no idea if it runs. The problem with emergency generators is that they are not used often and because they are not used, they often fail in an emergency. My Volt would be driven daily with a generator ready to go anytime.

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

John #25, the fully charged E-Flex battery pack could power the average house for a week before the generator even comes on. The “range-extender” will automatically start once the battery level dips to 20% to recharge the battery and then it will shut down for another week.

I’ll wager that v2g is the FIRST aftermarket product available. Any home’s electrical panel can be upgraded with a simple switch to isolate it from the grid so that power can come from a plugged in generator. GM knows this and I’m sure that this is why they won’t be offering it in Gen-1. I am curious to see if they will offer 220V single phase “rapid-charging”. If they do, it would be easy to make this flow either way.

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szyszek Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

[quote comment="16632"]John #25, the fully charged E-Flex battery pack could power the average house for a week before the generator even comes on. The “range-extender” will automatically start once the battery level dips to 20% to recharge the battery and then it will shut down for another week.

I’ll wager that v2g is the FIRST aftermarket product available. Any home’s electrical panel can be upgraded with a simple switch to isolate it from the grid so that power can come from a plugged in generator. GM knows this and I’m sure that this is why they won’t be offering it in Gen-1. I am curious to see if they will offer 220V single phase “rapid-charging”. If they do, it would be easy to make this flow either way.[/quote]

Tom, I believe that you are incorrect. The generator is supposed to keep the battery from going below 30%, but it will not charge the battery. So once the batteries are depleted, the generator will kick in and keep on running. It will not shut down for another week.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

szyszek:

I’m absolutely with you on this.
GM, PLEASE PLEAES, with cherries on top, consider a generator as an option package on V1.0 It does not need to be V2G, that’s much more complex, just a simple generator. At least consider a GM approved connection to connection an external third party system (e.g. DC bus connection for a third party inverter).

It would be a huge selling point for many all along east and gulf coast.

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Chris C Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

David,
It will only work as a range extender if its pre-paid.

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Mike756 Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

Tim

“the fully charged E-Flex battery pack could power the average house for a week before the generator even comes on.”

Even if we assumed that the full battery capacity would be used, at 16kwh that would be 2.3 kwh/day. According to the EIA, the average use is about 30kwh/day.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/esr/table5.xls

For the E-Flex battery to power the average house for a week, it would have to be 210kwh.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

RE Mike756 #23:

You can do this to a LIMITED extent now.
Try running a heat pump (in winter in north east) from an inverter from the your current car. A heat pump may draw 2 to 3KW.

Any large load will drain a standard little car battery below cranking level in no time flat (leaving you stuck). So you have to have the engine running 100% of the time which is extremely inefficient, also if you leave the car idle the engine may cut out, since the electrical load does not regulate the engine revs., the engine may also overheat in hot climates.

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

Oh yea of little faith!

Anyone who believes that the aftermarket will not provide a computer hack and hardware to add v2g to the E-Flex Gen-1 is greatly underestimating human ingenuity when motivated by greed. The 20% to 80% (or whatever) regen cycle is all software based and the “upgrade” will most probably come from the same folks who give us aftermarket performance chips.

Don’t worry, be happy!

On a personal note, I too would be much happier if GM offered V2G themselves perhaps as a dealer installed option.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

RE John #25, the fully charged E-Flex battery pack could power the average house for a week before the generator even comes on.

It is more like half a day than a week.

I use about 20KWh per day for my house, and that’s below average. In a power cut situation that can be reduced, but just even a refrigerator uses about 2 to 3KWh per day. The Volt’s battery has 8KWh of energy available before the ICE kicks in.

The great things about using the Volt for a simple generator are:

1) ICE is regulated by engine load.
2) 80 or 90% of what’s needed is already there in the Volt.
3) Volt already has capacity of a very expensive whole house generator, not some little portable generator.

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

Mike756- OK, I’ve been busted! I hate homework so I didn’t do the math.

The point is that the “range-extender” will only come on 2-3x/day instead of running full time like a little 5kw stand by generator. Best of all, it will be quiet and won’t cost $5K for something we only use once in a while! Plus, we’ll need some excuse to burn up the fuel before it goes stale.

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szyszek Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

I smell another poll coming.. or it might be my dirty socks. How about this: what cool feature would you like to have in your Volt? Examples: Use Volt as a generator, have solar panels on the roof (but please include data that shows how much this will help – not much at all), have a small solar panel to keep the car cool in a parking lot etc. Any other ideas? Lyle, could you setup a poll like this? You guys know already where my vote goes

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

szyszek- I want a 5-door hatchback with fold flat rear seats and a removable privacy cover for the trunk so I can load large items and close up the trunk to keep the smaller ones from prying eyes.

(You’ll shoot your eye out, kid! HO, HO, HO)

Of course my 2nd pick would be a 220v/1-phase V2G dealer installed option.

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AES Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

“interesting that they spoke of two motors and the “primary motor”. Note that GM have their 2 mode (2 motor) hybrids e.g. Tahoe (post #13). So we could have a 2 mode system in the Volt, real leading edge! If that’s the case the primary motor can be sized to be most efficient at local sub 45 mph range, and the second motor kick in above 45 mph (my guess on figures).”

I don’t think that’s what they meant at all. One motor is the electrical generator (generators and motors are basically the same in construction), and as they said, it’s directly connected to the output shaft of the gasoline engine, so to as to absorb the maximum amount of energy. It’ll probably be a 50-70hp generator, and also functions as the starter motor for the engine.

The other larger motor is the one that takes the electricity from either the battery or the generator, and turns it into motion.

On the other hand, the deal with GM’s two hybrid system is basically this: there are two 60kW electric motors that can provide power assist to the ICE, and each runs through a different gear ratio in the transmission. That’s why two-mode is an advancement over Toyota’s system because Toy’s provides most of the electric assist benefit at low speeds.

The Volt COULD eventually use a two speed transmission to maximize efficiency at different speeds ( a la the Tesla), but it’s not strictly necessary.

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OhmExcited Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

I wouldn’t touch an aftermarket V2G device with a ten foot pole unless it was guaranteed to generate money for me from the energy company and not measurably reduce the life of the battery in the process.

I don’t think the technology for solar panels built into the car is ready yet. It would have to be thin film, something cheap and bendable. First Solar ones are toxic in fires. Not a good idea. Nanosolar is not operating yet. Ideally employer parking lots would be retrofitted with solar panels on the parking covers for employees to use during the day. That’s probably a pipe dream though aside from a few rich and/or enviro-conscious companies. There would need to be a tax incentive or something to make it profitable.

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Jim I Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

noel park #14:

If you want a base model Volt – no problem

But for some of us – Think “options packages”!!

I want mine to be called “Cool Electronics Pack #1″

David #24:

Really cool post!

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

Here are some new video interviews with Denise Gray and Bob Lutz regarding the Volt and GM mileage in general. New, good info:

http://www.carlist.com/blog/?p=773

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noel park Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

Jim, #41:

Yeah, I actually started to suggest that, but decided that I was arguing against myself. That’s what you-know-who does with the “P word”, right?

I just want them to get the basic car on the street, ASAP, with a minimum of distractions. Anyuthing which lengthens the development time is really dangerous, in my opinion. Anything can happen in 3 years. I will be pleasantly surprised if you-know-who, et al, don’t have something up their sleeves.

I’ll take the Package 1, aka the KISS package. Speaking of Package 1, a local Toyota dealer advertised a 2008 “P word” at $18,988 last weekend – one only at this price. What does anyone think of that?

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rayo Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

A 5 Passenger Hatchback….It’s called the Malibu MAXX.. This is the last year for them..and could be an optional car for the Volt as a 5 passenger. They are using the frame for the 08 Saturn Arora.
Love the Maxx.. had an 04 and now have an 07 that has to last till the Volt comes out. I like a new vehicle every 3-4 years but I am hoping the Volt (with enough options) will be a keeper. As for solar power…. I asuume that the Volt will come with assessory plug in. What is to stop you from buying a small solar panel (5-8 Watt) putting it on the dash/roof/hood and plugging it into the assessory pluging thereby giving the battery a “tricle” charge during the daylight hours. I do this now with my Maxx to keep the battery topped up (live in Northern Canada and baby, right now it is COLD outside with lots of sunlight)

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noel park Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

By the way, every day I am floored by the number of posts by Lyle, and comments by all of you.

Take a look at the GM Fastlane or FYI blogs. They look silly compared to GM-Volt.com.

If Mr. Lutz, et al, compare what is happening here with the “action” on their own corporate blogs, they have to get some sort of a message.

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

rayo, I’ve never seen a Malibu MAXX before. I like it. It’s not all that hard to make a 4-door sedan into a much more practical 5-door hatch back without sacrificing styling. The designers need to maximize every inch of the smaller, more aerodynamic Volt’s interior capacity which is what the original concept is trying to do. Do the Maxx’s rear seats fold flat? Are they 60/40? Thanks.

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Paul Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

While GM is adding the backup generator option, I hope they also add a mower deck option. I want to use the Volt to mow my lawn. I could probably mow my entire yard in less than a minute and blow the wheels off the fancy John Deere owned by my neighbor across the street.

I suppose I could buy a decent mower or generator instead for about $200, but what fun would that be?

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

RE Rayo #44,

you won’t be able to charge the Volt through the 12v accessory socket. Not even trickle charge. I doubt that there will be a DC-to-DC converter to step 12v up to the 300+ volts of the battery pack. To get 300+ volts from solar power you need about 200 sq ft of surface area for a 4″x4″ silicon cell (or about 450 very small cells).

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bruce g Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

Paul,
You could do that with your Cadillac Escalade, why do you need an electric vehicle for that?
GM should fit the escalade with a power take off and it could be used as a tractor.

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David Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

Now that it’s been mentioned…

The prospect of using the Volt for personal home power needs during a power outage sounds like it could have a lot of potential.

Consider this… I live in South Florida and we have experienced A LOT of hurricanes over the past 6 years. I have personally been without power a total of about 6-8 weeks as a result of these storms.

My generator at home cost about $700 and can only power a limited number of items and obviously only while it’s running. The idea of charging my Volt to run some of my essential items at home during a crisis may be a powerful selling point.

At the very least if I cannot use my future Volt for backup power; advances in Li-ion batteries may drive down the cost of other deep cycle batteries that I can use for the home.

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OptimisticMF Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

Rayo,

My wife and I have a Maxx also. It’s ugly, but it does what we want it to do really well and I got 28.5 mpg on a two hour trip this past summer. Not too bad!

BTW, 100 mph limit with transient spikes permitted?!? Huh? Can someone translate this into english? I hope she’s talking about a big red button hooked to a capacitor that allows for a short burst to 125 mph!

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

I love gadgets, being a tech guy and all.
But I really think it is more important
to get the Volt 1.0 out as quickly as possible, with high quality and high dependability. Remember that 60% of new car buyers wouldn’t even consider an American car.
I was in that group two years ago, but no longer. If we are able to tell people the Volt is of high quality, high reliability, and extremely economical on gas, then I would think a lot of those 60% would at least consider it, if not buy it. Keep it simple.

Now having said that, I want it as a generator. I want to plug in all of my electronics for charging. I want the LCD dash, the navigation system, the “smart glass” roof. I want it to provide full statistics on usage, battery life, etc. I also want it to phone home if it thinks there is a serious problem developing. And of course, the mower deck. I have an acre to mow and would love to finish in under a minute

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Tim Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

There may be thermal problems associated with sustained high speeds in excess of 100 mph. Batteries, controllers, motors etc. all heat up and sustained speed are unlike bursts of acceleration in that it will not give these components a change to cool down. This car will be designed to cruise comfortably at 75-80mph.

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Jim G Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:01 pm

I think we need to distinguish “V2G” from “backup generator”. It seems like people are using these interchangeably, but they are different. Even the interview answer is misleading. The question is can it be used as a backup generator, and GM answered that it will not have V2G possibilities. You don’t have to connect the car to the grid to be a backup generator. That simple function is what most of seem to want. GM shouldn’t be opposed to that, especially since it is exactly one of the selling points they planned for the Silverado a few years ago.

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Jim G Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

“There’s two electric motors.”..”The primary traction motor is what drives the wheels all the time.”..”It is constantly engaged.”..”

My understanding of this answer is not that the 2nd motor is the generator. The question was about the drivetrain, and I don’t think they would be worried about the generator technically being a motor. I think the answer implies that the 2nd motor will probably be used to power accessories, as opposed to the “traction” motor.

Regarding a clutch, I can’t see any need for one. The motor speed can be reduced to zero when you don’t want the car to move, and in deceleration, you still want it engaged to act as a generator.

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Jeff M Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:24 pm

#40 (OhmExcited)… you took the words out of my mouth regarding V2G… Unless the battery is cheap enough, has excess recharge cycles life, and you have a utility that has dual metering where you can recharge cheaply at night and feed it back to them at higher daytime rates.

V2G I do believe has a future, but not with the current battery going into the Volt.

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Jeff M Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:33 pm

The question came up above somewhere on whether the generator would stay on or not once it did come on….

I had assumed that the generator will be running at a fixed speed tuned for peak efficiency… so it will be generating most of the time more than is being called for by the drive system, so would also be recharging the batteries at the same time with the excess. And hence on long drives, the generator may come on and off multiple times. Just like my air compressor does when I’m using it. Has GM given any info one way or the other how it would operate?

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:43 pm

RE #54 — exactly Jim!

To provide a generator the Volt needs:

1) The inverter to provide a near or vague sine wave.
2) A 60Hz frequency setting (or 50Hz for export)
3) A 240v voltage setting
4) A means to disconnect the drive motor.
5) A socket to plug into (fused).
6) A switch to enable above.

Item 1, depends on the needs of the drive motor, but it is already likely close enough, if not needs to be designed in.

Items 2 and 3 are trivial in software for the inverter, but are best designed in from the start.

Items 4,5,6 are simple enough to fit as after market options as long as items 1,2,3 have been allowed for in the design stage.

The equivalent generator would likely cost a few thousand dollars. But everything except items 4,5,6 are already in the Volt.

Items 4,5,6 are dirt cheap, and could be sold as an option by GM for a nice mark up, and still give the buy a bargain compared with a stand alone generator.

So come on GM, there’s money to be made here. It would be much cheaper to do than on the Silverado and with a much better profit margin.

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Jim I Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

Paul #47:

If they add the mower deck option, I of course would want the rear hitch assembly with electric power outlet, so I can tow the GM supplied E-VAC (Electric Vacuum All Clippings) attachment. I do not want any mulch on the yard to possibly blow on the 12′ x 17′ GM supplied E-SPA (Electronic Solar Panel Array) and disrupt the charging of my Volt in the driveway………..

OprimisticMF #51:

NEVER PUSH THE BIG RED BUTTON!!!!

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:48 pm

Here’s another reason for built in generator…

The Volt could become the standard FEMA and government vehicle, for yet another reason.

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bruce g Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

That two electric motor comment sounds like the dual mode hybrid that Lutz is quoted as saying isnt approporiate for small cars.
Im missing something here…

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Jeff M Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 6:00 pm

Regarding the Volt as a backup generator, I was also one of the many who had that as their top question (in the ask forum).

Most of the pro-backup generator option comments I would have also made have already been said. A backup generator the size (output capacity) I imagine it could be is larger than a portable standalone generator. Not only that, unlike a regular generator, the Volt can generate backup power quietly… ie. using what’s stored in the battery.

It does lead me to ask some more questions though… what is the proposed output (in kWH) of the Volt’s generator? Is it DC or AC? If AC, then using just the generator in a backup household power configuration, an expensive power inverter may not even be needed, just a cheaper step up or down transformer? (assuming the appropriate hertz)

Obviously there are a couple of draw backs using a vehicle as a backup generator… if you need to go somewhere during a power outage, your house is back in the dark (or buy his/her Chevy Volts ), and for the same reason the Volt wouldn’t work as an automatic backup when it’s not home.

In theory I think the Volt, while connected up, could be better than a generator… it could probably act as a UPS… being able to handle brown outs as well.

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Steven B Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 6:27 pm

I’m really big into V2G. I think that the important thing here for all of us who want it to have some V2G function (for backup power if nothing else) is that we want GM to integrate the concept into the vehicle from the get-go, and not require us to go the some dark street corner and upgrade our vehicle in secret. Like it is for upgrading the Prius to a plug-in. We want it to be able to feed the power back into the grid, if only to our own house. We want the electronics integrated at purchase, and if nothing else, only need to buy a bi-directional plug and a software upgrade, and have those under warranty.

On top of that, I don’t think that all of us would be needing a generator for weeks at a time. Which actually does justify the price of an expensive generator. I live in South Central Texas, and blackouts are rare and usually fixed within a few hours (one day at absolute max) and so I wouldn’t need my car to power the house for long. But never being without electricity when I’m at home would be the best thing ever. I’m interested in allowing V2G services at a profit. But again, I think the real deal is that I, and others, just don’t want to have to have to go to dark steet corner shops to upgrade the Volt in secret. Factory-direct or at the dealership only.

And I think it’s also one of those things that are going to happen anyway, so it may as well be done in the open by the OEM.

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Steven B Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

Oh, and another thing that I think would be really cool. Instead of having all of the performance data on a center console screen, I think it would be better and less distracting to be able to download the data onto an Ipod or Zune and check on it on our PCs. That could give us more detail and be more easily consumable. Just an idea though.

And for those of you who mentioned wanting a 5-door hatchback, GM produced the concept car for that: it’s called the Opel Flextreme. I think it would be cool to see that as a Saturn.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

RE Jeff M post #62

The drive motor is a form of induction motor (AC). This means that there is a built in variable frequency variable voltage inverter in the Volt. Being variable frequency variable voltage, it can already do 240v (or 220, or 110, etc) and it can do 60Hz (or 50Hz).

Thus my comments in post #58.

No step up or down transformer would be needed because the inverter will almost certainly have a smart variable voltage output. The cost of supporting 60Hz 240v or 120v output from the inverter is almost nothing, just a software trigger in the inverter.

The costs are in:
4) A means to disconnect the drive motor.
5) A socket to plug into (fused).
6) A switch to enable above.
and testing of course.

As long as GM designs the inverter with the items in my post #58 in mind, it is an easy after market option to add at a later date, without delaying main production.

For Volt to be a UPS is a little more complex (an extra two wires), it needs to have a means to automatically turn on but only when the house transfer switch says so Standby generators do this by the having two low voltage signal wires from the transfer switch. Again a very simple after market option (effectively a remote control switch for item 6).

again GM: PLEASE PLEASE with cherries on

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

RE Jeff M post #62

Volt’s output generator, will be about 54KW I think.

Now go and price up a 50KW home generator!
That’s about 160A!

The Volt would be just “ticking over” (silently) to power your house.

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rayo Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

The Opel Flextreme would take a lot of engineering to become a reality as compared to the Volt. I read somewhere that they are or are going to be testing some “mules” with the Volt’s power system. These “mules” are on a Malibu chassis (I think) So if it works.. why not use the Maxx chassis as it is a bit longer 6-8 ” and could provide the cargo capacity and 5 passenger seating that some of us need. I use my Maxx for work and can cart a lot of stuff when needed. For the couple that said it is ugly… did you see the grill work on the new 07 Maxx LT ? It’s really nice. First thing I did when I got it was to pop in a K & N Air Filter, Took out the resonnator and muffler and and put in a Maganflo exhaust. Combined City/highway is now up to 32 MPG (Canadian gallon) About a 8-12 % increase in Milage and performance. Now with the Volt…for the amount I travel… I could expect at least 20 MPG more if I ran it for a couple of hundree KMS per Day and Charged over night.. I would be saving at least $ 150 – 175 per month on fuel bills (even if I had to fill the gas tank every other day).

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pm Quote

RE Jeff M post #62

Volt’s output generator, will be about 54KW I think.

Now go and price up a 50KW home generator!
That’s about 160A!

The Volt would be just “ticking over” (silently) to power your house

======

Probably, but depending on the size of your house, and HVAC unit, a mega-ton-er with locked rotor amps can definitely draw on startup.

IIRC my modest 10 seer for AC would require about 16kw to get off the ground, but would drop quite a bit after that. Again…IIRC.

M.

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james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pm

they won’t need to place a large solar panel on the volt. here are two links to nanosolar, these guys actually have a sort of “spray paint” that will eventually be able to be sprayed right onto the car’s roof to provide solar powered electricity.

i’m guessing that in 5+ years, most electric cars will come with this option already in place.

http://www.nanosolar.com/articles.htm

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/flat/bown/2007/index.html

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james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

solar on the roof is doable…

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james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

check out; nanosolar.com

see; popsci.com/popsci/flat/bown/2007/green/item_59.html

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james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

they just paint this stuff on, and instant solar panel, very kool green tech stuff…

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billybob Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:54 pm

A car that is a backup generator for the house. Nice.

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james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:57 pm

can’t wait for the volt!

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

# james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 7:52 pm Quote

they just paint this stuff on, and instant solar panel, very kool green tech stuff…

====

James, yup I’ve got that issue, 20 year subscriber to PS. The Volt will do companies like that no harm .

M.

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james Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:07 pm

74 m…i’m guessing in 5 years, all electric cars will have this, there are other comanies with similar product, but i haven’t followed them yet.

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:24 pm

James, this tech will accelerate like no one’s business. I have a real hard time imagining thousands of Volts on lots that aren’t moving.

I don’t think anyone will be able to anticipate the demand.

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

The volt being used as a generator back up for your house is more complicated than it sounds. Current day solar and wind systems either have separate electrical distribution systems or are tied into the “normal” system via a transfer switch that when the “normal” supply is “off” there is a positive disconnect between the new source voltage and the utility system to protect the Lineman that may be working on the system. For example, in today’s simple solar photovoltaic systems, when the utility system is “off-line” so is the solar array. Also the same for a wind system. Without the 3-position transfer switch we would “back-feed” the utility system possibly causing damage and/or injury to persons or property. The volt would work with a receptacle and those people wanting to use it for that purpose could run a cord and connect their refrigerators to it or a light or radio/TV or whatever. Good idea’s though and a great blog site! Thanks to Lyle.

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OhmExcited Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

Nanosolar’s factory is not built yet.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:59 pm

If you do want to use the volt as a house back-up, you will have to install a disconnect switch and transfer switch. At 200A, 240/120volt, single phase this could easily run up to $5,000 or more depending on where you live in the U.S.A. and if engineering and/or permits are required.

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bruce g Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

The late night shift has arrived, Hi Guys.

Can someone explain to me the two electric motor statement..

.”There’s two electric motors.”..”The primary traction motor is what drives the wheels all the time.”..”It is constantly engaged.”

and why Im confused when I think it is a dual mode hybrid by another name?

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

Wire 80,

I’ve got a Reliance switch that can accept a max of 7500 watts. The switch itself was around $330. I do have a 1400 sq/ft Town home, but in emergency situations, my 3550/5200 Gen has been enough to run the fridge, TV entertainment center and many lights, appliances.

Can’t imagine what a switch that can handle 56KW would cost. I would guess that you could go to Lowe’s or Home Cheapo and get an
entire stand alone, pre-breaker box switch for less.

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

What is most important here is that the transfer switch is “IN-BETWEEN” the source voltage (GM’s Volt) and the Utility system with the common being the house load center or branch circuit breakers. This is important because most residential occupancies have the meter/main and load center all tied into one unit. With this system another panel board with branch circuit breakers is required to provide that safety “separation” between the utility and your new source voltage, (GM’s Volt).

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

As you can tell, the proper installation climbs in cost every time we have to add something in.

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Jeff M Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

Hey Mark, thanks for the info. One question though on how you arrive at 160 amps? 56 kw / 160 amps = 350 volts. At 220 volts wouldn’t it be 56kwh/220 volts = 255 amps? I admit that I’m not a EE so am probably missing something? 56kw seems awefully high when you look at the size of the 45kw generators at home depots site (liquid cooled, and big bucks).

For whole house (non-portable) generators at home depot see http://tinyurl.com/27uqsh

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

Mykallb,

Is your Reliance switch connected to its own load center with circuit breakers? Also 7500watts or VA is enough to run your town home if you do not turn everything on and leave it on AND if you have mostly gas appliances for heating.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

Jeff M,

56kW is really 44.8kVA and should read: P = IE or I = P/E. I (amps) = 44,800/240 volts = 187 amps. We use 240/120 because those are the nationally recognized (nominal) voltages listed in the NEC (National Electrical Code) as written by NFPA.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:12 pm

I couldn’t remember the conversion factor for W to VA (assuming sine wave). I’d assume that wirenutjd has it right.

The size of the transfer switch depends on how it is wired and NEC. So, if you only have one 15A circuit on it, then the switch won’t need a huge rating. 100A automatic transfer switches are a few hundreds (plus installation). Just because Volt is capable of generating 187A at 240V does not mean you need a 200A transfer switch, it depends on the load side not the supply side.

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

# wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:34 pm Quote

Mykallb,

Is your Reliance switch connected to its own load center with circuit breakers? Also 7500watts or VA is enough to run your town home if you do not turn everything on and leave it on AND if you have mostly gas appliances for heating.

=====

Wire,

The reliance is the 6 switch “load side” manual switch that is so popular. It’s this one (with the yellow wire attached, except that I’ve got the one w/ the remote NEMA box on the exterior of the house)

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/

I am a survivor, and have endured many power outages in freezing temps as well as severe heat. No climate control other than fans and space heaters. This is not difficult as I’ve endured 2 weeks in 20-30 F temps w/o a gen.

The thing to remember about an emergency gen is that it’s not “ultimate comfort” but “comfortable survival” .

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

Mark:

W is a value to express DC and VA is the value to express AC, sorry. VA is 80% of the W rating or W is 125% of the VA rating. Your right, the transfer switch only has to be sized for the load, however the source voltage (GM’s Volt) would be required to have that size disconnect installed in the line side of the transfer switch to protect from overloading the smaller transfer switch. I don’t know why anyone would go to all this trouble for a small branch circuit such as 15 amperes at 120 volts when a cord from a receptacle in GM’s Volt would do they same thing.

Mykallb,

It seems you have a correctly installed system, however if the Volt is to be used to “back-feed” that system a disconnect switch with over current protection sized for your Reliance switch would be required.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

RE Nanosolar starting at post #40.

About 18 months, before I covered every last square foot of my available roof space with solar panels and tiles I looked very carefully at the information available about/from Nanosolar.

From the information available then, the printed material still needed protection from the environment (or the nano material would be destroyed) — think glass solar panel. There is significant cost in the panels, and installation costs, and “balance of system”, inverters etc. Also they compared power per sq ft with amorphous silicon which is the lowest power per sq ft of current systems. If you quadruple the installed area you quadruple the cost of the encapsulation system (glass panels) and the cost of installation.

Using traditional silicon cells I am able to power my whole house (inc heating). If I had nano solar materials, it would cost less per watt, but I’d not be able to even approach powering the whole house without covering the roof, yard, garden, and parking area.

I’m not knocking NanoSolar, it is a leap forward, if not revolutionary. It solves major problems. But the last I looked it was not as ideal as some reports implied.

If a car was coated in nano solar printed foil (not paint), it would likely have to have some sort of (expensive) tough clear coating, or the impact of bugs would destroy the nano surface.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

Mykallb,
Thanks for the website link to Reliance Controls; I’ll use this for reference. Wire-nut-jd (John) D.

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:45 pm

# wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:29 pm Quote

Mykallb,

It seems you have a correctly installed system, however if the Volt is to be used to “back-feed” that system a disconnect switch with over current protection sized for your Reliance switch would be required.

=====

Wire,

The question isn’t about me. Next power outage I’m going to fire up the “wheel horse” gen. The question is about those who want to use the Volt as an emergency gen.

Thanks for the input.

M.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:49 pm

Mykallb, me too —
Thanks for the website link to Reliance Controls.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

Mykallb,

I know, that’s why I was “throwing my 2-cents in”. I’m all for green technology and using the Volt for useful purposes, just want others to realize there are certain requirements that need to be addressed.

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Paul Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 11:22 pm

Regarding the confusion from the statement “100 mph but transient spikes to greater velocities will be permitted to occur.”

Here’s my theory…

I think GM is figuring that at 100MPH, you will be using power at about the same rate the generator can supply it. Going faster requires more power, so you will be taking some power from the batteries, even if the generator is running full blast. The Volt computer must limit the duration of these “transient spikes” in speed, otherwise you could hurt the batteries by discharging them too far.

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mykallb Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 11:29 pm

One thing about “manual boxes” is that Reliance makes a big deal about “break before you make”. Never really understood that until I worked with a manual box from a competitor. The “push button” switch was almost indiscernible between being off and on. And hitting it left me with no impression of where it was or what I’d done. 120V + 20A??. Would if the contact hadn’t been made? Would if it was in between, didn’t catch? Short? Fire?

The LONG throw (break before you make) switches that are the hallmark of Reliance are what sold me on their product. NO I do not work for them, just thought I’d share something with this group.

I’ve made many comments about Co’s and being a “cult” product and what I thought it would take for the Volt. Maybe this example will demonstrate what I mean.

I’m pretty sure that amongst sub 10K watt transfer switches the Reliance is pretty much the standard, I’m positive this is not because of its looks.

Good Night to all.

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 11:49 pm

Comment to #97:

They’re talking about disconnecting the primary source (break) before you hook up the secondary source (make). This is important because even at 120 volt 20 amps current can sour to the “fault” level. Fault level is the maximum ampacity the source can deliver; see the cranking amps on a battery for example. A good utility system can deliver thousands and even hundreds of thousands of amperes during an “arc” or a “fault”. 1st break, last make, is another term. This is why the grounding “prong” on your 3-wire plug-in cords is longer than the other two. It will be the first contact made ensuring a good grounding connection and the last contact broken providing safety up to the last second of disconnection. By the way; “fault-current” is just like welding, it will blind you, if not kill you and will completely blow up just about anything in its way.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 11:51 pm

correction to # 98
whoops, 1st make last to break, sorry.

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mykallb Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 12:08 am

Wire,

Am I wrong about “long throw” and the need to “respect the power” of our grid? From a layman’s standpoint I selected Reliance over Connecticut Electric for the reasons I described above. It was my choice, but I doubt that I’m alone, even amongst electricians. Those “push buttons” left me zero confidence WRT 120v @ 20 amps. Enough to ignite the drywall to say the least.

Both might work fine, but I installed this puppy myself, and I made my choice based on common sense.

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 12:32 am

Mykallb,

Try disconnecting the smaller loads first. Turn off each circuit breaker independently and “throw” the main/disconnect. The same for re-connecting make sure everything is “off” and close the transfer switch…then close each breaker independently; this should help with quenching the arc. All of us have to respect the power of the grid because they have very little protection “built-in” to their system. It has to be this way otherwise the grid would be constantly turning off. Reliance looks to a good system, just make sure all components are “UL” listed or listed by a nationally recognized test lab which is 3rd party. If you want to go further have a licensed Electrical Inspector inspect your installation for conformance to the NEC, shouldn’t cost more than 50 bucks or so and they usually can list all (if any) deficiencies so you can make it safe, also helps with insurance companies if there is ever a fire. John

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mykallb Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 12:59 am

Wire,

Thanks, no problems here.

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:00 am

Mykallb,

I just looked through the installation guide of the Reliance model 30216A (7500w) transfer switch with 6 breaker “pole” positions, it sounded the closest to what you described earlier. They are claiming a “UL” listing. The instructions were very good and clear I believe. Are the push buttons you referred to the buttons above the breakers? The installation instructions did say to turn off all breakers and have the generator off when connecting the cord. Then I would turn off the branch circuits in the house panel and then the main last. Then manually move the transfer switch to the generator position. Then start the generator with breakers in the “off” position and after the generator is running then turn them to the “on” position. Then turn on the house main and then the branch breakers one by one. I know, you have to reset all clocks, oh well, it the safest way. I’d rather reset clocks then have to call 911 any day.

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Bill Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:08 am

GM,

Please focus all your effort until Nov 2010 on delivering a very dependable, relatively low cost vehicle that plugs into a conventional outlet at a conventional home.

You are revolutionizing road transportation on the planet.

Please absolutely minimize feature creep and make sure what you deliver will be as free as possible from any problems that could provide critics with any way to badmouth the Volt. Once Release 1.0 is out and running, then begin the inevitable enhancements from a position of strength and customer satisfaction.

Thank you.

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Tom Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:11 am

These performance responses are BS. The EV-1 did 0-60 in 7s and had a top speed of something like 180 when not electronically limited. Sure, it was more aerodynamic but it weighed roughly the same. Why are we now looking at an electric car with 0-60 in 8.5s range and top speed of 100? This nonsense about 0-30 times and instant torque is just to distract people from crap performance.

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mykallb Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:11 am

Wire,

The “push buttons” I referred to were for a competitor’s product. Thanks for your research and effort. Thanks for all you’ve done, but I’m OK.

I believe that most of what you buy should be certified, but for a manual transfer switch I recommend Reliance. My 2 pennies.

M.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:12 am

104 Bill:

I agree. Same from me GM.

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wirenutjd Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:13 am

your welcome mykallb, wirenutjd (John) and thank you too.

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james Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 2:56 am

77 M-not sure if you meant demand for the volt or the nano solar, but, i’m figuring high demand for both. you make some excellent points on here…thanks.

79 ohm- i think, but could be wrong, that nanosolar has a small production facility in california. they also have bought a 600,000 square foot factory in cali, and will be producing stuff there soon, also something similar in germany.

91 mark- in green tech, 9 months is an eternity, i’ve checked nanosolars new stuff on their website, and it looks pretty flexible and strong. and, like i said, i’m figuring that it won’t be on cars for probably three years, maybe as far out as five, and that is a really long time in techville…

96 paul-good point.

104 bill-sounds good.

105 tom-

law, check it out, lol…

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Rob Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 6:52 am

Realistically why in the hell does it matter if the car will go over 100MPH? Honestly now, which one of you drives over 100MPH on a regular basis? I know if the car can do a steady 85 to 90MPH once in a while, I’m fine as I feel most of you will be also.

If I needed a car that could go 0-60 in under 5 seconds and peg out somewhere north of 100MPH for under $30,000, I’d buy a used vette and call it a day. Remember, it’s a daily driver not a daily drag racer. As long as I can’t out run the damn thing on foot, it should be sufficient.

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james Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 7:08 am

rob 110- well put!

god bless the E-Rev Electric Chevy Volt!

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Jim I Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 8:25 am

Bill #104:

Why in the world would you ask GM to lower the bar and bring out some plain Jane POS? So you would be happy with an electric Vega?

Not me.

This car is not going to be released until Nov, 2010. That is the only thing I have heard in all the comments from the GM officials that has not changed. They even call that date “agressive”. So asking for an earlier release date is just not going to happen.

But that still gives them over two years before “design freeze” to make this car special and stand out from the crowd.

As I keep saying over and over, if you want the base price Volt, that is wonderful, and I have no problem with that.

But to make a real splash into the market, the styling has to be unique. Then, in 2012, take the same vehicle and put a station wagon or mini-SUV skin on it.

But I want options packages initially available to me to allow me to add to this car electronic, digital, voice activated, wireless network computer interfaced, EVERYTHING!

The opinion from some of you here is that those options would make the car unreliable. In all the cars I have owned since I bought my first one in 1971, I have never had problems with the electronics. They have always been mechanical in nature. Fuel pump problems, window mechanisms that fail, rough running engine, body rust through, air conditioner compressor problems, exhaust system failures, door adjustments, and squeaks and rattles. But NEVER an electronics problem.

IMHO, the “badmouth” you mention would only happen if they did the car your way. Here would be the headline in Car and Driver: “Ater Five Years, This Is The Best GM Could Do With E-REV?”

I would much rather read: “WOW – SUPERCAR HAS ARRIVED AND IT IS THE E-REV VOLT!!!”

Something to think about, isn’t it?

So to everyone at GM – Please raise that bar to heights you have never even dreamed of before. You have the talent and capability. Make us proud!

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noel park Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 11:23 am

Bill, #104

wirenutjd, #107

Rob, #110

james, #111:

I completely agree with all of you. Well put indeed. “Same from me GM.”

Thank you!

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David Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

Jim I, #112

I love the Volt’s initial design and a “nice” looking car will go a long way towards making this EV a brilliant success. However, all in all I think you would be surprised how many people would be just as thrilled about an electric Vega.

I for one want an EV that works well and is dependable with the performance specifications already discussed for the Volt. If GM could also make one for $15K I would buy it even if it looked like an Egg on wheels.

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Jim I Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 4:53 pm

David #114:

We really do disagree on this issue.

I believe that driving is a total sensory experience, not just getting me back and forth to work. I tend to keep my cars a long time, because I only buy what I really like. And even after several years, when I get into them, I have that same feeling I did the first time.

If this vehicle ends up cheap, plastic, bland, and boring, it will not be fun to drive, and I don’t care if it is saving gas or not, I will hate being in it. If that is where GM goes with this project, I will wait for something else.

And $15K? What can you buy right now in that price point? You want state of the art sophisticated new technology for the cost of a KIA! Sorry, but I don’t get that at all….

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AG Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

These interviews with GM have assured me that the Volt really is going to be the car that will change the world. I’ve very excited and thankful to GM for doing this.

I’ve heard add-ons and options mentioned. I have some ideals since computers, sensors, and cars are merging technologies:

1) standard GPS tracker beacon that can’t be disabled (or the car won’t run)

2) entry and starting system that requires biometric keys

3) if someone’s breath reeks of alcohol, the car won’t start (hmmm, I wonder if biometric scans of retinas were to be used as the security key to start the car can also suss out if someone is drugged up or to ill to safely drive)

4) behavioural sensors that would detect a driver acting like an idiot and wag it’s finger

Thanks GM.

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AG Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

P.S. Could you also design the car to put on my girlfriend’s makeup for her as she drives? It is just flat out scary.

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Tom Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 12:18 am

This website attracts some interesting sets of people who are clearly on display in this comment thread.

Number 1 is the greenies, who are only worried about efficiency and are obsessed with Cd and using expensive NASA space age materials even though it only makes a couple percent difference either way. Who cares if you get 50 MPG or 48? And the idea of solar panels on the car is pretty asinine. People have done the calculations, even at 100% efficiency and charging all day they wouldn’t charge the battery more than a couple percent.

Number 2 is the techies, who need V2G and many driving modes and firewire datalogging and battery swapping and generator functionality and a bunch of other nonsense. Why?? The Volt is just a car with a new drivetrain. If you bought a diesel car you wouldn’t expect all this BS so why do you get so fired up about it with the Volt? Does your current car have all this stuff? Why demand it on some hypothetical new car?

Number 3 are the few levelheaded people who see the Volt as a regular car with a new (hopefully superior) drivetrain.

Maybe some of you can take a minute to step back and consider which category you fall into and how much sense it makes.

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james Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 1:15 am

118 tom-back to name calling “techies”-”your key words-nonsense, firewire, datalogging, Why??”? i take it you’re in #3, and you are level headed, lol.
what is it that you don’t like about the possiblilty of solar panels, that will be much more effecient down the road (looking 3 to 5 years). no one is saying the volt needs this now. but wouldn’t it be great if the tech improves that much in 3 to 5 yrs., so that the solar on the car would be a nice “range extender”? then what is the problem.
besides, the big thing about nanosolar and others like it, is not putting it on the car, it’s about the fact that this stuff is gonna produce solar electricity really cheaply on the roof of every building of anyone who wants “almost free” electricity. and then you can plug the volt in and drive around “for free”. on your own home made fuel. take that OPEC and the dictator in south america, lol.
i’m guessing the people who came up with the volt design Would Not fall into the “level headed” of your three possibilities of how people think.
level headed; “lack of vision/dull minded”.
you might want to “take a step back” yourself there my friend.

115. jim l, how about a standard version with options, or maybe, what the heck? a standard version and an upgraded version?

p.s. 118 tom-you don’t know me, and the others on this board, i’m about as far from a techie as one gets. but at the same time if i see a great tech idea, then i’m for it.

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james Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 1:17 am

118 tom-forgot to ad the key word in your post, that techies are assinine if they think solar on a car is a kool idea. so fulton’s folly really was then i guess, lol.

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james Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 1:22 am

oops, sorry found another 110 tom, “it’s just a bunch of nonsense”, wow…oh, and also sorry, i have lumped your comments about both “greenies” and “techies” together, lol.

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David Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:27 am

Jim I, #115: All I am saying is that GM can also offer a commuter car in addition to the Volt and I would be happy. I do not care so much about the appearence, only that it does what it needs to and without gas. Besides, a Volt or smaller EV would be our second car.

As for $15K I completely expect the Volt to now be a lot less than $30K if the $8-10K battery packs are going to be leased.

A commuter car can and shoult be doable at $15K.

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David Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:34 am

Tom, #118: Wow, are you a professional labeler? The point of blogs is to promote discussions. People have ideas and want to chare them, and it does not mean that person can be classified into a category.

I may like EVs and solar power (though not on the roof of a car) but THAT does not make me a Tree Hugger.

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rayo Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:06 am

Why not just make the Volt with the basic options (and a few toys to make it interesting) Have it do what it is supposed to …electric power for the car with a range of 40 Miles + on a charge with the range extenders.. Let’s forget about it being a house generator, music studio, home on wheels, and drop the solar panels for now. We want a Volt right now… Let GM get on with it and get the Volt on the roads ASAP. Price with or without a battery lease (to make it realistic) is going to be in the $30k + range. When the Volt (version 2) comes out..the base unit will probably be $ 10K less but that’s when you can add all those options everyone is talking about..And we all know that if you buy the base unit… the aftermarket guys will be standing in line with all those options at a better price than would be offered by GM.

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Doug Korthof Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:45 am

Solar modules on the roof make little sense.

We had one conversion with 4 panels, but they only were good for charging the 12v battery. It’s for show.

One panel, for example 170W Kyocera (that’s nominal, actual about 150W), would, if positioned in the BEST angle, produce (at the lattitude of L.A., rule of thumb is) 5 times 150W or about 750 Wh per day.

Of course, actual production would be much less, because it would not be in the best position, if mounted on a CAR. 750 Wh is the MOST it could do.

1000 Wh (1 kWh) is enough to take an EV from 3 to 6 miles, depending on aerodynamic configuration and speed. So you would produce NO MORE than enough electric to go two (2) miles. On most days, if the angle is about 45 degrees, you would be lucky to make enough electric to do one mile.

Now for the cost. On a car, you don’t get the rebate, because it’s not connected to the grid. You need a charge-controller and transformer, and the cost of the panel is about $750. So for an additional $1000 you can go at most 2 extra miles per day.

But that’s not the biggest problem; the EV and the grid compete for energy during the day.

If you look at the daily electric usage curve, there is a big peak in the daytime, when the electric is worth 4 times as much under some tariffs. So your solar panel would be better used ON YOUR ROOF to pump peak power into the grid; it can be positioned firmly in the best direction, can get the rebate, and can generate on average .75 kWh per day…but during peak, you get “paid” credits for 3 kWh!

That kind of leverage means if you charge the EV “off-peak”, slowly at night, your investment goes down to $500 (rebate) and the ONE panel produces enough to go up to 10 miles.

In addition, there’s the damage issue: panels are fragile, and don’t do well with lots of vibration … or crashes.

For the same reason, so-called “VTG” (plugging the car in during the day, when the utility sucks energy out of the car battery) make NO SENSE WHATEVER, because the car needs the energy at the same time the grid needs it (in the day) … and besides, it shortens battery life.

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Steven B Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

I agree completely about it being absolutely impractical to integrate PV into the Volt. But I disagree just as strongly about the rejection of V2G, and I sincerely suggest you read the research available on the subject at the University of Delaware website. You profit from using V2G. That’s net profit, and you’ll be able to get charged during the day during most of the year. V2G is not a dumb system, and you’re not going to provide grid services without getting paid for it. In fact the results of the research suggest that a person can net up to $2000-$3000 a year. That may not be reflective of the potential reality, but then again it may be. But the point is that V2G is not a dumb system or a scam by utilities. It is a way of grid optimization and if integrated into EV research and development ahead of time, it will save a lot of money for a lot of people by keeping from needing to get aftermarket upgrades. And the basic concept of bi-directional power flow from the Volt allowing it to serve as a backup generator is not an out-there idea. It is fully practical and a cost-effective solution to the rare problem (for most people anyway) of blackouts which normally happen in the worst conditions, either hot weather or cold weather. The Volt is more than just a car. It a tiny power plant on wheels. And it’s a car too. It does not take a lot of imagination to see a plug-in hybrid or range-extending electric to see that.

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Tom Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 12:12 pm

V2G may make you money (in a sense) but you’ll either be wearing out your battery or inefficiently burning expensive gas to do so. I’m sure that if you do a cost/benefit analysis you actually come out losing. Also, there are practical considerations, like the fact that running a car engine in an enclosed space may cause inadvertent death or explosions.

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Steven B Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

V2G will not be done without a NET PROFIT. But it will be done. And I’m sure that the engine will not be operable if a sensor detects carbon monoxide levels outside of the norm. But in regards to your last point Tom, I just have to ask What?!? I don’t even know where to begin with that, or what you even mean. You make it sound like a car engine’s a bomb! I literally have no idea what you mean.

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noel park Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

rayo, #124:

Right!

Same for the V2G as far as I’m concerned.

Let’s just get the basic concept on the road, and worry about all this fancy stuff later.

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james Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

doug k. 125, excellent points. and i am more for solar on the roof, than on the car.
however, this new “paint it on” solar tech stuff looks like it could hold up on a cars roof. i don’t know the watts/kilo watts etc of this stuff, just hope that sooner or later it may be effecient enough to work on a car roof.
in the mean time, an e-car with a house that has a solar roof looks good to me.

death to oil and oil companies, god bless the chevy volt, god bless nanosolar, and God Bless the USA!

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AG Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

I think solar is a great ideal too. I won’t pretend to know enough about physics and chemistry to know if 80% efficient conversion panels are even in the realm of possibilities.

So while GM of course isn’t going to let themselves be distracted by all our speculation (& this is the only blog I’ve ever even continued to read just because of the hopeful and polite dreaming); I am sure they, after they have released the basic Volt, they will want to design their cars so that they can earn as close to 100% of the cost of operating a vehicle as possible. To do that they’ll need to maximize efficiency, safety, and comfort. The creativity that has been lacking for so long in US manufacturing is on a comeback and it’s being let by GM. The days of actuaries calculating the legal costs of letting defects through to the consumer in Chinese style mass assembly lines (albeit, extremely well paid ones) are over.

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Lynn Dorsett Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:44 am

I’m trying to figure out what the impact of charging a Volt will be on my residential solar system. Your site says that it will take 6.5 hours to charge from a 110v outlet. What is the electrical draw per hour during that time? Thanks.

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Your Questions Answered by Top Chevy Volt Executives, Part 6

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